Boundless Heart presents a unique interweaving of teachings on the Four Immeasurables and instruction on quiescence, or shamatha, meditation practices. Alan Wallace's teachings on the Four Immeasurables are based on Buddhaghosa's Path of Purification and address the cultivation of loving kindness, compassion, equanimity, and empathetic joy. It is a rich suite of practices that open the heart, counter the distortions in our relationships to ourselves, and deepen our relationships to others.
On these foundational practices of Theravada Buddhism, Alan brings to bear the insights and approaches of the Tibetan tradition. Juxtaposed with the Four Immeasurables, he presents teachings on shamatha meditation practice to empower the mind and render it "fit for service." His meditation instructions provide the steps for the complete achievement of shamatha.
This book is based on teachings given during a week-long retreat at a remote and beautiful site in the Eastern Sierras, and in its tone we experience the intimacy and focus of the setting. In addition to Alan's unique style of presentation, blending vivid story-telling with incisive analysis, the book includes both guided meditations and lively discussions in which the participants grapple with the implications of these teachings for their own lives.
Boundless Heart, B. Alan Wallace, Snow Lion, 183pp, $14.95
Garth, Garth. You don't believe Clinton lied do you? I bet you believed Elvis did drugs...too!!!
Sorry, I just felt the jaw-dropping statement was a little condescending, if not naive. See? I misunderstood you completely.
The scenario you describe - you make it sound like it's an incredible shock to hear such things. Unfortunately it's not. This is America. Everyone has the right to as much greed, hatred and prejudice as they can muster. It's the way it is and has little to do with religion although religion often provides an excellent enviorenment for it.
So rather than go into some tearful description of my own experience with such matters I can point to something common to a lot of people on this board that have many of the elements of what you described -
Going W.O.W. Picture the friendly W.O.W., happily bearing the Good News of Jesus Christ Is Not God, in book form! to their new friends in Smalltown U.S.A.
It's more about people, and our lack of perspective, tolerance and ability to see beyond our own noses that make us that way I think.
Which is why I don't like religious organizations, execpt for the lightness of whatever fellowship and friendship that they offer, if they do. But I don't start twitching at the mention of religion or atheism for that matter, because they might be sending me to hell for who knows what. I don't worry about that, and thank God I do live in a country where, at least for now and hopefully for the future I'm working for, I can live in that freedom. That's one reason why I live where I live. Next to some of these characters around here I look normal.
Going W.O.W. biglaugh.gif Picture the friendly W.O.W., happily bearing the Good News of Jesus Christ Is Not God, in book form! to their new friends in Smalltown U.S.A.
Socks,
So you *DO* understand more of what we infidels go thru!
Sort of, anyway. 2 of the biggest self-proclaimed "infidels" here are 2 of my best "cyber buddies". I have spent more than a few hours talking to them on the phone. They know where I stand as far as my belief's, and I know where they stand. I have no desire to force my beliefs on them, and they have no desire to force their's on me. Funny, in all the hours of conversation we've had, we just don't discuss it. Hey, maybe I'm their "token" Christian friend. :)
With both of these guy's, what is important is the things we have in common, not our differences. And for those reasons, I cherish our friendship.
I guess I don't really don't have a point to make. So I'll bow out now. Thanks for listening! :)
Well said Bluzeman. I firmly believe that life is too short to start picking out differences. Let's find what we have in common and enjoy each other's company while we can.
in trying to get closer to those "doctrines of a boundless heart" together…
first…sorry if i came across like i was getting in your face, Tom Strange. I know how a list of questions outta-the-blue can come across as interrogative hot lamp. it would be nice if we could ask each other anything, without having to flinch and wonder why
and yes. thanks for that, Bluzeman…i think it’s amazing what transparency and respect can do…yes, i would call it friendship, too…common ground sought and found…some common language in play …a place where you find that your "maps" overlap...which just gets better and richer the longer you can sit there together
and yes, too. like doojable said, lets do "this" as long as we can
to which i add...yes...lets get better and better at doing "it," we should have done "it" more often, and sooner
do what…?
