Sad but true, only one survived, and he's in critical condition, on a ventilator.
Those poor families. I understand how the miscommunication might have happened. What I don't get is why it took the officials 3 hours to tell them about the mistake, when they reportedly knew within 20 minutes that only one miner was alive, rather than 12. :(
What a compounded tragedy! My sincere apologies for spreading the false report. As of this morning, one is still alive, and his family still has hope. When I posted this thread the families were jubilant at the announcement of 12 alive. Even my morning paper headline is 12 alive. (the tragic victim of the 'putting it to bed' time deadlines of newsprint)
I am saddened by the rollercoaster those families must have ridden. They were so happy last night, having faced a day of dwindling hopes, with their heads high and faith strong. I pray that God can give them solace in something, they deserve it.
~HAP
edited to add: It appears that the wrong information concerning survivors persisted for 3 hours! That is three hours that those folks experienced a false joy and celebration of relief. SOMEONE should have told them "Hold everything, where are you families hearing your news? That is NOT the official information coming from command central. We will keep you posted as soon as we verify the outcome, please hope and pray with us"
I'm working at home today so have had cable news going in the background for much of the day.
The CEO of the mine company said in a press conference that if he had to do it over, he'd have gone to the church where the families were waiting and told them that they were getting conflicting reports about who had survived and who hadn't. One of his colleagues said that the mere logistics of getting to the nearby church were daunting because there was so much traffic between the mine and the church. The CEO also said that at the point when he heard, "No, 11 are dead," he didn't know which report to believe and didn't want to tell the families unless the 2nd report was confirmed to be true. He might just be covering butt, but I get the impression that they were doing the best they could under way less than optimal circumstances.
I fully understand the human tendency to grab for any good news and the tendency to want to shout good news from the rooftops. Although the rescue workers were told not to release any info about the miners until it was confirmed, it would be damn hard not to let out a shout of joy if you thought you heard "12 alive!" One person interviewed said that it wasn't someone from the mine company but a Red Cross worker who came to the church with the false report of 12 alive. Either way, I get how the first, wrong report got so quickly spread.
What I don't get is how this mine was still operating when 17 or 18 (again, conflicting reports) of its most recent safety citations were severe enough to warrant a shut-down. I have to ask if all the violations they were cited for had been corrected before this tragic accident. If the company has skirted the law in any way or if the gov't officials have turned a blind eye to the need to correct the unsafe conditions, then I'd say heads should roll.
Nellie -- from what I have heard (emphasis on heard), the company that now owns the mine just aquired aquisition of it this last November. They were aware of *deficiencies*, and moved to correct them as best they could.
They (according to what I heard), were working on alleviating all, but this happened before they (obviously) did not correct all.
Regardless --- it is still tragedy.
The CEO of the mine company said in a press conference that if he had to do it over, he'd have gone to the church where the families were waiting and told them that they were getting conflicting reports about who had survived and who hadn't.
One of his colleagues said that the mere logistics of getting to the nearby church were daunting because there was so much traffic between the mine and the church. The CEO also said that at the point when he heard, "No, 11 are dead," he didn't know which report to believe and didn't want to tell the families unless the 2nd report was confirmed to be true.
He might just be covering butt, but I get the impression that they were doing the best they could under way less than optimal circumstances.
I did hear a couple of miners from the Sago mine interviewed who said that since the new compnay took over, great strides had been made in improving the conditions and safety.
Miners know they're in a dangerous occupation. Several family members have said their father/husband, etc., said he always knew he'd die in a mine. That doesn't make it any less heartbreaking when it happens, though.
I have a cousin who was a coal miner. She had to leave the mines when her breathing became so bad that she couldn't continue. There are so many health risks, in addition to the safety risks of cave-ins and explosions and such. My great-grandfather was a coal miner, first in Pennsylvania and later in Illinois. He was almost blind when he died, which was a common consequence of mining in the 19th and early 20th century.
I have a hunch that no matter what measures the mining companies take to make it safer, it's never going to be as safe as sitting at a computer all day or selling ties at Macy's. But I heard that 50% of our energy in this country depends on burning coal. Seems to me we ought to be putting more effort into finding alternative energy sources that don't require coal, for this and several other obvious reasons.
Coal is much to valuable a resource to just leave it in the ground. There are much cleaner ways to use it now than what once was. Mines need to be much safer and maybe more mechanization might help. They use robots in the auto industry, maybe they should look into using them here too.
The miners families and communities have my prayers also.
