quote: I got a nice pair of cuffs and a horsewhip with your name on them. We'll play swat the fly .. you get to be the fly.
Oh, but I'M the one who gets off on others' pain?
quote: what in the heck do you make of THOSE WORDS ? i'm serious
I don't. They were never said to me. Like I said, VP is never going to appear before a court in this world. What closure do you expect by reliving this over and over again? How many times does someone have to agree with you that VP was a sleazebag before you can be peaceful again?
What IS possible is that at some point in the hereafter...some angel or even God Himself or whoever would handle that stuff, might read GSC posts to VPW and ask him what's up with that. Something like that could be....
Impossile... Not gonna happen. In fact, to quote the REAL Groucho Marx,
"That's the most rediculous thing I ever heard."
PLUS. It wasn't VP's words that changed your life, it was what you did that changed your life. So often people leave out that little, but OH so important piece of reality when defending somone they like who taught or mentored them. What YOU did changed your life.
What VPW DID changed Excie's life. You are giving VPW credit in YOUR life for what YOU did. What you are doing is a type of WORSHIP. Idol worship.
You don't realize this because "you don't know the scriptures, not the power of God."
Good gravy. Then you think that spitting on Excie...
Plus, you have literally DOZENS of avid supporters here who will drop everything and rush to your side at the slightest sign of discomfort. I don't play that role here.
... and insulting her friends is a part of the ROLE you play here?
You can speak positively of the positive things VP did or said without causing "even the slightest discomfort" to ANYONE he abused. You didn't because you JUST DON'T WANT TO. Any and ALL of his victims are fully aware of the fact that VP had some qualities in his life. You and the list of VPW supporters you list have demonstrated a disturbing pattern of behavior that allows you to personally attack anyone and everyone you feel had attacks VPW.
VPW, himself (who I knew personally) publickly admitted all over the country that last vialble years of his life,
"I WISH I WERE THE MAN I KNOW TO BE."
Just what in the world do YOU think he was referring to? The indominable sin nature that exists in ALL men?
BULLSH!%
He knew EXACTLY what he was talking about and to WHOM. However, it was, as the song says, "too much too little too late."... for too many.
If you could see past the end of your freaking nose for ONE minute, you'd surely see th at "your role here" is actually that of "bull in a china shop."
Who told you that? VPW? I'm not saying it IS going to happen for sure, but YOU don't know that it's not. Do you always misspell words when angry?
quote: You are giving VPW credit in YOUR life for what YOU did.
Well, DUH, putting PFAL together was something he DID that directly affected what I DID. Hellooooooo?
quote: You don't realize this because "you don't know the scriptures, not the power of God."
I've forgotten more scripture than you've ever learned in all your pompous arrogance.
quote: Then you think that spitting on Excie...
I spat on no one.
quote: ... and insulting her friends is a part of the ROLE you play here?
I wasn't insulting anybody; I merely stated a fact. Everybody plays a role here, and if your stupid assessment of my posts is china, then yes that's my role.
quote: Any other *earth-shattering* news you care to share???
Yes. I've posted this before on other threads, but this dispute is bigger than GSC. Politically correct is 2 things:
1) it is a subtle attempt to become America's "state religion"
2) it is a BLATANT attempt to attack the freedom of speech of 1) white 2) male 3) Christian and 4) conservatives.
If you're one of those four you will have problems, and if you're all 4 you might as well have a target painted on you. I've come to the conclusion these days that pretty much ANYTHING that I do or say is going to be offensive to SOMEBODY. In fact, every cell in my whole body is offensive to somebody as well......
(to the tune of 'Every sperm is sacred')
EVery cell is blasphemous, EVery cell is bad.
NONE of them are needed, they'll ONly make you mad
EVery cell is blasphemous, EVery cell is dissed
with EVery one that's living, God gets really ....ed.
Well, DUH, putting PFAL together was something he DID that directly affected what I DID. Hellooooooo?
[if putting PFAL together means
"initially reciting Leonard's class entirely,
then adding Stiles and Bullinger,"
then he "put it together."
I don't count that pre-fab approach as "putting together",
not when he does it, nor when I do it, nor anyone else.]
I've forgotten more scripture than you've ever learned in all your pompous arrogance.
[Right-THAT sentence was absent of "pompous arrogance."]
quote: Then you think that spitting on Excie...
I spat on no one.
[vpw's victims are targets for tirades of yours. That's not literal, nor does
it involve saliva. He could have completely destroyed their lives.
That he DIDN'T was NOT because he turned NICE....]
quote: ... and insulting her friends is a part of the ROLE you play here?
