Hmmmmmm........."not written down".........not anywhere?
When I signed up for "twig coordinator training" via the corps program.......it was NOT WRITTEN DOWN ANYWHERE that this was to be a lifetime of twi service?? NOT ONE PIECE OF LITERATURE.....NOT ONE OF THE LCM PROMOTIONS MADE THIS PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE. Only after several months was this mentioned in a closed-corps, full-bore meeting.........a seductive measure, for sure.
Inference AND implications were always A BIG PART of twi's manipulation.
Isn't it obvious???
WhiteDove showed a brochure with a title about
"A Lifetime of Christian Service."
Seems someone needs to explain this again,
and I'm in the mood.
================
"ONCE a Marine, ALWAYS a Marine."
"Semper fidelis" ("Always Faithful.")
Does that mean that a Marine spends the rest of
his life being assigned battlefields by the US
government?
Of course NOT.
He follows orders for his TOUR OF DUTY
(or tourS of duty.)
Then he is discharged and returns to
civilian life.
Is he still a Marine?
Yes.
But he's "retired" from "active duty".
He is a VETERAN.
He takes the training and experiences
he learned in the Marines, and
applies some of it to daily life, and
he generally upholds their principles
for much or all of his life.
That's what "ONCE a Marine, ALWAYS a Marine" means.
=====
Now,
people entering the Way Corps were entering for
a period of training,
after which they would choose to accept assignents
Yeah, I remember that corpes was presented as THE best way to be THE best tc, and THE best way to be the best servant for God.
I had no idea at the time that it was considered a vow and a commitment to God that could not be terminated under any condition without deadly consequences :(
We were told that IF we loved God...we would be in the corpes....no question..at the promo martindale stated that was why he only hung out with corpes because he only wanted people who loved God aroundd him......I knew that I didn`t have any *natural leadership ability* as per the requirements...but I DID earnestly want to know how to best love/serve God.......it was recomended that I enter in spite of my shortcomings anyway and that God would just have to develop whatever was necessary within me....that if I put my heart and bu tt on the line...God would HAVE to honor that....I wanted to be my best for God...so against my better judgement, I enrolled.
It was pretty bad....I couldn`t enter residence at the end of my app year because some of the classes that were required had not been available in my state (or aany OTHER state that I had ever lived in for that matter) ....course that meant my believing was faulty and I personally had failed already.....I was treated to my first face melting because of my shortcomings....obviously if I had been spiritually minded I wouldn`t have missed the revelation on how to get the requirements met......I had failed....I was so ashamed...yet I didn`t know where or how or when I had blown it.....
It was terribly frustrating being expected to just sign on the line and that God would cover the financial, spiritual etc...it was your fault....if he didn`t ...you were a spiritual loser.
Now mind you, I would have had the tution no problem, but a month after signing up....where as I had been saving every penny of every paycheck......it was deemed best/required by leadership that i move out of my Mom`s home (negative unbelieveing vibes you know) and rent an apartment with another believer....so at the end of the year of just scraping by in an expensive apt I didn`t have my tuition entirely together either.
I was considered SUCH a loser.... I was so ashamed...I didn`t know why my believing was so bad that God hadn`t come through for me....I had obeyed leadership implicitly.....had done everything within my power and was convinced that GOd would have provided a way had I been spiritually * in tune* I didn`t know where I failed I just knew that some how...... I had.....
I had run a healthy growing twig....had had a new student in each of the three classes that we had run that year....was speaking/doing the word like crazy....even turned away the sweetest boy whom I had known for years and now wanted to get serious.....because he wasn`t interested in twi.....
Anyway....I was being treated to my first face melting by my creepy lc for being such a spiritual loser.....when i asked him if I couldn`t repeat my app year as a wow....I thought that maybe God could teach me where I had blown it on the wow field....you know you were supposed to grow ten years spiritually...blahdee blah.... well the guy shut up mid scream and calmed right down and commended me for my meakness and willingness to learn. I`d a jumped off of a building at that point to get away from the screaming....
I am serious...I honestly believed that it was all my fault.....and that going wow God would have to teach me...
In hind sight I can see that it wasn`t God who let me down or myself that that failed a task....it was just an impossible standard set.
So I just went out wow and repeated my app corpes year..... a new and even worse nightmare :(
It was NOT WRITTEN DOWN ANYWHERE that this was to be a lifetime of twi service?? NOT ONE PIECE OF LITERATURE.....
Sky said it was not- It was- on the front of the Corps brochure and other places. If you were too challenged to get this sorry maybe the program was not for you anyway. If you were awake at some point during your apprentice year you would have gotten this I'd think.
WW - "ONCE a Marine, ALWAYS a Marine." means just that always a marine just like you are always a graduate of the school you graduated from not the same or to be confused with lifetime. LIFETIME-The period of time during which an individual is alive.
life·time ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lftm)
n.
The period of time during which an individual is alive.
The period of time during which property, an object, a process, or a phenomenon exists or functions.
adj.
Continuing for a lifetime; lifelong.
