"Who this thread is for: Anyone and everyone who wants to argue about PFAL. Boxing gloves are NOT optional. But keep your fight HERE, on THIS thread."
My position on PFAL is that it is NOT very good in helping people understand the Bible [and in my opinion does very little to encourage a relationship with God] – both from the content and philosophical viewpoint it fosters. I think there's a lot of truth and error in PFAL – and don't see it as a good Bible study aid – but more as Final Exam on Critical Thinking 101…Come to think of it – I do like those brain-teasers where you have two seemingly identical pictures side by side and you're challenged to find the differences between the two…
I think Raf, WordWolf, JBarrax and others have done a great job of analyzing PFAL content – my opinion here focuses on what I think are some of the ideasPFAL conveys to students – which slowly evolve into their rule for faith and practice. My post is more of a rant – so sorry if I bore you with the "internal affairs" of my head. Is that legit on this thread? I guess so – I'm mentioning the effect PFAL personally had on me. I'm not blaming PFAL for that – I'm saying this is how my brain processed it. And really this post doesn't have a whole lot of substance – it's just some things I wonder about – so they may be off the wall and tripped-out…..Okay – just flat out devilish.
Why did I take the class? A guy named Sam in NY shoved a Green Card in my face and asked "what benefit on this card would you most like to have?" I responded immediately "That's easy - Makes life meaningful." How did it happen that over time what made my life meaningful was defined by TWI?
Maybe those 10 benefits on the Green Card are all legit – in terms of how TWI defines them. I think some are rather ironic like, Enables you to separate truth from error. I am truly amazed when I run into people that believe PFAL is on equal footing with the Bible [or even assume TWI is synonymous with the Kingdom of God]. I also got the idea that truth – the Original God-Breathed Word - was a very elusive, long lost thing that only TWI was able to discover. I will admit – after PFAL I LOVED reading the Bible. How did that mutate into worshipping the Bible? This gets weird to try to describe – sort of convoluted – my relationship wasn't with God but with a book – and really it wasn't a direct relationship between me and the book but as one interpreted through TWI. That made them the priesthood with the Bible inside the Holy of Holies – where I'm not allowed.
I asked an IT guy at work one day why computer manufacturers don't just build an operating system into a chip. His short answer – nobody can build something perfect. It's a lot easier to distribute patches and updates for software then people having to yank out defective chips and plug in the replacements. I wonder where TWI would be today if they hadn't put PFAL on a pedestal – but allowed wonderfully human, imperfect people and God's Spirit have free course in Bible study and practice.
I agree with you and Modaustin that this is not my thread. If it does appear sometimes like I am assuming the lead-poster role here I think it’s only because I was given more material to present. We have many sub-threads running concurrently here, so feel free to “derail” like never before.
Just to keep things clear for readers, though, I suggest we label such allowed derailment posts with a topic title explaining the departure from the current discussion. If a post is to refer to an earlier buried topic by the current posting, then again a suitable sub-topic title and the Post #numbers it refers to would help all readers follow.
***
You wrote: “PFAL is on equal footing with the Bible [or even assume TWI is synonymous with the Kingdom of God]. I also got the idea that truth – the Original God-Breathed Word - was a very elusive, long lost thing that only TWI was able to discover.”
The way I see it is the authoritative Bible is long lost and quite elusive. We have less than authoritative Bible versions available to us but we all know they are not the last word on the subject. If therefore, God steps in to this dilemma and inspires English words to be written like He did thousands of years ago, then we DO have something authoritative.
It’s in this respect that I see PFAL on equal footing with the original Bible manuscripts, and on a superior footing to all available Bible versions available. Take away the originals and PFAL’s footing topples. There’s no way PFAL could communicate anything if it weren’t for the original Bible. Nearly every page of PFAL rests on Bible verses and would be an insane read if they were removed.
