Well.... at the time....many of us didn`t know that there HAD been a mass migration....it was all kept hush hush.
South America officially pulled away from the USA. I think that this was headed by Ricardo Caballiero...but am unsure.
At some point in here the newly installed bot of 5 was dissolved....Ricardo and John Townsend left.
My LC was fired by HA for sending Copies of Ricardo`s letter to the tc`s in our state.
That wasn`t so bad in and of itself....hq has the right to fire anyone they want to.....but these folks had served the ministry for YEARS ....and deserved a little better than being screamed at and dismissed. The sneaky thing is that HA then LIED about why our lc`s left.....acted like it was all planned and that the lc`s had decided to resign and move....Not a real BIG lie since the lc`s HAD planned on doing so at the end of the year anyway.....but never the less....it was the first time I had seen an out and out blatant falsehood from one if the hq leaders...It was very disquieting knowing that one as highly placed as ha was dishonset :(
Craig was crazy of course....he came to Emporia mid week one time..... and issued a last miniute invitation to the state to come for an informal mid day gathering....many couldn`t attend as we all had jobs and most had kids in school....
Well there was one creepy little guy from our town that attended and boasted to the great lcm that he PERSONALLY was the only one in our area standing with the ministry or doing anything for God.....now mind you there are people with 20 years of faithfull service to twi...many of us with a decade and more....you would think that this would rate a phone call to the lc to check out the nut`s veracity.....but oh heck no...craig just sees red and calls all of the tc`s and tells em that they are no longer associated with the way and must cease running fellowships immediatly.
It was very eye opening to see how spiritually inept that the president of our ministry was....Really scarey...it dawned on us that if he had had ANY discernment abilities or even half a brain...he would have surely seen what a conniving bu tt kissing little weazle that this guy was....this creep was the type that gave most people the creepy crawlies anyway.....but hey so as long as he stroked craigs fragile ego.....snort
I guess that would be an indicator of some of the crazy behavior that he exhibited post pop....booting out faithfull people on a whim.....
Everything else was kept hush hush on the field...we were given to understand that the problems were being addressed at hq and we were to continue in prayer and believing to support the ministry....most of us did so.
I was still out on "hiatus" from TWI during this time...got back in 1990, but I still had contact with "innies" during this time.
One thing that I recall was something that a woman who we babysat for told us. Most of the state leadership bolted from TWI, but kept a pretty low profile about it, acted like everything was still the same, the same twig, branch, limb structure was retained parrellel to the TWI "tree". The woman in question thought that she was attending a TWI sanctioned twig. She asked us one day how long it should take for TWI to cash a check. It turns out that the money was going to Scotland.
While I'm sure that the leaders and some others knew what was going on, some of the rank-and-file, at least this woman, had no idea what was going on. She was not a faithful three-twigs-a-week person, but kind of floated in and out. It indicates to me that once the break was made, there wasn't a lot of dwelling on it.
it dawned on us that if he had had ANY discernment abilities or even half a brain...he would have surely seen what a conniving bu tt kissing little weazle that this guy was...
Takes one to know one, but Martindale missed seeing some of the qualities in this guy thatmade him Wierwille's successor: bu tt kissing and weasling Edited by Oakspear
I may be wrong...but it seems in hind sight that ROA 86 and 87 marked the beginning of the legalism at the rock.... they began to lose their fun.
There were required twig meetings in the mid morning....it was announced that everyone should either be meeting with your twigs or at some teaching throughout the day.
We were expected to be in the wow and corpes promos and teaching series....
It was really wierd.... free time where you wandered around meeting old friends etc....was frowned upon.
It seemed like everything was becoming regulated ...like it was getting hard to breath.
I don`t remember anymore dances ...... no fun events.... it was all business and we should be there to learn the word....anything else was a waste of time.
Some of our corps had, in a great show of personal integrity, spilled the beans as to the going on at HQ and the mass exoduses, Ralph D was a personal friend of Paul and Kathy B and so we heard what they heard because they called a meeting of "like Minded" believers (leadership not included) and told us what he told them. I was already looking for a way out and lot of us made up our minds that night that we needed to seriously consider getting out.
It was 1987 when the Urquhart mess hit the fan in Anchorage and of course the Dilley's were mixed up in that inexorably. (this has been discussed ad nauseum on other threads and I'm not going to rehash here.) What it boiled down to in Anchorage was that everything was exposed for all to see..Alaska is just a huge small town and 20 years ago there were only about 300,000 people in the entire state so news spread like wildfire. Leadership who knew about the goings on at the Urquharts, knew what my hubby was up to, and were involved in their own twisted scenarios were busy CTA and pointing fingers not so much in an organized vindictiveness as a shotgun approach to defuse the situation. Most of the really good people in TWI were already gone or rapidly distancing themselves. For me --when you are in the middle of a fight with the state and everybody but you has a copy of the rulebook-- things like going or staying with TWI get pushed to the back. I ultimately did leave--some stayed, if DIGI is around she knows more about 1990 on since I was gone by then
I may be wrong...but it seems in hind sight that ROA 86 and 87 marked the beginning of the legalism at the rock.... they began to lose their fun.
There were required twig meetings in the mid morning....it was announced that everyone should either be meeting with your twigs or at some teaching throughout the day.
We were expected to be in the wow and corpes promos and teaching series....
It was really wierd.... free time where you wandered around meeting old friends etc....was frowned upon.
It seemed like everything was becoming regulated ...like it was getting hard to breath.
I don`t remember anymore dances ...... no fun events.... it was all business and we should be there to learn the word....anything else was a waste of time.
