I point this out because isn't it interesting how the average joe on the street reacts strongly to the idea that someone lied or misrepresented himself in a book that purported to be true in every sense. On an intuitive level people know its dead wrong for authors to deceive and this on a non-academic book. So what the heck is wrong with all the VPW supporters who make wild claims that his plagiarism was okay ?
It doesn't make sense to me, either, although it seems to be on the same grounds: Hey, I enjoyed the book, and it brought in lots of money for "The Teacher," plus, look at all the people who were "helped," so what does it matter if it's plagiarized, fabricated, stolen, concocted? The real irony, when it comes to Wierwille's "work," is how jealously and aggressively he protected his own copyrights, without seeming to have any internal conflict about "borrowing" freely from others. I mean, I would almost understand it if he practiced what he preached, meaning that his own work, including the PFAL series, and the work of others (I'm thinking of the original work of the artists and musicians in Way Productions) were offered without charge, with the thinking that since it belongs to God it also belongs to all of us, and no single one of us profits from it. (Oh, that's right. They were freely given . . . in exchange for a small donation -- our time, talent, energy, and lives. Hardly worth mentioning such an insignificant sacrifice, considering the time-consuming work Wierwille must have put into finding, sorting, and re-typing all those previously published paragraphs.) I don't get it. Who can defend that? Especially considering what it cost us.
Digi: I got a copy of Grizzly Man and plan to watch it sometime this weekend. Come over for a bowl of popcorn, if you have the time.
Back to the memoir writing. The thing I'm not understanding is why the publishing houses are saying, Hey, we're not The Atlantic Monthly; we don't hire fact-checkers, so we rely on the writers. Since when? Recently, there's been another memoirist -- a white, gay-porn writer from Anytown, Michigan who became a Navajo long enough to write a memoir and two sequels about growing up on a reservation. The publishers are crying ignorance, yet I remember back when I was taking 101 courses, I had to write essays about the popular American captivity narratives published centuries ago and make arguments about whether I was reading fact or fiction. We had to look for elements of fiction, and extrapolate from that what may or may not have been true about the story. I find it really hard to believe that these high-powered editors at huge publishing houses know less than I do about identifying the genre of the manuscripts they're reviewing. So it makes me wonder what's up.
Hey Belle...tell ye folks to come an visit during the spring meet at Churchill Downs,,,,I might be able to show em an old Indian trick on reading the Daily Racing Forum .
Laleo would love to see Grizzly Man and have popcorn but I think I missed it, have been dealing with the weather lately ...... sorry ....... Love popcorn and a good movie, can you make a second viewing?
As far as James Frey goes ......... he is still in the top 5 of Amazon book sales and his other book stated the top 20. So a disclaimer is put in the books ....... he is still making money, so is his publisher.
Oprah has cleared herself by confronting him on national television .......
Like I said earlier he was cleansed of Drugs and Alcohol but he never claimed to be clean of lying. He is making money of those embellishments ....... his ego won't be hurt to bad with all that money in his pocket and he will continue to write and make more money.
People are purchasing the books just to read about the bad boy character he portrayed himself as. People find it intriguing. The book for reading sake was a good book. It was a good read. I liked the book and read in less than a day. Readers will purchase it just for the rush of a good read. I am reader and seldom do interesting books really come about. An interesting author who can keep the momentum going is in a category of their own. We will see if Frey can keep up the momentum. Legally I don't think anything will hapen to him, but I may be wrong who knows.
If anyone is interested in Grizzly Man, I highly recommend it. Like I said earlier, I first heard of this documentary in an NPR commentary about Frey's "memoir." In comparing the book with the documentary, the commentator used played back parts of an earlier interview, and noted that while each work is a factual misrepresentation of its subject matter, each tries to expose some sort of higher, deeper, "ecstatic" truth. My conclusion: The commentator gives Frey too much credit (since my impression of him is that he's more of a lying opportunist than a tortured artist), and not enough credit to the director of Grizzly Man. I can see where it isn't "factual" in the sense that it isn't a day-to-day recounting of Timothy Treadwell's Alaskan sojourns with the bears, but, rather, it's thematic. From what I can tell, the director is trying very hard to understand the aspirations and motivations of Treadwell's environmental activism, and while he doesn't understand, never understands (despite a valiant attempt) he maintains sympathy for his character. Great movie, for anyone inclined to watch it.
