Thin Liz, if you're still about - I'm also curious about the AC statement. What is it about taking their AC that concerns you? Is it the content? Or the requirements to take it? (if there be any). Or the expectation after you've taken it?
I was in seances and there was power. I operated devil spirits and black magic and there was power
I repeat my question: What specifically are you talking about here? What kind of power are you referring to? And what power did you see in TWI that outshone the power of "the dark side"?
...and you have not said who you thought the "thought police" were/are, and why you think that they were fired. Many here, including myself, were targets of such, not that long ago.
I loved my fellowship too. The rank and file usually are the best, they all want to "do the Word" and love God.
That was always an issue for us as to why we didn't leave years ago............"but we love our fellowship".
So what was the issue then? What must it be to leave?
The only way I know how to describe it, is in a parable (call me JC for a moment, humor me)
.............here it is
There is a man, that loved McDonalds food.
Ate there at least once a week. Even got the salads
Ended up talking to his best friend who needed a job, told him about McDonalds and how great it was, and so his friend got a job there,worked hard and eventually bought his own!
Now the man visited his friend's McDonalds 4 times a week.
After a while the man started getting fat. And felt sluggish.
But he kept going because he loved the food, and his friend.
His friend supports his family and mother and grandma, and makes a good living finally.
One day, the man starts to do research about health and the foods he ate.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaahhhhhhhhhhh! "He should not be eating the food from Mc'D's, its fattening,
who knows what makes those french fries taste so good." he said.
He tells his friend that the food he's making needs to be healthier, so what can he do about it. After all, he is the owner.
His friend says he can't change the igredients, they are already made up, that is what make McD's so great!
He would lose all his customers if they changed.
Now the man, writes a letter to HQ of Mc'D's. The response was less than desirable:
"We have changed, to 100% vegetable oil. You should be happy. But people come to us because of the flavor.
You don't have to eat our food, but there is nothing else out there like us!"
He was upset and decided to give it another wirl, and went back to McD's for another few months.
Still felt yucky.
Decided to dig a little deeper into the Mc'D's secret ingredients.
Come to find out, it is worse than he thought. Terrible farming practices, slave labor, hormonal cows, dangerous meat packing plants (where injuries are swept under the rug) and addictive flavoring agents,
the list goes on and on.............
What does the man do?
He LOVES his freind, he wants to support his friends restaurant that has given him a better life.
But he cannot support the company of Mc'D's. It is unhealthy and hurts the people eating it, and those that work for them.
We are like that man. Our fellowships ( most of us) were like that restaurant. The owner is the fellowship coordinator. HQ well, is HQ
Do you stay because you love your friend? That is a choice most of us had to make.
I couldn't support the machine of the ministry and its bad practices. What I thought was good spiritual food, was really bad for me.
The choice is yours. But make sure it's for the right reasons. Loving my fellowship was not enough for me!
While I was ignorant, it was only bliss for a while....................
( no offence to any McDonald's employers or ees, or eaters! )
I UNDERSTAND that it was GOD who saved my life but HE chose The Way Ministry.
and -----------
I believe in my heart that God lead me into the Way ministry and then God lead me out.
Thin Lizzy -- now that I am out, I've been able to see more objectively how God has chosen many organizations for me in my life. Of course if one is *in*, then there is no alternative to it, except for twi. Looking over my past, I see ----
He chose a small non-denominational *full-gospel* church in southern Illinois to get me to the altar.
He chose a college Jesus Freak group in southern Indiana to get me involved in fellowship.
He chose a small Weslyan church to teach me about God's grace vs. His wrath.
He chose a charismatic Catholic group to get me speaking in tongues.
He chose twi so I could hear the Word like it hasn't been taught since the first century.
(did I really just say that!!!???)
Someone give me a *dope-slap*!
Point I am trying to make is I now see God uses many groups/denominations as we individually need it. Maybe some will say I just *happened* upon these fellowships at the right time, and they could be right. I dunno. Who does for sure? What convinces me that God had a hand in it is -- He knew my heart's desire (at that time) and He is Jehovah-Jireh -- Jehovah will see, or provide.
Interesting thing (to me at any rate) is that I think the first occurrance of this is in Genesis 22:14 where Abraham is about to sacrifice Isaac. In verse 13, he sees a ram caught in a thicket by his horns.
