Have you ever wondered what makes a thing like beauty so instantly recognizable? It's almost as if it were a genetic response, yet the "standards" for what we accept as beautiful have changed considerably over the years. And they differ by culture. Also by social class, education, family background, religious background, peer circles, and "pop culture."
Much of our response to beauty has to do with the way we seek to "frame it," to accessorize it, to emphasize it.
Case in point, what may be beautiful on a beach in Malibu may be considered obscene on a street corner in Tehran, or Peoria for that matter. Why? It's all in how much is revealed, and how much is concealed. Interesting, no?
Does its beauty make it "obscene," in other words, does fundamentalism seek to control the power of beauty by concealing it from view?
Cosmetics raise questions too. We all have some sense of how much make-up is enough, or too much, or not enough. I've seen women transformed into Mardi Gras-like charicatures of themselves from the excessive (in my opinion) application of make-up. Others wear no make-up at all, with varying results. (I kind of like that "look.") Still others seem to apply it so artistically it makes you wonder if its really there, though you know it is.
I am getting the sense that beauty is a touchy subject, even here, and maybe we can understand why. I don't want this thread to become an attempt to "fix" someone else's perception of beauty because it conflicts with popular ideals.
What I like or don't like is irrelevant. But what I see, and what you see, is extremely relevant, if only to understand what motivates us, male or female.
What is this connection between our senses and our sense of beauty? Is there a "cult" of beauty to which we all belong, without even realizing it?
How much do you invest in your personal appearance which you might privately concede is out of vanity? Or conversely, how much do you neglect yourself (as the expression of not loving yourself, or punishing yourself, as the "torch" you bear for some chronic sense of shame or guilt, a.k.a., "sin") enough to look your best?
How much of any obsession or neglect is a disguise or a re-invention of yourself to influence others' behavior toward you? A woman in fear of men might make herself less attractive, for instance. A woman in fear of being alone might spend everything she has on looking attractive. And we'll acknowledge that men, in their own way, will do the same, but it's not the same. Body builders come to mind, but there are lots of other examples.
[This message was edited by QamiQazi on September 08, 2003 at 12:51.]
It is one of my favorite quotable statistics, but the entire space program (1958-1969) that put those men on the Moon cost about the same as American women spent in one single year on cosmetics. Either that was the bargain of the century, or else we should all be digging in our back yards, hoping to strike Oil of Olay...
As far as women go, well, I'm not sure how I can put this delicately. Suffice it to say that, in my admittedly-limited experience, there isn't all that much variation in the reproductive portions of different women's anatomy. Benjamin Franklin once said "All cats are gray in the dark," and the rumor has it that he was using the word "cats" as a substitute for another feline euphemism. Heinlein refined it to say "all women are the same height in bed," which isn't literally true, but still indicative of the same general observation.
So, if, from the man's perspective, the actual act of copulation isn't affected all that much by female sexual physiology, the real reason for the packaged vanity of cosmetics is salesmanship, er, saleswomanship. Let's face it, milk is milk, gasoline is gasoline, and potatoes are pretty much potatoes. There has to be something that makes a particular brand stand out from the crowd in order for someone to select that one over all the rest.
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
OK. I'll weigh in on this one. I don't think TWI participation affected my notions about female beauty. LCM's behavior was hidden from believers like me, but had I known I would still not have aspired to be like him. I was raised in a household with a mom and 2 sisters who graduated HS before I started kindergarten. Predatory males even at the Jr. High and HS level were "bad guys" in my thinking.
I clean windows for a living. Among my accounts are several women's clothing stores and even a Hooters. I spend anywhere from 15 min. to an hour and a half in the vanity atmosphere QQ described "like the grail, unattainable by the standards set by the industries and empires which sell beauty products". Those thuggish looking models whose oversized pictures leer at those in the store don't turn me on at all. However, there is one chain store I service that always seems to have beautiful women going in and out of the place.
It's Walgreens! THOSE women are not trying to be bigger than life sexually intimidating like the thugs and their wannabes. They're just discreetly going about their business and without trying to (much) they look GREAT! I DO think the fashion industry targets women who may be insecure about their appearance. I think Madonna looks better at forty something than she did when she was 25.