***
I realize that TWI is not the only group of people capable of doing five senses (and therefore non-authoritative) Biblical research. The existence of JCPS would be impossible if it weren’t for the relatively recent five senses Biblical research of a Dr. Ernest L. Martin in the non-TWI institution named the Foundation for Biblical research in Pasadena CA.
The fact that VPW vocally and in print credited Dr. Martin for his work may have slipped by your attention, but may have corrected the mis-impression you state you had that TWI claimed to have an exclusive grasp on this field. I can’t blame you for thinking this back then, though, because the TVTs by that time were saturated with the idea the TWI was the only such institution.
There’s a big difference between presenting non-authoritative authoritative research and presenting that which has God’s breath directing. A non-authoritative presentation can be very accurate with the facts, yet fall short on the truths.
VPW was very happy and excited when he came across Dr. Martin’s non-authoritative but factually accurate work. I have no doubt that God guided Dr to read Dr. martin’s work. The way he and God presented this work to us, I believe, is God-breathed.
***
I think lots of the complaints you have of the stifling atmosphere of later years TWI are valid. However, I would disagree with you that there is NECESSARILY a difference between intense Bible (aided with PFAL) study and having a relationship with God and His Son. It’s POSSIBLE to avoid this available relationship and have lots of bible facts stored in one’s head, but I don’t believe it’s possible to have a deep relationship with God and be ignorant of the material in the Bible, especially in Paul’s epistles. Lots of people claim to have such a non-biblical relationship with God, but I am convinced that at best they are merely conjuring up some pleasant emotions and the True God is not involved. It’s a god of their own making.
In Post #366 on this thread I discussed the need for such a relationship to have accurate words. It’s an expansion of Jesus’ quote of Deut. 6:5 “And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.” The very next verse says “And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:”
I have posted at GSC many times on Deut. 6 and this word based relationship God wants and demands, so searching may bring up more details. At the very least reading that entire Deut. chapter will show what I’m talking about.
A true relationship with God can be missed with Bible study, but it cannot be achieved without Bible study.
***
You wrote: “I wonder where TWI would be today if they hadn't put PFAL on a pedestal – but allowed wonderfully human, imperfect people and God's Spirit have free course in Bible study and practice.”
Actually, we didn’t properly handle PFAL and that’s why the ministry meltdown happened. We only acquired a partial understanding of PFAL and even that got corrupted as the years went by. Dr spent the last ten years of his life trying to get us back to the written forms of the class, but all of us in leadership were pretty content with a casual and partial knowledge of the written materials, coasting on our memory and feeding off the TVTs.
I wonder where TWI would be today if we hadn't put written PFAL on the back burner – but allowed wonderfully human, imperfect people and God's Spirit to have free course in Bible study and practice within the perfect guidance written PFAL offered.
But we need not wonder about ourselves and the wonderful relationship with God that emerges from coming back to written PFAL again meekly mastering it.
I responded to your handling of “thus saith” statements #1 and #2 last night in Post #1000 of this thread.
Yikes! That’s amazing to think, a thousand posts here. If archeologists were to someday centuries from now find a hard drive with all this on it I wonder what they would think of us?
Anyway, Oak, if you already read that post, I made some major additions this morning and fontationalized them with this bright blue.
I compared my situation to his situation. I compared my lack of response to his lack of response. I think that’s why we have accounts like his, to help us relate to their situations. That wasn’t even a nice try, it was a desperate one.
I compare myself to Jesus Christ all the time, and find myself lacking in most areas.
Don’t you.
Mike... when comparing someone's situation and how they reacted to your situation and how you react... that's comparing yourself to (in this case) Noah.
And I'm not attacking you. You made the statement that you had seen Jesus. That's a bold statement... and if you're not going to tell us what he looked like physically... then please tell us how we're supposed to believe that statement... and if we can't believe that statement how can we believe any other statement you have made?
