No More "Mark And Avoid" in TWI??

[dek52]

The best thing that ever happened to me was to be put on probation. I was trying to keep my marriage together and was blamed for being put on probation even though it was the wife who turned out to be bi-polar and sever other problems.

After working the areas that I was told to work on, I realized that they are the ones who needed to work the word in the areas that I was told tol So I stopped all contact with TWI and the so caled friends.

I ran a fellowship the last year I was in and it was the ony one that had nay joy in the branch so they decided to stop our fellwoship and combine it with the branch leaders and then it was all down hill from there.

I am the father of 3 wonderful kids and I am blessed with the friends that I got in contact with after the S&&t hit the fan per say. My kids have seen a change in me and in themselves since leaving and they are much better off. They work real hard in school and are allowed to do things that they never would have been able to if I had stayed with the twi bulls&&t.

I will never go back and I will never pass up the opportunity to talk to the so called friends when I run into them in the store. I will even go out of my way to say hi to them and let them know life is better for me outside of twi.

This website has helped me in so many ways.

[J0nny Ling0]

Thanks Cool Chef, and it was thee reminder of the lobsters that brought me back! Cheers!

[coolchef1248 @adelphia.net]

nice to see ya jonny

[socks]

Thanks outintexas. Didn't mean to get too personal there. Appreciate your response.

Debt - that Debt Policy (which they now are said to deny ever existed) - was/is one of the biggest debacles of the last 20 years. Gets the award for "Worst Advice To People Planning For Their Future", hands down. And to to deny people the only thing of any dependable worth that the Way really has to offer - the local fellowship - sucks. It's just plain stupid.

What would it be about being in debt - with a home mortgage - that would have such bad ramifications on a local group of people that you'd have to cut someone out of coming to it for having one? Makes no sense.

Rowdy misbehavin' teenagers built the Way's foundation of membership, since Day One of the Great Expansion. That's nothing new. If that's grounds for getting the boot, Howard Allen should be working at Home Depot. They're a bunch of hypocrites. If you're High Up enough in the bureaucra-zy you get consideration, slack, the blind eye. Everybody else has to follow the "rules".

Best thing about getting Out - the celebration of life you get to live everyday.

[ex10]

Well, and here is the really ultra-stupid thing.

Hubby and I ran his family's business for a long time. It was, uh, let's say, very profitable. We left our "climbing the way tree, mode" to go run the biz in the late 80's.

We were very successful, thank you. Lord.

We made alot of money, but at the same time, we had alot of debt. (We did a couple of commercial building projects and yeah, had to borrow the money to do it.) Like, how can one be successful at business, and not have debt?

I never did figure that one out. So, if you want to be in TWI, and yet compete in the marketplace, and run a successful business, you're out?

It's beyond idiotic.

[justloafing]

Yes, the whole dept thing makes no sence at all.There is good dept and then there is bad dept. I remember them saying how credit card dept was of the devil. EXCUSE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Credit card dept can save you money if you work it right. Pay your bills with a credit card while your money earns intrest for a month then pay off the credit card. Talk about not thinking outside of the box.

These people were and are so stupid. Sort of makes you feel bad that we were duped by such ego maniacs. No wonder twi is a shell of what it once was. Stupid decisions by leadership harmed so many people.

Edited February 5, 2006 by justloafing

[Eagle]

TWI still needs to correct a lot of other doctrine. They need to literally dump all classes by lcm, research all that material again by themseves with credible people that do research, should any be left. and do their own classes up again, this time each class taught my a different person so the MOG or WOG concept dwindles. They should give up tithing as a requirement and make it a recommendation and be pleased with any offering they get. They need to make people feel much more welcome at HQ like in the seventies and early to mid-eighties instead of the treatment after that making people feel like bugs for visiting or asking for a bunk for the night that the believers pay for out of their own money anyway.

They need to drop name tags as rank. The place was so anal the last I had anything to do with it. In those days, you could have taken a lump of coal and stuck it up any Corps person's a** and a diamond would have popped out.

Eagle :blink:

[outofdafog]

Our fellow$*@! coordinators were always lauded to the sky for being completely out of debt. Their home and vehicles were all paid for. SHE HAD GOTTEN AN NHERITANCE. Come on, were we all to believe for someone to die and leave us alot of money to pay off our debts. Using them as the exception to the rule always fried my bacon.

[Oakspear]

Our fellow$*@! coordinators were always lauded to the sky for being completely out of debt. Their home and vehicles were all paid for. SHE HAD GOTTEN AN NHERITANCE. Come on, were we all to believe for someone to die and leave us alot of money to pay off our debts. Using them as the exception to the rule always fried my bacon.

We had one of those, too. The guy was a pretty good businessman, but he got his home, and the majority share in a family farm, because his parents died in a car wreck. Always irked me

[Belle]

Us too! The independently wealthy in our area were promoted around and held up to us as examples of living debt free - but most people did not know that these couples had huge inheritances and trust funds. Dirty rotten scoundrels misleading us and making people feel like crap for not living up to the impossible standards set by TWI since "they" had.

