I've been a dancer, dance teacher, choreographer, and gymnastics coach/choreographer since 1980. That was the year I graduated as Recognized Way Corps, and the year I was given a BA in Dance and Biblical Studies from New York University's Gallatin Division (an independent study college at the university). Most of my degree credits were earned at NYU's School of the Arts (now Tisch School of the Arts), where I was studying for my BFA.
I transferred to the Gallatin Division because my then-husband wanted to go Corps, so I could finish my last few degree credits by shipping my Corps paperwork to my NYU advisor, who would then find a University professor who could verify that the work was applicable toward my degree. So I am one of the very few people (if not the only one) to apply Corps courses toward an accredited university degree. On my college transcript, those courses are listed only as "independent study," along with other courses that I took as part of the Gallatin program.
So I would have to admit that the Corps courses helped me get my degree. However, the content of those courses did little to enhance my career. Discipline? Heck, I'd learned discipline on the dance floor, working day after day with chronic aches and injuries, focusing my mind on the daily task of honing my body and mind for performance. And I'd attended a first-rate high school even before I got into NYU, so I was academically prepared. At NYU, I'd written a paper on the parallelisms of the book of Ephesians before I went Corps -- it would have stood up to any senior Corps paper, I'm sure. Memory pegs? Nah, I read the book Remember the Word by Harry Lorayne and Jerry Lucas, before I learned it in what's-his-name's public speaking class.
Truth is, I can barely remember anything that we were taught in the Corps. The coursework that stands out in my mind -- that helped me in my chosen profession -- all comes from classes I took at NYU, or independent study that I did outside of the university, and outside of TWI.
Did the teachings hurt me professionally? I don't think so; as I said, I hardly remember them. And I wasn't allowed to join Way Productions (I'd applied for it), so I don't know if working there would have added anything. Perhaps Socks can speak to that aspect.
This is hearsay, but Mark Olthouse (not Mark Sr. who died a few yrs ago, but his son) got a degree from Calvin College with greek and other classes he took in TWI. The college put up a fight but he got the degree anyway.
A little of both, though my comments are a result in so many years "in" and not particularly from any influence of being in The Family Corps - - which, when I was in it, was much less freaky than Emporia.
Helped: I work in Marketing and have communications and graphics teams I've managed over the years - - so attention to detail is important. Growing up with an alcoholic father and then seeing the effects of an alcoholic leader (or leaders) throughout the twi organization - - - (classic among alcholics being "perfectionism") - - - I developed a hypervigilance about freaky details that "normal" people in my field call a good eye for details.
Hindered: That same response to having to have something done perfectly (ain't gonna happen when your company develops software! - - LOL), or the "it has to be done my way" mentality of both my perfectionist father AND so many freakin leaders in twi - - - - took some unlearning and reprogramming, so I could learn how to be a better manager in the corporate world. I had to learn that it's O.K. if someone has a different way to do, organize, lead something - - - as long as we were marching towards the same goal. Not an easy thing to learn - - and when the pressure is on, I sometimes revert in my mind to "dictator or top-down" management where I want to "be in control" and really have to catch myself to let my team function w/o sticking my nose into everything.
I bled green and white from age 17 to 27 in TWI, working any menial job I had to. I thought I had found a way of life, and money and professional aspirations weren't going to be needed. How stupid I was! I began to realize that excellance was a requirement of advancement in the TWI structure, and flipping hamburgers at McDonalds just doomed me to KP and Housekeeping duty in the Corps. After leaving TWI, and needing to earn a living, I had to start from the ground up in the white collar world while living in some roach invested apts while doing it. I survived and advanced on my own. The only thing I got out of the Corps-work wise-was a work ethic. I breathed the "do eight hours of work in four hours" mentality. So I suceeded to a degree without the educational background because of the desire I showed.
What the Corps also did to breed into me a dangerous mentality: when I felt I didn't measure up, I began to look for ways to distance myself. I had a real fear of evaluations: required in the real world but devastating to me because of my Corps experience. Being called in for a meeting with the boss still causes me to sweat. Sitting through training sessions in the beginning were agonizing: flashbacks were common.
