From what I've been taught in TWI, its where the 'demon' (or 'devil spirit' if you prefer) enters, and then occupies the brain/mind of the possessed. And (supposedly) is difficult as hell to get out or made to leave, depending on the size/viciousness of said spirit.
Ie., boils down to an ignorant, and often abusive, attempt to explain mental illness.
I think your right...all things should be re-evalualted..I wish I had all the time..I just try to keep things simple. Altho, I hold to some very valuable truth's.
Yes, we were feed some awful stuff.....we do need light shed on us and this subject:)
From what I've been taught in TWI, its where the 'demon' (or 'devil spirit' if you prefer) enters, and then occupies the brain/mind of the possessed. And (supposedly) is difficult as hell to get out or made to leave, depending on the size/viciousness of said spirit.
Ie., boils down to an ignorant, and often abusive, attempt to explain mental illness.
Do you have a better explanation of mental illness?
If so -- I am all ears.
Not trying to be fracetious here. If you know what you are talking about, say on!
"your physical body is taken over by another entity"
isn't this true anyway cause it's not the other way around usually in physically healthy people. in other words, isn't something there that has taken over anyway?
eccl 3:21Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
the scriptures even say the animals have spirit
and i don't buy the breakdown in RTHST book
consider the over 500 uses of the word spirit
and even more of the word breath which is the same word i think
as well as wind
here's one and another
eccl 8:6Because to every purpose there is time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him. 7For he knoweth not that which shall be: for who can tell him when it shall be? 8There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
eccl 11: 5As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.
Do you have a better explanation of mental illness?
If so -- I am all ears.
Not trying to be fracetious here. If you know what you are talking about, say on
Ohhh, how about:
1) chemical imbalances in the brain that effect behavior in an unhealthy way.
2) psychological imbalances/disturbances/reactions brought on by extreme and/or abusive external behaviors by others.
3) various other disturbances of the mind including the above, and including other items that bring about mental illness, or makes the mind sick.
4) but does NOT include the various 'demonic influences' that have been since disproven by the above descriptions.
(Now I would trust any descriptions from the above rather than some Mickey Mouse exorcist/spiritualist/advanced class grad any day. And this is after years of listening to & believing the aforementioned *crap* that comes from the 'demon haunted' world. Especially after reading/seeing/hearing all the ridiculous results, and of course abuse that often happens to people, to where I said 'Enough!', and threw that all down the proverbial toilet.)
For a more professional opinion, which goes beyond what either I OR you OR any exorcist has to offer, see a psychologist/psychiatrist/mental health professional. ... And I do say that w/o any animosity at all.
(Now I would trust any descriptions from the above rather than some Mickey Mouse exorcist/spiritualist/advanced class grad any day. And this is after years of listening to & believing the aforementioned *crap* that comes from the 'demon haunted' world. Especially after reading/seeing/hearing all the ridiculous results, and of course abuse that often happens to people, to where I said 'Enough!', and threw that all down the proverbial toilet.)
Garth, seems as though you are looking at anyone who believes in spiritual realities as believing in what twi taught, and further you will not give anyone a chance to be seen as being broken out of that shell and actually have some answers regarding the spirit. You are always throwing twi dogma into the faces of those who do not hold their views, but you take what is said turn it into twi doctrine to attack it rather then consider what is really being talked about.
Seems to me you are seeing thru twi glasses still. I got your point a long time ago.
Mental illness and the things you listed are physical and spiritual.
And if you would talk to a PROFESSIONAL, he\she would say the same thing.
Garth, seems as though you are looking at anyone who believes in spiritual realities as believing in what twi taught, and further you will not give anyone a chance to be seen as being broken out of that shell and actually have some answers regarding the spirit.
That's not what I said. Notice that I didn't focus exclusively on TWI, as for one thing TWI isn't the only only who rants on about 'demons', 'devils', and the like. Plus I am speaking about/from my own observations/experiences about what I see regarding this area, and have done nothing to keep anyone from 'having a chance' to break out of any shell.
Mental illness and the things you listed are physical and spiritual.