I'm not attacking you Mike, although you do always seem to want to play the victim, I'm trying to figure out if you have any credibility, to determine if you or your message should be heeded... and all you ever do is say "you just have to believe me" (but in many many more words than that).
Why would you make such a statement? Even you would know that if you made a statement like that you would be questioned on it.
And I know that previously you've explained things like this as (paraphrasing) "sometimes I just say things to shake things up" ... to that I would ask this: How would we know that you weren't just telling us to take it on faith that PFAL is God-Breathed just to 'shake things up'???
Many have thought that I do merely want to shake things up with my oft repeated assertions like God-breathed PFAL, in spite of the intense detail and constant repetition.
Seeing Jesus is something we should all want to do and strive for, like Zacheus did in his tree climbing, and is covered in an entire chapter of OMSW.
I’ve often posted on how we need to look for the spiritual now, and not the physical in many areas. Because we are so far removed STILL from being spiritually oriented, we tend to think that the BETTER way to see Jesus would be physically, in the flesh, because the still small voice is so still and small and this applies to the sight as well. It seems like too flimsy a way to see him to us who are not yet proficient in the revelation manifestations, which IMO is ALL of us, me included.
But many, many people did see Jesus phsically long ago and where are they now? Only a small few, and only for a very small time did they come even somewhat close to doing all the things that Jesus Christ did. Seeing him physically did not make them become totally like him, like our seeing of him spiritually promises.
That you are so eager to hear physical details, and that you slough off the spiritual setup of what I have glimpsed should tell you that you have some spiritual growing yet to do.
I think there is ALSO something to seeing him physically, but first things first, spiritually is the way God wants it now. Otherwise he would not have removed His Son from the physical realm and placed him in the spiritual at His right hand.
***
Why would I make a statement that I know will come back and “haunt me” ?
I dunno. I haven’t gone back to read the contexts.
Maybe I was inspired. I have to admit, the impact of my statements to that effect have reached far more eyes due to your paste badgering (or whatever description you prefer). This would be an excellent example of Philippians 1: 15-19.
Maybe I was angry and blew it. I don’t worry about it. If I blew it and am doing God’s work He has to cover for me.
As far as heeding my message, I think I’ve given plenty of reasons for opening the books again, and he who has ears to hear will hear it, remembering that there are lots of current and future silent readers of this website, as well as there can be lots of currently rejecting posters who sometimes feel the need to search for better understanding, and who who may eventually put it together that there is a huge unturned stone out there and try opening the books.
I appreciate your not attacking me now, but your paste jobs leave you wanting for diplomacy. Impolite badgering in nasty tones is o way to get information out of anyone.
***
Still, I was not comparing my character with Noah’s character and claiming any kind of equality, which is what you were implying. We’re supposed to compare our situations to similar ones in the past and see how the great cloud of wit\nesses handled them for our guidance and support.
You wrote: “Mike, thank you for interpreting that which I had just spoken in a post...Maybe we better handle that in the All Nine all the time thread.”
I have to interpret all posts before responding to them, but in this one you don’t give me enough information to have any confidence in handling it. I don’t understand the “all nine” reference one bit at all. Are you saying I should have gotten revelation on your last post to get it right, because that I got it terribly wrong? I’m not sure if you are sincere with your “thank you” or sarcastic. I’m hard pressed to interpret this one.
I( can't even tell if the smiley face icon is waving hello or goodbye.
You last post I felt I had interpreted correctly. You may not have like how I used it as a jumping off platform for expressing my views, but I don’t see how I can change that much. I can ask you if I got something wrong in the way I interpreted, though, which would be in accordance with what we were taught in the AC about all nine, especially receiving revelation, that God expects us to know by the five senses what we can know.
So please, let me know if there’s any line(s) in your post that I misinterpreted, and I’ll try again to respond appropriately.
I responded to your handling of “thus saith” statements #1 and #2 last night in Post #1000 of this thread.
