I figure I need to show up again on this thread. I wanted to clarify that I do not blame God for what happened to me. In my original post I said "what I thought was God's representatives" not God. I know it was my own free will/stupid choices. Even though I can logically tell myself why it wasn't God's fault, that God is always good and faithful etc. I still hesitate to really let go and trust Him--I need to be in control, plan it out, figure out how to get deliverance etc.
What has really helped me is that He has reminded me of at least one time where there was a definite opportunity to rethink what I had gotten involved in. Unfortunately, as a new grad of the foundational class, I had already became too egotistical and prideful and resisted Him during the whole 3 day event I was participating in. I mostly was questioning my own discernment and ability to hear Him for the
Wow Darling what a reply on one of your first topics. I thought it was great chatting with you in the chat room the other night and am glad to see you here.
We were taught by TWI and taught many things via TWI, such as sickness came because are believing was faulty, or we had no abundance in our lives because we weren't giving abundantly in our finances. People outside of twi were often considered filled with devil spirits if they refused to be witnessed to and come to twi fellowships, and of course if they weren't part of TWI we were not to hang out with them, the word said so according to TWI not to hang around with unbelievers or those who were not equally yoked ... But JC hung around thousands of people who did no know as much of Gods word as he did because it was those that God wanted to reach.
In my opinion. Many thought they were putting there trust in God when in all actuallity they were putting there trust in the words spoken by TWI, including myself for a time. It was us believing in TWI and not believing in God much of the time and this was our own downfall and thus the reason many of us found our way out of the Way eventually, and thank God for that. But we can't blame God for faulty doctrine taught by TWI.
Did we have the right to Tempt God ........ We always thanked him for stuff in prayers as if he should have it handled and provided it such as making it to the advance class or to the rock and if we thanked God in prayer and were unable to make it our believeing was not up to par. Of course the Rock was done away with after awhile along with other programs but we were still put in that position.
What God choses is right for us not what twi chose for us. I now have learned that I can thank God for the daily food on our table and the roof over our head which he has promised his childrens and believe it or not .......... instead of thanking him for that new car we needed ....... I asked him for it and I received it, thus I knew we really did need it. I no longer want to feel like I am tempting God in my prayers and thanking him before I receive what he wants to give me. I thank him all the time don't get me wrong but also ask him for help in situations.b If I believe I have need and ask him I shall receive my needs and sometimes my wants to and of course my first thought upon receiving is Thank You Father. This way I don't feel like I am tempting him to get me what I ask for but asking him. Many people in the bible asked God for his help and received it and of course then thanked him.
When I owned my flower shop I always ended my letters with possibly problems to other companys, "Thank you in advance for your cooperation" trying to get them to cooperate because I thanked them before they actually cooperated with me, it was tempting them to cooperate. Now in writing letter I simply let someone know "I would appreciate your attention on this matter" ........
Just like Jesus Christ said "Thou Shalt Not Tempt Thy Lord Thy God" .......... well we shouldn't tempt him either and just simply allow him to be our father who truly wants to give to his chilren. He knows our hearts. How I do things now and how someone else does things may not be the same but God knows my our heart and knows I don't want to tempt him to have to do a miraculous healing but I sure would appreciate it.
Twi taught some basic principles that I am thankful to know ........ I have kept the basics because I haven't thrown the baby out with the bath water but there was a time the baby was a floating away down the drain and I had to retrieve what was basic.
There are a lot of principles and especially practical application of the Word I feel we need to undo that TWI taught us, along with some later doctrinal error as well. Many individuals situations were compared with other indivuals in the bible ......... each situation is not identical and God told us not to compare ourselves with others, yet in TWi it happened all the time. Someone in fellowship would have done something that the leader would have compared them with someone else in the bible and let them know that they would suffer the same fate. Well those situations were wrong by TWI and many of us had the biblical information in our heads to stop it but we were so caught up in it it took awhile to clear the smog in our brains.
