"It's still available to enjoy God's Word being taught, I still love learning about the Bible"
It's always been available, with or without TWI to learn about the Bible. In fact, I would say in many respects TWI hindered my growth and love of learning.
"the Greatest ministry is THE WORD and the healing power of Loving others! He said; "people need confidence in God and his Word, NOT A MAN, The Word-The Word"!"
How about confidence in GOD, instead of worshiping a book?
"all through the years he's never asked 1 man or 1 woman specifically, to give anything to this ministry"
No, he demanded that ALL wayfers, male and female, give to the ministry, not just one.
"thanks God he doesn't have members in the Way ministry. We just plant and water and hold forth the Word. Those who hire can fire- But in the Way ministry you can't join anything, so nobody can throw you out. Stay as long as you like"
Wonderful example of how what was taught was NOT what was practiced.
Freeindeed: Welcome to GSC. I still have some SNS tapes, but maybe once a year I'll listen to the tapes from Living Victoriously. Yeah, it's good stuff all right. Unfortunately, many here literally HATE VPW. It's always the same process: they start by listing his "sins", then from there they attack his credibility, then they speculate every possible way he was "evil". Trying to get most people here to like VPW is like trying to get a black man in a small southern town elected mayor 100 yrs ago.
I know what your saying morgan...alot of what was taught WASN'T practiced. I was suprised myself to hear VP say some of those things, because I couldn't even take the advanced class without Tithing for a specific amount of time. I often felt info. was hid from me, because I wasn't corps etc...I was just a peon who wasn't priveleged enough to learn certain secret things. I always felt I had to be a twi slave to be considered worth anything to the organization...and it sure seemed like there was a membership, and they did "kick people out". The "holier than thou" leaders, only looked to find fault, and you had to walk on egg shells around them...watch everything you say and such cause it'd be taken the wrong way. I'M OK-with not being a part of twi anymore, but I still enjoy biblical research, and there is still alot of hurt, empty people out there who need to hear God's word.
How's about Biblical research outside of the TWI-ordained literature? ;)
I don't know how long you've been out, but I would recommend putting aside everything TWI for a bit and reading from others who were never involved with TWI. It would give you a greater perspective and perhaps a greater relationship with GOD instead of your Bible. :)
I've been reading about the Nag Hammadi scrolls, Elaine Pagels, for example. I'm looking into getting the book about Misquoting Jesus, which I asked about on here.
Others are more experienced and have awesome foundations in the non-TWI stuff they've read since leaving. I'm learning a great deal from them. The Doctrinal Section on here is a great place to read and learn as well as to learn what some of the sources are that helped others. I've only been out just over a year, so I've a long way to go, but getting my focus off TWI-related material has been a huge help.
One thing (there may be more) I've learned from God, prayer, a dear sweet friend...is just how arogant many of us became.
If you didn't hear it in a teaching tape, at a twig fellowship or the ROA...it couldn't be God's Word...how sure can you be?
I listen now...I talk to God soooo much more than I used to...the fellowship that we (God & I) continue to build leaves me wanting more...that's good I think.
I have one tape left..The Red Thread...it's always been a favorite, classic if you will...I'd love to get it on a CD though...just don't know how many more times it will play? I have a transcript of it and a little summary too...it is God's Word I love, not the man or women who speaks it...although I love and appreciate and am soooo thankful for men & women that stand, it is God and His Word...that's pretty much it.
While I have the pulpit, I just want to thank so many of the GSpotters that have shared their hearts and lives with me....the healing has been imeasurable (is that spelled right?)...anyway, ya' can't measure it.
And if you'd REALLY like to do some research, and not just shore up notions that you've already accepted, maybe spend some time reading something other than Bible-related dogma.
I'd suggest A DEMON-HAUNTED WORLD by Carl Sagan for starters. Some great insights, put forth in very understandable terms...
