"It is one thing for someone to 'walk the straight and narrow' in their own lives...quite another for one to impose one's understanding of 'the straight and narrow' onto another's life.
Which is the basis of any good cult, btw."
Ron G. concurs...
For that very reason, Hollywood shouldn't be promoting their "values" to those who don't want them.
As for The Passion of The Christ, I don't recall a lot of support from the Hollywood PTB, although attention is attention, and a case can be made that the negative attention served the marketing of the film very well.
I fully concur with the non-thinking bigotry. I don't think that is exclusive to what is normally called a cult, but extends to all segments of society when one lets another do his thinking for him (includes a lot of politics as well IMNSHO)
No, it is not exclusive to cults. The point, for me, of bringing the cult experience into the discussion is a)this is an ex-cult site where it is hoped to examine the cult experience and how it influenced our lives, and, b)to look at what came first, the cult or the mentality that made one susceptible to the cult.
Good to 'see' you, too. I never go far or for long...just far enough not to be smelled and long enough to be missed. ;) LOL
For that very reason, Hollywood shouldn't be promoting their "values" to those who don't want them.
Well, I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. I watch a whole lot of TV and movies, am on the internet a whole lot, get a whole lot of mail, read a bunch of newspapers and get around town sometimes...and I have no clue about the movie or the promotions of which you speak.
As for The Passion of The Christ, I don't recall a lot of support from the Hollywood PTB, although attention is attention, and a case can be made that the negative attention served the marketing of the film very well.
Oh sheesh...it seems that wherever I turned it was some billboard, some headline, some commercial, some talk show (radio and TV) or some preacher nattering on and on about the movie.
Maybe there's a level of perception going on here...?
Brokeback Mountain is a disgusting, vile, revolting, nauseating piece of devilish trash, which is why I refuse to see it, read about it, hear about it, or know anything about it. I know everything I need to know - nothing at all. It's more sanctified to be ignorant than to be stupid, and that's my motto.
Brokeback Mountain is a disgusting, vile, revolting, nauseating piece of devilish trash, which is why I refuse to see it, read about it, hear about it, or know anything about it. I know everything I need to know - nothing at all. It's more sanctified to be ignorant than to be stupid, and that's my motto.
OK...satori channeling lcm made me look... ;)
So I went to the site ( http://www.brokebackmountain.com/home.html ) and read the review from The Kansas City Star (one of my local newspapers)...which I chose because I'm in the heart of the Bible Belt and figured if it is all what some folks here say it is...well, the Star would say so. I also watched the trailer.
It's nothing more...nor less...than a tragic love story.
Having been there, done that (twice married to a gay man struggling within himself), I feel cheated that all this brouhaha was over nothing but reality.
Ignorance, in this case, has been fleshed out to be stupidity...imo.
Interesting that you can't remember the last time it went to a low budget, low grossing film. You only had to go back one more year.
In 2003's ceremony, the winner was The Hours, ($41 million gross after some 20 weeks).
Then there was American Beauty, 2000's ceremony.
And let's not even MENTION nominees that didn't win, such as Closer last year.
Far from what you mention, the Golden Globes typically try to honor lower budget, limited release films, if not with awards, then certainly with nominations. How else to explain Philip Seymour Hoffman winning the Best Actor award for a film I guarantee only a single-digit-fraction of GSers even knew was OUT, much less have seen?
Interesting that you can't remember the last time it went to a low budget, low grossing film. You only had to go back one more year.
In 2003's ceremony, the winner was The Hours, ($41 million gross after some 20 weeks).
Then there was American Beauty, 2000's ceremony.
And let's not even MENTION nominees that didn't win, such as Closer last year.
Far from what you mention, the Golden Globes typically try to honor lower budget, limited release films, if not with awards, then certainly with nominations. How else to explain Philip Seymour Hoffman winning the Best Actor award for a film I guarantee only a single-digit-fraction of GSers even knew was OUT, much less have seen?
OK (reeling from the slapping around I've just gotten)
I defer to your far superior expertise and withdraw all my ignorant comments. The film is obviously a superior film and is not targeted to the unwashed masses, like me, who are simply not sophisticated enough to recognize it's true quality.
