I would recommend reading WordWolf's post at the top of this About the Way Forum. ;)
The reason some people are here is to talk about TWI, the evil and bondage and to help others who need it. That means talking about the bad stuff. :) If that's not what someone else wants to talk about they are more than welcome to do so, but to tell others where they should be in their recovery and to set limits on what they talk about is wrong, in my opinion. We got through that here every once in a while.
There are people leaving TWI every day and there are people finding GSpot every day - some of those people have been out for a long time and are shocked and relieved to find GSpot and the information, commonality and answers to things they've been dealing with for years and sometimes decades.
Not everyone on here is a Christian and GSpot is NOT a Chrisitan forum. (Allan will gladly point who believes what, but be aware that he is frequently MORE negative than what you've read here that got you upset.) Just quoting Bible verses is what made some people sick of the Bible - it doesn't really help some people, especially non-Chrisitans... It also is empty words to others when a personal word and concern are what helps. Those scriptures just sound like the TWIts when they would say, "just believe God" or "you gotta believe bigger" - it's so generic and doesn't really help. That's great if that's what comforts you and helps you, but realize that not everyone is going to appreciate the fact that there's a Bible verse for everything.
We do have "positive" threads on here. I'll try to bring a few up for you to peruse.
Um, just so ya know, Yule/Winter Solstice is an actual holiday celebrated by some non Christains, with spiritual/religious meaning to them. My family celebrated Yule from sundown last night to sundown today, as did a small group of folk I consider friends...some people I know might be a tad insulted by the Y'all stuff, because it seems to be making fun of someone elses beliefs...
You are absolutely correct it does sound just like TWI doctorine and practical error. What can or can not be posted and where.
This whole thread is full of referenes to Speaking in Tongues and other biblical references. In fact there are many references all over many of these threads and forums. If you have the guts to put the Chapter and Verse with it ..................... Let it stay and post where you see fit.
No Bullying the Muscle Man.
I personally get blesed when someone actually posts the word. In whatever forum it is in.
I stand by you 100%.
God is great !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whether some want to hear it or not.
Digi
Bramble,
I am glad you had a great time in your celebration. Sounds like an all nighter would be fun.
Just quoting Bible verses is what made some people sick of the Bible - it doesn't really help some people, especially non-Chrisitans... It also is empty words to others when a personal word and concern are what helps. Those scriptures just sound like the TWIts when they would say, "just believe God" or "you gotta believe bigger" - it's so generic and doesn't really help. That's great if that's what comforts you and helps you, but realize that not everyone is going to appreciate the fact that there's a Bible verse for everything.
I think you missed what I said. I said that "not everyone is going to appreciate" your Bible verses. :) Go ahead and post them because that's what seems to comfort you and it also may comfort others - in fact, I know a few people on here who probably WILL appreciate them. I've not limited or attempted to limit anything you say. I don't do that with anyone. I may disagree with someone or think for me personally that their posts hold no value, but I was not telling you what to post or what not to post and I'm sorry if you read it that way.
Um, just so ya know, Yule/Winter Solstice is an actual holiday celebrated by some non Christains, with spiritual/religious meaning to them. My family celebrated Yule from sundown last night to sundown today, as did a small group of folk I consider friends...some people I know might be a tad insulted by the Y'all stuff, because it seems to be making fun of someone elses beliefs...
Well Bramble,
we have got off to not a good start, now lets get this right.
i dont make fun of people, beliefs. if they believe something diffirent to me that's great.
but that doesnt mean i have to TIP TOE around everyone because i might offend them.
I think you missed what I said. I said that "not everyone is going to appreciate" your Bible verses. Go ahead and post them because that's what seems to comfort you and it also may comfort others - in fact, I know a few people on here who probably WILL appreciate them. I've not limited or attempted to limit anything you say. I don't do that with anyone. I may disagree with someone or think for me personally that their posts hold no value, but I was not telling you what to post or what not to post and I'm sorry if you read it that way.
I truly understand that many people were hurt, myself included, but we must move on, the adversary
would love us to dwell on the negatives.
Indeed. Well said!
It's been my experience though, that for every negative we dwell on,
Here at Greasespot, we replace it with 3 positives!
:biglaugh:
Seriously -- while discussing the past injustices (and yes -- sometimes that falls into the category of dwelling on negatives), many other positive subjects are brought up and discussed, argued about, learned from, dismissed by some, accepted by others, etc.
The venting about twi (imo) is a cathartic process that'll go on until the last of us are
finally pushing up daisies.
Kinda like old men sitting on *Liar's Bench* in the town square,
"Hey Joe -- remember that time we wuz a'fishin, and I caught the really big one,
and you said we should mark the spot with an *X*??
And then you wanted to put a big X in the boat??"
"Yep I remember that, BillyBob. You done told me that I was a fool.
Made sense when you said we may not get the same boat next fishing trip."
;)
Taking about the injustices that happened years ago to some of us have transcended to this level of talk. Reminiscing, (mildly) complaining, but mostly reminiscing.
