As always... "me" in bold... "Mike" in regular font...
Tom,
I do distance myself from those statements because the context from which they arose is a very great distance from what I'm trying to get into right now.
so... you still "stand by them as true" but don't want to discuss them right now?
If you're not interested in the immediate discussion then I have a right to relatively ignore your distractions from it.
Well... (1) the title of the thread is 'PFAL' and (2) Since you claim that every thing you "teach" is from PFAL I think it's important (at least to me) that the "students" know where you're coming from regarding PFAL and therefore IS pertinent to the immediate discussion.
I do appreciate, however, this recent effort of yours to engage in dialog. Let's point that dialog to the law of believing, ok?
You were pointing all of your "teaching" on this subject to PFAL, that's why I asked the question
***
Put yourself in my shoes for a second:
If you wanted to talk about one particular subject and someone who paid little attention to the heart of what you had said and were saying, and insisted on interrupting you with quotes of yours that were off the current topic, would YOU allow such a gadfly to interrupt your progress?
Your 'current' topic is a "teaching" from PFAL, therefore a question about your 'stance' concerning PFAL is relevent. (is a 'gadfly' bad?)
***
Why can't you focus on discussing what’s in PFAL?
I am, your position on PFAL is part of that discussion.
Instead you insist on attacking my credibility to discuss PFAL, yet you seem to have nothing positive to contribute yourself.
So you consider it an 'attack' when someone asks you if you still have the same opinion about your main point of reference/reverence (PFAL). That's not an attack my friend, that's merely wanting to establish 'where you're coming from'.
You're a one trick pony, and I'd like to see you actually engage in what the current topic is, and limit yourself to that topic, EVEN IF your side seems to be loosing at some point.
Isn't the "current topic" always either PFAL or Mike? Oh... One trick but many variations... (alas... we are alike in some ways Mike).
What do you think detached readers think of you when I make a bunch of PFAL text based points, and you rush in to 'play' with me and try to distract the discussion at hand to make the subject me? They know you have no argument, that's what they think.
I don't really think I'm qualified to guess what people think Mike, and I tend not to even try since there's really no way you or I would ever know unless 'they' state what they're thinking. ...Or have you gained another magical power that you haven't shared with us yet from your 'Mastery'?
What do you think the "detached readers" think about the way you always avoid answering direct questions?
You're 'playing' is cheap and juvenile. If you want me to engage you more you must show more substance than a teenage graffiti artist.
ooh... now that really hurts... wouldn't it be easier just to answer the question? ...or would you rather just continue to avoid that and berate and call names?
I try to stay out of doctrinal fights, because I have allowed myself a lot of time to heal, which has allowed a lot of my previous knowledge to fade. I also don't express myself as intelligently as others.
Mike, I realize you are fighting battles on several fronts. but I must tell you that you apparently didn't get my point. You patronized me instead of acknowleding the issue.
TWI says God doesn't protect you unless you BELIEVE without question. Well, bud, I became much more succesfull after I left TWI. And some of the horrifying situations that I endured while under TWI's thumb have not repeated themselves.
I can only attribute this by a simplification of my belief in a loving God. I don't need more "sentences" to do that.
Mike, I realize you are fighting battles on several fronts. but I must tell you that you apparently didn't get my point. You patronized me instead of acknowleding the issue.
Thank you for your civil manner, and noticing that I am in the middle of a complex fight.
I’ll try my best to switch gears in my addressing you.
Let’s start out by my acknowledging the pain you felt, which was what I think I dealt with in my first response to you.
As for the success part, I recognize the facts as you state them, as accurately representing many more like you. I can’t argue with what actually happened to us all, collectively.
My argument here with the others, and that I can try to more civilly apply to you is this. I firmly believe that all of us grads had drifted over the years into various sub cults within the ministry. In the early years it was real obvious that there were two main sub-cults: the jocks and the hippies. Those early boundaries blended, though, as the years went by.
Later many more sub-cults emerged, but were less visible because they were not characterized by clothing and slang and sports, but by sub-cult leaders and by their pet verbal doctrines. It was like the ministry slowly divided up into a set of denominations very subtly distinct from each other. I have given a name for the verbal doctrines the grew within these sub-cults, I call them Twi Verbal Traditions, or TVTs for short.
The TVTs differed only slightly at first from the written texts of PFAL, or the added to that text, or they omitted sections of that text.
It is my firm belief that both the pain and the lack of success you experienced was because you, like all the rest of us, were immersed not in written PFAL, but in damaging TVTs. The TVTs are close counterfeits of written PFAL, VERY close counterfeits. Only a master of the genuine can tell them apart.
After Dr died three of the sub-cults quickly pulled apart from each other, and slowly many, many others came into manifestation, but all are characterized by a slow move away from the written texts, and especially any deep mastery of them. A few are hovering around the texts, but are often distracted by the many tapes and videos in circulation. I know of precious few individuals, let alone groups, that are focused on written PFAL mastery at the deep level Dr called for.
***
That said, let me be more specific in my response.
You wrote: “I try to stay out of doctrinal fights, because I have allowed myself a lot of time to heal, which has allowed a lot of my previous knowledge to fade. I also don't express myself as intelligently as others.”
You come off very intelligent, as well as civil.
***
You wrote: “Mike, I realize you are fighting battles on several fronts. but I must tell you that you apparently didn't get my point. You patronized me instead of acknowleding the issue.”
