As far as written music is concerned, the trumpet and cornet are interchangeable. They play in the same key, and usually play identical parts. Often composers, such as Debussy, Rimsky-Korsakov, Vaughan-Williams, and Tchaikovsky, wish to assign separate trumpet and cornet parts in their music (usually three cornet parts and two trumpet parts) in order to display the different characteristics of each instrument. This does not mean that these parts must be played on these instruments, but they should be if they are available to obtain the texture of sound that the composer intended.
The trumpet was the first of the two instruments to evolve, coming from the natural trumpets of the Baroque and Renaissance times. The trumpet's bore diameter (the size of the tubing) remains constant throughout the entire instrument until it reaches the bell. The tubing is also kept as straight as possible in the construction. These two features are very important, because they produce a more open and "bright" sound. Since the 1950's, trumpets have been the dominant instrument in bands and orchestras in America.
The cornet, on the other hand, was developed in the 19th century and was made famous by the cornet virtuoso J.B. Arban of France. His style, phrasing, and technique helped to give the cornet a role as premiere melody instrument along side the flute and violin. For this reason, when both cornet and trumpet parts are called for in a piece of music, the cornet part usually contains most of the technique and flair while the trumpets keep rhythm and fanfares. The tubing on a cornet, as opposed to a trumpet, increases in diameter as the overall length increases (this is called "conical"). The tubing is also wound more compactly, and therefore is not as "free-blowing" as a trumpet. This means that when the player plays, he will feel a slight increase in resistance from the air having to take extra turns in the tubing. As a result of these two factors, the cornet has a more mellow sound than the trumpet. This sound is often called for in many military marches, such as those by Fillmore or Sousa.
The modern cornet is not nearly as mellow as those produced in the 1800's. The primary reason for this was the redesign of cornet mouthpieces by Vincent Bach, to compete with the trumpet in the 1940's and 50's. Older cornet mouthpeices are "V" shaped, instead of having a round cup. This produced a very mellow sound, and many leading orchestral principals still try to play on an old cornet and mouthpeice to obtain the more mellow sound. The problem with old cornet mouthpeices is that they are difficult to play at high dynamic levels or in the upper register, so often it is necessary to switch to a more modern trumpet-like mouthpiece
Old cornets also have a "Shepherd's Crook" in the base of the bell. This bend also helps to give the cornet its wonderful round, dark sound, but has unfortunately been removed from many cornets today. Just now, some manufacturers are re-introducing the "crook" into their construction.
In order to hear what a good cornet sound is, try to seek out good British brass band recordings. Britian is one of the few places that have held on to the old cornet sound, and continues this great tradition of the cornet.
Used to me is good. The instrument has mellowed out, and sounds better than one that is brand new.
Again -- I don't know that much about reed instruments.
But of course, I am speaking about stringed instruments -- where the age of the wood involved (and use there-of) are involved.
Wood mellows out over the years, and constant picking helps the tone to sound better. New instruments don't have that luxury afforded to them (at least stringed instruments).
I know of one luthier up here in Minney-soda that makes mandos and guitars -- And I would not hesitate for an instant to buy one of his brand new.
Even brand new -- his sound like they have been around for 40 or 50 years. :)
The difference between a cornet and trumpet is the body style gives the cornet a slightly mellower sound while the longer trumet projects more and is a little brassier sounding.
Both are identical otherwise.
I would check out pawn shops and the like. Check it over for severe dents and check to make sure the valves work smoothly and easily. The slides, particulrly the tuning slide, should go in and out easily, although if it's stuck, a good band teacher can fix it.
I wouldn't pay more than $150 for a used one. A Conn or a King might be the best brands to look for as they are suitable for student and will carry the student on through college level and beyond.
Make certain the mouthpiece rim is free of nicks and scratches and has no brassing. A Bach 7C mouthpiece is usually standard for a beginner.
Frankly, buying a new trumpet or cornet is very costly, especially if you're not sure that the student will stick with it. When you buy a new instrument, which may range from 500 to 1000 dollars for a "beginners's instrument," you are assured of a playable instrument that usually has some type of warranty. Many music stores also may have a rent-to-own plan that may be worthwhile to look into. On the average though, it is usually a good idea to either borrow an instrument from a friend who has quit playing or buy a used trumpet.