Reminiscing about the *Good Old Days/Not So Good Days*. Like I said, it is cathartic.
However --- there are some here who have just recently gotten free from twi,
And if it will help them see what the org is really like, I'll keep on yappin'
However --- there are some here who have just recently gotten free from twi,
And if it will help them see what the org is really like, I'll keep on yappin'
(till I'm pushing up daisies, that is!)
DM I am free over 8 years almost 9 now. I still find cobwebs in the back of my brain that I need to let loose in the forums and I still find people like you who make them into daisies.
I hope that some things that I post help people ......... I know in general I propbably have taken more assistance but I find Gods people very giving .......... therefore I find myself becoming more and more foregiving as time grows on .........
This topic is about the way................................................
so that tells me its also to do with GOD, because thats what i was taught at the way, whether it was
right or wrong i sat in classes with a BIBLE in my lap...... GOD'S WORD not mine or someone elses.
So i guess the Word of God holds no value to the people that have replied here to me.
Well thats great also cause we all have free will choice, but lets not struggle over craiggers,
power, envy, or strife.
Its good to know that someone else was very badly hurt, but is recovering and hasnt
stayed in a rut for years.. it gives people HOPE I would not even compare my situation with someone
elses as we all had issues and had to work it out for ourselves, i was just bringing some Hope to people
that were hurting and that with time it will get better............
Yes i also know people are leaving twi daily but remember they were there for a reason just like me
and many more like me they wanted to know GOD. They need to know that God is still with them,
That he heals the broken hearted, NO WHERE DID I SAY "JUST BELIEVE GOD" it takes time for
people to heal, but the world wont heal you.................................. if people dont take a stand for
GOD then all is lost. Why should we let the adversary beat us down day after day, I believed this
was the right place to talk about GOD, i have posted a few times in other forums without a mention of
GOD or scripture and yes i have a heart to, for God and People.
This was where people were talking about twi, so i thought i would share my honest heart, not from a legalistic point of view, but with intentions of blessing people, but i guess GOD is a no go subject here.
So maybe someone would like to point me in the direction of a forum where my posts about God will
be a blessing, For he has done so much in my life in twi and out of it, that iam sure some would be blessed
to hear it.
again sorry for offending anyone, that was not my true heart or intentions, and those of you that do
FWIW, let me add my two cents in on this for the benefit of Mary Poppins and Powerfilled...
I appreciate your attitudes, first of all. People DO need to, at some point, move on with their lives and, for once and for all, put it in their pasts. I truly believe that forgiveness is a part of that. I truly believe that the perception of God's mercy to them is critical in allowing them to be healed sufficiently to finally forgive from their hearts.
HAVING SAID THAT
I see Greasespot as having a unique ministry. And yes, I meant ministry. A part of the healing process is going through the process of catharsis. Going through a grieving process for the part of their lives and the part of their families and friends and childrens' lives that were lost as the result of abuse at the hands of TWI and many who were in its leadership. Not all. But many.
As you will see discussed on many, many other threads, the TWI cultus had its own complete culture: its own language, its own mores, norms of conduct, dogma, and so on. The only people who were completely versed in this culture were those who lived in it, as well. Although, at its peak, TWI was fairly big for a cult, out of a whole wide world, there aren't that many people who were in TWI. It would be rather difficult, in most places, to find a F2F support group of ex-Wayfers with whom you could vent. Venting to a person who had never been in TWI and was not immersed in the TWI culture would simply not be possible. If you talked about going duo on LEAD, you'd have to explain it...not just the meaning of the terms, but all the little innuendo that was associated with the terms. To most people, SIT means to place derriere on chair, not speak in tongues. And so on and so forth. So, in order to get that cathartic effect that is truly necessary as a part of their healing, they need to speak to somebody who actually understands what the heck they're talking about.
Without that, a person can wander around in life thinking that he/she is the only one who feels hurt with nobody who could possibly understand what he/she has gone through for the past 5, 10, 20, 30 years of his/her life. And how could he/she have been so stupid as to have wasted that time and how could he/she have been so blind as to not see the signs and not have the wisdom to realize what was going on.
Greasespot, to my understanding, is just about the only place where ex-TWI people can get together to vent. And it is UNIQUELY valuable for that purpose.
There have been over a thousand people (maybe up to a couple of thousand) who have registered on this site. There have been several hundred who have, over a period of years, who have been regular posters on this site. Many have come, gotten the healing they sought, found the answers they sought, and then moved on. I can think of lots and lots of folks who have just moved on -- (Steve! and Cindy!, anybody). God bless them one and all! There are some who are provocoteurs who like criticizing anybody who dares say anything was amiss...there are people who have beliefs literally all over the spectrum. To assume that anybody here has a given belief is a very foolish mistake. But everybody is here for a reason. And they all have a reason to stick around. Or they move on.
