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Vaccinations, Disinfectants, and Anti-biotics


satori001
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If you'll flip a coin, the other side of the cult coin is our willingness to un-believe in that for which there is overwhelming evidence, so much so that we will perform rituals around the truths that keep us alive, all the while denying those same truths.

Like what? We get vaccines. We gargle with "germ-killing" mouth wash. We use "anti-bacterial" soap. We cook our food. Why? Because it's part of the social genuflecting we've ritualized from childhood. We've never seen a germ. We don't believe what we can't see, unless it's spiritual of course. If it's scientific, then forget it. It ain't real if we don't see it.

Germs.

You don't have to be a germ freak to appreciate the need to wash one's hands after one (how do I say this delicately?) takes a crap. But... some folks out there just don't get it. A few minutes in a busy public restroom will convince the skeptics.

Some of this blind indifference must be cultural. Some people come from part of the world where water is a precious commodity. Some may believe water must be conserved, used only for drinking, and they smell like it. And soap, soap is just an excuse to waste water. That's what they must think.

People will sneeze and cough their heads off in the presence of strangers, friends, family, anybody, they don't seem to care. Or they cough on to the knuckles of their closed fist. What the hell is that? Improved dispersion?

We prosecute the dope who lights a campfire that spreads to prairies, forests or towns. But the jackass who starts an epidemic because he's "tough" enough to go to work with the flu doesn't even get a parking ticket.

"Bird flu" (H5N1 virus) is just an urban myth in this country. For now. As long as people aren't dropping in the streets with blood pouring from their eyes and ears, the ignorant and the apathetic will continue to behave as if germs are product of superstition and, failing thus to wash themselves properly, continue to spread their invisible filth on everything they touch. I'm guessing they're big hand-shakers and kissers, by the way.

The public knows there is a "health care crisis." But it doesn't occur to them what the cause is... sickness! And therefore, it doesn't occur to them what the causes are... Uh, basically pathogens (germs). Okay, there's aging, and injury, toxins, and other contributing factors, but the biggest problem by far is illness.

Now I'm not arguing that we need to live like lab rats in gleaming, disinfected clean rooms. I do think we need to pass some laws about cleanliness and get serious about it.

Edited by satori001
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Well you will be SO happy to know tht I clean my classromm tables and chairs with Clorox cleaner. Most people don't think of the backd of the chairs - but that is where little hands go - right?

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YOU have hit my all time greatest pet peve AUUUUGH.

These brave souls that drag their flu ravaged bodies to church and sit directly behind you coughing up their toes right over your shoulder........ The mom`s who drag their sick kids to art and dance classes....

You know it isn`t a big deal to them.... but by the time even a minor cold makes the ranks through our family....it has been two to three weeks of he ll for me.... up every night with a different child...sick myself....the extra expenses of cold remedies .....

and good lord if it is something like strep throat requireing a doctor visit and antibiotics??????? OMG Try 100 bucks a kid for 7 kids... 700 bucks because you didn`t want jr. to miss another karate class <_<

My nephew came up for a visit just before christmas.....at the end of wich he brightly announced to his mother that he had had a sore throat ........yep it turned out to be strep....but no biggie for sister who has insurance to pay for her dr visits and antibiotics...and only two kiddos to nurse back to health....she has derided me mercilessly for YEARS for being so adamantly over protective of my kiddoes against germs and flu bugs....augh...

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oh how this rings loudly in my ears!

My kids are NOT allowed to play in the "play yards" of any such restaurant, even though we only go if we are on a trip and that is our only option. Those places NEVER get cleaned.

Hence, the MALL. On cold days I would occasionally take my then "young" children( 2-4 year olds) to the play area of the malls. While fun, they are infested with snot, puke, spit, boogers, and occasionally, POOP.

EVERY TIME my kids played there, they were sick 3 days later.

How about all the kid water parks, themed parks? How often I see poop sliding down the waterslide, to then have the whole section sectioned off for hours.

I had enough!

So, sorry if my girlfriends think I am such a "strict" parent for not letting my kids eat or go to McDonalds or the new "super duper deluxe" Children's play museum down the road.........I don't care.

It cost me $100 bucks every time my kid needs antibiotics. I'll let them do pony rides on my back thankyou.

(hey Rascal, can we come up and ride the horses?) hehe

I teach my kids to cough in their shoulder sleeve and not their hands, but, they don't always remember, little buggers.

and another thing........................

I have a neighbor friend that is sssssoooooo ignorant about her children being sick, and when to let them "play or not play".

She asks me, " JJ had a fever a couple hours ago, but I gave him Tylonol and he's better now, can he come over and play?"

ahhhh what?

Are you serious?

I mean, he feels better because of drugs girl, not because he is NOT CONTAGIOUS!

Major pet peeve. It is like they have no clue what germs do, and how they are transmitted.

Yes we definatley need some "germ warfare" class.

BTW her house is always gross. Not just disorganized or "kid friendly", it's dirty.

So, "cleanliness classes" are needed too.