What does God provide?? A replacement. A substitute. The ram caught in the thicket by his horns. Christ had the *crown* of thorns on His head (ram in a thicket). He's the replacement, the substitute for us and because of Him, God takes us where we need to be, when we need to be there. (IMO)
ps -- I learned this from a Messianic group on a friday night bible study, when Pastor Stan was hammering home points about the *types* of Christ in the OT. (I better shut up here -- or I'll relegate this to the doctrinal forum!) :D
Anyway -- if that includes twi for you, have at it and enjoy.
Sadly, their track record leaves a lot to be desired and I for one would be pretty hesitant to go back to a group that does a better job of imploding, rather than exploding on the world religious scene.
Maybe the water is deeper than I think and maybe there are alligators waiting just off shore and maybe, just maybe I sense that which is why I won’t get committed by attending the A.C. but for now, the fellowship in my town, in my state is very sweet and my TWIG leadership are just the best.
So I’m wading in slowly and thank you for your words of warning. If the shark bites me off at the kneecaps, then at least, I was forewarned.
The last twi fellowship I was at wasn't very sweet, but by then legalism had done it's dirty work (mid 1980's). If your fellowship is a *rocking* one, enjoy it while it lasts.
The twigs I went to were (overall) invigorating and fun, but once hdqtrs got wind of it, we got the word that *fun* was out, and obedience was *in*. :(
(hope you're not *over and out* for good -- stick around!) :)
I believe in my heart that God lead me into the Way ministry and then God lead me out.
Many of us still believe that.
I SAW loving leaders turn into angry, vicious people.
...after exposure to twi "leadership training."
That doesn't tell you anything?
I did get pushed aside, humiliated and even had my ABS returned several times. If they only wanted money, how come they didn’t just keep it? No, it was more of an insult to keep sending it back
Because it wasn't ONLY about the money-it was about CONTROL.
The humiliation was social sanctions imposed to try to force conformity.
They didn't want your money without your loyalty.
They wanted your blind loyalty and strict obedience FIRST.
Then the money is incidental,
and they can jack up the ABS to any level LATER.
That's simple sociology.
I came back a couple times in the late 90’s, early 00’s only to find the water was still freezing or boiling
And you KEPT coming back?
Maybe the water is deeper than I think and maybe there are alligators waiting just off shore and maybe, just maybe I sense that which is why I won’t get committed by attending the A.C. but for now,
the fellowship in my town, in my state is very sweet and my TWIG leadership are just the best. So I’m wading in slowly and thank you for your words of warning.
If the shark bites me off at the kneecaps, then at least, I was forewarned.
I just wanted to write and say that TWI is NOT going to die, as much as some of you wish it would or has or will.
It's only a question of WHEN....
The top leaders keep steering the ship for the jagged cliffs.
The local leaders can make the deck events fantastic, but can't change that,
and can't change the course-heading.
I love the people in my fellowship; they are rockin’ fun and crazy like some of you.
I was at the 1977 AC with my branch leader. He had had the class before, so he was sitting downstairs watchint it on the tube. I was sitting at the front, and during one break the camera operator asked me to sit in VPW's seat so he could get a fix, for focus I guess. My BC came running up the stairs, wondering why I seemed to be teaching the class.
Ever notice how TWI has foreshadowed many elements of the 'christian patriotism' movement, some aspects of which are quite dangerous. The typical TWI member had their first expose to such extreme right wing views at the Advanced Class.
This quote is taken from the WellSpring Journal of WellSpring Retreat & Resouce Center, a facility specializing in the treatment of victims of thought reform & coercive packaged persuasion.
”…Many of the racist militias share the Anglo-Israel views found in the Christian Identity groups, along with the associated conspiracy theories. While there are variations in the latter, most conspiracy theories espoused by these groups hold that a dark cabal of national and international organizations is plotting the undermining and eventual overthrow of the United States. Among the organizations allegedly allied in this sinister compact besides the United Nations are the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg Society, the Federal Reserve Board and "international bankers," the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Illuminati, the Masons, the Communists, and above all, the Jews…”
Most if not all of these organizations are mentioned in the TWI-promoted books, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, & None Dare Call It Treason. Also, it is the same extreme right wing material that Dr. Peter Beter used to address on his weekly audiotapes, at least one of which vpw played for the 7th & 9th WCs at Emporia in 11/1978, & it was also the essence of a SNS teaching, ‘The Current Psychological Hoax,’ #942 12/03/1978.
