OMG I knew it deep down inside...I just couldn`t put it all into words.
AUGH I cannot BELIEVE that we were such pawns.....that our youthfull altruism ...our selfless efforts our money our time our very lives were given 100 percent believing that we were sacrificing ....striving for a noble cause....... all taken twisted and instead molded into something ugly and toxic.
An impressive, if somewhat impenetrable, body of work, jkboehm.
Can you put Hyde's message into your own concise [brief, cogent, lucid, un-bracketed] post, for those of us with acute attention deficit?
The most resonant point for me might be called "commitment breeds commitment." I forget which point it was, and can't find it now. There were those individuals in TWI whose commitment made my own far stronger. I can't deny it.
I think it indicates why TWI disintegrated. The original leaders were steely in their dedication. It was fresh, they were hell-bent on building TWI. Followers were drawn by their example.
In time they grew lazy, gave in to temptations. Newer "leadership" was immature and self-serving, or in other words, Way Corps. The less possessed of self-discipline they became, the more disciplinarian toward others. Followers remained faithful imitators, shifting priorities self-ward as their leaders did, increasingly alienated by the heavy-handed authorities ordained by "Trustees" to rule over them.
Had Vic Wierwille's ministry been legitimate, it would have been a shame. But the reverse was true. The disintegration of discipline at the top gave us the pause, and the permission, to see things clearly, maybe for the first time in quite a while.
quote: is that we have essentially nothing to show for our TWI servitude except for the psychological & emotional wounds (damages) with which TWI has so disgracefully left us.
Speak for yourself. Don't any of you people ever get any prayers answered?
I think a great point made was, most of us in the early days did come directly from Doop's or Heefner's ministry, not VPW's ministry. In fact, without them, I doubt VP would have made much impact at all. I just cannot see us little hippies following a 50 something year old guy. VP was smart and used the men with true ministries, Doop and Heefner to build his ministry for him, then co-opted it.
Absolutely Sunesis, it is the only thing that makes any sense. This certainly explains the baffeling contradictions in our experiences. How our experiences could start out as relatively pleasant and invariable grow very bad....also how a group that could present such a wholesom spiritual front....behind the scenes betray it`s participants with such cruelty.
...most of us in the early days did come directly from Doop's or Heefner's ministry, not VPW's ministry. In fact, without them, I doubt VP would have made much impact at all.
Absolutely. I had not even heard much about Victor Wierwille until close to the time I took the PFAL class in 1972. All my exposure to the Way was from the people who came weekly from Westchester County and south to visit our fellowship.
I can pretty much guarantee I would not have taken a bible class which was primarily presented to me by a middle-aged preacher. It was the enthusiasm, clarity, commitment, and sureness of people at or near my own age that sold me.
In fact, when I took the class (presented on a reel-to-reel Wolensak tape player), I was kind of put off by Wierwille's preachy style of speaking.
You hit the nail on the head: a good synopsis of much of the thread would indeed be, ‘commitment breeds commitment.’
It can be utilized for good or evil. I would now love to use some of my funky brackets but I will exercise self-control in all disciplined training, and simply state that TWI by far & away chose the latter course of action/conduct/practice/deed/behavior. TWI’s approach in its utilization of ‘commitment’ was a matter of exploitative manipulation.
johniam ... I agree. I still often get prayers answered ... something that never happened before I learned what I learned about the Bible, God, etc. in TWI. That doesn't negate the AWFUL things that happened to people in TWI ... but yeah, I think one of the saddest things I see/read is when people can no longer go to God with humility, love, trust, and thankfulness for what He did for them because of the hurt they experienced in TWI. Then they don't get their prayers answered ... sometimes don't even bother to pray any more because the hurt is so deep.
God was God before TWI and He is still God now....and not the legalistic, spit in your face if you don't tithe God that was sometimes preached to us.
Makes me think of Cliff Adelman's song: "Open your heart and just give Christ a try, he's in love with you, he arose to set you on high..." Not just a salvation song by any means.
I'm NOT trying to say people who have been hurt should just "get over it." I AM saying that God is so much bigger than any hurt that man/woman/organization (no matter how corrupt) can do unto you that it is worth another try (at praying to God) for the many that have been hurt by TWI.
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rascal
Whew....THAT is amazing.
