It has been my recent experience that those who are very solid Wierwille believers (not necessarily "Word" believers) tend in most part to "mark and avoid" those who do not take to his foundational doctrine and openly discuss or disagree with it.
While it is not called "mark and avoid", it is still the same behavior. I have to keep my mind off of it because it is hard. Even old friends that are still into Wierwille cut me off, refusing to email me or fellowship.
Total silence.
This does not "shame" me into coming back. It gets me angrier. I can't say the rest agree or disagree here, but it makes me want to look at Wierwille and say to him, "THIS is the EXAMPLE you set? THIS is what you taught? Did you set out on purpose to elevate yourself as a god to most people or what? Because it seems to have worked. You are not my God."
Then I just want to throw Wierwille and all his teachings out with the bathwater. I could care less now what Wierwille's followers think or believe after being treated like this.
Some ambassadors these people turned out to be.
I will continue to agree or disagree with Wierwille where and when I feel it is appropriate. If I am "heathen", fine. If I am a heretic, fine. But at least I kept my mind independent of being ruled by an image. They are REALLY going to not like what I write about next. Funny thing, though, I have more respect for TWI in this regard. They may have been callous toward the Wierwille family and I did not like that, but at least they seemed to have dropped the image.
Well, maybe in favor of a newer image, burt they dropped the Wierwille god concept.
Eagle.
Interesting observation Eagle. The Wierwillites, at least most of the one's I've known are very much as you describe, real loving aren't they? Not!
Gee, almost like they have a dogmatic adherance to dubious blather.
Funny, I noticed the same thing - in a markedly reduced degree, but there all the same - from my former "Christian" friends when they found out that I was an agnostic. Hell, that was even the excuse my wife used for taking her leave.
"Don't share my superstition?" "Well, I can't be seen with YOU!"
It has been my recent experience that those who are very solid Wierwille believers (not necessarily "Word" believers) tend in most part to "mark and avoid" those who do not take to his foundational doctrine and openly discuss or disagree with it.
True. Here in Minney-soda, there is just such a group. They have a *farm*, it's called the *grounds*, the man in charge has his phone lines open from 6 am to midnight, to *take care of his people*.
Castigate docvic, and he will hang up. But you're welcome to come for Sunday morning fellowship (10:30 am), when you can (supposedly) talk about anything. RIGHT!!!
Ironically -- (you all may get a kick out of this) -- I passed this man's phone number on to Mike, and Mike got hold of him, and now this group up here is really considering *doc's last lost teaching*, from what I have heard.
I got profuse thanks from Mike for letting him know about this group. My puter crashed (totally), and I lost ALL info I had on it a coupla months ago (including this group's name, and phone number), but I also heard that they *sponsored* D*an *ll*nwood to come up here from Austin Tx, to do concerts here in the Mpls. area.
While all might be welcome at their fellowships, concerts, etc. --- don't ya dare say anything bad about docvic.
Bear in mind that people in clubs, fellowships, associations etc.. like to 'hang' with like-minded people as well.Thats the main reason behind their associations.
For example you don't join a Harley Davidson club with a Honda and expect other members to go ga-ga over your Honda CB 250 !!
You either buy a Harley or aspire to buy one or join a Honda enthusiasts club.
Bear in mind that people in clubs, fellowships, associations etc.. like to 'hang' with like-minded people as well.Thats the main reason behind their associations.
For example you don't join a Harley Davidson club with a Honda and expect other members to go ga-ga over your Honda CB 250 !!
You either buy a Harley or aspire to buy one or join a Honda enthusiasts club.
Granted,
but, that having been said,
there is a fundamental difference in your example and what we're
discussing about shunning.
I've got hobbies. I occasionally "talk shop" with people who
have the same hobbies. In fact, I can get so hobby-specific that
our discussions can leave normal non-fan(atics) people bewildered
by the strange language we speak.
However,
I don't shun people without the same hobbies.
Some of my friends have ZERO hobbies in common with me.
Some Christians I respect and associate with are in different
denominations-from me AND each other.
We never shut the door on learning from each other,
even when we disagree.
Of course, there are some people who DO.
I'm not speaking for them. This is fair, since they're not only
not speaking for me, they're not speaking TO me, either.
