Which is why the lawsuit would have been an excellent opportunity for those things to be exposed.
Which is why I question the "bravery" of the Allens.
I believe it would have indeed been brave to proceed with the lawsuit, to expose all these things in open court.
THAT is bravery. Not setting up an internet page and letting folks vent, then collecting mega money.
But money is sometimes too tempting to walk away from, isn't it?
Maybe the Allens were not trying to tear down TWI. Maybe they were trying to get back a Craig for his wrong doings.
I would be suspect of the Allens if they took ALL of twi to court and tried to tear the whole organization down when all they had to do was file a suit, take LCM out and settle out of court to cover the fact that they were unable to advance thier careers due to their twi commintment.
I would have done what the allens did. I hate TWI as much as anyone. But i think that as long as they are within the law that they should be able to exist and practice christianity any way they want.
Maybe the allens just wanted to "get in, have justice served and get out"
And as far as mega money..... How do you know how much it was???
But i guess you would have done it differently oldies.
What would oldies do?:
1. Never file the lawsuit, just deny that it ever happened at all. Convince himself that leadership was right and ask for forgivness?
or
2. File the lawsuit. Ask a bunch of Ex-followers to give thousands of dollars to try and settle a case that may have lasted years. Quit his job, then start having to live off the donations by people who dont even know him, but only want to see TWI taken out. Then if TWI doesn't get taken out (OJ got off anything can happen) have to live with the fact that you wasted a bunch of ppls money.
hell i dont know , neither do you,... we weren't in the situation.
oldies i read a lot of your posts, your smart and have good opinions, but to say the allens weren't brave because they didn't do what you wanted to do is silly.
You have to admit that it took a lot for the lady to come forward, and it took a lot for the husband to accept the situation and not go crazy. And it took a lot for them as a couple to stand up and be the first to really confront what was going on,
maybe they didn't handle it perfect, but it was still brave.
I imagine that it took a LOT of courage and decency to persue this through the legal system rather than taking it out on the perpetrators physically ..... as many would have been tempted to do if faced with similar betrayal by one`s minister, employer, and spiritual brother.
You know Oldies, you might think that all the Allens did was make accusations and then sit back with their website to get people to support them. I worked with them at HQ. I was there when they got booted. I know the lies that were told about them. They withstood a lot more BS than you will ever know. Paul had some HUGE cajones to do what he did, and obviously you don't even know the tip of the iceberg.
...and yet not being aprised of the facts...doesn`t prevent him from attempting to cast aspersions on their character, discredit their motives, and pass judgement <_<
I don`t recall Paul Allen asking you or any one else for a single penny or support oldies.
He provided a web site and filed a law suit that took the mighty twi down....the first!
God was at work, people were freed, the truth became public knowledge...twi incapasitated.....Paul and Fern were reimbersed for the atrocities committed against them.......it is really funny that you have a problem with such heroes.
It wasn't about the posters, though. It was the Allen's lawsuit. People didn't have to provide information if they didn't want to. Did Paul make promises to people? I don't know because I never got to see waydale until today. I can't blame them for settling because they wanted to move on with their lives. They must have been in turmoil for a long time. I couldn't imagine living in a state like that for so long.
You mention they settled for megabucks, but do you really know that?
You know it doesn't really matter how much they settled for. They were due compensation for the mental and physical pains caused to them. I think the most important thing is if twi learned a lesson from hiding the sins of the MOGs.
The only time I ever heard Rosa-lie speakup about the lawsuit was when she told the Staff at lunch that one of the newspapers lied about something concerning her. She just wanted to be sure we knew that because she knew the staff was running to the local stores to buy newspapers to try to find out all we weren't hearing. If the newspaper lied, why didn't she sue them?
Thank you so much for your letter of Reply ........... I was truly excited to see the front page again. As you have the whole site of Waydale at your fingertips and have spent much reading as well as talking with us, you know how much you and your site helped me.
I wrote never let them see you cry ................ But these are tears of true Joy, Longsuffering, and Happiness that I write for you finally putting it all aside ......... and also for helping us just as much as we helped you.
Oldies, go away, go study the lost, last teachings with Mike. He needs an oldy, moldy buddy.
Yeah, I remember when I first saw Waydale I was skeptical because I was still in. I ignored it at first but eventually it became such a hot site, all of us were loooking at it......all of us...including leaders who browsed it discreetly.
Eventually it also became an awesome place to reconnect with old friends from all over the planet. Before Waydale we only had snail mail. I found people I never thought I'd hear from again and they were not possessed and were not losers. In fact they were happy and healthy. Shock!