Thank you for coming to this very disturbed doctrinal battlefield and allowing me to discuss these matters with you. If I came of as patronizing it wasn’t my intention. I thank you all the more for coming back after having that impression. I hope I’ve diffused it some above.
***
You wrote: “TWI says God doesn't protect you unless you BELIEVE without question. Well, bud, I became much more succesfull after I left TWI. And some of the horrifying situations that I endured while under TWI's thumb have not repeated themselves. __ I can only attribute this by a simplification of my belief in a loving God. I don't need more "sentences" to do that.”
Yes, when any of us are immersed in a set of TVTs, then "a simplification of my belief in a loving God" would be an improvement.
I can believe that you have enough sentences, or Elements, of God’s Word in you to help a lot in everyday living type of success.
However, if you were take that set of sentences and your simple trust in God’s love, you might have a hard time if you were to enter a MUCH more demanding arena than everyday life. If you were to take on the devil and really challenge his power over a of people, your set of sentences and your simple belief may run dry at some point. Let’s face it, sooner or later everyone’s does. If we want to challenge the devil in all the ways Jesus Christ did, we might need a more complete set of Elements as we apply the law of believing to more than everyday living, but to the most extreme challenges of life.
Ok, now I have to switch gears back to eyeball-to-eyeball distractive combat with you.
Give me a second.
OK
You wrote: "so... you still "stand by them as true" but don't want to discuss them right now?"
Correct.
***
Now I just answered one question of a lengthy homework assignment you just gave me.
And I can see from the first reading that it’s worth a second reading and some kind of response, even though some of the things you bring up have already been dealt with on numerous occasions.
But before I respond to any more of this topic-distracting task posed by you (in your consistently interuptitudinal mode of operation), I must set your lengthy questionnaire aside and tit you for a tat.
It’s your turn to answer one of my questions. okay?
Name for me either one of the 5th and 6th Elements of the law of believing as posted on this thread by me today in those PFAL quotes above, March 2, 2006.
You have a right to interrupt, but I have a right to resist it after reasonable consideration, which I did already.
I’ve made it easier for you by trimming it down...
Either name me the 6th Element in here:
GMWD p. 18, 19
Verse 3 of Psalms 103 very plainly says, “Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all [without exception] thy diseases.” Does God forgive your sins? Well then, does God heal you? He must or He is a liar; but God is no liar. People may then question, “Well, why doesn’t God heal everybody?” Healing for all is God’s will. But when we fail to rise up to our rightful and legal privileges, due to a variety of causes—the greatest cause being a negative society where people talk about, expect, and cope with negative things—we fail to be healed. To claim and manifest God’s healing we must believe on the positives of His Word, not the negatives of the world.
...
...
...
Or, Tom, name me the 5th Element in here:
PFAL p. 28, 29
The man with the withered hand who had this tremendous need, stretched out his hand. He did the impossible. How? He believed. Believe is a verb and a verb shows action. The man believed that what Jesus said was God's will; therefore, he stretched his hand forth. Once you have the promise of God, the “how” of receiving is to believe literally what that promise says. It appeared impossible for the man to stretch out his hand. Yet this man, believing what The Word said or what God said by way of Jesus Christ, stretched it forth
TNDC p. 52
What a joy it is to belong to the Church. When we belong to the Church, we belong to the greatest and powerful body in the world; there is nothing like Church anywhere. The Church has such great power that even the gates of hell cannot prevail against it. That is why the devil cannot harm the people of the Church when they know the name of Christ and use that name, believing in it. Can you see why our prayers must be answered when we believe that Christ is in us? We can receive anything from God that He has promised in The Word if we only know and believe it. Everything that has been revealed in The Word we can thank God for, and, if we believe, it will come to pass.
TNDC p. 54
Ask yourself honestly, “Do I have the power of attorney?” You do have the right, the God-given authority, to use the name of Jesus Christ and see things come to pass. Yet for years and years people inside the fellowship of believers have seen but few positive results. Why? Just to say the name of Jesus Christ is not all that is necessary; you must believe that when you are saying it things will come to pass. All power is energized by believing and it is up to you to operate believing. Believing is action. You must know that what the Word of God says, and then act upon that Word. As you hear The Word and act upon it, God will answer your requests.
BTMS p. 37
As we act on the promises of God, they become real to us and are evidenced in our lives. Synchronize your believing and confession on the promises of God’s Word and you will manifest a more than abundant life in Christ Jesus.
BTMS p. 46
Once you start practicing the law of believing – right believing, believing God – you will find that the evil things that have been governing your life will soon fade away. God is always the victor over evil; but it is up to you to believe God and to make His will your will. __ In all the New Testament epistles, you will never find Christian believers urged to have faith; they already have faith as believers, and they are encouraged to believe God and express what they already have. __ Romans 12:3: ... according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. __ The word “believe” is a verb which connotes action. Therefore, believing the Word of God, taking the Word of God literally and acting upon it, brings results. This is the law of believing and this is the action that will bring release and victory to your life in every situation. "If thou canst believe, all things are possible [presently available] to him that believeth."
...
...
...
And what will you win, Tom?
If you can name just one of these two Elements:
It will tell me that you are capable of hearing what I say to you, sooooooo.....
(So far you have not convinced me of that, not on these PFAL text issues.)
..... If you name one Element ... I’ll spend some more quality time on your distractions from my topic.