I never claimed to be an art critic: I just know what I like and what I don't like.
(Yes...I'm in a mood...and I'm tired of shutting up just to avoid conflict. If I offended somebody...Good! Maybe they'll look at themselves in a mirror sometime and figure they've got enough to worry about.)
All I'm saying is box office doesn't prove or disprove any part of this. The Globe awards have lauded box office Mighty Mice and box office Mini-Mice. I think the question is whether this IS a good movie worthy of awards, or whether it's a lackluster effort being exalted by the elite because of its subject matter (much like that TV-movie-of-the-week, Philadelphia).
I, for one, will never know, because I have no intention of seeing this movie. I just don't find it interesting. And it's not an anti-gay thing, either, because I was among the first in line to see Rent and Capote, but still have not seen The Hours or Good Night and Good Luck (and if anyone was going to rush to the latter film, you'd think it'd be me).
Hollywood shouldn't be promoting their "values" to those who don't want them.
Huh?
Is anybody being forced to go see this movie? Is there anybody that doesn't know this is the "gay cowboy movie?" Are people showing up at theaters thinking this is a Clint Eastwood flick and being shocked at what it is?
Larry McMurtry is a very good writer, Ang Lee is a vey good director and the movie is getting very good reviews, but I have absolutely no interest in the subject matter, so I won't be seeing it. Personal choice.
Is anybody being forced to go see this movie? Is there anybody that doesn't know this is the "gay cowboy movie?" Are people showing up at theaters thinking this is a Clint Eastwood flick and being shocked at what it is?
Larry McMurtry is a very good writer, Ang Lee is a vey good director and the movie is getting very good reviews, but I have absolutely no interest in the subject matter, so I won't be seeing it. Personal choice.
I will not go see the movie because the main thought is about gays.
For all ya'll that want to be a cowboy. I got news. Its dirty, smelly, cold in the winter, hot in the summer, low pay, long days, nsaty work. Some mondern day cowboys I know would do it even if they wern't paid. Me, I'd rather eat them than work with them.
Isn't that what everyone who is worked up about this movie is afraid of? They played cowboys as little boys, and now that they're afraid that little Johnny and Tommy will see this and want to.... er.... go blazin' trails. But it ain't a kid's movie, right? So what's the problem?
To Americans, cowboys are a scared thing - the manly man on the range, doing very manly things. They're heros. It would be like saying Superman was gay, or Batman was a trans. Surely there's never been a gay cowboy before....
So, why did the Lone Ranger spend so much time with Tonto?
I judge a movie - not on how much it's grossing in the box office - but on whether i enjoyed sitting in the theatre and having a story played out for me on the screen. If it had good dialogue, cinematography, acting, if it makes me cry, laugh out loud, or think about something that needed more thought - that's a good movie - and my $6.75 (eat your hearts out - i found a comfie cheap theatre with free parking) was well spent.
Furthermore, I applaud Hollywood when they attempt to stretch people's minds to view a topic in a new light. Many of us were brought up to view homosexuals as freaks, not as flesh and blood humans deserving the same quality of life that god-fearing (heh) heterosexuals deserve. This wasn't "the message" of the movie at all, but having the main characters be homosexuals brought homosexual love a little further out of the closet, perhaps encouraging society to give them a little free air to breath.
McMurtry's screenwriting was great! The woman who wrote the story (forgot her name) did a good job. The horses...oh the horses...so lovely. And, the acting couldn't have been better, imho, by all involved. The scenery fueled my travel lust - oh to see wyoming again!
anyway, i think it's funny how many posters on this thread haven't seen it (and/or won't see it) because of it's subject matter. It's about love - and it might make you cry, laugh out loud or think about something that needed more thought.
