What is Chris Geer doing?

[HCW]

Remember, Geer was widely regarded as VPW's 'right hand man' at the time. Basically, since it was shortly after VPW's death, Geer was successful in manipulating the grief and uncertainty into one helluva guilt trip for the TWI leadership, particularly since he evidently convinced them of VPW's 'displeasure' in their 'worldliness' while running TWI while poor ol' VP was left out in the cold (so to speak). That, (and a good violin background music), and you have them eating out of his hand, .... until Craiggers one day said "Waittaminute! This crap has gone on long enough!" and kicked Geer out.

Chris was considered to be one of the top guys, arguably THE top guy, in what was the consensus "best" group of WC ever at the time. He earned the position as VPW valet and driver. He succeeded Howard Allen (VP's best friend) in that position. It was inevitable that CG and VP would become close. He spent more time w/VPW than anyone, even Mrs. Chris is the type of guy that people generally either like him or hate him.

Water cooler talk about CG was that some didn't like his "superior attitude." In my experience w/ him I found him to be a little formal for most people's taste. Where HA was like VP's buddy who drove him around CG was like "Alfred", Batman's butler. My east coast attitude wasn't fazed by his being a little curt at times. He didn't have a problem telling folks no, he'd just look you in the the eye and say things that maybe you didn't want to hear. Plus he didn't seem to care or be fazed at all if you didn't like him. That itself didn't do much to endear people to him. Basically everone respected him though.

The Trustees approved of CG's presentation of POP. LCM even introduced him as their guest and acknowledged that they were aware of the content of the document. He said they agreed unanimously that the content contained therein was true and that the accounts mentioned were factual representations of the events. They went into some detail to confirm that VP and Chris were, in fact together during the times mentioned. All of us who were on staff at HQ at the time were aware that VP was away but we didn't know where he was, which was unusual we "always" knew VP's inerary and in the old days we'd actually get off work to line the driveway to welcome him home.

They didn't buy into POP because of being manipulated in CG's coup attempt. They said, "We are signing our names to this document to confirm it as being true and our signatures represent our commitment as a united Board of trustees to turn the ministry back toward God."

The "famous leaders meetings" were where they exposed and discussed in detail the events and attitudes referred to in POP. It wasn't about nebulous worldly behavior. It was supposedly names, dates, activities, etc. all undeniable evidence that the trustees were up to no good. I say supposedly only because I didn't attend the leaders meetings. Dept. Coordinators and trustee cabinet members did. They were told to take notes and relate what was said to us staff because we didn't want to shut HQ down so everyone coud attend.

My dept Coordinator admittedly wimped out and refused to tell us all of the details. He said it was too personally shocking for him to repeat and that it should suffice for us that what Chris said was true and that the trustees had done "some really bad stuff." This P,O'ed me, of course. I wanted to know everything. I felt that if they had done some criminal stuff they should fry for it. He said "the word says we shouldn't take believers to court. I said B.S! We argued, I lost.

During the POP fallout, "everybody who was anybody" in the ministry went to Gartmore and they ALL came back singing the praises of CG and how God lived there like He once did at HQ. They shared at night owls, Sunday AM fellowships, hoot owls etc, ad nausium of how they had forgotten what living in the presence of God felt like and how it had eroded from HQ and how HQ had become "cold and corporate."

LCM said stuff like that too. I got sick of hearing of how bad I was and how I had turned away from God with their blanket reasoning. I was like "speak for yourself," you jerk. Don't accuse ME of the crap you've somehow been blind to in your own life and had to fly accross the darn ocean to "see."

Point being that CG had an endorsement that went WAY beyond LCM. Literally hundreds of top leadership heard the crap, confirmed the BS, and endorsed CG. It was well after literally hundreds of HQ staff were fired and about 75% of active WC had voluntarily left TWI when we refused to swear allegiance to LCM and the BOT, as opposed to GOD and Jesus Christ... basically EVERYONE who would stand up and call LCM a liar to his face was GONE from the ministry when LCM declared Chris to be possessed with general level devil spirits and a manipulator of a regiment of spirits who decieved him, them and everyone who agreed that POP was true.

I'm not defending Chris, but LCM HAD to villify him in the worst of ways to salvage his Presidency. There were people left on staff who had sworn his allegience, WC on the field and rank & file believers who knew of his endorsement of Cg and confirmation of Chris' allegations of trustee wrongdoings including the ATTEMPTED MURDER of Ricardo Caballero. I was up front at Corps week with my camera, as usual, when CG came in, interrupted the goings on and busted them with...

