The letter by John R is typical of the actions that MANY took during their days of concern, before they left twi....and Rozilla'z response was also typical of how twi handled honest questions by sincere people.
It would seem to me that after 20 years of faithful service, he deserved some honest answers instead of the eyewash and veiled threats that he received.
Heck, the terse bs letter isn't peculiar to Rosalie. I had written a letter to "The Teacher" asking why he had let me down, after 10 years of faithful ministry service, WOW, Corps, and briefly Staff. I think it was 2 pages long, very heartfelt, and very respectful.
He blew me off, called me bitter, did not speak at all to my questions.
As to John's concerns, let's see what happened to his points since they kicked him out:
1.) Thousands of believers (along with their abundant sharing) have unnecessarily left or been forced out of the ministry and far fewer have joined in their places. After a while an organization needs to look to itself as to perhaps what they are doing wrong to get these kinds of results.
It seems like fewer are forced out these days. Hmm, maybe they were listening, John.
2.) The leadership style in the ministry has been too harsh due to Rev. Martindale’s influences. The micro management of the followers of the Way has been unbearable for most.
People are hearing reports of a "kinder, gentler" ministry. Does that mean they no longer insist you have wingchairs in the fellowship room? John's suggestions adopted, again.
3.) There are few new people who are drawn to the ministry. Most who do come do not stay involved very long because they quickly get the sense of hardness and its accompanying dullness. Most current believers are not even excited about bringing new people to this ministry, as they do not want the new people exposed to the same treatment they have been subjected to these past years.
The current technique seems to be to extend a welcome back to some of the old believers who left (not the "marked and avoided" ones, though). "C'mon back -- we won't admit the ministry sucked before, but it's better now." Uh, whatever happened to godly repentance?
4.) Our foundational class "The Way of Abundance and Power" is too advanced for new people. This class has not proven to be a success. That means it is failing to meet the needs of new people. Many believers on the field do not promote this product. Do we really need taped classes when there is such a wealth of qualified leadership that can teach the foundational principles and meet the particular needs of their congregations?
WAP is out now. For awhile, they were offering live teachers -- how about that, John?
5.) Finances – The financial lives of the believers have been under too much scrutiny. The "debt stance" that the ministry has taken, in my view, has cost the ministry millions of dollars contrary to its desired outcome. Many believers silently disagree (because they are afraid to speak up) about the debt teaching Rev. Martindale has forced into the fabric of the ministry. This hard core financial stand is simply not working. Believers’ want to buy homes and many cannot pay cash for such a large purchase. In a nutshell, each and every situation should be analyzed on its merit with a view of living within ones’ means. What’s right for one person may be wrong for someone else. Anyone with depth of the word and with worldly financial knowledge about finances, investing and real estate knows that to say "Owe no man anything….end of story" is unreasonable and in many cases counterproductive in our day and time. Not to mention that using Rom.13:8 to teach about personal finances takes it out of the context of verses 1 through 7 referring to the "higher powers" in the household.
I guess they're now letting some people take out a mortgage, but not Advanced Class candidates, is that right? I still don't get that -- either it's sin or it isn't. Maybe they just don't want their inner circle of believers making big payments to THEMSELVES instead of the ministry.
6.) The Way International seems to have missed out on taking advantage of the vast network of technology that is prevalent in running a successful enterprise today. This can, in the long run, cost an organization dearly. This technology has gotten cheaper and is more efficient than ever before. Instead of embracing some of these technologies to their advantage, the ministry seems to be discouraging their use.
It seems that the Internet is not the devil's plaything after all, since now TWI has its own website, and vehemently reserves the right to its own domain name. Maybe Patrick has you to thank for that lawsuit, John!
7.) We feel that Rev. Martindale should be on the field not at International Headquarters, and that he and his family should be assisted in finding housing and employment away from HQ. It disturbs us that he remains active Way Corps and clergy, that our abundant sharing is paying for legal fees resulting from his sexual improprieties, and that he would even remain employed by the Way International. His current status is a great departure from the way he has handled the offenses of many others in past years. An immediate termination would seem to be the most logical, biblical and sane handling of this situation. To do otherwise gives the appearance that it is just business as usual with our ABS paying the way.
Well, they got LCM off of grounds, but no telling how much they continue to support him. The wife is still very much at HQ, still married as far as we can see. As a spouse who was kicked off of Staff merely for being married to someone who messed up, I take offense to that maneuver.
So it's easy to see that most of what John talked about has been addressed to some extent. But here's the slimy underbelly: I betcha no one has written to John and Hope to say, "Thank you, you were right. Come on back."
Yeppers! John R was so wrong to actually be concerned about and mention the things he saw that his ministry he wanted to stay involved with could be doing better to serve people. How dare he!! No wonder he got M&A!