When buying used trumpets, check with your director to see if there are any students who have dropped out of the class who might sell their trumpet. This way, the director can tell you if the instrument is in good shape. If there are no instruments available in this fashion, local pawn shops might be a good idea to look into, but you should be prepared and know what to look for when you walk in the door. You should bring with you a bottle of valve oil and slide grease to check everything out. First, inspect the quality of the brass. Are there many dents? A few are fine, but make sure that the bell, leadpipe and valve casings are free from any major dents. Small dents are fine, but large ones will noticeably make the instrument sound different. Next, oil the valves, as outlined in Trumpet Maintenance. After oiling, make sure that all of the valves are free flowing, and that there is no friction. If there is any, don't bother with the instrument, because repairing it will probably cost as much as the instrument. Next, make sure that all of the slides can move. If some don't want to come out, apply some slide grease and a little pressure. It's usually OK if the slides are tight, but they must be able to move. (One exception is the third valve, which should move easily). Check to make sure that there is a finger ring on the third valve slide that allows the player to put his or her third finger in to adjust the slide while playing. At this point, the condition of the finish isn't essential--it is more for looks than anything else. Very little difference can be heard in the sound quality between a good finish and a poor one. Make sure that all of the soldered joints still are soldered, and have not broken free. Finally, make sure that the instrument fits well in the musician's hands. Make sure that he or she can reach everything, and move the valves with ease. As far as price goes, a good used trumpet can be found for between $150 and $250. For anything less than that price range, double check the instument. Good deals can be found, but that can often signal that something is wrong.
First, neither horn is a reed instrument; they are brass instruments. For a student I would suggest a student version and used. I made the mistake of obtaining every instrument my kids showed a slight interest in and I now have enough to start my own band. I'm just glad my 7 year old still has the chance to pick from the current selection.
One of my kids played trumpet, but after a couple of years the teacher said he was more suited for the baritone (which he was) the school provided the horn, but I needed to get the mouth piece and that was about $40.00.
Good luck and don't forget to check pawn shops and 2nd hand stores!
Oh and one last thing...
If your child is really motivated, a coronet, which is not as popular as a trumpet, may be more in demand for positions in band/orchestra. And may be more attractive to colleges with scholarship $$.
Hi Shell....You couldn't have received any better advise than what these guys are telling you. My only little tidbit I would throw in is the trumpet is easier to play whileridin horseback or mule preferring yer fancy. Now if'n ya need a deal on a clarinet, trombone, saxophone or tuba ..I gotta a deal fer ya. Cory quit em all, took up guitar playin and now is in boot camp writin love letters to his girlfriend and me occassionally ,tellin me he is thinkin about takin up piano lessons!
Thank you everyone. Ted, definately the price range you stated for new is out of the question unless the kid gets a seriouse job and probably the job she just got working on a local farm for the summer 'aint gonna cut it. :blink:
Pawn Shops! Duh me, we always look at pawn shops for stuff; dunno why I hadn't already considered that.
She did guitar lessons last year and didn't practice like she was supposed to and therefore was unprepared for the lessons that I was paying for; I ended the lessons.
This is for middle school band, so it's for a grade, can't just quit, blah blah. Maybe she'll want to play again in next years, maybe not and I would certainly encourage her if she explored other instruments as well. But $150 for a used instrument is very reasonable for a year of band class.
Ron,,If memory serve me right I think I give 2350 fer tha tuba..I'd have to ask Cory if'n he wans to get rid of....He still wakes the neighbor's cow's up wif it sometime. I'll ask him tho if'n yer interested.
Shell I've ordered a lot of things from this company and they are a good outfit Here is a price for a trumpet and a cornet .To see pictures and etc.go to ..musiciansfriend.com and bring up page for band instruments ..brass
[Group Shot]
Kohlert 410L Trumpet
The Kohlert 410L Trumpet is in the key of Bb. 5" bell, adjustable 3rd valve slide with finger ring, nickel double water keys, brass lacquer finish....
Our Price: $199.99 List Price: $399.99
Rating: [Overall: 9.29]
[(main)]
EM Winston Cornet
Key of Bb. Perfect for the budding student, with a shepherd's crook style, .445" bore, excellent response, and precision-crafted valves. Great looks...
