OK: nuclear weapons??! That is going way beyond any line I know of-at least before 1982. Come on! Yes, there was some wackiness in the seventies and early eighties. There was a huge push in the Tenth Corp one block where we had to stockpile food, water, weapons, and odd survival gear: I remember it clearly because I couldn't find enough people out in the real world, even my sponsors, who could pony up the extra money we each needed to get the supplies, I never heard any of the conspiricy talk directly from VPW, only from the Corps leadership. Nobody liked us-we were the ememy-we would be the targets in any attempted takeover by a foreign government, etc., etc. Our weapons training amounted to shooting a rifle and a shotgun at a practice range. After that wild ride-and yes it was scary at the time-nothing seemed to come of it, and things returned to normal(?) soon enough. Was all that part of the Corps training as advertised-no. Was it written down somewhere-no. Did it happen-oh, yeah. But the emphasis was on training in the Word-not starting a war. Let's not make VPW as a warmonger: whatever his faults (and they were there, I will conceed) he was not the insane cult leader you're try to make him out to be. If anything, he was responding-or his people were overracting-to the situation of the times we were living in.
who alleged that TWI had interest in a acquiring nuclear weapons? members? locals? the agencies? you?
JKB do you have copies of said documents? post them! You say they have info on this period of time in TWI, Do they give evidence of the pursuit of nuclear weapons?
Be it far from me to give a dang about covering for tWI, but you are asking us to believe this statement based on your post? what is this, an attempt to get Bush to attack new knoxville? The intelligence on them is about as valid as it was on Iraq.
at one time it was alleged that VPW / TWI had an interest in acquiring nuclear weapons. Some of the above listed federal agencies appear to have information in their files regarding this chapter in TWI history, as well as the Dept. of the Navy.
Anything can be alleged by anybody at any time: many good men and women's lives have been ruined by people alleging things they had no clue about: speculation and half-truths may sell at lot of papers, but people who buy them are just compounding the problem. You have provided some invaluable information in recent weeks: let's not pollute it with garbage like this! ;) ;)
Get the quoting right topoftheworld. I NEVER said that TWI had an interest in obtaining nuclear weapons. JKBoheme quoted a post of mine and used it as a basis for discussing TWI's interest in weapons but my post mentioned NOTHING about nukes.
Get the quoting right HAPe4me. I NEVER said that TWI had an interest in obtaining nuclear weapons. JKBoheme quoted a post of mine and used it as a basis for discussing TWI's interest in weapons but my post mentioned NOTHING about nukes.
Unless my eyes are getting older than I think they are, HAP did not refer in the least to you (diazbro). Hap was, I think, pointing out that JKB brought up the subject, with the vague "at one time it was alleged" without even hinting who alleged such. I think you meant to refer to topoftheworld, and even then I think TOTW just deleted the unwanted part of the quote too quickly, appearing to connect you to the statement. Understandable for you to correct, but I know I am capable of such a goof. (I dount it was intentional).
Okay you are correct. It was top of the world. So I'll get MY quoting right. Also neither do I think it was intentional but I don't think that any of us want to
be misconstrued as saying something that we know we didn't especially if we are talking about something as serious as nuclear weaponry. I never mentioned anything about nukes and I would like him to edit his post to reflect that.
It says "Per diazbro":
Per diazbro (from the 1976 timeframe thread...):
at one time it was alleged that VPW / TWI had an interest in acquiring nuclear weapons. Some of the above listed federal agencies appear to have information in their files regarding this chapter in TWI history, as well as the Dept. of the Navy.
...and I'm sure I'm capable of getting a name wrong when I'm in a rush. and I don't blame you at all for not wanting to be incorrectly associated with such a statement...or anything incorrectly quoted, but this one does seem to be particularly rather far out. Which is why, IMHO, it would be interesting to know who made such allegations, if anyone did.
My optical scanner has a gremlin so I am going to just relate the pertinent info of the FIOPA {Freedom of Information & Privacy Act} that is available.
The original FBI document is dated August 23, 1977. I don’t know what the following classifications indicate but will just list it here.