====
Oh, and, AFAIK,
bikers who SWEAR by Harleys are still able to appreciate
Just for the record I talk to Dean periodically as we carry his music in the bookstore. I'd have to say Dean is his "own man so to speak". He see his music as a ministry and I think he does it well. Before he would come anywhere he would spend time in consideration and discussion if it was the right thing to do. This I know from personal experience. I also know that if he felt it was the thing he should do he would do it regardless if anyone would or could pay him to do so. He has no desire to be a performer doing a show, he sees his music as a chance to minister to God's people. I suppose If you think that happens or not is a matter of opinion, but I have to say I appreciate his efforts to do what he does best. I think it shows through in the quality of his music.
It is good to know their are Wierwille believers out there that keep an independent mind and agree to disagree, and still remain friends and sometimes fellowship.
Unfortunately, this is not my experience. I wish I could say I had that experience.
I suppose it's like ignoring part of your family. Cutting them off only hurts both of you and it's juvenile behavior. We don't ever really cut ourselves off from those we love (if we ever really loved them).
Some people may say I'm a Wierwille-ite in that I still enjoy his teachings and find that they are full of truth. I am so thankful for his life and ministry because it was PFAL that finally taught me how to research and understand the Bible. He was never a god to me, but my Father in the Word, and I will always love him for that. I think he would hate people making a god out of him because he taught against that so often. It's just a pity that so many people magnify the negatives in his life above the Word that he taught. He died, but the truth he taught never will.
It's far more difficult to say "his lecherous abuse of those who trusted him, the way he twisted God's Word to serve his lusts, the dishonest way he handled God's Word from the beginning of his ministry until the end."
Welcome to the Cafe. Does your handle mean what it sounds like it means?
I posted a reply, but it did not show up. I guess I'm still too new at this.
The gist of it was, despite all his imperfections, I am still thankful for what I learned from him and always will be. It was through PFAL that I finally learned how to develop an intimate relationship with God. I can't imagaine life without it.
Yes, Mrs. Sudo I am. Thanks for the welcome. My husband spends so much time here, I thought I'd drop in for a while and get to know his on-line freinds. I've met several when we've traveled to places they live. Like everyone I've met so far.
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Interesting observation Eagle. The Wierwillites, at least most of the one's I've known are very much as you describe, real loving aren't they? Not!
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George Aar
Gee, almost like they have a dogmatic adherance to dubious blather.
Funny, I noticed the same thing - in a markedly reduced degree, but there all the same - from my former "Christian" friends when they found out that I was an agnostic. Hell, that was even the excuse my wife used for taking her leave.
"Don't share my superstition?" "Well, I can't be seen with YOU!"
It seems like a pretty human trait...
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TheInvisibleDan
Yeah, so much for that "unconditional," neverending love, forgiveness and "Peace Train" crap.
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dmiller
True. Here in Minney-soda, there is just such a group. They have a *farm*, it's called the *grounds*, the man in charge has his phone lines open from 6 am to midnight, to *take care of his people*.
Castigate docvic, and he will hang up. But you're welcome to come for Sunday morning fellowship (10:30 am), when you can (supposedly) talk about anything. RIGHT!!!
Ironically -- (you all may get a kick out of this) -- I passed this man's phone number on to Mike, and Mike got hold of him, and now this group up here is really considering *doc's last lost teaching*, from what I have heard.
I got profuse thanks from Mike for letting him know about this group. My puter crashed (totally), and I lost ALL info I had on it a coupla months ago (including this group's name, and phone number), but I also heard that they *sponsored* D*an *ll*nwood to come up here from Austin Tx, to do concerts here in the Mpls. area.
While all might be welcome at their fellowships, concerts, etc. --- don't ya dare say anything bad about docvic.
They are Wierwille based, not Word based.
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WordWolf
Sounds like you have no communications with this group at present.
From whom, then, have you heard they are "really considering" this?
Would it be a less-than-objective source known for...alternative
interpretations of events, text and people?
Do you really KNOW they're considering this?
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allan w.
Bear in mind that people in clubs, fellowships, associations etc.. like to 'hang' with like-minded people as well.Thats the main reason behind their associations.