OMG I knew it deep down inside...I just couldn`t put it all into words.
AUGH I cannot BELIEVE that we were such pawns.....that our youthfull altruism ...our selfless efforts our money our time our very lives were given 100 percent believing that we were sacrificing ....striving for a noble cause....... all taken twisted and instead molded into something ugly and toxic.
Damn them.....
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satori001
An impressive, if somewhat impenetrable, body of work, jkboehm.
Can you put Hyde's message into your own concise [brief, cogent, lucid, un-bracketed] post, for those of us with acute attention deficit?
The most resonant point for me might be called "commitment breeds commitment." I forget which point it was, and can't find it now. There were those individuals in TWI whose commitment made my own far stronger. I can't deny it.
I think it indicates why TWI disintegrated. The original leaders were steely in their dedication. It was fresh, they were hell-bent on building TWI. Followers were drawn by their example.
In time they grew lazy, gave in to temptations. Newer "leadership" was immature and self-serving, or in other words, Way Corps. The less possessed of self-discipline they became, the more disciplinarian toward others. Followers remained faithful imitators, shifting priorities self-ward as their leaders did, increasingly alienated by the heavy-handed authorities ordained by "Trustees" to rule over them.
Had Vic Wierwille's ministry been legitimate, it would have been a shame. But the reverse was true. The disintegration of discipline at the top gave us the pause, and the permission, to see things clearly, maybe for the first time in quite a while.
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johniam
quote: is that we have essentially nothing to show for our TWI servitude except for the psychological & emotional wounds (damages) with which TWI has so disgracefully left us.
Speak for yourself. Don't any of you people ever get any prayers answered?
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Sunesis
I think a great point made was, most of us in the early days did come directly from Doop's or Heefner's ministry, not VPW's ministry. In fact, without them, I doubt VP would have made much impact at all. I just cannot see us little hippies following a 50 something year old guy. VP was smart and used the men with true ministries, Doop and Heefner to build his ministry for him, then co-opted it.
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rascal
Absolutely Sunesis, it is the only thing that makes any sense. This certainly explains the baffeling contradictions in our experiences. How our experiences could start out as relatively pleasant and invariable grow very bad....also how a group that could present such a wholesom spiritual front....behind the scenes betray it`s participants with such cruelty.
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Kevlar2000
Absolutely. I had not even heard much about Victor Wierwille until close to the time I took the PFAL class in 1972. All my exposure to the Way was from the people who came weekly from Westchester County and south to visit our fellowship.
I can pretty much guarantee I would not have taken a bible class which was primarily presented to me by a middle-aged preacher. It was the enthusiasm, clarity, commitment, and sureness of people at or near my own age that sold me.
In fact, when I took the class (presented on a reel-to-reel Wolensak tape player), I was kind of put off by Wierwille's preachy style of speaking.
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excathedra
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satori001
Not often. Whenever I get my hopes up, somebody else credits TWI with their answered prayers.
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jkboehme
Hi satori001:
You hit the nail on the head: a good synopsis of much of the thread would indeed be, ‘commitment breeds commitment.’
It can be utilized for good or evil. I would now love to use some of my funky brackets but I will exercise self-control in all disciplined training, and simply state that TWI by far & away chose the latter course of action/conduct/practice/deed/behavior. TWI’s approach in its utilization of ‘commitment’ was a matter of exploitative manipulation.
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DogLover
johniam ... I agree. I still often get prayers answered ... something that never happened before I learned what I learned about the Bible, God, etc. in TWI. That doesn't negate the AWFUL things that happened to people in TWI ... but yeah, I think one of the saddest things I see/read is when people can no longer go to God with humility, love, trust, and thankfulness for what He did for them because of the hurt they experienced in TWI. Then they don't get their prayers answered ... sometimes don't even bother to pray any more because the hurt is so deep.
God was God before TWI and He is still God now....and not the legalistic, spit in your face if you don't tithe God that was sometimes preached to us.
Makes me think of Cliff Adelman's song: "Open your heart and just give Christ a try, he's in love with you, he arose to set you on high..." Not just a salvation song by any means.
I'm NOT trying to say people who have been hurt should just "get over it." I AM saying that God is so much bigger than any hurt that man/woman/organization (no matter how corrupt) can do unto you that it is worth another try (at praying to God) for the many that have been hurt by TWI.
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