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Thin Liz, if you're still about - I'm also curious about the AC statement. What is it about taking their AC that concerns you? Is it the content? Or the requirements to take it? (if there be any). Or the expectation after you've taken it?
Just curious.
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Oakspear
...and you have not said who you thought the "thought police" were/are, and why you think that they were fired. Many here, including myself, were targets of such, not that long ago.
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frank123lol
Thin Lizzy,Hi if you are out there,When you are an ac you are held accountable to God ,so says twi
and if if you fail to live up to thier expectations you are considered lower than whale dung.
I am glad you are happy with twi.I was once too but after being scrutinized all the time for all the
insignificant things my life became a hell on earth.Until one day I had enough and got out,it life has become
exciting once again I have peace in my life mainly because someone is not yelling all the time.
The ac was fun,I learnt alot,however it should be on the grace of God and his actions not on devlil spirits
pronounced wrong on purpose.
Yes there are spiritual influences but God is bigger and better. :D :D :D
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bliss
Lizzy,
As a new "outie" I have to comment.
I loved my fellowship too. The rank and file usually are the best, they all want to "do the Word" and love God.
That was always an issue for us as to why we didn't leave years ago............"but we love our fellowship".
So what was the issue then? What must it be to leave?
The only way I know how to describe it, is in a parable (call me JC for a moment, humor me)
.............here it is
There is a man, that loved McDonalds food.
Ate there at least once a week. Even got the salads
Ended up talking to his best friend who needed a job, told him about McDonalds and how great it was, and so his friend got a job there,worked hard and eventually bought his own!
Now the man visited his friend's McDonalds 4 times a week.
After a while the man started getting fat. And felt sluggish.
But he kept going because he loved the food, and his friend.
His friend supports his family and mother and grandma, and makes a good living finally.
One day, the man starts to do research about health and the foods he ate.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaahhhhhhhhhhh! "He should not be eating the food from Mc'D's, its fattening,
who knows what makes those french fries taste so good." he said.
He tells his friend that the food he's making needs to be healthier, so what can he do about it. After all, he is the owner.
His friend says he can't change the igredients, they are already made up, that is what make McD's so great!
He would lose all his customers if they changed.
Now the man, writes a letter to HQ of Mc'D's. The response was less than desirable:
"We have changed, to 100% vegetable oil. You should be happy. But people come to us because of the flavor.
You don't have to eat our food, but there is nothing else out there like us!"
He was upset and decided to give it another wirl, and went back to McD's for another few months.
Still felt yucky.
Decided to dig a little deeper into the Mc'D's secret ingredients.
Come to find out, it is worse than he thought. Terrible farming practices, slave labor, hormonal cows, dangerous meat packing plants (where injuries are swept under the rug) and addictive flavoring agents,
the list goes on and on.............
What does the man do?
He LOVES his freind, he wants to support his friends restaurant that has given him a better life.
But he cannot support the company of Mc'D's. It is unhealthy and hurts the people eating it, and those that work for them.
We are like that man. Our fellowships ( most of us) were like that restaurant. The owner is the fellowship coordinator. HQ well, is HQ
Do you stay because you love your friend? That is a choice most of us had to make.
I couldn't support the machine of the ministry and its bad practices. What I thought was good spiritual food, was really bad for me.
The choice is yours. But make sure it's for the right reasons. Loving my fellowship was not enough for me!
While I was ignorant, it was only bliss for a while....................
( no offence to any McDonald's employers or ees, or eaters!
)
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likeaneagle
Bliss- I didnt know you left. God Bless you sweety.Your post was awesome,some folks Im sure on chewing on this..no pun intended.
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dmiller
Thin Lizzy -- now that I am out, I've been able to see more objectively how God has chosen many organizations for me in my life. Of course if one is *in*, then there is no alternative to it, except for twi. Looking over my past, I see ----
He chose a small non-denominational *full-gospel* church in southern Illinois to get me to the altar.
He chose a college Jesus Freak group in southern Indiana to get me involved in fellowship.
He chose a small Weslyan church to teach me about God's grace vs. His wrath.