For example you don't join a Harley Davidson club with a Honda and expect other members to go ga-ga over your Honda CB 250 !!
You either buy a Harley or aspire to buy one or join a Honda enthusiasts club.
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WordWolf
Granted,
but, that having been said,
there is a fundamental difference in your example and what we're
discussing about shunning.
I've got hobbies. I occasionally "talk shop" with people who
have the same hobbies. In fact, I can get so hobby-specific that
our discussions can leave normal non-fan(atics) people bewildered
by the strange language we speak.
However,
I don't shun people without the same hobbies.
Some of my friends have ZERO hobbies in common with me.
Some Christians I respect and associate with are in different
denominations-from me AND each other.
We never shut the door on learning from each other,
even when we disagree.
Of course, there are some people who DO.
I'm not speaking for them. This is fair, since they're not only
not speaking for me, they're not speaking TO me, either.
====
Oh, and, AFAIK,
bikers who SWEAR by Harleys are still able to appreciate
Hondas and others. :)
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hiway29
I'm curious if the 'farm' dmiller is referring to in Minnesota is the one run by M**k Fr***z*k.
I know they are staunch Weirwilleites. They have also sold the property within the last year or so, and are back to running household fellowships.
And since I brought his name up, I must add that in my experience, M**k is a fine fellow, honorable, and steadfast in his life ,family, and work.
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WhiteDove
Just for the record I talk to Dean periodically as we carry his music in the bookstore. I'd have to say Dean is his "own man so to speak". He see his music as a ministry and I think he does it well. Before he would come anywhere he would spend time in consideration and discussion if it was the right thing to do. This I know from personal experience. I also know that if he felt it was the thing he should do he would do it regardless if anyone would or could pay him to do so. He has no desire to be a performer doing a show, he sees his music as a chance to minister to God's people. I suppose If you think that happens or not is a matter of opinion, but I have to say I appreciate his efforts to do what he does best. I think it shows through in the quality of his music.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
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hiway29
coolchef-as far as I know, he's never been in Maine.
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Eagle
It is good to know their are Wierwille believers out there that keep an independent mind and agree to disagree, and still remain friends and sometimes fellowship.
Unfortunately, this is not my experience. I wish I could say I had that experience.
Eagle
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waterbuffalo
Eagle,
I suppose it's like ignoring part of your family. Cutting them off only hurts both of you and it's juvenile behavior. We don't ever really cut ourselves off from those we love (if we ever really loved them).
wb
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excathedra
you can talk badly about wierwille to a point here, even, but only so far.... even if it's the truth
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Suda
Some people may say I'm a Wierwille-ite in that I still enjoy his teachings and find that they are full of truth. I am so thankful for his life and ministry because it was PFAL that finally taught me how to research and understand the Bible. He was never a god to me, but my Father in the Word, and I will always love him for that. I think he would hate people making a god out of him because he taught against that so often. It's just a pity that so many people magnify the negatives in his life above the Word that he taught. He died, but the truth he taught never will.
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Raf
It's so easy to say "the negatives in his life."
It's far more difficult to say "his lecherous abuse of those who trusted him, the way he twisted God's Word to serve his lusts, the dishonest way he handled God's Word from the beginning of his ministry until the end."
Welcome to the Cafe. Does your handle mean what it sounds like it means?
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Suda
I posted a reply, but it did not show up. I guess I'm still too new at this.
The gist of it was, despite all his imperfections, I am still thankful for what I learned from him and always will be. It was through PFAL that I finally learned how to develop an intimate relationship with God. I can't imagaine life without it.
My handle means sudo is mine, and I am his.
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Raf
That's what I thought it meant. A hearty welcome!
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dmiller
Mrs. Sudo???
Regardless -- Welcome to the site. :)
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Suda
Yes, Mrs. Sudo I am. Thanks for the welcome. My husband spends so much time here, I thought I'd drop in for a while and get to know his on-line freinds. I've met several when we've traveled to places they live. Like everyone I've met so far.
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Raf
This calls for coffee!
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dmiller
:) :) :)
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dmiller
Wait a minute -- that isn't coffee.
It has *pollutants* on top of it --
like pizza with pineapple!
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Bluzeman
Hey there SudoSuda! Glad to see you here!
Rick
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