how can you not believe..

[CM]

Sudo-

How can you believe

cuz i've seen it

And George i'm in no way implying that anyone is ignorant.

Some things cannot be ignored in my opinion.

if the heart is bound, then unbind it

it has endless possibilities

o yeah, Merry Chistmas to all

and open the eye of the eagle

as the Lord directs your hearts into his Love

[excathedra]

haven't read geo's post yet

but sudo

like an adult talks to a child who still believes in Santa Claus. He KNOWS that he knows something the child doesn't know... that there is no Santa Claus but he pretends to believe to make the fellowship between them sweet.

you're a ********** just for saying that

did you just talk about being condescending and maybe staying off here

shouldn't have even posted, really. You guys like to believe and that's just fine with me.

i like you a lot better when you just post your stupid christmas tree or house

if you shouldn't have posted why did you ? were you going out of your way to make me sad ?

.

But, being as it is the holiday season, and one that some people actually enjoy, I guess I'll be nice and not say what I really think.

you already did ************

goodnight

i'm having a hard christmas

everyone sucks

Edited December 26, 2005 by GreasyTech

[sirguessalot]

hell hath no fury...they say...damn

of course, even the Kid said it was ok to try and save an foot from a hole on a holiday...

:blink:

In short.. I LOVE Christmas and wish you all the very best. You see.. I hold no animosity towards those who believe. My Christmas wishes are for everyone to have a merry Christmas and a prosperous and happy new year!~

in short...this entire final statement is pure Sudo...who pretends to do these things for people he feels he is intellectually superior to

which is good, because to make believe and pretend is an important early early stage of every human's development, as well as an early early stage of our collective human evolution

and a large part of why we do silly things like lift a glass in toast to things we wish we had, or wish would come true...and a way to thank something or someone we cannot see, for the good fortune of leaving savagery and solely selfish boneheadedness behind...if even for a day.

all stages of evolution arise to deal with the limitations of the previous

though owing their very existance to the previous stages

which remain quite valid and vital to continued growth

for example, the way the rational rugged individuals had to arise from the limits of the mythic family

and the way post-modern pluralism arose to overcome the limits of stone cold convention

and the way more creative and playful and informative networking structures try and arise from the wider open heart space made previously

this story is doomed to continue, of course

considering how dang stubborn all this seems to be

god or evolution or dna or spirit or anthropomorphic fields or whatever...

or all of the above and then some

Some things cannot be ignored in my opinion.

if the heart is bound, then unbind it

it has endless possibilities

Edited December 26, 2005 by sirguessalot

[TheInvisibleDan]

Whoa! Slow down here, guys.

Seems to me we're all coming across a bit on the pompous side here.

Perhaps I'm incorrect in this, but it seems "turning the other cheek" and "loving your enemy" and "good will toward all humankind" has gotten lost in the commotion here.

May I suggest that we try to be a bit more civil toward one another, regardless of our differences of beliefs or opinions ( or despite our perception that a poster may have been less than gracious in their response or attitude toward us)?

I'm far from having been consistent in this myself as of recent ( guilty as charged).

But I sincerely believe we can all do much better.

Again, it can be a rather stressful time of year.

thank you.

Danny

[CM]

Very True Danny

differences of beliefs or opinions

although sudo doesn't go for this sort of thing

everyone believes something

which is the point of this thread in part

and it'll be just enough

at the right time

and the Lord will work a work

that will not be believed till experienced

the old way theme-believe then see

is not hardly the case

it will be seen we can count on it

excathedra-appreciate your input but don't compromise

your own wit and intelligence and spiritual insights

Sirg-dear friend, time for toungues? :P

[GarthP2000]

Ya know, I find it totally fascinating, that when atheists are rendered from anything to being destined to burn forever in the fiery depths of hell, to being communists, to being incapable of having any morals at all, its treated as nothing really significant to get offended about. Why even George Bush Sr. once said that he didn't consider atheists to be patriotic because "this is one country under God", you see.

Yet Sudo comes across with what can be rationally considered a 'kind yet condescending put down' regarding why religious people believe like they do, and he's a "********** just for saying that". And many religious folks get 'morally outraged and indignant' because an atheist simply is returning the favor of what they honestly think religion amounts to, after being told by religious people what atheism amounts to. What ever happened to what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, hmmmm?

You all REALLY want to get your 'panties in a knot'? Really want to 'be made sad'? Try this link on for size.

Penn and Teller cuts to the chase!