As somebody who has spent time in a coal mine (Eastern KY vs W. Va), I can tell you that it is an inherently dangerous occupation. Keeping good air flow through the mine is critical, not only to protect from carbon monoxide, but also to keep explosive gasses under control, as well. They have vent shafts drilled in the mountain and constantly are working to keep the air moving in a mine.
The most dangerous time in a mine is for several minutes after they blast a shelf of coal loose. A huge amount of coal dust is suspended in the air as the result of the blast. This suspended dust is explosive in of itself (ever heard of a grain elevator exploding -- it's the same phenomenon -- a single spark of electricity can cause the suspended dust to ignite). Coupled with the fact that methane gas is often present with coal, it can be a very, very hazardous situation. There are detectors that are present to detect excessive levels of methane and if the levels rise to a certain level, additional ventilation is put in place. If they continue to rise, the mine is evacuated until such time as they can get the levels under control. There are also detectors for carbon monoxide gas, as well. Same thing happens.
Having said that, the most dangerous time is right after a blast...because there is literally NOTHING that can be done until the dust is cleared out of the air. A remarkably small spark (a nail in a boot hitting another piece of metal, disconnecting the electrical wires from the detonator, a short in the wires that lead to the fuze, anything) can cause a HUGE explosion. If something like this happens, a portion of the ceiling could cave in, which would interrupt the air flow through the mine. Then, the hazardous gasses could build up...and those hazardous gasses could build up.
There are normally a minimum of two shafts sunk for any mine. This allows for that air flow through the mine.
But, as has been pointed out, it is a very, very hazardous job and some of the hazards are inherent to the job. Really the only way to make it at all safe is to evacuate the mine completely when they do a blast. That would reduce the efficiency of the mine to practically a standstill. They normally do at least one to two blasts per shift. Depending upon the size of the mine. If they had to evacuate the crew from the mine every time they did a blast, it would cut at least 50% of the efficiency from a mine.
That experience: my uncle owned a mine for a few years. I spent a summer with him earning money while I was in high school. My parents could have killed him when they found out what he had me doing to earn the money.
It's funny you mention strip mining, Mark, because I've been thinking about that for a couple days. IF the mining companies could restore the land after strip mining, rather than leaving those big, ugly gashes in it, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea. Problem is, coal mining is the only good-paying job in a lot of these rural areas, so lots of people would lose their jobs if companies were permitted to switch to strip mining.
It's funny you mention strip mining, Mark, because I've been thinking about that for a couple days. IF the mining companies could restore the land after strip mining, rather than leaving those big, ugly gashes in it, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea. Problem is, coal mining is the only good-paying job in a lot of these rural areas, so lots of people would lose their jobs if companies were permitted to switch to strip mining.
Trouble is, they can't restore the land. Not just that they don't want to...they can't. Coal is located in veins that lie between rock strata...when they strip mine, they destroy the rock strata above the coal vein. No matter what kind of cosmetic work they do, the geology of the area is permanently destroyed. I've you've ever driven on a highway that goes through cut in a mountain, you can visibly see that...the different layers of rock...
What happens with a restoration, they put down a layer of sealing clay to prevent seepage into any ground water that may lie below the gash. They then pile layers of rubble that were removed. They then cover it with topsoil and plant above it. While it may look somewhat attractive, it isn't the same as what was there before. The environment is permanently destroyed...no matter how it looks...
Some of my relatives on my Dad's side of the family (who live in the DuQuoin/ Carbondale area of southern Illinois) have a cabin on a lake there, that used to be a strip pit. My uncle worked for one of the mining companies there, and he bought the land around one of those abandoned pits, and took an old foreman's cabin they were going to tear down, and moved it to his property.
The place was a *scar* on the landscape, but as the pit started to fill with water, trees grew on the hills, and bit by bit it *filled out*. It was pretty ugly for many years, but nature took it's course, and it is now quite beautiful there with all the trees, waterways, etc.
Granted it took 20 (or so years) for this to occur, but happen it did -- no thanks to the mining company that left it for *blacker* fields. :)
Strip mining is an ugly, ugly business. I have seen whole mountains brought down in order to get a rich vein of coal. It has destroyed thousands of acres of some of the most beautiful land in the country.
Of course, David, you should be as familiar with any of us with strip mining living up there in Northern MN...you have the Iron pits out there in the range...
Of course, David, you should be as familiar with any of us with strip mining living up there in Northern MN...you have the Iron pits out there in the range...
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dmiller
Praise the Lord!
Was the 13th man found at all, or was he found dead?
My prayers go out to his family.
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Shellon
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dmiller
Thanks Shellon.
Damn. He didn't make it. :(
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dmiller
I don't know what to believe now!!!