It was a first, really, and Paul was an experienced web designer who was preparing to do TWI's web site while he was on staff. Big mistake for them to alienate him.
Personally, I believe God had a lot to do with it. It was inevitable in my opinion.
Why doesn't TWI have an interactive site where believers could post their thoughts? Other christian groups and churches do it? Especially for the youth. What is there to hide? Couldn't do any harm now. Maybe it would help them.
waydale is the very first time i publicly mentioned what happend to me
and i also left there for almost a year (mini nervous breakdown) due to my own lack of how to handle the responses (sunbird et al.), which were, for the most part, tearing me to shreds for speaking such evil against the man of god
former researcher, orange cat, my hero, remember that ?
a lot more.... when i have time.... or courage.....
how long was that site up, a year-and-a-half ? and i left for 8 months or so ? i wonder if i'm confusing waydale with greasespot. no matter
You, Ex, were one of the ones we reconnected with. I had no idea how much it had affected you. You suffered more than most in TWI. And shame on those poop heads for doubting your story with VP. It was hard for them to accept it I suppose.
And these forums have also been great for making new friends. Like you Belle. (I'll be in Orlando soon, after Christmas. Big job starting there. Lets have lunch.)
Which is why the lawsuit would have been an excellent opportunity for those things to be exposed.
I agree, but the big bucks corporation of twi decided it would be face-saving and fiscally responsible
(NOW THERE'S AN OXYMORON FOR YOU)
to settle out of court.
Which is why I question the "bravery" of the Allens.
You weren't there (or were you?) According to every thing you have said in the past about allegations, etc., if you weren't there, you don't know if it happened. Stick to your premise.
I believe it would have indeed been brave to proceed with the lawsuit, to expose all these things in open court.
They did so. Fyi -- *proceeding with the lawsuit* is applicable to even getting the thing going, not just seeing the gavel fall, as you are suggesting.
THAT is bravery. Not setting up an internet page and letting folks vent, then collecting mega money.
But money is sometimes too tempting to walk away from, isn't it?
Money might be hard to walk away from. But if I read the posts right, they (the Allens) returned all donations received for travel expenses. What was NOT returned was what a judge declared they were entitled to, from a corrupt outfit, that took advantage of it's members.
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nandon
Maybe the Allens were not trying to tear down TWI. Maybe they were trying to get back a Craig for his wrong doings.
I would be suspect of the Allens if they took ALL of twi to court and tried to tear the whole organization down when all they had to do was file a suit, take LCM out and settle out of court to cover the fact that they were unable to advance thier careers due to their twi commintment.
I would have done what the allens did. I hate TWI as much as anyone. But i think that as long as they are within the law that they should be able to exist and practice christianity any way they want.
Maybe the allens just wanted to "get in, have justice served and get out"
And as far as mega money..... How do you know how much it was???
But i guess you would have done it differently oldies.
What would oldies do?:
1. Never file the lawsuit, just deny that it ever happened at all. Convince himself that leadership was right and ask for forgivness?
or
2. File the lawsuit. Ask a bunch of Ex-followers to give thousands of dollars to try and settle a case that may have lasted years. Quit his job, then start having to live off the donations by people who dont even know him, but only want to see TWI taken out. Then if TWI doesn't get taken out (OJ got off anything can happen) have to live with the fact that you wasted a bunch of ppls money.
hell i dont know , neither do you,... we weren't in the situation.
oldies i read a lot of your posts, your smart and have good opinions, but to say the allens weren't brave because they didn't do what you wanted to do is silly.
You have to admit that it took a lot for the lady to come forward, and it took a lot for the husband to accept the situation and not go crazy. And it took a lot for them as a couple to stand up and be the first to really confront what was going on,
maybe they didn't handle it perfect, but it was still brave.
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rascal
I imagine that it took a LOT of courage and decency to persue this through the legal system rather than taking it out on the perpetrators physically ..... as many would have been tempted to do if faced with similar betrayal by one`s minister, employer, and spiritual brother.
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Nottawayfer
You know Oldies, you might think that all the Allens did was make accusations and then sit back with their website to get people to support them. I worked with them at HQ. I was there when they got booted. I know the lies that were told about them. They withstood a lot more BS than you will ever know. Paul had some HUGE cajones to do what he did, and obviously you don't even know the tip of the iceberg.