"You not only have NOT turned back to God, You haven't even attempted to... AND you've covered up your activities. You have sabotauged (sp?) the efforts of the new trustees to set things straight and even made things WORSE than they were. There has even been an attempted murder that General Caballero had to dispatch a military unit to safe the life of the target!..."

The BOT admitted to THAT too, right there, main stage during Corps week in front of about 8,000 WC. (About 7,950 of whom are now M&A.)

I don't know for a fact that CG wasn't trying to sieze "the throne" of TWI. I do know he already had the "throne" in Europe. He was the leader of the second "trunk" in what was generally considered to be the place where God had turned his favor to. The trunk of Europe was supposedly unaffected bu the BOT's transgressions, as was the work in Africa and South America which was continuing to grow at rates like the US had grown. They were seeing book of Acts types of signs miracles amd wonders all over TWI ministries in Zaire and where Ricardo lived in South America. While the US growth had leveled off they were still on a steady upwards path.

I don't know what CG's doing these days. I know that Ricardo C. and Johnny T. both resigned from the BOT after throwing their hands up. If CG was only a power mad A-hole, there still were events that occurred, people that were hurt that he gave factual accounts of. I, for one am glad he tore the lid off the sucka.

Sorry bout the length.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

HCW...Great post...very informative. Many of us here recall those events vividly but there are many others here who were not around in those days who will find your post extremely enlightening.

I recall when the infamous "clergy meeting" happened...folks all over the country were rife with questions, Many clergy went to that meeting with an attitude of "I will get to the bottom of this and report the facts to you when I return"...some did and some wimped out...glossing things over with cliches and blanket statements...

The clergy in my area wimped out...when they returned from that meeting, they were "white as sheets" and simply told us to "stay the course", etc, etc...I decided to go visit a dear friend of mine...a guy from my home town that I had grown up with, that I had got into the ministry, a guy that I lived with for a number of years, one of my best friends in the whole world and whom I trusted totally...he was also an ordained clergy (limb leader at the time) and was at that meeting...WELL...He told me things that made the hair on my neck stand up...he spilled his guts and told me EVERYTHING he knew...He was one of only 3 clergy who got up and walked out of that meeting. After I returned to my area, I reported to the clergy and told him what I knew and started questioning him...three days later, the entire area was told to "have no contact with me"...and the believers that I was living with ( a married couple) were told to boot me out!...Much to their credit, they told me I could stay with them as long as I wanted...

In the final analysis, I felt that the choices were clear...either stand with twi or stand on the word...it was not possible to do both....and I was very disapointed in a LOT of twi leadership that chose to stand with twi, when it was clear that twi was "out to lunch"...

A side note...My clergy friend that I had visited had received numerous threatening phone calls from HA...I was present during one of them...My friend put the phone call on "speaker" and I heard the entire conversation...I couldn't believe my ears!

As far as the "conflict" between Geer and LCM and the rest of the top dogs who were involved...I thought that they were ALL wrong...Geer's POP paper was iconoclastic and inflamatory ( if it was to be believed at all)...At the time I felt that if Geer was the guy who they were turning to, that the problems were even worse than most imagined...

Wierwiile's personality and charisma had held everyone together for years...after his death, the fruit of all the wrong twi doctrine and the ego trips came crashing down on twi like a sledge hammer. The details of this time period are enlightening but looking back, the end result was predictable.

[jkboehme]

Sure wish I had known all the info in HCW's & GMJ's posts in 1986.

So many of us didn't know where to turn to obtain reliable answers, therefore we felt confused & somehow guilty.

The BOTs were painfully quiet on SNS tapes about POP, Schoenheit, etc. This silence was criminal in my opinion.

[Belle]

Thanks, HCW. I always appreciate your taking the time to type all these things out, especially since I was not around during those times.

I'm not defending Chris, but LCM HAD to villify him in the worst of ways to salvage his Presidency. There were people left on staff who had sworn his allegience, WC on the field and rank & file believers who knew of his endorsement of Cg and confirmation of Chris' allegations of trustee wrongdoings including the ATTEMPTED MURDER of Ricardo Caballero. I was up front at Corps week with my camera, as usual, when CG came in, interrupted the goings on and busted them with...

"You not only have NOT turned back to God, You haven't even attempted to... AND you've covered up your activities. You have sabotauged (sp?) the efforts of the new trustees to set things straight and even made things WORSE than they were. There has even been an attempted murder that General Caballero had to dispatch a military unit to safe the life of the target!..."