I agree with you Rascal
I had taken pfal in 1983. I was 19, married, and very excited to move the Word. It was great for 2 years. Then the calamity, legalism and the controlling started. Well... I thought, (being so young in the Word) that that was the way it was supposed to be. I felt constantly pressured to speak to everything that moved, and to drag them to fellowship. And God forbid!!! you even mention the word PRESSURE. Then a huge quilt trip would be placed on you that if you feel pressure then you REALLY don't want to move God's Word. It got real crazy in our area in Southern Calif. When vp died, it was a mystery to everyone and we were not to ask questions or talk about it. Everything was really being pushed on us to take all the classes, go WOW, go Corps. Then I went to my 1st ROA in 86, and everything was really wierd and in secret. Something had happened and there was great sadness and turmoil everywhere. My TC couldn't stop crying!. She wouldn't tell me why, so the whole time was nothing like everyone talked about. It was horrible and all I wanted was to go home. The truth was told to me shortly after that and also about the split and the rumers of LCM and VP's lascivious ways. We were basically told that it was all lies of the Devil. Later that year I was divorced, then moved out of the area and was in hiatus for about a year. Then I returned to a new area in Reno Nv. The believers were loving, but VERY VERY strong and legalistic. this was in 88. I ended up going WOW that year. I was only 1/2 hour away from HQ. So we were at all the SNS there. Everything seemed to be good, but then I found out what was really going on there when I went into the Corps. in 90. What a mess... But , I thank God that I got out before the 90's really hit.
I had taken pfal in 1983. I was 19, married, and very excited to move the Word. It was great for 2 years. Then the calamity, legalism and the controlling started. Well... I thought, (being so young in the Word) that that was the way it was supposed to be.
I felt constantly pressured to speak to everything that moved, and to drag them to fellowship. And God forbid!!! you even mention the word PRESSURE. Then a huge quilt trip would be placed on you that if you feel pressure then you REALLY don't want to move God's Word. It got real crazy in our area in Southern Calif. When vp died, it was a mystery to everyone and we were not to ask questions or talk about it.
Everything was really being pushed on us to take all the classes, go WOW, go Corps. Then I went to my 1st ROA in 86, and everything was really wierd and in secret. Something had happened and there was great sadness and turmoil everywhere. My TC couldn't stop crying!.
She wouldn't tell me why, so the whole time was nothing like everyone talked about. It was horrible and all I wanted was to go home. The truth was told to me shortly after that and also about the split and the rumers of LCM and VP's lascivious ways. We were basically told that it was all lies of the Devil.
Later that year I was divorced, then moved out of the area and was in hiatus for about a year. Then I returned to a new area in Reno Nv. The believers were loving, but VERY VERY strong and legalistic. this was in 88. I ended up going WOW that year. I was only 1/2 hour away from HQ.
So we were at all the SNS there. Everything seemed to be good, but then I found out what was really going on there when I went into the Corps. in 90. What a mess... But , I thank God that I got out before the 90's really hit.
When vp died, it was a mystery to everyone and we were not to ask questions or talk about it.
Everything was really being pushed on us to take all the classes, go WOW, go Corps.
Then I went to my 1st ROA in 86, and everything was really wierd and in secret. Something had happened and there was great sadness and turmoil everywhere. My TC couldn't stop crying!. She wouldn't tell me why, so the whole time was nothing like everyone talked about.
It was horrible and all I wanted was to go home.
The truth was told to me shortly after that and also about the split and the rumours of LCM and VP's lascivious ways. We were basically told that it was all lies of the Devil.
I was a TC at this time in Texas. I went to the ROA that year very confused. It was like Sunnyfla said, everything was weird and in secrecy. Maybe people didn't want to upset the boat for fear of losing the ministry.
Then I went home and a guy in my twig had been "enlightened" by an engaged Corps girls getting ready to go in residence who he was doing the "deed" with. Yes, this girl was engaged to a guy who was already a corps grad. She was going in to become Corps and serve with him, AND she was having a side thing with the guy in my twig. I think she just wanted to be "the one" with the story and blabbed it as much as she could. I think she got special permission to attend Corps Week that week because she finished her apprentice year and was going in rez. I just know I didn't like her actions.
This guy in my twig told me more than the BC or LC ever told anyone. The LC was basically non-existent. He was R*bert B*lt. He ended up cutting out shortly after that. Then we got Br*tt L*nn, who I think had a mental problem because he was so fixiated on collecting money from believers to go to South America and "Move the Word". He was one of those guys who were supposed to be dead during Vietnam. He had been cut up and shot up. I think he even had been a mercenary at one time. He was just weird at the last Limb meeting I saw him at. He even announced that he would be collecting money that would not go to HQ. It was very weird to me at the time. It was going to his mission. My 17th corps boyfriend at the time told me he thought it was weird and that he was going to South America to be involved with drug smuggling. I still laugh about that today. I think the LC was involved in helping Ricardo C. Just my IMHO. I still don't know for sure. He wasn't the LC shortly after all of this.
Anyway, we got nothing from the Limb, but the BCs said that if we received letteres from Ralph D, John L, or anyone else that we were not to read them because they were infused wit lies and that the devil spirits could affect us. I REALLY wanted to read one of those letters!! But I was scared as Hell of getting possessed.
The BCs lollied back and forth in their commitment to HQ. By the tiime I left Texas in 1988, they were not supporting HQ. Then I moved to Oregon (my home state), and I got a call from Mr. BC (in Texas) that they had gone to HQ and now they believed Craig was the Man of God. I was saying in my head "Whatever!!" I didn't know what I thought. I was even dating a 17th Corps guy at the time, and he was tight lipped. It was all very confusing.