QQ intersting what you say about the "standards" changing from culture to culture. I think if there's one common denominator in female beauty throughout time, it's the eyes. In Gen. 29:17 it says Leah was tender eyed in direct contrast to Rachel being beautiful and well favored. Back then girls and women did not wear tank tops or bikinis and the like. The only media they had with which to express their sexuality was their eyes and their faces.
Even today, a woman who knows how to use her eyes has a WMD Saddam never thought of. Yes, those other body parts will get our attention, but when it's time to go for the kill, out come the eyes. I don't understand why some women use make up to hide their eyes.
The bible says one should not hide their light under a bushel. Female and male each have their steps in the "mating dance."
Men appreciate female beauty (the understatement of the century), but they may also resent it. We may even see it as a personal invitation, only to be rejected in favor of a rival.
While females are less inclined to whistle and hoot, they have an eye for masculine physicality which parallels the male eye for the feminine. But not exactly.
I've heard that beauty is definied by the Fibbonaci sequence, when measuring faces and such a certain way. I don't know how that works out, because I only understand how the Fibbonaci ratio works into stuff like pinecones and sunflowers. Still, if anyone like Zixar can elaborate I'd appreciate it.
all of them were young and good looking , one however was stunning , he worked out every single day and had muscles on top of muscles , He was a dark ebony color and has glow in the dark white teeth , he was forty but looked twenty ... he liked to wear as little cloth as possible he wore white tank tops... this guy had grown old ladies fall upon him hour after hour...
he knew he was looking good because he tried every day to look his best never had a hair out of place wore very expensive outfits.. clean ..
We worked long hours at night together alone, and we talked alot... I got to know him and his beautifulness was often a topic... The woman and girls would bother him .. yet he was single... we talked alot then we grew to be good friends and I realized after about a year I didnt noticed how he looked any more.. remember this is one who I consider stunning the type of looks male and females notice ,
something chnaged as we talked about moms and kids and christmas being single after a few years I saw him differently and he did me, I used to be the old lady now we were friends.. When he came near it was not his wow this guy is hot I saw it was his warm smile and a sense of safety of being near a friend.. Then one day someone said something about how hot he was looking and I said who ***?? and laughed becasue it was gone now his beauty had turned into something so much stronger and real I couldnt even describe it other than he was my friend.. isnt that weird?
works out every day, wears as little clothing as possible to show it off, never a hair out of place, tried every day to look his best, wore white tank tops to show off his tan, wore very expensive outfits. dont let him get around any mirrors or he'll never get any work done.
you got that right and he didnt want to get dirty and we worked in a garden outside at night!! haha
he didnt either! I would be all sweaty and have dirt on my face and hands and the guy looked like he was sitting for a fashion magazine!!
it is just the way he is one of the beautiful people.. I tell ya few impress me like this guy does as far as just lookin at somone and seeing God at work in art form..
you know when the leaves change or the lake is see thru blue or the sun set is full of majesty we all agree God has a sense of form and true handiwork but some people are just pretty and pleasing to the eye..
But what about expectations? Little girls are expected to be "pretty."
Boys are expected to be athletic, brave, tough - things most boys can work on if they don't get it right away.
But how does a little girl work on being "pretty?"
And what if she works on it as all little girls will try, and some little boy tells her she's ugly?
If a boy is lacking in strength or coordination, he will take up a sport or work out. He will develop his prowess and muscles, things which nature meant to be developed.
How does she get to feel prettier?
I think that in a way we throw our girls out there to the wolves, the way Lot threw his daughters to the Sodomites. This cultural addiction to beauty may be killing something in females, and if in them, in males too.
It's not so subtle, unless you've become used to it. And we have.
Speaking of wolves - laleo, interesting thoughts on the views of Ms. Wolf. Also, I have purposely refrained from mentioning my cowboy boots in hopes of maintaining some semblance of decorum.
[This message was edited by QamiQazi on September 08, 2003 at 22:27.]
Don't you think that maybe men buy women's clothing for the women they love? They also go into the lingerie and other things also but not too many women go into the mens area to buy lingerie for their men.
Just a thought, what do you think?
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
I've been thinking about this a lot today and have a couple of thoughts (I'm female):
- I think a girl's ideas of beauty are influenced over a lifetime like so many other things and may grow, change and evolve over her lifetime.