Occurring or measured over a person's active career: a lifetime batting average.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Excerpt From the By The Way article #119
" After graduation they go where they want to go and work at the job or profession of their choosing. But their major or primary goal will be to help people to get blessed so others also may have a "more than Abundant Life" The graduates serve in areas of concern, interest and need.
( I believe that this was later updated to The Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern, interest and need. where they serve depends upon their desire, ability, and the needs of the ministry.)
We have been through this before on another thread most posters who were in the Corps Got it, they understood what that meant. Regardless the claim that it was not on literature is not substantiated by facts. We are on the trail here of a very important lost Quote so I don't want this cleaver sideline to interrupt it, in case it shows up. So I'll stay on topic now thanks lest we forget what we are searching for. Unless that was the point? ........
If you were too challenged to get this sorry maybe the program was not for you anyway. If you were awake at some point during your apprentice year you would have gotten this I think*
What an arrogant ugly statement..I can almost hear the venom with which leadership uttered the same thing when used to keep us in line during that year.....usually to be followed in scathing vitriol dripping tones by ...... maaaaybe your heart never really WAS to be corpes in the first place hmmmmmmmm? Were you perhaps a LIAR when you applied...hmmmm? or have you just ALWAYS been a LOSER....a FAILURE..... ..hmmmmmm which is it???? liar, loser, or failure??????
ANY reason for backing out after applying during that app year was viewed as *breaking a vow or commitment to God* and the threatened consequences were dire......spiritual death followed by probable physical death....as well as being branded a liar and dissapointment to God and betrayer of the trust of his ministry...bah
Dove SURE you got it during your app year....but by THEN it was way too late. Geeze you had already unkowingly made the commitment......
There was no backing out short of spiritual suicide .... by the time you learned that it was a lifetime commitment.
Shoot I was told that was what one did if they loved God.....to not go meant that you didn`t love him.....and were not worthey to fellowship with the president of the ministry much less other corpes grads....
Who DIDN`T want to love God and be found worthey? The promo I attended at the roa billed it as how to be the BEST tc....a far cry from a lifetime commitment that nothing including unexpected pregnancies, marriage, lack of finances or unavailable classes was to keep you from completeing :(
Gee.....so many areas of inference and double-speak.....
Just like all the programs, wows, college wows, university of life, corps training..........definitions changed, expectations changed, terminology changed, leadership changed, campuses changed, "revelation" changed.
In fact, there was a time when a few teachings at Emporia ENCOURAGED CORPS GRADS TO BECOME BUSINESSMEN AND BE THE FIRST TO DONATE ONE MILLION DOLLARS TO TWI.
Anyone remember that????
Several of the 7th corps had plans to do this........upon graduation, start and run a successful business. It was all in that "Word in Culture" movement that was sweeping thru the ministry. Heck, there were musicians, and artists, and cartoonists, and painters, etc.........all with FUTURE PLANS.
There was NO WEEKLY CORPS MEETINGS AFTER GRADUATION at this time. Once graduated, the corps was given full rein of his hearts' desires.....to glorify God. Of course, limb coordinator types were brought back to hq after three or four years for retraining......but the majority moved in other directions with their lives. The military corps and the major "celebrities" were given free license to follow their careers...
It was accepted policy.
And, even back then.......'76 - '79 (???)....there were no definite policies. But then, twi put together that promotion of some fictional corps guy (a way productions actor) who had his heart set on serving as a corps grad for life. I think his name was Dan XXXXX (something).....this video helped to instill the NEW POLICY......TO SERVE WITH/FOR TWI A LIFETIME.
But again........depending on where you were, what teachings you sat in, what leadership you had, what ideals they promoted, etc........everyone's experience was different.
No two people saw the same twi.
And, veepee's scam to "the sunset corps" and elders........TO BUILD A HOME AT CAMP GUNNISON AND WHEN THEY DIE, THE HOME BECOMES THE PROPERTY OF TWI. Yeah.........another wrinkle in the ongoing changes of twi. Was there any takers? Not one!
But again........depending on where you were, what teachings you sat in, what leadership you had, what ideals they promoted, etc........everyone's experience was different.
No two people saw the same twi.
Then simply prove it on this topic we are discussing on getting born again.
Show us when and where in twi it was even SAID, let alone in WRITING, that speaking in tongues is a requirement for salvation.
I'm even willing to bet big bucks that it was never even STATED BY TWI, by ACCIDENT,...let alone TAUGHT in WRITING anywhere in TWI.
That is how sure I am.
TWI taught that salvation comes with belief in Jesus Christ, by GRACE we are saved, not of works lest any man should boast.
TWI taught we are born again of incorruptible seed via Romans 10:9.
I don't doubt that some signed on for a program before taking the time to see what it was about. The statement was that it was not printed on literature It was! that's a fact. If one fails to investigate before leaping into a contract then I suppose that would be the fault of the leepee. While it may be a hard lesson ,it does not disprove the facts. Being a wise consumer is the responsibility of the person.
The Way offered a program to learn Twig Leadership for those who did not want to make a lifetime of service commitment. It was different from the Corps program. I could post the binder cover and the contents ,but then why bother someone would just say it was not really there.
