I Have To Ask...

[Outin88.]

Actually, since I am speaking out more forcefully here out of sheer frustration, I can honestly say I expect it from current TWI members. If they say anything to me, I can just tell them to Shut UP and move on. Nothing I can do for them.

What bothered me were the others that left TWI and joined other groups hanging to Wierwille's every word from the past. And even then, there were the Geerites who won't accept criticism of him either. I have to wonder if anyone should even bother joining a splinter group like CFF, CES, or Vince Finnegan's group or any other group and just go back to church as we did. Ignoring these groups seems to me to help to avoid these kinds of people who just CANNOT BE CIVIL OR KIND with someone not involved with their group.

Have to say the more I think about it the angrier I get. You can bet that the ones who cut off from me over this will surely get their wish and never hear from me again. My God, a lot of these people cannot handle a simple diversion from the Blue Book no matter how accurate the information portrayed from the Bible against some of it is.

I can handle those that disagree with me here...no problem here. They just disagree and we move on to the next topic and talk about that. I don't mind disagreement. I mind being treated as a "heathen", that's what I mind.

Well, now every one knows how upset I am over this. Sorry if I sound over the edge.

Eagle

I hear ya Eagle, I've run into that myself.

But It's not all offshoots that act this way, at least from my experience. LMCI (Dale Sides) started out praising Wierwille in 94, but by 96 was talking about how many if not most of Wierwille's doctrines and practices were wrong. He now teaches almost everything different then Wierwille/TWI.

CES started out talking about Wierwille's wrong doctrines sexcapades etc. Which helped me break free of idolizing him. And motivated me to study on my own to see if these things were so. But maybe they have changed since my involvement, I really don't know and at this point, I really don't care.

But I was involved in two groups that did and maybe still highly esteem Wierwille, CFF and Geers group. And it's quite possible they have changed since my involvement. I don't know about the other offshoots.

I did know of some hardcore Wierwillites that were involved with CFF and Geer associated groups in years past. However, reading Catcups post makes me think CFF may have changed. At least it sounds like Catcups fellowship has grown past hanging on all of Wierwille's doctrines, and I applaud them for this. Hopefully all of CFF has stopped teaching his erroneous doctrines and idolizing him as the MOG.

I agree with you Eagle, that church is better then the offshoots, at least for me it is. But those who are still "waybrained" may benefit from some of the offshoots that will teach differently then Wierwille/TWI, yet still have a sense of familiarity to many of his doctrines. It helped me, I like to refer to it as a halfway house to "de-waybrain".

But It's sad that some Christians can get so arogant and prideful towards their group. As Rascal said it's silly. So hang in there Eagle, many of us have been and are still dealing with these type of arogant and prideful people, someday maybe they will grow up in Christ and act in a more loving manner.

Edited January 6, 2006 by Outin88.

[Eagle]

Good Advice '88. That does help ease my frustration a lot. To know that CFF is slowly getting away from the absolutism of VPW and strike out on their own with just God and the Word sounds pretty good. I just can't take it anymore, no, not what they teach, but how they treat others with different opinions on Wierwille's teachings.

I have not checked Dale Sides so he wasn't included as a group I was frustrated with.

I think as time goes on, some groups will drop a lot of Wierwillisms and be themselves. Some won't. I think CES has been Wierwille-free since its beginning. I don't know why I put them on the list. I did have some problems with a few of their people but JAL and MG and JS were okay.

The Geerites were almost impossible. I didn't hang around those groups.

Eagle

[Catcup]

I did know of some hardcore Wierwillites that were involved with CFF and Geer associated groups in years past. However, reading Catcups post makes me think CFF may have changed. At least it sounds like Catcups fellowship has grown past hanging on all of Wierwille's doctrines, and I applaud them for this. Hopefully all of CFF has stopped teaching his erroneous doctrines and idolizing him as the MOG.

Your mileage may vary from fellowship to fellowship within CFF. CFF doesn't "monitor" and control the teachings in every home fellowship associated with them like TWI did, and there are people who affiliate with CFF who come from different backgrounds and points of view.

I do take it as a good sign that CFF is aware of my opinions yet still regularly invites my husband to teach at their services. Plus, they've never tried to muzzle me.

But then again, can you imagine what would happen to anyone who tried to?

[Outin88.]

I do take it as a good sign that CFF is aware of my opinions yet still regularly invites my husband to teach at their services. Plus, they've never tried to muzzle me.

But then again, can you imagine what would happen to anyone who tried to?

I take that as a good sign too. CFF is fortunate to have you and your hubby.

[waterbuffalo]

I want to see it from the word, never use VPW's statments to prove your teaching, prove it from the word. Its amazing how many people were upset by that.

Keith, you're with, or referring to, a geerite group, right? Why, then, is it amazing that people would be upset by asking them not to use vp as their source? (not a criticism, just wondered.)