I wasn't insulting anybody; I merely stated a fact. Everybody plays a role here, and if your stupid assessment of my posts is china, then yes that's my role.
[Other "facts", I take it, were things like 'vpw ruins lives' taking
time away from possible pro-vpw posts?]
quote: Any other *earth-shattering* news you care to share???
Yes. I've posted this before on other threads, but this dispute is bigger than GSC. Politically correct is 2 things:
1) it is a subtle attempt to become America's "state religion"
2) it is a BLATANT attempt to attack the freedom of speech of 1) white 2) male 3) Christian and 4) conservatives.
[That's right-
we object to defending an unprincipled liar who raped people and
used the things of God for the lusts of the flesh, the lusts of the eyes,
and the pride of life,
because we object to your skin tone, gender, religion and political stance.
He's ON to us, people!
:blink: ]
I've come to the conclusion these days that pretty much ANYTHING that I do or say is going to be offensive to SOMEBODY.
[When what you say is a defense of a liar, rapist, molester, etc, etc,
and you do it in front of some of his victims,
you really increase the odds of people being offended by your comments.]
I've forgotten more scripture than you've ever learned in all your pompous arrogance.
Now there in COULD lie some of the problem....maybe the scripture you have forgotten was vitally important.......like how you treat you brethren....how you judge a false prophet .... how to identify a man of the flesh... how can you love God whom you can`t see when you cannot love these whom you can....love God love your neighbor.....adultery is wrong ....
John said: is a BLATANT attempt to attack the freedom of speech of 1) white 2) male 3) Christian and 4) conservatives.
ROFL...I cannot BELIEVE you are whining and pulling the *race card* THAT is pretty lame. I happen to be married to a guy who fits all four of those catagories and even INSPITE of being so *handicapped* STILL manages to behave as a gentleman .....many of my friends fit this catagoy as well......and would never dream of using this as an excuse to behave as you do.
I've come to the conclusion these days that pretty much ANYTHING that I do or say is going to be offensive to SOMEBODY.
Weeeeeell now, let`s examine that statement shall we? You have to work pretty darned hard to be completely offensive all of the time to somebody....maybe you need to work on your people skills?
Um - Johnjiam, I'm going to have to wiegh in here.
I don't know you - i've jsut read a lot of posts back and forth to you and from you. I'm not in any"clique" yet. (If the story of my like follows suit I won't be either - I'm just not a "clique" kind of girl )
I gotta say that you come off as a horse's arse - and THAT horse has blinders on.
I will correct statements made by you and others:
VPW didn't save your lfe, neither did you, neither would Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger or any other man - nor any other class. GOD saved your life through Jesus Christ.
Classes don't save lives, retreats don't save lives, programs don't save lives.
I'm not sure where the concept of political correctness came in - but I don't realy think it applies here. It seems like you are using the "ad hominum" attack in reverse so that you can come across as a victim. You aren't a victim here nor were you. I don't really think that Exie and other women need to "whine" in order to be healed. They are healed already. But it is possible to continue to remember a hurt long after the healing has happened. Since this is a forum, and the topic is what it is: if you don'tlike it well choose another topic. It seems like you came here looking to pick a fight - and now you're cornered and you're lashing out - and not doing very well at it either I might add.
Doojable, good points....God certainly has a variety of avenues at his disposal to reach us.....(guess that means I have joined your clique by agreeing with you :P )
John, your behavior certainly hasn`t fit that of a Christian, but then again, niether did that of a lot of people in twi.
What I have to wonder, is how Godly based were wierwille and his doctrine really ..... if it has assisted in dragging and keeping folks so far off of the Christian track.
A true Christian (I am speaking of wierwille now) just doesn`t have the willingness much less the desire to treat another with such visciousness and callous disregard of damage inflicted.
Read about how Jesus said that we would know one another ....... recognition had NOTHING to do with which requirements that we had fullfilled....
I think the alcoholism played a much higher role in his doctrinal organization than we realised.
Maybe all of that scripture learned is not necessarily a garantee of our spirituality? Just a point to consider.
Don't lose sleep Johniam, if one disagrees with some of the posters here..one is called a pr**k.
If one still holds on to PFAL beliefs one is called narrow minded.
If one talks about the creeping evil of political correctness including homophobia one is labelled an as*hole.
If one DARES talk about people getting over something that happened 20 years ago one is labelled an insensitive so and so..don't you get it Johniam..? these posters have got nothing TO MOVE ON TO.
I wish no ill on anyone. Putting me in the position of"spitting on someone" for having my opinion is just plain fighting dirty.
quote: VPW didn't save your lfe, neither did you, neither would Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger or any other man - nor any other class. GOD saved your life through Jesus Christ.