Frey admits to even more extensive fabrications and lies. Recall that upon the breaking of the newstory he denied ALL allegations that he lied, embellished, or fabricated. Two days after he admits to "some" embellishment. As time goes it looks like almost nothing in his book was true - certainly anything of a sensational nature. He says "`I altered events all the way through the book,''. This is much, much different from his earlier claims of modest embellishment.
At this point I wonder if this guy ever even had an addiction problem. See the following link and excerpt from it
Author explains that lies in book made a better story
James Frey on Wednesday offered the first detailed explanation of why he embellished and lied about events in ``A Million Little Pieces,'' his best-selling book: It made a better story. ``I wanted the stories in the book to ebb and flow, to have dramatic arcs, to have the tension that all great stories require,'' Frey said in an author's note released Wednesday that will be included in future editions of the book. ``I altered events all the way through the book,'' he added. On Jan. 26, Frey appeared on Oprah Winfrey's show and under her questioning, admitted to extensive fabrications. In his author's note, a three-page essay titled ``a note to the reader,'' Frey also said that officials at the rehab facility where he was treated had previously questioned his account of having a root canal procedure without anesthesia. Other events that Frey had previously defended as true but which, according to the statement, were invented, include ``my role in a train accident that killed a girl from my school.'' Overall, his portrayal in ``A Million Little Pieces,'' is of a person who ``I created in my mind to help me cope'' with drug addiction and recovery. The events and details were invented, he said, ``in order to serve what I felt was the greater purpose of the book,'' specifically to ``detail the fight addicts and alcoholics experience in their minds and in their bodies, and detail why that fight is difficult to win.'' ``I sincerely apologize to those readers who have been disappointed by my actions,'' he said.
Well, his publisher dropped him. And the movie plans are on hold. So, I wonder, what does this say about Oprah? Is she a force for good? Curiously, this whole thing hasn't affected his book sales, except maybe for the better. Both of his novels are still in the top ten, which means he's set for life, even if his reputation isn't.
Hey, Stranger, if you watch Grizzly Man, let me know what you think of it.
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laleo
It doesn't make sense to me, either, although it seems to be on the same grounds: Hey, I enjoyed the book, and it brought in lots of money for "The Teacher," plus, look at all the people who were "helped," so what does it matter if it's plagiarized, fabricated, stolen, concocted? The real irony, when it comes to Wierwille's "work," is how jealously and aggressively he protected his own copyrights, without seeming to have any internal conflict about "borrowing" freely from others. I mean, I would almost understand it if he practiced what he preached, meaning that his own work, including the PFAL series, and the work of others (I'm thinking of the original work of the artists and musicians in Way Productions) were offered without charge, with the thinking that since it belongs to God it also belongs to all of us, and no single one of us profits from it. (Oh, that's right. They were freely given . . . in exchange for a small donation -- our time, talent, energy, and lives. Hardly worth mentioning such an insignificant sacrifice, considering the time-consuming work Wierwille must have put into finding, sorting, and re-typing all those previously published paragraphs.) I don't get it. Who can defend that? Especially considering what it cost us.
Digi: I got a copy of Grizzly Man and plan to watch it sometime this weekend. Come over for a bowl of popcorn, if you have the time.
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laleo
Back to the memoir writing. The thing I'm not understanding is why the publishing houses are saying, Hey, we're not The Atlantic Monthly; we don't hire fact-checkers, so we rely on the writers. Since when? Recently, there's been another memoirist -- a white, gay-porn writer from Anytown, Michigan who became a Navajo long enough to write a memoir and two sequels about growing up on a reservation. The publishers are crying ignorance, yet I remember back when I was taking 101 courses, I had to write essays about the popular American captivity narratives published centuries ago and make arguments about whether I was reading fact or fiction. We had to look for elements of fiction, and extrapolate from that what may or may not have been true about the story. I find it really hard to believe that these high-powered editors at huge publishing houses know less than I do about identifying the genre of the manuscripts they're reviewing. So it makes me wonder what's up.
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Littlehawk
Hey Belle...tell ye folks to come an visit during the spring meet at Churchill Downs,,,,I might be able to show em an old Indian trick on reading the Daily Racing Forum .
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Digitalis
Laleo would love to see Grizzly Man and have popcorn but I think I missed it, have been dealing with the weather lately ...... sorry ....... Love popcorn and a good movie, can you make a second viewing?