- A lot of my own ideas of beauty were influenced growing up in a bi-cultural family. My grandparents were from Mexico and very much held onto their culture; my parents were "tweeners" who had a foot in both cultures; and we kids were encouraged by parents to assimilate into the Anglo culture by my parents and exposed to our Mexican culture by my grandparents. My grandmother and aunts were not 5'11' model types; but were under 5' tall; they had deep brown skin, some were heavy, some just "curvy" (busty and big hips).
- That experience made me view beauty very differently than my Anglo friends; I spent my formative years in my family settings with women with dark hair, dark eyes and dark skin; some were immigrants who courageously came here with little education and very little knowledge of the language; some were ranchers and farmers who had sun worn faces and calouses on their hands. They were strong and independent women. Some were painters, some musicians, some businesswomen. They were the dominant female influence in my life; not fashion magazines or T.V. So my idea of women and beauty was not a "Christie Brinkley" type model, but rather real women in my life who had beautiful souls and were confident in who they were and passed that spirit on to the younger women in the family.
- My mother's style of beauty and appearance was largely influenced in the 40s - 60s living in large cities where fashion was fun, exciting and always new as women gained their independence. Jackie Kennedy's look was how the mom's wanted to dress as it was perceived as fashion forward and proper. Hair in place, make up beautifully done, white gloves, hats, high heels.
- Growing up in the Oakland, Calif. area, I was used to seeing larger numbers of African American women with Afros, braids, perms, etc.; Asian American women in traditional clothing in Chinatown; Philappino women, Portugese and large numbers of latino women. These women had much different physical features than the tall, lanky, skinny, bust-enhanced women in the fashion magazines and were my pictures of women and beauty in my mind's eye.
- Then growing up in the 60s in my teens we became a culture influenced by hippy life-styles, and in California, by a fitness revolution : bellbottom jeans; halter "no bra" tops; wild colors, tie die, etc. Sports were now offered to girls in schools beginning in elementary school and our entire lifestyle changed from prim and proper to wild to gender neutral. All this influenced our impressionable young minds.
- My later years I had to conform some of my beauty habits to the corporate world in which I worked. Suits, pumps, sleek hair, nice but not overdone makeup.
- My being a Christian (even in TWI) influenced me to love what was inside of me more than my flesh only.
All of this I share because to answer your question, I think there are just so many factors to external beauty. Not everyone is a slave to the commercial makeup and beauty magazine world. And some of our concepts of beauty have been formulate and influenced by diverse cultures, the people who helped us grow, etc.
In business, I can dress appropriately for the setting, do the hair and make up routine and feel businesslike and also feminine without trying to entice anyone. In my casual time, I'm quite comfortable in jeans, a sweater and minimal makeup. When I was married, there were many times when I wanted to look feminine, soft, or even sexy around my husband and othertimes we could be just as intimate if I was in sweats with no makeup. I've dated occasionally since I've been single again, and I gotta admit, it feels nice to take a little extra time on myself and have someone notice.
But really, just speaking for me now - - I do try to take good care of myself in all ways to the best of my ability - - spiritually, emotionally, physically - - I excercise and take care of my health and body including some make up, a nice hair cut, my nails,perfume, etc. I do like to wear more or less makeup depending on the occasion. I enjoy dressing up on occasion; I like to feel feminine; I'm also athletic and like to shoot hoops or play softball, volleyball or hike. I also enjoy an occasional bubblebath with nice smelling stuff in it; I also like to work hard and get my hands dirty in my garden. I have a nice smile; a happy disposition on life; I'm loving and secure.
I have a good sense of myself and don't feel the need to physically alter any part of my body to "feel good" about myself. There's times when I'm more faithful than others in excercising, and when I'm not, I don't sink into a crisis cuz I've just put on 10 pounds. I enjoy primping at times and it makes me feel good to look good. I like feminine things at times and I like a 40 lb. backpack on my back, jeans and hiking boots while hiking in the mountains. I'm comfortable dressing up for lunch in uptown Manhattan; love to buy things on occasion from Victoria Secrets "just because", and love jeans and a t-shirt - - and can still be "just me". I don't feel a need to conform myself to a body type I'll never have (nor would want) or obsess because my face or breasts don't look like they've had plastic surgery.