Ah, yes but VP ruined excie's life, not the devil. Why the double standard? I have nothing against Excathedra. I don't know her except for her posts. She's usually got a cheerful personality and a good sense of humor, especially on those corps threads, but when it comes to VP she's this hospice patient who never actually dies; not buying it. To tell the truth I think it's her supporters more than her; to them she's their poster child for all their rage against VPW and TWI and they got to keep propping her up as this "scarecrow" to ward off any possible praise for the good that VP did.
quote: these posters have got nothing TO MOVE ON TO.
You and only you yourself are the only one that placed your fanny in that position John dear.
You act like a complete a-- ....and then, rather than examine your actions....make the apropriate apologies ... act like a gentleman and a christian.....you try to assigne the blame for your foolishness upon everybody else.
Rather typical of twi contamination, to my way of thinking.
Further more, folks don`t need excathedra in order to be absolutely appalled, physically sickend and completely revolted by what vpw did. He earned our disgust all by himself.
The scriptures condemn him soundly and make abundantly clear that such as he...has NO...nada inheritance in the kingdome of heaven....must be some more of those scriptures that you have forgotten eh?
Hmm. Apparently I'm not the only one here who has problems with your pigheadedness. quote: rascal: Do you have any idea how offensive you are? You are speaking for others. You are telling others what happened to them (whether it happened or not). You are telling others what to think about it (whether they think it or not). You are telling people what they were exposed to (whether they were exposed to it or not). And, worst of all, you do a disservice to those who stumbled, those who fell, by telling them they can't get back up. To listen to you, anyone who experienced any misery while in TWI is stuck in it and with it forever. The only remedy, the only hope of redemption, is to wallow in vindictiveness, to destroy what you imagine destroyed you.
"The bitterness of drought." If that's where you are and want to stay, so be it. But don't drag me there with you, because I'm not going.
Consider this: There are people who were/are in TWI who listened to the same teachings you did and did not become "rampant fornicators and adulterers." They did not abuse their own or anyone else's children. And when "forced" to have an abortion, turn in a schedule, give more and more money, take more and more classes, they said "NO."
What made the difference, rascal? What was inside of that person that helped them rise above? What did they do to "get over it"? That's what this thread is about. It isn't yet another rehashing of all that is wrong, all that went wrong, all that was never right. It is a place for others to express the goodness they found there, IF they found it.
You can post on this thread if you want to, but you are going to hear MY opinion, too. I hope you're ready for that. Rascal, are you really that dense? Among other things, Laleo said in the opening post to this thread:
quote:
What are your success stories? (If you don't have one, this is not the thread for you. Move along, please.)
Or is common courtesy something you can't comprehend?
-------------- quote:
Originally posted by rascal:
Dense? hmmm probably :-)
Comprehend common courtesy? Apparently not :-)
Offensive? No doubt :-)
Will this stop me from posting my pov? Not likely :-)
The word for that is "harassment."
But it was ok for you and your buddies to make fun of Alan for misspelling and misusing words. Didn't see ya jumping to his defense when that was going on.
You are a bully rascal. And I am honestly just sick and tired of your crap so I called you on it. Too bad you didn't have enough class to just apologize to laleo and bow out of this thread.
------------------Rascal, on your praising or cursing thread, some people were posting things you didn't agree with. It was so important to you to keep the thread on topic in fact, that you posted the following to those posters who "helped" you keep it on topic:
quote:
Your help in keeping this thread on topic and support of attempts to express myself ..are aprecited
So when it's your thread, by golly it has to stay on topic, but you can't be courteous to someone else who want's to keep a thread THEY started on topic?
Oh, and by the way, the word is spelled appreciated.
--------------------
The work will wait while you show the child the rainbow. But the rainbow won't wait while you finish the work.
I hadn't intended to post to this thread, because I have little, if any, to say about the topic. But I do have something to say about what you're doing on this thread, Rascal.
You are doing the same thing, from the opposite direction, that you accuse (often rightly) oldiesman of doing on abuse threads.
Long Gone, thank you for bringing that up. That is EXACTLY what she is doing.
Rascal, calling me a "damned liar" is, I belive a personal attack. I may have been in error as I guess you didn't directly post any jabs to Alan about his misspelling.
But, since you started the personal attack, I belive I will call YOU a damned liar. I never said once that you approved of such tactics. I said I didn't see you jumping to his defense.
As far as apologizing, It will be a cold day in hell before I apologize to a bully like you. I was mistaken...you did not make jabs at Alan. But see, your words were said in a bullying way, and you will not "bully" an apology out of me.