FOIPA No. 0997927-000
CVO375 2351622Z
RR HQ BA CI HI
R 231620Z
FM Cleveland (117-80)
To Director Routine
Baltimore Routine
Cincinnati Routine
Honolulu Routine
BT
Clear
The enclosed documents were reviewed under the Freedom of Information/Privacy Acts (FOIPA), Title 5, United States Code, Section 552/552a. Deletions have been made to protect information which is exempt from disclosure, with the appropriate exemptions noted on the page next to the excision. In addition, a deleted page information sheet was inserted in the file to indicate where pages were withheld entirely. The exemptions used to withhold information are marked below and explained on the enclosed Form OPCA-16a.
131 pages were reviewed and 112 pages are being released. Documents were located which originated with, or contained information concerning other Government agencies [OGA]. This information has been referred to OGA for review and direct response.
DMH, Section Chief
Record/Information Dissemination Section
Records Management Division
Alleged plot by organization “Way International” Founder Victor Paul Wierwille to explode nuclear bomb, AEA, 00 : Cleveland.
Re Baltimore teletype to Director, August 18,1977.
Cleveland Division has in the past conducted several investigations involving the “Way International”, New Knoxville, Ohio. Victor Wierwille is almost totally inaccessible for interview and is surrounded by corporate attorneys who in the past have been hostile towards the Bureau. It is believed that with no more details than Baltimore has provided regarding the building of a nuclear weapon by the “Way International” a productive interview with Wierwille is impossible at this time.
If allegation re nuclear weapon is true, Cleveland will obtain authorization from AUSA, Ohio, for Federal prosecution and would be interested in recovering atomic material from the “Way International” and xxxxxxxxx [jkb note: this is apparently how the FBI protects via FOIPA the identity of some of the parties involved]. An interview by Cleveland at this time would alert subject to Bureau’s interest and knowledge and would make subsequent investigation and prosecution more viscous.
Baltimorexxxxxxxxxxx Maryland, re-interview source and determine pertinent details re his knowledge of xxxxxxx to include identity and location. Additionally, determine where bomb is being constructed and any other pertinent details. As info may later be testimony, provide Cleveland with FD 302 re interview.
Baltimore should protect Baltimore source as informant in this matter.
Cleveland at New Knoxville3, Ohio, upon receipt of additional info re identity of xxxxxxx and location re nuclear device allegedly being constructed, will interview Victor Paul Wierwille re his knowledge. If a valid violation of Federal law is apparent, present matter to AUSA, Toledo, Ohio, for his prosecutive opinion.
On August18,1977, a source, whose reliability has not been established, advised that the has associated with the “Way International” for approximately xxxx years and associated with them while attending xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. He described the organization as a Christian cult founded by Victor Paul Wierwille, who believes himself to be a prophet. He recently attended the Rock of Ages Festival in Sidney, Ohio, where approximately 14,000 people attended at the fairgrounds. This festival was attended by the Word Over the World (WOW) members, who have gone out and recruited new members.
Source appears to be very intelligent and believes honestly that the organization has the potential for developing a bomb. He stated that many members are in the military services and would do any directive for the “Way International” and believes there are currently 50,000 members.
Diazbro: My cut and paste efforts inadvertently gave you a headache: my apologies. My comment was intended for jkboehme on the comments he made, not you. I will be more careful in the future.
Lifted Up: Thanks for the correction, and yes, it was a boo-boo on my part.
jkboehme: I stand by my point, which was the use of the word "Alleged"-the report itself makes it clear the the "source" had not been determined to be credible: if it was determined at some later point to be credible, and there is something to the story, where is the follow-up? So far, all they had was a description of the Rock. Yes, there were potentials for bomb's to be created, but not the "Nuclear" kind.