The way RFR, Moneyhands and G1les handled this is extremely indicative of how heartless, pridefull and egotistical TWI leadership is. These are leaders STILL IN CONTROL! Think things have changed? Think again! It's all smoke and mirrors, folks. The fans are on and the smoke is dissipating.
Bliss, they continue to enforce the doctrine even now that it's extremely inconveniencing and over-working their meager leadership numbers.
Does anyone know if they changed the doctrine or anything about what's taught in this new class? Did they go back to PFAL or did they keep the great forehead's teachings? Still teaching Eve and the lesbo thing? Still teaching about the gap in the north? Still teaching about dinosaurs and puking amoebeas?
Who are the teachers? Did they get the requisite Bruno Magli shoes and million dollar suits to wear? ;)
Just like the twi's leadership. They wont put anything in writing. If They had gone to HQ my guess they would have been raked over the coals and probably would have been patted down for tape recorders. :blink: Twi does not want to be exposed.
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GrouchoMarxJr
The letter by John R is typical of the actions that MANY took during their days of concern, before they left twi....and Rozilla'z response was also typical of how twi handled honest questions by sincere people.
It would seem to me that after 20 years of faithful service, he deserved some honest answers instead of the eyewash and veiled threats that he received.
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dmiller
DAMMMMM!!!!
(Could ya expect any less????)
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shazdancer
Heck, the terse bs letter isn't peculiar to Rosalie. I had written a letter to "The Teacher" asking why he had let me down, after 10 years of faithful ministry service, WOW, Corps, and briefly Staff. I think it was 2 pages long, very heartfelt, and very respectful.
He blew me off, called me bitter, did not speak at all to my questions.
As to John's concerns, let's see what happened to his points since they kicked him out:
It seems like fewer are forced out these days. Hmm, maybe they were listening, John.People are hearing reports of a "kinder, gentler" ministry. Does that mean they no longer insist you have wingchairs in the fellowship room? John's suggestions adopted, again.The current technique seems to be to extend a welcome back to some of the old believers who left (not the "marked and avoided" ones, though). "C'mon back -- we won't admit the ministry sucked before, but it's better now." Uh, whatever happened to godly repentance?WAP is out now. For awhile, they were offering live teachers -- how about that, John?I guess they're now letting some people take out a mortgage, but not Advanced Class candidates, is that right? I still don't get that -- either it's sin or it isn't. Maybe they just don't want their inner circle of believers making big payments to THEMSELVES instead of the ministry.It seems that the Internet is not the devil's plaything after all, since now TWI has its own website, and vehemently reserves the right to its own domain name. Maybe Patrick has you to thank for that lawsuit, John!Well, they got LCM off of grounds, but no telling how much they continue to support him. The wife is still very much at HQ, still married as far as we can see. As a spouse who was kicked off of Staff merely for being married to someone who messed up, I take offense to that maneuver.So it's easy to see that most of what John talked about has been addressed to some extent. But here's the slimy underbelly: I betcha no one has written to John and Hope to say, "Thank you, you were right. Come on back."
Regards,
Shaz
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bliss
You cannot run a fellowship if you have a Mortgage either.
Do you know how many Branch Leaders have had to take over the whole area because of this?
I am amazed they didn't scream to the BOD, but then again, more control.................
And they do have a new class with a bunch of teachers now, all on DVD, if I remember correctly.
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Belle
Yeppers! John R was so wrong to actually be concerned about and mention the things he saw that his ministry he wanted to stay involved with could be doing better to serve people. How dare he!! No wonder he got M&A!
The way RFR, Moneyhands and G1les handled this is extremely indicative of how heartless, pridefull and egotistical TWI leadership is. These are leaders STILL IN CONTROL! Think things have changed? Think again! It's all smoke and mirrors, folks. The fans are on and the smoke is dissipating.
Bliss, they continue to enforce the doctrine even now that it's extremely inconveniencing and over-working their meager leadership numbers.
Does anyone know if they changed the doctrine or anything about what's taught in this new class? Did they go back to PFAL or did they keep the great forehead's teachings? Still teaching Eve and the lesbo thing? Still teaching about the gap in the north? Still teaching about dinosaurs and puking amoebeas?
Who are the teachers? Did they get the requisite Bruno Magli shoes and million dollar suits to wear? ;)
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justloafing
Just like the twi's leadership. They wont put anything in writing. If They had gone to HQ my guess they would have been raked over the coals and probably would have been patted down for tape recorders. :blink: Twi does not want to be exposed.
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themex
Thank you for your time and concern Wayfer Not! :D
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socks
Now I'm really curious...but hey,
:blink: How ya gonna have a good bible class without a few puking amoebas?
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