Many times we gave our needs away in TWI because that was what was asked of us. In my early years we had three small children and I remember my husband and I having to get to advance class and the rock and having three kids ...... my husband worked for school district which means in summer months he had to find a job for 2 1/2 months only when the kids were little, not many people want to hire you for such a short term but when that job is needed and provided for him he should take advantage of it and take care of his famlies needs. Instead we had to make these events two years in a row and my husband was without pay check for three months actually a forth because he got paid monthly and when he returned to work the end of August he didn't receive a paycheck til the end of Septembmer. We sold just about everything we owned, so as not to go into credit card debt to go two summers in a row down to RomeCity and Ohio. This was not Godly. God tells my husband to take care of his family first if he is married not TWi. He was to love his wife and take care of her as Chrit did the church and leave me without spot or wrinkle but boy did those two years give me a blemish or two.......... It has been many years and two of our children our old enough to be out on their own but my husband looks back at those two years and still hurts no matter how much we have been blessed since time.
But,
My husband was under the thumb of the limb and told his believing wasn't sufficient during those two years so long ago. Well it had been sufficient, God had provided my husband with what he needed, it was that we allowed by free will to let TWI take that which God had provided us away. Not Gods fault, really not even TWIs it was our fault for listening to a perverse and twisted minister. We were living abundantly but we sold our abundance and our need those summers to do what TWI wanted .......... it had nothing to do with God.
Do I believe in God and trust God .......... Yes .......... we still have opportunities come up today but they are always handled. God always provides. We own acreage in the most beautiful winter spot in the world. I look out my windown and see the glorious mountains that surround the valley we live in all toppled with snow and that picture alone brings me peace in my heart, knowing that God exists and brought us to this place for our hearts to heal, not only brought us to it but we bought it, its ours. I know in my heart that God still has plans for me and my husband. I know that my last child at home has grown up with the basics of the word without TWI surrounding him, beating him with a wooden spoon and telling him how bad his is. This blessing is from God our sons tremendous heart, his believing is so simple. I truly desire for my believing in God and trusting God to be as simple as my sons because it is a beautiful thing. My son at 12 yrs old walks in peace. He fellowships daily with his parents and loves God.
Penguin I hope you can find it in your heart to put away TWI and trust God. I still think those who suffered from TWI need to know the truth of what happened and people show up here new all the time. Its may seem like a broken record to some to repeat discussions that have already been brought up but as long as there are questions of this great importance hanging out I believe that they need to be handled for Gods sake because I know I suffer for my own children when they are hurting, let God be blessed with his children and steps they have taken to overcome the hurt they have been through.
As much training as I have had in TWI it doesn't hold an ounce to the simple believing that God loves his kids and desires great joy, peace, love, temperence, longsuffering etc.. in their hearts ....... he wants to bless us, trust him and allow him to bless you.
If some of you care to read what I posted a bit slower you might see that I take exception to Mark calling what I still believe much of , 'perverted'.
If a number of you don't believe what was taught, fine.
My main point was that someone who believes that Mary is the 'queen of heaven',and the 'mother of God', Jesus is God, the dead are alive now, the pope is 'infallible', contaception is wrong etc.. etc..
shouldn't be too quick in calling other peoples beliefs 'perverted'. Where I come from thats called 'hypocritical'.
I beg your pardon Allan, but your *main point* seems to have been nothing more than to attack personally Mark, temple lady and any others with whom you disagree, instead of countering their posts intellegently, so that others may consider your point of view.
I would like to see what you could contribute of value here....maybe allow us to see what lies undernieth all of that venom.....
With all of the hate and venom you are not able to present a very creditable example of what you believe.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
mark
ditto on the class act
thanks to you i hvae retuned to the church and find much peace there
we have a young pastor who is a wonderful loving man
he is taking care of 4 churches
when i asked him what i had to do to return to the church after 40 years he said all catholics are welcome back home
he said i had to do a cofession to recieve communion so i did in a real simple way
i said that god had ten commadments and that i had broken every one of the except one many times
}thou shall not kill} he invited me to the rectery for coffee and brandy
it sure is good to be home again
thank you mark
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Belle
That's awesome, Chef! That's how it should be! Open arms and no condemnation. I'm happy for you!
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penguin
I figure I need to show up again on this thread. I wanted to clarify that I do not blame God for what happened to me. In my original post I said "what I thought was God's representatives" not God. I know it was my own free will/stupid choices. Even though I can logically tell myself why it wasn't God's fault, that God is always good and faithful etc. I still hesitate to really let go and trust Him--I need to be in control, plan it out, figure out how to get deliverance etc.