All of our kids have used intruments--trumpet, trombone and clarinet. We had them checked out at a local music store(which also does repairs, the trumpet needed a small cork). We spent no more than $150 an instrument. We got the trombone from ebay, the teacher suggested we look for good used brass, not new--I guess some new are less quality. It arrived used but in great condition.
Trombone player is now playing bass trombone??? in the school band and loves it, it has more valves and stuff. We have looked into the price of a used one but they are very expensive, even used. We've decided if child decides to play in college we will make the bass a gift towards the end of high school, since the teacher has one for 'borrow' ( band teacher has quite a private collection), and my kid is the only one who plays it.
Our clarinet player is thinking about a switch to oboe.
Used rentals through the school district are more expensive than what we spent to buy, and not always great quality.
We've been told that rarer intruments do lend toward scholarships etc, and the trumpet player has really been encouraged to learn high notes, since that is a valuable skill with trumpet not all players can do.
I wasn't able to go look at instruments today because we are iced and snowed in around here, probably for tomorrow as well.
I did call the two pawn shops and the one I use all the time has SIX in house and the other one has three, so if we can't find one that will be sufficient, it's our own fault. And indeed, the prices range from $90 to 175.
if i can find my son's cast off trumpet, i'd be happy to make a gift of it to you...but it'll need some work - probably just a mouth piece. I'll make a note to check the back of the closets tomorrow when i have more energy. don't hold your breath or pass up a steal though, we've moved twice since i remember seeing it...might be gone.
Many beginner insturments are made with the keys closer together for smaller hands. A cheap insturment will always sound cheap and will be harder to play/learn on.
I called my wife and she said the place where we have been buying stuff is Woodwins and Brasswins. wwbw.com Best prices I can find.
Ebay is also a good place if you know what your looking for. Be careful whom you buy from. I bought a professional quality keyboard and got ripped. $1500 and it doesnt work. That is above the paypal limit.
Another time we bought a tenor sax for $1900 and got a great deal. Know what your looking for and be an informed buyer.
Don't buy from the people who rent to the schools. We bought a used horn and found that it cost us more than buying it new on line.
Another thing you will find is that they need repair. Find someone who repairs professional quality stuff and take it to them.
Who needs Wallyworld, Sam's Club, eBay etc when ya got PAWN SHOPS?
PAWN SHOPS RULE!!!!
Of course I agree wholeheartley! IMHO, the best time to buy from pawnshop is in June (parents flock to our store trying to dump instruments that the kids never really played).
If you'd like pm me what your looking for and I can get on the horn(yuk yuk) with your local pawn shop and see if I can't work a deal, as we pay 35-50$ for either instrument.
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dmiller
This is a used instrument.
It's worth around 1 million bucks.
I know nothing about coronets, or trumpets, but I would NEVER buy a new instrument.
Give me old ones, every time.
Tried and true. ;)
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dmiller
I need to address this also (if I may). :)
There are two schools of thought about instruments, and beginning students.
One school says buy the cheapest instrument possible, and wait and see if they are committed before buying them a really good one.
The other school (to which I belong) says buy them the best instrument possible because ----
The better instrument sounds better, and inspires the student;
The better instrument is easier to play;
If the beginning student does not continue -- you can always sell a higher quality instrument and recap your initial investment.
I am familiar with stringed instruments, rather than those with reeds -- but I am guessing the *dynamics* are the same.
Go for the best you can afford. You won't regret it. :)
David
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Shellon
Thanks David, what is your reason for never buying a new instrument?
Buying used is usually what we go for, given budget concerns, but you seem to have other reasons, as well.
Might it be the 'broken in' aspect?
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TED Ferrell
The Cornet
[a cornet]
vs.
[a trumpet]
The Trumpet
As far as written music is concerned, the trumpet and cornet are interchangeable. They play in the same key, and usually play identical parts. Often composers, such as Debussy, Rimsky-Korsakov, Vaughan-Williams, and Tchaikovsky, wish to assign separate trumpet and cornet parts in their music (usually three cornet parts and two trumpet parts) in order to display the different characteristics of each instrument. This does not mean that these parts must be played on these instruments, but they should be if they are available to obtain the texture of sound that the composer intended.