Now, people entering the Way Corps were entering for a period of training,
after which they would choose to accept assignents for a time, or not accept them.
Their commitment to serving God would remain, and their training would remain.
They would apply that in their everyday lives.
That's why, for a time, the expression
"corps vet" coexisted with "wow vet."
Yeah........I remember that!
I bought one of those "corps vet" shirts........and wore it alot. But then, like so many other things......it was "out of sync" with the changes. And, I shelved mine.
Plus......after graduation, many corps CHOOSE their location and bought a home.....like igotout.
And, coming to Corps Week was a time of reunion........to reconnect and all. And, those couple of years where people sold their wares at roa in the Word in Culture tent.....or whatever it was called. All kinds of things were sold by corps and noncorps alike.
Just a totally different set of policies and expectations.
Actually, I remember my HFC's telling me that they went into the WC because it was merely to teach people how to be HFC's. That's it - A lifetime of service to them meant serving God's word to people. It meant teaching people in their homes and giving of their time as they saw fit - it had absolutely NOTHING to do with being assigned to live in a specific location or region - it had absolutely NOTHING to do with being on TWIt payroll - it was simply to learn how to be a Twig Coordinator and to take that learning back to their home and run twig.
There was no commitment to be a twig coordinator for the rest of their lives, just that they were now equipped to do so. It was expected that they would run a twig for a while, but no mention of that being for the rest of their lives, much less for TWI to dictate where or how they lived and it NEVER meant to them that they would be put on TWI payroll or under any other obligation to TWI. It was simply a voluntary program for those who, at that time, wanted to learn how to be twig coordinators.
Then what was the purpose of the twig coordinators training program why do a 3-4 year stint when you can do it in a weekend and be a cooridinator with no commitment attached. If all you wanted to do was run a twig why go thriugh the extra work?
And why would the Way print a Brochure saying that
" After graduation they go where they want to go and work at the job or profession of their choosing. But their major or primary goal will be to help people to get blessed so others also may have a "more than Abundant Life" The graduates serve in areas of concern, interest and need if they did not intend to require it? They print things like this because they are promoting their programs they don't include requirements that they have no intention of following just to fill space. They put it there because it explains the intentions of the program hense promotional brochure, they intend people to read and remember that was what they signed up for. Just in case years later they should forget and want a weasle clause if things did not turn out quite to their liking.
Sure thats what the publications said dove....too damned bad that wasn`t how it was implemented.
Like everything twi did ... there was the public persona and how they presented things ....and then there was the reality of how things operated once a person was pressured into making and keeping a committment.
You can pretend that the pressure, the dishonest representation, the immoral manipulation to ensure compliance didn`t exist.... but that in no way negates the dishonesty, bullying and manipulation with which many of us were treated.
Sure thats what the publications said dove....too damned bad that wasn`t how it was implemented.
Like everything twi did ... there was the public persona and how they presented things ....and then there was the reality of how things operated once a person was pressured into making and keeping a committment.
You can pretend that the pressure, the dishonest representation, the immoral manipulation to ensure compliance didn`t exist.... but that in no way negates the dishonesty, bullying and manipulation with which many of us were treated.
Rascal I think you missed the point. I never spoke about pretending that the pressure, the dishonest representation, the immoral manipulation to ensure compliance didn't exist.... And I never said it did not!
Sky posted what was an inaccurate comment
It was NOT WRITTEN DOWN ANYWHERE that this was to be a lifetime of twi service?? NOT ONE PIECE OF LITERATURE.
The brochures tell otherwise as you yourself have admitted they did.
Sure that's what the publications said dove. {QUOTE}
I spoke only to the incorrectness of the statement which for reasons I have outlined before needs to be correct. Whatever side of how things turned out you fall on, makes no difference in the fact that there was literature printed that contained that information. Once again speak out , but speak the truth. It does no good to deny the obvious when it's right there for all to see. To admit that there was literature printed only speaks to that fact ,it does not credit or discredit the program.
Then simply prove it on this topic we are discussing on getting born again.
Show us when and where in twi it was even SAID, let alone in WRITING, that speaking in tongues is a requirement for salvation.
I'm even willing to bet big bucks that it was never even STATED BY TWI, by ACCIDENT,...let alone TAUGHT in WRITING anywhere in TWI.
That is how sure I am.
I remember Craig M. on a sunday teaching service saying:
"you can't REALLY say your born again unless you speak in tounges."
He taught that someone can think they are born again, but can't really be sure that they are born again UNLESS they speak in tounges.
Craig never said that you HAVE to speak in tounges to be born again, although it was a little confusing the way he taught it. Maybe a fellowship coord misinterpreted it and taught that.
He did say that if you believe jesus is god, you can't really get born again.
Craig never said that you HAVE to speak in tounges to be born again, ...
Right on! ... Craig never said or implied that you have to speak in tongues, to get born again.
Therefore, the internet page that Belle directed us to, on the first page, is wrong, regarding their statement about twi's "tongues" teaching and its supposed implications.