I think that where you were and what you thought was easily influenced by people you were around or trusted. I was tossed to and fro during that time. When I left moved back to Oregon, I decided to take a break from twi. But the home town I lived in was scarce in work, so I moved to a larger city. I was bored and so I contacted wayfer and got back in to it all. This time, they were very supportive of Craig. I questioned everything. I was "marked".
When Craig declared support or get out, I refused to do either. I just wanted to hang out, but the Craig supporters basically ousted me. My WC roommate said I had to move. I emphatically said "NO!" I stayed for 3 more months until I got married. It was a weird time. The same WC roommate told me to stop having sex with my fiance in our house. Yet she was going over to another guy's house to bang him. WTF??? This guy was using her. She thought there was a relationship. Turns out later this guy leaves when Craig has his gay bashing time. This guy had gay tendencies, and he split when that crappola hit the fan. He was actually a pretty nice guy, just a little confused. I'm sure twi didn't help him. He probably spent years in turmoil about his sexual orientation.
Anyway, I had gotten married and my husband and I decided we would hang out with whomever wanted to hang out with us. There were a few who still supported Craig who would still talk to us. Then we hung out with the weirdo ex-LC (M*chael Strah*l). He was insane IMHO. I couldn't belive he was ever leadership. He had an affair going with a girl WHO LIVED IN HIS HOUSE. Right under his wife's nose. It is so sad.
We moved on to Northern California and the people my ex-husband knew were all Geer supporters. That all lasted about 6 months for me. I hated the inconsistency I saw in their fellowships and how TCs collected money which appeared to be for themselves. I talked my ex in to moving back to Oregon and going back to the "real" twi. Boy, talk about confusion.
Just after p.o.p. Mic**l Ad*ms and wife Fel**ia split out and went to South Africa (of all places).
Whilst there they contacted Gartmore and New Knoxville to see which one would support them with materials and other things.
They never got a reply from Gartmore, hence their loyalty went to Ohio.
Mic**l Ada*s and family are now the new Intl. Co-ord. at twi and I have to laugh at the 'irony' because he used to 'rant on' about how much he 'hated ' being around h.q. !!
His wife also loves the beaches (which is why they fell in love with New Zealand) and Mic**l absolutely adored his 'spanking new' fire engine red Holden Commodore motor vehicle !!
The wheels of Gods' justice grind slowly but finely !!
Oh and I (presume) he had to leave his 'concubine' behind too.
dmiller...Thanks for posting JAL's letter. I had read it years ago but perhaps many here had never seen it before.
One thing that stands out in my memory of those times was the fact that certain areas knew a lot of what was going on and others areas knew little or nothing...This, of course, depended on who the leaders were in each respective area (state, region, etc.)
I was in a state that knew little or nothing...we were getting the "mushroom" treatment (keep them in the dark and feed them with &$*#)...so...I decided to go and visit a dear friend of mine who happened to be the LC in another state (who had already quit twi)...He told me a LOT of what was happening...when I returned to my area and confronted my BC (clergy)...he began the process of "marking and avoiding" me...
It was a confusing and hurtful time for many people...the sins of twi leadership finally caught up with them and decimated the ministry. Thousands walked away.
One more thing...I recall several clergy guys who stated to the local believers that they were waiting to hear what Ralph had to say before they made up their minds...shortly after that, we were informed by hdqrts that Ralph was now "possessed" and not to listen to him...these same clergy guys who a week earlier were waiting to hear what Ralph had to say, were now saying not to listen to him! My opinion of these clergy guys was that they were gutless wonders and I started making my exit plans.
Oh yeah I had forgotten about the ralph n john days... Not ONLY were we told not to go.... we were told that not under ANY circumstances were we to even speak to anyone who HAD gone to the meeting when they were in the area......because they had probably become posesssed at the meeting.
What rediculous claims....though it wasn`t the first time that threat was successfully used to keep us from finding stuff out.
I cannot believe that we were so frail that we believed just talking to someone would get us posessed.....people from our area went....we mourned their loss to the body.
I wish that we had listened then.... we would have been out 5 yrs sooner.
Another thing I remember the super bowl in jan 86 or 87 I believe ...it was a biggie because the patriots were playing ..... we just knew that they had to win with a believer on the team....we all had super bowl parties....couldn`t believe that the pats lost with all of our *believing*....
About a year and a half ago, dmiller was kind enough to send me a copy of the 37-page letter dated February 26, 1987, from John & Pat Lynn, Tom Reahard, Ralph D. and Robert Belt, to the Five Trustees, explaining why they were leaving.
If anyone is interested, I will be happy to email you a PDF.
I was lucky in that I lived in an area with RD, had family there on the east coast, and a relative who was a leader. What I appreciated was how open and honest RD was. He called a meeting with us corps, I think VF was there, I believe it was for the state. He just laid it on the line, what was going on, and we were losing the Ministry. I also had other connections. Then came the terribly sad corps week.
When I got home, quite a few "regular" believers asked what was going on and I told them all I knew honestly. People have a right to know.
This year was my physical break - I had already been gone mentally. I told my leadership I could not guarantee I would be with TWI at this time next year. I had had it. Then came the LCM loyalty letter, that was when the leadership were all fired. Oddly enough, none of them seemed too upset. The exodus had been brewing for a long time, God was working in people's hearts to get them out. Then in my area anyway, you had the war and battle for people between LCM and CG. CG, who I detested, won in my area.
In 1987 I was living in a BC's house with my Mom in Eureka CA.