The trumpet was the first of the two instruments to evolve, coming from the natural trumpets of the Baroque and Renaissance times. The trumpet's bore diameter (the size of the tubing) remains constant throughout the entire instrument until it reaches the bell. The tubing is also kept as straight as possible in the construction. These two features are very important, because they produce a more open and "bright" sound. Since the 1950's, trumpets have been the dominant instrument in bands and orchestras in America.
The cornet, on the other hand, was developed in the 19th century and was made famous by the cornet virtuoso J.B. Arban of France. His style, phrasing, and technique helped to give the cornet a role as premiere melody instrument along side the flute and violin. For this reason, when both cornet and trumpet parts are called for in a piece of music, the cornet part usually contains most of the technique and flair while the trumpets keep rhythm and fanfares. The tubing on a cornet, as opposed to a trumpet, increases in diameter as the overall length increases (this is called "conical"). The tubing is also wound more compactly, and therefore is not as "free-blowing" as a trumpet. This means that when the player plays, he will feel a slight increase in resistance from the air having to take extra turns in the tubing. As a result of these two factors, the cornet has a more mellow sound than the trumpet. This sound is often called for in many military marches, such as those by Fillmore or Sousa.
The modern cornet is not nearly as mellow as those produced in the 1800's. The primary reason for this was the redesign of cornet mouthpieces by Vincent Bach, to compete with the trumpet in the 1940's and 50's. Older cornet mouthpeices are "V" shaped, instead of having a round cup. This produced a very mellow sound, and many leading orchestral principals still try to play on an old cornet and mouthpeice to obtain the more mellow sound. The problem with old cornet mouthpeices is that they are difficult to play at high dynamic levels or in the upper register, so often it is necessary to switch to a more modern trumpet-like mouthpiece
Old cornets also have a "Shepherd's Crook" in the base of the bell. This bend also helps to give the cornet its wonderful round, dark sound, but has unfortunately been removed from many cornets today. Just now, some manufacturers are re-introducing the "crook" into their construction.
In order to hear what a good cornet sound is, try to seek out good British brass band recordings. Britian is one of the few places that have held on to the old cornet sound, and continues this great tradition of the cornet.
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dmiller
Used to me is good. The instrument has mellowed out, and sounds better than one that is brand new.
Again -- I don't know that much about reed instruments.
But of course, I am speaking about stringed instruments -- where the age of the wood involved (and use there-of) are involved.
Wood mellows out over the years, and constant picking helps the tone to sound better. New instruments don't have that luxury afforded to them (at least stringed instruments).
I know of one luthier up here in Minney-soda that makes mandos and guitars -- And I would not hesitate for an instant to buy one of his brand new.
Even brand new -- his sound like they have been around for 40 or 50 years. :)
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Ron G.
The difference between a cornet and trumpet is the body style gives the cornet a slightly mellower sound while the longer trumet projects more and is a little brassier sounding.
Both are identical otherwise.
I would check out pawn shops and the like. Check it over for severe dents and check to make sure the valves work smoothly and easily. The slides, particulrly the tuning slide, should go in and out easily, although if it's stuck, a good band teacher can fix it.
I wouldn't pay more than $150 for a used one. A Conn or a King might be the best brands to look for as they are suitable for student and will carry the student on through college level and beyond.
Make certain the mouthpiece rim is free of nicks and scratches and has no brassing. A Bach 7C mouthpiece is usually standard for a beginner.
Good Luck!!!
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TED Ferrell
Ok Shell good luck and happy cornet hunting .
New or Used
Frankly, buying a new trumpet or cornet is very costly, especially if you're not sure that the student will stick with it. When you buy a new instrument, which may range from 500 to 1000 dollars for a "beginners's instrument," you are assured of a playable instrument that usually has some type of warranty. Many music stores also may have a rent-to-own plan that may be worthwhile to look into. On the average though, it is usually a good idea to either borrow an instrument from a friend who has quit playing or buy a used trumpet.