I think some of the posters comments about not realizing the Corps programme was a lifetime committment tells me they were really doing it for the ministry and not for God anyway.
Somewhere in their hearts they should have been making a LIFETIME committment to God.
And I think that is borne out in the fact by the ones who are still forging ahead with the things of God after TWI.
They are the ones who aren't bellyachin' about what twi did to them.
Actually, I remember my HFC's telling me that they went into the WC because it was merely to teach people how to be HFC's. That's it - A lifetime of service to them meant serving God's word to people. It meant teaching people in their homes and giving of their time as they saw fit - it had absolutely NOTHING to do with being assigned to live in a specific location or region - it had absolutely NOTHING to do with being on TWIt payroll - it was simply to learn how to be a Twig Coordinator and to take that learning back to their home and run twig.
There was no commitment to be a twig coordinator for the rest of their lives, just that they were now equipped to do so. It was expected that they would run a twig for a while, but no mention of that being for the rest of their lives, much less for TWI to dictate where or how they lived and it NEVER meant to them that they would be put on TWI payroll or under any other obligation to TWI. It was simply a voluntary program for those who, at that time, wanted to learn how to be twig coordinators.
Very well said, Belle. :)
That's exactly the way it was presented to me. The brochures simply talked about a lifetime of Christian service to God.............so, what the heck, I love God. Why not learn a few things?
Per WhiteDove:
And why would the Way print a Brochure saying that
" After graduation they go where they want to go and work at the job or profession of their choosing. But their major or primary goal will be to help people to get blessed so others also may have a "more than Abundant Life" The graduates serve in areas of concern, interest and need if they did not intend to require it?
You know, WhiteDove........I hear what you are saying. Really I do.
But......"primary goal will be to help people to get blessed so others also many have a more abundant life." Yeah, I want to help people. Yeah, I could see myself serving in an area of concern, interest and need.
Some CORPS........were serving in a military capacity for Uncle Sam.
Some CORPS........were serving in a business sector to help others.
Some CORPS........were serving full-time for twi.
Some CORPS........were serving on college campuses, as they chose to get more education.
Some CORPS........were serving and overseeing WOW Branches in an Outreach City.
Some CORPS........were serving God by raising a quiver-full of kids and helping neighbors.
Some CORPS........were serving by singing, writing, acting, playing in orchestras, etc.
Some CORPS........were serving in flight services at hq or American Airlines or wherever.
Some CORPS........married non-corps and, together, they were both stronger to serve in love.
I distinctly remember a time in twi history when "Word in Culture" principles were dictating the over-all concepts of twi. In 1982, VPW was presented with a special book written by top leadership, at his 40th Anniversary as President. The three areas of this book displayed the unique full-range of serving God's Word on a silver platter in all walks of life.......or something like that.
BUT.......when "the corps director" took the reins of "the presidency"........the fascist elements of legalism started gripping twi. LCM wanted to prove his leadership dominance and outdistance wierwille's foundation.......and the encroachment of legalism picked up its pace. Corps promotions changed. Brochures changed.
And.......year after year, the inresidence corps numbers dwindled BECAUSE NOW IT WAS PROMOTED AS A LIFETIME OF TWI SERVICE WITH YEARLY CORPS INTERVIEWS AND ASSIGNMENTS.
After the 17th Corps.........and fog year fiasco.......the corps numbers really dropped off.
Today, what is there.........maybe 13 - 18 inresidence corps?
Nothing like LEGALISM to kill a heart of giving and service.
Allan, it sounds to me like you still need a pat on the back and to feel special about being a participant in the corpes program.
Who the hell are you to think you know what our hearts and commitments were to twenty years ago?
The ones who are *belly achin* are the ones who were misled and mistreated and have damned good reason to resent that their honest intentions, pure motives and earnest desire to serve God were exploited.
I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with dwelling on the evils of TWi on an ex TWI forum. I think people need to know what happened. I think there are still people who were crushed by TWI legalism, and just discovering NOW that they were less evil than those that were crushing them, M&A ing them, slurring their whole lives publically among their former friends and believers...
I think the 'Think no evil, don't dwell on negatives, renew your mind' stuff did a great deal to keep people in bondage, because they thought thinking or speaking about a negative situation was wrong. So stuff got covered up, and the bullies and legalists just got more power, while good people cowered in silence, due to that doctrine.
I think each person should decide for themselves how long to dwell on their negative TWI experiences, it isn't anyone else's business. Everyone is different, everyone had different experiences, everyone processes things differently. Some people went though mild experiences, some went through very damaging experiences.
Some people can't move on at this point, they have to actually work through their painful experiences and put them to rest. Ignoring them and refusing to think or speak of them doesn't make them go away.
I am actually rather sensitive about being told to do something, or to being reproved being told what I say or do isn't 'good enough'...I doubt I'm the only one. Your post sounded like reproof to me and seemed inappropriate, since some of the posters on this site are not Christian. It is not a requirement for posting here to be Christian, or pfal like in belief.
