I have been catching up on some of the posts here and just wanted to let you know that we also faced the same trials that you face. I knew in my heart that God would honor any decision my husband and I made and that The Body of Christ would still continue to function. We did not know what God had in store for us but we knew that living with TWI was not going to be the best route to move God's Word.
There would be too many questions and things to explain to new people and their families because people will ultimately check out the web site. So we decided that God had to be first and his Word had to come before good friends, even if they were believers. We never felt bitter toward those in our fellowships and most from our area also left soon after. Now we continue to fellowship, just don't have a title. The Word is hot and moving again and God's agenda is being fullfilled.
So that's really what it comes down to. What is the best for moving the Word and growth in your own lives and that of your children. It would actually be good for them to learn that God comes first. The burden put on believers from TWI is unrealistic. Most who are in do not even know what happened so they would have a very hard time disputing with new people who may have checked them out. God does not want this added stress in a believer's life. He wants us blessed in moving His word. If people will come with a huge load of doubt, the manifestations will not flow, deliverance and healing will not happen as readily as if people are certain of the Word they are taught. The TWI would be better changing their whole structure, changing their name and moving on, instead of hanging onto MAN MADE traditions.
So that's what we did, we put God 1st and never looked back. We still have great relationships with many believers and God will guide you also to where YOUR ministry can function to it's best.
love you and God bless your hearts for wanting to see his Word alive and moving again.
Tell them the truth as they can receive it. Just like you talked to them about every thing else in life, according to their age, reception ability, etc. as you know your children.
They'll ask questions and will even lead the conversation as you begin. Kids can handle the truth, absolutely. And as you've already seen, they can well imagine much worse than the truth that we can just tell em straight.
I wouldn't so anything wothout the knowledge and agreement of your spouse. as parents it is important that you present a united front, especilly to teenagers.
I have children who are in their twenties and also some teens left.
Evan is right about the "united front" of parents, in a perfect world all parents would be able to have communication that works best for everyone.
BUT
It isnt as easy when your divorced or the marriaged is stressed in some manner, and communication is strained within the marriage.
I just went through this in my own life concerning TWI and other organizations I exposed my children to.
IT is difficult to explain the past that I at times still do not always get the why or have a solid answer .
My ex's (yes more than one ) just leave one another alone on choices we made good or bad.
do not go to a place of personal attack or justification of your own personal choice.
who knows someone you or her may change your mind radically some day and have to be sorry for the words said about another you and/or certainly they love.
Teens will pit you against one another, as EVan implied. they run the world ya know and have all the answers on how it should be anyway lol!
We frankly do not have conversations about the other at their expense. If they question what the other parents has done or is doing I say "Sounds like your really confused on why they would do or say such a thing (stay engaged) maybe you can ask (spouse) how they feel about it now.
If you differ (and my ex's and I do differ , we did get divorced for reasons..) I say this is my thoughts on the subject: other people mom, dad may believe or feel differently about the subject . The child needs to work out the questions with them on the subject and reach their own thoughts concerning the subject.
Respect the other parent as the childrens parent even if you feel they are WRONG . Of course not in the case of abuse, but as far as what religous choices you children are exposed to, both parents can and will have a say in the matter. The kids will reach their own choice as well. and all may be very different from the other! I know this is hard to believe when your used to having all the kids at home and the family life is encased in co-dependency but trust me they to grow up to be free thinking adults one day.
Teens are amazing, they really do think and I admire their ability to sort through their own life with clarity and deep thoughtfulness , as much at it may seem they HAATE you , they really do not .
They know better than you when they are not able to handle the decisions before them and spend YEARS putting out feelers of just how do I become a real adult in diguise of knowing it all . haha
Then one day they do know and then they are gone ,grown up and wonderful people who love you forever.
As far as your own feelings Shellon is RIGHT be honest. You can not get away with anything with young adults and teens they do stay up at night and think of ways to freak you out !!! please God the memories and still at times with my youngest the reality of just how testy this time can be for parents.
So be honest, work on your own position to be strong enough to be sure and then you will know the answer to any question .
children/teens do not need huge history they tend to live in the current drama of that day , oh God my hair is messed up type of panick is far more important than whether Jesus is God at this point!