Seems the LC and other BC's from CA were having secret meetings in the house to come up with a plan on how to oust LCM. Although I was not present at these meetings I noticed something amiss with these guys and their wives. But I was only 18, what did I know?
Basically after 1986 - Yak twig stuff, that group (BOT expanded)Â kept wandering around like they got hit by a bus for a while. Â Geer tried to teach some BS on Corps nights about Legalism vs. Grace - some attempt at hypnotic mumbo jumbo about how he was the true ambassador of grace and everybody else has fallen into legalism like the 1st century church. Â Geer published to books that were by VPW but said "edited posthumously by CG". Â A real necromancer of a guy. Â He also was real mean and ADHD so eventually he lost interest tormenting the BOT and flew back to Europe to bring the blessing of his personality back there. Â
Eventually loytoy figured out the fork sticking in his eye was being wiggled from overseas, and gathered cowterd and dingdong out of their combined drooling state, and they basically signed a document telling Geer to f off. Â Well, it started as a document. Â Then it turned into a teaching. Â Then it turned into teaching the book of Galatians. Â The Galatians tapes. Â Part 1 and Part 2. Â Oh my. Â The drama. Â The emotion. Â The discerning of spirits. Â The number of things orbiting around Geer's head - straight out of a scene from the Haunted Mansion at Disneyland. Â His face even transfigured itself into Dr. Wierwille once accidentally when reproving loytoy. Â Oh, and also, this teaching series was the first to feature the "F" word in all parts of speech in a sentence - noun, pronoun, verb, adjective, and adverb. Â Masterful piece of work there.Â
In the midst of this, what else do we need to have? Â Purges, of course. Â The "loyalty" purge. Â Loytoy sends out a letter to all Corps asking people to respond who they stood with. Â A popular response was "why God and His Word of course". Â BZZZT. Â Wrong answer. Â People stood "with" the apostle Paul, not just with God and His Word. Â You are foggy my friend. Â You probably need to hear the Galatians tapes, which will be running for all believers on the field. Â Except Adv. Class grads only on Pt. 2 with the unique adjectives. Â So the "loyalty" purge in various stages consumed about 4/5 of the leadership of the Way - 80% of the Corps left, along with about that many in the ministry.
Walter tries to teach Thessalonians on Corps night, or reteach the Univ. of Life Thess actually.  It is horrible.  A snooze-fest.  Loytoy decides since he is all that in a set of tights that he can fire the research department and just teach it all himself.  Except he knows jack about research.  So he taps Wayne to do it all. He starts teaching Acts - the 8 sections from somewhere.  Writes the Rise and Expansion book.  Does R & E weekends at Emporia and around the country to try and regain some of the 80% that left.  Re-does the Foundational Class.  Comes to the premier in I swear to God an identical robe that Hugh Hefner wears in public. Â
New concepts come from all this Acts stuff. Â Loytoy gets the heavy revelation that the Word is Over the World. Â Yeah, we have accomplished it. Â Since the PFAL class has been available in every region of the world since sometime, it has been available for everyone in the world to get the Word. Â So what's next? Â Why, "The Prevailing Word" tm - to the world. Â And of course we don't need WOW's anymore. Â It's Way Disciple - the disciplined ones. Â No more going to the Rock and believing God for your money for WOW cutting hair. Â We're prevailing baby. Â
It's somewhat surprising to me that more hasn't been said in this thread about (or around) the first unveiling of the POP paper in '86. (Perhaps it was simply over discussed elsewhere on GSC.) Okay, I realize that most here aren't (and probably weren't at the time) fans of CG. Not saying it (the report of it) was perfect, nor was CG. Nevertheless, it was at the time (having left HQ less than a year prior to that), a breath of fresh air. Catching the jist of it (the same night it was first read at HQ), it plainly accounted for much of the... what should I sum it up as... "crap" happening (while at HQ, and around us where we fled to.) We had already (prior to the first reading of the POP) surmised that TWI might be in deep trouble, given the legalism we encountered out in the field, and had already made plans to move again to find out and/or confirm just how widespread or deep the infection ran. Little did we know at the time, how little we knew. Yet, relative to the misinformation - or simply, missing info - that other (WC) seemed to have, as surprising and as unexpected as it was, at least we weren't blindsided by it (the POP.) But neither were we blindsided by vpw's death. So, in short, we were very thankful for the relief that the POP paper brought. In retrospect, perhaps it was like the needle that popped an infectious sore. There was an immediate sigh of relief, realizing that there were reasons behind that dull, aching pain in our hearts, stirring up hope that things might soon improve. But, they didn't... at least, not in ways that we expected or thought they might. So, we continued drifting away... which perhaps in certain respects, made it more difficult to relate to or understand why those with more insight or knowledge (apparently much more) than we knew, continued on with TWI for as long as they have (or did), especially after reading how much farther down the road of legalism, control, and outright manipulation it traveled.
That's interesting, TLC, about how you felt relief when POP was published. These were formative year for me in early TWI involvement. But I was in the UK. Some WC were nice and easy to get on with; others were hard, dogmatic, things had to be done in such a way. Perhaps they too were confused and didn't know where things were going. Meantime, we have CG parading around Europe and specifically the UK. He had been "given" the UK to oversee, and obediently people "followed" his lead, which was so legalistic ... well, you know what he was like. Others maybe saw through him and gave allegiance to the USA (HQ). It was a very peculiar time.
