I sold my house at the direction of leadership. I think I got about $43,000 for it. That same house is now worth about $110,000.
If I kept that house, I could sell it now and be living in a decent house in a decent neighborhood instead of renting a crappy house in a crappy neighborhood.
I sold my house at the direction of leadership. I think I got about $43,000 for it. That same house is now worth about $110,000.
If I kept that house, I could sell it now and be living in a decent house in a decent neighborhood instead of renting a crappy house in a crappy neighborhood.
Morgan,
You are definitely not alone. Scores of twi followers did the SAME THING.
That's why......TWI FEARS A CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT.
Twi has misguided sooooo many. In fact, I heard from a very reliable source that Howard Allen's advice to a clergy couple around 1996 or 1997 ended in prison sentences for both husband/wife for tax evasion.
Thanks Howard.
You'd think that twi's "treasurer" would have known better......ya think???
Hey Morgan, we did it too. We got to pay capital gains tax plus a higher monthly amount in rent than our mortgage, too, so we could get financially blessed. That was how we were counselled as the godly way to take care of some big medical bills--get rid of the mortgage(bad, bad!), move to the limb where the word was HOT, and all would be well.
We were such suckers!
In case you're wondering, it didn't work. We were in a finacial quagmire for YEARS, which did not endear us to TWI leadership.
The top reason I left the WC was because I looked around at all the single people who (sometimes desperately) wanted to be married and I felt my own internal desperation. I knew I needed to be married. As a youth, I always looked with great admiration at the love and respect between my parents and wanted the same thing for myself but as the years passed, I become more involved with TWI at the exclusion of my personal dream to be married.
I had heard that a person could "renew their mind" to marry anybody but my renewed mind lacked the conviction to marry without sexual chemistry or at least, attraction or some sort. I had no intention to marry just to "move the word" that to me was like screwing for pregancy. You get the result but lose the greatness of the process.
So I left during my last year of the WC and foundered for many, many months; lost, lonely, cast out and cast aside. Then I found my spouse. Our first meeting was like God shining a light down on the person and the smells in the air and beauty of the person wrapped my senses in a knot around them. That person was, is and has been for these last 10 years my forever friend. God gave me the desire of my heart.
I know you know that you did the right thing to step back. I congratulate you on it with hearty approbation". Now cushion this with the fact that I'm an "innie" and have been for several years again. But I had to step back to gain perspective. Now I'm not saying you should come back or anything like that; people have their own experiences and their own processes and those burned worse than others will never be firefighters again. However, I congratulate you for your bold and courageous step back. It's painful but the more you massage the bruises where the chains wrapped your legs together, the better it will feel and faster you will heal.
TWI is not God and now I recognize that I have my walk with God as an individual. I love the good things about the ministry, just like I love the good things about my spouse but my perspective is different and it is a very good thing you are gaining that. Getting too involved in TWI is like Alice in Wonderland; falling down a rabbit hole. I bring people to the ministry for the same reason as I left it; to gain perspective.
God's Word is profitable in all situations but sometimes the practical application of it needs to be modified through perspective. I love my Way friends but my "real" friends are the ones who love me for me; not just when I'm showing up or speaking the "right" things. What is real but friends and family? When the TWI threw me out, they caught me, even though I had cast THEM aside to follow TWI.
As one of my wonderful friends said to me once; never burn a bridge that you might have to cross back over again.
I had heard that a person could "renew their mind" to marry anybody but my renewed mind lacked the conviction to marry without sexual chemistry or at least, attraction or some sort. I had no intention to marry just to "move the word" that to me was like screwing for pregancy. You get the result but lose the greatness of the process.
Thin Lizzy,
Yeah...........that was one of veepee's concepts, or simply.......WRONG DOCTRINE. Veepee started pushing this wrong doctrine in 1979 (?) or thereabouts. IMO, veepee was trying to keep the gene pool and the money pool within the confines of twi. :)
.....Getting too involved in TWI is like Alice in Wonderland; falling down a rabbit hole.
Yeah...........I've seen this over the years. CORPS QUIT......and become corps alumni or ADVANCED CLASS GRADS REFUSE TO FOLLOW TWI-DICTATES......and buy a house (and forfeit their "rights" to attend future adv class special and/or run home fellowships)........or INNIES GO TO FELLOWSHIP but they govern their own ship and steer it to safe habors rather than follow twi's perilous commands.
To me........IF THE PRACTICAL SIDE WAS OFF THE WORD........SO WAS THE DOCTRINAL.