The BOT admitted to THAT too, right there, main stage during Corps week in front of about 8,000 WC. (About 7,950 of whom are now M&A.)

UNREAL!! UN-FRIGGIN-BELIEVEABLE!!

The BOT (LCM, HA and Don) admittedto attempting murder?? *shaking head* People knew of this and STAYED WITH TWI?? :huh:

I never knew of or heard of CG until coming to WayDale and Gspot, but from your account above it sounds like the guy did us all a favor by calling the BOT on the carpet and publicly at that. I'm in shock.... I don't know what to think..... I'd LIKE to think that if I had known something like that went down prior to my involvement with TWI that I would have run toward the door, but looking at all I put up with for the past ten years, I can't honsetly say that I would have. It would have been easier for my parents to try to convince me to leave, though.

:blink: I'm just floored....totally speechless....

[likeaneagle]

Belle- I didnt know about the POP either, I wasnt around for all that happened "in the Fog" days..of course, everything was hush hush from inside.....so, I spent over an hr. reading the POP, totaly shocked, and my heart was alarmed the whole time...........freaking crazy......I left in 2000, and am so imased at how folks inside have no clue either...unless, they come here.

[Nottawayfer]

LCM made himself look like he had been beat up by CG and others. He said he was on his way to resign from being president. Someone stopped him along the way to the OSC and said "God bless you, Rev. Martindale." He said that was his light that he needed to stay, and he got ugly after that. You know the rest is history.

After that he and others said that CG had familiar spirits. His secretary said that every time CG had come to LCM's office she kept seeing VPW. It's all so confusing and creepy.

I wished I could have heard the tapes on LCM's explanation on the whole thing. I'm sure I would laugh my arse off now....:)

[Nottawayfer]

Quote by HCW:

"My dept Coordinator admittedly wimped out and refused to tell us all of the details. He said it was too personally shocking for him to repeat and that it should suffice for us that what Chris said was true and that the trustees had done "some really bad stuff." This P,O'ed me, of course. I wanted to know everything. I felt that if they had done some criminal stuff they should fry for it. He said "the word says we shouldn't take believers to court. I said B.S! We argued, I lost."

I wonder why people were so hush-hush about it. When I was on Staff, much after all POP, and LCM's sins were once again aired, people were talking. I had WC friends share stuff from Corps meetings.

I remember the quietness though. I dated a 17th Corps guys, and even that jerk wouldn't tell me anything. I was in Texas at the time. I volunteered at the Territory coordinator's house when he had Branch coordinator meetings. There were about 5 or 6 Branch coordinators. I remember lots of yelling and turmoil, but we were escorted to an area where we couldn't hear this. We were preparing meals and cleaning while all of their meetings were going on.

I look back after hearing a lot of this and think: "Wow." If I had known the BOT had attempted murder and admitted to it, I would have made different decisions way back when.

It's almost like living it all over again hearing all of this.....unfriggin believable.

HCW, please feel free to share more if you have it.

Quote by Groucho: "After I returned to my area, I reported to the clergy and told him what I knew and started questioning him...three days later, the entire area was told to "have no contact with me"...and the believers that I was living with ( a married couple) were told to boot me out!...Much to their credit, they told me I could stay with them as long as I wanted..."

That is cool your roomies let you stay. I remember refusing to commit allegiance to LCM in 1989. My WC roommate told me I had to move. I said "NO, you move!" Nobody moved until they were ready to, but it was pretty shaky there. I left when I finally got married. I ended u kissing martinpuke's ring in 1992 though. After I got sick of CG groups. They were terrible. Not legalistic. Just flaky. IMHO. I attended "stick" (LOLOLOL!!!) fellowships for a few years in the San Franciso BayArea from 1990-1992.

[themex]

As I said before I started with The Way in The Fog Years, 1989. When LCM M&B the old Corps, those Corps did two things, some made their own way ministries and the other follow Chris Geer. Chris Geer run The Way from Gatmor, Ricardo Caballero from Argentina, All the Latin America countries report to Argentina,

in those day exist what they called Spanish Way Corps, the program was established in three countries, Argentina, Chile and Venezuela. And they move as one just change one thing the objetive rather to be "Way over the World" to Word over each country. They made national ministries. But as had been said, Chris Geer produce the teachigs from Gatmore. Also they teach and translate all the classes from VPW and Walter Cummings. The Way could not do any thing to them because Chirs Geer also own the copy right from VPW materials. Also the have The european WC.