CG got hold of Gartmore House on the shores of Loch Lomond in Scotland. It is a stunningly beautiful location, and believers from all over the UK travelled there regularly. (I have my own tales about that time: not a blessing!) I saw through CG at the first weekend and never wanted anything to do with him, so the decision to stick with TWI based in Ohio was easy. That caused rifts and much unpleasantness (again, there are tales: not a blessing!) with some of the other believers, one of whom I had sponsored as a spiritual partner.
WC were based at Gartmore, and believers especially from all over the UK went to help with the refurbishment. CG rounded on them and said they weren't doing work up to scratch and he had to do everything himself to make sure it was done right. He alienated many people but was all smiles and smarm when "teaching" or otherwise the centre of attention. I think he dismissed a number of the "incompetent" WC - but maybe it was just the ones who (to him) didn't seem fully committed to him.
You will notice there are no people who 'fess up to being E-corps who post here. (If I'm wrong about that and there are some E-corps, do PM me please!).
Recommended Posts
rascal
Well.... at the time....many of us didn`t know that there HAD been a mass migration....it was all kept hush hush.
South America officially pulled away from the USA. I think that this was headed by Ricardo Caballiero...but am unsure.
At some point in here the newly installed bot of 5 was dissolved....Ricardo and John Townsend left.
My LC was fired by HA for sending Copies of Ricardo`s letter to the tc`s in our state.
That wasn`t so bad in and of itself....hq has the right to fire anyone they want to.....but these folks had served the ministry for YEARS ....and deserved a little better than being screamed at and dismissed. The sneaky thing is that HA then LIED about why our lc`s left.....acted like it was all planned and that the lc`s had decided to resign and move....Not a real BIG lie since the lc`s HAD planned on doing so at the end of the year anyway.....but never the less....it was the first time I had seen an out and out blatant falsehood from one if the hq leaders...It was very disquieting knowing that one as highly placed as ha was dishonset :(
Craig was crazy of course....he came to Emporia mid week one time..... and issued a last miniute invitation to the state to come for an informal mid day gathering....many couldn`t attend as we all had jobs and most had kids in school....
Well there was one creepy little guy from our town that attended and boasted to the great lcm that he PERSONALLY was the only one in our area standing with the ministry or doing anything for God.....now mind you there are people with 20 years of faithfull service to twi...many of us with a decade and more....you would think that this would rate a phone call to the lc to check out the nut`s veracity.....but oh heck no...craig just sees red and calls all of the tc`s and tells em that they are no longer associated with the way and must cease running fellowships immediatly.
It was very eye opening to see how spiritually inept that the president of our ministry was....Really scarey...it dawned on us that if he had had ANY discernment abilities or even half a brain...he would have surely seen what a conniving bu tt kissing little weazle that this guy was....this creep was the type that gave most people the creepy crawlies anyway.....but hey so as long as he stroked craigs fragile ego.....snort
I guess that would be an indicator of some of the crazy behavior that he exhibited post pop....booting out faithfull people on a whim.....
Everything else was kept hush hush on the field...we were given to understand that the problems were being addressed at hq and we were to continue in prayer and believing to support the ministry....most of us did so.
Edited by rascalLink to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
I was still out on "hiatus" from TWI during this time...got back in 1990, but I still had contact with "innies" during this time.
One thing that I recall was something that a woman who we babysat for told us. Most of the state leadership bolted from TWI, but kept a pretty low profile about it, acted like everything was still the same, the same twig, branch, limb structure was retained parrellel to the TWI "tree". The woman in question thought that she was attending a TWI sanctioned twig. She asked us one day how long it should take for TWI to cash a check. It turns out that the money was going to Scotland.
While I'm sure that the leaders and some others knew what was going on, some of the rank-and-file, at least this woman, had no idea what was going on. She was not a faithful three-twigs-a-week person, but kind of floated in and out. It indicates to me that once the break was made, there wasn't a lot of dwelling on it.
Takes one to know one, but Martindale missed seeing some of the qualities in this guy thatmade him Wierwille's successor: bu tt kissing and weaslingLink to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
I may be wrong...but it seems in hind sight that ROA 86 and 87 marked the beginning of the legalism at the rock.... they began to lose their fun.
There were required twig meetings in the mid morning....it was announced that everyone should either be meeting with your twigs or at some teaching throughout the day.
We were expected to be in the wow and corpes promos and teaching series....
It was really wierd.... free time where you wandered around meeting old friends etc....was frowned upon.
It seemed like everything was becoming regulated ...like it was getting hard to breath.
I don`t remember anymore dances ...... no fun events.... it was all business and we should be there to learn the word....anything else was a waste of time.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
templelady
Some of our corps had, in a great show of personal integrity, spilled the beans as to the going on at HQ and the mass exoduses, Ralph D was a personal friend of Paul and Kathy B and so we heard what they heard because they called a meeting of "like Minded" believers (leadership not included) and told us what he told them. I was already looking for a way out and lot of us made up our minds that night that we needed to seriously consider getting out.