Medic I'd be happy to make you a CD or MP3 of the Red Thread. It would be my pleasure a very small token of thanks for all you do for us back here. Send me a PM or email with yur address and I'll get it in the mail.
I still have 'hundreds of tapes' that I need to find a cheap way of getting onto cd.
I remember one time (at Emporia) where VPW was shocked to find the almost impossible work and study schedule the leadership there had placed everyone on..he basically 'blew up' in their faces, ha ha.
We used to have hundreds of tapes, too, but the littel sumbytch who was our last bc made us get rid of them as old wine that was holding us back. Some of them were from the early 1970's. Then the little jerk M&Ad us anyway.
It's nice to know I'm not alone. Before I took PFAL, I tried to off myself-thinking inside to God, shouting inside; "if I go to hell for killing myself after searching for you all my life, I don't want your f;n heaven anyway". Two weeks later I was witnessed to in a bar, I was playing pool and the lovely gal bringing my beer had recently taken the class herself. Laura Fitzhugh Dahn if your out there, I love you and thank you. No regrets.
I had spent much of my life up until that time trying to find God in Religion. I saw the slain ones, was the only white in an all blk Pentecostal, read the circulars, was told by an old catholic lady I shouldn't take the communion yadda, yadda. I read all the self help books I couldn find, but I didn't find answers I saught. I am not proud of what the twi has become, but I cannot deny, that it changed my life for the better. I feel satisfied in knowing what I know, and I want to know more. I also can't hide from the fact that there are people still out there today, who feel like I did back in 1984.
I am glad that there still are twi related tapes out there. Not everyone in the way, had sexual improprieties. Alot of Good men and women, put their hearts into researching the word. I only met VP once in my life, I mostly know of him by hearing YEARS worth of him pouring his heart out to people. Some of you out there know him personally. I only know the word he taught, and the same word he taught others to teach. I spent the last 14 years not looking at any material twi put out! I had my time away, and got out at a good time...but the WORD is still with me and I have been unknowingly sharing it with others all these years. Gods best to you ALL now, in 06, and forever.
I know where there are about 600 or so (plus a bunch of books and classes including pifle) .... for free!
All you got to do is get to Greece, go to the island of Thasos, make your way to the town dump just outside of Limenas, and start digging! Since its been 8 years or so I would think it won't take that long till you find what you're looking for. It only took me two trips to get rid of it all!
Want to be really blessed? Seek God... just try it....no really,... just really, really, really, try it.
Its amazing that I open up this thread and read what I am reading here from you. I just had two completely seperate conversations this week with both ex twi families about keeping TWI materials and what the use of such materials are to myself and family.
When I left TWI I also left God for awhile in a manner of speaking. I boxed up everything we owned from TWI. We had everything in at least duplicate and some things in triplicate. A copy for me, a copy for my husband and a copy for our twig latter fellowship.
For years I had boxes of cassette tapes and video tapes boxed up and then started to throw them out. Then one day I opened up a REO Speedwagon case and in there was a TWI tape. I listened and was blessed, truly blessed. It was about FORGIVENESS. At this time I had already found WAYDALE a site we posted and chatted at before GreaseSpotCafe was available to us. The people were diferent back then but some of them are still here from that time who helped me tremendously. Some I just stay in touch with on the sidelines.
but
If we know we are prone to a certain problem and can admit to that problem not only in our words by lip service but really get it right before God ............ I believe we can concur all. We can decipher between that which is good and that which is bad and God has given us the ability to do that ......... for those who hunger and thirst after righteousnous shall be filled ... Gods word never comes back void .......... Its us as human beings who do with it what we will.
I believe that you will know what tapes to toss for you and what tapes to keep. I have tossed many but there are definately some that I have kept. I have kept all my books and syllabi ......... some things I look at some things I don't ..........