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Kids get sick. Kids in contact with other kids get sick faster. That's part of life. Only way to prevent it is to prevent exposure of the kids to germs. This is done in one way: minimize exposure...

Guess what? That's how kids' immunity systems are built up. Kids get sick: kids build up antibodies. Kids are less vulnerable in the future.

Voice of experience speaking here, btw.

You do your kid a misservice if the kid doesn't build up normal antibodies when he's young. Mumps is a pain in the butt when the kid is young. Mumps as an adult is downright dangerous. Same thing with other childhood diseases, like Rubella and Chicken Pox.

I may sound like a give-a-sh1t parent, but now that my kid is in middle school, she just doesn't get sick anymore...even if something is "going around."

This is not an advocacy to totally expose a kid to everything, I'm not. However, totally shielding a child does the child a disservice.

Just something to consider.

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You are right Mark, about the "building up the immune system", and believe me, they have!

I know some freaky parents, esp in the infant stages that won't even let another person hold their baby!

I am not that way at all.

But, as a mom, it is primarily my job to be up all night when the kids are sick. Like Rascal said, with a butt load of kids, getting it one by one, that makes for a pretty miserable month, let alone financially.

So, if I can avoid places that are "loaded" with germs, I will chose not to purposely expose them.

I just really need my sleep this week. :sleep1:

(where you at Rascal?) I am coming over!

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Lol Mark O :) ..... spoken truly as a parent of not many children....let me ask when sick, is it you or your wife stay up all night worrying? ...is it you or your wife that has to drop everything to take them to the dr`s office and sit for hours exposing them to yet more illness while people hack n barf all around them? ? is it you or your wife that has to go to the pharmacy pick up the extra supplies to nurse kiddoes? Is it you or your wife that cleans up the vomit that has been projected all through the house when the kiddoes cannot make it to the bathroom? Is it you or your wife that has to cope with the laundry of new bedding and a clean out fit for every episode....Do you have insurance? or do you have to pay out of pocket 100 bucks a child an illness?

Try imagining this times 7 :unsure:

For some folks it really IS a much bigger deal. .... Folks would be kind to consider the impact on others and keep themselves and their sick children home.....rather than be casual because it isn`t such a big deal in their mind.

As far as measels mumps and ruebella.... those are ALL diseases that are addressed with childhood vaccinations.....

The snotty nosed colds....the strep throat...the flu....these build no immunities of value .... because the kids can recatch it again at any time....sometimes one who was sick first in our family will recatch the same bug before the last person is well....

I will agree though....my kids haven`t had chicken pox...I will have to get the older ones vaccinated because after puberty it is dangerous.

As far as the rest of that crap....it is unnecessary and just plain inconsiderate to bring that sick kiddo to class.

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As a matter of a fact, I stayed up as many times, changed (almost) as many diapers, cleaned up as much puke, etc., as my wife (of course, she wouldn't agree, but that's another story altogether). So I'm not speaking from the husband who did nothing, Rascal. Same thing with midnight runs for Pedialyte, extra diapers, prescriptions, urgent care, etc. Been there, done that.

And I am NOT advocating intentionally exposing a kid to a known threat. But I am also not advocating being over-protective.

On the other hand, I actually know parents of large families who had their kids all sleep in the same room when one of them brought home something just so that they'd all get it at once and get it over with. No kidding! They'd have a miserable week. But, I guess that would beat a miserable seven weeks.

I'm not telling you how to raise your kids, Rascal, I'm just trying to bring in some information from a different perspective. And it worked.

Oh, by the way, we got that advice from a friend of my wife, who was a pediatrician and mother of four.

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Sounds like good advice to me Mark, fair and balanced. We have four kids, and I too have spent many a night up and with the kiddos. And of course when it is time to make a drive to the drug store, I am always the driver, regardless of the time of day. But when it comes to the "get them all sick at once to get it over in one week instead of one month", well, we'd never practice that. Not that you advocated it, and I know that you only gave that as an example of someone elses practice, which on the one hand seems to have it's merits. But on the other hand, we'd never practice that with our kids, because we also teach our kids that they can trust God not to get sick, even if the whole classroom "gets it". And many many times they have made it through unscathed, and of course, sometimes not. And so, a practice like making sure that they get exposed to the latest flu is something that we would not do for that particular reason. To me it would be "giving in too soon", and just relenting that the "World is gonna git ya no matter what".

Another thing we haven't done is "immediately run for some antibiotics". We prefer to allow the bodies' natural immune systems to overcome a flu or sore throat, therefore increasing the bodies immune system to handle it even better the next time. But with a sore throat, if it persists, we then take them in, check for strep, and if it is strep, then we get the antibiotics. Don't want to risk the rheumatic fever thing. Bad for the heart.

But then again, my kids have never had immunizations for DPT, MMR, flu shots, chicken pocks, etc. We don't believe in all of that. But that is another can of worms to argue about. All I know is that my brother and his wife used to try and lecture us on "whether or not we really loved our kids, and if we did, we'd get them the full array of immunizations, etc". And then talk about us behind our backs to my parents and my other brother and sister. But, one day, my brother's daughter, fully immunized, came down with whooping caugh, pertussis, the "p" in DPT, and came close to dying. And later, the other daughter ended up with "rhys syndrome", another known killer, and documented side effect of the measles vaccination. And so, believe it or not, there really is another side to that coin...