You spewed:
quote:
You are a damned liar BMan, it is YOU who owe ME an apology, not that I`d expect any.
Just what the hell's up with that anyway? That little "not that I'd expect any" makes it sound like you know something about me when you don't know jack **** about me. Nice little tactic Rascal...make people think you know me and that I'm not man enough to make an apology. Wow, your a real piece of work.
Now this thread is not about you, nor is it about me so I am not going to post anymore to you here. Go ahead, have the last word. As I have seen in the past, this will continue till you get it so I'm done. Have fun!
Johniam and Allan both provide the classic examples of the kind of fake and fraudulant religion, the kind that makes big promises of deliverance and power, and yet winds up screwing people. Yet when their fraudulance is called for what it is, they get anal as hell, and act like they are persecuted by none less than the devil himself.
Since VPW is the best that they can provide for an example of ((cough)) 'godly leadership' that they remain blindly loyal to, they can do nothing else than lash out and degrade the detractors, even including the people who were hurt by VPW himself. ... Cause that's all they have to come back with.
Garth, if you ever had anything positive to say, I might listen.
I've well and truly moved on from VPW although I remain thankful for what he taught.
My new 'Christian hero' is Chris Pringle a true blue 'xxxx gold can' (it's a beer) on the forehead crushing(spiritually speaking) hot preaching kind of a guy.
I'm sorry but I'm just not that pretendy lovey dovey tip toe through the tulips kind of a 'Rascally' sort of a guy.
Gee, I'm sorry, but I thought that nailing blind defenders of fraudulant religious leaders for what they are IS a rather positive thing to do. I mean, if you identify a harmful in-duh-vidual AS a harmful in-duh-vidual, then you have done a POSITIVE thing for others.
Wouldn't you agree?
And if you are so 'over' Wierwille, like your buddy Johniam, then why does it matter to either of you that there are those revealing the crap that has happened under Wierwille, particularly since doing so back when he was alive would have gotten them kicked out of TWI, hmmmm?
No offense to anyone here but...my business is doing so good right now, that I do not have time to post on this thread. Matter of fact, I have no interest in this thread at all. So please, do not post quotes that I have made on another thread here. I have not posted on this thread. I do not want to be a part of this thread.
Again, no offense to anyone on this thread...I just do not have time to post here, to defend myself here, etc. So please leave me out of it, ok?
If one DARES talk about people getting over something that happened 20 years ago one is labelled an insensitive so and so..don't you get it Johniam..? these posters have got nothing TO MOVE ON TO.
Umm this might seem a bit obvious -but the time it takes to post on even TEN threads here leaves plenty of time to live a life and move on.
Allan and Johnjiam et al: I think you severely underestimate the effect that sexual abuse has on a person - I'll leave room for a man to get sexually abused as well. One can move on but still have a missing part of the past to contend with. I know this to a much lesser extent than Exie and some of the other women who post here.
Ultimately, it really doesn't matter who's right or wrong here - because this seems to have become a pi$$ing match. None of this is somethng that God would be proud of. You guys treat each other like dirt and then wrap yourselves up in scripture and "righteous indignation" to justify it. ( I guess I've just eliminated any cliques that might have wanted ME around - huh)
Allan and Johnjiam - play nice you can get your point across without stooping to foul play.
Rascal et al - you're better than this (I believe)- play nice too
This reads like a schoolyard fight and at this point no one knows who's right and who's wrong - all anyone knows is that THEY NEED TO BE HEARD!!!!!
Weirwille and a lot of his cronies did wrong to a lot of people. FINAL! If it still hurts and they want to talk about it - what difference is it to you? I wasn't hurt in the same way - but eventually I was hurt. I wouldn't really even tolk about it much - and I'm not going into it anymore. But that doesn't negate what these others are feeling.
You say it didn't happen to you - Woo HOOOOOOOOO! (That's rejoicing - not sarcasm) If you don't like what they have to say, don't read it. Just because you're tired of reading it doesnt' mean they are over it. Neither does it mean that they don't have a life - its just not YOU"RE life.
I don't know - and I'm not accusing - but one could believe that thou dost protest too much.....
quote: I've forgotten more scripture than you've ever learned in all your pompous arrogance.
[Right-THAT sentence was absent of "pompous arrogance."]
Rush Limbaugh calls this 'demonstrating absurdity by being absurd'. I mean, c'mon. The guy looks down his nose at me and says I don't know the scriptures or the power of God? I had to come back with SOMETHING.
quote: He's on to us, people.
That's RIGHT!!! I'm ON TO YOU! Be afraid! Be very afraid!