Yikes! That’s amazing to think, a thousand posts here. If archeologists were to someday centuries from now find a hard drive with all this on it I wonder what they would think of us?
Anyway, Oak, if you already read that post, I made some major additions this morning and fontationalized them with this bright blue.
So, you wrote: “...you haven't actually physically seen him? just spiritually???”
What do you mean by “...just spiritually”???
Is that like “merely spiritually”?
Is there something lacking with spiritually?
Is there something less than “actual” with spiritually?
I think we got a lot of background work to do.
***
Let me ask YOU a question to get you prepared for some answers.
When you see Jesus, how will you know FOR SURE that it’s him, the REAL him and not a counterfeit?
You wouldn’t want to bend the knee and swear loyalty to the wrong god accidentally.
Have you ever thought this through deeply?
I used to do this all the time in the 60’s. I saw all kinds of things then. From those experiences I would say the counterfeit is much more possible than most people think.
This is related to your questions to me, because how are you going to tell if what I saw was counterfeit or not?
What criteria can be used to discern the real Jesus? Finger prints? Iris scan? DNA?
One guy I know used touching the holes in his hands feet and the gash in his side to tell, but he got scolded for that.
How much thought have you put into things like this? I’m serious.
Before I’m allowed to bring you on a tour of the limits of the universe, I have to make sure you can take it. It’s a liability issue. My hands are tied by insurance regulations. You have to be fit to survive the ride, doncha know.
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T-Bone
Modaustin posted Feb 9 2006 7:11 PM
"Who this thread is for: Anyone and everyone who wants to argue about PFAL. Boxing gloves are NOT optional. But keep your fight HERE, on THIS thread."
My position on PFAL is that it is NOT very good in helping people understand the Bible [and in my opinion does very little to encourage a relationship with God] – both from the content and philosophical viewpoint it fosters. I think there's a lot of truth and error in PFAL – and don't see it as a good Bible study aid – but more as Final Exam on Critical Thinking 101…Come to think of it – I do like those brain-teasers where you have two seemingly identical pictures side by side and you're challenged to find the differences between the two…
I think Raf, WordWolf, JBarrax and others have done a great job of analyzing PFAL content – my opinion here focuses on what I think are some of the ideas PFAL conveys to students – which slowly evolve into their rule for faith and practice. My post is more of a rant – so sorry if I bore you with the "internal affairs" of my head. Is that legit on this thread? I guess so – I'm mentioning the effect PFAL personally had on me. I'm not blaming PFAL for that – I'm saying this is how my brain processed it. And really this post doesn't have a whole lot of substance – it's just some things I wonder about – so they may be off the wall and tripped-out…..Okay – just flat out devilish.
Why did I take the class? A guy named Sam in NY shoved a Green Card in my face and asked "what benefit on this card would you most like to have?" I responded immediately "That's easy - Makes life meaningful." How did it happen that over time what made my life meaningful was defined by TWI?
Maybe those 10 benefits on the Green Card are all legit – in terms of how TWI defines them. I think some are rather ironic like, Enables you to separate truth from error. I am truly amazed when I run into people that believe PFAL is on equal footing with the Bible [or even assume TWI is synonymous with the Kingdom of God]. I also got the idea that truth – the Original God-Breathed Word - was a very elusive, long lost thing that only TWI was able to discover. I will admit – after PFAL I LOVED reading the Bible. How did that mutate into worshipping the Bible? This gets weird to try to describe – sort of convoluted – my relationship wasn't with God but with a book – and really it wasn't a direct relationship between me and the book but as one interpreted through TWI. That made them the priesthood with the Bible inside the Holy of Holies – where I'm not allowed.
I asked an IT guy at work one day why computer manufacturers don't just build an operating system into a chip. His short answer – nobody can build something perfect. It's a lot easier to distribute patches and updates for software then people having to yank out defective chips and plug in the replacements. I wonder where TWI would be today if they hadn't put PFAL on a pedestal – but allowed wonderfully human, imperfect people and God's Spirit have free course in Bible study and practice.