You said you want to look at this from their point of view... um how do I say this ?
Are you their friend looking for companionship and support for your position or choice? or are you an adult making solid good choices for your own life? Parents need to remember their ROLE in their childrens life, and even if they are six foot tall and can drive and look and talk like a grown up they are NOT, and still need you to be the GROWN up who can help them, not just another searching person struggling with why and just what life is. they have enough peers, they need adults and grown up people to teach them how to make good choices for their own life by example.
if you ever do want them to seek Jesus Christ as LORD, then take you own self off the throne God gave to only HIM in life. Mom or dad are not the answer to life and what it is all about is Jesus Christ . He is a personal Saviour, and God wants a relationship with EACH of His children.
That means a parent must teach a teen/child they do not have all the answers, but God does.
These posts are really helping....remembering my place as the parent, reinforcing what I already know to be true about my kids, remembering trust,... The cobwebs are moving around some. I do so appreciate your thoughts. Please keep them coming.
One is that it's all right to say, "I was wrong" to your kids. This came up when parents who had done drugs asked how they could possibly tell their kids not to do them. I think it teaches a huge lesson to tell them you got involved in an organization without knowing everything, but that when you found out enough to convince you, you got out. I think it teaches that you do not have to feel trapped in a bad situation. God wouldn't want you to honor a commitment when the other party (TWI) never intended to honor theirs.
I also think you could speak to what you DO honor and believe. TWI is a not-for-profit corporation, not the Body of Christ, and not the only individuals worthy of your kindness. What do you believe, and how do you live your life? The kids need to see that you have left an organization, but that the important parts about being a good and godly person are still a part of you. As young adults, they will adopt as much of your lifestyle as they think is relevant in theirs, but you will be surprised at how much of the essence of what you are about will show up in them.
All I can truly add, is like many others, twi was hurting me and my family, I think it's within a
mothers nature to protect her family, It's our job..
Your children are at a very understanding age, and in my opinion old enough to understand your
heart. But it must be a joint decision, Praying about the situation, and letting God move.
I had the same experience as you... I left first, but my children were young and never went to
fellowship with out myself or husband. So not quite so independant as your children.
Many things brought me to this point, like you it didn't happen over night, we were taught if
we left the confines of twi God would leave us................................. What a load of rubbish.
It was a fear trip and the adversary is the author of FEAR. False Evidence Appearing Real.
We are followers are the Lord Jesus Christ, not a Ministry. I first shared my heart with GOD,
and then my Husband, like you the people we fellowshipped with were Lovely People, beautiful
hearts, being hurt, unsure what was going on, but knowing things were changing.
I can only talk of my situation and now 10years later how things have changed for us,
We missed the fellowship very much, and started to run family fellowships, for family and close
friends, but obviously God had more instore, We held forth his word to all that wanted to hear,
we have no ministry, just home fellowships, loving people, helping people, and encouraging them,
when they feel ready we help them to run there own fellowships, we live as a extended family,
breaking bread at least once a week, we hire a hall and have large fellowships,
with different teachers, we are there for each other, and what a sweet time of fellowship it is.
I still needed God in my life, and so did my Husband and children.
I personnally don't like running people down, None of us are perfect and we all make mistakes, but i wont have my family hurt, i have a big heart for God and his family, and still miss the old days, the sweet
time of fellowship we had, and miss alot of the old friends that left twi and left God to.
But that is everyones choice, I never blame anyone for what went on, sometimes i blame myself
for being so naive, but i am thankful to God for giving us the strength to turn a bad situation into
something so beautiful and loving, Gone is the legalistic, judgemental, self rightousness, and with
open arms we welcomed, humbleness, meekness, and strength.
Our home doors are open to anyone that wants to know God and be apart of God's Family.
We would never turn anyone away that has a desire to know God.
Myself and Husband will pray for you and your family, that God will lay on your heart the best way
to handle your situation, and if there is anything we can do for you let RAF know and i will give him
Do I KNOW that D. M**nyh*n knew what was happening and covered for LCM? Do I KNOW that? I have to admit that I don't know that.