I know I had to learn how to pray all over again ......... not the vein repittition of thanking God for things we want before we received them, tempting him to make our prayers come true wether or not we knew what was available and setting us up for a downfall as if our believing wasn't big enough because we didn't receive our prayer ......... JC said Give me this day our daily bread ......... he claimed what was available ....... the people in Egypt cried out and the Lord heard there Cry ......... They did not beg in thanks ..... Not to say I don't thank God ....... I do thank him ........ but I don't thank him to give me what I want before I have received it as if tempting God to give it me anylonger ............ I simply ask him and he gives as he desires and has given me many of the desires of my heart ......... and I do thank him for that.
You will know for yourself in your own heart the right time for all things ........ and he will put on your heart what you need to do and undo in your own life. For each of us these things are different.
God Bless .................. TWI isn't God they were just a tool that went very astray. God is still available and if you seek you will find.
there are also lots of good stuff that is being done by men who walk with the Lord today.
Walter Cummins maintains his integrity. Also Wayne Clapp, Milford Bowen Dale Sides and the people associated with their ministries to name only a few who maintain integrity before the Lord.
And when you study those things that are written and spoken by men and women who have maintained their integrity, you also get the seeds of strength from their lives and the gems that glisten with light from Holy Spirit alive in them today.
Billy Graham, Norman Vincent Peale, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyers -- In addition to the wonderful ones we know who left twi and maintained their integrity -- so many men and women who have lived with integrity before the Lord. So many men and women with whom we can be proud to associate with and learn from.
Always remembering that the nobility of the Bereans was found because they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so.
There is no shortcut to searching the scriptures daily and testing by the scriptures those things which are seen and heard.
I got rid of all twi stuff just because of the dirt that goes along with all things twi. And twi stuff was just about the sum of my life in 1995.
But twi made a "complete mess" of my life and getting rid of it all gave me space to start fresh and allow the Holy Spirit to make me completely whole as I have longed for all these years.
One way to get some use out of the old tapes is to compile some of the music on them-there were a lot of performances that never made it onto any albums. Remember when the SNS were on reel to reel? Oh brother, now I'm really dating myself! Anyway, one I recall was a song Stevie Kay did. I wish I could remember all the words, but this is the best I could come up with. Her intro was her being a new mother, and thinking about what Mary thought as mother about her son.
I remember your eyes that shined.
I remember when you put your hand in mine.
I remember your face, so bright, so full of life.
I remember when you were so small.
I remember that you never cried at all.
And your voice so soft, so clear
That every word you say would hang on my ears.
I remember when they came and took you away
I remember that they took my life, that day
They hung you high upon a tree
So everyone would come and see
That this man some called their King would die
Like a begger in suffering.
Yet on your face was no sign of pain
For the Price of peace had died so life could reign
And I loved you for the things you've done,
But most of all, most of all
because you were my son.
Remembering some of the old music got me through some bad moments after I left.
Mary I was afraid it was after I was long gone as I did not recognize the name or song. I don't have any tapes from then but I'll do some digging around. Anyone else ?
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Morgan
"It's still available to enjoy God's Word being taught, I still love learning about the Bible"
It's always been available, with or without TWI to learn about the Bible. In fact, I would say in many respects TWI hindered my growth and love of learning.
"the Greatest ministry is THE WORD and the healing power of Loving others! He said; "people need confidence in God and his Word, NOT A MAN, The Word-The Word"!"
How about confidence in GOD, instead of worshiping a book?
"all through the years he's never asked 1 man or 1 woman specifically, to give anything to this ministry"
No, he demanded that ALL wayfers, male and female, give to the ministry, not just one.
"thanks God he doesn't have members in the Way ministry. We just plant and water and hold forth the Word. Those who hire can fire- But in the Way ministry you can't join anything, so nobody can throw you out. Stay as long as you like"
Wonderful example of how what was taught was NOT what was practiced.