He chose a charismatic Catholic group to get me speaking in tongues.
He chose twi so I could hear the Word like it hasn't been taught since the first century.
(did I really just say that!!!???)
Someone give me a *dope-slap*!
Point I am trying to make is I now see God uses many groups/denominations as we individually need it. Maybe some will say I just *happened* upon these fellowships at the right time, and they could be right. I dunno. Who does for sure? What convinces me that God had a hand in it is -- He knew my heart's desire (at that time) and He is Jehovah-Jireh -- Jehovah will see, or provide.
Interesting thing (to me at any rate) is that I think the first occurrance of this is in Genesis 22:14 where Abraham is about to sacrifice Isaac. In verse 13, he sees a ram caught in a thicket by his horns.
What does God provide?? A replacement. A substitute. The ram caught in the thicket by his horns. Christ had the *crown* of thorns on His head (ram in a thicket). He's the replacement, the substitute for us and because of Him, God takes us where we need to be, when we need to be there. (IMO)
ps -- I learned this from a Messianic group on a friday night bible study, when Pastor Stan was hammering home points about the *types* of Christ in the OT. (I better shut up here -- or I'll relegate this to the doctrinal forum!) :D
Anyway -- if that includes twi for you, have at it and enjoy.
Sadly, their track record leaves a lot to be desired and I for one would be pretty hesitant to go back to a group that does a better job of imploding, rather than exploding on the world religious scene.
The last twi fellowship I was at wasn't very sweet, but by then legalism had done it's dirty work (mid 1980's). If your fellowship is a *rocking* one, enjoy it while it lasts.
The twigs I went to were (overall) invigorating and fun, but once hdqtrs got wind of it, we got the word that *fun* was out, and obedience was *in*. :(
(hope you're not *over and out* for good -- stick around!) :)
David
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bliss
Thanks Likeaeagle, sometimes using "non religious" examples can be more impacting. It is for me anyway.
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WordWolf
Many of us still believe that.
...after exposure to twi "leadership training."That doesn't tell you anything?
Because it wasn't ONLY about the money-it was about CONTROL.
The humiliation was social sanctions imposed to try to force conformity.
They didn't want your money without your loyalty.
They wanted your blind loyalty and strict obedience FIRST.
Then the money is incidental,
and they can jack up the ABS to any level LATER.
That's simple sociology.
And you KEPT coming back?It's only a question of WHEN....
The top leaders keep steering the ship for the jagged cliffs.
The local leaders can make the deck events fantastic, but can't change that,
and can't change the course-heading.
Today they are.
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Lifted Up
I was at the 1977 AC with my branch leader. He had had the class before, so he was sitting downstairs watchint it on the tube. I was sitting at the front, and during one break the camera operator asked me to sit in VPW's seat so he could get a fix, for focus I guess. My BC came running up the stairs, wondering why I seemed to be teaching the class.
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jkboehme
Ever notice how TWI has foreshadowed many elements of the 'christian patriotism' movement, some aspects of which are quite dangerous. The typical TWI member had their first expose to such extreme right wing views at the Advanced Class.
This quote is taken from the WellSpring Journal of WellSpring Retreat & Resouce Center, a facility specializing in the treatment of victims of thought reform & coercive packaged persuasion.
”…Many of the racist militias share the Anglo-Israel views found in the Christian Identity groups, along with the associated conspiracy theories. While there are variations in the latter, most conspiracy theories espoused by these groups hold that a dark cabal of national and international organizations is plotting the undermining and eventual overthrow of the United States. Among the organizations allegedly allied in this sinister compact besides the United Nations are the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg Society, the Federal Reserve Board and "international bankers," the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Illuminati, the Masons, the Communists, and above all, the Jews…”
Most if not all of these organizations are mentioned in the TWI-promoted books, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, & None Dare Call It Treason. Also, it is the same extreme right wing material that Dr. Peter Beter used to address on his weekly audiotapes, at least one of which vpw played for the 7th & 9th WCs at Emporia in 11/1978, & it was also the essence of a SNS teaching, ‘The Current Psychological Hoax,’ #942 12/03/1978.
:o
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likeaneagle
My best friend wasnt allowed to take ADV.Class unless her husband paid off 10,000 in debt. She had Cancer...
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