This is a side note to that - One could call Dottie and ask her. I think she would admit to it now having been caught and with so many people who DO know for sure that she did cover for the atrocities. I also know the people who she initially lied to and I trust their word. That's me, though. And I completely understand how that's not good enough for someone who really wants to defend TWI. It wasn't good enough for my ex either.
Honestly, the people who WANT to stay in TWI because they think TWI is "the true household", the ones who are AFRAID to leave TWI and those who are truly sold out kool-aid drinkers aren't really going to believe anything they don't want to believe, especially something nasty about their true love - TWI.
That being said, kids usually pick up on a lot more things than adults do. They also can believe and understand more outlandish claims - which is what these horrible things of TWI seem to be for someone who wasn't directly affected by the abuse. I'd say talk to them about the things in YOUR heart and why YOU made the decision that you did. Let them ask questions and talk about how they feel. Chances are, they may not have the background that you do from having read experiences on here, but they recognize some abuses going on in the local area or people just not being treated well. They may have been feeling that "something's just not right" but not know what or why.
Give them GSpot's web address and let them look around. I tried to talk to my ex, but he would have none of it. He didn't want to know and wouldn't believe me. He also tried to justify their abuses by saying that people aren't perfect. Fine, they aren't, but no one with their behavior, qualities and bad reputations should be given the oversight of God's flock.
I thought showing the actions of TWI leadership compared to Chapter & Verse qualifications and such in the Bible was the "logical" way my ex thought and that if I could show they are not only teaching wrongly divided scriptures but also that they don't practice what they preach and what God really says, that he would see the light. That didn't work either.
He may see it, but doesn't want to recognize it. You'll have to evaluate what your kids really think about TWI and about leaving TWI. Share with them what concerns them the most. It may not be the things that concern you the most, but you have enough information to at least get started with them. If you need/want personal accounts from people you feel you can trust and believe, then let us know. Some people here are willing to share on that level in private conversations. I was in the process of setting up a "meeting" with my ex and some of the former leaders that he highly respected and was shocked to see leave TWI. Those are people he would believe when he wouldn't believe me, his wife. I think he would have fought them and called them liars initially, but that he would have pondered it and probably come around eventually, but not as my husband. My concerns were people and lives being ruined and leadership lying about and not taking care of people. His biggest concern was the rightly divided word. People getting hurt wasn't something he believed happened for real, but also didn't really seem to care about that ( :( ) regardless, even, of the situations he did believe happend and actually experienced.
Trust God then teach them the Word regarding good believers that left God. Also I agree whit Shellon, tell them the truth, step by step. If they are interested God will showb you and them the way.
I also think you could speak to what you DO honor and believe. TWI is a not-for-profit corporation, not the Body of Christ, and not the only individuals worthy of your kindness. What do you believe, and how do you live your life?
That's the biggie to me. I guess I would wonder if your kids perceive a problem, do they ask "why don't we go to the Way's fellowships anymore?", etc.
The answer could be as simple as "things change". You change. You want to keep your lives and family moving in the right direction. It's a big world, lots of things to learn, explore, consider, try.
If you needed a bigger house, would you move? If you needed to relocate to reduce travel to work, or be near good schools or have more space to do the things you like, would you move? You might miss some of the things about the place you move from, but you'd be thrilled with the things you get with the new house.
You didn't leave based solely on anything you've heard from other people. You left because -
-you disagreed with some of the teachings, things like -the debt policy, the rediculous assumption that they are the True Household of God or whatever they call it now, and other things like the behavior of the President of the Way that's never been fully explained or addressed....
I don't know the ages of your kids, but those are things that are simple to express. Because in the way, if you disagree on too much it's hard to be able to stay and participate in the things you agree with. Plus, if the things you disagree with are really unacceptable it informs everything and you feel like you do, uncomfortable with the whole thing. That's normal, I think.
Frankly, IMO you don't have to tell them that it's been said that the Way's run by lesbians, or that it's been reported that so and so did such and such. You don't know that for sure, and may never. How many people honestly do know that, and a lot of the other things that are posted here, or spoken about across the country by many, many people?
What you do know is- well, what you know. And that's enough. That's where you live and that's what you speak to.