OK then... so just to be sure I'm clear on this... on page 26 I ask you if you still stand by/believe in these statements:
"PFAL is 'God's Word reissued'."
This means "we don't need any versions of the Bible anymore, only PFAL."
"PFAL is the Word of God, that the Holy Spirit has provided us with His Word in written form in PFAL, and it (PFAL) carries all the authority of God Almighty."
"Christ is currently learning from PFAL and will be teaching from PFAL materials when he returns."
"Betraying Dr's revelations is betraying God."
"You just need to feed that Christ inside with the pure Word of PFAL."
"Studying PFAL will defeat death."
To which you reply on page 27 that I was correct in my assumption that you still stood by them as true. I really don't know what made that a "lengthy homework assignment" ...I just wanted to make sure that I was clear on "where you're coming from"....
Now as to your question... I already answered as to the fifth element. It's that thing (was it blue?) that they took out of Milla Jovovich's stomach and put in the pyramid so the alien ships could land.
Thanks for finally answering the question Mike.
OH... and Mike... once you're finished TEACHING us the LAW OF BELIEVING can you teach us about one or more of these (your) beliefs?
"PFAL is 'God's Word reissued'."
This means "we don't need any versions of the Bible anymore, only PFAL."
"PFAL is the Word of God, that the Holy Spirit has provided us with His Word in written form in PFAL, and it (PFAL) carries all the authority of God Almighty."
"Christ is currently learning from PFAL and will be teaching from PFAL materials when he returns."
"Betraying Dr's revelations is betraying God."
"You just need to feed that Christ inside with the pure Word of PFAL."
"Studying PFAL will defeat death."
Could you please? I'm thinking we need to be further enlightened as I don't think your previous teachings accomplished your goal...
WW and Tom Strange have no intention of communicating with you on the text issues,
and only want to distract readers from doing so as well.
Mike... you are assuming that there were actually interested readers to be distracted...
Haven't you noticed that the "Law of Believing" discussion on this the PFAL thread had become rather "circular"?
I think it's time that we started/reopened the discussions of the PFAL claims listed below:
"PFAL is 'God's Word reissued'."
This means "we don't need any versions of the Bible anymore, only PFAL."
"PFAL is the Word of God, that the Holy Spirit has provided us with His Word in written form in PFAL, and it (PFAL) carries all the authority of God Almighty."
"Christ is currently learning from PFAL and will be teaching from PFAL materials when he returns."
"Betraying Dr's revelations is betraying God."
"You just need to feed that Christ inside with the pure Word of PFAL."
"Studying PFAL will defeat death."
Will you please teach us about those?
Mike, why are you reluctant to teach us on these things?
Aw c'mon Mikey... come back and play... don't take your toys and go home!
Let's talk about some of those ideas of yours... just because we don't agree on them doesn't mean we can't talk about them... no need to get mad about it...
It’s good to see you retaining your sense of humor in the midst of all this. I often have one-on-one conversations with people like you in the midst of food-fights like this here at the Cafe. We could continue if you like.
I know my 5th Element Game Show is not succeeding in getting any players, but I’m not surprised. The attempts to shut down my message are continual and have lasted 3 years now. But every now and then I get to have civil discourse with posters like you.
Have you followed the discussion from far back enough to know what the Elements are in my Game Show?
Elements are small pieces of doctrine regarding the law of believing as taught in written PFAL, but which were sometimes conspicuously missing in TVTs.
I’m trying to show here that most of the criticisms of PFAL’s written law of believing are actually valid criticisms of the TVTs. These TVTs simply omitted crucial elements of Dr’s teaching, and that’s where some of the pain and lack of success in our later ministry experiences stem from.
So, would you like to participate in extracting one or two more Elemental sentences from the block of purple font PFAL paragraphs I posted several posts back, which sum up a crucial element of the law of believing?
The purple block of PFAL paragraphs is in post #531, in the section addressed to Tom, right after that section addressed to you.
By the way, did the TVT explanation make sense to you in that same post #531?
I know my 5th Element Game Show is not succeeding in getting any players, but I'm not surprised. The attempts to shut down my message are continual and have lasted 3 years now. But every now and then I get to have civil discourse with posters like you.
Have you followed the discussion from far back enough to know what the Elements are in my Game Show?
...and you say your posts are not about you... Mike, you're too modest... you don't give yourself enough credit...
And Mike... really... you always characterize yourself as being in a fight with me... all I've ever done is question you about the bizarre (to me) statements you make... isn't that allowed?
You know... when you make the statements, claiming they are "truth", that you make in these forums, well... wouldn't you expect some questions? I wouldn't call it a fight... it's simply a discourse... it takes two people to fight... I just ask you about your bizarre (to me) "truths"...
You seem to have little ego invested in me being dead wrong.
Can you play the game and see the 5th Element?
Mike, you may be right, you may be wrong...I'm sure there are many "elements" to whatever you want to talk about...but no, I can't read your mind and figure out what exactly you are talking about.
So, who sees (or WANTS to see) the 5th and 6th Elements to our law of believing.
Our understanding and ability to operate this law is limited to the fullness of our set of Elemments.
Certainly I cannot take any critics of this law seriously if their set of Elements is deficient.
You crack me up. You contiinue to define the rules as you go along. When you make up the rules, don't tell anyone what they are, and decide who is worthy to debate you based on those secret rules, of course, in your own mind, you always win.