- find common ground…first. most common seems quickest and easiest to find
- to see what clay is pointing at…beyond mereness of heart, beyond mereness of air, beyond mereness of life
- like that book you mentioned, and all the other tons of links and white rabbits that came jumping out of the woods from that google
- like how finding greater common ground is a major factor in any huge leap forward, personally, historically. From the new testament “revolutions/revelations” of the Bible…to post-modern advancements in all science and psychology
and so…yes yes…more common ground, please…now, here, today, if we can
here is a whimsical thread i started on the subject some time ago
better questions = better ways and means to find more of this common ground
rationally reasonably respectfully too
make a wide open space and bring all the sciences and sciences of sciences you can
and bring all the myths and lets look at them
and don’t forget to bring all your wishful thinking
and your always radically individual self
and engage your intuition
and a boundless heart
cuz i tell ya
from where i sit…
So much has been already written about what has been called a boundless heart, over and over again, throughout both history and modernity, interpreted and re-interpreted through every stage human creation/evolution. The most directly scientific of which seem to be the plain instructional exercises and pointing-out instructions. And then there is also all the art and law and such…which touches the boundless heart from other perspectives
But whatever one wants to call it now…this “boundless heart,” or “opening way”…in a very general overall sense…IS that which comes after scientific enlightenment (which comes after “mythic enlightenment,” which comes after “magical enlightenment,” etc…) in order to answer for the shortfalls and true limits and problems created by the true gifts of scientific theory and praxis.
And it seems that this “more open way” has a greater potential to increase the values of science (and myth and magic), and is best when supported by science (and myth and magic)…all of which eventually opens up to even better things, (the most immediate of which, is to increase (deepen, multiply, magnify) the value of all existing and emerging language and information we allow…which is a big Homer Simpson “Woohoo!”, imho…).
and, No …NOT by merely putting on rose colored glasses again…but by finding out how to take off yet another set of goggles…to simply see more (of course…then there are those other glasses, then those other glasses, etc..)
Not easy either for the flat rational thinker…they would have to learn to play like a child again, in this arena…being quite new-again to an idea of there being rational value in notions of a boundless heart.
and this is obviously not always an easy sell to the ego
the mere mention can even cause severe negative reactions
but the ability to play together in higher states and stages of post-conventional thinking is another good reason why pre-conventional lessons (such as myth and magic) are highly worth keeping around
To put it all another set of contexts: i also believe this “more open way” is what was and has been kicking at the heart of American thought all along, although it might not always seem so to everyone. But that evolutionary impulse has a way of forcing its new freedoms (and problems) through whatever cultural/social template already exists (which in the US was a lot of new rational rugged independence as much as good ole mythic fatherland stuff).
of course, there is even a limit to greater openness..which is when and where it is not fully open (like when it rejects science and myth, making a playground for narcissism and extremes of egoic decadence and waste of resources…and god knows we all know there is a heap of that going on in this crazy country and world)
btw…i truly am sorry for losing anyone with my blather. and i am not here to be pedantic or snobbish and superior, though i do know i am probably coming off this way to some, in all my mirroring and shadowing and pugnacity…please forgive for feelings i have hurt
which is why i do prefer play-mode over war-mode
when it comes to solving, exploring, investigating
especially when it comes to written dialogue
because i have seen and do believe
that practicing having an open heart simply works better
i knew you were more in the play mode then serious attack mode sirg, and if i were to speculate many have picked up a few goodies from everyone that has posted on this thread. and also this play mode is serious when serious things are played with and sought to be seen within the heart that is boundless. someone said this is not doctrine-but plain simple it is the doctrine-not some unmoveable object but living breathing growing life.
reminds me of a lot of things...too damn many, in fact..lol
which is a big part of why it has my attention
but so i am not sure which way to approach it from here
but i would like to share with you all that i know, too
as well as help draw out the wisdom of everyone else
only, i am not always sure how to go about it
other than babbling like a stream without end
which annoys the heck outta me too
and so i was wondering if we could try and focus the lines and circles of reasoning
somehow maybe give some sort of form and flow to the discourse
for example: maybe we can find a way to speak in a more "positive neutral" from time to time
like...in order to temporarily answer "what is a boundless heart"...maybe we can assume that this notion of a boundless heart is neither a religion nor a belief, nor is it owned by any one religion or belief...but is some archetypal pattern of our natural normal human capacity which has been expressed throughout the history of human experience
(whether "it is in God plan for us" or "it is a product of evolution"...or something else)
and considering that "how" is perhaps one of the most potent little words to start any sacred question with (which is another thing about this thread that got my attention), maybe let us ask things like "how might we refine good questions into better questions?"