Thus. the DEEP DISCONTENT.......boiled over, and out the door I went.
AUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH.....the *any two believers can be married* doctrine.......so many people were messed up by that.... One tended to overlook faults like excessive drinking or harshness...asssuming that as *believers* they could make it work......Many a person found themselves completely overwhelmed with issues that they were unprepared to deal with based on this silly assumption.
ROFL my spouse n I believed that .....after we left twi much to our dismay......Mr. oh so logical and frugal found out he was married to an emotional animal loving nut job.....
Every time he comes home there is a new stray...be it canine feline or equine....that needs to be fed and vet bills......
Trying to get my spouse away from the puters which are his passion to enjoy horses which are mine....well it just doesn`t happen......lol
Here is wonder Dad that wanted a big family married to a woman who didn`t even LIKE children in the beginning....lol (we have 7)
It can work...but it sure is a rocky road.....how much nicer to marry someone with whom you have similar values and interests.....
Now the kids are big enough that some of em hang out n do what Dad likes and some of em hang out and persue my interests.... :D
Most if the folks I knew while in were married believing that....I don`t know many marriages that survived when people woke up and found out who they really were.
I object to the baggage-filled and meaning-less wayspeak codeword "moving the Word". It is descriptive of absolutely nothing.
Agreed. I always had a problem with this phrase even when I first heard it because it suggests that "the word" is not strong enough on its own to be of appeal to anyone. No , it takes a Way "amabassador" to make it "real" to someone else. So its like the bible is secondary much in the same way Jesus Christ was made secondary when they came up with that "absent Christ" concept. The goal of TWI has always been to make itself more essential than the bible. If you look at their website on the "research" page there is a picture there which illustrates this idea magnificently. It might be helpful to load up the pic at this point.
Anyway the bible is to the left of a legal pad with a concordance to the right of that. But most prominent of all in the pic are Way (or Way approvded) publications that tell the follower what the bible "Really" means. But the legal pad is the mind blower. Thats what you use to write down all that "hot present truth" which tells us that TWI wants to verbally convey the "truth" and have us accept it as reality. Then we are to look back to the publications and books and then *maybe* pick up that bible thats over on the left. Note that the lamp is over the ooncordance and NOT the Bible. This picture says it all. The Bible is a secondary book for TWI. They sure talk about it a lot and bring out verses but they don't want you to read the bible or enjoy it without first using their filters (verbal teaching and publications) so you will get out of the bible what they want you to.
Twi's rationale for "moving the Word" as I saw it, is the following:
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even]in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
snort ... that was simply the bait to lure us into the trap friend oldies.....
Suuuuuure ... It sounded good, it had to in order to put folks at ease, to disarmed our suspicions.
We never would have participated had we known what the real agenda was going to be, what the real cost to ourselves was going to be....
TWI HAD to have reasonable, plausible explanations for outragious expectations they required ..... or we would never have stood for it.
Absolutely ... the verses you quoted and others were used......but then scriptures were what were used to manuver us into so many untenable situations.
They HAD to have valid sounding biblical excuses for dividing families, taking our money, destroying marriages, insisting on abortions, snooping through finances, controlling who with/where we lived.... decided what jobs were acceptable... justify face meltings ...justify adultery and fornication....(the *all things lawfull to them which are in Christ* doctrine covered a large area :( )
Scriptural documentation means squat when you look how the verses were used to manipulate folks.
It always boiled down to do what twi said because they had scriptural back up or *%^#* off God :(
I always wondered where we were moving the word TO? Did we need a dolly and a U-Haul? Once we got it there were we going to have to move it again? Who was paying for all this moving and why couldn't it just stay put somewhere?
......but then scriptures were what were used to manuver us into so many untenable situations.
They HAD to have valid sounding biblical excuses for dividing families, taking our money, destroying marriages, insisting on abortions, snooping through finances, controlling who with/where we lived.... decided what jobs were acceptable... justify face meltings ...justify adultery and fornication....(the *all things lawfull to them which are in Christ* doctrine covered a large area :( )
Scriptural documentation means squat when you look how the verses were used to manipulate folks.
Taking from pfal.........."There is no God". Twi twisted everything to meet their own justification in any way to make their point for the few making a living off of this racquet. Raping, driving people to suicide, brainwashing to just plain abuse and none of this was their fault, talk about General devil spirits. Everything they did was "right on with the Word" Until they got caught. Their dirty little secrets exposed in court, waydale and here for everyone to see. There is no God at twi, only god. Remember the devil knows the bible inside and out too and will deceive people to thinking it is the truth and he(the devil) wants you to believe it and he did to us. Greed did them in
Rascal, I agree. Every act we were to perform, every new leadership control device--the budgets we were supossed to keep, which leadership could have access too, the schedules, two byb two etc. were tied in tidy TWI teachings with the 'new 'stuff neatly added to old familiar Bible verses we'd heard many times before. Protection of the household, planning the adversary out of our lives...