The fact the Way has so many strikes against it, over so many years and in so many many different categories and not by just one person, but consistently - it's hard to consider and not wonder what the heck's been going on. People do make mistakes. I do, anyway. But these men and women are dealing with YOUR life, telling you and anyone who will listen what to do and how to do it. They have a responsibility if they're going to do that to remain open about their own limitations and strengths and be honest about it, otherwise trust is hard to establish. And what would help you and a lot of others would be if the officers of the Way would speak to those things, openly and honestly, to help their people. It would be the right thing to do.
But they won't do it. That says something, I think.
My .02 cents, and I know your heart knows the words to speak, the ones that mean something to you and to your family. No prob.
Thank you all (Lorna, Shell, Evan, DMiller, Pond, Belle, Power, Mary Poppins, Socks, Shaz, Themex, Raf, and anybody I forgot to mention) for your hearfelt responses. I think I have enough feedback now to ponder, sort, and help in composing how to talk with my kids. Honesty & trust...yeh, honesty & trust. I'm not sure WHEN that time will be, but I foresee it in the no-to-distant future. If appropriate, I will post how things develop and transpire. I know God will help; He always has.
'Well, what about all the abuse that has gone on? There are no words sufficient to fully communicate the humiliation and torment that some folks have experienced. Yet these incidents were in the past. People change. God is merciful. Life goes on. TWI has "changed."
The issue has never been, at least for me, whether people can change. They can I most certainly have. The issue has always been for me TWI's total and complete unwillingness to admit they ever did anything wrong--and even when caught with their hands in the cookie jar so to speak continue to quote what you just said.
The people in TWI we have been involved with are good people.
How fortunate for you, but then there always have been good people in TWI unfortunately leadership is usually not in that group
Perhaps the folks abused are exaggerating.
Of course we are, it was all just a nasty dream,
If we turn from TWI aren't we acting judgmentally & harshly...just to leave our fellowship and friends
SO if you Leave TWI you automatically leave your friends and fellowshipping with them???
News Alert you can fellowship with friends in more ways than Just over the Bible. If Not going to TWI's HFC means you can't fellowship with your friends then you have just pr oven that TWI is the same as yesterday.
If this post sounds harsh -too bad--but as I reread what you have written I become less and less convinced of the sincerity of your post and see more amd more an attempt at justifying TWI
My kids are grown now. Looking back, I definitely have some regrets about things that we taught them regarding the "Household of God". Why? Because when my husband and I were Marked and Avoided, the clergy went to our two oldest kids, and told them to Mark and Avoid us too. One of these kids asked the right questions and quickly realized that the leadership had lied about us. This kid then dumped TWI and reunited with us. However, our oldest child, then age 25, did exactly as we had taught her to do, growing up in the Way Ministry - she stayed faithful to the Way - and essentially shunned us, her heart-broken parents. Years passed with no communication. Mail was returned to us. Phone calls were screened by her believer-roommates. Finally, one day she made contact us. We felt like we had been given a child back from the dead. But our relationship has never fully recovered.
In your attempt to do the right thing for your children, don't risk losing them.
My advice to you, regardless of whether you stay with TWI or leave, PLEASE make sure your kids know that Family is more important than faithfulness to TWI. Of course they must love God above all, but devotion to the family takes precedence over TWI.
Heartfelt thanks again for all your input, suggestions, and prayers. I pasted and copied pertinent suggestions. I contemplated and wrote, and contemplated and wrote, and prayed and wrote, etc. You get the picture. I personally contacted some of you that responded. I thank you.
I discussed with my spouse (still a "partial" innie) that we need to have this discussion with our teens. Spouse agreed. The disclosure with the teens was a little rough. We talked things out for about 1-1/2 hours. The teens expressed their insights/feelings. My spouse expressed hers/his. I expressed mine. Even though it was a little rocky, it was wholesome. One teen was confused but seemed relieved that "stuff" was being discussed.
The outcome? (for now) Spouse still goes a few times a month to TWI. One teen is keeping a distance from TWI. One teen goes with spouse. At least two times a month we hold a non-TWI fellowship in our home...and are inviting other people. (Some folks are asking what I am doing since I left.) Interestingly none of the family (spouse or teens) wants to take the new TWI class in March.