like "how CAN one believe in a boundless heart?"
which is where i would like to go with it from here
but with my own voice, in the ways i have come to understand it
one can pick out many things in your posts sirg and find the hidden spiritual that is plain to see when considered with the evenness of a searching and looking for those things that only the spirit can ascertain by reflection and looking at them in a new perspective-a spiritual perspective that is as real as a carnal or senses seeing
as well as all who posted here, wether they see it or not they have spoken great truths hidden in plain sight when seen and considered in different lights-yes lights, plural-that wasn't a spelling error
and this Love that is God that is in us-where it always has been-yet not yet seen becomes boundless as it is explored in the mind and given away to who ever we can cuz he keeps filling and making it more intense yet peaceful and graceful
mercy has it's perfect work and old things are gone and the new is revealed to the inner man\woman
which is how it was in the beginning-adam who was one-eve taken out of adam and they were still one with that which is created....is created, an ongoing realization of that which is within-and one with the creator which is within us, holy spirit the mother of life, the strength, the energy, the boundlessness of it
new senses that evolve from the same that are within, new because the new eye and ear can see and hear that which the spirit is saying
feeling becomes more then feeling with our bodies, hearing is more then with the ear seeing is more then with the eye touching is more then with the hand smelling is more then with the nose
are we flesh or are we in the flesh? bound by the flesh or willing to see that the boundless heart only resides there and can supersede the limitations of the flesh
There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not: 19The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Good to see you SirG. After reading you on this thread it seems more like Samurai Sir Guessi.
Hope all is going well with your artistic endevours.
I can say I don't get offended by the title of this thread.
Note to readers:
When something is written in a prose like fashion and doesn't seem to make sense....it is usually written that way to perhaps inspire thought.
When I read "boundless heart" I immediately thought of love.
Sometimes my wife and I look at our kids with a huge smile and eyes full of tears.
My wife says to me, "Where do you put it all?"
I look at her and say, "I don't know, it's just there."
It seems endless..."boundless" and greater than you, uncontainable.
When we were newly married and pregnant with the first one, my wife would ask me, "How am I going to be able to love another person this much?" Not that she couldn't imagine it, but the love we had for each other was (is) so great it was hard to put your brain around it.
Well the first kid came and of course the love was there. With the next one it was the same. The love just keeps coming. Sometimes you feel it so much that it really does seem too much to handle...like you will explode...like it is much more than you can contain...infinite in fact. I understand the need to use language that goes beyond the easily understood.
I believe this is still a human attribute, though, which is why I have stated before that I have faith and hope in humanity. I know the great things that come from a boundless heart. As a believer would say, "I know it to be so, I have 'seen it', I can feel it. It is in me" One may call it God or god or Bob, but perhaps it is all the same.
Struggling over symantics.
Choking and fighting over words.
To figure out a way to describe something so big. Or seemingly so big.
What are we really talking about when we say heart. The figurative sense and is figurative in reality a way of describing that part of your brain, your personality? It is the brain. The boundless brain. It seems endless- the things we humans can accomplish.
The boundlessness spans time and is an evolution.
Standing at the top of the world trade center on August 11, 2001, I looked out and said, "WOW! Man made this." I imagined the men that built it sitting back after it was complete and saying, "Holy sh!t we built this" and the feeling of a collective greatness, something bigger than themselves, coming over them the same way it had over me after building something amazing with others. Then I thought, "Man it would suck to fall from here."
One month to the day later people did and a sadness and hurt came over me and seemed greater than I could contain. It felt almost like a collective pain in the air for weeks after that. There was also a collective purpose in the following days. It was almost a tangible feeling.
These days I feel a sense of personal potential. I know I am cabable of many great things. Not in a cocky sort of way but in the sense that I know that I know that I have the potential for greatness. But not just potential, the feeling of actually possessing it but not able to "tap" it yet, but it is there. So in a way it is as though I feel like I have something greater than myself embedded within me.
So, you see where I am going with this...