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johniam
Freeindeed: Welcome to GSC. I still have some SNS tapes, but maybe once a year I'll listen to the tapes from Living Victoriously. Yeah, it's good stuff all right. Unfortunately, many here literally HATE VPW. It's always the same process: they start by listing his "sins", then from there they attack his credibility, then they speculate every possible way he was "evil". Trying to get most people here to like VPW is like trying to get a black man in a small southern town elected mayor 100 yrs ago.
I agree; the word still heals.
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freeindeed
I know what your saying morgan...alot of what was taught WASN'T practiced. I was suprised myself to hear VP say some of those things, because I couldn't even take the advanced class without Tithing for a specific amount of time. I often felt info. was hid from me, because I wasn't corps etc...I was just a peon who wasn't priveleged enough to learn certain secret things. I always felt I had to be a twi slave to be considered worth anything to the organization...and it sure seemed like there was a membership, and they did "kick people out". The "holier than thou" leaders, only looked to find fault, and you had to walk on egg shells around them...watch everything you say and such cause it'd be taken the wrong way. I'M OK-with not being a part of twi anymore, but I still enjoy biblical research, and there is still alot of hurt, empty people out there who need to hear God's word.
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Belle
How's about Biblical research outside of the TWI-ordained literature? ;)
I don't know how long you've been out, but I would recommend putting aside everything TWI for a bit and reading from others who were never involved with TWI. It would give you a greater perspective and perhaps a greater relationship with GOD instead of your Bible. :)
I've been reading about the Nag Hammadi scrolls, Elaine Pagels, for example. I'm looking into getting the book about Misquoting Jesus, which I asked about on here.
Others are more experienced and have awesome foundations in the non-TWI stuff they've read since leaving. I'm learning a great deal from them. The Doctrinal Section on here is a great place to read and learn as well as to learn what some of the sources are that helped others. I've only been out just over a year, so I've a long way to go, but getting my focus off TWI-related material has been a huge help.
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oilfieldmedic
Yes we are...Free Indeed.
One thing (there may be more) I've learned from God, prayer, a dear sweet friend...is just how arogant many of us became.
If you didn't hear it in a teaching tape, at a twig fellowship or the ROA...it couldn't be God's Word...how sure can you be?
I listen now...I talk to God soooo much more than I used to...the fellowship that we (God & I) continue to build leaves me wanting more...that's good I think.
I have one tape left..The Red Thread...it's always been a favorite, classic if you will...I'd love to get it on a CD though...just don't know how many more times it will play? I have a transcript of it and a little summary too...it is God's Word I love, not the man or women who speaks it...although I love and appreciate and am soooo thankful for men & women that stand, it is God and His Word...that's pretty much it.
While I have the pulpit, I just want to thank so many of the GSpotters that have shared their hearts and lives with me....the healing has been imeasurable (is that spelled right?)...anyway, ya' can't measure it.
Thanks for the post
John...aka Smokey...aka oilfieldmedic
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George Aar
And if you'd REALLY like to do some research, and not just shore up notions that you've already accepted, maybe spend some time reading something other than Bible-related dogma.
I'd suggest A DEMON-HAUNTED WORLD by Carl Sagan for starters. Some great insights, put forth in very understandable terms...
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WhiteDove
Medic I'd be happy to make you a CD or MP3 of the Red Thread. It would be my pleasure a very small token of thanks for all you do for us back here. Send me a PM or email with yur address and I'll get it in the mail.
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Allan
I still have 'hundreds of tapes' that I need to find a cheap way of getting onto cd.
I remember one time (at Emporia) where VPW was shocked to find the almost impossible work and study schedule the leadership there had placed everyone on..he basically 'blew up' in their faces, ha ha.
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Watered Garden
We used to have hundreds of tapes, too, but the littel sumbytch who was our last bc made us get rid of them as old wine that was holding us back. Some of them were from the early 1970's. Then the little jerk M&Ad us anyway.