Mary Poppins/Powerfilled, I think that your philosophy about forgiveness is quite correct. Let me state that again. But you don't tell a woman who was raped by a man who allowed himself to be reputed as the modern-day version of the apostle Paul, or His Divinely Appointed Successor, that she needs to forgive her rapist. You don't tell a woman whose husband was so brainwashed that, when told by his leadership that he needed to divorce his wife in order to stay in that ministry, he took the leadership's advice, that she needs to forgive that leadership. You don't tell a woman who was told that it was God's will that she abort her child (and she did so and has been plagued with guilt ever since) to forgive the man of God who told her to kill her baby. And there are as many other stories as there are GS posters, but those three stories always stick out in my mind. Yes, objectively, for them to be healed completely, they need to do so. However, God's Divine Mercy needs to heal their hearts so that they will do so naturally. They may never be healed to the point of being able to finally let it completely go. That's not for me or for you to determine. It's your job to minister that Divine Mercy into their hearts so that they will, if God wills, be healed at some point in time. That, my friends, is the ministry of reconcilliation. Not just quoting a Bible verse to them that they know already, anyway.
My point is that, while you should feel free to believe as you'd like and post whatever you'd like, the (correct) consensus around here is that folks need to have the chance to vent...and that venting serves a valuable purpose.
Oh, yeah, back to the "ministry" comment I made: how do you think people FIND GSC? Most Google the place up and, when they read the stories of posters on here, they realize that they are not the only ones...and may realize that they may not have been the worst hurt. That's the other ministerial function. Only God knows how many people have been helped by this forum and by the main site. Many thousands could have gotten some form of deliverance who have never registered. There are guests on each thread all the time...
I consider friends...some people I know might be a tad insulted by the Y'all stuff, because it seems to be making fun of someone elses beliefs...
Ahhh -- Bramble. I --- Was --- Just --- *Funnin* ---
Am totally aware that solstices are a big deal to many folks (I've pulled out the fiddle and played for more May-Poles than I can remember), so I am NOT insensitive to the beliefs of others who may happen to disagree with me about things of this nature.
Sorry if I offended you. I actually was debating wih myself as to whether to put
*Y'all* or *You-uns* there, since -----
your *Yule* somehow reminded me of both! :)
Peace, and Merry HannaRamaKwanzMasYule to you too.
Powerfilled, not one of my posts was directed at you, so I don't see how we could have gotten off on the wrong foot!
You may quote all the scripture you wish. There are many Christians on this site who will enjoy it.
I have not asked you to tip toe around me and I was not looking for a Christian/non Christain spar. If you, in the future, directed some scripture toward me, Bramble, for some reason, I would probably just tell you I am not a Bible believer.
My first post was directed at what I perceived to be a reproof post about 'just quit talking about the negatives', the post by Mary Poppins. I think I stated pretty clearly what I thought--I do not agree that we should hush up about the negatives of TWI.
And as far as people 'dwelling ' on the negatives, how would anyone knowe that from reading a message board? Perhaps their 'dwelling' is 20 minutes a day when they are on GSC. We only see a small portion of people's lives here. Heck one of these posters has like 7 kids, GSC is probably the only times she sits down!
My second post was in light of the Y'alls--which you were not a part of-- which I know was the posters being humorous. However, I did feel I should speak up because Yule/winter solstice is a spiritually meaningful and serious religious holiday to some people, like Christmas or Pentacost is to some Christains. SOME people might be offended, I really wasn't but thought I'd mention it. Some Christians, for instance, are offended by xmass. It was off topic, sorry.
Mary Poppins/Powerfilled, I think that your philosophy about forgiveness is quite correct. Let me state that again. But you don't tell a woman who was raped by a man who allowed himself to be reputed as the modern-day version of the apostle Paul, or His Divinely Appointed Successor, that she needs to forgive her rapist. You don't tell a woman whose husband was so brainwashed that, when told by his leadership that he needed to divorce his wife in order to stay in that ministry, he took the leadership's advice, that she needs to forgive that leadership. You don't tell a woman who was told that it was God's will that she abort her child (and she did so and has been plagued with guilt ever since) to forgive the man of God who told her to kill her baby.
I don't see where MaryPoppins and Powerfilled gave any direct counseling to these matters. I don't think you can blame these incidents on MaryPoppins or Powerfilled, they had nothing to do with them.
There are alot of things posted here that get my goat but many times the posters don't know my personal situation on that particular subject so how can I be right in getting angry with them.
I was once molested or coerced whatever you want to call it by a man in TWI a Corps Grad right after I took PFAL ......... He was my TWIG COORD. I don't blame anyone else for it, I don't blame God for it and I don't blame the word for it. Was and am I still ANGRY about it. YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT. ........... But its not the fault of anyone who posts here. I thank God for my Hubby, we were engaged at the time and he handled the situation and helped me through it. BUT, it still ANGERS me when I think about it.
I thank MarryPoppins and PowerFilled for these words because even though they have known me for years, I have not told them of this until recently and they have learned more in this thread about it than what I have ever told them. There words did help me if they helped no one else.