In one ocasion Walter Cummings came over to teach the Word. Also Wolfgan Schnider from Germany.

Edited November 28, 2005 by themex

[rascal]

So mex....whatever happened to the way in central and south America?

Last I heard they had pulled away from the usa....are there any ministry folks still there?

Are there spin off groups like there are in the us?

[themex]

So mex....whatever happened to the way in central and south America?

Last I heard they had pulled away from the usa....are there any ministry folks still there?

Are there spin off groups like there are in the us?

The Way has work in most of the latina American countries. In México in Central and South America, Venezuela and Argentina are the countries with more twigs. But in each country you may find The Way and the others that follow Crhis Geer and Ricardo Caballero. I returned to The Way in 1993 to see by myself wath had happen. They used to said that: The Way does not exist any more. That everybody has left, but as you may see The Way still exist, maybe very small of what it use to be. But exist.

[excathedra]

who did the "board of trustees" attempt to murder ?

[Nottawayfer]

"I'm not defending Chris, but LCM HAD to villify him in the worst of ways to salvage his Presidency. There were people left on staff who had sworn his allegience, WC on the field and rank & file believers who knew of his endorsement of Cg and confirmation of Chris' allegations of trustee wrongdoings including the ATTEMPTED MURDER of Ricardo Caballero. I was up front at Corps week with my camera, as usual, when CG came in, interrupted the goings on and busted them with... "

Excie,

Attempted murder of Roberto Caballero. The sheet was wayyyyyy deeper than any of us thought! How come I didn't hear about this until now?????

[Jim]

Thanks HCW, great post.

[satori001]

We won't say what he's doing, but if he keeps it up he'll go blind.

[satori001]

I second excathedra's question. I haven't heard of the "murder attempt" before.

It's just shocking! A pity really. Too bad the culprits didn't all just shoot each other, in one glorious, fantastic, Mexican standoff blowout! Or better yet...

"Howard? Hey dummy. Spike the Koolaid, and no holding back ya cheap sonnafa... We don't need no stinkin' badges. Make sure Em gets a double. We're beaming up, baby!"

- C Geer, an imaginary scenario

Edited November 29, 2005 by satori001

[Nottawayfer]

We won't say what he's doing, but if he keeps it up he'll go blind.

LOLOLOLOLROLMAOROF!!! :P

[Digitalis]

In Rome City at the 1994 Advance Class .......... we were having dinner in the dining room.. Those who have been to Rome City probably remember the set up. All the rectangular tables with a head at each one and the the large circular table in the front of the room where the class instructors and bigwigs sat.

Anyway, this one dinner my girlfriend and I were asked to eat at the head circular table. This was right after the session on ectoplasm. There was a remark made that C G was brought down by ectoplasm. The story went as follows as best I can remember it;

C G was eating in the dining hall at HQ with VPWs past secretary and a few others, this was after VPW had died and there had already been an uproar between LCM and CG. The secretary was looked up and in an instant swore she saw VPW sitting right next to her looking at her. She panicked turned to look at someone else at the table for help, when she looked back she realized she was looking at CG after all, it wasn't VPW.

CG was blamed for operating dem der debbul spurts and was confronted. They said the debbil spurts had used ectoplasm to change his face and that they were upfront and cocky in showing this to VPWs secretary.

....... he left immediately and held Gartmor from TWI for years ....... in fact it was I believe that same year late in 94or 95 that we got the announcement from our limb that LCM was no longer going to spend the money on lawyers to try to retrieve Gartmor back. LCM in my understanding said the place was probably swimming in debbil spurts and they wouldn't want it back anyway ....... better to spend the finances elsewhere.

Just what I heard over supper and later from our limb

Digi

[markomalley]

The Trustees approved of CG's presentation of POP. LCM ... said they agreed unanimously that the content contained therein was true and that the accounts mentioned were factual representations of the events. They went into some detail to confirm that VP and Chris were, in fact together during the times mentioned.

They didn't buy into POP because of being manipulated in CG's coup attempt. They said, "We are signing our names to this document to confirm it as being true and our signatures represent our commitment as a united Board of trustees to turn the ministry back toward God."

During the POP fallout, "everybody who was anybody" in the ministry went to Gartmore and they ALL came back singing the praises of CG and how God lived there like He once did at HQ.