but i was at emporia and placed in a group where we would go underground or in the wilderness or something "together" we might start out with a full tank of gas but we would end up on foot
we bought silk sea sponges for tampons (gross) you wash them out and reuse them
i had to find a place we would go but i couldn't tell the person about the secret of why we were coming (some takeover or end of the world)
so i called my dear dear friend and sponsor. she had a farm and i thought that would be a good place
when i called her, i said something like, can we come there? and she was like, what ? who ? when ? i said i can't tell you, but can we come there ? she loved me enough to say yes but what in the hell could she be thinking ? i said something like, i can't tell you, but trust me
ohmygod this is too weird
i also had a very expensive backpack called a malpack - more abundant living pack or something like that - i always get it wrong, not good with those abbreviations. i had candles and rope and all kinds of stuff that i did not know how to use
in my mind i was saying - when the enemy comes for my death, you know the word or whatever the alternative was, i'm going to say, shoot me now..... i'm not a good survivor
they were talking about seeing your mother eating out of a garbage can and somehow that was related to your commitment to the word but i forget
it was too creepy
i think i blocked it, especially the part about my dear mother
The principal concern that I had seen was with connections between domestic groups and overseas groups, where the overseas groups might use the domestic groups as facilitators to import and use WMDs. Having said that, I didn't see such a connection made involving right-wing militia groups at all. (At the time, the principle concern in this area was a left-wing group in the states having contact with a group overseas that was a front for the Speznaz -- when I was working that stuff, it was long before the OKC bombing)
But keep in mind that there are a lot of people who talk really "big" and this is not to say that somebody might not have heard rumors within TWI that they might not have boasted about something that had no basis in reality (of course, we all KNOW that nobody in TWI exaggerated at all, now don't we? :blink: ) and a person, hearing it for the first time, may have taken it seriously and then done his/her civic duty and reported it to the FBI.
If the FBI gets any kind of word on this type of subject, they are going to check it out -- they have to -- if, for no other reason, to verify that it isn't credible. According to the message you extracted, that was the conclusion -- that the report was found to be not credible.
Now apparently you have 111 more pages of FOIA'd documents: if there is something of interest in any of those other pages, I'd be happy to see it..
Alleged plot by organization “Way International” founder Victor Paul Wierwille to explode nuclear bomb; AEA, 00: Cleveland.
Re Honolulu teletypes to Bureau, October 11, 1977 & October 12, 1977
Baltimore & Cleveland disregard request re advisability of contacting xxxxx. Xxxxx contacted FBI, AGANA, Guam requesting to furnish information in this matter.
Xxxxx in company of xxxxx was interviewed at the Naval Investigative Service Office, Naval Air Station, Guam, on October 19, 1977.
Xxxxx is an active member of WOW & spent some time attempting to proselytize the interviewing agent.
Xxxxx speculated that misinformation about the bomb could have come from xxxxx, indicating that at the conversation in the trailer, only he and xxxxx were privy to statements made by xxxxx. No comment was made as to the source of information.
Cleveland may wish to consider requesting Baltimore to contact its source to determine the identity of other persons present at the conversation. Cleveland may also wish to consider recontacting this same source to determine any specific statements xxxxx recalls xxxxx or xxxxx making which led xxxxx to believe that the project on which xxxxx is working is an atomic bomb rather than some other energy device.
Subj: NAVSUBASE New London Groton CT / Proselytizing Activities
Date: 04-20-1979
Sources:
______________
______________
______________
______________
Summary:
Source (1) reported that an international study group, The Way International, had engaged in proselytizing activities directed at Navy personnel assigned to the U.S. Naval Submarine Base, New London, CT…
Source (1) expressed concern that the mind control techniques utilized by the group over its followers and recruitment of military personnel might prejudice national security since loyalty and subservience to the organization &/or its leaders are placed above anything else…
Source (1) also reported that xxxxx inquiries had developed information that The Way International was utilizing females to befriend sailors assigned to the submarine base at New London and use them as a vehicle for later approach for joining the group. Two girls identified by nicknames xxxxx & xxxxx purportedly were wiling or had engaged in sexual relations with potential recruits for the organization in hopes that their sexual favors would sway the men into joining. Time frame when such recruitment supposedly occurred was thought to have been during the summer of 1978…
The Way International had developed another base of operations in the Tampa. FL, area and that the organization is under investigation in Ohio by the Internal Revenue Service and the Federal Bureau of Investigation….Source also provided the names of “well positioned” personnel who support or are members of The Way International…
Source (1) expressed concern that the mind control techniques utilized by the group over its followers and recruitment of military personnel might prejudice national security since loyalty and subservience to the organization &/or its leaders are placed above anything else…
And there you have it.