I don't see where MaryPoppins and Powerfilled gave any direct counseling to these matters. I don't think you can blame these incidents on MaryPoppins or Powerfilled, they had nothing to do with them.
With due respect, I wasn't referring to your situation in any way shape or form. I do not know your situation and so would not presume to refer to it. I was also not attacking either of those two people. Had I done so, there would be no question about it.
I sincerely regret any offense I may have personally caused you by providing some constructive, fraternal advice to some apparently very nice people who appear to want to provide some comfort.
You know, WhiteDove........I hear what you are saying. Really I do.
Don't want to derail the current conversation but I just wanted to say Skyrider I'm glad we are on the same page I agree with what you posted about the Corps program in your last post. My only concern was keeping the factual record straight about what was or was not in print. It seems we all agree that it was in print but that the print did not always line up with the real life events. I can agree with that thinking also......
so that tells me its also to do with GOD, because thats what i was taught at the way, whether it was
right or wrong i sat in classes with a BIBLE in my lap...... GOD'S WORD not mine or someone elses.
So i guess the Word of God holds no value to the people that have replied here to me.
Mary -- With all due respect, your first sentence negated the second.
I'm not flaming you or anything like that.
From the years 1975-1987 I also sat in MANY meetings with a bible on my lap as well.
All run by twi.
Foundational class
Intermediate class
Advanced class
Heart-beat festivals
Roa's
Twigs
Branch meetings
Limb meetings
Live class 1977
All the other seminars as well.
Even sat in the shadow of the Black Hills of South Dakota on LEAD, bible in lap.
Many here still revere God, His Word, and His Son Jesus Christ.
Some do not, but for those of us that do ---
We revere Him, and not the way.
And simply because we (some of us) find fault with a man-made ministry, does not negate the truth of God or His Word, therefore He (and Jesus, and the Word) are still of value to us in our lives.
DM I am free over 8 years almost 9 now. I still find cobwebs in the back of my brain that I need to let loose in the forums and I still find people like you who make them into daisies.
Digi -- What a different interpretation of
*Pushing up Daisies!!!*
(but-I-kinda-like-it!!!!!!!)
Fyi -- *pushing up daisies* has always referred to --
6 feet under
kicked the bucket
sod in your face
dead and buried.
With your advanced skills in putting *new spin* to old sayings,
Ya might thinks about writing a best-seller,
A *new improved version of the scripture*, or ----
I grant you that sometimes it is hard here to distinguish between genuine *dwelling on negatives* with honest reminiscing with no evil intent. Many here (as Mark put it so well), have come and gone, finding what they needed for themselves, and moving on (just as you suggested).
Hey -- I have
A VERY SERIOUS QUESTION FOR YOU
How did Powerfilled get that pic of me (in my younger days) to use as his avatar?????
I had no idea thats what pushing up daisies meant.
I took it as growing something beautiful out of nothing but dirt.
I like my version better to be honest with you.
Yeah ......... we might need a new version ......... you keep giving me analogies and the ones I don't already know I am sure I can try to put a positive spin on them.
Wow, I forget that many TWI doctrine people think that talking negatives about anything, not just the Way, is some type of evil and will lead to Bad things in their life. Negative words lead to negative believing, negative happenings etc. Okay, now I remember.
Culture shock.
*Mary Poppins, sorry I misunderstood your first post. It looked like blanket reproof to me, not comfort.
I my experience, keeping silent about evil was a greater evil and lead to much hurt.Once we started acknowledging it (our life in TWI), facing it and deciding it was wrong and cruel, life got much better. My spouse and I not speaking any negatives about TWI to each other for years certainly kept us in alot longer than we should have stayed.
People coming out of TWI in the nineties were so schooled to be silent that I think they need to be encouraged to find their voice, even if what they have to say is ugly and negative. I think eventually people level out.
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Belle
I would recommend reading WordWolf's post at the top of this About the Way Forum. ;)
The reason some people are here is to talk about TWI, the evil and bondage and to help others who need it. That means talking about the bad stuff. :) If that's not what someone else wants to talk about they are more than welcome to do so, but to tell others where they should be in their recovery and to set limits on what they talk about is wrong, in my opinion. We got through that here every once in a while.
There are people leaving TWI every day and there are people finding GSpot every day - some of those people have been out for a long time and are shocked and relieved to find GSpot and the information, commonality and answers to things they've been dealing with for years and sometimes decades.
Not everyone on here is a Christian and GSpot is NOT a Chrisitan forum. (Allan will gladly point who believes what, but be aware that he is frequently MORE negative than what you've read here that got you upset.) Just quoting Bible verses is what made some people sick of the Bible - it doesn't really help some people, especially non-Chrisitans... It also is empty words to others when a personal word and concern are what helps. Those scriptures just sound like the TWIts when they would say, "just believe God" or "you gotta believe bigger" - it's so generic and doesn't really help. That's great if that's what comforts you and helps you, but realize that not everyone is going to appreciate the fact that there's a Bible verse for everything.