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WhiteDove
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WordWolf
WhiteDove showed a brochure with a title about
"A Lifetime of Christian Service."
Seems someone needs to explain this again,
and I'm in the mood.
================
"ONCE a Marine, ALWAYS a Marine."
"Semper fidelis" ("Always Faithful.")
Does that mean that a Marine spends the rest of
his life being assigned battlefields by the US
government?
Of course NOT.
He follows orders for his TOUR OF DUTY
(or tourS of duty.)
Then he is discharged and returns to
civilian life.
Is he still a Marine?
Yes.
But he's "retired" from "active duty".
He is a VETERAN.
He takes the training and experiences
he learned in the Marines, and
applies some of it to daily life, and
he generally upholds their principles
for much or all of his life.
That's what "ONCE a Marine, ALWAYS a Marine" means.
=====
Now,
people entering the Way Corps were entering for
a period of training,
after which they would choose to accept assignents
for a time, or not accept them.
Their commitment to serving God would remain,
and their training would remain.
They would apply that in their everyday lives.
That's why, for a time, the expression
"corps vet" coexisted with "wow vet."
A wow made a commitment to travel and speak
for ONE year, and then he went home.
He didn't move EVERY year.
Corps entered the program with the intention
and stated goal of learning things they would
apply the rest of their lives.
They never agreed-in writing or any other
way-to lifelong servitude to twi.
However, once they were in for several
months, they were told that was what
they had signed up for.
(Skyrider mentioned that.)
======
In short,
"a lifetime of Christian service"
is one thing.
ANY Christian can make such a commitment
to God, ANYTIME.
"A lifetime commitment to serve twi"
is something else entirely...
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socks
When was that, WW? Could you explain what that meant?
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rascal
Yeah, I remember that corpes was presented as THE best way to be THE best tc, and THE best way to be the best servant for God.
I had no idea at the time that it was considered a vow and a commitment to God that could not be terminated under any condition without deadly consequences :(
We were told that IF we loved God...we would be in the corpes....no question..at the promo martindale stated that was why he only hung out with corpes because he only wanted people who loved God aroundd him......I knew that I didn`t have any *natural leadership ability* as per the requirements...but I DID earnestly want to know how to best love/serve God.......it was recomended that I enter in spite of my shortcomings anyway and that God would just have to develop whatever was necessary within me....that if I put my heart and bu tt on the line...God would HAVE to honor that....I wanted to be my best for God...so against my better judgement, I enrolled.
It was pretty bad....I couldn`t enter residence at the end of my app year because some of the classes that were required had not been available in my state (or aany OTHER state that I had ever lived in for that matter) ....course that meant my believing was faulty and I personally had failed already.....I was treated to my first face melting because of my shortcomings....obviously if I had been spiritually minded I wouldn`t have missed the revelation on how to get the requirements met......I had failed....I was so ashamed...yet I didn`t know where or how or when I had blown it.....
It was terribly frustrating being expected to just sign on the line and that God would cover the financial, spiritual etc...it was your fault....if he didn`t ...you were a spiritual loser.
Now mind you, I would have had the tution no problem, but a month after signing up....where as I had been saving every penny of every paycheck......it was deemed best/required by leadership that i move out of my Mom`s home (negative unbelieveing vibes you know) and rent an apartment with another believer....so at the end of the year of just scraping by in an expensive apt I didn`t have my tuition entirely together either.
I was considered SUCH a loser.... I was so ashamed...I didn`t know why my believing was so bad that God hadn`t come through for me....I had obeyed leadership implicitly.....had done everything within my power and was convinced that GOd would have provided a way had I been spiritually * in tune* I didn`t know where I failed I just knew that some how...... I had.....
I had run a healthy growing twig....had had a new student in each of the three classes that we had run that year....was speaking/doing the word like crazy....even turned away the sweetest boy whom I had known for years and now wanted to get serious.....because he wasn`t interested in twi.....
Anyway....I was being treated to my first face melting by my creepy lc for being such a spiritual loser.....when i asked him if I couldn`t repeat my app year as a wow....I thought that maybe God could teach me where I had blown it on the wow field....you know you were supposed to grow ten years spiritually...blahdee blah.... well the guy shut up mid scream and calmed right down and commended me for my meakness and willingness to learn. I`d a jumped off of a building at that point to get away from the screaming....
I am serious...I honestly believed that it was all my fault.....and that going wow God would have to teach me...
In hind sight I can see that it wasn`t God who let me down or myself that that failed a task....it was just an impossible standard set.
So I just went out wow and repeated my app corpes year..... a new and even worse nightmare :(
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WhiteDove
Sky said it was not- It was- on the front of the Corps brochure and other places. If you were too challenged to get this sorry maybe the program was not for you anyway. If you were awake at some point during your apprentice year you would have gotten this I'd think.
WW - "ONCE a Marine, ALWAYS a Marine." means just that always a marine just like you are always a graduate of the school you graduated from not the same or to be confused with lifetime. LIFETIME-The period of time during which an individual is alive.
life·time ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lftm)
n.
The period of time during which an individual is alive.