An insight from one of my teens (with a tearful quiver in the voice): "Whenever the old fogies in (TWI) get together, it is like they are all hiding something. I've felt that way for years. When the (TWI) teens get together it's not that way." (BTW: The TWI teen only gather (for a teen gathering) about once every 3 to 4 months.)
Also, God has been opening doors of other avenues for my teens to fellowship with believers outside TWI....Christian coffee house and teen gatherings at a local church. I didn't arrange any of these get togethers, the teens got calls (out of the "blue") from friends inviting them.
So thanks again for helping me through this difficult task. It ain't over yet but the wheels are turning in a good direction.
Spouse agreed. The disclosure with the teens was a little rough. We talked things out for about 1-1/2 hours. The teens expressed their insights/feelings. My spouse expressed hers/his. I expressed mine. Even though it was a little rocky, it was wholesome. One teen was confused but seemed relieved that "stuff" was being discussed.
The outcome? (for now) Spouse still goes a few times a month to TWI. One teen is keeping a distance from TWI. One teen goes with spouse. At least two times a month we hold a non-TWI fellowship in our home...and are inviting other people.
Quandary -- that is fantastic! Keep loving them into living! :)
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dmiller
Raf --- thank you for posting this.
I am praying ...
praying....
praying...
For this person who has questions,
And looking for answers.
David
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LornaDoone
Hi,
I have been catching up on some of the posts here and just wanted to let you know that we also faced the same trials that you face. I knew in my heart that God would honor any decision my husband and I made and that The Body of Christ would still continue to function. We did not know what God had in store for us but we knew that living with TWI was not going to be the best route to move God's Word.
There would be too many questions and things to explain to new people and their families because people will ultimately check out the web site. So we decided that God had to be first and his Word had to come before good friends, even if they were believers. We never felt bitter toward those in our fellowships and most from our area also left soon after. Now we continue to fellowship, just don't have a title. The Word is hot and moving again and God's agenda is being fullfilled.
So that's really what it comes down to. What is the best for moving the Word and growth in your own lives and that of your children. It would actually be good for them to learn that God comes first. The burden put on believers from TWI is unrealistic. Most who are in do not even know what happened so they would have a very hard time disputing with new people who may have checked them out. God does not want this added stress in a believer's life. He wants us blessed in moving His word. If people will come with a huge load of doubt, the manifestations will not flow, deliverance and healing will not happen as readily as if people are certain of the Word they are taught. The TWI would be better changing their whole structure, changing their name and moving on, instead of hanging onto MAN MADE traditions.
So that's what we did, we put God 1st and never looked back. We still have great relationships with many believers and God will guide you also to where YOUR ministry can function to it's best.
love you and God bless your hearts for wanting to see his Word alive and moving again.
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Shellon
Tell them the truth as they can receive it. Just like you talked to them about every thing else in life, according to their age, reception ability, etc. as you know your children.
They'll ask questions and will even lead the conversation as you begin. Kids can handle the truth, absolutely. And as you've already seen, they can well imagine much worse than the truth that we can just tell em straight.
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TheEvan
I wouldn't so anything wothout the knowledge and agreement of your spouse. as parents it is important that you present a united front, especilly to teenagers.
That's my take...
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pond
I have children who are in their twenties and also some teens left.
Evan is right about the "united front" of parents, in a perfect world all parents would be able to have communication that works best for everyone.
BUT
It isnt as easy when your divorced or the marriaged is stressed in some manner, and communication is strained within the marriage.
I just went through this in my own life concerning TWI and other organizations I exposed my children to.
IT is difficult to explain the past that I at times still do not always get the why or have a solid answer .
My ex's (yes more than one ) just leave one another alone on choices we made good or bad.
do not go to a place of personal attack or justification of your own personal choice.
who knows someone you or her may change your mind radically some day and have to be sorry for the words said about another you and/or certainly they love.
Teens will pit you against one another, as EVan implied. they run the world ya know and have all the answers on how it should be anyway lol!