On the up side: my later setups for training sessions I conducted were perfect: books, pens, chairs all lined up nice and neat-and yes, I taught my other co-trainers how to string a room.
The Way Corps training helped me immensely when it came to the work ethic thing. I didn't pick up any particular skills other than more carpentry stuff from Way Builders, which of course was valuable, for presently I work as a Union Carpenter. But, I'd grown up really lazy, and the best way for me as a kid to "clean my room" was to simply live in the pigsty as long as I could stand my mom's nagging, and then finally, I'd come home from school one day, and voila! My room was clean! I was an irresponsible slob, and my Mom, God bless her, and my Dad, God rest his soul, never put any "teeth into my upbringing", and let me get away with way too much. And so, alot of the little domestic things we did in the Corps-rooms clean, KP, bathroom cleaning crew, meeting room set up, fleet vehicle maintenance (detailing, car washing, etc) were good for me. Oh, and although this was not very "domestic", I was one of the Honey Wagon Heroes which was a fine "character building" occupation.
Also, the big work parties, like picking squash for a farmer one time, cleaning out Delbert Moran's woods, cleaning out The Way Woods, firewood detail and logging at Camp Gunnison with the Grande Lake guys, and oh, how can I forget this one: Being on the Tent Crew for Corps week and the Rock. And what killed me was that the two guys I learned most from were these two Haitian dudes named Wally and Pierre. You see, these guys had nothing to do with The Way, but worked directly for the seemingly tireless and driven Dave Tseusdy(sp?). And, since they were simple employees, they spoke freely to us and with no remorse about their "unbeliever methods of getting a point across". Which really, was a great thing!
One day, because I was concerned with whether or not I was a hard worker (and had begun to marvel at how those two little dudes worked so damned hard), I asked Wally this question: "Wally, am I a good worker?" And he says in his half English, half French patois; "No. You are a bad worker. Very lazy. You are Number ten! In fact all of you are very bad workers! All of you number ten!! You all talk too much and smoke too many cigarrettes and tell too many jokes! Time to work now, hokay fellas, hokay mon, you, lift dis teeng up and away we go. Hokay fellas hokay!"
And here we were "Way Corps Volunteers" after a whole year in residence, and considered as a bunch of lazy a$$es by some third world dudes "that hadn't even had the Class!" What a stooge I was. But I did learn a valuable lesson from that.
And from that point on I decided that I would become a "Number One Worker". I quit talking and just worked. And later when we took a break, I told Wally and Pierre, that they had better keep an eye out because I was going to become a "number one worker", and they just laughed.
But, as time went on, this became a source of amusement for them, because, me, Alf C*vingt*n , S*ng*t B*in*s and I really felt embarrassed by this incident. I mean, these two dudes didn't even wear shoes half the time, and they out worked anyone of us three to one! And so, we three really got after it as if in a quest, and to our amusement as well, and to our delight, after a few days Wally says to me; "Jonny. You are number seven now. A haw haw haw!" And as the days went on, me and my two friends began to "climb the ladder of respect" in these guys eyes until we were all "Number One's!" And I blistered my hands with the sixteen pound sledge hammer used in driving those big steel stakes (you remember 'em) until my hands eventually bled, but later turned into awesome callouses. And waking up in the morning was a painful ordeal in that it seemed as if I was breaking free from rigormortis my muscles hurt so bad. But I reveled in it. I loved it that I had made my sorry lazy a$$ do what I told it to do, and accomplished far more work than I ever thought I could. And after about ten days, my muscles quit hurting, and I felt physically tough for perhaps the first time and it felt really good. I really grew up alot in that month with those guys. Sang*t and I have even reminisced about it over the years as a great time to remember. Strangely though, a number of the others on our crew during that month began to accuse me and my friends of being on ego trips and being too intense and not "walking in the love of God". But that was okay, because Wally and Pierre called those guys Number Tens still.
And so yes, this all could have easily been gained out here in Regular Life, but, it was in The Way Corps that I learned it, I was put in that situation while in the Corps training, and it was very valuable to me to this day.