Well Tom, I just wanted you to know that I have learned new things from you.
I also have learned from WW. Both of you have taught me the Power of the Paste.
You taught me with your “Mike Synopsiseses” of context stripped quotes from months and years ago,
and WW with his Brute Force Commentary Tank (BFCT) trampling down a re-pasting of every line I write.
I think it's time for a re-paste of that Purple Block of Text
that so many posters are so insistent on not reading and not commenting on.
Hey, let's change the color to green, though.
I think the purple is hard to read.
Green looks easier.
Maybe that's why no one would read it.
People like you, Tom, shouldn’t have to constantly go back numerous pages
to ignore the Purple Block of Text.
You should have the convenience of ignoring it right in front of you.
For the prizes mentioned in previous posts,
please, name the 6th Element in here:
GMWD p. 18, 19
Verse 3 of Psalms 103 very plainly says, “Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all [without exception] thy diseases.” Does God forgive your sins? Well then, does God heal you? He must or He is a liar; but God is no liar. People may then question, “Well, why doesn’t God heal everybody?” Healing for all is God’s will. But when we fail to rise up to our rightful and legal privileges, due to a variety of causes—the greatest cause being a negative society where people talk about, expect, and cope with negative things—we fail to be healed. To claim and manifest God’s healing we must believe on the positives of His Word, not the negatives of the world.
OR
please, name the 5th Element in here:
PFAL p. 28, 29
The man with the withered hand who had this tremendous need, stretched out his hand. He did the impossible. How? He believed. Believe is a verb and a verb shows action. The man believed that what Jesus said was God's will; therefore, he stretched his hand forth. Once you have the promise of God, the “how” of receiving is to believe literally what that promise says. It appeared impossible for the man to stretch out his hand. Yet this man, believing what The Word said or what God said by way of Jesus Christ, stretched it forth
TNDC p. 52
What a joy it is to belong to the Church. When we belong to the Church, we belong to the greatest and powerful body in the world; there is nothing like Church anywhere. The Church has such great power that even the gates of hell cannot prevail against it. That is why the devil cannot harm the people of the Church when they know the name of Christ and use that name, believing in it. Can you see why our prayers must be answered when we believe that Christ is in us? We can receive anything from God that He has promised in The Word if we only know and believe it. Everything that has been revealed in The Word we can thank God for, and, if we believe, it will come to pass.
TNDC p. 54
Ask yourself honestly, “Do I have the power of attorney?” You do have the right, the God-given authority, to use the name of Jesus Christ and see things come to pass. Yet for years and years people inside the fellowship of believers have seen but few positive results. Why? Just to say the name of Jesus Christ is not all that is necessary; you must believe that when you are saying it things will come to pass. All power is energized by believing and it is up to you to operate believing. Believing is action. You must know that what the Word of God says, and then act upon that Word. As you hear The Word and act upon it, God will answer your requests.
BTMS p. 37
As we act on the promises of God, they become real to us and are evidenced in our lives. Synchronize your believing and confession on the promises of God’s Word and you will manifest a more than abundant life in Christ Jesus.
BTMS p. 46
Once you start practicing the law of believing – right believing, believing God – you will find that the evil things that have been governing your life will soon fade away. God is always the victor over evil; but it is up to you to believe God and to make His will your will. __ In all the New Testament epistles, you will never find Christian believers urged to have faith; they already have faith as believers, and they are encouraged to believe God and express what they already have. __ Romans 12:3: ... according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. __ The word “believe” is a verb which connotes action. Therefore, believing the Word of God, taking the Word of God literally and acting upon it, brings results. This is the law of believing and this is the action that will bring release and victory to your life in every situation. "If thou canst believe, all things are possible [presently available] to him that believeth."
I can't seem to find all the things you all are talking about because I lack the patience and the time to go through all the muck and mire but here sre two things I dont' recall seeing:
1. Get needs and wants parallel ( My pet peeve as I will discuss later.)
2. Act. Act on the Word. The man with the withered hand acted on the promise.
Granted this is PFAL speak. I believe that there is much more and yet much less to "believing than this. How do you define and formulate a deep heart issue? This all seems rather Pharisee-like to me.
While in residence, D^ve B*d^rd said something that made sense. He said that God's ideas were man's ideals. A man might NEED a car but he WANTS a Porsche ( yea, and I want a million dollars and a flat stomach!)
Now I realize that Dr said that each man must determine his need in his own heart with the renewed mind ( This came from a quote supplied to me in a PM.) This really sets my teeth on edge. Just how did vpw get it into his RENEWED MIND that he NEEDED and WANTED young Corps girls.
You can't justify this from the Word - but yet if a person is so dishonest with himself that he fools himself into believing that he has a real need and that this is a renewed mind effort - well all sorts of sin get justified.
Too many holes, not enough GOD.
I may not have been as coherent as I can be - I'm in the middle of a really busy time. I probably shouldn't have posted - but ...well - sue me.
Oh and Mike - yes ist was a reverend that did all that stuff I mentioned - and more. He was a "favorite son" of sorts to vpw and he had learned well how to get people to doo all the work while he got all the glory and collected the abs he used to buy land and horses for his kids - now tell me THAT was a need! ( Along with the marriages he ruined and the women he defiled and the lies he told.) He learned that behavior and he was allowed to practice it. Previous to leaving twi he had done these things as a limb coordinator - twi just moved him to another state and demoted him to twig leader then branch leader. Sounds like the way priests get moved around...