Edited by T-BoneLink to comment
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Mike
Hi T-Bone,
I’m happy to see you again.
I agree with you and Modaustin that this is not my thread. If it does appear sometimes like I am assuming the lead-poster role here I think it’s only because I was given more material to present. We have many sub-threads running concurrently here, so feel free to “derail” like never before.
Just to keep things clear for readers, though, I suggest we label such allowed derailment posts with a topic title explaining the departure from the current discussion. If a post is to refer to an earlier buried topic by the current posting, then again a suitable sub-topic title and the Post #numbers it refers to would help all readers follow.
***
You wrote: “PFAL is on equal footing with the Bible [or even assume TWI is synonymous with the Kingdom of God]. I also got the idea that truth – the Original God-Breathed Word - was a very elusive, long lost thing that only TWI was able to discover.”
The way I see it is the authoritative Bible is long lost and quite elusive. We have less than authoritative Bible versions available to us but we all know they are not the last word on the subject. If therefore, God steps in to this dilemma and inspires English words to be written like He did thousands of years ago, then we DO have something authoritative.
It’s in this respect that I see PFAL on equal footing with the original Bible manuscripts, and on a superior footing to all available Bible versions available. Take away the originals and PFAL’s footing topples. There’s no way PFAL could communicate anything if it weren’t for the original Bible. Nearly every page of PFAL rests on Bible verses and would be an insane read if they were removed.
***
I realize that TWI is not the only group of people capable of doing five senses (and therefore non-authoritative) Biblical research. The existence of JCPS would be impossible if it weren’t for the relatively recent five senses Biblical research of a Dr. Ernest L. Martin in the non-TWI institution named the Foundation for Biblical research in Pasadena CA.
The fact that VPW vocally and in print credited Dr. Martin for his work may have slipped by your attention, but may have corrected the mis-impression you state you had that TWI claimed to have an exclusive grasp on this field. I can’t blame you for thinking this back then, though, because the TVTs by that time were saturated with the idea the TWI was the only such institution.
There’s a big difference between presenting non-authoritative authoritative research and presenting that which has God’s breath directing. A non-authoritative presentation can be very accurate with the facts, yet fall short on the truths.
VPW was very happy and excited when he came across Dr. Martin’s non-authoritative but factually accurate work. I have no doubt that God guided Dr to read Dr. martin’s work. The way he and God presented this work to us, I believe, is God-breathed.
***
I think lots of the complaints you have of the stifling atmosphere of later years TWI are valid. However, I would disagree with you that there is NECESSARILY a difference between intense Bible (aided with PFAL) study and having a relationship with God and His Son. It’s POSSIBLE to avoid this available relationship and have lots of bible facts stored in one’s head, but I don’t believe it’s possible to have a deep relationship with God and be ignorant of the material in the Bible, especially in Paul’s epistles. Lots of people claim to have such a non-biblical relationship with God, but I am convinced that at best they are merely conjuring up some pleasant emotions and the True God is not involved. It’s a god of their own making.
In Post #366 on this thread I discussed the need for such a relationship to have accurate words. It’s an expansion of Jesus’ quote of Deut. 6:5 “And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.” The very next verse says “And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:”
Post #366 can be found here: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...pic=9131&st=360
I have posted at GSC many times on Deut. 6 and this word based relationship God wants and demands, so searching may bring up more details. At the very least reading that entire Deut. chapter will show what I’m talking about.
A true relationship with God can be missed with Bible study, but it cannot be achieved without Bible study.
***
You wrote: “I wonder where TWI would be today if they hadn't put PFAL on a pedestal – but allowed wonderfully human, imperfect people and God's Spirit have free course in Bible study and practice.”