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Morgan
I sold my house at the direction of leadership. I think I got about $43,000 for it. That same house is now worth about $110,000.
If I kept that house, I could sell it now and be living in a decent house in a decent neighborhood instead of renting a crappy house in a crappy neighborhood.
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skyrider
Morgan,
You are definitely not alone. Scores of twi followers did the SAME THING.
That's why......TWI FEARS A CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT.
Twi has misguided sooooo many. In fact, I heard from a very reliable source that Howard Allen's advice to a clergy couple around 1996 or 1997 ended in prison sentences for both husband/wife for tax evasion.
Thanks Howard.
You'd think that twi's "treasurer" would have known better......ya think???
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Bramble
Hey Morgan, we did it too. We got to pay capital gains tax plus a higher monthly amount in rent than our mortgage, too, so we could get financially blessed. That was how we were counselled as the godly way to take care of some big medical bills--get rid of the mortgage(bad, bad!), move to the limb where the word was HOT, and all would be well.
We were such suckers!
In case you're wondering, it didn't work. We were in a finacial quagmire for YEARS, which did not endear us to TWI leadership.
Our finances are healthy now.
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likeaneagle
We are talking about houses being sold..I had a friend told to him by his TC at the time he didnt have to pay child support....twisted.
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Thin Lizzy
Dear I Love Bagpipes,
The top reason I left the WC was because I looked around at all the single people who (sometimes desperately) wanted to be married and I felt my own internal desperation. I knew I needed to be married. As a youth, I always looked with great admiration at the love and respect between my parents and wanted the same thing for myself but as the years passed, I become more involved with TWI at the exclusion of my personal dream to be married.
I had heard that a person could "renew their mind" to marry anybody but my renewed mind lacked the conviction to marry without sexual chemistry or at least, attraction or some sort. I had no intention to marry just to "move the word" that to me was like screwing for pregancy. You get the result but lose the greatness of the process.
So I left during my last year of the WC and foundered for many, many months; lost, lonely, cast out and cast aside. Then I found my spouse. Our first meeting was like God shining a light down on the person and the smells in the air and beauty of the person wrapped my senses in a knot around them. That person was, is and has been for these last 10 years my forever friend. God gave me the desire of my heart.
I know you know that you did the right thing to step back. I congratulate you on it with hearty approbation". Now cushion this with the fact that I'm an "innie" and have been for several years again. But I had to step back to gain perspective. Now I'm not saying you should come back or anything like that; people have their own experiences and their own processes and those burned worse than others will never be firefighters again. However, I congratulate you for your bold and courageous step back. It's painful but the more you massage the bruises where the chains wrapped your legs together, the better it will feel and faster you will heal.
TWI is not God and now I recognize that I have my walk with God as an individual. I love the good things about the ministry, just like I love the good things about my spouse but my perspective is different and it is a very good thing you are gaining that. Getting too involved in TWI is like Alice in Wonderland; falling down a rabbit hole. I bring people to the ministry for the same reason as I left it; to gain perspective.
God's Word is profitable in all situations but sometimes the practical application of it needs to be modified through perspective. I love my Way friends but my "real" friends are the ones who love me for me; not just when I'm showing up or speaking the "right" things. What is real but friends and family? When the TWI threw me out, they caught me, even though I had cast THEM aside to follow TWI.
As one of my wonderful friends said to me once; never burn a bridge that you might have to cross back over again.
GOOD ON YOU, MATEY.
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skyrider
Yeah...........that was one of veepee's concepts, or simply.......WRONG DOCTRINE. Veepee started pushing this wrong doctrine in 1979 (?) or thereabouts. IMO, veepee was trying to keep the gene pool and the money pool within the confines of twi. :)
Yeah...........I've seen this over the years. CORPS QUIT......and become corps alumni or ADVANCED CLASS GRADS REFUSE TO FOLLOW TWI-DICTATES......and buy a house (and forfeit their "rights" to attend future adv class special and/or run home fellowships)........or INNIES GO TO FELLOWSHIP but they govern their own ship and steer it to safe habors rather than follow twi's perilous commands.
To me........IF THE PRACTICAL SIDE WAS OFF THE WORD........SO WAS THE DOCTRINAL.