[dmiller]

We had one of those, too. The guy was a pretty good businessman, but he got his home, and the majority share in a family farm, because his parents died in a car wreck. Always irked me

And you know what killed those parents????

God didn't kill those parents!

It was BELIEVING! God didn't need another rose petal or two in Heavan,

Buttttttttt --- He did need another believer standing *debt free* for Him

as an example of what can be accomplished.

Strange are the ways of the Lord. One can only stand in awe of the wisdom propounded from a cornfield.

Another testimomy to the truth of the *prevailing* whatever-the-hell-they-are-calling-it-now.

(edited to remove photo -- that twi most likely has copy*right*ed)

Edited February 6, 2006 by dmiller

[Patriot]

Another thread to begin on finances later, but......

One thing that I noticed is they never taught "HOW" to financially prosper

and live outside of debt. They still, to this day, just teach that it is wrong,

and punish people for being in debt (no Advanced Class, leadership roles, etc.)

Even VPW (whether you like him or not) shared in his PFAL class about the

alcoholic that came to church to find out HOW to get out of what he was in, rather

than just hearing about what he was in is wrong.

It's been YEARS since they started this standard to adhere to - yet they have not

loved their people enough to teach them HOW to prosper in their way. Unloving,

unwise, unkind, and unconcerned. Why not inspire their people with thousands of

victory sharings in The Way Rag with others who "believed" and now own houses

debt free.

Another thing (again, I was saving much of this up for a new thread)...again, not to

get into a doctrinal dispute per se, but if they so loved and cared about their people

why not help them to set up the next generations with financial abundance so that

the next generation doesn't have to live like gypsies, bedouins, and nomads? Since

the people who seem to be well off are due to inheritance, why not teach about

leaving an inheritance?

Proverbs 13:22

"A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of

the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just."

Now that would be prudent....and patriotic!

[rhino]

Us too! The independently wealthy in our area were promoted around and held up to us as examples of living debt free - but most people did not know that these couples had huge inheritances and trust funds. Dirty rotten scoundrels misleading us and making people feel like crap for not living up to the impossible standards set by TWI since "they" had.

Makes me wonder about the two corps that "believed" for a ride to LEAD in a plane ... they hitched at the airport ... yeah right LOL

[Bramble]

I guess it was all over the US--we knew people who had trust funds and huge inheritances being lauded in the area we lived in, too.

I remember telling my husband that it was alot easier to live on 50k a year when you have 265k in the bank, the lovely brick executive home and two newer cars are paid off, and there really is no such thing as a financial emergency, ya know?

Everybody acted like these folks were great believers, and why couldn't we do that well? Because we stunk at believing.

Oh, and neither one of us had a grandfather who was one of the richest men in the STATE.

[penguin]

If I remember correctly, when I listened to my audio tape of the anniversary this past year, there was a mention made during one of the LOOOONNNNGGG BOOOORRRRIIINNNGGG teachings that twi has taught believers how to go to college without going in debt and how to buy cars without going in debt and that they have started to share with the believers how to buy homes without going into debt.

:blink: :blink: :blink:

My reaction was.......yeah right! If you count kids getting scholarships as the way to get thru college. And I have never heard any official teaching or comments on cars or homes except save up the $$. It's near impossible to save up enough $$$ for a new car or a house when you already have to pay so much for rent and car repairs!

[rhino]

Actually, as I remember the Uncle Harry rule was that the only thing worth going in debt for was a house.

College has gotten so expensive you almost have to borrow .. not sure it is worth it anymore sometimes ... and used cars are fine if you can't pay cash for new. Some business requires debt I would think ... I've never been in debt ... and I can live on MUCH less than $50k/year but kids are expensive, I missed out on that ...

[Patriot]

Ah yes, Uncle Harry!

When I was still in twi, I earnestly (pardon the pun) went to his book (which to be honest, I

had not read yet) to see how he stood against going into debt, etc.

First - he went to school in Lima in debt to his own father.

After which, he went into more debts for his businesses. He even goes into detail explaining

how lenders wanted their interest, etc.

Finally...to top it all off, Uncle Harry said that God had given him revelation to actually GO INTO

DEBT in order to remodel the Wierwille family home, and gave an amount he did it for.

According to twi's own teaching (again, not to dispute doctrine too much), God gives revelation

that NEVER contradicts the written Word, but rather only supercedes it. If debt is wrong

Biblically and is the terrible sin that twi makes it out to be, then why is the original treasurer of

twi stating in his own autobiography that it was God who gave him revelation to go into debt.

That seems like contradiction, and not superceding to me. I would just LOVE an answer on

that one from twi. For those still in, consider this and see if you can come up with an answer.

Can you all just imagine if dozens....hundreds...thousands of people started asking about that?

My prediction is that the book Uncle Harry would then be pulled from twi's bookstore, and eventually those sections would be edited out in a new, "Prevailing Word" edition.

Freedom to think free....now that is patriotic, eh?

Edited February 7, 2006 by Patriot