Actually, we didn’t properly handle PFAL and that’s why the ministry meltdown happened. We only acquired a partial understanding of PFAL and even that got corrupted as the years went by. Dr spent the last ten years of his life trying to get us back to the written forms of the class, but all of us in leadership were pretty content with a casual and partial knowledge of the written materials, coasting on our memory and feeding off the TVTs.
I wonder where TWI would be today if we hadn't put written PFAL on the back burner – but allowed wonderfully human, imperfect people and God's Spirit to have free course in Bible study and practice within the perfect guidance written PFAL offered.
But we need not wonder about ourselves and the wonderful relationship with God that emerges from coming back to written PFAL again meekly mastering it.
Edited by MikeLink to comment
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Mike
Oakspear,
I responded to your handling of “thus saith” statements #1 and #2 last night in Post #1000 of this thread.
Yikes! That’s amazing to think, a thousand posts here. If archeologists were to someday centuries from now find a hard drive with all this on it I wonder what they would think of us?
Anyway, Oak, if you already read that post, I made some major additions this morning and fontationalized them with this bright blue.
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T-Bone
Mike, thank you for interpreting that which I had just spoken in a post...Maybe we better handle that in the All Nine all the time thread.
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Tom Strange
Mike... when comparing someone's situation and how they reacted to your situation and how you react... that's comparing yourself to (in this case) Noah.
And I'm not attacking you. You made the statement that you had seen Jesus. That's a bold statement... and if you're not going to tell us what he looked like physically... then please tell us how we're supposed to believe that statement... and if we can't believe that statement how can we believe any other statement you have made?
I'm not attacking you Mike, although you do always seem to want to play the victim, I'm trying to figure out if you have any credibility, to determine if you or your message should be heeded... and all you ever do is say "you just have to believe me" (but in many many more words than that).
Why would you make such a statement? Even you would know that if you made a statement like that you would be questioned on it.
And I know that previously you've explained things like this as (paraphrasing) "sometimes I just say things to shake things up" ... to that I would ask this: How would we know that you weren't just telling us to take it on faith that PFAL is God-Breathed just to 'shake things up'???
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Mike
Tom,
Many have thought that I do merely want to shake things up with my oft repeated assertions like God-breathed PFAL, in spite of the intense detail and constant repetition.
Seeing Jesus is something we should all want to do and strive for, like Zacheus did in his tree climbing, and is covered in an entire chapter of OMSW.
I’ve often posted on how we need to look for the spiritual now, and not the physical in many areas. Because we are so far removed STILL from being spiritually oriented, we tend to think that the BETTER way to see Jesus would be physically, in the flesh, because the still small voice is so still and small and this applies to the sight as well. It seems like too flimsy a way to see him to us who are not yet proficient in the revelation manifestations, which IMO is ALL of us, me included.
But many, many people did see Jesus phsically long ago and where are they now? Only a small few, and only for a very small time did they come even somewhat close to doing all the things that Jesus Christ did. Seeing him physically did not make them become totally like him, like our seeing of him spiritually promises.
That you are so eager to hear physical details, and that you slough off the spiritual setup of what I have glimpsed should tell you that you have some spiritual growing yet to do.
I think there is ALSO something to seeing him physically, but first things first, spiritually is the way God wants it now. Otherwise he would not have removed His Son from the physical realm and placed him in the spiritual at His right hand.
***
Why would I make a statement that I know will come back and “haunt me” ?
I dunno. I haven’t gone back to read the contexts.
Maybe I was inspired. I have to admit, the impact of my statements to that effect have reached far more eyes due to your paste badgering (or whatever description you prefer). This would be an excellent example of Philippians 1: 15-19.
Maybe I was angry and blew it. I don’t worry about it. If I blew it and am doing God’s work He has to cover for me.
As far as heeding my message, I think I’ve given plenty of reasons for opening the books again, and he who has ears to hear will hear it, remembering that there are lots of current and future silent readers of this website, as well as there can be lots of currently rejecting posters who sometimes feel the need to search for better understanding, and who who may eventually put it together that there is a huge unturned stone out there and try opening the books.