Rascal, do you have any idea how offensive you are? Aw, c'mon...smile.
Um John (ie Mr Pot) this is Mr Kettle - I'm calling to tell you - well you know...
Now name calling doesn't negate your wrong - and you know it.
You can't have it both ways. You cannot eat your cake and have it too. If you want to talk about how much scripture you know then you also have to show that you know HOW TO OBEY IT!!!!! other wise it really doesn't matter what you know - or how much you've forgotten. Besides - that's an unproveable statement.
It seems that once rascal laid off of you, you turned your attack onto someone else - Do you just live to fight? Come on - surely you have better ways to use all that scripture you know - the stuff you haven't forgotten - than to tear down a fellow believer. All this knowledge and intellect and you resort to name calling and schoolyard politics?? TSK TSK
Now the subject was: How many TWI leaders follow the sex doctrine of VPW? Do have something to add to that? If not then why wear yourself out with all this broo ha ha? It comes across as a"Bait and switch" - you bait the posters and switch the topics. What's up with that?
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excathedra
the annoying interruption, by the way, is my life
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frank123lol
No one should be abused no matter what or how "good" his intentions were,it still is wrong.
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johniam
quote: I got a nice pair of cuffs and a horsewhip with your name on them. We'll play swat the fly .. you get to be the fly.
Oh, but I'M the one who gets off on others' pain?
quote: what in the heck do you make of THOSE WORDS ? i'm serious
I don't. They were never said to me. Like I said, VP is never going to appear before a court in this world. What closure do you expect by reliving this over and over again? How many times does someone have to agree with you that VP was a sleazebag before you can be peaceful again?
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dmiller
I guess not, eh????
You weren't a woman. You were *safe*.
Any other *earth-shattering* news you care to share???
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HCW
"That's the most rediculous thing I ever heard."
PLUS. It wasn't VP's words that changed your life, it was what you did that changed your life. So often people leave out that little, but OH so important piece of reality when defending somone they like who taught or mentored them. What YOU did changed your life.
What VPW DID changed Excie's life. You are giving VPW credit in YOUR life for what YOU did. What you are doing is a type of WORSHIP. Idol worship.
You don't realize this because "you don't know the scriptures, not the power of God."
Good gravy. Then you think that spitting on Excie...
... and insulting her friends is a part of the ROLE you play here?You can speak positively of the positive things VP did or said without causing "even the slightest discomfort" to ANYONE he abused. You didn't because you JUST DON'T WANT TO. Any and ALL of his victims are fully aware of the fact that VP had some qualities in his life. You and the list of VPW supporters you list have demonstrated a disturbing pattern of behavior that allows you to personally attack anyone and everyone you feel had attacks VPW.
VPW, himself (who I knew personally) publickly admitted all over the country that last vialble years of his life,
"I WISH I WERE THE MAN I KNOW TO BE."
Just what in the world do YOU think he was referring to? The indominable sin nature that exists in ALL men?
BULLSH!%
He knew EXACTLY what he was talking about and to WHOM. However, it was, as the song says, "too much too little too late."... for too many.
If you could see past the end of your freaking nose for ONE minute, you'd surely see th at "your role here" is actually that of "bull in a china shop."
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johniam
quote: Impossile... Not gonna happen.
Who told you that? VPW? I'm not saying it IS going to happen for sure, but YOU don't know that it's not. Do you always misspell words when angry?
quote: You are giving VPW credit in YOUR life for what YOU did.
Well, DUH, putting PFAL together was something he DID that directly affected what I DID. Hellooooooo?
quote: You don't realize this because "you don't know the scriptures, not the power of God."
I've forgotten more scripture than you've ever learned in all your pompous arrogance.
quote: Then you think that spitting on Excie...
I spat on no one.
quote: ... and insulting her friends is a part of the ROLE you play here?
I wasn't insulting anybody; I merely stated a fact. Everybody plays a role here, and if your stupid assessment of my posts is china, then yes that's my role.
quote: Any other *earth-shattering* news you care to share???
Yes. I've posted this before on other threads, but this dispute is bigger than GSC. Politically correct is 2 things:
1) it is a subtle attempt to become America's "state religion"
2) it is a BLATANT attempt to attack the freedom of speech of 1) white 2) male 3) Christian and 4) conservatives.
If you're one of those four you will have problems, and if you're all 4 you might as well have a target painted on you. I've come to the conclusion these days that pretty much ANYTHING that I do or say is going to be offensive to SOMEBODY. In fact, every cell in my whole body is offensive to somebody as well......
(to the tune of 'Every sperm is sacred')
EVery cell is blasphemous, EVery cell is bad.