We frankly do not have conversations about the other at their expense. If they question what the other parents has done or is doing I say "Sounds like your really confused on why they would do or say such a thing (stay engaged) maybe you can ask (spouse) how they feel about it now.
If you differ (and my ex's and I do differ , we did get divorced for reasons..) I say this is my thoughts on the subject: other people mom, dad may believe or feel differently about the subject . The child needs to work out the questions with them on the subject and reach their own thoughts concerning the subject.
Respect the other parent as the childrens parent even if you feel they are WRONG . Of course not in the case of abuse, but as far as what religous choices you children are exposed to, both parents can and will have a say in the matter. The kids will reach their own choice as well. and all may be very different from the other! I know this is hard to believe when your used to having all the kids at home and the family life is encased in co-dependency but trust me they to grow up to be free thinking adults one day.
Teens are amazing, they really do think and I admire their ability to sort through their own life with clarity and deep thoughtfulness , as much at it may seem they HAATE you , they really do not .
They know better than you when they are not able to handle the decisions before them and spend YEARS putting out feelers of just how do I become a real adult in diguise of knowing it all . haha
Then one day they do know and then they are gone ,grown up and wonderful people who love you forever.
As far as your own feelings Shellon is RIGHT be honest. You can not get away with anything with young adults and teens they do stay up at night and think of ways to freak you out !!! please God the memories and still at times with my youngest the reality of just how testy this time can be for parents.
So be honest, work on your own position to be strong enough to be sure and then you will know the answer to any question .
children/teens do not need huge history they tend to live in the current drama of that day , oh God my hair is messed up type of panick is far more important than whether Jesus is God at this point!
You said you want to look at this from their point of view... um how do I say this ?
Are you their friend looking for companionship and support for your position or choice? or are you an adult making solid good choices for your own life? Parents need to remember their ROLE in their childrens life, and even if they are six foot tall and can drive and look and talk like a grown up they are NOT, and still need you to be the GROWN up who can help them, not just another searching person struggling with why and just what life is. they have enough peers, they need adults and grown up people to teach them how to make good choices for their own life by example.
if you ever do want them to seek Jesus Christ as LORD, then take you own self off the throne God gave to only HIM in life. Mom or dad are not the answer to life and what it is all about is Jesus Christ . He is a personal Saviour, and God wants a relationship with EACH of His children.
That means a parent must teach a teen/child they do not have all the answers, but God does.
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Raf
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shazdancer
Hi, "Quandry," a coupla thoughts...
One is that it's all right to say, "I was wrong" to your kids. This came up when parents who had done drugs asked how they could possibly tell their kids not to do them. I think it teaches a huge lesson to tell them you got involved in an organization without knowing everything, but that when you found out enough to convince you, you got out. I think it teaches that you do not have to feel trapped in a bad situation. God wouldn't want you to honor a commitment when the other party (TWI) never intended to honor theirs.
I also think you could speak to what you DO honor and believe. TWI is a not-for-profit corporation, not the Body of Christ, and not the only individuals worthy of your kindness. What do you believe, and how do you live your life? The kids need to see that you have left an organization, but that the important parts about being a good and godly person are still a part of you. As young adults, they will adopt as much of your lifestyle as they think is relevant in theirs, but you will be surprised at how much of the essence of what you are about will show up in them.
Regards,
Shaz
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marypoppins
All I can truly add, is like many others, twi was hurting me and my family, I think it's within a
mothers nature to protect her family, It's our job..
Your children are at a very understanding age, and in my opinion old enough to understand your
heart. But it must be a joint decision, Praying about the situation, and letting God move.
I had the same experience as you... I left first, but my children were young and never went to
fellowship with out myself or husband. So not quite so independant as your children.
Many things brought me to this point, like you it didn't happen over night, we were taught if
we left the confines of twi God would leave us................................. What a load of rubbish.
It was a fear trip and the adversary is the author of FEAR. False Evidence Appearing Real.
We are followers are the Lord Jesus Christ, not a Ministry. I first shared my heart with GOD,
and then my Husband, like you the people we fellowshipped with were Lovely People, beautiful
hearts, being hurt, unsure what was going on, but knowing things were changing.