The period of time during which property, an object, a process, or a phenomenon exists or functions.
adj.
Continuing for a lifetime; lifelong.
Occurring or measured over a person's active career: a lifetime batting average.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Excerpt From the By The Way article #119
" After graduation they go where they want to go and work at the job or profession of their choosing. But their major or primary goal will be to help people to get blessed so others also may have a "more than Abundant Life" The graduates serve in areas of concern, interest and need.
( I believe that this was later updated to The Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern, interest and need. where they serve depends upon their desire, ability, and the needs of the ministry.)
We have been through this before on another thread most posters who were in the Corps Got it, they understood what that meant. Regardless the claim that it was not on literature is not substantiated by facts. We are on the trail here of a very important lost Quote so I don't want this cleaver sideline to interrupt it, in case it shows up. So I'll stay on topic now thanks lest we forget what we are searching for. Unless that was the point? ........
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rascal
If you were too challenged to get this sorry maybe the program was not for you anyway. If you were awake at some point during your apprentice year you would have gotten this I think*
What an arrogant ugly statement..I can almost hear the venom with which leadership uttered the same thing when used to keep us in line during that year.....usually to be followed in scathing vitriol dripping tones by ...... maaaaybe your heart never really WAS to be corpes in the first place hmmmmmmmm? Were you perhaps a LIAR when you applied...hmmmm? or have you just ALWAYS been a LOSER....a FAILURE..... ..hmmmmmm which is it???? liar, loser, or failure??????
ANY reason for backing out after applying during that app year was viewed as *breaking a vow or commitment to God* and the threatened consequences were dire......spiritual death followed by probable physical death....as well as being branded a liar and dissapointment to God and betrayer of the trust of his ministry...bah
Dove SURE you got it during your app year....but by THEN it was way too late. Geeze you had already unkowingly made the commitment......
There was no backing out short of spiritual suicide .... by the time you learned that it was a lifetime commitment.
Shoot I was told that was what one did if they loved God.....to not go meant that you didn`t love him.....and were not worthey to fellowship with the president of the ministry much less other corpes grads....
Who DIDN`T want to love God and be found worthey? The promo I attended at the roa billed it as how to be the BEST tc....a far cry from a lifetime commitment that nothing including unexpected pregnancies, marriage, lack of finances or unavailable classes was to keep you from completeing :(
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oldiesman
Go to now Oakspear. I haven't derailed in ages. :P
Come on guys, I'm still waiting for an answer to my two questions.
Would someone who has taken Way of Abundance PLEASE come forward and report whether or not Craig taught anything in there on "how to get born again"?
If so, PLEASE quote it?
Make my day, before Happy Ho Ho Relo :D
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skyrider
WOW, where to start on this topic?
Gee.....so many areas of inference and double-speak.....
Just like all the programs, wows, college wows, university of life, corps training..........definitions changed, expectations changed, terminology changed, leadership changed, campuses changed, "revelation" changed.
In fact, there was a time when a few teachings at Emporia ENCOURAGED CORPS GRADS TO BECOME BUSINESSMEN AND BE THE FIRST TO DONATE ONE MILLION DOLLARS TO TWI.
Anyone remember that????
Several of the 7th corps had plans to do this........upon graduation, start and run a successful business. It was all in that "Word in Culture" movement that was sweeping thru the ministry. Heck, there were musicians, and artists, and cartoonists, and painters, etc.........all with FUTURE PLANS.
There was NO WEEKLY CORPS MEETINGS AFTER GRADUATION at this time. Once graduated, the corps was given full rein of his hearts' desires.....to glorify God. Of course, limb coordinator types were brought back to hq after three or four years for retraining......but the majority moved in other directions with their lives. The military corps and the major "celebrities" were given free license to follow their careers...
It was accepted policy.
And, even back then.......'76 - '79 (???)....there were no definite policies. But then, twi put together that promotion of some fictional corps guy (a way productions actor) who had his heart set on serving as a corps grad for life. I think his name was Dan XXXXX (something).....this video helped to instill the NEW POLICY......TO SERVE WITH/FOR TWI A LIFETIME.
But again........depending on where you were, what teachings you sat in, what leadership you had, what ideals they promoted, etc........everyone's experience was different.
No two people saw the same twi.
And, veepee's scam to "the sunset corps" and elders........TO BUILD A HOME AT CAMP GUNNISON AND WHEN THEY DIE, THE HOME BECOMES THE PROPERTY OF TWI. Yeah.........another wrinkle in the ongoing changes of twi. Was there any takers? Not one!
Lots more.....but I gotta go.
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oldiesman
Then simply prove it on this topic we are discussing on getting born again.
Show us when and where in twi it was even SAID, let alone in WRITING, that speaking in tongues is a requirement for salvation.
I'm even willing to bet big bucks that it was never even STATED BY TWI, by ACCIDENT,...let alone TAUGHT in WRITING anywhere in TWI.
That is how sure I am.
TWI taught that salvation comes with belief in Jesus Christ, by GRACE we are saved, not of works lest any man should boast.