So all of this has made me a bit of who I am in my 40s and how I view beauty for myself and others. I admire both women and men who have a good sense of themselves, whether they are fashion trendy, nerdy or just down home casual. I don't think that when a person takes the time to care for themselves, their grooming or even like to follow fashion trends, that it is necessarily "vanity". Beauty is more about WHO we are than what we wear or do to ourselves on the outside. And sometimes our outward beauty is just a small reflection of a very beautiful self inside.
Like Johniam said, the beauty is in the eyes - - they really are the window to the soul.
[This message was edited by jardinero on September 09, 2003 at 0:54.]
jardinero, that was beautifully stated. I would be surprised if you didn't get several marriage proprosals - not to embarrass you or to suggest that was your intent.
One thing you came back to a few times, and it's something I love about women, is the pleasure they take in feeling feminine. It may vary from culture to culture, but think few men dress to feel or express their masculinity, at least consciously. I know, guys wear "guy stuff" and yet there is a male detachment about it too. All we know for sure is we DON'T want to feel or look feminine. (If we ever should, don't tell us, just kill us.)
Regarding the "feminine" thing - - it took me a little while to learn and appreciate in myself, but now I really believe it's how God "wired" females physiologically - - and the varied expressions of it in different women is a beautiful thing.
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QamiQazi
Have you ever wondered what makes a thing like beauty so instantly recognizable? It's almost as if it were a genetic response, yet the "standards" for what we accept as beautiful have changed considerably over the years. And they differ by culture. Also by social class, education, family background, religious background, peer circles, and "pop culture."
Much of our response to beauty has to do with the way we seek to "frame it," to accessorize it, to emphasize it.
Case in point, what may be beautiful on a beach in Malibu may be considered obscene on a street corner in Tehran, or Peoria for that matter. Why? It's all in how much is revealed, and how much is concealed. Interesting, no?
Does its beauty make it "obscene," in other words, does fundamentalism seek to control the power of beauty by concealing it from view?
Cosmetics raise questions too. We all have some sense of how much make-up is enough, or too much, or not enough. I've seen women transformed into Mardi Gras-like charicatures of themselves from the excessive (in my opinion) application of make-up. Others wear no make-up at all, with varying results. (I kind of like that "look.") Still others seem to apply it so artistically it makes you wonder if its really there, though you know it is.
I am getting the sense that beauty is a touchy subject, even here, and maybe we can understand why. I don't want this thread to become an attempt to "fix" someone else's perception of beauty because it conflicts with popular ideals.
What I like or don't like is irrelevant. But what I see, and what you see, is extremely relevant, if only to understand what motivates us, male or female.
What is this connection between our senses and our sense of beauty? Is there a "cult" of beauty to which we all belong, without even realizing it?
How much do you invest in your personal appearance which you might privately concede is out of vanity? Or conversely, how much do you neglect yourself (as the expression of not loving yourself, or punishing yourself, as the "torch" you bear for some chronic sense of shame or guilt, a.k.a., "sin") enough to look your best?
How much of any obsession or neglect is a disguise or a re-invention of yourself to influence others' behavior toward you? A woman in fear of men might make herself less attractive, for instance. A woman in fear of being alone might spend everything she has on looking attractive. And we'll acknowledge that men, in their own way, will do the same, but it's not the same. Body builders come to mind, but there are lots of other examples.
[This message was edited by QamiQazi on September 08, 2003 at 12:51.]
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up on high
This is a very interesting thread. i'm waiting to see if any MALE Gsers are going to respond.
Ps QQ I know you are a male.
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Zixar
It is one of my favorite quotable statistics, but the entire space program (1958-1969) that put those men on the Moon cost about the same as American women spent in one single year on cosmetics. Either that was the bargain of the century, or else we should all be digging in our back yards, hoping to strike Oil of Olay...
As far as women go, well, I'm not sure how I can put this delicately. Suffice it to say that, in my admittedly-limited experience, there isn't all that much variation in the reproductive portions of different women's anatomy. Benjamin Franklin once said "All cats are gray in the dark," and the rumor has it that he was using the word "cats" as a substitute for another feline euphemism. Heinlein refined it to say "all women are the same height in bed," which isn't literally true, but still indicative of the same general observation.