Let it not be said that Penn and Teller pulls any punches. ;)

[CM]

He asked and I told him Garth

and i never said anyone is going to burn in Hell forever

seems to me the ones who are 'morally outraged and indignant'

are the ones that say there is no God

when it is seemingly obvious to anyone who cares to look

and btw i'm not religous..still figurin out who i am

and i have no intent yo make anyone sad

on the contrary i believe all wiill make it to "heaven"

Edited December 26, 2005 by CM

[CM]

and also btw i don't go by those old dusty scritures

there is a lot more word of life out there then you think

the scriptures serve their purpose and come to mind as needed

this another reason for this thread

life has happened right here under your nose

and you missed it cuz you are not lookin

[Sudo]

Excathedra,

I don't know who you think you are that you can say mean things to people and get away with it. Because you're having a "bad Christmas" as you say? So everyone will feel sorry for you and let you get away with saying any dang thing you want? I was trying to be nice and wish everyone a merry Christmas and a happy new year despite the differences we feel towards religion.

And "everyone sucks", huh? Take your self pity to someone who will indulge you. You would prefer I not even post here because I make you sad, you say? Sorry, lady. The Doctrinal forum is for grown ups who can discuss divisive theological issues. If you get so sad so easily then YOU need to stay away. And if you think my house and Christmas tree are stupid then kindly stay away from any threads you see that I started or participate in.

You may be sorry today reading the words you typed last night. I can say things in haste, too. I'd like to think you didn't really mean the things you said.

sudo

[CM]

yeah perhaps you could apologize ex. I didn't take Sudo's as strongly as you did.

but i know you need to be you and will not try to force anything on you

[excathedra]

i apologize sudo and everyone else

i was wrong and should have stayed away

i don't think your tree or house are stupid at all, i think they are lovely

bye i won't come down here

and i don't want you to feel sorry for me

i was not trying for self pity and that everyone would indulge me

first christmas without the father and things were very emotional and weird last night within our family

not offered for any reason to indulge me, just trying to explain

and i don't think i can just say anything i want to and get away with it

i am sorry. i should have just said i found your words to be condescending and had some excuses thrown in

atheists, believers, everyone, no one, i'm sorry

[CM]

ex-your cool-take it easy on yourself....

[excathedra]

i wanted to delete / edit my post long before any of you woke up, but i couldn't due to the rules here

i'm sure pawtucket and others are in their glory

i've been sufficiently reproved

although i already was by my own words and tried not to let any of you know

that will teach me, isn't that the intent here ?

[excathedra]

i don't feel like watching the penn and teller thing, garth

i'm actually not a bible believer really

i'm was just a sad@(%*up

[CM]

if you want to talk ex-send me private message

i'll give you my phone number

or you can give me yours

either way is fine-chat too

my son is on the computer with my yahoo account most of the time

anyways i have free long distance on a land line

let me know if you want to talk

Love Always

[excathedra]

thanks. right now i'm severely annoyed that i couldn't do something about what i said

from moderator when i asked to do such

Excathedra, Paw made the decision that the time limit for editing posts will be two hours. That gives enough time for people to cool down if they've posted in anger. Allowing editing after that severely disrupts the threads in that you have people responding to posts that appear to be non-existant to others reading the thread. Thanks for posting and have a happy new year.

i guess 2 hours didn't do it for me, sorry for severely disrupting this thread. happy new year

[CM]

it got disrupted before you posted...lol

no big deal though

peace

[satori001]

We're seeing what happens when cynics mix with mystics.

The mystic asks, somewhat naively, "how can you not believe." The cynic is only too happy about the opportunity to explain.

The cloud of unknowing collides with the cloud of uncaring. Thunder and lightning, the result.

Hey Sudo, excathedra wasn't mean, not to you anyway. I just don't believe you knelt in front of your Christmas tree and wept. C'mon.

[CM]

unknowing?

nope

don't think so

what's a mystic?

[sirguessalot]

ok, look…

ive been hanging around here for years, just like all yalls

I owe a lot of my life to this place, the experiences, the information,

and the interactions that happen here (whether it am in them or not)

learned a lot of lessons, and have made a lot of friends

we share cultures, religious experiences

same books, same arguments

yada yada yada

no?

this venue is truly and personally valuable to many of us,

and increasingly so, as life goes on here and there

i also happen to know a thing or two about verbal abuse and manipulation as group behaviour,

and different causes of family and community discord and disfunction

so as for lightening up because of the christmas blues…

i am hear to say that these dudes aggravate the christmas blues

manipulative suggestive accusations

argumentative reductionists

often gleeful tormentors

character assassination

interpersonal sarcasm

like worm-tongue

cynical repetition

masked intent

yada yada

this is not merely a point of view, per se

but hellbent on getting others to feel responsible for their own disowned crap

they might even be comfortable with how and why they are being this way

and become more and more unconscious of their own behavior as they do it

and maybe even more and more unconscious of how it effects others

and better and better at finding ways to blame it on you and me

always reducing all experiences and experiencers to as little as possible

its just gross, and getting more gross as the years roll by, imo

i also happen to think that there are many huge differences between men and women

one of which, is how men typically do not take criticism from a woman

and almost always blame it on mere moodiness or bitchiness

but when a wise, caring, experienced woman stands up and calls em names

her criticism may not be true, but the reasons for it sure the hell are

also, its actually much harder for (and on) such a woman to dish out verbal abuse

not to mention how she will most likely be dismissed for merely being deceived by feelings