Edited January 6, 2006 by waterbuffalo

[dmiller]

I think as time goes on, some groups will drop a lot of Wierwillisms and be themselves. Some won't. I think CES has been Wierwille-free since its beginning. I don't know why I put them on the list.

That's been my experience with them as well. From what I remember of when CES first started, the focus was on *research and teaching*. Docvic and his sayings were considered water under the bridge.

[NOG]

Has anyone had the experience, even recently, of being ignored, cast out, or put down because they may disagree with a few of Wierwille's doctrines?

Eagle

:(

I was known to have cited "VPW" was wrong in some specific actions. (he acknowleged that)

Kangaroo court is the therapy for that offence, administered at (from) the higest levels.

[dmiller]

Hey there NOG. Welcome to GreaseSpot!

[coolchef1248 @adelphia.net]

welcome nog does anyone know if there any of these offshoots in maine?

[Keith]

Keith, you're with, or referring to, a geerite group, right? Why, then, is it amazing that people would be upset by asking them not to use vp as their source? (not a criticism, just wondered.)

At the time I'm not sure that they would have concidered themselves geerites, I certainly would not concider myself a geerite. But no, I wasn't really surprised at the reaction, just disheartened. Many of them are now taking a hard look at what they've been taught and begining to come around. It's been a long hard battle. As for the group I currently oversee, while we have some association with Geer, we also have some association with CFF, and I think most of us now have more in common with Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin and Joyce Meyer (who we also partner with) than we do with our TWI roots.

[Sunnyfla]

At the time I'm not sure that they would have concidered themselves geerites, I certainly would not concider myself a geerite. But no, I wasn't really surprised at the reaction, just disheartened. Many of them are now taking a hard look at what they've been taught and begining to come around. It's been a long hard battle. As for the group I currently oversee, while we have some association with Geer, we also have some association with CFF, and I think most of us now have more in common with Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin and Joyce Meyer (who we also partner with) than we do with our TWI roots.

Hi Keith Just wondering.. Were you in the 21st Corps?

Edited January 18, 2006 by Sunnyfla

[Lifted Up]

Has anyone had the experience, even recently, of being ignored, cast out, or put down because they may disagree with a few of Wierwille's doctrines?

I may have had such experiences, the ignored part at least, from both sides of the fence...on the agree and disagree side. I say may because I cannot honestly say I know their real motives.

[whatsagirltodo]

I lost what I thought were friends, but what hurt the most was losing my sister, her husband and their children. That was in 2000 and she still won't talk to me. I was marked and avoided for questioning my leadership. I have moved on and I always keep my door open. Like sending christmas cards and such.

My life is wonderful and free now. I can't let them hold me down. If that's how they want to be then so be it. I think God will work out what's best in his good time. Don't get me wrong it took me a very long time to get to this peaceful point in my life. I went at least a year of crying everyday. Somtimes I had to pull over on the side of the road when I was driving because I was crying so hard. I even had to go on meds to help me deal with my loss.

I also made sure I sought out spiritual healing from normal and loving people and they taught me how to forgive.

[Keith]

Hi Keith Just wondering.. Were you in the 21st Corps?

Never was in the Corps. In fact, never had the advanced class. I left the ministry the first time in 1977. Actually ran from God. TWI had hurt me pretty bad, (at least by 1977 standards.) My now wife, was Church of Christ, when we met, she would wouldn't let me keep running. I still held a lot of my TWI belieif. over our dating time in late 80's she came over to my views, for the most part. We were even pulled in by her church elders to be talk with. Not knowing any place else to go, I went back to TWI and was so disgusted by what I saw, I begain looking for those who had left. I got most of my current understanding by working the bible for myself, not even using the TWI books, except for the Bullinger ones, and listening to Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth Hagin.

To this day, I really don't understand how I ended up in a leadership position with a bunch of ex-wayfer. I do thank God for one aspect of it though. I am glad that I left the first time in 1977. I have a feeling that if I had stayed, I would have be one of those who are still there. I really think God protected me there.

[dmiller]

To this day, I really don't understand how I ended up in a leadership position with a bunch of ex-wayfer. I do thank God for one aspect of it though. I am glad that I left the first time in 1977. I have a feeling that if I had stayed, I would have be one of those who are still there. I really think God protected me there.

Hi there Keith. :)

Hey -- since you're in Bloomington, do you ever run into the CES crowd at all?

Or do you stay away from them?

Just curious.

David

[Keith]

Hi there Keith. :)

Hey -- since you're in Bloomington, do you ever run into the CES crowd at all?

Or do you stay away from them?

Just curious.

David

I meet people from CFF quite a bit, but not from CES. I run in to a few, and some have e-mailed me. I welcome the chance to talk with anyone.