NONE of them are needed, they'll ONly make you mad
EVery cell is blasphemous, EVery cell is dissed
with EVery one that's living, God gets really ....ed.
How's that, D?
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WordWolf
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rascal
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doojable
Um - Johnjiam, I'm going to have to wiegh in here.
I don't know you - i've jsut read a lot of posts back and forth to you and from you. I'm not in any"clique" yet. (If the story of my like follows suit I won't be either - I'm just not a "clique" kind of girl )
I gotta say that you come off as a horse's arse - and THAT horse has blinders on.
I will correct statements made by you and others:
VPW didn't save your lfe, neither did you, neither would Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger or any other man - nor any other class. GOD saved your life through Jesus Christ.
Classes don't save lives, retreats don't save lives, programs don't save lives.
I'm not sure where the concept of political correctness came in - but I don't realy think it applies here. It seems like you are using the "ad hominum" attack in reverse so that you can come across as a victim. You aren't a victim here nor were you. I don't really think that Exie and other women need to "whine" in order to be healed. They are healed already. But it is possible to continue to remember a hurt long after the healing has happened. Since this is a forum, and the topic is what it is: if you don'tlike it well choose another topic. It seems like you came here looking to pick a fight - and now you're cornered and you're lashing out - and not doing very well at it either I might add.
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rascal
Doojable, good points....God certainly has a variety of avenues at his disposal to reach us.....(guess that means I have joined your clique by agreeing with you :P )
John, your behavior certainly hasn`t fit that of a Christian, but then again, niether did that of a lot of people in twi.
What I have to wonder, is how Godly based were wierwille and his doctrine really ..... if it has assisted in dragging and keeping folks so far off of the Christian track.
A true Christian (I am speaking of wierwille now) just doesn`t have the willingness much less the desire to treat another with such visciousness and callous disregard of damage inflicted.
Read about how Jesus said that we would know one another ....... recognition had NOTHING to do with which requirements that we had fullfilled....
I think the alcoholism played a much higher role in his doctrinal organization than we realised.
Maybe all of that scripture learned is not necessarily a garantee of our spirituality? Just a point to consider.
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Allan
Don't lose sleep Johniam, if one disagrees with some of the posters here..one is called a pr**k.
If one still holds on to PFAL beliefs one is called narrow minded.
If one talks about the creeping evil of political correctness including homophobia one is labelled an as*hole.
If one DARES talk about people getting over something that happened 20 years ago one is labelled an insensitive so and so..don't you get it Johniam..? these posters have got nothing TO MOVE ON TO.
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rascal
Ahhh yet ANOTHER outstanding demonstration of compassionate Christian brotherly love
Why I believe that I can even detect the hand of Godbehind what you wrote....
Let me be the first to say that you and John are an inspration to Christians everywhere.
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johniam
I wish no ill on anyone. Putting me in the position of"spitting on someone" for having my opinion is just plain fighting dirty.
quote: VPW didn't save your lfe, neither did you, neither would Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger or any other man - nor any other class. GOD saved your life through Jesus Christ.
Ah, yes but VP ruined excie's life, not the devil. Why the double standard? I have nothing against Excathedra. I don't know her except for her posts. She's usually got a cheerful personality and a good sense of humor, especially on those corps threads, but when it comes to VP she's this hospice patient who never actually dies; not buying it. To tell the truth I think it's her supporters more than her; to them she's their poster child for all their rage against VPW and TWI and they got to keep propping her up as this "scarecrow" to ward off any possible praise for the good that VP did.
quote: these posters have got nothing TO MOVE ON TO.
Very sad.
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rascal
You and only you yourself are the only one that placed your fanny in that position John dear.
You act like a complete a-- ....and then, rather than examine your actions....make the apropriate apologies ... act like a gentleman and a christian.....you try to assigne the blame for your foolishness upon everybody else.
Rather typical of twi contamination, to my way of thinking.
Further more, folks don`t need excathedra in order to be absolutely appalled, physically sickend and completely revolted by what vpw did. He earned our disgust all by himself.
The scriptures condemn him soundly and make abundantly clear that such as he...has NO...nada inheritance in the kingdome of heaven....must be some more of those scriptures that you have forgotten eh?
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johniam
Hmm. Apparently I'm not the only one here who has problems with your pigheadedness. quote: rascal: Do you have any idea how offensive you are? You are speaking for others. You are telling others what happened to them (whether it happened or not). You are telling others what to think about it (whether they think it or not). You are telling people what they were exposed to (whether they were exposed to it or not). And, worst of all, you do a disservice to those who stumbled, those who fell, by telling them they can't get back up. To listen to you, anyone who experienced any misery while in TWI is stuck in it and with it forever. The only remedy, the only hope of redemption, is to wallow in vindictiveness, to destroy what you imagine destroyed you.