L.A. TIMES
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Linda Z
Sad but true, only one survived, and he's in critical condition, on a ventilator.
Those poor families. I understand how the miscommunication might have happened. What I don't get is why it took the officials 3 hours to tell them about the mistake, when they reportedly knew within 20 minutes that only one miner was alive, rather than 12. :(
Those folks need our prayers.
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marypoppins
These families sure need our prayers,
I heard about it at 7.00am uk time. They to reported that all were alive, Then a short time later
reported only one survived, The devastation of losing someone dear is unbearable.
My heart and Prayers go out to the families in West Virginia,
marypoppins
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HAPe4me
What a compounded tragedy! My sincere apologies for spreading the false report. As of this morning, one is still alive, and his family still has hope. When I posted this thread the families were jubilant at the announcement of 12 alive. Even my morning paper headline is 12 alive. (the tragic victim of the 'putting it to bed' time deadlines of newsprint)
I am saddened by the rollercoaster those families must have ridden. They were so happy last night, having faced a day of dwindling hopes, with their heads high and faith strong. I pray that God can give them solace in something, they deserve it.
~HAP
edited to add: It appears that the wrong information concerning survivors persisted for 3 hours! That is three hours that those folks experienced a false joy and celebration of relief. SOMEONE should have told them "Hold everything, where are you families hearing your news? That is NOT the official information coming from command central. We will keep you posted as soon as we verify the outcome, please hope and pray with us"
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
heads should roll
whoever is responsible for saying that there were 12 survivors thier heads should roll
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Linda Z
I'm working at home today so have had cable news going in the background for much of the day.
The CEO of the mine company said in a press conference that if he had to do it over, he'd have gone to the church where the families were waiting and told them that they were getting conflicting reports about who had survived and who hadn't. One of his colleagues said that the mere logistics of getting to the nearby church were daunting because there was so much traffic between the mine and the church. The CEO also said that at the point when he heard, "No, 11 are dead," he didn't know which report to believe and didn't want to tell the families unless the 2nd report was confirmed to be true. He might just be covering butt, but I get the impression that they were doing the best they could under way less than optimal circumstances.
I fully understand the human tendency to grab for any good news and the tendency to want to shout good news from the rooftops. Although the rescue workers were told not to release any info about the miners until it was confirmed, it would be damn hard not to let out a shout of joy if you thought you heard "12 alive!" One person interviewed said that it wasn't someone from the mine company but a Red Cross worker who came to the church with the false report of 12 alive. Either way, I get how the first, wrong report got so quickly spread.
What I don't get is how this mine was still operating when 17 or 18 (again, conflicting reports) of its most recent safety citations were severe enough to warrant a shut-down. I have to ask if all the violations they were cited for had been corrected before this tragic accident. If the company has skirted the law in any way or if the gov't officials have turned a blind eye to the need to correct the unsafe conditions, then I'd say heads should roll.
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nellie
this whole thing still has me really bugged...
i can't understand why a mine with violations allowed workers to go down under
how many lumps of coal is a soul worth?
those families lost their loved ones twice - it's sad beyond belief
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dmiller
Nellie -- from what I have heard (emphasis on heard), the company that now owns the mine just aquired aquisition of it this last November. They were aware of *deficiencies*, and moved to correct them as best they could.
They (according to what I heard), were working on alleviating all, but this happened before they (obviously) did not correct all.
Regardless --- it is still tragedy.
I agree with Linda on this one.
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Linda Z
I did hear a couple of miners from the Sago mine interviewed who said that since the new compnay took over, great strides had been made in improving the conditions and safety.
Miners know they're in a dangerous occupation. Several family members have said their father/husband, etc., said he always knew he'd die in a mine. That doesn't make it any less heartbreaking when it happens, though.
I have a cousin who was a coal miner. She had to leave the mines when her breathing became so bad that she couldn't continue. There are so many health risks, in addition to the safety risks of cave-ins and explosions and such. My great-grandfather was a coal miner, first in Pennsylvania and later in Illinois. He was almost blind when he died, which was a common consequence of mining in the 19th and early 20th century.
I have a hunch that no matter what measures the mining companies take to make it safer, it's never going to be as safe as sitting at a computer all day or selling ties at Macy's. But I heard that 50% of our energy in this country depends on burning coal. Seems to me we ought to be putting more effort into finding alternative energy sources that don't require coal, for this and several other obvious reasons.
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krys
Coal is much to valuable a resource to just leave it in the ground. There are much cleaner ways to use it now than what once was. Mines need to be much safer and maybe more mechanization might help. They use robots in the auto industry, maybe they should look into using them here too.
The miners families and communities have my prayers also.