Instead of thinking that all the believers wanted was to win some members of the military to the Lord Jesus Christ, one man's paranoia (source #1) leads some in the FBI to suspect that Vierville wants a nuclear weapon to explode.
Instead of thinking that all the believers wanted was to win some members of the military to the Lord Jesus Christ, one man's paranoia (source #1) leads some in the FBI to suspect that Vierville wants a nuclear weapon to explode.
*bang*
Happy Ho Ho Relo Countdown: 4 days :D
Oldies:
You aren't reading the reports properly.
The first report was from Baltimore in 1977, where an individual (likely a walk-in) [call him subject-1] said that he was concerned about VPW making a bomb. He described the WOW field, size of TWI, and size of WOW festival in '77.
The first report was from Guam, a couple of months later. This source [subject-2] was interviewed by NIS in the presence of another individual (perhaps his master chief). He discounted the info from the first person.
Now, what it sounds like is the subject-2 was named by the subject-1 and that the subject-2 gave some additional information to substantiate his denial.
The third report apparently has nothing to do with the first two (I may be wrong, there are still 109 pages to go LOL). But it appears that this source [subject-3] spoke to the NIS in New London Conneticut in 1979 (almost 2 years after the first two reports). This source was concerned that TWI was a mind control cult that was recruiting sailors from the base using female WOWs that tried to entice the prospective recruits with sex. Subject-3 was concerned that sailors, once recruited into TWI, would pose a threat to national security, because they'd be likely to reveal highly classified information to the cult's leadership (due to the brainwashing). He also identified that there were WOWs in Tampa doing the same thing as in New London. (Note: this could have possibly been worth a follow-up, since nuclear subs are homeported at New London and the headquarters of the US Special Operations Command and US Central Command are located in Tampa. And, after all, how would they know that TWI wasn't just a front organization for the Speznaz or KGB?).
But the key point is -- don't make connections where none exist. And, unless jkboehme has a document to transcribe that shows a connection, there isn't much of a connection between the first two documents and the third document.
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topoftheworld
OK: nuclear weapons??! That is going way beyond any line I know of-at least before 1982. Come on! Yes, there was some wackiness in the seventies and early eighties. There was a huge push in the Tenth Corp one block where we had to stockpile food, water, weapons, and odd survival gear: I remember it clearly because I couldn't find enough people out in the real world, even my sponsors, who could pony up the extra money we each needed to get the supplies, I never heard any of the conspiricy talk directly from VPW, only from the Corps leadership. Nobody liked us-we were the ememy-we would be the targets in any attempted takeover by a foreign government, etc., etc. Our weapons training amounted to shooting a rifle and a shotgun at a practice range. After that wild ride-and yes it was scary at the time-nothing seemed to come of it, and things returned to normal(?) soon enough. Was all that part of the Corps training as advertised-no. Was it written down somewhere-no. Did it happen-oh, yeah. But the emphasis was on training in the Word-not starting a war. Let's not make VPW as a warmonger: whatever his faults (and they were there, I will conceed) he was not the insane cult leader you're try to make him out to be. If anything, he was responding-or his people were overracting-to the situation of the times we were living in.
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jkboehme
Any US citizen can request the FOIA & get a copy. You might have to be persistent, even pushy, but you can obtain it.
Get it, & read it for yourself.
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HAPe4me
who alleged that TWI had interest in a acquiring nuclear weapons? members? locals? the agencies? you?
JKB do you have copies of said documents? post them! You say they have info on this period of time in TWI, Do they give evidence of the pursuit of nuclear weapons?
Be it far from me to give a dang about covering for tWI, but you are asking us to believe this statement based on your post? what is this, an attempt to get Bush to attack new knoxville? The intelligence on them is about as valid as it was on Iraq.
bah humbug.
~HAP
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topoftheworld
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diazbro
Get the quoting right topoftheworld. I NEVER said that TWI had an interest in obtaining nuclear weapons. JKBoheme quoted a post of mine and used it as a basis for discussing TWI's interest in weapons but my post mentioned NOTHING about nukes.
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Lifted Up
Unless my eyes are getting older than I think they are, HAP did not refer in the least to you (diazbro). Hap was, I think, pointing out that JKB brought up the subject, with the vague "at one time it was alleged" without even hinting who alleged such. I think you meant to refer to topoftheworld, and even then I think TOTW just deleted the unwanted part of the quote too quickly, appearing to connect you to the statement. Understandable for you to correct, but I know I am capable of such a goof. (I dount it was intentional).