We do have "positive" threads on here. I'll try to bring a few up for you to peruse.
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Digitalis
Wow Powerfilled,
What big muscles you have ..................... what a man !!!! LOL
I am spanking myself right now for being human LOL
But ................ the word you gave blessed me tremendously.
I feel people need to know about the wiles of TWI, yet there is a way to let it be known without malice in our hearts once we get to that point.
A way to let things be known in order to help others so that they actually hear us instead of read of over us.
I remember being angry and still can be angry myself ................
Somethings I have gotten over ............... Somethings will fight hard on.........
But its Love in my heart that helps me make those decisions ............. is my heart always correct? only God knows
Digi
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dmiller
Powerfilled -- great signature line!! B) B) B)
Merry Y'all too! :D
David
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powerfilled
Well it sounds like you are going to limit me in what i can say and cant say.
it is sad really because that to me also sounds like TWI ( or a country co-ordinator telling me what to do)
im not allow to say this or im not allow to say that. i have to be correct
because some people believe and some dont.
every one should be able share what is on there heart.
and if i want to post the scripture where i think it is right to post scripture I will.
the scriptures are God's word not TWI word.
you never know what i could write could be what someone else really needs to see to help them
even if it didnt help the person it was intented for.
i stand by everything i said in the post and if people dont like because i tell the truth
that is fine with me. My heart is to help people just like your heart is.
so God Bless
That is all i have to say about that.
:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:
Hey DMILLER
thanks for the compliment
merry yule to you too.
bless ya
powerfilled
:D
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Bramble
Um, just so ya know, Yule/Winter Solstice is an actual holiday celebrated by some non Christains, with spiritual/religious meaning to them. My family celebrated Yule from sundown last night to sundown today, as did a small group of folk I consider friends...some people I know might be a tad insulted by the Y'all stuff, because it seems to be making fun of someone elses beliefs...
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Digitalis
Powerfilled,
You are absolutely correct it does sound just like TWI doctorine and practical error. What can or can not be posted and where.
This whole thread is full of referenes to Speaking in Tongues and other biblical references. In fact there are many references all over many of these threads and forums. If you have the guts to put the Chapter and Verse with it ..................... Let it stay and post where you see fit.
No Bullying the Muscle Man.
I personally get blesed when someone actually posts the word. In whatever forum it is in.
I stand by you 100%.
God is great !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whether some want to hear it or not.
Digi
Bramble,
I am glad you had a great time in your celebration. Sounds like an all nighter would be fun.
Digi
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Belle
I think you missed what I said. I said that "not everyone is going to appreciate" your Bible verses. :) Go ahead and post them because that's what seems to comfort you and it also may comfort others - in fact, I know a few people on here who probably WILL appreciate them. I've not limited or attempted to limit anything you say. I don't do that with anyone. I may disagree with someone or think for me personally that their posts hold no value, but I was not telling you what to post or what not to post and I'm sorry if you read it that way.
I also stand 100% behind MY post. :D
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powerfilled
QUOTE from Bramble
Um, just so ya know, Yule/Winter Solstice is an actual holiday celebrated by some non Christains, with spiritual/religious meaning to them. My family celebrated Yule from sundown last night to sundown today, as did a small group of folk I consider friends...some people I know might be a tad insulted by the Y'all stuff, because it seems to be making fun of someone elses beliefs...
Well Bramble,
we have got off to not a good start, now lets get this right.
i dont make fun of people, beliefs. if they believe something diffirent to me that's great.
but that doesnt mean i have to TIP TOE around everyone because i might offend them.
and i will not tip toe around people.
with the greatest repects
Powerfilled
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powerfilled
QUOTE FROM BELLE
I think you missed what I said. I said that "not everyone is going to appreciate" your Bible verses. Go ahead and post them because that's what seems to comfort you and it also may comfort others - in fact, I know a few people on here who probably WILL appreciate them. I've not limited or attempted to limit anything you say. I don't do that with anyone. I may disagree with someone or think for me personally that their posts hold no value, but I was not telling you what to post or what not to post and I'm sorry if you read it that way.
I also stand 100% behind MY post.
________________________________________________________________________________
_____
Thanks for the premission to "Go ahead and post.
yes the scriptures God's word brings me great comfort and comfort to those who believe them.
i beleive my post has Value because it has God word quote in the post.
so i know where your heart is concerning the word, as it is revealed in post quoted above.
anyways thank you belle for your honesty.
it is great that we can share, even when we disagree
powerfilled :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:
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dmiller
Indeed. Well said!
It's been my experience though, that for every negative we dwell on,
Here at Greasespot, we replace it with 3 positives!
Seriously -- while discussing the past injustices (and yes -- sometimes that falls into the category of dwelling on negatives), many other positive subjects are brought up and discussed, argued about, learned from, dismissed by some, accepted by others, etc.