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rascal
...and yet not being aprised of the facts...doesn`t prevent him from attempting to cast aspersions on their character, discredit their motives, and pass judgement <_<
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oldiesman
Why thank you, Nandon. :lol:
I'm not so sure. Not just what I wanted, but a whole lot of folks. Folks who post.
I think back and it comes to mind that many many folks were expecting the lawsuit to start.
I don't recall Paul Allen dissuading the idea of a lawsuit...all was proceeding toward a definite lawsuit.
Then at the last minute, they settle for megabucks.
TWI offered, and they took.
I don't know, just seems like many folks were *used* for the Allens own personal financial remuneration.
Posters seemed *used*, for the Allens own financial benefit.
I think some posters were very very upset with that, and even quit posting altogether because of it.
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rascal
I don`t recall Paul Allen asking you or any one else for a single penny or support oldies.
He provided a web site and filed a law suit that took the mighty twi down....the first!
God was at work, people were freed, the truth became public knowledge...twi incapasitated.....Paul and Fern were reimbersed for the atrocities committed against them.......it is really funny that you have a problem with such heroes.
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Nottawayfer
It wasn't about the posters, though. It was the Allen's lawsuit. People didn't have to provide information if they didn't want to. Did Paul make promises to people? I don't know because I never got to see waydale until today. I can't blame them for settling because they wanted to move on with their lives. They must have been in turmoil for a long time. I couldn't imagine living in a state like that for so long.
You mention they settled for megabucks, but do you really know that?
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oldiesman
How do you know that I was not apprised of the facts?
*double snort*
I do not know how much, only making an educated guess that it had to be at least 6 figures.
Rascal said it was millions...maybe she really knows. :lol:
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rascal
sop oldies....
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Nottawayfer
You know it doesn't really matter how much they settled for. They were due compensation for the mental and physical pains caused to them. I think the most important thing is if twi learned a lesson from hiding the sins of the MOGs.
The only time I ever heard Rosa-lie speakup about the lawsuit was when she told the Staff at lunch that one of the newspapers lied about something concerning her. She just wanted to be sure we knew that because she knew the staff was running to the local stores to buy newspapers to try to find out all we weren't hearing. If the newspaper lied, why didn't she sue them?
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Digitalis
Dearest Paul and Fern,
Thank you so much for your letter of Reply ........... I was truly excited to see the front page again. As you have the whole site of Waydale at your fingertips and have spent much reading as well as talking with us, you know how much you and your site helped me.
I wrote never let them see you cry ................ But these are tears of true Joy, Longsuffering, and Happiness that I write for you finally putting it all aside ......... and also for helping us just as much as we helped you.
Love you and forever in my heart,
Digi
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igotout
Oldies, go away, go study the lost, last teachings with Mike. He needs an oldy, moldy buddy.
Yeah, I remember when I first saw Waydale I was skeptical because I was still in. I ignored it at first but eventually it became such a hot site, all of us were loooking at it......all of us...including leaders who browsed it discreetly.
Eventually it also became an awesome place to reconnect with old friends from all over the planet. Before Waydale we only had snail mail. I found people I never thought I'd hear from again and they were not possessed and were not losers. In fact they were happy and healthy. Shock!
It was a first, really, and Paul was an experienced web designer who was preparing to do TWI's web site while he was on staff. Big mistake for them to alienate him.
Personally, I believe God had a lot to do with it. It was inevitable in my opinion.
Why doesn't TWI have an interactive site where believers could post their thoughts? Other christian groups and churches do it? Especially for the youth. What is there to hide? Couldn't do any harm now. Maybe it would help them.
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excathedra
waydale is the very first time i publicly mentioned what happend to me
and i also left there for almost a year (mini nervous breakdown) due to my own lack of how to handle the responses (sunbird et al.), which were, for the most part, tearing me to shreds for speaking such evil against the man of god
former researcher, orange cat, my hero, remember that ?
a lot more.... when i have time.... or courage.....
how long was that site up, a year-and-a-half ? and i left for 8 months or so ? i wonder if i'm confusing waydale with greasespot. no matter
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Belle
No matter is right, excie! I'm so glad you came back, cause I wasn't around WayDale when you were. :wub:
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igotout
You, Ex, were one of the ones we reconnected with. I had no idea how much it had affected you. You suffered more than most in TWI. And shame on those poop heads for doubting your story with VP. It was hard for them to accept it I suppose.
And these forums have also been great for making new friends. Like you Belle. (I'll be in Orlando soon, after Christmas. Big job starting there. Lets have lunch.)
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dmiller
(my comments in bold)
David
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