OK I'm done venting for now..I better go take a nap.
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Mike
So, who sees (or WANTS to see) the 5th and 6th Elements to our law of believing.
Our understanding and ability to operate this law is limited to the fullness of our set of Elemments.
Certainly I cannot take any critics of this law seriously if their set of Elements is deficient.
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Tom Strange
As always... "me" in bold... "Mike" in regular font...
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topoftheworld
I try to stay out of doctrinal fights, because I have allowed myself a lot of time to heal, which has allowed a lot of my previous knowledge to fade. I also don't express myself as intelligently as others.
Mike, I realize you are fighting battles on several fronts. but I must tell you that you apparently didn't get my point. You patronized me instead of acknowleding the issue.
TWI says God doesn't protect you unless you BELIEVE without question. Well, bud, I became much more succesfull after I left TWI. And some of the horrifying situations that I endured while under TWI's thumb have not repeated themselves.
I can only attribute this by a simplification of my belief in a loving God. I don't need more "sentences" to do that.
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Raf
There's a shock.
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Mike
Hi topoftheworld,
Thank you for your civil manner, and noticing that I am in the middle of a complex fight.
I’ll try my best to switch gears in my addressing you.
Let’s start out by my acknowledging the pain you felt, which was what I think I dealt with in my first response to you.
As for the success part, I recognize the facts as you state them, as accurately representing many more like you. I can’t argue with what actually happened to us all, collectively.
My argument here with the others, and that I can try to more civilly apply to you is this. I firmly believe that all of us grads had drifted over the years into various sub cults within the ministry. In the early years it was real obvious that there were two main sub-cults: the jocks and the hippies. Those early boundaries blended, though, as the years went by.
Later many more sub-cults emerged, but were less visible because they were not characterized by clothing and slang and sports, but by sub-cult leaders and by their pet verbal doctrines. It was like the ministry slowly divided up into a set of denominations very subtly distinct from each other. I have given a name for the verbal doctrines the grew within these sub-cults, I call them Twi Verbal Traditions, or TVTs for short.
The TVTs differed only slightly at first from the written texts of PFAL, or the added to that text, or they omitted sections of that text.
It is my firm belief that both the pain and the lack of success you experienced was because you, like all the rest of us, were immersed not in written PFAL, but in damaging TVTs. The TVTs are close counterfeits of written PFAL, VERY close counterfeits. Only a master of the genuine can tell them apart.
After Dr died three of the sub-cults quickly pulled apart from each other, and slowly many, many others came into manifestation, but all are characterized by a slow move away from the written texts, and especially any deep mastery of them. A few are hovering around the texts, but are often distracted by the many tapes and videos in circulation. I know of precious few individuals, let alone groups, that are focused on written PFAL mastery at the deep level Dr called for.
***
That said, let me be more specific in my response.
You wrote: “I try to stay out of doctrinal fights, because I have allowed myself a lot of time to heal, which has allowed a lot of my previous knowledge to fade. I also don't express myself as intelligently as others.”
You come off very intelligent, as well as civil.
***
You wrote: “Mike, I realize you are fighting battles on several fronts. but I must tell you that you apparently didn't get my point. You patronized me instead of acknowleding the issue.”
Thank you for coming to this very disturbed doctrinal battlefield and allowing me to discuss these matters with you. If I came of as patronizing it wasn’t my intention. I thank you all the more for coming back after having that impression. I hope I’ve diffused it some above.
***
You wrote: “TWI says God doesn't protect you unless you BELIEVE without question. Well, bud, I became much more succesfull after I left TWI. And some of the horrifying situations that I endured while under TWI's thumb have not repeated themselves. __ I can only attribute this by a simplification of my belief in a loving God. I don't need more "sentences" to do that.”
Yes, when any of us are immersed in a set of TVTs, then "a simplification of my belief in a loving God" would be an improvement.
I can believe that you have enough sentences, or Elements, of God’s Word in you to help a lot in everyday living type of success.
However, if you were take that set of sentences and your simple trust in God’s love, you might have a hard time if you were to enter a MUCH more demanding arena than everyday life. If you were to take on the devil and really challenge his power over a of people, your set of sentences and your simple belief may run dry at some point. Let’s face it, sooner or later everyone’s does. If we want to challenge the devil in all the ways Jesus Christ did, we might need a more complete set of Elements as we apply the law of believing to more than everyday living, but to the most extreme challenges of life.
**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************
Tom,
Ok, now I have to switch gears back to eyeball-to-eyeball distractive combat with you.
Give me a second.
OK
You wrote: "so... you still "stand by them as true" but don't want to discuss them right now?"
Correct.
***
Now I just answered one question of a lengthy homework assignment you just gave me.
And I can see from the first reading that it’s worth a second reading and some kind of response, even though some of the things you bring up have already been dealt with on numerous occasions.
But before I respond to any more of this topic-distracting task posed by you (in your consistently interuptitudinal mode of operation), I must set your lengthy questionnaire aside and tit you for a tat.
It’s your turn to answer one of my questions. okay?
Name for me either one of the 5th and 6th Elements of the law of believing as posted on this thread by me today in those PFAL quotes above, March 2, 2006.
You have a right to interrupt, but I have a right to resist it after reasonable consideration, which I did already.