The venting about twi (imo) is a cathartic process that'll go on until the last of us are
finally pushing up daisies.
Kinda like old men sitting on *Liar's Bench* in the town square,
"Hey Joe -- remember that time we wuz a'fishin, and I caught the really big one,
and you said we should mark the spot with an *X*??
And then you wanted to put a big X in the boat??"
"Yep I remember that, BillyBob. You done told me that I was a fool.
Made sense when you said we may not get the same boat next fishing trip."
;)
Taking about the injustices that happened years ago to some of us have transcended to this level of talk. Reminiscing, (mildly) complaining, but mostly reminiscing.
Reminiscing about the *Good Old Days/Not So Good Days*. Like I said, it is cathartic.
However --- there are some here who have just recently gotten free from twi,
And if it will help them see what the org is really like, I'll keep on yappin'
(till I'm pushing up daisies, that is!)
David
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Digitalis
DM said
However --- there are some here who have just recently gotten free from twi,
And if it will help them see what the org is really like, I'll keep on yappin'
(till I'm pushing up daisies, that is!)
DM I am free over 8 years almost 9 now. I still find cobwebs in the back of my brain that I need to let loose in the forums and I still find people like you who make them into daisies.
I hope that some things that I post help people ......... I know in general I propbably have taken more assistance but I find Gods people very giving .......... therefore I find myself becoming more and more foregiving as time grows on .........
Working on pushing up those daisies,
Thanks DM
Digi
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marypoppins
I really cant believe what i am reading
This topic is about the way................................................
so that tells me its also to do with GOD, because thats what i was taught at the way, whether it was
right or wrong i sat in classes with a BIBLE in my lap...... GOD'S WORD not mine or someone elses.
So i guess the Word of God holds no value to the people that have replied here to me.
Well thats great also cause we all have free will choice, but lets not struggle over craiggers,
power, envy, or strife.
Its good to know that someone else was very badly hurt, but is recovering and hasnt
stayed in a rut for years.. it gives people HOPE I would not even compare my situation with someone
elses as we all had issues and had to work it out for ourselves, i was just bringing some Hope to people
that were hurting and that with time it will get better............
Yes i also know people are leaving twi daily but remember they were there for a reason just like me
and many more like me they wanted to know GOD. They need to know that God is still with them,
That he heals the broken hearted, NO WHERE DID I SAY "JUST BELIEVE GOD" it takes time for
people to heal, but the world wont heal you.................................. if people dont take a stand for
GOD then all is lost. Why should we let the adversary beat us down day after day, I believed this
was the right place to talk about GOD, i have posted a few times in other forums without a mention of
GOD or scripture and yes i have a heart to, for God and People.
This was where people were talking about twi, so i thought i would share my honest heart, not from a legalistic point of view, but with intentions of blessing people, but i guess GOD is a no go subject here.
So maybe someone would like to point me in the direction of a forum where my posts about God will
be a blessing, For he has done so much in my life in twi and out of it, that iam sure some would be blessed
to hear it.
again sorry for offending anyone, that was not my true heart or intentions, and those of you that do
know me, know that i wouldnt do that.
marypoppins
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markomalley
FWIW, let me add my two cents in on this for the benefit of Mary Poppins and Powerfilled...
I appreciate your attitudes, first of all. People DO need to, at some point, move on with their lives and, for once and for all, put it in their pasts. I truly believe that forgiveness is a part of that. I truly believe that the perception of God's mercy to them is critical in allowing them to be healed sufficiently to finally forgive from their hearts.
HAVING SAID THAT
I see Greasespot as having a unique ministry. And yes, I meant ministry. A part of the healing process is going through the process of catharsis. Going through a grieving process for the part of their lives and the part of their families and friends and childrens' lives that were lost as the result of abuse at the hands of TWI and many who were in its leadership. Not all. But many.
As you will see discussed on many, many other threads, the TWI cultus had its own complete culture: its own language, its own mores, norms of conduct, dogma, and so on. The only people who were completely versed in this culture were those who lived in it, as well. Although, at its peak, TWI was fairly big for a cult, out of a whole wide world, there aren't that many people who were in TWI. It would be rather difficult, in most places, to find a F2F support group of ex-Wayfers with whom you could vent. Venting to a person who had never been in TWI and was not immersed in the TWI culture would simply not be possible. If you talked about going duo on LEAD, you'd have to explain it...not just the meaning of the terms, but all the little innuendo that was associated with the terms. To most people, SIT means to place derriere on chair, not speak in tongues. And so on and so forth. So, in order to get that cathartic effect that is truly necessary as a part of their healing, they need to speak to somebody who actually understands what the heck they're talking about.
Without that, a person can wander around in life thinking that he/she is the only one who feels hurt with nobody who could possibly understand what he/she has gone through for the past 5, 10, 20, 30 years of his/her life. And how could he/she have been so stupid as to have wasted that time and how could he/she have been so blind as to not see the signs and not have the wisdom to realize what was going on.