I think I sort of understand the sense of God or a god, but I don't call it that. Nor do I think it to be a bad or evil thing to believe that this power or potential comes from little ol' me. The power to love, the power to connect, create, and the boundless potential that comes with that.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
23
10
30
7
Popular Days
Dec 26
27
Dec 28
26
Dec 27
24
Dec 24
11
Top Posters In This Topic
sirguessalot 23 posts
GarthP2000 10 posts
CM 30 posts
Sudo 7 posts
Popular Days
Dec 26 2005
27 posts
Dec 28 2005
26 posts
Dec 27 2005
24 posts
Dec 24 2005
11 posts
doojable
I googled and here's what I found:
THE FOUR IMMEASURABLES
Boundless Heart presents a unique interweaving of teachings on the Four Immeasurables and instruction on quiescence, or shamatha, meditation practices. Alan Wallace's teachings on the Four Immeasurables are based on Buddhaghosa's Path of Purification and address the cultivation of loving kindness, compassion, equanimity, and empathetic joy. It is a rich suite of practices that open the heart, counter the distortions in our relationships to ourselves, and deepen our relationships to others.
On these foundational practices of Theravada Buddhism, Alan brings to bear the insights and approaches of the Tibetan tradition. Juxtaposed with the Four Immeasurables, he presents teachings on shamatha meditation practice to empower the mind and render it "fit for service." His meditation instructions provide the steps for the complete achievement of shamatha.
This book is based on teachings given during a week-long retreat at a remote and beautiful site in the Eastern Sierras, and in its tone we experience the intimacy and focus of the setting. In addition to Alan's unique style of presentation, blending vivid story-telling with incisive analysis, the book includes both guided meditations and lively discussions in which the participants grapple with the implications of these teachings for their own lives.
Boundless Heart, B. Alan Wallace, Snow Lion, 183pp, $14.95
Can I have my cookie now? :)
Edited by doojableLink to comment
Share on other sites
socks
Garth, Garth. You don't believe Clinton lied do you? I bet you believed Elvis did drugs...too!!!
Sorry, I just felt the jaw-dropping statement was a little condescending, if not naive. See? I misunderstood you completely.
The scenario you describe - you make it sound like it's an incredible shock to hear such things. Unfortunately it's not. This is America. Everyone has the right to as much greed, hatred and prejudice as they can muster. It's the way it is and has little to do with religion although religion often provides an excellent enviorenment for it.
So rather than go into some tearful description of my own experience with such matters I can point to something common to a lot of people on this board that have many of the elements of what you described -
Going W.O.W.
Picture the friendly W.O.W., happily bearing the Good News of Jesus Christ Is Not God, in book form! to their new friends in Smalltown U.S.A.
It's more about people, and our lack of perspective, tolerance and ability to see beyond our own noses that make us that way I think.
Which is why I don't like religious organizations, execpt for the lightness of whatever fellowship and friendship that they offer, if they do. But I don't start twitching at the mention of religion or atheism for that matter, because they might be sending me to hell for who knows what. I don't worry about that, and thank God I do live in a country where, at least for now and hopefully for the future I'm working for, I can live in that freedom. That's one reason why I live where I live. Next to some of these characters around here I look normal.
Edited by socksLink to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
Socks,
So you *DO* understand more of what we infidels go thru!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
And all this time I thought the answer was 42.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bluzeman
Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy!
Oh, wait...this isn't the movie thread. :)
Sort of, anyway. 2 of the biggest self-proclaimed "infidels" here are 2 of my best "cyber buddies". I have spent more than a few hours talking to them on the phone. They know where I stand as far as my belief's, and I know where they stand. I have no desire to force my beliefs on them, and they have no desire to force their's on me. Funny, in all the hours of conversation we've had, we just don't discuss it. Hey, maybe I'm their "token" Christian friend. :)
With both of these guy's, what is important is the things we have in common, not our differences. And for those reasons, I cherish our friendship.
I guess I don't really don't have a point to make. So I'll bow out now. Thanks for listening! :)
Rick
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
Well said Bluzeman. I firmly believe that life is too short to start picking out differences. Let's find what we have in common and enjoy each other's company while we can.