I can only talk of my situation and now 10years later how things have changed for us,
We missed the fellowship very much, and started to run family fellowships, for family and close
friends, but obviously God had more instore, We held forth his word to all that wanted to hear,
we have no ministry, just home fellowships, loving people, helping people, and encouraging them,
when they feel ready we help them to run there own fellowships, we live as a extended family,
breaking bread at least once a week, we hire a hall and have large fellowships,
with different teachers, we are there for each other, and what a sweet time of fellowship it is.
I still needed God in my life, and so did my Husband and children.
I personnally don't like running people down, None of us are perfect and we all make mistakes, but i wont have my family hurt, i have a big heart for God and his family, and still miss the old days, the sweet
time of fellowship we had, and miss alot of the old friends that left twi and left God to.
But that is everyones choice, I never blame anyone for what went on, sometimes i blame myself
for being so naive, but i am thankful to God for giving us the strength to turn a bad situation into
something so beautiful and loving, Gone is the legalistic, judgemental, self rightousness, and with
open arms we welcomed, humbleness, meekness, and strength.
Our home doors are open to anyone that wants to know God and be apart of God's Family.
We would never turn anyone away that has a desire to know God.
Myself and Husband will pray for you and your family, that God will lay on your heart the best way
to handle your situation, and if there is anything we can do for you let RAF know and i will give him
my email to give to you
Love your sister-in-christ from over the water.
Kim
xxx God Bless You
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powerfilled
We will pray for you and your family.
God will make a way out for you all.
I believe your children will understand your heart,
and you will work things out.
your in our prayers
God Bless
Love
Powerfilled
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Raf
Shaz,
Thanks for the idea. Let's call this person Quandry. Or Quandary, if you're feeling particularly grammatical. :)
Raf
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shazdancer
Hey, it was your cut-and-paste that spelled it "quandry," I just went with that.
Just call me a play-jurist, er, plagerist, er, plagiarist....
:D
Shaz
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Belle
This is a side note to that - One could call Dottie and ask her. I think she would admit to it now having been caught and with so many people who DO know for sure that she did cover for the atrocities. I also know the people who she initially lied to and I trust their word. That's me, though. And I completely understand how that's not good enough for someone who really wants to defend TWI. It wasn't good enough for my ex either.
Honestly, the people who WANT to stay in TWI because they think TWI is "the true household", the ones who are AFRAID to leave TWI and those who are truly sold out kool-aid drinkers aren't really going to believe anything they don't want to believe, especially something nasty about their true love - TWI.
That being said, kids usually pick up on a lot more things than adults do. They also can believe and understand more outlandish claims - which is what these horrible things of TWI seem to be for someone who wasn't directly affected by the abuse. I'd say talk to them about the things in YOUR heart and why YOU made the decision that you did. Let them ask questions and talk about how they feel. Chances are, they may not have the background that you do from having read experiences on here, but they recognize some abuses going on in the local area or people just not being treated well. They may have been feeling that "something's just not right" but not know what or why.
Give them GSpot's web address and let them look around. I tried to talk to my ex, but he would have none of it. He didn't want to know and wouldn't believe me. He also tried to justify their abuses by saying that people aren't perfect. Fine, they aren't, but no one with their behavior, qualities and bad reputations should be given the oversight of God's flock.
I thought showing the actions of TWI leadership compared to Chapter & Verse qualifications and such in the Bible was the "logical" way my ex thought and that if I could show they are not only teaching wrongly divided scriptures but also that they don't practice what they preach and what God really says, that he would see the light. That didn't work either.
He may see it, but doesn't want to recognize it. You'll have to evaluate what your kids really think about TWI and about leaving TWI. Share with them what concerns them the most. It may not be the things that concern you the most, but you have enough information to at least get started with them. If you need/want personal accounts from people you feel you can trust and believe, then let us know. Some people here are willing to share on that level in private conversations. I was in the process of setting up a "meeting" with my ex and some of the former leaders that he highly respected and was shocked to see leave TWI. Those are people he would believe when he wouldn't believe me, his wife. I think he would have fought them and called them liars initially, but that he would have pondered it and probably come around eventually, but not as my husband. My concerns were people and lives being ruined and leadership lying about and not taking care of people. His biggest concern was the rightly divided word. People getting hurt wasn't something he believed happened for real, but also didn't really seem to care about that ( :( ) regardless, even, of the situations he did believe happend and actually experienced.