TWI taught we are born again of incorruptible seed via Romans 10:9.
Happy Ho Ho Relo Countdown -- 4 days away. :D
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WhiteDove
I don't doubt that some signed on for a program before taking the time to see what it was about. The statement was that it was not printed on literature It was! that's a fact. If one fails to investigate before leaping into a contract then I suppose that would be the fault of the leepee. While it may be a hard lesson ,it does not disprove the facts. Being a wise consumer is the responsibility of the person.
The Way offered a program to learn Twig Leadership for those who did not want to make a lifetime of service commitment. It was different from the Corps program. I could post the binder cover and the contents ,but then why bother someone would just say it was not really there.
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skyrider
Per WordWolf:
Yeah........I remember that!
I bought one of those "corps vet" shirts........and wore it alot. But then, like so many other things......it was "out of sync" with the changes. And, I shelved mine.
Plus......after graduation, many corps CHOOSE their location and bought a home.....like igotout.
And, coming to Corps Week was a time of reunion........to reconnect and all. And, those couple of years where people sold their wares at roa in the Word in Culture tent.....or whatever it was called. All kinds of things were sold by corps and noncorps alike.
Just a totally different set of policies and expectations.
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Belle
Actually, I remember my HFC's telling me that they went into the WC because it was merely to teach people how to be HFC's. That's it - A lifetime of service to them meant serving God's word to people. It meant teaching people in their homes and giving of their time as they saw fit - it had absolutely NOTHING to do with being assigned to live in a specific location or region - it had absolutely NOTHING to do with being on TWIt payroll - it was simply to learn how to be a Twig Coordinator and to take that learning back to their home and run twig.
There was no commitment to be a twig coordinator for the rest of their lives, just that they were now equipped to do so. It was expected that they would run a twig for a while, but no mention of that being for the rest of their lives, much less for TWI to dictate where or how they lived and it NEVER meant to them that they would be put on TWI payroll or under any other obligation to TWI. It was simply a voluntary program for those who, at that time, wanted to learn how to be twig coordinators.
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WhiteDove
Then what was the purpose of the twig coordinators training program why do a 3-4 year stint when you can do it in a weekend and be a cooridinator with no commitment attached. If all you wanted to do was run a twig why go thriugh the extra work?
And why would the Way print a Brochure saying that
" After graduation they go where they want to go and work at the job or profession of their choosing. But their major or primary goal will be to help people to get blessed so others also may have a "more than Abundant Life" The graduates serve in areas of concern, interest and need if they did not intend to require it? They print things like this because they are promoting their programs they don't include requirements that they have no intention of following just to fill space. They put it there because it explains the intentions of the program hense promotional brochure, they intend people to read and remember that was what they signed up for. Just in case years later they should forget and want a weasle clause if things did not turn out quite to their liking.
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rascal
Sure thats what the publications said dove....too damned bad that wasn`t how it was implemented.
Like everything twi did ... there was the public persona and how they presented things ....and then there was the reality of how things operated once a person was pressured into making and keeping a committment.
You can pretend that the pressure, the dishonest representation, the immoral manipulation to ensure compliance didn`t exist.... but that in no way negates the dishonesty, bullying and manipulation with which many of us were treated.
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WhiteDove
Rascal I think you missed the point. I never spoke about pretending that the pressure, the dishonest representation, the immoral manipulation to ensure compliance didn't exist.... And I never said it did not!
Sky posted what was an inaccurate comment
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nandon
I remember Craig M. on a sunday teaching service saying:
"you can't REALLY say your born again unless you speak in tounges."
He taught that someone can think they are born again, but can't really be sure that they are born again UNLESS they speak in tounges.
Craig never said that you HAVE to speak in tounges to be born again, although it was a little confusing the way he taught it. Maybe a fellowship coord misinterpreted it and taught that.
He did say that if you believe jesus is god, you can't really get born again.
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oldiesman
Right on! ... Craig never said or implied that you have to speak in tongues, to get born again.
Therefore, the internet page that Belle directed us to, on the first page, is wrong, regarding their statement about twi's "tongues" teaching and its supposed implications.
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Allan
I think some of the posters comments about not realizing the Corps programme was a lifetime committment tells me they were really doing it for the ministry and not for God anyway.
Somewhere in their hearts they should have been making a LIFETIME committment to God.
And I think that is borne out in the fact by the ones who are still forging ahead with the things of God after TWI.
They are the ones who aren't bellyachin' about what twi did to them.
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skyrider
Very well said, Belle. :)
That's exactly the way it was presented to me. The brochures simply talked about a lifetime of Christian service to God.............so, what the heck, I love God. Why not learn a few things?
You know, WhiteDove........I hear what you are saying. Really I do.
But......"primary goal will be to help people to get blessed so others also many have a more abundant life." Yeah, I want to help people. Yeah, I could see myself serving in an area of concern, interest and need.
Some CORPS........were serving in a military capacity for Uncle Sam.
Some CORPS........were serving in a business sector to help others.
Some CORPS........were serving full-time for twi.