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diazbro
Okay you are correct. It was top of the world. So I'll get MY quoting right. Also neither do I think it was intentional but I don't think that any of us want to
be misconstrued as saying something that we know we didn't especially if we are talking about something as serious as nuclear weaponry. I never mentioned anything about nukes and I would like him to edit his post to reflect that.
It says "Per diazbro":
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Lifted Up
...and I'm sure I'm capable of getting a name wrong when I'm in a rush. and I don't blame you at all for not wanting to be incorrectly associated with such a statement...or anything incorrectly quoted, but this one does seem to be particularly rather far out. Which is why, IMHO, it would be interesting to know who made such allegations, if anyone did.
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jkboehme
My optical scanner has a gremlin so I am going to just relate the pertinent info of the FIOPA {Freedom of Information & Privacy Act} that is available.
The original FBI document is dated August 23, 1977. I don’t know what the following classifications indicate but will just list it here.
FOIPA No. 0997927-000
CVO375 2351622Z
RR HQ BA CI HI
R 231620Z
FM Cleveland (117-80)
To Director Routine
Baltimore Routine
Cincinnati Routine
Honolulu Routine
BT
Clear
The enclosed documents were reviewed under the Freedom of Information/Privacy Acts (FOIPA), Title 5, United States Code, Section 552/552a. Deletions have been made to protect information which is exempt from disclosure, with the appropriate exemptions noted on the page next to the excision. In addition, a deleted page information sheet was inserted in the file to indicate where pages were withheld entirely. The exemptions used to withhold information are marked below and explained on the enclosed Form OPCA-16a.
131 pages were reviewed and 112 pages are being released. Documents were located which originated with, or contained information concerning other Government agencies [OGA]. This information has been referred to OGA for review and direct response.
DMH, Section Chief
Record/Information Dissemination Section
Records Management Division
Alleged plot by organization “Way International” Founder Victor Paul Wierwille to explode nuclear bomb, AEA, 00 : Cleveland.
Re Baltimore teletype to Director, August 18,1977.
Cleveland Division has in the past conducted several investigations involving the “Way International”, New Knoxville, Ohio. Victor Wierwille is almost totally inaccessible for interview and is surrounded by corporate attorneys who in the past have been hostile towards the Bureau. It is believed that with no more details than Baltimore has provided regarding the building of a nuclear weapon by the “Way International” a productive interview with Wierwille is impossible at this time.
If allegation re nuclear weapon is true, Cleveland will obtain authorization from AUSA, Ohio, for Federal prosecution and would be interested in recovering atomic material from the “Way International” and xxxxxxxxx [jkb note: this is apparently how the FBI protects via FOIPA the identity of some of the parties involved]. An interview by Cleveland at this time would alert subject to Bureau’s interest and knowledge and would make subsequent investigation and prosecution more viscous.
Baltimore xxxxxxxxxxx Maryland, re-interview source and determine pertinent details re his knowledge of xxxxxxx to include identity and location. Additionally, determine where bomb is being constructed and any other pertinent details. As info may later be testimony, provide Cleveland with FD 302 re interview.
Baltimore should protect Baltimore source as informant in this matter.
Cleveland at New Knoxville3, Ohio, upon receipt of additional info re identity of xxxxxxx and location re nuclear device allegedly being constructed, will interview Victor Paul Wierwille re his knowledge. If a valid violation of Federal law is apparent, present matter to AUSA, Toledo, Ohio, for his prosecutive opinion.
On August18,1977, a source, whose reliability has not been established, advised that the has associated with the “Way International” for approximately xxxx years and associated with them while attending xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. He described the organization as a Christian cult founded by Victor Paul Wierwille, who believes himself to be a prophet. He recently attended the Rock of Ages Festival in Sidney, Ohio, where approximately 14,000 people attended at the fairgrounds. This festival was attended by the Word Over the World (WOW) members, who have gone out and recruited new members.