And here we were "Way Corps Volunteers" after a whole year in residence, and considered as a bunch of lazy a$$es by some third world dudes "that hadn't even had the Class!" What a stooge I was. But I did learn a valuable lesson from that.
That is the funniest thing I ever heard (well one of).LOL
Too bad Wally and Pierre didn't work with ALL of the Way Corps. You had a unique experience. I wonder where they are now?
I wasn't in the Way Corps, but the training I received at various times in my Way career was both helpful and harmful in my career.
Helpful in that I am very attentive to detail and extremely organized, mainly due to the what semed like millions of meetings and events that I organized and set up for.
Harmful in that the management style that I learned in TWI was dictatorial, "my way or the highway", which hindered me until I learned more effective ways of dealing with people.
I think it helped me learn to multi-task, and I'm pretty good at details, but I can't think of one job I had in the corps work program that helped me in the real world.
My last year in residence I went to headquarters for the day with the wife of our corps coordinator...I felt like it might have been an interview of sorts...anyway, when I voiced my concern that none of the corps jobs would help us get a job in the real world, she looked as though I slapped her in the face. I really didn't intend to be insulting, but I think that comment alone red-flagged me as not being ideal TWIT leadership wife material.
Thanks for the responses. Just for the record, I have a friend who I was in the corps with who was also able to use his way college courses towards his degree after graduation. They also counted as some kind of "independent study" thing.
And I appreciated the work ethic and attention to detail, both of which are important in the professional world. The thing for me is, I think I had those things in my favor way corps training or not.
But I had to really rid myself of the black and white thinking of TWI. I've had to learn over the years that there are very many design options and styles out there, and one is not particularly better than the other; it's just a matter of personal preference and what one is comfortable with. Personally, I prefer more contemporary architecture and interiors and yes, even art work. (Let's not even get started on that topic.)
I can work with traditional furniture, acsessories, and have very often. But it's not the only "right way" or even the "best" in my opinion. And I've done cottage type interiors that have alot of stuff, as in collections, chotchkies, whatever that would send any way corps person I knew back when filling a dumpster for "Uncle Harry Day."
And I had many clients over the years who are into feng shui, so I've had to work in those parameters as well. Truth be told, I never could have done that with my former way corps mentality. And then there's the working with people attitude that Oak mentioned. I have to create a plan that my clinics love and want to live with, what they want, not what I think is "spiritually best" whatever that means.
Huh, so there are a few of us out there! I don't know about them, but I don't talk much about where my final classes came from. (Most of my courses were regular NYU classes, at any rate.) On my transcript, they are just labeled, "Independent Study."
Hey ex10, can you imagine trying to negotiate those assignments with Waybrain...
Client: "I'd like to incorporate my record collection into the decor..."
Wayfer: "Sorry, don't you know those things give off devil spirits? Here, give them to me, I'll burn them for you."
Client: "You'll make CD's out of them? How kind of you! And I have a limited print by Jackson Pollack that must go in the den."
Wayfer: "Modern art! Are you possessed? Wait, let me just reach up into Daddy's cookie jar.... Okay, you're alright. But let me hang this beautiful poster of The Teacher for you instead, it will give your home the right spiritual balance."
Client: "Oh, balance, thank you! I wanted to use the feng shui principles when decorating."
(Sound of a door slamming and Wayfer screaming as she runs to her car and drives away.)
I was encouraged to increase my typing speed to 45 wpm. I did. I was laid off my first winter on the field and found a job as a data entry person with Merrill Lynch. It paid $7/hour more than I was making in my previous job. Since then, I have more than doubled my salary. All starting with my ability to type. I wasn't taught to type while in the Corps, but learned in high school. I was just given the time to increase my speed while in residence.
That was fifteen years ago. I'm expecting to be named to senior management of an IT company in February. java script:emoticon('', 'smid_9')
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excathedra
hinder
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shazdancer
Interesting topic, ex10.
I've been a dancer, dance teacher, choreographer, and gymnastics coach/choreographer since 1980. That was the year I graduated as Recognized Way Corps, and the year I was given a BA in Dance and Biblical Studies from New York University's Gallatin Division (an independent study college at the university). Most of my degree credits were earned at NYU's School of the Arts (now Tisch School of the Arts), where I was studying for my BFA.