"The bitterness of drought." If that's where you are and want to stay, so be it. But don't drag me there with you, because I'm not going.
Consider this: There are people who were/are in TWI who listened to the same teachings you did and did not become "rampant fornicators and adulterers." They did not abuse their own or anyone else's children. And when "forced" to have an abortion, turn in a schedule, give more and more money, take more and more classes, they said "NO."
What made the difference, rascal? What was inside of that person that helped them rise above? What did they do to "get over it"? That's what this thread is about. It isn't yet another rehashing of all that is wrong, all that went wrong, all that was never right. It is a place for others to express the goodness they found there, IF they found it.
You can post on this thread if you want to, but you are going to hear MY opinion, too. I hope you're ready for that. Rascal, are you really that dense? Among other things, Laleo said in the opening post to this thread:
quote:
What are your success stories? (If you don't have one, this is not the thread for you. Move along, please.)
Or is common courtesy something you can't comprehend?
-------------- quote:
Originally posted by rascal:
Dense? hmmm probably :-)
Comprehend common courtesy? Apparently not :-)
Offensive? No doubt :-)
Will this stop me from posting my pov? Not likely :-)
The word for that is "harassment."
But it was ok for you and your buddies to make fun of Alan for misspelling and misusing words. Didn't see ya jumping to his defense when that was going on.
You are a bully rascal. And I am honestly just sick and tired of your crap so I called you on it. Too bad you didn't have enough class to just apologize to laleo and bow out of this thread.
------------------Rascal, on your praising or cursing thread, some people were posting things you didn't agree with. It was so important to you to keep the thread on topic in fact, that you posted the following to those posters who "helped" you keep it on topic:
quote:
Your help in keeping this thread on topic and support of attempts to express myself ..are aprecited
So when it's your thread, by golly it has to stay on topic, but you can't be courteous to someone else who want's to keep a thread THEY started on topic?
Oh, and by the way, the word is spelled appreciated.
--------------------
The work will wait while you show the child the rainbow. But the rainbow won't wait while you finish the work.
I hadn't intended to post to this thread, because I have little, if any, to say about the topic. But I do have something to say about what you're doing on this thread, Rascal.
You are doing the same thing, from the opposite direction, that you accuse (often rightly) oldiesman of doing on abuse threads.
Long Gone, thank you for bringing that up. That is EXACTLY what she is doing.
Rascal, calling me a "damned liar" is, I belive a personal attack. I may have been in error as I guess you didn't directly post any jabs to Alan about his misspelling.
But, since you started the personal attack, I belive I will call YOU a damned liar. I never said once that you approved of such tactics. I said I didn't see you jumping to his defense.
As far as apologizing, It will be a cold day in hell before I apologize to a bully like you. I was mistaken...you did not make jabs at Alan. But see, your words were said in a bullying way, and you will not "bully" an apology out of me.
You spewed:
quote:
You are a damned liar BMan, it is YOU who owe ME an apology, not that I`d expect any.
Just what the hell's up with that anyway? That little "not that I'd expect any" makes it sound like you know something about me when you don't know jack **** about me. Nice little tactic Rascal...make people think you know me and that I'm not man enough to make an apology. Wow, your a real piece of work.
Now this thread is not about you, nor is it about me so I am not going to post anymore to you here. Go ahead, have the last word. As I have seen in the past, this will continue till you get it so I'm done. Have fun!
--------------------
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rascal
oooh man....I think that I just got *clocked* as I deserved :o
Oh I wish I hadn`t MADE you do that John.
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GarthP2000
Johniam and Allan both provide the classic examples of the kind of fake and fraudulant religion, the kind that makes big promises of deliverance and power, and yet winds up screwing people. Yet when their fraudulance is called for what it is, they get anal as hell, and act like they are persecuted by none less than the devil himself.
Since VPW is the best that they can provide for an example of ((cough)) 'godly leadership' that they remain blindly loyal to, they can do nothing else than lash out and degrade the detractors, even including the people who were hurt by VPW himself. ... Cause that's all they have to come back with.
Power for abundant living my a**!!
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Allan
Garth, if you ever had anything positive to say, I might listen.
I've well and truly moved on from VPW although I remain thankful for what he taught.
My new 'Christian hero' is Chris Pringle a true blue 'xxxx gold can' (it's a beer) on the forehead crushing(spiritually speaking) hot preaching kind of a guy.