So, if, from the man's perspective, the actual act of copulation isn't affected all that much by female sexual physiology, the real reason for the packaged vanity of cosmetics is salesmanship, er, saleswomanship. Let's face it, milk is milk, gasoline is gasoline, and potatoes are pretty much potatoes. There has to be something that makes a particular brand stand out from the crowd in order for someone to select that one over all the rest.
The fool hath said in his heart, "PFAL is the Word of God..."
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WhiteDove
Fashion can be bought
Style one must possess.
Question 1. No ,male
Without Coffee
I Would Have No Personality At All!
Drink your coffee children in India are sleeping
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johniam
OK. I'll weigh in on this one. I don't think TWI participation affected my notions about female beauty. LCM's behavior was hidden from believers like me, but had I known I would still not have aspired to be like him. I was raised in a household with a mom and 2 sisters who graduated HS before I started kindergarten. Predatory males even at the Jr. High and HS level were "bad guys" in my thinking.
I clean windows for a living. Among my accounts are several women's clothing stores and even a Hooters. I spend anywhere from 15 min. to an hour and a half in the vanity atmosphere QQ described "like the grail, unattainable by the standards set by the industries and empires which sell beauty products". Those thuggish looking models whose oversized pictures leer at those in the store don't turn me on at all. However, there is one chain store I service that always seems to have beautiful women going in and out of the place.
It's Walgreens! THOSE women are not trying to be bigger than life sexually intimidating like the thugs and their wannabes. They're just discreetly going about their business and without trying to (much) they look GREAT! I DO think the fashion industry targets women who may be insecure about their appearance. I think Madonna looks better at forty something than she did when she was 25.
QQ intersting what you say about the "standards" changing from culture to culture. I think if there's one common denominator in female beauty throughout time, it's the eyes. In Gen. 29:17 it says Leah was tender eyed in direct contrast to Rachel being beautiful and well favored. Back then girls and women did not wear tank tops or bikinis and the like. The only media they had with which to express their sexuality was their eyes and their faces.
Even today, a woman who knows how to use her eyes has a WMD Saddam never thought of. Yes, those other body parts will get our attention, but when it's time to go for the kill, out come the eyes. I don't understand why some women use make up to hide their eyes.
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QamiQazi
Random thoughts -
The bible says one should not hide their light under a bushel. Female and male each have their steps in the "mating dance."
Men appreciate female beauty (the understatement of the century), but they may also resent it. We may even see it as a personal invitation, only to be rejected in favor of a rival.
While females are less inclined to whistle and hoot, they have an eye for masculine physicality which parallels the male eye for the feminine. But not exactly.
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laleo
. . .
[This message was edited by laleo on September 08, 2003 at 22:53.]
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Mister P-Mosh
I've heard that beauty is definied by the Fibbonaci sequence, when measuring faces and such a certain way. I don't know how that works out, because I only understand how the Fibbonaci ratio works into stuff like pinecones and sunflowers. Still, if anyone like Zixar can elaborate I'd appreciate it.
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Shellon
Mister Mosh
Pinecones, Sunflowers.........
huh?
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excathedra
for mr. p
http://www.discover.com/neuroquest/beautybrain.html
**
i'm still thinking about what i want to say here
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AHAT
How does that song go?
"Women always get prettier at closing time."
AHAT
I know my own mind....it's around here somewhere.
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mj412
I worked with all males last year..
all of them were young and good looking , one however was stunning , he worked out every single day and had muscles on top of muscles , He was a dark ebony color and has glow in the dark white teeth , he was forty but looked twenty ... he liked to wear as little cloth as possible he wore white tank tops... this guy had grown old ladies fall upon him hour after hour...
he knew he was looking good because he tried every day to look his best never had a hair out of place wore very expensive outfits.. clean ..
We worked long hours at night together alone, and we talked alot... I got to know him and his beautifulness was often a topic... The woman and girls would bother him .. yet he was single... we talked alot then we grew to be good friends and I realized after about a year I didnt noticed how he looked any more.. remember this is one who I consider stunning the type of looks male and females notice ,
something chnaged as we talked about moms and kids and christmas being single after a few years I saw him differently and he did me, I used to be the old lady now we were friends.. When he came near it was not his wow this guy is hot I saw it was his warm smile and a sense of safety of being near a friend.. Then one day someone said something about how hot he was looking and I said who ***?? and laughed becasue it was gone now his beauty had turned into something so much stronger and real I couldnt even describe it other than he was my friend.. isnt that weird?