When buying used trumpets, check with your director to see if there are any students who have dropped out of the class who might sell their trumpet. This way, the director can tell you if the instrument is in good shape. If there are no instruments available in this fashion, local pawn shops might be a good idea to look into, but you should be prepared and know what to look for when you walk in the door. You should bring with you a bottle of valve oil and slide grease to check everything out. First, inspect the quality of the brass. Are there many dents? A few are fine, but make sure that the bell, leadpipe and valve casings are free from any major dents. Small dents are fine, but large ones will noticeably make the instrument sound different. Next, oil the valves, as outlined in Trumpet Maintenance. After oiling, make sure that all of the valves are free flowing, and that there is no friction. If there is any, don't bother with the instrument, because repairing it will probably cost as much as the instrument. Next, make sure that all of the slides can move. If some don't want to come out, apply some slide grease and a little pressure. It's usually OK if the slides are tight, but they must be able to move. (One exception is the third valve, which should move easily). Check to make sure that there is a finger ring on the third valve slide that allows the player to put his or her third finger in to adjust the slide while playing. At this point, the condition of the finish isn't essential--it is more for looks than anything else. Very little difference can be heard in the sound quality between a good finish and a poor one. Make sure that all of the soldered joints still are soldered, and have not broken free. Finally, make sure that the instrument fits well in the musician's hands. Make sure that he or she can reach everything, and move the valves with ease. As far as price goes, a good used trumpet can be found for between $150 and $250. For anything less than that price range, double check the instument. Good deals can be found, but that can often signal that something is wrong.
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karmicdebt
First, neither horn is a reed instrument; they are brass instruments. For a student I would suggest a student version and used. I made the mistake of obtaining every instrument my kids showed a slight interest in and I now have enough to start my own band. I'm just glad my 7 year old still has the chance to pick from the current selection.
One of my kids played trumpet, but after a couple of years the teacher said he was more suited for the baritone (which he was) the school provided the horn, but I needed to get the mouth piece and that was about $40.00.
Good luck and don't forget to check pawn shops and 2nd hand stores!
Oh and one last thing...
If your child is really motivated, a coronet, which is not as popular as a trumpet, may be more in demand for positions in band/orchestra. And may be more attractive to colleges with scholarship $$.
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Littlehawk
Hi Shell....You couldn't have received any better advise than what these guys are telling you. My only little tidbit I would throw in is the trumpet is easier to play whileridin horseback or mule preferring yer fancy. Now if'n ya need a deal on a clarinet, trombone, saxophone or tuba ..I gotta a deal fer ya. Cory quit em all, took up guitar playin and now is in boot camp writin love letters to his girlfriend and me occassionally ,tellin me he is thinkin about takin up piano lessons!
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dmiller
Shows ya how much I know!!!
Give me wires and wood every time. ;)
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Ron G.
Littlehawk...
How much ya askin for the tuba?
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Shellon
Thank you everyone. Ted, definately the price range you stated for new is out of the question unless the kid gets a seriouse job and probably the job she just got working on a local farm for the summer 'aint gonna cut it. :blink:
Pawn Shops! Duh me, we always look at pawn shops for stuff; dunno why I hadn't already considered that.
She did guitar lessons last year and didn't practice like she was supposed to and therefore was unprepared for the lessons that I was paying for; I ended the lessons.
This is for middle school band, so it's for a grade, can't just quit, blah blah. Maybe she'll want to play again in next years, maybe not and I would certainly encourage her if she explored other instruments as well. But $150 for a used instrument is very reasonable for a year of band class.
Will start looking.
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Littlehawk
Ron,,If memory serve me right I think I give 2350 fer tha tuba..I'd have to ask Cory if'n he wans to get rid of....He still wakes the neighbor's cow's up wif it sometime. I'll ask him tho if'n yer interested.
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dmiller
One of these:
will not win friends, or influence enemies ---
But DANG!!! They are a lot of fun to pick! .......... :)
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TED Ferrell
Shell I've ordered a lot of things from this company and they are a good outfit Here is a price for a trumpet and a cornet .To see pictures and etc.go to ..musiciansfriend.com and bring up page for band instruments ..brass
[Group Shot]
Kohlert 410L Trumpet
The Kohlert 410L Trumpet is in the key of Bb. 5" bell, adjustable 3rd valve slide with finger ring, nickel double water keys, brass lacquer finish....