(which are also recognized as a legit form of intelligence)

typically takes another guy to say something

which makes it hard if the men are passive types in the first place

(bullies prey on these types, more than others)

my standing up is due to reasons beyond this thread

because this thread never had a chance

and, imo, is a perfect example

and so, ex, imo, you don’t have to apologize for anything you wrote here

or even apologize for apologizing

i want so bad to talk to clay and whomever about the boundless heart

even if i have to eat these guys for lunch

in order to re-open the dialogue

i will not apologize for this

or my request for some transparency

without all the stupid reduction

that immediately kills the value of dialogue

call it my Xmas wish

for this corner of the forum

addressed directly to Sudo, George, Garth and whomever else is my Santa, this year

please oh please oh pretty please will you friggin learn a few more things!

oh, and…unless i get banned for anything ive written

(and i just might, which would pretty much suck)

i’ll be back later with some more thoughts on the matter

but, for everyone’s sake, i would rather not do the tit-for-tat quote and scientifically pick-apart-the-lies-in-court crap til the cows come home (though we could, and it wouldnt get any prettier)… i prefer to eat what they're eating and make a hugely egoic bonehead out of myself, maybe try the butt-naked red white and blue striped wide-eyed crazy man jumping up and down on the friggin table wagging my tongue public display in your face routine til you simply shut up and wilt away…even tho it might not even work

btw, i think the value of “i’m just pretending” changes dramatically, depending on the the actual contours of the intent.

I can also pretend i am also just a kid (and actually am, compared to most of you)

picture me giggling and pointing at the kings’ exposed pee pees and laughing outloud

ps…try not to worry bout the kings too much. and im not as concerned about them, for their sake…they’ll be fine... After all, they don’t even believe in a boundless heart. maybe someone will even show them the kindness they deserve, if their heart will allow it.

im more concerned with how it simply kills communication and the flow of better information, here, now, and quite often.

and i think whats really sad, is that after a while, we can all just get so used it, and defend it as “normal,” if even in order to help feel more sane in light of all the accusations contrary

Edited December 27, 2005 by sirguessalot

[satori001]

A mystic is one who directly perceives, or claims to perceive, a reality beyond the realm of the senses. It is an experiential knowledge first, out of which revelations may proceed regarding the nature of existence, purpose, destiny... crap like that.

The Cloud of Unknowing is a famous (maybe not that famous) little book about mystical experience written by A. Nonymous. You probably wouldn't like it.

--

sirguessalot,

A lotta gas, sir. Brevity, for the luvva Pete! Coherence may follow.

Edited December 27, 2005 by satori001

[sirguessalot]

maybe it could be said

that a mystic explores the inner subjective nature of awareness itself

where a scientist specializes at exploring the objective outer perspective

both can and do get stuck in their own interpretation of what is

becauses neither holds all the keys to "truths of reality," and other silly notions

(and then there are all those all kinds of all kinds of all kinds of other things)

A lotta gas, sir. Brevity, for the luvva Pete! Coherence may follow.

lol...Satori....yes, im being a very windy idiot

also, i enjoy impressionism as much as i enjoy photography

maybe stand back a bit more...lol

thunder and lightning

faboom faboom faboom

Edited December 27, 2005 by sirguessalot

[satori001]

The two-hour edit policy is downright obnoxious. I tried. The majority has spoken, and gone unheeded. It's a shame.

[Sudo]

Excathedra,

Thank you. That's what I really thought. You were posting late after having a bad day. No hard feelings on my part and I'm glad you don't think my Christmas tree is stupid, too! :P

sudo

[CM]

A mystic is one who directly perceives, or claims to perceive, a reality beyond the realm of the senses. It is an experiential knowledge first, out of which revelations may proceed regarding the nature of existence, purpose, destiny... crap like that.

directly perceives.....you mean see right?

a reality beyond the realm of the senses?

no that ain't it if your talking the pfal5

perhaps you have more senses then thought?

like the abilty to directly perceive beyond the pfal5

but it's not adding or subtracting

more of a wider eye, a bigger ear

more sensitive to many things in the 5

Edited December 27, 2005 by CM