Greasespot, to my understanding, is just about the only place where ex-TWI people can get together to vent. And it is UNIQUELY valuable for that purpose.
There have been over a thousand people (maybe up to a couple of thousand) who have registered on this site. There have been several hundred who have, over a period of years, who have been regular posters on this site. Many have come, gotten the healing they sought, found the answers they sought, and then moved on. I can think of lots and lots of folks who have just moved on -- (Steve! and Cindy!, anybody). God bless them one and all! There are some who are provocoteurs who like criticizing anybody who dares say anything was amiss...there are people who have beliefs literally all over the spectrum. To assume that anybody here has a given belief is a very foolish mistake. But everybody is here for a reason. And they all have a reason to stick around. Or they move on.
Mary Poppins/Powerfilled, I think that your philosophy about forgiveness is quite correct. Let me state that again. But you don't tell a woman who was raped by a man who allowed himself to be reputed as the modern-day version of the apostle Paul, or His Divinely Appointed Successor, that she needs to forgive her rapist. You don't tell a woman whose husband was so brainwashed that, when told by his leadership that he needed to divorce his wife in order to stay in that ministry, he took the leadership's advice, that she needs to forgive that leadership. You don't tell a woman who was told that it was God's will that she abort her child (and she did so and has been plagued with guilt ever since) to forgive the man of God who told her to kill her baby. And there are as many other stories as there are GS posters, but those three stories always stick out in my mind. Yes, objectively, for them to be healed completely, they need to do so. However, God's Divine Mercy needs to heal their hearts so that they will do so naturally. They may never be healed to the point of being able to finally let it completely go. That's not for me or for you to determine. It's your job to minister that Divine Mercy into their hearts so that they will, if God wills, be healed at some point in time. That, my friends, is the ministry of reconcilliation. Not just quoting a Bible verse to them that they know already, anyway.
My point is that, while you should feel free to believe as you'd like and post whatever you'd like, the (correct) consensus around here is that folks need to have the chance to vent...and that venting serves a valuable purpose.
Oh, yeah, back to the "ministry" comment I made: how do you think people FIND GSC? Most Google the place up and, when they read the stories of posters on here, they realize that they are not the only ones...and may realize that they may not have been the worst hurt. That's the other ministerial function. Only God knows how many people have been helped by this forum and by the main site. Many thousands could have gotten some form of deliverance who have never registered. There are guests on each thread all the time...
Anyway, carry on.
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dmiller
Ahhh -- Bramble. I --- Was --- Just --- *Funnin* ---
Am totally aware that solstices are a big deal to many folks (I've pulled out the fiddle and played for more May-Poles than I can remember), so I am NOT insensitive to the beliefs of others who may happen to disagree with me about things of this nature.
Sorry if I offended you. I actually was debating wih myself as to whether to put
*Y'all* or *You-uns* there, since -----
your *Yule* somehow reminded me of both! :)
Peace, and Merry HannaRamaKwanzMasYule to you too.
(I can be *all-inclusive* at times. ;)
David
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Bramble
Powerfilled, not one of my posts was directed at you, so I don't see how we could have gotten off on the wrong foot!
You may quote all the scripture you wish. There are many Christians on this site who will enjoy it.
I have not asked you to tip toe around me and I was not looking for a Christian/non Christain spar. If you, in the future, directed some scripture toward me, Bramble, for some reason, I would probably just tell you I am not a Bible believer.
My first post was directed at what I perceived to be a reproof post about 'just quit talking about the negatives', the post by Mary Poppins. I think I stated pretty clearly what I thought--I do not agree that we should hush up about the negatives of TWI.
And as far as people 'dwelling ' on the negatives, how would anyone knowe that from reading a message board? Perhaps their 'dwelling' is 20 minutes a day when they are on GSC. We only see a small portion of people's lives here. Heck one of these posters has like 7 kids, GSC is probably the only times she sits down!
My second post was in light of the Y'alls--which you were not a part of-- which I know was the posters being humorous. However, I did feel I should speak up because Yule/winter solstice is a spiritually meaningful and serious religious holiday to some people, like Christmas or Pentacost is to some Christains. SOME people might be offended, I really wasn't but thought I'd mention it. Some Christians, for instance, are offended by xmass. It was off topic, sorry.
Bramble(as in --prickly)
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Digitalis
Mark Said
Mary Poppins/Powerfilled, I think that your philosophy about forgiveness is quite correct. Let me state that again. But you don't tell a woman who was raped by a man who allowed himself to be reputed as the modern-day version of the apostle Paul, or His Divinely Appointed Successor, that she needs to forgive her rapist. You don't tell a woman whose husband was so brainwashed that, when told by his leadership that he needed to divorce his wife in order to stay in that ministry, he took the leadership's advice, that she needs to forgive that leadership. You don't tell a woman who was told that it was God's will that she abort her child (and she did so and has been plagued with guilt ever since) to forgive the man of God who told her to kill her baby.