Your turn to answer.
Tom are you ready?
Just nod your head.
Ladies and gentlemen ... HE"S NODDING!
Drum roll while I open the Envelope.
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
Tom! .....
I’ve made it easier for you by trimming it down...
Either name me the 6th Element in here:
GMWD p. 18, 19
Verse 3 of Psalms 103 very plainly says, “Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all [without exception] thy diseases.” Does God forgive your sins? Well then, does God heal you? He must or He is a liar; but God is no liar. People may then question, “Well, why doesn’t God heal everybody?” Healing for all is God’s will. But when we fail to rise up to our rightful and legal privileges, due to a variety of causes—the greatest cause being a negative society where people talk about, expect, and cope with negative things—we fail to be healed. To claim and manifest God’s healing we must believe on the positives of His Word, not the negatives of the world.
...
...
...
Or, Tom, name me the 5th Element in here:
PFAL p. 28, 29
The man with the withered hand who had this tremendous need, stretched out his hand. He did the impossible. How? He believed. Believe is a verb and a verb shows action. The man believed that what Jesus said was God's will; therefore, he stretched his hand forth. Once you have the promise of God, the “how” of receiving is to believe literally what that promise says. It appeared impossible for the man to stretch out his hand. Yet this man, believing what The Word said or what God said by way of Jesus Christ, stretched it forth
TNDC p. 52
What a joy it is to belong to the Church. When we belong to the Church, we belong to the greatest and powerful body in the world; there is nothing like Church anywhere. The Church has such great power that even the gates of hell cannot prevail against it. That is why the devil cannot harm the people of the Church when they know the name of Christ and use that name, believing in it. Can you see why our prayers must be answered when we believe that Christ is in us? We can receive anything from God that He has promised in The Word if we only know and believe it. Everything that has been revealed in The Word we can thank God for, and, if we believe, it will come to pass.
TNDC p. 54
Ask yourself honestly, “Do I have the power of attorney?” You do have the right, the God-given authority, to use the name of Jesus Christ and see things come to pass. Yet for years and years people inside the fellowship of believers have seen but few positive results. Why? Just to say the name of Jesus Christ is not all that is necessary; you must believe that when you are saying it things will come to pass. All power is energized by believing and it is up to you to operate believing. Believing is action. You must know that what the Word of God says, and then act upon that Word. As you hear The Word and act upon it, God will answer your requests.
BTMS p. 37
As we act on the promises of God, they become real to us and are evidenced in our lives. Synchronize your believing and confession on the promises of God’s Word and you will manifest a more than abundant life in Christ Jesus.
BTMS p. 46
Once you start practicing the law of believing – right believing, believing God – you will find that the evil things that have been governing your life will soon fade away. God is always the victor over evil; but it is up to you to believe God and to make His will your will. __ In all the New Testament epistles, you will never find Christian believers urged to have faith; they already have faith as believers, and they are encouraged to believe God and express what they already have. __ Romans 12:3: ... according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. __ The word “believe” is a verb which connotes action. Therefore, believing the Word of God, taking the Word of God literally and acting upon it, brings results. This is the law of believing and this is the action that will bring release and victory to your life in every situation. "If thou canst believe, all things are possible [presently available] to him that believeth."
...
...
...
And what will you win, Tom?
If you can name just one of these two Elements:
It will tell me that you are capable of hearing what I say to you, sooooooo.....
(So far you have not convinced me of that, not on these PFAL text issues.)
..... If you name one Element ... I’ll spend some more quality time on your distractions from my topic.
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WordWolf
Will someone with at least an 8th grade education
explain to Mike the reason Mike's not getting
blind obedience in his homework,
nor cooperation in his endless riddles?
Will they please follow up by reminding him
of the much faster, more efficient method
he could use, which would actually increase
the chances someone might be reading his
posts?
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oldiesman
Mikes posts get read more than anyones, even mine.
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Mike
WW,
You wrote: "Will someone with at least an 8th grade education explain to Mike the reason Mike's not getting
blind obedience in his homework, nor cooperation in his endless riddles?"
Yes, I'll tell him.
Mike,
WW and Tom Strange have no intention of communicating with you on the text issues,
and only want to distract readers from doing so as well.
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Tom Strange
OK then... so just to be sure I'm clear on this... on page 26 I ask you if you still stand by/believe in these statements:
To which you reply on page 27 that I was correct in my assumption that you still stood by them as true. I really don't know what made that a "lengthy homework assignment" ...I just wanted to make sure that I was clear on "where you're coming from"....
Now as to your question... I already answered as to the fifth element. It's that thing (was it blue?) that they took out of Milla Jovovich's stomach and put in the pyramid so the alien ships could land.
Thanks for finally answering the question Mike.
OH... and Mike... once you're finished TEACHING us the LAW OF BELIEVING can you teach us about one or more of these (your) beliefs?
"PFAL is 'God's Word reissued'."
This means "we don't need any versions of the Bible anymore, only PFAL."
"PFAL is the Word of God, that the Holy Spirit has provided us with His Word in written form in PFAL, and it (PFAL) carries all the authority of God Almighty."
"Christ is currently learning from PFAL and will be teaching from PFAL materials when he returns."
"Betraying Dr's revelations is betraying God."
"You just need to feed that Christ inside with the pure Word of PFAL."
"Studying PFAL will defeat death."