And if you would talk to a PROFESSIONAL, he\she would say the same thing.
A mental health professional deals with the mental side of things. A clerical professional deals with the spiritual side of things. And the difference between you and I is what either one of us accepts/rejects as spiritual. I just happen to reject the spiritual in regards to demons and the like.
Seems to me you are seeing thru twi glasses still.
Definitely wrong. As how does dismissing the 'demon haunted' world line up with TWI, hmmmm? Answer: it doesn't.
I got your point a long time ago.
Yeah, well you aren't the only one here who's reading these posts, and from what I see from the beginning post, it was addressed to anybody to respond. Thank you.
if you don't believe in spiritual then why post at all?
am i a threat to you?
just because you can't see don't mean others can't
why waste your time on me?
... just one example
????? Chief, you have GOT to get over yourself.
Who said that I was directing what I said ONLY to you? And who says that if I don't 'believe in the spiritual', then why should I post? And yet you act as if I am trying to shut YOU up?? :huh:
I do no such thing. All I'm doing is responding to the question posed in itself. And that does *nothing* to stop others from posting their opinion. Nothing! You don't like me posting? Tough!
By the way, a large part of your problem with my posts, is that you don't read what I wrote, you read into them. Of that, I am sure. ... I got a tip for you. Read what people *actually* write, and go from there.
Why can't others post here, whether they believe in demons or not? Why is it that when someone says that they don't believe in them, YOU say that the thread is done with? You just can't deal with dissenting statements of unbelief w/o feeling persecuted about it?
yeah boy, i've wrestled with this one, but i seem to always reach the conclusion, at least for now, that there is something invisible and powerful with a life and will of it's own that can, under the right cirmcumstances, influence humans.
my main problem with TWI's version was that it was too general and far reaching - a bromide for any "unacceptable behavior"
i believe a better word for "possession" is "demonized" and it's effects can exist in a range as mild as being influenced by the lies and deceit of a cultural message (ie - images of "Volvo driving, professional, good-looking, six pack abs sporting together guy" as the icon of success) to complete surrender to a particular malevolent force.
No less a subjective investigator than Scott Peck came to these conclusions after observing the phenomena of evil. His book People of the Lie along with his recommendation Hostage to the Devil by Malachi Martin shed some light on the subject for me.
I'm not married to the notion of spirits and "possession" as true, but at this point in my investigation I would have to say I believe.
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GarthP2000
From what I've been taught in TWI, its where the 'demon' (or 'devil spirit' if you prefer) enters, and then occupies the brain/mind of the possessed. And (supposedly) is difficult as hell to get out or made to leave, depending on the size/viciousness of said spirit.
Ie., boils down to an ignorant, and often abusive, attempt to explain mental illness.
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CM
i do appreciate your response Garth
something apparently unseen right
unseen but perceived which means it is seen
it is seen when we perceive it or see it
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likeaneagle
we were taught by LCm it enter thru weakness in the mind thus using behavior as another tool...
Doing drugs and alchohol are ways that he can get into the person....I think it can be by suggestion as well..
hhhmmm
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CM
hey fellow eagle!
pictures anyway
i think this idea and the many that go with it from twi
should be reevaluated as well as the other things
i mean they screwed us in so many things
seems this one shouldn't be excluded fron examination
and could shed some positive light on the things we really want to know
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likeaneagle
hi (((CM)))
I think your right...all things should be re-evalualted..I wish I had all the time..I just try to keep things simple. Altho, I hold to some very valuable truth's.
Yes, we were feed some awful stuff.....we do need light shed on us and this subject:)
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templelady
Being Possessed means that your physical body is taken over by another entity
Is It Possible?? Yes
Does it Happen?? I'm sure it does BUT--------
99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%
of the time it is a word used to
a] excuse your own or someone else's bad behavior
b] justify intolerance, bigotry and hatred and the manifestations of the same
c] a combination of a and b
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Bramble
In the nineties all you had to do to be posessed was not obey the leadership quick enough.
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dmiller
Do you have a better explanation of mental illness?