I don't see where MaryPoppins and Powerfilled gave any direct counseling to these matters. I don't think you can blame these incidents on MaryPoppins or Powerfilled, they had nothing to do with them.
There are alot of things posted here that get my goat but many times the posters don't know my personal situation on that particular subject so how can I be right in getting angry with them.
I was once molested or coerced whatever you want to call it by a man in TWI a Corps Grad right after I took PFAL ......... He was my TWIG COORD. I don't blame anyone else for it, I don't blame God for it and I don't blame the word for it. Was and am I still ANGRY about it. YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT. ........... But its not the fault of anyone who posts here. I thank God for my Hubby, we were engaged at the time and he handled the situation and helped me through it. BUT, it still ANGERS me when I think about it.
I thank MarryPoppins and PowerFilled for these words because even though they have known me for years, I have not told them of this until recently and they have learned more in this thread about it than what I have ever told them. There words did help me if they helped no one else.
Digi
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markomalley
With due respect, I wasn't referring to your situation in any way shape or form. I do not know your situation and so would not presume to refer to it. I was also not attacking either of those two people. Had I done so, there would be no question about it.
I sincerely regret any offense I may have personally caused you by providing some constructive, fraternal advice to some apparently very nice people who appear to want to provide some comfort.
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WhiteDove
Don't want to derail the current conversation but I just wanted to say Skyrider I'm glad we are on the same page I agree with what you posted about the Corps program in your last post. My only concern was keeping the factual record straight about what was or was not in print. It seems we all agree that it was in print but that the print did not always line up with the real life events. I can agree with that thinking also......
Now if we can ust find that darn missing quote
:)
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dmiller
Mary -- With all due respect, your first sentence negated the second.
I'm not flaming you or anything like that.
From the years 1975-1987 I also sat in MANY meetings with a bible on my lap as well.
All run by twi.
Foundational class
Intermediate class
Advanced class
Heart-beat festivals
Roa's
Twigs
Branch meetings
Limb meetings
Live class 1977
All the other seminars as well.
Even sat in the shadow of the Black Hills of South Dakota on LEAD, bible in lap.
Many here still revere God, His Word, and His Son Jesus Christ.
Some do not, but for those of us that do ---
We revere Him, and not the way.
And simply because we (some of us) find fault with a man-made ministry, does not negate the truth of God or His Word, therefore He (and Jesus, and the Word) are still of value to us in our lives.
David
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marypoppins
David that blesses me so much
I didnt have a easy time, but i have never shunned God, my true heart was not to hurt anyone
not to reprove anyone, just to give a little comfort, yes some move on and forgive but we will
never forget,
The post was not directed to you but to those that Gods Word holds no value, We have free will choice
and i wouldnt push the Word of God on people that didnt want it,
i just thought it was a appropriate place to post
God Bless your heart
mary
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dmiller
Digi -- What a different interpretation of
*Pushing up Daisies!!!*
(but-I-kinda-like-it!!!!!!!)
Fyi -- *pushing up daisies* has always referred to --
6 feet under
kicked the bucket
sod in your face
dead and buried.
With your advanced skills in putting *new spin* to old sayings,
Ya might thinks about writing a best-seller,
A *new improved version of the scripture*, or ----
(shudderrrrrr)
Even a new cult!!!
(how long before I can't edit this???)
:P
David
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dmiller
Thanks, Mary. :)
I grant you that sometimes it is hard here to distinguish between genuine *dwelling on negatives* with honest reminiscing with no evil intent. Many here (as Mark put it so well), have come and gone, finding what they needed for themselves, and moving on (just as you suggested).
Hey -- I have
A VERY SERIOUS QUESTION FOR YOU
How did Powerfilled get that pic of me (in my younger days) to use as his avatar?????
:P :P :P
David
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Digitalis
DMiller you are a sweetie,
I had no idea thats what pushing up daisies meant.
I took it as growing something beautiful out of nothing but dirt.
I like my version better to be honest with you.
Yeah ......... we might need a new version ......... you keep giving me analogies and the ones I don't already know I am sure I can try to put a positive spin on them.
Love ya,
Digi
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Bramble
*Dmiller--I knew you were funnin.'
Wow, I forget that many TWI doctrine people think that talking negatives about anything, not just the Way, is some type of evil and will lead to Bad things in their life. Negative words lead to negative believing, negative happenings etc. Okay, now I remember.
Culture shock.
*Mary Poppins, sorry I misunderstood your first post. It looked like blanket reproof to me, not comfort.
I my experience, keeping silent about evil was a greater evil and lead to much hurt.Once we started acknowledging it (our life in TWI), facing it and deciding it was wrong and cruel, life got much better. My spouse and I not speaking any negatives about TWI to each other for years certainly kept us in alot longer than we should have stayed.
People coming out of TWI in the nineties were so schooled to be silent that I think they need to be encouraged to find their voice, even if what they have to say is ugly and negative. I think eventually people level out.
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