WG
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freeindeed
Thanks, for your posts,
It's nice to know I'm not alone. Before I took PFAL, I tried to off myself-thinking inside to God, shouting inside; "if I go to hell for killing myself after searching for you all my life, I don't want your f;n heaven anyway". Two weeks later I was witnessed to in a bar, I was playing pool and the lovely gal bringing my beer had recently taken the class herself. Laura Fitzhugh Dahn if your out there, I love you and thank you. No regrets.
I had spent much of my life up until that time trying to find God in Religion. I saw the slain ones, was the only white in an all blk Pentecostal, read the circulars, was told by an old catholic lady I shouldn't take the communion yadda, yadda. I read all the self help books I couldn find, but I didn't find answers I saught. I am not proud of what the twi has become, but I cannot deny, that it changed my life for the better. I feel satisfied in knowing what I know, and I want to know more. I also can't hide from the fact that there are people still out there today, who feel like I did back in 1984.
I am glad that there still are twi related tapes out there. Not everyone in the way, had sexual improprieties. Alot of Good men and women, put their hearts into researching the word. I only met VP once in my life, I mostly know of him by hearing YEARS worth of him pouring his heart out to people. Some of you out there know him personally. I only know the word he taught, and the same word he taught others to teach. I spent the last 14 years not looking at any material twi put out! I had my time away, and got out at a good time...but the WORD is still with me and I have been unknowingly sharing it with others all these years. Gods best to you ALL now, in 06, and forever.
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dmiller
Hiya Free.
Hey -- you said
When was this??? Just curious, cause I've not heard that one before.
I had to take all the *seminars* in order to get to AC *eligibility*.
But I didn't know of (or hear about) the tithing time limit, or whatever.
David
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likeaneagle
dmiller-my friend who had cancer could not take advance class unless her husband paid off 10,000 in debt.pretty sick.
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dmiller
Holy s***. I had no idea. :(
The love-of-God-in-manifestation.
Right. :( :( :(
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likeaneagle
wrong. Not the love I understand.
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Ron G.
I have to admit I still enjoy and get a lot of good out of some old teachings from V*nce F*nn*g*n, Ralph D and a few others.
That's just me and, of course, your mileage may vary.
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Greek2me
TWI teaching tapes?
I know where there are about 600 or so (plus a bunch of books and classes including pifle) .... for free!
All you got to do is get to Greece, go to the island of Thasos, make your way to the town dump just outside of Limenas, and start digging! Since its been 8 years or so I would think it won't take that long till you find what you're looking for. It only took me two trips to get rid of it all!
Want to be really blessed? Seek God... just try it....no really,... just really, really, really, try it.
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Digitalis
Freeindeed,
Its amazing that I open up this thread and read what I am reading here from you. I just had two completely seperate conversations this week with both ex twi families about keeping TWI materials and what the use of such materials are to myself and family.
When I left TWI I also left God for awhile in a manner of speaking. I boxed up everything we owned from TWI. We had everything in at least duplicate and some things in triplicate. A copy for me, a copy for my husband and a copy for our twig latter fellowship.
For years I had boxes of cassette tapes and video tapes boxed up and then started to throw them out. Then one day I opened up a REO Speedwagon case and in there was a TWI tape. I listened and was blessed, truly blessed. It was about FORGIVENESS. At this time I had already found WAYDALE a site we posted and chatted at before GreaseSpotCafe was available to us. The people were diferent back then but some of them are still here from that time who helped me tremendously. Some I just stay in touch with on the sidelines.
but
If we know we are prone to a certain problem and can admit to that problem not only in our words by lip service but really get it right before God ............ I believe we can concur all. We can decipher between that which is good and that which is bad and God has given us the ability to do that ......... for those who hunger and thirst after righteousnous shall be filled ... Gods word never comes back void .......... Its us as human beings who do with it what we will.
I believe that you will know what tapes to toss for you and what tapes to keep. I have tossed many but there are definately some that I have kept. I have kept all my books and syllabi ......... some things I look at some things I don't ..........