If so -- I am all ears.
Not trying to be fracetious here. If you know what you are talking about, say on!
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CM
thanks for the replys,
templelady said
"your physical body is taken over by another entity"
isn't this true anyway cause it's not the other way around usually in physically healthy people. in other words, isn't something there that has taken over anyway?
our wills
our loves
our hates
our desires
our passions
what is this entity?
soul?.....spirit?......
who is this me that is me?
the i that is in charge of i?
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CM
not trying to be tricky or deceitful
or to catch anyone in their words
but lets THINK and see what it is
that you or me is and have come to be
why some are this way and some are that way
not talking about possession but just in general
even animals have different personalities
eccl 3:21Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
the scriptures even say the animals have spirit
and i don't buy the breakdown in RTHST book
consider the over 500 uses of the word spirit
and even more of the word breath which is the same word i think
as well as wind
here's one and another
eccl 8:6Because to every purpose there is time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him. 7For he knoweth not that which shall be: for who can tell him when it shall be? 8There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
eccl 11: 5As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.
so possession...hmmmmm
i see caught away in the spirit
the spirit led me
and i was in the spirit
the spirit came upon me
and things like this that are godly
so devil spirits or demons
do they work in the same sort of manner?
or is there a different twist to it
i'm of course a lot more interested in the godly
but seeing how the ungodly wind blows too
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Oakspear
You can't seriously think that there aren't other explanations that are as plausible as possession.
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CM
good link Oakspear
i often ask myself
that's me talking to me
whatever that is and who the me's are....lol
how does the spirit work
the wind blows in so many directions
i've seen it work and still i wonder...
and as far as demon possession
it is apparently a reality if one reads and believes
what it says about them in the bible
but what is the source of this
where does it come from
as well as the spirit of god
are they actually the same yet the colors are changed?
consider the one delivered that all marveled that he was sitting and in his right mind
what is that - in his right mind?
what was removed or "blown" away
this is not a lite subject and can be taken too literal
i hope noone is caught up in to a confusing state of mind
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GarthP2000
Ohhh, how about:
1) chemical imbalances in the brain that effect behavior in an unhealthy way.
2) psychological imbalances/disturbances/reactions brought on by extreme and/or abusive external behaviors by others.
3) various other disturbances of the mind including the above, and including other items that bring about mental illness, or makes the mind sick.
4) but does NOT include the various 'demonic influences' that have been since disproven by the above descriptions.
(Now I would trust any descriptions from the above rather than some Mickey Mouse exorcist/spiritualist/advanced class grad any day. And this is after years of listening to & believing the aforementioned *crap* that comes from the 'demon haunted' world. Especially after reading/seeing/hearing all the ridiculous results, and of course abuse that often happens to people, to where I said 'Enough!', and threw that all down the proverbial toilet.)
For a more professional opinion, which goes beyond what either I OR you OR any exorcist has to offer, see a psychologist/psychiatrist/mental health professional. ... And I do say that w/o any animosity at all.
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CM
Garth, seems as though you are looking at anyone who believes in spiritual realities as believing in what twi taught, and further you will not give anyone a chance to be seen as being broken out of that shell and actually have some answers regarding the spirit. You are always throwing twi dogma into the faces of those who do not hold their views, but you take what is said turn it into twi doctrine to attack it rather then consider what is really being talked about.
Seems to me you are seeing thru twi glasses still. I got your point a long time ago.
Mental illness and the things you listed are physical and spiritual.
And if you would talk to a PROFESSIONAL, he\she would say the same thing.
Life is SPIRITUAL or there would not be LIFE.
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GarthP2000
Let's try this again.
That's not what I said. Notice that I didn't focus exclusively on TWI, as for one thing TWI isn't the only only who rants on about 'demons', 'devils', and the like. Plus I am speaking about/from my own observations/experiences about what I see regarding this area, and have done nothing to keep anyone from 'having a chance' to break out of any shell.A mental health professional deals with the mental side of things. A clerical professional deals with the spiritual side of things. And the difference between you and I is what either one of us accepts/rejects as spiritual. I just happen to reject the spiritual in regards to demons and the like.