I transferred to the Gallatin Division because my then-husband wanted to go Corps, so I could finish my last few degree credits by shipping my Corps paperwork to my NYU advisor, who would then find a University professor who could verify that the work was applicable toward my degree. So I am one of the very few people (if not the only one) to apply Corps courses toward an accredited university degree. On my college transcript, those courses are listed only as "independent study," along with other courses that I took as part of the Gallatin program.
So I would have to admit that the Corps courses helped me get my degree. However, the content of those courses did little to enhance my career. Discipline? Heck, I'd learned discipline on the dance floor, working day after day with chronic aches and injuries, focusing my mind on the daily task of honing my body and mind for performance. And I'd attended a first-rate high school even before I got into NYU, so I was academically prepared. At NYU, I'd written a paper on the parallelisms of the book of Ephesians before I went Corps -- it would have stood up to any senior Corps paper, I'm sure. Memory pegs? Nah, I read the book Remember the Word by Harry Lorayne and Jerry Lucas, before I learned it in what's-his-name's public speaking class.
Truth is, I can barely remember anything that we were taught in the Corps. The coursework that stands out in my mind -- that helped me in my chosen profession -- all comes from classes I took at NYU, or independent study that I did outside of the university, and outside of TWI.
Did the teachings hurt me professionally? I don't think so; as I said, I hardly remember them. And I wasn't allowed to join Way Productions (I'd applied for it), so I don't know if working there would have added anything. Perhaps Socks can speak to that aspect.
Regards,
Shaz
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johniam
This is hearsay, but Mark Olthouse (not Mark Sr. who died a few yrs ago, but his son) got a degree from Calvin College with greek and other classes he took in TWI. The college put up a fight but he got the degree anyway.
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jardinero
A little of both, though my comments are a result in so many years "in" and not particularly from any influence of being in The Family Corps - - which, when I was in it, was much less freaky than Emporia.
Helped: I work in Marketing and have communications and graphics teams I've managed over the years - - so attention to detail is important. Growing up with an alcoholic father and then seeing the effects of an alcoholic leader (or leaders) throughout the twi organization - - - (classic among alcholics being "perfectionism") - - - I developed a hypervigilance about freaky details that "normal" people in my field call a good eye for details.
Hindered: That same response to having to have something done perfectly (ain't gonna happen when your company develops software! - - LOL), or the "it has to be done my way" mentality of both my perfectionist father AND so many freakin leaders in twi - - - - took some unlearning and reprogramming, so I could learn how to be a better manager in the corporate world. I had to learn that it's O.K. if someone has a different way to do, organize, lead something - - - as long as we were marching towards the same goal. Not an easy thing to learn - - and when the pressure is on, I sometimes revert in my mind to "dictator or top-down" management where I want to "be in control" and really have to catch myself to let my team function w/o sticking my nose into everything.
J.
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Lifted Up
It helped indirectly because I had it in my mind to pay attention to those "freaky details", including simple out of the way things.
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topoftheworld
I bled green and white from age 17 to 27 in TWI, working any menial job I had to. I thought I had found a way of life, and money and professional aspirations weren't going to be needed. How stupid I was! I began to realize that excellance was a requirement of advancement in the TWI structure, and flipping hamburgers at McDonalds just doomed me to KP and Housekeeping duty in the Corps. After leaving TWI, and needing to earn a living, I had to start from the ground up in the white collar world while living in some roach invested apts while doing it. I survived and advanced on my own. The only thing I got out of the Corps-work wise-was a work ethic. I breathed the "do eight hours of work in four hours" mentality. So I suceeded to a degree without the educational background because of the desire I showed.
What the Corps also did to breed into me a dangerous mentality: when I felt I didn't measure up, I began to look for ways to distance myself. I had a real fear of evaluations: required in the real world but devastating to me because of my Corps experience. Being called in for a meeting with the boss still causes me to sweat. Sitting through training sessions in the beginning were agonizing: flashbacks were common.