of course, i liked king kong too, so what do i know? :blink:
Well of course a movie to promote homosexuality will be well acted, well directed, and then voted in favor of by the Hollyweird elite. But it still is what it is: A "Homo Promo". I won't see it. To me to even think of American Cowboys depicted as lovers of their own sex is repulsive. No, they may not show any buggery, but then, I read this and so will post it: It is a quote from a blog that discusses the movie:
According to viewers who saw the movie, they say Ang Lee remained faithful to the homosexual anal sex written in Proulx's short story based on this paragraph (warning: graphic language):
"'. . . quit hammerin and get over here. Bedroll's big enough,' said Jack in an irritable sleep-clogged voice. It was big enough, warm enough, and in a little while they deepened their intimacy considerably. Ennis ran full throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending, and he wanted none of it when Jack seized his left hand and brought it to his erect c**k. Ennis jerked his hand away as though he'd touched fire, got to his knees, unbuckled his belt, shoved his pants down, hauled Jack onto all fours, and, with the help of the clear slick and a little spit, entered him, nothing he'd done before but no instruction manual needed. They went at it in silence except for a few sharp intakes of breath and Jack's choked 'Gun's goin off,' then out, down, and asleep."
And so yeah, the thought of a couple of queer cowboys doing it is totally disgusting to me, and is a degradation of one of the most American occupations that I and many can think of.
So many people say; "What difference does it make what a couple of guys do in the privacy of their own bedroom?" Or in this case, on their bedroll on the open range. And to this I say; "Well maybe". But, IT has not been left in the privacy of their bedrooms. IT has been splashed all across the media. Gay rights groups have showered nuns with condoms, marched in Parades in their freakish drag costumes bragging about their bedroom exploits. IT has been promoted in public schools (I witnessed this in my own children's public scholls, so don't tell me it hasn't), and IT has now been big talk in the media, tempting the imaginations of viewers and readers.
I have personally witnessed gay men making out publicly in crowded tourist areas because they were proclaiming their "orientation" during national gay month or week or whichever it was, right in front of Moms and Dads with their kids out for some tourist shopping in downtown Seattle along the Wharf. I had to try and be polite while asking a couple of gay guys to stop making out in heated passion, grabbing each others crotches, in the barroom lounge of the ship that I worked on, and the response I got was both of them telling me that "You sure are cute, wanna join us?" And yet, I was the one who had to be careful not to say anything too harsh, or the State of Alaska could get sued. I tried to politely tell them that they "should get a room", and they said that it was their right to display their sexuality because it was national gay month or week, or whatever. This was withing days of the Seattle incident. Finally they went and "got a room", and I was commended by my bar tender friend for keeping my anger in check. Of course during the next two weeks on the run, I endured lots af jokes from my crew, teasing me and telling me that "I was soo hot!" Yet I was the one who had to be careful not to offend those gay guys when simply trying to get them to be polite and stop mauling each other in the public view of passengers which included kids. The bar had glass windows so the patrons could watch the sea go by, and kids always liked to look in to the "forbidden bar". And so, pretty twisted, that.
A friend of mine and his then two little girls were walking through Arlington National Cemetary on Memorial Day, and as they passed between a set of bushes, they walked right into two guys performing anal sex right in fron to anyone who might stumble into them. And he his wife and two middle school age daughters got the complete eyefull. At Arlington. On Memorial Day.
And so, the privacy of their bedroom? Naa. They don't want IT to stay there, and it won't stay there. And it is a shame that this movie is getting awards for basically no other reason other than the fact that it is a gay lifestyle promotion, and it's producers and actors are "so brave" for throwing caution to the wind and depicting a couple of American cowboys this way.
In my opinion, if they really want to "just live their lifestyle", well then, so be it. They may. It is a free country and I respect that. I am not a "rabid homo hater", but it is a myth that this lifestyle is something that goes only behind closed doors. It is promoted it seems, everytime we turn around. It is the buildup of "in your face-ness" that has become so repugnant to me.
And so, we've had all of these discussions before. But I guess "Broke Back Mountain" fans the flames once again as it is splashed by the media into our faces, once again...
It's totally disgusting to you and yet you troll for more info to be disgusted by. Don't you see that it is you that is making yourself disgusted and not one anyone else is doing? Why do you keep touching the flame? You know it's gonna' burn you and yet you keep going back for more.
I think the bigger question is...why do you put yourself through it,if not of some kind of twisted pleasure? If I know I am going to be repulsed by something I certainily don't prove my point by seeking it out.