Some CORPS........were serving on college campuses, as they chose to get more education.
Some CORPS........were serving and overseeing WOW Branches in an Outreach City.
Some CORPS........were serving God by raising a quiver-full of kids and helping neighbors.
Some CORPS........were serving by singing, writing, acting, playing in orchestras, etc.
Some CORPS........were serving in flight services at hq or American Airlines or wherever.
Some CORPS........married non-corps and, together, they were both stronger to serve in love.
I distinctly remember a time in twi history when "Word in Culture" principles were dictating the over-all concepts of twi. In 1982, VPW was presented with a special book written by top leadership, at his 40th Anniversary as President. The three areas of this book displayed the unique full-range of serving God's Word on a silver platter in all walks of life.......or something like that.
BUT.......when "the corps director" took the reins of "the presidency"........the fascist elements of legalism started gripping twi. LCM wanted to prove his leadership dominance and outdistance wierwille's foundation.......and the encroachment of legalism picked up its pace. Corps promotions changed. Brochures changed.
And.......year after year, the inresidence corps numbers dwindled BECAUSE NOW IT WAS PROMOTED AS A LIFETIME OF TWI SERVICE WITH YEARLY CORPS INTERVIEWS AND ASSIGNMENTS.
After the 17th Corps.........and fog year fiasco.......the corps numbers really dropped off.
Today, what is there.........maybe 13 - 18 inresidence corps?
Nothing like LEGALISM to kill a heart of giving and service.
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rascal
Allan, it sounds to me like you still need a pat on the back and to feel special about being a participant in the corpes program.
Who the hell are you to think you know what our hearts and commitments were to twenty years ago?
The ones who are *belly achin* are the ones who were misled and mistreated and have damned good reason to resent that their honest intentions, pure motives and earnest desire to serve God were exploited.
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marypoppins
with a slight reluctance i have read and re-read this topic......
I guess from my experience of twi days, at the time of getting Born Again, ( Romans 10:9,10)
i saw nothing wrong...................................
but then twi was my first taste of God, The people roundabout me were loving, God fearing people,
Honest, Tender, and Full of Joy.
I truly understand that many people were hurt, myself included, but we must move on, the adversary
would love us to dwell on the negatives,
Yes we left twi but God hasn't left us, But the question you should be asking yourselves is
WHAT CAN I DO FOR GOD TODAY How can i help someone, Jesus Christ didnt have a
ministry like twi, he kept moving preaching and teaching he didnt hard sell pfal.. and if they
didnt want to know he moved on.
I truly believe that God looks on our hearts, He is the True Healer of Broken Hearts. There are
genuine people out there still hurting and some that have no knowledge that God exists,
We dont have to keep resurrecting the past, Its been 10 years since i left twi, myself and my husband
still run fellowships, for our family and friends and anyone else that wants to come, we just Hold
forth the Word of God and love people, no legalisum, No hatred, i really couldnt live with out God
in my life, i need to serve, i need to love, and i need to share Gods wonderful grace and peace.
So remember we all joined twi for what reason...........................people, ministry, or God
if the answer is God then what are you doing for him now?..........................He has no hands but our hands.
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Bramble
I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with dwelling on the evils of TWi on an ex TWI forum. I think people need to know what happened. I think there are still people who were crushed by TWI legalism, and just discovering NOW that they were less evil than those that were crushing them, M&A ing them, slurring their whole lives publically among their former friends and believers...
I think the 'Think no evil, don't dwell on negatives, renew your mind' stuff did a great deal to keep people in bondage, because they thought thinking or speaking about a negative situation was wrong. So stuff got covered up, and the bullies and legalists just got more power, while good people cowered in silence, due to that doctrine.
Merry Yule
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marypoppins
Bramble please dont take me the wrong way, but how long should you dwell on it.
sometimes it is better to move on instead of re-living it over and over, i know cause that was what
i was doing and each time i would hurt, i was just trying to help not condemn anyone.
Speaking about negative situations are not wrong, if you are looking for advice. or guidance.
and i sure wouldnt want to be a legalist because i shared the Word.
Yes i know this is a ex way forum, i didnt read that anyone had a great experience with God, and i
thought that was what fellowship was about, May be for the glory of God people could share some
testamonies of what God has done for them, rather than the evil that the adversary creates.
I am sorry if what i posted offended any one that truly was not my intentions
Love marypoppins
:wub: :wub: :wub:
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Bramble
I think each person should decide for themselves how long to dwell on their negative TWI experiences, it isn't anyone else's business. Everyone is different, everyone had different experiences, everyone processes things differently. Some people went though mild experiences, some went through very damaging experiences.
Some people can't move on at this point, they have to actually work through their painful experiences and put them to rest. Ignoring them and refusing to think or speak of them doesn't make them go away.
I am actually rather sensitive about being told to do something, or to being reproved being told what I say or do isn't 'good enough'...I doubt I'm the only one. Your post sounded like reproof to me and seemed inappropriate, since some of the posters on this site are not Christian. It is not a requirement for posting here to be Christian, or pfal like in belief.
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