On the up side: my later setups for training sessions I conducted were perfect: books, pens, chairs all lined up nice and neat-and yes, I taught my other co-trainers how to string a room.
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excathedra
you are awesome toppie
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GrouchoMarxJr
As a professional chair stringer, making a triple figure salary, I owe everything to my corps training.
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topoftheworld
Thanks, Excie. By the way-I'm looking for another job, if anybody has in ideas....
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J0nny Ling0
The Way Corps training helped me immensely when it came to the work ethic thing. I didn't pick up any particular skills other than more carpentry stuff from Way Builders, which of course was valuable, for presently I work as a Union Carpenter. But, I'd grown up really lazy, and the best way for me as a kid to "clean my room" was to simply live in the pigsty as long as I could stand my mom's nagging, and then finally, I'd come home from school one day, and voila! My room was clean! I was an irresponsible slob, and my Mom, God bless her, and my Dad, God rest his soul, never put any "teeth into my upbringing", and let me get away with way too much. And so, alot of the little domestic things we did in the Corps-rooms clean, KP, bathroom cleaning crew, meeting room set up, fleet vehicle maintenance (detailing, car washing, etc) were good for me. Oh, and although this was not very "domestic", I was one of the Honey Wagon Heroes which was a fine "character building" occupation.
Also, the big work parties, like picking squash for a farmer one time, cleaning out Delbert Moran's woods, cleaning out The Way Woods, firewood detail and logging at Camp Gunnison with the Grande Lake guys, and oh, how can I forget this one: Being on the Tent Crew for Corps week and the Rock. And what killed me was that the two guys I learned most from were these two Haitian dudes named Wally and Pierre. You see, these guys had nothing to do with The Way, but worked directly for the seemingly tireless and driven Dave Tseusdy(sp?). And, since they were simple employees, they spoke freely to us and with no remorse about their "unbeliever methods of getting a point across". Which really, was a great thing!
One day, because I was concerned with whether or not I was a hard worker (and had begun to marvel at how those two little dudes worked so damned hard), I asked Wally this question: "Wally, am I a good worker?" And he says in his half English, half French patois; "No. You are a bad worker. Very lazy. You are Number ten! In fact all of you are very bad workers! All of you number ten!! You all talk too much and smoke too many cigarrettes and tell too many jokes! Time to work now, hokay fellas, hokay mon, you, lift dis teeng up and away we go. Hokay fellas hokay!"
And here we were "Way Corps Volunteers" after a whole year in residence, and considered as a bunch of lazy a$$es by some third world dudes "that hadn't even had the Class!" What a stooge I was. But I did learn a valuable lesson from that.
And from that point on I decided that I would become a "Number One Worker". I quit talking and just worked. And later when we took a break, I told Wally and Pierre, that they had better keep an eye out because I was going to become a "number one worker", and they just laughed.
But, as time went on, this became a source of amusement for them, because, me, Alf C*vingt*n , S*ng*t B*in*s and I really felt embarrassed by this incident. I mean, these two dudes didn't even wear shoes half the time, and they out worked anyone of us three to one! And so, we three really got after it as if in a quest, and to our amusement as well, and to our delight, after a few days Wally says to me; "Jonny. You are number seven now. A haw haw haw!" And as the days went on, me and my two friends began to "climb the ladder of respect" in these guys eyes until we were all "Number One's!" And I blistered my hands with the sixteen pound sledge hammer used in driving those big steel stakes (you remember 'em) until my hands eventually bled, but later turned into awesome callouses. And waking up in the morning was a painful ordeal in that it seemed as if I was breaking free from rigormortis my muscles hurt so bad. But I reveled in it. I loved it that I had made my sorry lazy a$$ do what I told it to do, and accomplished far more work than I ever thought I could. And after about ten days, my muscles quit hurting, and I felt physically tough for perhaps the first time and it felt really good. I really grew up alot in that month with those guys. Sang*t and I have even reminisced about it over the years as a great time to remember. Strangely though, a number of the others on our crew during that month began to accuse me and my friends of being on ego trips and being too intense and not "walking in the love of God". But that was okay, because Wally and Pierre called those guys Number Tens still.