Here's a positive movie review that expresses some of my feelings about homosexuality. I admit that some folks are that way but its not what I would choose to watch for entertainment purposes.
"Does being grossed out by gay men having sex make me a homophobe? Does it make me a bad person?"
Well, I understand, but I am no more disgusted by homosexuals acting inappropriately in public than I am about heterosexuals. I think both are behaving poorly. But it is not about who's doing whom. It is about decorum and manners.
As a single mother, I am more bothered by single moms who throw themselves at men, who carry on in bars and who give us all a bad name. I think anyone can say that about their group. Perhaps married hetero couples feel that way about swingers.
But I don't sit around and judge divorcees. I lead support groups for divorcees and try to help bring about change in positive healthy ways. Heal the hurt and you will heal acting out behaviors.
Or you could just call them names, also behave poorly, and feel superior...
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Ron G.
CW sez...
Ron G. concurs...
For that very reason, Hollywood shouldn't be promoting their "values" to those who don't want them.
As for The Passion of The Christ, I don't recall a lot of support from the Hollywood PTB, although attention is attention, and a case can be made that the negative attention served the marketing of the film very well.
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CoolWaters
No, it is not exclusive to cults. The point, for me, of bringing the cult experience into the discussion is a)this is an ex-cult site where it is hoped to examine the cult experience and how it influenced our lives, and, b)to look at what came first, the cult or the mentality that made one susceptible to the cult.
Good to 'see' you, too. I never go far or for long...just far enough not to be smelled and long enough to be missed. ;) LOL
Well, I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. I watch a whole lot of TV and movies, am on the internet a whole lot, get a whole lot of mail, read a bunch of newspapers and get around town sometimes...and I have no clue about the movie or the promotions of which you speak.
Oh sheesh...it seems that wherever I turned it was some billboard, some headline, some commercial, some talk show (radio and TV) or some preacher nattering on and on about the movie.
Maybe there's a level of perception going on here...?
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satori001
Brokeback Mountain is a disgusting, vile, revolting, nauseating piece of devilish trash, which is why I refuse to see it, read about it, hear about it, or know anything about it. I know everything I need to know - nothing at all. It's more sanctified to be ignorant than to be stupid, and that's my motto.
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CoolWaters
OK...satori channeling lcm made me look... ;)
So I went to the site ( http://www.brokebackmountain.com/home.html ) and read the review from The Kansas City Star (one of my local newspapers)...which I chose because I'm in the heart of the Bible Belt and figured if it is all what some folks here say it is...well, the Star would say so. I also watched the trailer.
Here is the link to the review I read: http://www.brokebackmountain.com/reviewsTe...hp?iReviewID=23
I'm shocked! Stunned! Stupefied! Disappointed even!
It's nothing more...nor less...than a tragic love story.
Having been there, done that (twice married to a gay man struggling within himself), I feel cheated that all this brouhaha was over nothing but reality.
Ignorance, in this case, has been fleshed out to be stupidity...imo.
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Raf
Mark,
Interesting that you can't remember the last time it went to a low budget, low grossing film. You only had to go back one more year.
In 2003's ceremony, the winner was The Hours, ($41 million gross after some 20 weeks).
Then there was American Beauty, 2000's ceremony.
And let's not even MENTION nominees that didn't win, such as Closer last year.
Far from what you mention, the Golden Globes typically try to honor lower budget, limited release films, if not with awards, then certainly with nominations. How else to explain Philip Seymour Hoffman winning the Best Actor award for a film I guarantee only a single-digit-fraction of GSers even knew was OUT, much less have seen?
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markomalley
OK (reeling from the slapping around I've just gotten)
I defer to your far superior expertise and withdraw all my ignorant comments. The film is obviously a superior film and is not targeted to the unwashed masses, like me, who are simply not sophisticated enough to recognize it's true quality.
I never claimed to be an art critic: I just know what I like and what I don't like.
Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea maxima friggin culpa
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Raf
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
You rock, Mark.