What has really helped me is that He has reminded me of at least one time where there was a definite opportunity to rethink what I had gotten involved in. Unfortunately, as a new grad of the foundational class, I had already became too egotistical and prideful and resisted Him during the whole 3 day event I was participating in. I mostly was questioning my own discernment and ability to hear Him for the
many years I was in.
Maybe I should just say the
made me do it? :D
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Digitalis
Penguin
Wow Darling what a reply on one of your first topics. I thought it was great chatting with you in the chat room the other night and am glad to see you here.
We were taught by TWI and taught many things via TWI, such as sickness came because are believing was faulty, or we had no abundance in our lives because we weren't giving abundantly in our finances. People outside of twi were often considered filled with devil spirits if they refused to be witnessed to and come to twi fellowships, and of course if they weren't part of TWI we were not to hang out with them, the word said so according to TWI not to hang around with unbelievers or those who were not equally yoked ... But JC hung around thousands of people who did no know as much of Gods word as he did because it was those that God wanted to reach.
In my opinion. Many thought they were putting there trust in God when in all actuallity they were putting there trust in the words spoken by TWI, including myself for a time. It was us believing in TWI and not believing in God much of the time and this was our own downfall and thus the reason many of us found our way out of the Way eventually, and thank God for that. But we can't blame God for faulty doctrine taught by TWI.
Did we have the right to Tempt God ........ We always thanked him for stuff in prayers as if he should have it handled and provided it such as making it to the advance class or to the rock and if we thanked God in prayer and were unable to make it our believeing was not up to par. Of course the Rock was done away with after awhile along with other programs but we were still put in that position.
What God choses is right for us not what twi chose for us. I now have learned that I can thank God for the daily food on our table and the roof over our head which he has promised his childrens and believe it or not .......... instead of thanking him for that new car we needed ....... I asked him for it and I received it, thus I knew we really did need it. I no longer want to feel like I am tempting God in my prayers and thanking him before I receive what he wants to give me. I thank him all the time don't get me wrong but also ask him for help in situations.b If I believe I have need and ask him I shall receive my needs and sometimes my wants to and of course my first thought upon receiving is Thank You Father. This way I don't feel like I am tempting him to get me what I ask for but asking him. Many people in the bible asked God for his help and received it and of course then thanked him.
When I owned my flower shop I always ended my letters with possibly problems to other companys, "Thank you in advance for your cooperation" trying to get them to cooperate because I thanked them before they actually cooperated with me, it was tempting them to cooperate. Now in writing letter I simply let someone know "I would appreciate your attention on this matter" ........
Just like Jesus Christ said "Thou Shalt Not Tempt Thy Lord Thy God" .......... well we shouldn't tempt him either and just simply allow him to be our father who truly wants to give to his chilren. He knows our hearts. How I do things now and how someone else does things may not be the same but God knows my our heart and knows I don't want to tempt him to have to do a miraculous healing but I sure would appreciate it.
Twi taught some basic principles that I am thankful to know ........ I have kept the basics because I haven't thrown the baby out with the bath water but there was a time the baby was a floating away down the drain and I had to retrieve what was basic.
There are a lot of principles and especially practical application of the Word I feel we need to undo that TWI taught us, along with some later doctrinal error as well. Many individuals situations were compared with other indivuals in the bible ......... each situation is not identical and God told us not to compare ourselves with others, yet in TWi it happened all the time. Someone in fellowship would have done something that the leader would have compared them with someone else in the bible and let them know that they would suffer the same fate. Well those situations were wrong by TWI and many of us had the biblical information in our heads to stop it but we were so caught up in it it took awhile to clear the smog in our brains.