Source appears to be very intelligent and believes honestly that the organization has the potential for developing a bomb. He stated that many members are in the military services and would do any directive for the “Way International” and believes there are currently 50,000 members.
BT
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Kevlar2000
It ain't me! Honest!
And the second line proves it!
:D
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oldiesman
Now I have heard everything. :D
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likeaneagle
yikes,almost believeable..huh..
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topoftheworld
Diazbro: My cut and paste efforts inadvertently gave you a headache: my apologies. My comment was intended for jkboehme on the comments he made, not you. I will be more careful in the future.
Lifted Up: Thanks for the correction, and yes, it was a boo-boo on my part.
jkboehme: I stand by my point, which was the use of the word "Alleged"-the report itself makes it clear the the "source" had not been determined to be credible: if it was determined at some later point to be credible, and there is something to the story, where is the follow-up? So far, all they had was a description of the Rock. Yes, there were potentials for bomb's to be created, but not the "Nuclear" kind.
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jkboehme
TOTW
I was hoping that you could tell me where the follow-up is! I don’t need two hands to find my butt in the dark because it is already, gulp, glowing!
And all this time, while at the ROA of times past, I thought the vague fluorescent glow under the harvest moon was just the well-watered corn!
We know VPW horded a bit of yellow gold, perhaps enriched himself with a bit of black gold, but this U Rainy Yum stuff is scarry!!
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topoftheworld
Translation......?
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Cynic
jkboehme,
Seen Elvis recently?
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jkboehme
Could any of our ex-twi former or current military perhaps enlighten us on this aspect of corporate TWI's weapons fascination?
Hi Cynic,
Let's see, last I heard, Tommy Lee Jones advised Will Smith {in Men in Black I} where Elvis was, but darn, I forget what he said.
jkb ;)
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excathedra
ok i don't know what time frame this fits
but i was at emporia and placed in a group where we would go underground or in the wilderness or something "together" we might start out with a full tank of gas but we would end up on foot
we bought silk sea sponges for tampons (gross) you wash them out and reuse them
i had to find a place we would go but i couldn't tell the person about the secret of why we were coming (some takeover or end of the world)
so i called my dear dear friend and sponsor. she had a farm and i thought that would be a good place
when i called her, i said something like, can we come there? and she was like, what ? who ? when ? i said i can't tell you, but can we come there ? she loved me enough to say yes but what in the hell could she be thinking ? i said something like, i can't tell you, but trust me
ohmygod this is too weird
i also had a very expensive backpack called a malpack - more abundant living pack or something like that - i always get it wrong, not good with those abbreviations. i had candles and rope and all kinds of stuff that i did not know how to use
in my mind i was saying - when the enemy comes for my death, you know the word or whatever the alternative was, i'm going to say, shoot me now..... i'm not a good survivor
they were talking about seeing your mother eating out of a garbage can and somehow that was related to your commitment to the word but i forget
it was too creepy
i think i blocked it, especially the part about my dear mother
holy christ
igotout remember when i called you about this ?
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Lifted Up
...and you all thought our WMD intelligence on Iraq was unreliable.
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markomalley
The principal concern that I had seen was with connections between domestic groups and overseas groups, where the overseas groups might use the domestic groups as facilitators to import and use WMDs. Having said that, I didn't see such a connection made involving right-wing militia groups at all. (At the time, the principle concern in this area was a left-wing group in the states having contact with a group overseas that was a front for the Speznaz -- when I was working that stuff, it was long before the OKC bombing)
But keep in mind that there are a lot of people who talk really "big" and this is not to say that somebody might not have heard rumors within TWI that they might not have boasted about something that had no basis in reality (of course, we all KNOW that nobody in TWI exaggerated at all, now don't we? :blink:
) and a person, hearing it for the first time, may have taken it seriously and then done his/her civic duty and reported it to the FBI.
If the FBI gets any kind of word on this type of subject, they are going to check it out -- they have to -- if, for no other reason, to verify that it isn't credible. According to the message you extracted, that was the conclusion -- that the report was found to be not credible.
Now apparently you have 111 more pages of FOIA'd documents: if there is something of interest in any of those other pages, I'd be happy to see it..
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jkboehme
Next installment
FBI Communications Section
October 19, 1977
Alleged plot by organization “Way International” founder Victor Paul Wierwille to explode nuclear bomb; AEA, 00: Cleveland.