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HAPe4me
Of course, closing the mine until its conditions improved would have meant unemployed miners. tough call.
Have they determined the cause of the accident?
Have they determined whether any of the deficiencies on the safety inspection reports would have prevented the accident or the deaths?
~HAP
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markomalley
As somebody who has spent time in a coal mine (Eastern KY vs W. Va), I can tell you that it is an inherently dangerous occupation. Keeping good air flow through the mine is critical, not only to protect from carbon monoxide, but also to keep explosive gasses under control, as well. They have vent shafts drilled in the mountain and constantly are working to keep the air moving in a mine.
The most dangerous time in a mine is for several minutes after they blast a shelf of coal loose. A huge amount of coal dust is suspended in the air as the result of the blast. This suspended dust is explosive in of itself (ever heard of a grain elevator exploding -- it's the same phenomenon -- a single spark of electricity can cause the suspended dust to ignite). Coupled with the fact that methane gas is often present with coal, it can be a very, very hazardous situation. There are detectors that are present to detect excessive levels of methane and if the levels rise to a certain level, additional ventilation is put in place. If they continue to rise, the mine is evacuated until such time as they can get the levels under control. There are also detectors for carbon monoxide gas, as well. Same thing happens.
Having said that, the most dangerous time is right after a blast...because there is literally NOTHING that can be done until the dust is cleared out of the air. A remarkably small spark (a nail in a boot hitting another piece of metal, disconnecting the electrical wires from the detonator, a short in the wires that lead to the fuze, anything) can cause a HUGE explosion. If something like this happens, a portion of the ceiling could cave in, which would interrupt the air flow through the mine. Then, the hazardous gasses could build up...and those hazardous gasses could build up.
There are normally a minimum of two shafts sunk for any mine. This allows for that air flow through the mine.
But, as has been pointed out, it is a very, very hazardous job and some of the hazards are inherent to the job. Really the only way to make it at all safe is to evacuate the mine completely when they do a blast. That would reduce the efficiency of the mine to practically a standstill. They normally do at least one to two blasts per shift. Depending upon the size of the mine. If they had to evacuate the crew from the mine every time they did a blast, it would cut at least 50% of the efficiency from a mine.
That experience: my uncle owned a mine for a few years. I spent a summer with him earning money while I was in high school. My parents could have killed him when they found out what he had me doing to earn the money.
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markomalley
By the way, there is another alternative: strip mining. But I don't know too many folks that like that option...
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Linda Z
It's funny you mention strip mining, Mark, because I've been thinking about that for a couple days. IF the mining companies could restore the land after strip mining, rather than leaving those big, ugly gashes in it, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea. Problem is, coal mining is the only good-paying job in a lot of these rural areas, so lots of people would lose their jobs if companies were permitted to switch to strip mining.
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markomalley
Trouble is, they can't restore the land. Not just that they don't want to...they can't. Coal is located in veins that lie between rock strata...when they strip mine, they destroy the rock strata above the coal vein. No matter what kind of cosmetic work they do, the geology of the area is permanently destroyed. I've you've ever driven on a highway that goes through cut in a mountain, you can visibly see that...the different layers of rock...
What happens with a restoration, they put down a layer of sealing clay to prevent seepage into any ground water that may lie below the gash. They then pile layers of rubble that were removed. They then cover it with topsoil and plant above it. While it may look somewhat attractive, it isn't the same as what was there before. The environment is permanently destroyed...no matter how it looks...
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Linda Z
Mark, that's what I was afraid of. Well, hopefully they'll get better at mine safety then, eh?
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dmiller
Good point, Linda.
Some of my relatives on my Dad's side of the family (who live in the DuQuoin/ Carbondale area of southern Illinois) have a cabin on a lake there, that used to be a strip pit. My uncle worked for one of the mining companies there, and he bought the land around one of those abandoned pits, and took an old foreman's cabin they were going to tear down, and moved it to his property.
The place was a *scar* on the landscape, but as the pit started to fill with water, trees grew on the hills, and bit by bit it *filled out*. It was pretty ugly for many years, but nature took it's course, and it is now quite beautiful there with all the trees, waterways, etc.
Granted it took 20 (or so years) for this to occur, but happen it did -- no thanks to the mining company that left it for *blacker* fields. :)
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markomalley
Strip mining is an ugly, ugly business. I have seen whole mountains brought down in order to get a rich vein of coal. It has destroyed thousands of acres of some of the most beautiful land in the country.
Of course, David, you should be as familiar with any of us with strip mining living up there in Northern MN...you have the Iron pits out there in the range...
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dmiller
Yep that I am, and yes there are. :(
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