I know I had to learn how to pray all over again ......... not the vein repittition of thanking God for things we want before we received them, tempting him to make our prayers come true wether or not we knew what was available and setting us up for a downfall as if our believing wasn't big enough because we didn't receive our prayer ......... JC said Give me this day our daily bread ......... he claimed what was available ....... the people in Egypt cried out and the Lord heard there Cry ......... They did not beg in thanks ..... Not to say I don't thank God ....... I do thank him ........ but I don't thank him to give me what I want before I have received it as if tempting God to give it me anylonger ............ I simply ask him and he gives as he desires and has given me many of the desires of my heart ......... and I do thank him for that.
You will know for yourself in your own heart the right time for all things ........ and he will put on your heart what you need to do and undo in your own life. For each of us these things are different.
God Bless .................. TWI isn't God they were just a tool that went very astray. God is still available and if you seek you will find.
Digi
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Kit Sober
there are also lots of good stuff that is being done by men who walk with the Lord today.
Walter Cummins maintains his integrity. Also Wayne Clapp, Milford Bowen Dale Sides and the people associated with their ministries to name only a few who maintain integrity before the Lord.
And when you study those things that are written and spoken by men and women who have maintained their integrity, you also get the seeds of strength from their lives and the gems that glisten with light from Holy Spirit alive in them today.
Billy Graham, Norman Vincent Peale, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyers -- In addition to the wonderful ones we know who left twi and maintained their integrity -- so many men and women who have lived with integrity before the Lord. So many men and women with whom we can be proud to associate with and learn from.
Always remembering that the nobility of the Bereans was found because they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so.
There is no shortcut to searching the scriptures daily and testing by the scriptures those things which are seen and heard.
I got rid of all twi stuff just because of the dirt that goes along with all things twi. And twi stuff was just about the sum of my life in 1995.
But twi made a "complete mess" of my life and getting rid of it all gave me space to start fresh and allow the Holy Spirit to make me completely whole as I have longed for all these years.
Hopefully,
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moony3424
I listen to Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, and Creflo Dollar.
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topoftheworld
One way to get some use out of the old tapes is to compile some of the music on them-there were a lot of performances that never made it onto any albums. Remember when the SNS were on reel to reel? Oh brother, now I'm really dating myself! Anyway, one I recall was a song Stevie Kay did. I wish I could remember all the words, but this is the best I could come up with. Her intro was her being a new mother, and thinking about what Mary thought as mother about her son.
Remembering some of the old music got me through some bad moments after I left.
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marypoppins
FREEINDEED
You have a beautiful heart, it's great to read that you still reverence God in your heart, and still
have fun researching, and holding forth the integrity of God's Word.
Yes not all what we were taught was right, but i have good memorys to... i met some wonderful people
and still have contact with many of them, they like myself loved God and wanted to hold forth the Word
to others that were searching. It sadened me to hear about the advance class and titheing.
Your posts brought tears to my eyes, its the Word that heals, and when spoken on believing lips
it really brings deliverence. i personnally have kept a lot of twi materials, tapes, books, syllabuses. and
use them from time to time.
DIGI your post was beautiful and sums up what a Heart for GOD can achieve.
SEEK AND U WILL SURELY FIND.
I have been looking and searching for a song i loved so much by Mike Martins, was on sns tapes
WRAP YOUR LIFE UP IN GOD............ if any one knows of this song or has a spare copy i would love
to hear from you
God Bless and Happy New Year to you all
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WhiteDove
Mary could you narrow it down to a year or so that would maybe help someone find it a little quicker.
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marypoppins
Hi Whitedove
I think the year was about 94 may even be 93 would be real great if u find it
Thanks for taking the trouble to look for me i really do appreciate it
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WhiteDove
Mary I was afraid it was after I was long gone as I did not recognize the name or song. I don't have any tapes from then but I'll do some digging around. Anyone else ?
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