Point being that CG had an endorsement that went WAY beyond LCM. Literally hundreds of top leadership heard the crap, confirmed the BS, and endorsed CG. It was well after literally hundreds of HQ staff were fired and about 75% of active WC had voluntarily left TWI when we refused to swear allegiance to LCM and the BOT, as opposed to GOD and Jesus Christ... basically EVERYONE who would stand up and call LCM a liar to his face was GONE from the ministry when LCM declared Chris to be possessed with general level devil spirits and a manipulator of a regiment of spirits who decieved him, them and everyone who agreed that POP was true.

I'm not defending Chris, but LCM HAD to villify him in the worst of ways to salvage his Presidency. There were people left on staff who had sworn his allegience, WC on the field and rank & file believers who knew of his endorsement of Cg and confirmation of Chris' allegations of trustee wrongdoings including the ATTEMPTED MURDER of Ricardo Caballero. I was up front at Corps week with my camera, as usual, when CG came in, interrupted the goings on and busted them with...

"You not only have NOT turned back to God, You haven't even attempted to... AND you've covered up your activities. You have sabotauged (sp?) the efforts of the new trustees to set things straight and even made things WORSE than they were. There has even been an attempted murder that General Caballero had to dispatch a military unit to safe the life of the target!..."

The BOT admitted to THAT too, right there, main stage during Corps week in front of about 8,000 WC. (About 7,950 of whom are now M&A.)

I don't know for a fact that CG wasn't trying to sieze "the throne" of TWI. I do know he already had the "throne" in Europe. He was the leader of the second "trunk" in what was generally considered to be the place where God had turned his favor to.

I don't know what CG's doing these days. I know that Ricardo C. and Johnny T. both resigned from the BOT after throwing their hands up. If CG was only a power mad A-hole, there still were events that occurred, people that were hurt that he gave factual accounts of. I, for one am glad he tore the lid off the sucka.

(severely snipped extract above)

Howard, if Chris Geer ever did anything good, this was it. Whether or not POP was true or not, "he tore the lid off the sucka." I, being a lowly leaf, didn't hear about POP for a long time after the fact, but when I did, that, along with being shown/ told about the "loyalty letter," were the two key events that sealed my decision to depart. For that reason alone, I am very glad for Chris Geer's being around when he was.

For all those who criticize him, consider this: had it not been for POP and the fallout during the late '80s, where would TWI be today? Instead of having a mere 3-4 thousand members (at best), they might still have 30-40 thousand. The massive DFAC surge that happened and the spate of M&As that characterized the '90s might not have happened. LCM's paranoia might never have been sparked to its full extent (So now you're really PO'd at Chris, right?)

However, the MOG worship would have still been there; the sexual abuse would still be there; the conspiracy theories would still be there; the (in some people's opinion) faulty doctrine would have still been there, and so on and so forth.

How many of you who only left as a result of being M&A'd would go back (we've had this poll question before)? How many of you only found out the truth about TWI only after you'd be involuntarily kicked out? Speaking for myself, if not for being exposed to POP, the leadership chaos, and then seeing the loyalty letter, I'd likely not have left...

When the poll's been taken here before, there are VERY few people who answer that they regret no longer being involved with TWI. Well, it's likely that the M&A purge of the 90s would not have happened had it not been for the POP reading in the 80s. So before condemning Geer, it might be good to consider that.

I appreciate you so eloquently bringing up your points, Howard. Point very well taken.

[Sunesis]

I knew him in Rye, when he was limb leader of Massachusetts, in the corps, and after I graduated. He was always very cold and aloof. My defining moment with him came when he verbally, totallly destroyed a female European corps grad early one morning during corps week. To make a long story short, she had done something "wrong" the evening before and I was told to be at VPW's courtyard at 7:00 a.m. with her, Pat Lynn, and CG. What she had done, was not a big deal, but he tore into her. Now, usually when you yell at someone, you eventually calm down eventually - not him.

He kept going, and going, and going, then his voice softened and he was speaking, but it was literally a hissing type speech - he was hissing at her. I kept thinking, he's acting like a snake! And he kept going, and going... I thought to myself, what is going on here? In a flash, the thought came to me - he's enjoying this. Whoa! That's why he's not stopping, he really is enjoying this! I watched in horrified fascination. After about 40 minutes, he finally stopped and sent her away in tears. PL and me looked at each other like WTF???!!! She was as horrified as I was. She told me to go after her and talk to her, then send her to PL at noon. I said, how can anyone possibly repair this?? But I did and spent the morning with her, and got her feeling better and then sent her to PL.