Could you please? I'm thinking we need to be further enlightened as I don't think your previous teachings accomplished your goal...
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Mike
Tom,
You wrote: "Thanks for finally answering the question Mike."
Yes, and I'm thankful to myself for informing me on your lack of any willingness to communicate.
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Tom Strange
You know... like that last one... "Studying PFAL will defeat death"... how come veepee died? He wrote the stuff...
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Mike
Here Tom, I'll prepare your next post for you.
..............................paste here..................................
Viewing Board Index
Two can play that Game!
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Tom Strange
Mike... you are assuming that there were actually interested readers to be distracted...
Haven't you noticed that the "Law of Believing" discussion on this the PFAL thread had become rather "circular"?
I think it's time that we started/reopened the discussions of the PFAL claims listed below:
"PFAL is 'God's Word reissued'."
This means "we don't need any versions of the Bible anymore, only PFAL."
"PFAL is the Word of God, that the Holy Spirit has provided us with His Word in written form in PFAL, and it (PFAL) carries all the authority of God Almighty."
"Christ is currently learning from PFAL and will be teaching from PFAL materials when he returns."
"Betraying Dr's revelations is betraying God."
"You just need to feed that Christ inside with the pure Word of PFAL."
"Studying PFAL will defeat death."
Will you please teach us about those?
Mike, why are you reluctant to teach us on these things?
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WordWolf
Not lately. His current readership rating's plummeted.
He USED to get a lot of strangers wandering in to look at
the sideshow/ ten-in-one, but not lately.
And, apparently, he just illustrated again why someone with at
least an 8th grade reading level-or better-
needs to give him a few tips.
I mean, he was unable to understand even a SHORT,
STRAIGHTFORWARD post without missing 1/2 the content...
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Tom Strange
Aw c'mon Mikey... come back and play... don't take your toys and go home!
Let's talk about some of those ideas of yours... just because we don't agree on them doesn't mean we can't talk about them... no need to get mad about it...
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topoftheworld
We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
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Mike
topoftheworld,
It’s good to see you retaining your sense of humor in the midst of all this. I often have one-on-one conversations with people like you in the midst of food-fights like this here at the Cafe. We could continue if you like.
I know my 5th Element Game Show is not succeeding in getting any players, but I’m not surprised. The attempts to shut down my message are continual and have lasted 3 years now. But every now and then I get to have civil discourse with posters like you.
Have you followed the discussion from far back enough to know what the Elements are in my Game Show?
Elements are small pieces of doctrine regarding the law of believing as taught in written PFAL, but which were sometimes conspicuously missing in TVTs.
I’m trying to show here that most of the criticisms of PFAL’s written law of believing are actually valid criticisms of the TVTs. These TVTs simply omitted crucial elements of Dr’s teaching, and that’s where some of the pain and lack of success in our later ministry experiences stem from.
So, would you like to participate in extracting one or two more Elemental sentences from the block of purple font PFAL paragraphs I posted several posts back, which sum up a crucial element of the law of believing?
The purple block of PFAL paragraphs is in post #531, in the section addressed to Tom, right after that section addressed to you.
By the way, did the TVT explanation make sense to you in that same post #531?
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Tom Strange
awwww Mike....
...and you say your posts are not about you... Mike, you're too modest... you don't give yourself enough credit...
And Mike... really... you always characterize yourself as being in a fight with me... all I've ever done is question you about the bizarre (to me) statements you make... isn't that allowed?
You know... when you make the statements, claiming they are "truth", that you make in these forums, well... wouldn't you expect some questions? I wouldn't call it a fight... it's simply a discourse... it takes two people to fight... I just ask you about your bizarre (to me) "truths"...
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Oakspear
Nice racket
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Mike
Oakspear,
It's easy to play.
Just read the pruple block of quotes about 15 posts above (previous page, post #531)
and pull out an Element of the law of believing.
The hard part is reading the quotes.
No rules!
Honest!
***************************************************
***************************************************
***************************************************
***************************************************
Tom,
You wrote: "I just ask you about your bizarre (to me) "truths"..."
You don’t ask with a goal of learning anything new.
You ask with a goal to obfuscate the current discussion.
You don’t listen to my answers when I give them;
you only look in them for more ways to hang me up and stall the current conversation.
Prove me wrong by playing the jointly operated GSC Community Game Show
and finding the 5th Element and the 6th Element from the purple block of text.
You won’t be able to play
unless you read my posts FOR COMPREHENSION for the past several pages,
instead of reading them for STRATEGURY.
I know this means asking a lot of you, reading my posts for comprehension, but give it a try.
If you ever want me to communicate with you on the quirky things
you have to communicate with me on what is at hand a little.
So far you haven’t.
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Mike
Well Tom, I just wanted you to know that I have learned new things from you.
I also have learned from WW. Both of you have taught me the Power of the Paste.
You taught me with your “Mike Synopsiseses” of context stripped quotes from months and years ago,
and WW with his Brute Force Commentary Tank (BFCT) trampling down a re-pasting of every line I write.
I think it's time for a re-paste of that Purple Block of Text
that so many posters are so insistent on not reading and not commenting on.
Hey, let's change the color to green, though.
I think the purple is hard to read.
Green looks easier.
Maybe that's why no one would read it.
People like you, Tom, shouldn’t have to constantly go back numerous pages
to ignore the Purple Block of Text.
You should have the convenience of ignoring it right in front of you.