I'm sorry but I'm just not that pretendy lovey dovey tip toe through the tulips kind of a 'Rascally' sort of a guy.
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GarthP2000
Gee, I'm sorry, but I thought that nailing blind defenders of fraudulant religious leaders for what they are IS a rather positive thing to do. I mean, if you identify a harmful in-duh-vidual AS a harmful in-duh-vidual, then you have done a POSITIVE thing for others.
Wouldn't you agree?
And if you are so 'over' Wierwille, like your buddy Johniam, then why does it matter to either of you that there are those revealing the crap that has happened under Wierwille, particularly since doing so back when he was alive would have gotten them kicked out of TWI, hmmmm?
So why don't you let it go?
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Bluzeman
No offense to anyone here but...my business is doing so good right now, that I do not have time to post on this thread. Matter of fact, I have no interest in this thread at all. So please, do not post quotes that I have made on another thread here. I have not posted on this thread. I do not want to be a part of this thread.
Again, no offense to anyone on this thread...I just do not have time to post here, to defend myself here, etc. So please leave me out of it, ok?
Thanks! :)
Rick
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doojable
Allan wrote:
If one DARES talk about people getting over something that happened 20 years ago one is labelled an insensitive so and so..don't you get it Johniam..? these posters have got nothing TO MOVE ON TO.
Umm this might seem a bit obvious -but the time it takes to post on even TEN threads here leaves plenty of time to live a life and move on.
Allan and Johnjiam et al: I think you severely underestimate the effect that sexual abuse has on a person - I'll leave room for a man to get sexually abused as well. One can move on but still have a missing part of the past to contend with. I know this to a much lesser extent than Exie and some of the other women who post here.
Ultimately, it really doesn't matter who's right or wrong here - because this seems to have become a pi$$ing match. None of this is somethng that God would be proud of. You guys treat each other like dirt and then wrap yourselves up in scripture and "righteous indignation" to justify it. ( I guess I've just eliminated any cliques that might have wanted ME around - huh)
Allan and Johnjiam - play nice you can get your point across without stooping to foul play.
Rascal et al - you're better than this (I believe)- play nice too
This reads like a schoolyard fight and at this point no one knows who's right and who's wrong - all anyone knows is that THEY NEED TO BE HEARD!!!!!
Weirwille and a lot of his cronies did wrong to a lot of people. FINAL! If it still hurts and they want to talk about it - what difference is it to you? I wasn't hurt in the same way - but eventually I was hurt. I wouldn't really even tolk about it much - and I'm not going into it anymore. But that doesn't negate what these others are feeling.
You say it didn't happen to you - Woo HOOOOOOOOO! (That's rejoicing - not sarcasm) If you don't like what they have to say, don't read it. Just because you're tired of reading it doesnt' mean they are over it. Neither does it mean that they don't have a life - its just not YOU"RE life.
I don't know - and I'm not accusing - but one could believe that thou dost protest too much.....
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rascal
......... but maaaawum (said in my best 5yr old`s whine) HE did it first! :P
lol point taken..... you have to understand though, it isn`t necessarily even the subject at hand.....John has been disgusted with me for years.
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johniam
quote: I've forgotten more scripture than you've ever learned in all your pompous arrogance.
[Right-THAT sentence was absent of "pompous arrogance."]
Rush Limbaugh calls this 'demonstrating absurdity by being absurd'. I mean, c'mon. The guy looks down his nose at me and says I don't know the scriptures or the power of God? I had to come back with SOMETHING.
quote: He's on to us, people.
That's RIGHT!!! I'm ON TO YOU! Be afraid! Be very afraid!
Rascal, do you have any idea how offensive you are? Aw, c'mon...smile.
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doojable
Um John (ie Mr Pot) this is Mr Kettle - I'm calling to tell you - well you know...
Now name calling doesn't negate your wrong - and you know it.
You can't have it both ways. You cannot eat your cake and have it too. If you want to talk about how much scripture you know then you also have to show that you know HOW TO OBEY IT!!!!! other wise it really doesn't matter what you know - or how much you've forgotten. Besides - that's an unproveable statement.
It seems that once rascal laid off of you, you turned your attack onto someone else - Do you just live to fight? Come on - surely you have better ways to use all that scripture you know - the stuff you haven't forgotten - than to tear down a fellow believer. All this knowledge and intellect and you resort to name calling and schoolyard politics?? TSK TSK
Now the subject was: How many TWI leaders follow the sex doctrine of VPW? Do have something to add to that? If not then why wear yourself out with all this broo ha ha? It comes across as a"Bait and switch" - you bait the posters and switch the topics. What's up with that?
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