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chwester
works out every day, wears as little clothing as possible to show it off, never a hair out of place, tried every day to look his best, wore white tank tops to show off his tan, wore very expensive outfits. dont let him get around any mirrors or he'll never get any work done.
Proud to be an American
www.pullingdownstrongholds.com
www.anncoulter.org
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mj412
you got that right and he didnt want to get dirty and we worked in a garden outside at night!! haha
he didnt either! I would be all sweaty and have dirt on my face and hands and the guy looked like he was sitting for a fashion magazine!!
it is just the way he is one of the beautiful people.. I tell ya few impress me like this guy does as far as just lookin at somone and seeing God at work in art form..
you know when the leaves change or the lake is see thru blue or the sun set is full of majesty we all agree God has a sense of form and true handiwork but some people are just pretty and pleasing to the eye..
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excathedra
i'll get back to you
[This message was edited by excathedra on September 08, 2003 at 22:17.]
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Littlehawk
Ahat....may I have the first dance?
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QamiQazi
We know what we mean by abuse.
But what about expectations? Little girls are expected to be "pretty."
Boys are expected to be athletic, brave, tough - things most boys can work on if they don't get it right away.
But how does a little girl work on being "pretty?"
And what if she works on it as all little girls will try, and some little boy tells her she's ugly?
If a boy is lacking in strength or coordination, he will take up a sport or work out. He will develop his prowess and muscles, things which nature meant to be developed.
How does she get to feel prettier?
I think that in a way we throw our girls out there to the wolves, the way Lot threw his daughters to the Sodomites. This cultural addiction to beauty may be killing something in females, and if in them, in males too.
It's not so subtle, unless you've become used to it. And we have.
Speaking of wolves - laleo, interesting thoughts on the views of Ms. Wolf. Also, I have purposely refrained from mentioning my cowboy boots in hopes of maintaining some semblance of decorum.
[This message was edited by QamiQazi on September 08, 2003 at 22:27.]
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excathedra
i apologize. i didn't realize my post had been read
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excathedra
gosh i need to go to bed
[This message was edited by excathedra on September 08, 2003 at 23:04.]
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vickles
Don't you think that maybe men buy women's clothing for the women they love? They also go into the lingerie and other things also but not too many women go into the mens area to buy lingerie for their men.
Just a thought, what do you think?
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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jardinero
QQ:
I've been thinking about this a lot today and have a couple of thoughts (I'm female):
- I think a girl's ideas of beauty are influenced over a lifetime like so many other things and may grow, change and evolve over her lifetime.
- A lot of my own ideas of beauty were influenced growing up in a bi-cultural family. My grandparents were from Mexico and very much held onto their culture; my parents were "tweeners" who had a foot in both cultures; and we kids were encouraged by parents to assimilate into the Anglo culture by my parents and exposed to our Mexican culture by my grandparents. My grandmother and aunts were not 5'11' model types; but were under 5' tall; they had deep brown skin, some were heavy, some just "curvy" (busty and big hips).
- That experience made me view beauty very differently than my Anglo friends; I spent my formative years in my family settings with women with dark hair, dark eyes and dark skin; some were immigrants who courageously came here with little education and very little knowledge of the language; some were ranchers and farmers who had sun worn faces and calouses on their hands. They were strong and independent women. Some were painters, some musicians, some businesswomen. They were the dominant female influence in my life; not fashion magazines or T.V. So my idea of women and beauty was not a "Christie Brinkley" type model, but rather real women in my life who had beautiful souls and were confident in who they were and passed that spirit on to the younger women in the family.
- My mother's style of beauty and appearance was largely influenced in the 40s - 60s living in large cities where fashion was fun, exciting and always new as women gained their independence. Jackie Kennedy's look was how the mom's wanted to dress as it was perceived as fashion forward and proper. Hair in place, make up beautifully done, white gloves, hats, high heels.
- Growing up in the Oakland, Calif. area, I was used to seeing larger numbers of African American women with Afros, braids, perms, etc.; Asian American women in traditional clothing in Chinatown; Philappino women, Portugese and large numbers of latino women. These women had much different physical features than the tall, lanky, skinny, bust-enhanced women in the fashion magazines and were my pictures of women and beauty in my mind's eye.