What I saw, was a sadistic sob. I had heard rumors he was part of the "sex club" as I call it and very into sadistic type things. Anyway, I was horrified, but I feel God showed me this snake like side of him for a reason.

I have never seen anyone emulate and imitate his "master" (VPW) as much as I did CG - it was sheer idolitry. I think CG was truly the only friend VPW - had, and no wonder - birds of a feather flock together don't they? They did understand each other - to the core. Also, CG was not ordained until after he graduated after he had been VP's driver for awhile. It was done privately after a SNS I believe. As I was on staff at the time, I heard that instead of a solemn affair, they both laughed and giggled the whole way through it. Strange.

I do believe though, just as God used Pharoah to let his people go, God used CG to open the floodgates for the first exodus by those of us who had grown up, were now in their thirties and were starting to see through the BS and tired of the heavy rules and regs that were inflicted on the WC. Sadly, the new, younger generation didn't see it, they were LCM men and considered us "oldsters" as out of touch.

I think God used the Allen lawsuits 10-12 years later to open the doors for those youngsters, who had now grown up, to get them out.

As for CG's appearance changing, it doesn't surprise me. If you read about mediums, many times, as they talk, the "spirit guide" will take over their face and it will change. Others call it "shape shifting." Whatever it is, I believe its spiritual - and God sometimes shows us this as a warning - look out! This is what's really behind this person.

Well, I guess he's making his money on all the suckers who still think he's a spiritual heavy and has the truth as taught by VP.

[Radar OReilly]

I may be completely off base (and wrong) with this.......but I have been told that Barbie Geer has been hospitalized (for quite a while), not at home, under the loving oversight of her husband.

Can anyone verify which is true?

Radar

[Kevlar2000]

He kept going, and going, and going, then his voice softened and he was speaking, but it was literally a hissing type speech - he was hissing at her. I kept thinking, he's acting like a snake! And he kept going, and going...

He must have been speaking Parseltongue! That's it! C G is really Lord Voldemort in disguise!

Run for the hills! He's baaaaack!

:)

[oldiesman]

... I'm not defending Chris, but LCM HAD to villify him in the worst of ways to salvage his Presidency. There were people left on staff who had sworn his allegience, WC on the field and rank & file believers who knew of his endorsement of Cg and confirmation of Chris' allegations of trustee wrongdoings including the ATTEMPTED MURDER of Ricardo Caballero. I was up front at Corps week with my camera, as usual, when CG came in, interrupted the goings on and busted them with...

"You not only have NOT turned back to God, You haven't even attempted to... AND you've covered up your activities. You have sabotauged (sp?) the efforts of the new trustees to set things straight and even made things WORSE than they were. There has even been an attempted murder that General Caballero had to dispatch a military unit to safe the life of the target!..."

The BOT admitted to THAT too, right there, main stage during Corps week in front of about 8,000 WC. (About 7,950 of whom are now M&A.) ...

HCW, I like ya. I read your stuff about the BOT ordering Ricardo Cabellero to be executed, and then admitting to same, right there on the main stage in front of 8,000 people.

Umm, please, send me some of what you been smokin'?

I want some.

Perhaps the best part of this whole tale is that the criminal conspiracy has been a secret all these years, until now revealed by YOU, HCW, right here, over 17 years later.

Golly, my little pea brain figures that it must be a real astounding thing for 8,000 folks to keep this admission of attempted murder a secret.

Until now, when one (you, HCW) reveals this truth for all of us.

Heavy baby.

Even Karl Kahler missed this one.

And he was probably right there in the audience too.

[WhiteDove]

Radar

I looked back over the family updates. I know they moved once to a new address that worked better for her and instaled a chair lift in the home. About a year ago Barbara and Chris hosted several people for a week to Critique a rough version of the first 18 sesssions of his advanced class. Thats the last I know.

There is someone here who could offer a more current update lets see if they are about and would care to jump in.

Edited November 29, 2005 by WhiteDove

[pawtucket]

The attempted murder of RC has been mentioned many times. I've never given it much credence since the story was always three or four levels away from an eye witness.

I will check some info, though. Ralph, i think, talked about it in the waydale forums.

I will try to get an update on Barbara Geer also.

[oldiesman]

The attempted murder of RC has been mentioned many times. I've never given it much credence since the story was always three or four levels away from an eye witness.

I fully understand that.

The tale has about as much credence as Chris Geer saying that the trustees murdered VP.

Consider the source.