Our Price: $199.99 List Price: $399.99
Rating: [Overall: 9.29]
[(main)]
EM Winston Cornet
Key of Bb. Perfect for the budding student, with a shepherd's crook style, .445" bore, excellent response, and precision-crafted valves. Great looks...
Our Price: $419.99 List Price: $650.00
Rating: [Overall: 9.00]
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Bramble
All of our kids have used intruments--trumpet, trombone and clarinet. We had them checked out at a local music store(which also does repairs, the trumpet needed a small cork). We spent no more than $150 an instrument. We got the trombone from ebay, the teacher suggested we look for good used brass, not new--I guess some new are less quality. It arrived used but in great condition.
Trombone player is now playing bass trombone??? in the school band and loves it, it has more valves and stuff. We have looked into the price of a used one but they are very expensive, even used. We've decided if child decides to play in college we will make the bass a gift towards the end of high school, since the teacher has one for 'borrow' ( band teacher has quite a private collection), and my kid is the only one who plays it.
Our clarinet player is thinking about a switch to oboe.
Used rentals through the school district are more expensive than what we spent to buy, and not always great quality.
We've been told that rarer intruments do lend toward scholarships etc, and the trumpet player has really been encouraged to learn high notes, since that is a valuable skill with trumpet not all players can do.
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marypoppins
Shell
This is just my opinion, Few years ago my daughter wanted to learn to play clarenet,
She was also offered to hire one from the school, but her auntie who is a musician, and
plays many instruments, advised us to buy a new one.
To be honest there really wasnt that much difference in price, and obviously if its new and
you keep the reciept, if your daughter does decide to give it up, you can sell it on.
I think its great when kids take a interest in music, and i know you might wanna buy a shed
for the bottom of the garden to........ then when shes learning she can go play far far away. LOL
Also ear muffs come in handy, for the first few weeks.
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Shellon
Ear muffs. LOLOL Hadn't thought of that, but I'm sure I would have.
HA!
:unsure:
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Shellon
I wasn't able to go look at instruments today because we are iced and snowed in around here, probably for tomorrow as well.
I did call the two pawn shops and the one I use all the time has SIX in house and the other one has three, so if we can't find one that will be sufficient, it's our own fault. And indeed, the prices range from $90 to 175.
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Ron G.
Who needs Wallyworld, Sam's Club, eBay etc when ya got PAWN SHOPS?
PAWN SHOPS RULE!!!!
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nellie
shell,
if i can find my son's cast off trumpet, i'd be happy to make a gift of it to you...but it'll need some work - probably just a mouth piece. I'll make a note to check the back of the closets tomorrow when i have more energy. don't hold your breath or pass up a steal though, we've moved twice since i remember seeing it...might be gone.
or is kelly stuck to the coronet thing?
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Shellon
Thanks Nellie, we'd love to have your sons instrument if you locate it.
No, she's not stuck on the coronet or trumpet, it's a matter of me calling it one thing, she another.
Please advise if you can get your hands on it and let me know about shipping costs.
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ex70sHouston
Some thoughts.
Many beginner insturments are made with the keys closer together for smaller hands. A cheap insturment will always sound cheap and will be harder to play/learn on.
I called my wife and she said the place where we have been buying stuff is Woodwins and Brasswins. wwbw.com Best prices I can find.
Ebay is also a good place if you know what your looking for. Be careful whom you buy from. I bought a professional quality keyboard and got ripped. $1500 and it doesnt work. That is above the paypal limit.
Another time we bought a tenor sax for $1900 and got a great deal. Know what your looking for and be an informed buyer.
Don't buy from the people who rent to the schools. We bought a used horn and found that it cost us more than buying it new on line.
Another thing you will find is that they need repair. Find someone who repairs professional quality stuff and take it to them.
Finally woodwins rule and brass drulls.
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sharon
Of course I agree wholeheartley! IMHO, the best time to buy from pawnshop is in June (parents flock to our store trying to dump instruments that the kids never really played).
If you'd like pm me what your looking for and I can get on the horn(yuk yuk) with your local pawn shop and see if I can't work a deal, as we pay 35-50$ for either instrument.
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