It was 1987 when the Urquhart mess hit the fan in Anchorage and of course the Dilley's were mixed up in that inexorably. (this has been discussed ad nauseum on other threads and I'm not going to rehash here.) What it boiled down to in Anchorage was that everything was exposed for all to see..Alaska is just a huge small town and 20 years ago there were only about 300,000 people in the entire state so news spread like wildfire. Leadership who knew about the goings on at the Urquharts, knew what my hubby was up to, and were involved in their own twisted scenarios were busy CTA and pointing fingers not so much in an organized vindictiveness as a shotgun approach to defuse the situation. Most of the really good people in TWI were already gone or rapidly distancing themselves. For me --when you are in the middle of a fight with the state and everybody but you has a copy of the rulebook-- things like going or staying with TWI get pushed to the back. I ultimately did leave--some stayed, if DIGI is around she knows more about 1990 on since I was gone by then
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sunnyfla
I agree with you Rascal
I had taken pfal in 1983. I was 19, married, and very excited to move the Word. It was great for 2 years. Then the calamity, legalism and the controlling started. Well... I thought, (being so young in the Word) that that was the way it was supposed to be. I felt constantly pressured to speak to everything that moved, and to drag them to fellowship. And God forbid!!! you even mention the word PRESSURE. Then a huge quilt trip would be placed on you that if you feel pressure then you REALLY don't want to move God's Word. It got real crazy in our area in Southern Calif. When vp died, it was a mystery to everyone and we were not to ask questions or talk about it. Everything was really being pushed on us to take all the classes, go WOW, go Corps. Then I went to my 1st ROA in 86, and everything was really wierd and in secret. Something had happened and there was great sadness and turmoil everywhere. My TC couldn't stop crying!. She wouldn't tell me why, so the whole time was nothing like everyone talked about. It was horrible and all I wanted was to go home. The truth was told to me shortly after that and also about the split and the rumers of LCM and VP's lascivious ways. We were basically told that it was all lies of the Devil. Later that year I was divorced, then moved out of the area and was in hiatus for about a year. Then I returned to a new area in Reno Nv. The believers were loving, but VERY VERY strong and legalistic. this was in 88. I ended up going WOW that year. I was only 1/2 hour away from HQ. So we were at all the SNS there. Everything seemed to be good, but then I found out what was really going on there when I went into the Corps. in 90. What a mess... But , I thank God that I got out before the 90's really hit.
Edited by SunnyflaLink to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
So much easier to read this way!! :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
moony3424
David, you are elected our official editor. B)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
I was a TC at this time in Texas. I went to the ROA that year very confused. It was like Sunnyfla said, everything was weird and in secrecy. Maybe people didn't want to upset the boat for fear of losing the ministry.
Then I went home and a guy in my twig had been "enlightened" by an engaged Corps girls getting ready to go in residence who he was doing the "deed" with. Yes, this girl was engaged to a guy who was already a corps grad. She was going in to become Corps and serve with him, AND she was having a side thing with the guy in my twig. I think she just wanted to be "the one" with the story and blabbed it as much as she could. I think she got special permission to attend Corps Week that week because she finished her apprentice year and was going in rez. I just know I didn't like her actions.
This guy in my twig told me more than the BC or LC ever told anyone. The LC was basically non-existent. He was R*bert B*lt. He ended up cutting out shortly after that. Then we got Br*tt L*nn, who I think had a mental problem because he was so fixiated on collecting money from believers to go to South America and "Move the Word". He was one of those guys who were supposed to be dead during Vietnam. He had been cut up and shot up. I think he even had been a mercenary at one time. He was just weird at the last Limb meeting I saw him at. He even announced that he would be collecting money that would not go to HQ. It was very weird to me at the time. It was going to his mission. My 17th corps boyfriend at the time told me he thought it was weird and that he was going to South America to be involved with drug smuggling. I still laugh about that today. I think the LC was involved in helping Ricardo C. Just my IMHO. I still don't know for sure. He wasn't the LC shortly after all of this.
Anyway, we got nothing from the Limb, but the BCs said that if we received letteres from Ralph D, John L, or anyone else that we were not to read them because they were infused wit lies and that the devil spirits could affect us. I REALLY wanted to read one of those letters!! But I was scared as Hell of getting possessed.
The BCs lollied back and forth in their commitment to HQ. By the tiime I left Texas in 1988, they were not supporting HQ. Then I moved to Oregon (my home state), and I got a call from Mr. BC (in Texas) that they had gone to HQ and now they believed Craig was the Man of God. I was saying in my head "Whatever!!" I didn't know what I thought. I was even dating a 17th Corps guy at the time, and he was tight lipped. It was all very confusing.
I think that where you were and what you thought was easily influenced by people you were around or trusted. I was tossed to and fro during that time. When I left moved back to Oregon, I decided to take a break from twi. But the home town I lived in was scarce in work, so I moved to a larger city. I was bored and so I contacted wayfer and got back in to it all. This time, they were very supportive of Craig. I questioned everything. I was "marked".
When Craig declared support or get out, I refused to do either. I just wanted to hang out, but the Craig supporters basically ousted me. My WC roommate said I had to move. I emphatically said "NO!" I stayed for 3 more months until I got married. It was a weird time. The same WC roommate told me to stop having sex with my fiance in our house. Yet she was going over to another guy's house to bang him. WTF??? This guy was using her. She thought there was a relationship. Turns out later this guy leaves when Craig has his gay bashing time. This guy had gay tendencies, and he split when that crappola hit the fan. He was actually a pretty nice guy, just a little confused. I'm sure twi didn't help him. He probably spent years in turmoil about his sexual orientation.
Anyway, I had gotten married and my husband and I decided we would hang out with whomever wanted to hang out with us. There were a few who still supported Craig who would still talk to us. Then we hung out with the weirdo ex-LC (M*chael Strah*l). He was insane IMHO. I couldn't belive he was ever leadership. He had an affair going with a girl WHO LIVED IN HIS HOUSE. Right under his wife's nose. It is so sad.
We moved on to Northern California and the people my ex-husband knew were all Geer supporters. That all lasted about 6 months for me. I hated the inconsistency I saw in their fellowships and how TCs collected money which appeared to be for themselves. I talked my ex in to moving back to Oregon and going back to the "real" twi. Boy, talk about confusion.