For the prizes mentioned in previous posts,
please, name the 6th Element in here:
GMWD p. 18, 19
Verse 3 of Psalms 103 very plainly says, “Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all [without exception] thy diseases.” Does God forgive your sins? Well then, does God heal you? He must or He is a liar; but God is no liar. People may then question, “Well, why doesn’t God heal everybody?” Healing for all is God’s will. But when we fail to rise up to our rightful and legal privileges, due to a variety of causes—the greatest cause being a negative society where people talk about, expect, and cope with negative things—we fail to be healed. To claim and manifest God’s healing we must believe on the positives of His Word, not the negatives of the world.
OR
please, name the 5th Element in here:
PFAL p. 28, 29
The man with the withered hand who had this tremendous need, stretched out his hand. He did the impossible. How? He believed. Believe is a verb and a verb shows action. The man believed that what Jesus said was God's will; therefore, he stretched his hand forth. Once you have the promise of God, the “how” of receiving is to believe literally what that promise says. It appeared impossible for the man to stretch out his hand. Yet this man, believing what The Word said or what God said by way of Jesus Christ, stretched it forth
TNDC p. 52
What a joy it is to belong to the Church. When we belong to the Church, we belong to the greatest and powerful body in the world; there is nothing like Church anywhere. The Church has such great power that even the gates of hell cannot prevail against it. That is why the devil cannot harm the people of the Church when they know the name of Christ and use that name, believing in it. Can you see why our prayers must be answered when we believe that Christ is in us? We can receive anything from God that He has promised in The Word if we only know and believe it. Everything that has been revealed in The Word we can thank God for, and, if we believe, it will come to pass.
TNDC p. 54
Ask yourself honestly, “Do I have the power of attorney?” You do have the right, the God-given authority, to use the name of Jesus Christ and see things come to pass. Yet for years and years people inside the fellowship of believers have seen but few positive results. Why? Just to say the name of Jesus Christ is not all that is necessary; you must believe that when you are saying it things will come to pass. All power is energized by believing and it is up to you to operate believing. Believing is action. You must know that what the Word of God says, and then act upon that Word. As you hear The Word and act upon it, God will answer your requests.
BTMS p. 37
As we act on the promises of God, they become real to us and are evidenced in our lives. Synchronize your believing and confession on the promises of God’s Word and you will manifest a more than abundant life in Christ Jesus.
BTMS p. 46
Once you start practicing the law of believing – right believing, believing God – you will find that the evil things that have been governing your life will soon fade away. God is always the victor over evil; but it is up to you to believe God and to make His will your will. __ In all the New Testament epistles, you will never find Christian believers urged to have faith; they already have faith as believers, and they are encouraged to believe God and express what they already have. __ Romans 12:3: ... according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. __ The word “believe” is a verb which connotes action. Therefore, believing the Word of God, taking the Word of God literally and acting upon it, brings results. This is the law of believing and this is the action that will bring release and victory to your life in every situation. "If thou canst believe, all things are possible [presently available] to him that believeth."
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Mike
I just found another passage of text to add to the 5th Element block above.
Can I see a show of hands:
how many people want me to add this new passage to help in finding the 5th Element?
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Mike
Almost forgot.
Here are the first Four Elements for the law of believing:
1) Believing equals receiving.
2) Confession of belief yields receipt of confession.
3) Turning our believing toward the promises of God, limiting ourselves to the “Available List.”
4) Seeking to make our believing greater, like the centurion’s.
What the Hey!
doojable !
What does the 5th Element look like to you?
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doojable
Ok, Ok i'll give in
I can't seem to find all the things you all are talking about because I lack the patience and the time to go through all the muck and mire but here sre two things I dont' recall seeing:
1. Get needs and wants parallel ( My pet peeve as I will discuss later.)
2. Act. Act on the Word. The man with the withered hand acted on the promise.
Granted this is PFAL speak. I believe that there is much more and yet much less to "believing than this. How do you define and formulate a deep heart issue? This all seems rather Pharisee-like to me.
While in residence, D^ve B*d^rd said something that made sense. He said that God's ideas were man's ideals. A man might NEED a car but he WANTS a Porsche ( yea, and I want a million dollars and a flat stomach!)
Now I realize that Dr said that each man must determine his need in his own heart with the renewed mind ( This came from a quote supplied to me in a PM.) This really sets my teeth on edge. Just how did vpw get it into his RENEWED MIND that he NEEDED and WANTED young Corps girls.
You can't justify this from the Word - but yet if a person is so dishonest with himself that he fools himself into believing that he has a real need and that this is a renewed mind effort - well all sorts of sin get justified.
Too many holes, not enough GOD.
I may not have been as coherent as I can be - I'm in the middle of a really busy time. I probably shouldn't have posted - but ...well - sue me.
Oh and Mike - yes ist was a reverend that did all that stuff I mentioned - and more. He was a "favorite son" of sorts to vpw and he had learned well how to get people to doo all the work while he got all the glory and collected the abs he used to buy land and horses for his kids - now tell me THAT was a need! ( Along with the marriages he ruined and the women he defiled and the lies he told.) He learned that behavior and he was allowed to practice it. Previous to leaving twi he had done these things as a limb coordinator - twi just moved him to another state and demoted him to twig leader then branch leader. Sounds like the way priests get moved around...
OK I'm done venting for now..I better go take a nap.
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