Edited by doojableLink to comment
Share on other sites
CM
see and here's another point of this thread
everyone believes something
the statement
"Where I stand"
is the proof
so there really isn't such a thing as an un believer
some are just stuck in what they believe
which is fine with me
i choose to be willing to consider other things and change
i got no problem with noone
we shall all be changed it says in the bible
constantly and also in a flash
some future date some think
why not now
and thru out our current life?
and the nextone....
boundless.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
and that isn't to put anyone down either
i'm stuck in few places myself
so it's not i'm this and you are that
that's not what i am saying
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
and being stuck in a few places ain't so bad
it's like closing your eyes
and resting
and breathing
getting peaceful
sometimes professional help is needed
till i'm ready to open my eyes
and take what i can in moderation
and give what i can in moderation
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
ok, here goes another rant for the wall…
in trying to get closer to those "doctrines of a boundless heart" together…
first…sorry if i came across like i was getting in your face, Tom Strange. I know how a list of questions outta-the-blue can come across as interrogative hot lamp. it would be nice if we could ask each other anything, without having to flinch and wonder why
and yes. thanks for that, Bluzeman…i think it’s amazing what transparency and respect can do…yes, i would call it friendship, too…common ground sought and found…some common language in play …a place where you find that your "maps" overlap...which just gets better and richer the longer you can sit there together
and yes, too. like doojable said, lets do "this" as long as we can
to which i add...yes...lets get better and better at doing "it," we should have done "it" more often, and sooner
do what…?
- find common ground…first. most common seems quickest and easiest to find
- to see what clay is pointing at…beyond mereness of heart, beyond mereness of air, beyond mereness of life
- like that book you mentioned, and all the other tons of links and white rabbits that came jumping out of the woods from that google
- like how finding greater common ground is a major factor in any huge leap forward, personally, historically. From the new testament “revolutions/revelations” of the Bible…to post-modern advancements in all science and psychology
and so…yes yes…more common ground, please…now, here, today, if we can
here is a whimsical thread i started on the subject some time ago
better questions = better ways and means to find more of this common ground
rationally reasonably respectfully too
make a wide open space and bring all the sciences and sciences of sciences you can
and bring all the myths and lets look at them
and don’t forget to bring all your wishful thinking
and your always radically individual self
and engage your intuition
and a boundless heart
cuz i tell ya
from where i sit…
So much has been already written about what has been called a boundless heart, over and over again, throughout both history and modernity, interpreted and re-interpreted through every stage human creation/evolution. The most directly scientific of which seem to be the plain instructional exercises and pointing-out instructions. And then there is also all the art and law and such…which touches the boundless heart from other perspectives
But whatever one wants to call it now…this “boundless heart,” or “opening way”…in a very general overall sense…IS that which comes after scientific enlightenment (which comes after “mythic enlightenment,” which comes after “magical enlightenment,” etc…) in order to answer for the shortfalls and true limits and problems created by the true gifts of scientific theory and praxis.
And it seems that this “more open way” has a greater potential to increase the values of science (and myth and magic), and is best when supported by science (and myth and magic)…all of which eventually opens up to even better things, (the most immediate of which, is to increase (deepen, multiply, magnify) the value of all existing and emerging language and information we allow…which is a big Homer Simpson “Woohoo!”, imho…).
and, No …NOT by merely putting on rose colored glasses again…but by finding out how to take off yet another set of goggles…to simply see more (of course…then there are those other glasses, then those other glasses, etc..)
Not easy either for the flat rational thinker…they would have to learn to play like a child again, in this arena…being quite new-again to an idea of there being rational value in notions of a boundless heart.
and this is obviously not always an easy sell to the ego
the mere mention can even cause severe negative reactions
but the ability to play together in higher states and stages of post-conventional thinking is another good reason why pre-conventional lessons (such as myth and magic) are highly worth keeping around
To put it all another set of contexts: i also believe this “more open way” is what was and has been kicking at the heart of American thought all along, although it might not always seem so to everyone. But that evolutionary impulse has a way of forcing its new freedoms (and problems) through whatever cultural/social template already exists (which in the US was a lot of new rational rugged independence as much as good ole mythic fatherland stuff).