That's what the time after POP was like for me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Allan
Just after p.o.p. Mic**l Ad*ms and wife Fel**ia split out and went to South Africa (of all places).
Whilst there they contacted Gartmore and New Knoxville to see which one would support them with materials and other things.
They never got a reply from Gartmore, hence their loyalty went to Ohio.
Mic**l Ada*s and family are now the new Intl. Co-ord. at twi and I have to laugh at the 'irony' because he used to 'rant on' about how much he 'hated ' being around h.q. !!
His wife also loves the beaches (which is why they fell in love with New Zealand) and Mic**l absolutely adored his 'spanking new' fire engine red Holden Commodore motor vehicle !!
The wheels of Gods' justice grind slowly but finely !!
Oh and I (presume) he had to leave his 'concubine' behind too.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Here is John's letter, if you've never read it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
dmiller...Thanks for posting JAL's letter. I had read it years ago but perhaps many here had never seen it before.
One thing that stands out in my memory of those times was the fact that certain areas knew a lot of what was going on and others areas knew little or nothing...This, of course, depended on who the leaders were in each respective area (state, region, etc.)
I was in a state that knew little or nothing...we were getting the "mushroom" treatment (keep them in the dark and feed them with &$*#)...so...I decided to go and visit a dear friend of mine who happened to be the LC in another state (who had already quit twi)...He told me a LOT of what was happening...when I returned to my area and confronted my BC (clergy)...he began the process of "marking and avoiding" me...
It was a confusing and hurtful time for many people...the sins of twi leadership finally caught up with them and decimated the ministry. Thousands walked away.
One more thing...I recall several clergy guys who stated to the local believers that they were waiting to hear what Ralph had to say before they made up their minds...shortly after that, we were informed by hdqrts that Ralph was now "possessed" and not to listen to him...these same clergy guys who a week earlier were waiting to hear what Ralph had to say, were now saying not to listen to him! My opinion of these clergy guys was that they were gutless wonders and I started making my exit plans.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Oh yeah I had forgotten about the ralph n john days... Not ONLY were we told not to go.... we were told that not under ANY circumstances were we to even speak to anyone who HAD gone to the meeting when they were in the area......because they had probably become posesssed at the meeting.
What rediculous claims....though it wasn`t the first time that threat was successfully used to keep us from finding stuff out.
I cannot believe that we were so frail that we believed just talking to someone would get us posessed.....people from our area went....we mourned their loss to the body.
I wish that we had listened then.... we would have been out 5 yrs sooner.
Another thing I remember the super bowl in jan 86 or 87 I believe ...it was a biggie because the patriots were playing ..... we just knew that they had to win with a believer on the team....we all had super bowl parties....couldn`t believe that the pats lost with all of our *believing*....
Edited by rascalLink to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
About a year and a half ago, dmiller was kind enough to send me a copy of the 37-page letter dated February 26, 1987, from John & Pat Lynn, Tom Reahard, Ralph D. and Robert Belt, to the Five Trustees, explaining why they were leaving.
If anyone is interested, I will be happy to email you a PDF.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
Oldies,
Boy, did you change! It looks like you got a lot of sun this weekend. Did you go on vacation? :)
I would be interested in seeing that pdf format of the letter. Please email it to wayferlookin@yahoo.com.
Thanks,
Wayfer NOT!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
What do you remember from this timeframe?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sunesis
I was lucky in that I lived in an area with RD, had family there on the east coast, and a relative who was a leader. What I appreciated was how open and honest RD was. He called a meeting with us corps, I think VF was there, I believe it was for the state. He just laid it on the line, what was going on, and we were losing the Ministry. I also had other connections. Then came the terribly sad corps week.
When I got home, quite a few "regular" believers asked what was going on and I told them all I knew honestly. People have a right to know.
This year was my physical break - I had already been gone mentally. I told my leadership I could not guarantee I would be with TWI at this time next year. I had had it. Then came the LCM loyalty letter, that was when the leadership were all fired. Oddly enough, none of them seemed too upset. The exodus had been brewing for a long time, God was working in people's hearts to get them out. Then in my area anyway, you had the war and battle for people between LCM and CG. CG, who I detested, won in my area.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Seth R.
In 1987 I was living in a BC's house with my Mom in Eureka CA.
Seems the LC and other BC's from CA were having secret meetings in the house to come up with a plan on how to oust LCM. Although I was not present at these meetings I noticed something amiss with these guys and their wives. But I was only 18, what did I know?
Seth
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
The Fog Years didn't draw so many posts, either....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
'Da Fog Years - TM. Â 1985 - 1989
Basically after 1986 - Yak twig stuff, that group (BOT expanded)Â kept wandering around like they got hit by a bus for a while. Â Geer tried to teach some BS on Corps nights about Legalism vs. Grace - some attempt at hypnotic mumbo jumbo about how he was the true ambassador of grace and everybody else has fallen into legalism like the 1st century church. Â Geer published to books that were by VPW but said "edited posthumously by CG". Â A real necromancer of a guy. Â He also was real mean and ADHD so eventually he lost interest tormenting the BOT and flew back to Europe to bring the blessing of his personality back there. Â
Eventually loytoy figured out the fork sticking in his eye was being wiggled from overseas, and gathered cowterd and dingdong out of their combined drooling state, and they basically signed a document telling Geer to f off. Â Well, it started as a document. Â Then it turned into a teaching. Â Then it turned into teaching the book of Galatians. Â The Galatians tapes. Â Part 1 and Part 2. Â Oh my. Â The drama. Â The emotion. Â The discerning of spirits. Â The number of things orbiting around Geer's head - straight out of a scene from the Haunted Mansion at Disneyland. Â His face even transfigured itself into Dr. Wierwille once accidentally when reproving loytoy. Â Oh, and also, this teaching series was the first to feature the "F" word in all parts of speech in a sentence - noun, pronoun, verb, adjective, and adverb. Â Masterful piece of work there.Â
In the midst of this, what else do we need to have? Â Purges, of course. Â The "loyalty" purge. Â Loytoy sends out a letter to all Corps asking people to respond who they stood with. Â A popular response was "why God and His Word of course". Â BZZZT. Â Wrong answer. Â People stood "with" the apostle Paul, not just with God and His Word. Â You are foggy my friend. Â You probably need to hear the Galatians tapes, which will be running for all believers on the field. Â Except Adv. Class grads only on Pt. 2 with the unique adjectives. Â So the "loyalty" purge in various stages consumed about 4/5 of the leadership of the Way - 80% of the Corps left, along with about that many in the ministry.