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Shellon
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Raf
All I'm saying is box office doesn't prove or disprove any part of this. The Globe awards have lauded box office Mighty Mice and box office Mini-Mice. I think the question is whether this IS a good movie worthy of awards, or whether it's a lackluster effort being exalted by the elite because of its subject matter (much like that TV-movie-of-the-week, Philadelphia).
I, for one, will never know, because I have no intention of seeing this movie. I just don't find it interesting. And it's not an anti-gay thing, either, because I was among the first in line to see Rent and Capote, but still have not seen The Hours or Good Night and Good Luck (and if anyone was going to rush to the latter film, you'd think it'd be me).
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Pirate1974
Huh?
Is anybody being forced to go see this movie? Is there anybody that doesn't know this is the "gay cowboy movie?" Are people showing up at theaters thinking this is a Clint Eastwood flick and being shocked at what it is?
Larry McMurtry is a very good writer, Ang Lee is a vey good director and the movie is getting very good reviews, but I have absolutely no interest in the subject matter, so I won't be seeing it. Personal choice.
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justloafing
Ditto
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
ex70
the cowboys or the cows!
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Belle
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ChasUFarley
Good one, Belle!
Isn't that what everyone who is worked up about this movie is afraid of? They played cowboys as little boys, and now that they're afraid that little Johnny and Tommy will see this and want to.... er.... go blazin' trails. But it ain't a kid's movie, right? So what's the problem?
To Americans, cowboys are a scared thing - the manly man on the range, doing very manly things. They're heros. It would be like saying Superman was gay, or Batman was a trans. Surely there's never been a gay cowboy before....
So, why did the Lone Ranger spend so much time with Tonto?
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nellie
I judge a movie - not on how much it's grossing in the box office - but on whether i enjoyed sitting in the theatre and having a story played out for me on the screen. If it had good dialogue, cinematography, acting, if it makes me cry, laugh out loud, or think about something that needed more thought - that's a good movie - and my $6.75 (eat your hearts out - i found a comfie cheap theatre with free parking) was well spent.
Furthermore, I applaud Hollywood when they attempt to stretch people's minds to view a topic in a new light. Many of us were brought up to view homosexuals as freaks, not as flesh and blood humans deserving the same quality of life that god-fearing (heh) heterosexuals deserve. This wasn't "the message" of the movie at all, but having the main characters be homosexuals brought homosexual love a little further out of the closet, perhaps encouraging society to give them a little free air to breath.
McMurtry's screenwriting was great! The woman who wrote the story (forgot her name) did a good job. The horses...oh the horses...so lovely. And, the acting couldn't have been better, imho, by all involved. The scenery fueled my travel lust - oh to see wyoming again!
anyway, i think it's funny how many posters on this thread haven't seen it (and/or won't see it) because of it's subject matter. It's about love - and it might make you cry, laugh out loud or think about something that needed more thought.
of course, i liked king kong too, so what do i know? :blink:
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WhiteDove
I think maybe it was that smoke Tonto got from the medicine man for the peace pipe.
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Ron G.
LOLOL Belle
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J0nny Ling0
Well of course a movie to promote homosexuality will be well acted, well directed, and then voted in favor of by the Hollyweird elite. But it still is what it is: A "Homo Promo". I won't see it. To me to even think of American Cowboys depicted as lovers of their own sex is repulsive. No, they may not show any buggery, but then, I read this and so will post it: It is a quote from a blog that discusses the movie:
And so yeah, the thought of a couple of queer cowboys doing it is totally disgusting to me, and is a degradation of one of the most American occupations that I and many can think of.
So many people say; "What difference does it make what a couple of guys do in the privacy of their own bedroom?" Or in this case, on their bedroll on the open range. And to this I say; "Well maybe". But, IT has not been left in the privacy of their bedrooms. IT has been splashed all across the media. Gay rights groups have showered nuns with condoms, marched in Parades in their freakish drag costumes bragging about their bedroom exploits. IT has been promoted in public schools (I witnessed this in my own children's public scholls, so don't tell me it hasn't), and IT has now been big talk in the media, tempting the imaginations of viewers and readers.