of course, there is even a limit to greater openness..which is when and where it is not fully open (like when it rejects science and myth, making a playground for narcissism and extremes of egoic decadence and waste of resources…and god knows we all know there is a heap of that going on in this crazy country and world)
btw…i truly am sorry for losing anyone with my blather. and i am not here to be pedantic or snobbish and superior, though i do know i am probably coming off this way to some, in all my mirroring and shadowing and pugnacity…please forgive for feelings i have hurt
which is why i do prefer play-mode over war-mode
when it comes to solving, exploring, investigating
especially when it comes to written dialogue
because i have seen and do believe
that practicing having an open heart simply works better
gets us even closer to the heart of any problem
more effectively than mere truth can
Edited by sirguessalotLink to comment
Share on other sites
CM
i knew you were more in the play mode then serious attack mode sirg, and if i were to speculate many have picked up a few goodies from everyone that has posted on this thread. and also this play mode is serious when serious things are played with and sought to be seen within the heart that is boundless. someone said this is not doctrine-but plain simple it is the doctrine-not some unmoveable object but living breathing growing life.
which is Christ
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
and to add a bit more...
love is the bottom and top line
as TGN pointed out
grounding ourselves in love is the basis
the launching point into infinity and beyond
getting rooted in it
staying grounded in it
God is Love...
and i wish i had the energy right now to copy and paste
all the great points made by all
but i didn't expect this to be so long
we are the image of god
rest in it
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
CM,
this ground
this love
this God
you speak of
reminds me of a lot of things...too damn many, in fact..lol
which is a big part of why it has my attention
but so i am not sure which way to approach it from here
but i would like to share with you all that i know, too
as well as help draw out the wisdom of everyone else
only, i am not always sure how to go about it
other than babbling like a stream without end
which annoys the heck outta me too
and so i was wondering if we could try and focus the lines and circles of reasoning
somehow maybe give some sort of form and flow to the discourse
for example: maybe we can find a way to speak in a more "positive neutral" from time to time
like...in order to temporarily answer "what is a boundless heart"...maybe we can assume that this notion of a boundless heart is neither a religion nor a belief, nor is it owned by any one religion or belief...but is some archetypal pattern of our natural normal human capacity which has been expressed throughout the history of human experience
(whether "it is in God plan for us" or "it is a product of evolution"...or something else)
and considering that "how" is perhaps one of the most potent little words to start any sacred question with (which is another thing about this thread that got my attention), maybe let us ask things like "how might we refine good questions into better questions?"
like "how CAN one believe in a boundless heart?"
which is where i would like to go with it from here
but with my own voice, in the ways i have come to understand it
Edited by sirguessalotLink to comment
Share on other sites
CM
one can pick out many things in your posts sirg and find the hidden spiritual that is plain to see when considered with the evenness of a searching and looking for those things that only the spirit can ascertain by reflection and looking at them in a new perspective-a spiritual perspective that is as real as a carnal or senses seeing
as well as all who posted here, wether they see it or not they have spoken great truths hidden in plain sight when seen and considered in different lights-yes lights, plural-that wasn't a spelling error
and this Love that is God that is in us-where it always has been-yet not yet seen becomes boundless as it is explored in the mind and given away to who ever we can cuz he keeps filling and making it more intense yet peaceful and graceful
mercy has it's perfect work and old things are gone and the new is revealed to the inner man\woman
which is how it was in the beginning-adam who was one-eve taken out of adam and they were still one with that which is created....is created, an ongoing realization of that which is within-and one with the creator which is within us, holy spirit the mother of life, the strength, the energy, the boundlessness of it
new senses that evolve from the same that are within, new because the new eye and ear can see and hear that which the spirit is saying
feeling becomes more then feeling with our bodies, hearing is more then with the ear seeing is more then with the eye touching is more then with the hand smelling is more then with the nose
are we flesh or are we in the flesh? bound by the flesh or willing to see that the boundless heart only resides there and can supersede the limitations of the flesh
....as you know....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
ok, here's some thoughts...
(tho I failed miserably at keeping em short and simple..as usual…
please forgive if i seem to repeat myself from different angles)
How can we believe?
Most generically, it seems,
is by practicing getting comfortable with notions like pain and suffering and enduring
and surrendering and allowing, even to the fullest breaking of our own hearts and souls, if we must.
In more traditions than I can count
this IS what is considered to "die before you die"
...which is kinda like saying "to meet or experience God"
or some other such sense of "ultimate source" or "original face."