Walter tries to teach Thessalonians on Corps night, or reteach the Univ. of Life Thess actually.  It is horrible.  A snooze-fest.  Loytoy decides since he is all that in a set of tights that he can fire the research department and just teach it all himself.  Except he knows jack about research.  So he taps Wayne to do it all. He starts teaching Acts - the 8 sections from somewhere.  Writes the Rise and Expansion book.  Does R & E weekends at Emporia and around the country to try and regain some of the 80% that left.  Re-does the Foundational Class.  Comes to the premier in I swear to God an identical robe that Hugh Hefner wears in public. Â
New concepts come from all this Acts stuff. Â Loytoy gets the heavy revelation that the Word is Over the World. Â Yeah, we have accomplished it. Â Since the PFAL class has been available in every region of the world since sometime, it has been available for everyone in the world to get the Word. Â So what's next? Â Why, "The Prevailing Word" tm - to the world. Â And of course we don't need WOW's anymore. Â It's Way Disciple - the disciplined ones. Â No more going to the Rock and believing God for your money for WOW cutting hair. Â We're prevailing baby. Â
More later....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Old documents section links hold many more details plus corrections on some timeline stuff.....
https://web.archive.org/web/20120911095016/http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/pdf-documents.html
Covers years 89-97:
Plus many more details surrounding this story thread.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TLC
It's somewhat surprising to me that more hasn't been said in this thread about (or around) the first unveiling of the POP paper in '86. (Perhaps it was simply over discussed elsewhere on GSC.) Okay, I realize that most here aren't (and probably weren't at the time) fans of CG. Not saying it (the report of it) was perfect, nor was CG. Nevertheless, it was at the time (having left HQ less than a year prior to that), a breath of fresh air. Catching the jist of it (the same night it was first read at HQ), it plainly accounted for much of the... what should I sum it up as... "crap" happening (while at HQ, and around us where we fled to.) We had already (prior to the first reading of the POP) surmised that TWI might be in deep trouble, given the legalism we encountered out in the field, and had already made plans to move again to find out and/or confirm just how widespread or deep the infection ran. Little did we know at the time, how little we knew. Yet, relative to the misinformation - or simply, missing info - that other (WC) seemed to have, as surprising and as unexpected as it was, at least we weren't blindsided by it (the POP.) But neither were we blindsided by vpw's death. So, in short, we were very thankful for the relief that the POP paper brought. In retrospect, perhaps it was like the needle that popped an infectious sore. There was an immediate sigh of relief, realizing that there were reasons behind that dull, aching pain in our hearts, stirring up hope that things might soon improve. But, they didn't... at least, not in ways that we expected or thought they might. So, we continued drifting away... which perhaps in certain respects, made it more difficult to relate to or understand why those with more insight or knowledge (apparently much more) than we knew, continued on with TWI for as long as they have (or did), especially after reading how much farther down the road of legalism, control, and outright manipulation it traveled.
Edited by TLCLink to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
That's interesting, TLC, about how you felt relief when POP was published. These were formative year for me in early TWI involvement. But I was in the UK. Some WC were nice and easy to get on with; others were hard, dogmatic, things had to be done in such a way. Perhaps they too were confused and didn't know where things were going. Meantime, we have CG parading around Europe and specifically the UK. He had been "given" the UK to oversee, and obediently people "followed" his lead, which was so legalistic ... well, you know what he was like. Others maybe saw through him and gave allegiance to the USA (HQ). It was a very peculiar time.
CG got hold of Gartmore House on the shores of Loch Lomond in Scotland. It is a stunningly beautiful location, and believers from all over the UK travelled there regularly. (I have my own tales about that time: not a blessing!) I saw through CG at the first weekend and never wanted anything to do with him, so the decision to stick with TWI based in Ohio was easy. That caused rifts and much unpleasantness (again, there are tales: not a blessing!) with some of the other believers, one of whom I had sponsored as a spiritual partner.
WC were based at Gartmore, and believers especially from all over the UK went to help with the refurbishment. CG rounded on them and said they weren't doing work up to scratch and he had to do everything himself to make sure it was done right. He alienated many people but was all smiles and smarm when "teaching" or otherwise the centre of attention. I think he dismissed a number of the "incompetent" WC - but maybe it was just the ones who (to him) didn't seem fully committed to him.
You will notice there are no people who 'fess up to being E-corps who post here. (If I'm wrong about that and there are some E-corps, do PM me please!).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
higherground30
Was not even born around this time but know it was the start of the 'fog years' thanks to owner Michael Scherling for sharingÂ
Â
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.