Re Honolulu teletypes to Bureau, October 11, 1977 & October 12, 1977
Baltimore & Cleveland disregard request re advisability of contacting xxxxx. Xxxxx contacted FBI, AGANA, Guam requesting to furnish information in this matter.
Xxxxx in company of xxxxx was interviewed at the Naval Investigative Service Office, Naval Air Station, Guam, on October 19, 1977.
Xxxxx is an active member of WOW & spent some time attempting to proselytize the interviewing agent.
Xxxxx speculated that misinformation about the bomb could have come from xxxxx, indicating that at the conversation in the trailer, only he and xxxxx were privy to statements made by xxxxx. No comment was made as to the source of information.
Cleveland may wish to consider requesting Baltimore to contact its source to determine the identity of other persons present at the conversation. Cleveland may also wish to consider recontacting this same source to determine any specific statements xxxxx recalls xxxxx or xxxxx making which led xxxxx to believe that the project on which xxxxx is working is an atomic bomb rather than some other energy device.
BT
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jkboehme
From: Director, Naval Investigative Service
To: Director, Federal Bureau of Investigation
Subj: NAVSUBASE New London Groton CT / Proselytizing Activities
Date: 04-20-1979
Sources:
Summary:
Source (1) reported that an international study group, The Way International, had engaged in proselytizing activities directed at Navy personnel assigned to the U.S. Naval Submarine Base, New London, CT…
Source (1) expressed concern that the mind control techniques utilized by the group over its followers and recruitment of military personnel might prejudice national security since loyalty and subservience to the organization &/or its leaders are placed above anything else…
Source (1) also reported that xxxxx inquiries had developed information that The Way International was utilizing females to befriend sailors assigned to the submarine base at New London and use them as a vehicle for later approach for joining the group. Two girls identified by nicknames xxxxx & xxxxx purportedly were wiling or had engaged in sexual relations with potential recruits for the organization in hopes that their sexual favors would sway the men into joining. Time frame when such recruitment supposedly occurred was thought to have been during the summer of 1978…
The Way International had developed another base of operations in the Tampa. FL, area and that the organization is under investigation in Ohio by the Internal Revenue Service and the Federal Bureau of Investigation….Source also provided the names of “well positioned” personnel who support or are members of The Way International…
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oldiesman
And there you have it.
Instead of thinking that all the believers wanted was to win some members of the military to the Lord Jesus Christ, one man's paranoia (source #1) leads some in the FBI to suspect that Vierville wants a nuclear weapon to explode.
*bang*
Happy Ho Ho Relo Countdown: 4 days :D
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markomalley
Oldies:
You aren't reading the reports properly.
The first report was from Baltimore in 1977, where an individual (likely a walk-in) [call him subject-1] said that he was concerned about VPW making a bomb. He described the WOW field, size of TWI, and size of WOW festival in '77.
The first report was from Guam, a couple of months later. This source [subject-2] was interviewed by NIS in the presence of another individual (perhaps his master chief). He discounted the info from the first person.
Now, what it sounds like is the subject-2 was named by the subject-1 and that the subject-2 gave some additional information to substantiate his denial.
The third report apparently has nothing to do with the first two (I may be wrong, there are still 109 pages to go LOL). But it appears that this source [subject-3] spoke to the NIS in New London Conneticut in 1979 (almost 2 years after the first two reports). This source was concerned that TWI was a mind control cult that was recruiting sailors from the base using female WOWs that tried to entice the prospective recruits with sex. Subject-3 was concerned that sailors, once recruited into TWI, would pose a threat to national security, because they'd be likely to reveal highly classified information to the cult's leadership (due to the brainwashing). He also identified that there were WOWs in Tampa doing the same thing as in New London. (Note: this could have possibly been worth a follow-up, since nuclear subs are homeported at New London and the headquarters of the US Special Operations Command and US Central Command are located in Tampa. And, after all, how would they know that TWI wasn't just a front organization for the Speznaz or KGB?).
But the key point is -- don't make connections where none exist. And, unless jkboehme has a document to transcribe that shows a connection, there isn't much of a connection between the first two documents and the third document.
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