This kind of state of awareness has been called things like “the boundless heart”
Although, its not mere magic, not mere myth, not mere science
…but higher sciences, using natural human talents
and the ability to touch and taste and experience death
by practicing leaning into a fuller spectrum of suffering and the death-like states that surround it.
:mellow: huh? wha? Yikes!
What nutcase would do such a thing?
Let alone condone the practice of suffering?
…and then to intentionally and more deeply feeling pain…?!?
:(
I know, I know...to be honest, on the surface, it doesn’t sound very good or sane or pretty, to me, either.
It’s like someone suggesting that we drink a cup of molten lead
then chase it with a bowl of live scorpions and snakes
right before we dive head first off a cliff.
It’s no wonder how guys like jesus made so many grown men cry
…when the good news came across as real real bad bad news.
But the payoffs…
…traditionally, the payoffs have been called things like “heaven, salvation, redemption, enlightenment”
yada yada…
(though modernity and post modernity also have many great languages of their own)…
But to be more direct...
...it is how we find even deeper personal freedoms from all kinds of self-deceptions
and all our various natural death-grips on the ego
…and it is how we actually simply feel and experience and more-or-less “activate”
a greater sense of compassion and awarenesses
with bounds that expand far outside of our conventional sense of self...
…and its how we quicken/hasten our "ultimate release"
by actually tasting and touching the essence of the process often called "death itself,"
but in very real ordinary experienced occasions
(which occasions, imo, remain quite worth calling something like “sacred”
…because of what they offer us is specialized…and thus, special…and in a class of their own)
…
There seem to be thousands of ways to practice and direction to approach this one kind of damn-near terrifying thing
....via arts, sciences, schools, beliefs, practices, ways, methods, instructions, styles, etc...
There are so many simple and effective ways of consciously learning to “die before we die...”
It’s kind of like “the final lesson” or “last stage”
of the “first full backflip” of our entire natural human self awarenesses
where the universe literally becomes new to us again
via the additional layers of new experienced perspectives.
all of which then tends to increase our capacities
to live and die with a fuller sense of grace and richness
and more capably maintain a sense of equanimity
during the occasions of birth and change and loss and death
And so I cant help but also call this way a gift…
this access to a real live felt-sense of “death being swallowed by love”
through a door that is always already simply just there, within
…via your own heart, your own breath, the air you breathe, your will,
and all the many many complexities and systems tied to that package.
my oh my….how they all become more important…yet again, again, again
the ways we feel when we breathe
the ways we breath when we feel
the ways we think when we breath
the ways we feel with our body
the ways we think with our body
the ways we feel with our mind
the ways we feel what we see
the ways we see what we think
the ways we see what we dream
the ways we see what we remember
…
Looking back at that pair of infamous exemplars
in an era in which this kind of interior practice first seemed to emerge
we see that the pattern is fundamental to both original christian teachings and original buddhist teachings…
...the crazy idea that pain and suffering are “a gate” to some new level of experienced freedom and awareness
and that such a “bloody red road through hell” was more or less the one and only "entry gate to heaven"
such language is mythic, of course, as were the times these truths were realized
But as with all experience, they were interpreted and expressed through the mythic and magic eras they emerged in.
And as we learn more and more about the truer reasons for the things the ancients were trying to say
...the writings become even more valuable to the post-modern sciences
…especially as it pertains to the notions of a “boundless heart”
…
Traditionally, to “repent,” or “turn completely around”
is NOT to find some correct outer direction,
but an actual turning your perspectives inside-out, also.
This is the direction Moses “turned” in order to see the “burning bush.”
This is the direction John at Patmos turned to see that radiant figure who took him on a grand tour of reality.
It is to enter a realm of your own interior self
and start practicing forms of “higher science” in a new frontier
(“higher,” in that it is literally subtler, using the most delicate and sophisticated and sensitive equipment known to man:
the interior and awareness of your very own human being)
Mere mythic interpretations aside…
this is something that could literally be called:
- one’s own “personal narrowest only perfect truest path”
- your “one and only way to heaven” or some other sense of “personal route to greater freedom”
There is literally only “one true way” for each and everyone one of us to “enter heaven”
and experience the “boundless heart” for ourselves
and we each obviously only have one true inward direction
which need not be mistaken for anyone else’s
(though it often is, anyway)
And scripture or no…this seems a lot like what the kid and his buddies were trying to say
Funny too, how most all deeply effective spiritual practices that i know of,
are typically characterized by activities that any ole human being could do
while naked and alone in the dark…
And again…scripture or no…this seems a lot like what the kid and his buddies were trying to say
Which is all just more good news on top of good news, imo…in the most basic of ways.