Definitely wrong. As how does dismissing the 'demon haunted' world line up with TWI, hmmmm? Answer: it doesn't.Yeah, well you aren't the only one here who's reading these posts, and from what I see from the beginning post, it was addressed to anybody to respond. Thank you.
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CM
so i'm obviously talking about spiritual
if you got some thing lets hear it
if you don't believe in spiritual then why post at all?
am i a threat to you?
just because you can't see don't mean others can't
why waste your time on me?
you said-
"I am speaking about/from my own observations/experiences about what I see regarding this area"
is that all there is to see?
perhaps there is more
and yes let's bring out the rest of those who object to any thing they can't see or feel
let's just squash anything that don't fit into what your little world wants to acknowledge
"i don't know" is a perfectly fine answer to that which you do not understand
but no, it's gotta fit into some capsule of human experience and actually seeing something
failure to understand the simple basics of seeing is part of the limitations of many
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CM
speaking of posts from the start of this thread...
i never said that or implyed it, but you took what i said and are applying that to many situations that i did not address
i am talking about possession as it is talked about in the scriptures
you want to start on mental illness then start a thread on mental illness
it is a known fact and truth that people have been
delivered from demons, known to me and
i am willing to take a closer look
by way of understanding spirit more
there is no end of enlightenment to see
if you choose to not look at it and consider these things
then don't, cause you are stopping those who want to discuss it
just like the other thread i started on the air, life, heart subject
i will not shut up about it or the other things i have seen and heard
i will take the heat of whatever anyone has to throw at me
if they so choose, but i say you are wasting your time
cause it just might be possible that there is something
that can be explored and lo and behold seen for the first time
noone is the beginning and end of all knowledge
the alpha and omega....who dares to take a peek
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GarthP2000
????? Chief, you have GOT to get over yourself.
Who said that I was directing what I said ONLY to you? And who says that if I don't 'believe in the spiritual', then why should I post? And yet you act as if I am trying to shut YOU up?? :huh:
I do no such thing. All I'm doing is responding to the question posed in itself. And that does *nothing* to stop others from posting their opinion. Nothing! You don't like me posting? Tough!
By the way, a large part of your problem with my posts, is that you don't read what I wrote, you read into them. Of that, I am sure. ... I got a tip for you. Read what people *actually* write, and go from there.
I stand by what I say.
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CM
so stay with what you think
go ahead and post
you stand by what you say
not for long
things change
i go by what i know and don't know
what i see and know is to be seen
this thread is over and done with
the end
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GarthP2000
Sez you!
Why can't others post here, whether they believe in demons or not? Why is it that when someone says that they don't believe in them, YOU say that the thread is done with? You just can't deal with dissenting statements of unbelief w/o feeling persecuted about it?
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CM
"You just can't deal with dissenting statements of unbelief w/o feeling persecuted about it?"
no just ignorance and narrow mindedness
and you are reading me feeling persecution INTO what i said
you don't even know what i said...lol
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Yanagisawa
yeah boy, i've wrestled with this one, but i seem to always reach the conclusion, at least for now, that there is something invisible and powerful with a life and will of it's own that can, under the right cirmcumstances, influence humans.
my main problem with TWI's version was that it was too general and far reaching - a bromide for any "unacceptable behavior"
i believe a better word for "possession" is "demonized" and it's effects can exist in a range as mild as being influenced by the lies and deceit of a cultural message (ie - images of "Volvo driving, professional, good-looking, six pack abs sporting together guy" as the icon of success) to complete surrender to a particular malevolent force.
No less a subjective investigator than Scott Peck came to these conclusions after observing the phenomena of evil. His book People of the Lie along with his recommendation Hostage to the Devil by Malachi Martin shed some light on the subject for me.
I'm not married to the notion of spirits and "possession" as true, but at this point in my investigation I would have to say I believe.
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CM
thanks for the input Yanagisawa
perhaps this thread still has life
if it stays on the topic
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