As far as James Frey goes ......... he is still in the top 5 of Amazon book sales and his other book stated the top 20. So a disclaimer is put in the books ....... he is still making money, so is his publisher.
Oprah has cleared herself by confronting him on national television .......
Like I said earlier he was cleansed of Drugs and Alcohol but he never claimed to be clean of lying. He is making money of those embellishments ....... his ego won't be hurt to bad with all that money in his pocket and he will continue to write and make more money.
People are purchasing the books just to read about the bad boy character he portrayed himself as. People find it intriguing. The book for reading sake was a good book. It was a good read. I liked the book and read in less than a day. Readers will purchase it just for the rush of a good read. I am reader and seldom do interesting books really come about. An interesting author who can keep the momentum going is in a category of their own. We will see if Frey can keep up the momentum. Legally I don't think anything will hapen to him, but I may be wrong who knows.
Digi
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laleo
Slight derailment (forgive me, diazbro).
If anyone is interested in Grizzly Man, I highly recommend it. Like I said earlier, I first heard of this documentary in an NPR commentary about Frey's "memoir." In comparing the book with the documentary, the commentator used played back parts of an earlier interview, and noted that while each work is a factual misrepresentation of its subject matter, each tries to expose some sort of higher, deeper, "ecstatic" truth. My conclusion: The commentator gives Frey too much credit (since my impression of him is that he's more of a lying opportunist than a tortured artist), and not enough credit to the director of Grizzly Man. I can see where it isn't "factual" in the sense that it isn't a day-to-day recounting of Timothy Treadwell's Alaskan sojourns with the bears, but, rather, it's thematic. From what I can tell, the director is trying very hard to understand the aspirations and motivations of Treadwell's environmental activism, and while he doesn't understand, never understands (despite a valiant attempt) he maintains sympathy for his character. Great movie, for anyone inclined to watch it.
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diazbro
Frey admits to even more extensive fabrications and lies. Recall that upon the breaking of the newstory he denied ALL allegations that he lied, embellished, or fabricated. Two days after he admits to "some" embellishment. As time goes it looks like almost nothing in his book was true - certainly anything of a sensational nature. He says "`I altered events all the way through the book,''. This is much, much different from his earlier claims of modest embellishment.
At this point I wonder if this guy ever even had an addiction problem. See the following link and excerpt from it
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews...ip/13772434.htm
Posted on Thu, Feb. 02, 2006
Author explains that lies in book made a better story
James Frey on Wednesday offered the first detailed explanation of why he embellished and lied about events in ``A Million Little Pieces,'' his best-selling book: It made a better story. ``I wanted the stories in the book to ebb and flow, to have dramatic arcs, to have the tension that all great stories require,'' Frey said in an author's note released Wednesday that will be included in future editions of the book. ``I altered events all the way through the book,'' he added. On Jan. 26, Frey appeared on Oprah Winfrey's show and under her questioning, admitted to extensive fabrications. In his author's note, a three-page essay titled ``a note to the reader,'' Frey also said that officials at the rehab facility where he was treated had previously questioned his account of having a root canal procedure without anesthesia. Other events that Frey had previously defended as true but which, according to the statement, were invented, include ``my role in a train accident that killed a girl from my school.'' Overall, his portrayal in ``A Million Little Pieces,'' is of a person who ``I created in my mind to help me cope'' with drug addiction and recovery. The events and details were invented, he said, ``in order to serve what I felt was the greater purpose of the book,'' specifically to ``detail the fight addicts and alcoholics experience in their minds and in their bodies, and detail why that fight is difficult to win.'' ``I sincerely apologize to those readers who have been disappointed by my actions,'' he said.
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Tom Strange
I thought I read/heard somewhere that he (Frey) originally submitted it as "fiction" but the book house or editor changed it...
anyway... Grizzly Man will be on the Discovery Channel, 2/25 at 8 pm eastern time
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laleo
Well, his publisher dropped him. And the movie plans are on hold. So, I wonder, what does this say about Oprah? Is she a force for good? Curiously, this whole thing hasn't affected his book sales, except maybe for the better. Both of his novels are still in the top ten, which means he's set for life, even if his reputation isn't.
Hey, Stranger, if you watch Grizzly Man, let me know what you think of it.
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