This all is a very volatile topic, because we are talking about our kids here. But for us, so far, their health overall has been most excellent, and we are thankful to God for that...

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You're all right as far as I'm concerned.

Satori your idea of cleanliness lessons and laws is great. Teeth into the laws already existing would be a start. Spitting on the subway is against the law...but nobody ever enforces it! When I was young, we had health classes in school where these kinds of things were routinely taught - - but I knew most of it from my home life anyway. We also had routine inspection in the morning...we had to show the teachers out hands (to make sure they were clean) and she checked us over for general cleanliness (just a formality in my neighborhood but it was a requirement) and we all had to show a handkerchief OR a package of tissues. Twice a year we were checked for head lice.

There is a balance in here somewhere I think - but I'd be hard pressed to find it all the time.

*** Do get your children immunized against chicken pox. It's nasty to get it...but it also stays permanently in your system and if it gets reactivated...the result is shingles...a most unpleasant disease of mid-later life.

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I know we are surrounded by germs, and a sterile environment may be as unhealthy as a dirty one.

But we also know that they used to throw garbage and sewage into the streets back in the middle ages. The average life span was probably under 30, and epidemics were common place.

When they began to practice a little social hygeine, wonder of wonders, people began to live longer, healthier lives.

We want to keep our immune systems in good shape, not overwhelm them. The best way to build antibodies is minimal exposure. One careless sneeze in your face is several billion more critters than your immune system is prepared for.

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Being a nurse i see both sides of this coin...

I do know that our health system is different here in the UK. IT'S FREE........

Well nothing is free really we do pay in taxes and National Insurance.

I would like to suggest in my opinion only, It is a well known fact that coughs and colds, Flu's ect,

can not be treated, why pay $100 bucks to a doctor, when you can take a trip to the chemist,

(drug Store) and pick up some Paracetamol (pain killer) and make sure the child drinks plenty.

This would not cost as much, its not just children that pass these bugs, There are certain times

of the year, and while you are at the doctors so are many others coughing spluttering and feeding

the Doctors pocket.

I am not telling anyone to not visit the Dr, if your childs temperture does not get under control,

or starts to come out in a rash, get it checked, Vaccinations are important, they are a helpful

deterant, Mumps, Rubella, chicken pox, can be killers, so vitally important, Also tuberculosis

known as TB is now more common, it actually is transmitted most popularly by spitting.

People that are carriers, spit on the floor, we walk in it, with out knowing, use our hands to take

off our shoes, and there you go its transmitted., and here in the UK we seem to have more illegal

immigrants lately bringing TB into the country.

Also some people cant stay at home when they have flu,cough, cold, they may not get paid for being off

work and have a family to keep, so germs will travel.,

The enviroment i work in on a hospital ward, we are prone to allsorts, but a good healthy balance

diet, exercise, and most of us wont catch it, or not to the serverity some might.

All our children here in the UK, have major vacinations at a very young age, 3 months, upwards,

measles, mumps, rubella, (MMR)

IMHO i would let the child have these vaccines they are important.

MP

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Vaccinations are such a touchy subject....sometimes as volatile as the trinity.

Germs can cause disease, but we probably give them too much credit. Why does one person get sick when exposed and another doesn't? Is it partly heredity, part immune system build up? How much does breast feeding and cellular memory come into play? How much does attitude play?

I will attest that my high schoolers have never had an antibiotic. One has never even had a drug, other than some novocaine at the dentist. The other one has only had some ibeprofren now & then due to sports. But they have been sick. Probably the worst illness the kids ever dealt with was when my daughter was sick; she had scarlatina (like scarlet fever below the waist?). The kids got flus and colds and such. But we treated them herbally/homepathically/nutritionally/prayerfully. They rarely ever get sick anymore. Actually it has probably been a couple years since they've had anything other than a sniffle.

I don't preach this (and no one hear sounds like they are preaching) to anyone. (Like I said, it is a touchy subject.) But I do let people know from time to time about some stuff we have done/are doing. Books I have used to help guide our family are How to Raise A Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor, Nutritional Medicine, The Complete Handbook of Homeopathy, America Journal for Family Medicine and a few others. Plus I always sought out good MDs whenever we have moved (which has been frequently). I would call and ask if they allow complimentary interviews at the practice with the doctor. Every place except one said yes...and I didn't bother with that one. Bedside manner is one of the main ingredients for me in working with a healthcare practioner. We also have had professional homeopaths alongside the MDs.

We DO wash out hands regularly. I believe it is a very simple way to help ward off bad rascals. And the kids drink mainly water with occasional soda. We also take nutrional whole food shakes and occasional supllements. But we aren't purists. Last night we had a party with Dominoes, chocalte moose cake from COSTCO, soda, along with raw veggies and some pineapple and fruit. Of course I pay for that stuff around the waistline.. :dance:

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