I have personally witnessed gay men making out publicly in crowded tourist areas because they were proclaiming their "orientation" during national gay month or week or whichever it was, right in front of Moms and Dads with their kids out for some tourist shopping in downtown Seattle along the Wharf. I had to try and be polite while asking a couple of gay guys to stop making out in heated passion, grabbing each others crotches, in the barroom lounge of the ship that I worked on, and the response I got was both of them telling me that "You sure are cute, wanna join us?" And yet, I was the one who had to be careful not to say anything too harsh, or the State of Alaska could get sued. I tried to politely tell them that they "should get a room", and they said that it was their right to display their sexuality because it was national gay month or week, or whatever. This was withing days of the Seattle incident. Finally they went and "got a room", and I was commended by my bar tender friend for keeping my anger in check. Of course during the next two weeks on the run, I endured lots af jokes from my crew, teasing me and telling me that "I was soo hot!" Yet I was the one who had to be careful not to offend those gay guys when simply trying to get them to be polite and stop mauling each other in the public view of passengers which included kids. The bar had glass windows so the patrons could watch the sea go by, and kids always liked to look in to the "forbidden bar". And so, pretty twisted, that.
A friend of mine and his then two little girls were walking through Arlington National Cemetary on Memorial Day, and as they passed between a set of bushes, they walked right into two guys performing anal sex right in fron to anyone who might stumble into them. And he his wife and two middle school age daughters got the complete eyefull. At Arlington. On Memorial Day.
And so, the privacy of their bedroom? Naa. They don't want IT to stay there, and it won't stay there. And it is a shame that this movie is getting awards for basically no other reason other than the fact that it is a gay lifestyle promotion, and it's producers and actors are "so brave" for throwing caution to the wind and depicting a couple of American cowboys this way.
In my opinion, if they really want to "just live their lifestyle", well then, so be it. They may. It is a free country and I respect that. I am not a "rabid homo hater", but it is a myth that this lifestyle is something that goes only behind closed doors. It is promoted it seems, everytime we turn around. It is the buildup of "in your face-ness" that has become so repugnant to me.
And so, we've had all of these discussions before. But I guess "Broke Back Mountain" fans the flames once again as it is splashed by the media into our faces, once again...
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karmicdebt
It's totally disgusting to you and yet you troll for more info to be disgusted by. Don't you see that it is you that is making yourself disgusted and not one anyone else is doing? Why do you keep touching the flame? You know it's gonna' burn you and yet you keep going back for more.
I think the bigger question is...why do you put yourself through it,if not of some kind of twisted pleasure? If I know I am going to be repulsed by something I certainily don't prove my point by seeking it out.
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Sudo
Here's a positive movie review that expresses some of my feelings about homosexuality. I admit that some folks are that way but its not what I would choose to watch for entertainment purposes.
"Does being grossed out by gay men having sex make me a homophobe? Does it make me a bad person?"
Click HERE! for the full review.
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ex70sHouston
People ask me why this bothers me? It wouldn't if it wasn't thrown in my face everytime I turn around.
This movie is being promoted in the news and not via advertising.
If a person wants to be a f***t and do it at home. OK.
I find the act of homosexuality offensive. So if you put it in front of me I will react very badly.
If you came in my yard and took a dump you might be in trouble. If two guys start kissing in my yard, call the cops.
Call me whatever. God made us man and woman. Not man and man or woman and woman.
If you want the other go find a closet.
Thats who I am and if you don't like it go F youself.
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GarthP2000
Now, now Houston, don't hold back. Tell us how you truly feel!
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karmicdebt
Well, I understand, but I am no more disgusted by homosexuals acting inappropriately in public than I am about heterosexuals. I think both are behaving poorly. But it is not about who's doing whom. It is about decorum and manners.
As a single mother, I am more bothered by single moms who throw themselves at men, who carry on in bars and who give us all a bad name. I think anyone can say that about their group. Perhaps married hetero couples feel that way about swingers.
But I don't sit around and judge divorcees. I lead support groups for divorcees and try to help bring about change in positive healthy ways. Heal the hurt and you will heal acting out behaviors.
Or you could just call them names, also behave poorly, and feel superior...
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GarthP2000
... and whitewash it all by feeling that God is on your side.
<_<
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