Thus. the DEEP DISCONTENT.......boiled over, and out the door I went.
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rascal
AUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH.....the *any two believers can be married* doctrine.......so many people were messed up by that.... One tended to overlook faults like excessive drinking or harshness...asssuming that as *believers* they could make it work......Many a person found themselves completely overwhelmed with issues that they were unprepared to deal with based on this silly assumption.
ROFL my spouse n I believed that .....after we left twi much to our dismay......Mr. oh so logical and frugal found out he was married to an emotional animal loving nut job.....
Every time he comes home there is a new stray...be it canine feline or equine....that needs to be fed and vet bills......
Trying to get my spouse away from the puters which are his passion to enjoy horses which are mine....well it just doesn`t happen......lol
Here is wonder Dad that wanted a big family married to a woman who didn`t even LIKE children in the beginning....lol (we have 7)
It can work...but it sure is a rocky road.....how much nicer to marry someone with whom you have similar values and interests.....
Now the kids are big enough that some of em hang out n do what Dad likes and some of em hang out and persue my interests.... :D
Most if the folks I knew while in were married believing that....I don`t know many marriages that survived when people woke up and found out who they really were.
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diazbro
Agreed. I always had a problem with this phrase even when I first heard it because it suggests that "the word" is not strong enough on its own to be of appeal to anyone. No , it takes a Way "amabassador" to make it "real" to someone else. So its like the bible is secondary much in the same way Jesus Christ was made secondary when they came up with that "absent Christ" concept. The goal of TWI has always been to make itself more essential than the bible. If you look at their website on the "research" page there is a picture there which illustrates this idea magnificently. It might be helpful to load up the pic at this point.
Anyway the bible is to the left of a legal pad with a concordance to the right of that. But most prominent of all in the pic are Way (or Way approvded) publications that tell the follower what the bible "Really" means. But the legal pad is the mind blower. Thats what you use to write down all that "hot present truth" which tells us that TWI wants to verbally convey the "truth" and have us accept it as reality. Then we are to look back to the publications and books and then *maybe* pick up that bible thats over on the left. Note that the lamp is over the ooncordance and NOT the Bible. This picture says it all. The Bible is a secondary book for TWI. They sure talk about it a lot and bring out verses but they don't want you to read the bible or enjoy it without first using their filters (verbal teaching and publications) so you will get out of the bible what they want you to.
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oldiesman
Twi's rationale for "moving the Word" as I saw it, is the following:
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rascal
snort ... that was simply the bait to lure us into the trap friend oldies.....
Suuuuuure ... It sounded good, it had to in order to put folks at ease, to disarmed our suspicions.
We never would have participated had we known what the real agenda was going to be, what the real cost to ourselves was going to be....
TWI HAD to have reasonable, plausible explanations for outragious expectations they required ..... or we would never have stood for it.
Absolutely ... the verses you quoted and others were used......but then scriptures were what were used to manuver us into so many untenable situations.
They HAD to have valid sounding biblical excuses for dividing families, taking our money, destroying marriages, insisting on abortions, snooping through finances, controlling who with/where we lived.... decided what jobs were acceptable... justify face meltings ...justify adultery and fornication....(the *all things lawfull to them which are in Christ* doctrine covered a large area :( )
Scriptural documentation means squat when you look how the verses were used to manipulate folks.
It always boiled down to do what twi said because they had scriptural back up or *%^#* off God :(
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oldiesman
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Belle
I always wondered where we were moving the word TO? Did we need a dolly and a U-Haul? Once we got it there were we going to have to move it again? Who was paying for all this moving and why couldn't it just stay put somewhere?
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justloafing
Taking from pfal.........."There is no God". Twi twisted everything to meet their own justification in any way to make their point for the few making a living off of this racquet. Raping, driving people to suicide, brainwashing to just plain abuse and none of this was their fault, talk about General devil spirits. Everything they did was "right on with the Word" Until they got caught. Their dirty little secrets exposed in court, waydale and here for everyone to see. There is no God at twi, only god. Remember the devil knows the bible inside and out too and will deceive people to thinking it is the truth and he(the devil) wants you to believe it and he did to us. Greed did them in
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Bramble
Rascal, I agree. Every act we were to perform, every new leadership control device--the budgets we were supossed to keep, which leadership could have access too, the schedules, two byb two etc. were tied in tidy TWI teachings with the 'new 'stuff neatly added to old familiar Bible verses we'd heard many times before. Protection of the household, planning the adversary out of our lives...
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