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themex
Trust God then teach them the Word regarding good believers that left God. Also I agree whit Shellon, tell them the truth, step by step. If they are interested God will showb you and them the way.
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socks
That's the biggie to me. I guess I would wonder if your kids perceive a problem, do they ask "why don't we go to the Way's fellowships anymore?", etc.
The answer could be as simple as "things change". You change. You want to keep your lives and family moving in the right direction. It's a big world, lots of things to learn, explore, consider, try.
If you needed a bigger house, would you move? If you needed to relocate to reduce travel to work, or be near good schools or have more space to do the things you like, would you move? You might miss some of the things about the place you move from, but you'd be thrilled with the things you get with the new house.
You didn't leave based solely on anything you've heard from other people. You left because -
-you disagreed with some of the teachings, things like -the debt policy, the rediculous assumption that they are the True Household of God or whatever they call it now, and other things like the behavior of the President of the Way that's never been fully explained or addressed....
I don't know the ages of your kids, but those are things that are simple to express. Because in the way, if you disagree on too much it's hard to be able to stay and participate in the things you agree with. Plus, if the things you disagree with are really unacceptable it informs everything and you feel like you do, uncomfortable with the whole thing. That's normal, I think.
Frankly, IMO you don't have to tell them that it's been said that the Way's run by lesbians, or that it's been reported that so and so did such and such. You don't know that for sure, and may never. How many people honestly do know that, and a lot of the other things that are posted here, or spoken about across the country by many, many people?
What you do know is- well, what you know. And that's enough. That's where you live and that's what you speak to.
The fact the Way has so many strikes against it, over so many years and in so many many different categories and not by just one person, but consistently - it's hard to consider and not wonder what the heck's been going on. People do make mistakes. I do, anyway. But these men and women are dealing with YOUR life, telling you and anyone who will listen what to do and how to do it. They have a responsibility if they're going to do that to remain open about their own limitations and strengths and be honest about it, otherwise trust is hard to establish. And what would help you and a lot of others would be if the officers of the Way would speak to those things, openly and honestly, to help their people. It would be the right thing to do.
But they won't do it. That says something, I think.
My .02 cents, and I know your heart knows the words to speak, the ones that mean something to you and to your family. No prob.
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Raf
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templelady
How fortunate for you, but then there always have been good people in TWI unfortunately leadership is usually not in that group
Of course we are, it was all just a nasty dream,SO if you Leave TWI you automatically leave your friends and fellowshipping with them???
News Alert you can fellowship with friends in more ways than Just over the Bible. If Not going to TWI's HFC means you can't fellowship with your friends then you have just pr oven that TWI is the same as yesterday.
If this post sounds harsh -too bad--but as I reread what you have written I become less and less convinced of the sincerity of your post and see more amd more an attempt at justifying TWI
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Xena
My kids are grown now. Looking back, I definitely have some regrets about things that we taught them regarding the "Household of God". Why? Because when my husband and I were Marked and Avoided, the clergy went to our two oldest kids, and told them to Mark and Avoid us too. One of these kids asked the right questions and quickly realized that the leadership had lied about us. This kid then dumped TWI and reunited with us. However, our oldest child, then age 25, did exactly as we had taught her to do, growing up in the Way Ministry - she stayed faithful to the Way - and essentially shunned us, her heart-broken parents. Years passed with no communication. Mail was returned to us. Phone calls were screened by her believer-roommates. Finally, one day she made contact us. We felt like we had been given a child back from the dead. But our relationship has never fully recovered.
In your attempt to do the right thing for your children, don't risk losing them.
My advice to you, regardless of whether you stay with TWI or leave, PLEASE make sure your kids know that Family is more important than faithfulness to TWI. Of course they must love God above all, but devotion to the family takes precedence over TWI.
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Raf
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dmiller
Quandary -- that is fantastic! Keep loving them into living! :)
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