And so yes, this all could have easily been gained out here in Regular Life, but, it was in The Way Corps that I learned it, I was put in that situation while in the Corps training, and it was very valuable to me to this day.
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bliss
That is the funniest thing I ever heard (well one of).LOL
Too bad Wally and Pierre didn't work with ALL of the Way Corps. You had a unique experience. I wonder where they are now?
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Oakspear
I wasn't in the Way Corps, but the training I received at various times in my Way career was both helpful and harmful in my career.
Helpful in that I am very attentive to detail and extremely organized, mainly due to the what semed like millions of meetings and events that I organized and set up for.
Harmful in that the management style that I learned in TWI was dictatorial, "my way or the highway", which hindered me until I learned more effective ways of dealing with people.
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tonto
I think it helped me learn to multi-task, and I'm pretty good at details, but I can't think of one job I had in the corps work program that helped me in the real world.
My last year in residence I went to headquarters for the day with the wife of our corps coordinator...I felt like it might have been an interview of sorts...anyway, when I voiced my concern that none of the corps jobs would help us get a job in the real world, she looked as though I slapped her in the face. I really didn't intend to be insulting, but I think that comment alone red-flagged me as not being ideal TWIT leadership wife material.
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ex10
Thanks for the responses. Just for the record, I have a friend who I was in the corps with who was also able to use his way college courses towards his degree after graduation. They also counted as some kind of "independent study" thing.
And I appreciated the work ethic and attention to detail, both of which are important in the professional world. The thing for me is, I think I had those things in my favor way corps training or not.
But I had to really rid myself of the black and white thinking of TWI. I've had to learn over the years that there are very many design options and styles out there, and one is not particularly better than the other; it's just a matter of personal preference and what one is comfortable with. Personally, I prefer more contemporary architecture and interiors and yes, even art work. (Let's not even get started on that topic.)
I can work with traditional furniture, acsessories, and have very often. But it's not the only "right way" or even the "best" in my opinion. And I've done cottage type interiors that have alot of stuff, as in collections, chotchkies, whatever that would send any way corps person I knew back when filling a dumpster for "Uncle Harry Day."
And I had many clients over the years who are into feng shui, so I've had to work in those parameters as well. Truth be told, I never could have done that with my former way corps mentality. And then there's the working with people attitude that Oak mentioned. I have to create a plan that my clinics love and want to live with, what they want, not what I think is "spiritually best" whatever that means.
An interesting topic, I think.
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shazdancer
Huh, so there are a few of us out there! I don't know about them, but I don't talk much about where my final classes came from. (Most of my courses were regular NYU classes, at any rate.) On my transcript, they are just labeled, "Independent Study."
Hey ex10, can you imagine trying to negotiate those assignments with Waybrain...
Client: "I'd like to incorporate my record collection into the decor..."
Wayfer: "Sorry, don't you know those things give off devil spirits? Here, give them to me, I'll burn them for you."
Client: "You'll make CD's out of them? How kind of you! And I have a limited print by Jackson Pollack that must go in the den."
Wayfer: "Modern art! Are you possessed? Wait, let me just reach up into Daddy's cookie jar.... Okay, you're alright. But let me hang this beautiful poster of The Teacher for you instead, it will give your home the right spiritual balance."
Client: "Oh, balance, thank you! I wanted to use the feng shui principles when decorating."
(Sound of a door slamming and Wayfer screaming as she runs to her car and drives away.)
:D
Shaz
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ex10
OMG shaz. You just gave me the best belly laff I've had all day, or week, even!!!
Your last post illustrated my point perzactly. Thanks for that. :)
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Tumbleweed Kid
I was encouraged to increase my typing speed to 45 wpm. I did. I was laid off my first winter on the field and found a job as a data entry person with Merrill Lynch. It paid $7/hour more than I was making in my previous job. Since then, I have more than doubled my salary. All starting with my ability to type. I wasn't taught to type while in the Corps, but learned in high school. I was just given the time to increase my speed while in residence.
That was fifteen years ago. I'm expecting to be named to senior management of an IT company in February. java script:emoticon('
', 'smid_9')
God is good.
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