The “boundless heart” is a new frontier,
where the unexplored darkness is NOT outside,
but WITHIN the actual breathing, pulsing, body and heart and mind of each of us.
The very contours and textures of our truest selves
are revealed to US via practicing ways of “interior illumination,” and no other way
In other words…if you don’t claim your free ticket, you simply do not get to go
But if we find a good way to go there,
one thing we will find is that we also have this amazing sense of “felt intelligence”
than can be consciously enacted, and almost radically so, with instruction and practice
And what this does is basically more deeply introduce us to our best teacher and wrestling partner
…our own personal interior shadows as they interact and relate to the truths of the outer world.
talk about a brave new world…
and a warning: just as the skeptics often say about their own favorite domain
…it is also true of the boundless heart…once you enter, there is no turning back
and it seems best if we find ways to ease into this fiery realm
one little ooh-ah at a time, if we must
happy new year
Edited by sirguessalotLink to comment
Share on other sites
CM
i wonder if anyone has gotten anything good out of this thread. i have and the ones that spoke. just wondering....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not: 19The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
lindyhopper
Well, that was fun to read through.
Good to see you SirG. After reading you on this thread it seems more like Samurai Sir Guessi.
Hope all is going well with your artistic endevours.
I can say I don't get offended by the title of this thread.
Note to readers:
When something is written in a prose like fashion and doesn't seem to make sense....it is usually written that way to perhaps inspire thought.
When I read "boundless heart" I immediately thought of love.
Sometimes my wife and I look at our kids with a huge smile and eyes full of tears.
My wife says to me, "Where do you put it all?"
I look at her and say, "I don't know, it's just there."
It seems endless..."boundless" and greater than you, uncontainable.
When we were newly married and pregnant with the first one, my wife would ask me, "How am I going to be able to love another person this much?" Not that she couldn't imagine it, but the love we had for each other was (is) so great it was hard to put your brain around it.
Well the first kid came and of course the love was there. With the next one it was the same. The love just keeps coming. Sometimes you feel it so much that it really does seem too much to handle...like you will explode...like it is much more than you can contain...infinite in fact. I understand the need to use language that goes beyond the easily understood.
I believe this is still a human attribute, though, which is why I have stated before that I have faith and hope in humanity. I know the great things that come from a boundless heart. As a believer would say, "I know it to be so, I have 'seen it', I can feel it. It is in me" One may call it God or god or Bob, but perhaps it is all the same.
Struggling over symantics.
Choking and fighting over words.
To figure out a way to describe something so big. Or seemingly so big.
What are we really talking about when we say heart. The figurative sense and is figurative in reality a way of describing that part of your brain, your personality? It is the brain. The boundless brain. It seems endless- the things we humans can accomplish.
The boundlessness spans time and is an evolution.
Standing at the top of the world trade center on August 11, 2001, I looked out and said, "WOW! Man made this." I imagined the men that built it sitting back after it was complete and saying, "Holy sh!t we built this" and the feeling of a collective greatness, something bigger than themselves, coming over them the same way it had over me after building something amazing with others. Then I thought, "Man it would suck to fall from here."
One month to the day later people did and a sadness and hurt came over me and seemed greater than I could contain. It felt almost like a collective pain in the air for weeks after that. There was also a collective purpose in the following days. It was almost a tangible feeling.
These days I feel a sense of personal potential. I know I am cabable of many great things. Not in a cocky sort of way but in the sense that I know that I know that I have the potential for greatness. But not just potential, the feeling of actually possessing it but not able to "tap" it yet, but it is there. So in a way it is as though I feel like I have something greater than myself embedded within me.
So, you see where I am going with this...
I think I sort of understand the sense of God or a god, but I don't call it that. Nor do I think it to be a bad or evil thing to believe that this power or potential comes from little ol' me. The power to love, the power to connect, create, and the boundless potential that comes with that.
Mine is a rum and coke....hold the rum.
Edited by lindyhopperLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.