- Then growing up in the 60s in my teens we became a culture influenced by hippy life-styles, and in California, by a fitness revolution : bellbottom jeans; halter "no bra" tops; wild colors, tie die, etc. Sports were now offered to girls in schools beginning in elementary school and our entire lifestyle changed from prim and proper to wild to gender neutral. All this influenced our impressionable young minds.
- My later years I had to conform some of my beauty habits to the corporate world in which I worked. Suits, pumps, sleek hair, nice but not overdone makeup.
- My being a Christian (even in TWI) influenced me to love what was inside of me more than my flesh only.
All of this I share because to answer your question, I think there are just so many factors to external beauty. Not everyone is a slave to the commercial makeup and beauty magazine world. And some of our concepts of beauty have been formulate and influenced by diverse cultures, the people who helped us grow, etc.
In business, I can dress appropriately for the setting, do the hair and make up routine and feel businesslike and also feminine without trying to entice anyone. In my casual time, I'm quite comfortable in jeans, a sweater and minimal makeup. When I was married, there were many times when I wanted to look feminine, soft, or even sexy around my husband and othertimes we could be just as intimate if I was in sweats with no makeup. I've dated occasionally since I've been single again, and I gotta admit, it feels nice to take a little extra time on myself and have someone notice.
But really, just speaking for me now - - I do try to take good care of myself in all ways to the best of my ability - - spiritually, emotionally, physically - - I excercise and take care of my health and body including some make up, a nice hair cut, my nails,perfume, etc. I do like to wear more or less makeup depending on the occasion. I enjoy dressing up on occasion; I like to feel feminine; I'm also athletic and like to shoot hoops or play softball, volleyball or hike. I also enjoy an occasional bubblebath with nice smelling stuff in it; I also like to work hard and get my hands dirty in my garden. I have a nice smile; a happy disposition on life; I'm loving and secure.
I have a good sense of myself and don't feel the need to physically alter any part of my body to "feel good" about myself. There's times when I'm more faithful than others in excercising, and when I'm not, I don't sink into a crisis cuz I've just put on 10 pounds. I enjoy primping at times and it makes me feel good to look good. I like feminine things at times and I like a 40 lb. backpack on my back, jeans and hiking boots while hiking in the mountains. I'm comfortable dressing up for lunch in uptown Manhattan; love to buy things on occasion from Victoria Secrets "just because", and love jeans and a t-shirt - - and can still be "just me". I don't feel a need to conform myself to a body type I'll never have (nor would want) or obsess because my face or breasts don't look like they've had plastic surgery.
So all of this has made me a bit of who I am in my 40s and how I view beauty for myself and others. I admire both women and men who have a good sense of themselves, whether they are fashion trendy, nerdy or just down home casual. I don't think that when a person takes the time to care for themselves, their grooming or even like to follow fashion trends, that it is necessarily "vanity". Beauty is more about WHO we are than what we wear or do to ourselves on the outside. And sometimes our outward beauty is just a small reflection of a very beautiful self inside.
Like Johniam said, the beauty is in the eyes - - they really are the window to the soul.
[This message was edited by jardinero on September 09, 2003 at 0:54.]
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AHAT
Hawk
You sure you wanna do that sight unseen?
Or did you mean the last dance.
:)-->
AHAT
I know my own mind....it's around here somewhere.
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QamiQazi
jardinero, that was beautifully stated. I would be surprised if you didn't get several marriage proprosals - not to embarrass you or to suggest that was your intent.
One thing you came back to a few times, and it's something I love about women, is the pleasure they take in feeling feminine. It may vary from culture to culture, but think few men dress to feel or express their masculinity, at least consciously. I know, guys wear "guy stuff" and yet there is a male detachment about it too. All we know for sure is we DON'T want to feel or look feminine. (If we ever should, don't tell us, just kill us.)
Anyway, thank you.
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jardinero
Regarding the "feminine" thing - - it took me a little while to learn and appreciate in myself, but now I really believe it's how God "wired" females physiologically - - and the varied expressions of it in different women is a beautiful thing.
Thanks, Qami. You're very sweet.
Jardinero
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