Many times we gave our needs away in TWI because that was what was asked of us. In my early years we had three small children and I remember my husband and I having to get to advance class and the rock and having three kids ...... my husband worked for school district which means in summer months he had to find a job for 2 1/2 months only when the kids were little, not many people want to hire you for such a short term but when that job is needed and provided for him he should take advantage of it and take care of his famlies needs. Instead we had to make these events two years in a row and my husband was without pay check for three months actually a forth because he got paid monthly and when he returned to work the end of August he didn't receive a paycheck til the end of Septembmer. We sold just about everything we owned, so as not to go into credit card debt to go two summers in a row down to RomeCity and Ohio. This was not Godly. God tells my husband to take care of his family first if he is married not TWi. He was to love his wife and take care of her as Chrit did the church and leave me without spot or wrinkle but boy did those two years give me a blemish or two.......... It has been many years and two of our children our old enough to be out on their own but my husband looks back at those two years and still hurts no matter how much we have been blessed since time.
But,
My husband was under the thumb of the limb and told his believing wasn't sufficient during those two years so long ago. Well it had been sufficient, God had provided my husband with what he needed, it was that we allowed by free will to let TWI take that which God had provided us away. Not Gods fault, really not even TWIs it was our fault for listening to a perverse and twisted minister. We were living abundantly but we sold our abundance and our need those summers to do what TWI wanted .......... it had nothing to do with God.
Do I believe in God and trust God .......... Yes .......... we still have opportunities come up today but they are always handled. God always provides. We own acreage in the most beautiful winter spot in the world. I look out my windown and see the glorious mountains that surround the valley we live in all toppled with snow and that picture alone brings me peace in my heart, knowing that God exists and brought us to this place for our hearts to heal, not only brought us to it but we bought it, its ours. I know in my heart that God still has plans for me and my husband. I know that my last child at home has grown up with the basics of the word without TWI surrounding him, beating him with a wooden spoon and telling him how bad his is. This blessing is from God our sons tremendous heart, his believing is so simple. I truly desire for my believing in God and trusting God to be as simple as my sons because it is a beautiful thing. My son at 12 yrs old walks in peace. He fellowships daily with his parents and loves God.
Penguin I hope you can find it in your heart to put away TWI and trust God. I still think those who suffered from TWI need to know the truth of what happened and people show up here new all the time. Its may seem like a broken record to some to repeat discussions that have already been brought up but as long as there are questions of this great importance hanging out I believe that they need to be handled for Gods sake because I know I suffer for my own children when they are hurting, let God be blessed with his children and steps they have taken to overcome the hurt they have been through.
As much training as I have had in TWI it doesn't hold an ounce to the simple believing that God loves his kids and desires great joy, peace, love, temperence, longsuffering etc.. in their hearts ....... he wants to bless us, trust him and allow him to bless you.
Digi
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Allan
If some of you care to read what I posted a bit slower you might see that I take exception to Mark calling what I still believe much of , 'perverted'.
If a number of you don't believe what was taught, fine.
My main point was that someone who believes that Mary is the 'queen of heaven',and the 'mother of God', Jesus is God, the dead are alive now, the pope is 'infallible', contaception is wrong etc.. etc..
shouldn't be too quick in calling other peoples beliefs 'perverted'. Where I come from thats called 'hypocritical'.
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rascal
I beg your pardon Allan, but your *main point* seems to have been nothing more than to attack personally Mark, temple lady and any others with whom you disagree, instead of countering their posts intellegently, so that others may consider your point of view.
I would like to see what you could contribute of value here....maybe allow us to see what lies undernieth all of that venom.....
With all of the hate and venom you are not able to present a very creditable example of what you believe.
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oldiesman
Yeah Allan, please be more sweet and loving.
Like Rascal.
*cough*
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rascal
Wipe the froth off your lip oldies <_<
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
thank you belle
i am looking foward to mass tommorow night
thank you belle
i am looking foward to mass tommorow night
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excathedra
catholic, jehovah w., mormon, protestant, twi, dah dah dah
it's all the same to me
oops except for the fact that catholic and twi just about destroyed most lives dear to me
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
belle you seem to be a wonderful person
but so full of bitterness
i wish i could helpl you overcome this
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cheranne
Anytime a human is subject to any form of abuse and is silent for a period of time
to include spiritual abuse!
Anger is the backbone that makes them stand up and fight for what is just!
It is okay and even healthy to have that anger and to speak out against the wrong doers.
We don't want that to happen to more people and because of Love we have that anger.
It is like protecting your family from harm.
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