I appreciate your not attacking me now, but your paste jobs leave you wanting for diplomacy. Impolite badgering in nasty tones is o way to get information out of anyone.
***
Still, I was not comparing my character with Noah’s character and claiming any kind of equality, which is what you were implying. We’re supposed to compare our situations to similar ones in the past and see how the great cloud of wit\nesses handled them for our guidance and support.
***********************************************************
***********************************************************
***********************************************************
***********************************************************
T-Bone,
You wrote: “Mike, thank you for interpreting that which I had just spoken in a post...Maybe we better handle that in the All Nine all the time thread.”
I have to interpret all posts before responding to them, but in this one you don’t give me enough information to have any confidence in handling it. I don’t understand the “all nine” reference one bit at all. Are you saying I should have gotten revelation on your last post to get it right, because that I got it terribly wrong? I’m not sure if you are sincere with your “thank you” or sarcastic. I’m hard pressed to interpret this one.
I( can't even tell if the smiley face icon is waving hello or goodbye.
You last post I felt I had interpreted correctly. You may not have like how I used it as a jumping off platform for expressing my views, but I don’t see how I can change that much. I can ask you if I got something wrong in the way I interpreted, though, which would be in accordance with what we were taught in the AC about all nine, especially receiving revelation, that God expects us to know by the five senses what we can know.
So please, let me know if there’s any line(s) in your post that I misinterpreted, and I’ll try again to respond appropriately.
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T-Bone
Mike, don't worry about anything you said - I was just trying to inject a little humor into the thread...
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Tom Strange
So then you're talking "spiritually" here???
Mike 2/2/04, 12:17am.
"When you see Christ in his glory he will be holding a PFAL book in his hand
and teaching you from it."
Mike 2/3/04 5:22am.
"Jesus Christ appointed Dr his spokesman.
Jesus Christ is VERY interested in PFAL.
He told me so."
Vickles 2/3/04, 7:51pm.
"So, Mike, you weren't kidding about JC coming with a PFAL book in his hand."
Mike, 2/3/04, 7:53pm.
"Totally serious. I've already seen him this way more than once."
...you haven't actually physically seen him? just spiritually???
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Oakspear
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Mike
T-Bone,
Thanks. Sorry if I was a little paranoid.
I get hit from many directions and it's sometimes hard to retract my shields.
**************alert********************************alert*****************
********************************SHIELDS UP****************************
*************all hands on deck*******************battle stations*************
**********************************************************************
Oh HI Tom!
Old pal, old buddy, old friend!
What’s up?
So, you wrote: “...you haven't actually physically seen him? just spiritually???”
What do you mean by “...just spiritually”???
Is that like “merely spiritually”?
Is there something lacking with spiritually?
Is there something less than “actual” with spiritually?
I think we got a lot of background work to do.
***
Let me ask YOU a question to get you prepared for some answers.
When you see Jesus, how will you know FOR SURE that it’s him, the REAL him and not a counterfeit?
You wouldn’t want to bend the knee and swear loyalty to the wrong god accidentally.
Have you ever thought this through deeply?
I used to do this all the time in the 60’s. I saw all kinds of things then. From those experiences I would say the counterfeit is much more possible than most people think.
This is related to your questions to me, because how are you going to tell if what I saw was counterfeit or not?
What criteria can be used to discern the real Jesus? Finger prints? Iris scan? DNA?
One guy I know used touching the holes in his hands feet and the gash in his side to tell, but he got scolded for that.
How much thought have you put into things like this? I’m serious.
Before I’m allowed to bring you on a tour of the limits of the universe, I have to make sure you can take it. It’s a liability issue. My hands are tied by insurance regulations. You have to be fit to survive the ride, doncha know.
Edited by MikeLink to comment
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