I never had a problem with believing that serving in twi was the same as serving God and Christ.
That's because I always believed that twi was (at one time) like "the first century church in the twentieth", teaching biblical truths, profitable fellowships and such, and believing that we as twi folks are the body of Christ...we as participants as members of that one body.
Also I never allowed the sins of the big shots to corrupt that belief, and hope it stays that way.
I believe God rescued me and brought me into His Kingdom by way of twi.
But that is past.
Right now, I am considering some lite participation with one of the offshoots... we'll see what happens.
Free Soul.... it sounds like what you are going through is quite normal.
Trying different things is great...you don`t HAVE to stick to any one thing...nor to feel bad if after trying something.....that you don`t care to continue.....you just keep dabbling around till something strikes your fancy....
Community theatre is fun.... volunteering at your local animal shelter or hospital are great avenues for meeting people and opening doors for other activities you might enjoy....maybe go back to school....weather spotters...join the reserve unit for your local police or sheriff dept.
I am on a mission to continue to improve myself whether it be physically or with an education....I relish challenging myself....overcoming the shakes and getting up on stage....(I`ll have you know I play a MEAN singing monkey/pirate :) it doesn`t matter whatever it is....just so you are learning something fresh and new and challenging....getting out meeting new people and friends. I don`t want to ever feel *stagnant* ever again.
As far as your bible...I wouldn`t feel bad about not wanting to read it...I am the same way....every time I open it...I see the verses used to manipulate us....I hear them read with the venomous tone that they used to be presented to us with. God is pretty cool though and continues to educat/love minister to me in a manner that I can accept without getting the heebie jeebies.
The greatest thing about being post twi is that you don`t have to ever feel bad again for not fitting into somebody elses mold of who or what we should like.
It is an exciting journey....enjoy yourself....we have spent decades being manipulated and mistreated ...years that we can never ever get back....they are gone, wasted irrevocably ...I am firmly resolved to live each remaining day as the exciting adventure of learning and growth that I believe that God intended our lives to be...
Cathy......who is trying to learn to live *thy grace is sufficient for me*
Secondly, indirect damage by TWI from people who are or were in & were spouting their poison. I used to wonder how it was that words that came from the mouths of God's people could make me feel so bad? Anyway, because of these things & more I prefer to be by myself. But, I keep getting the nagging notion that I need to go to church somewhere. It's a massive case of the "shoulds". My rational side says it would be nice & maybe even fulfilling, but my non-commital side runs screaming. Yeah, I know what the Bible says about being double-minded, so now I can add "unstable in all my ways" to the mix.
Professional psychological assistance is on my list of things to do when I can afford it. In the meantime I read whatever I think might help. No doubt reading the Bible would be the best thing to read, but I can't bring myself to do it. I get angry. Betrayal & anger washes over me like a shower. How can I believe anything that comes out of anyone's mouth?
Christ in you. God loves me. It sounds good, & I want to believe it. But I don't trust.
Hi Free Soul,
I can relate to much of what you shared. Those people who "were spouting their poison" and spoke "words that came from the mouths of 'God's people' could make me feel so bad" IMO were not representing the true God and father of Jesus Christ and they will be judged for harmful words spoken and the wrongs they have committed.
Matthew 12:33-37 (NIV)
33"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
You said, "I keep getting the nagging notion that I need to go to church somewhere." Again I can relate, it took me years before I'd even consider going to a church. Give it some time, don't rush, God loves us whether we attend a church or not, whether we read our Bible or not, whether we pray or not.
For me, I needed some time without church, fellowship or believer meetings. I just hung out with my family who offered unconditional love which was healing. Maybe thats what you need at this time.
When I did decide to check out church, I found a few churches were not to my liking, and a few that I now occassionally attend. Mostly I like the praise and worship part of the churches I attend. Their teachings, well, I don't always agree with, but most of the time they are edifying. But I'm not going to be religious about going, I go on my terms when I feel like it.
When you are ready, if you still feel you want to try attending a church, maybe check out some different churches and see if you like what you find, but please don't feel guilty about not going, and don't feel obligated to go, if you choose not to.
You mentioned "No doubt reading the Bible would be the best thing to read, but I can't bring myself to do it. I get angry. Betrayal & anger washes over me like a shower. " Once again I can relate.
I stopped reading the Bible for a period of time, but wanted to, except every time I read it I was reminded of TWI and what they taught, so I had a difficult time reading.
Someone suggested to me that I put aside my KJV Bible which had all my TWI notes and get another version to read. I bought an NIV Bible and enjoy the modern english. At first I primarily read the gospels and the Psalms, avoiding the Church Epistles for a while. Now I read it whereever and whenever I want.
"Christ in you. God loves me. It sounds good, & I want to believe it. But I don't trust."
I've been there too. Give it time, let yourself heal.
I used to wonder how it was that words that came from the mouths of God's people could make me feel so bad?
I sooooo relate to this!! I always heard jokes about the Baptist's "Hell Fire and Condemnation" teachings and that the Catholic religion was based on guilt, but I never felt as afraid or guilty as I did while involved with TWI. Nothing we did was good enough and nothing anyone else did was good enough for us.
If God is to be likened to our "earthly" fathers then I'd take my "earthly" father over the God that TWI taught any day of the week! He's MUCH EASIER to please. :) Thank goodness I've learned that TWI taught us wrongly about the one true God or they were teaching about the wrong god.
Anyway, because of these things & more I prefer to be by myself.
Nothing wrong with that. Really! I don't know how long you've been out, but when you were "in" you weren't really allowed to be alone. Even if you were alone physically, the "shoulds" would be running through your brain or other negative thoughts because of the TWIt influence. We were expected to spend great amounts of time with people we didn't really care for or have anything in common with as well. Your desires to be by yourself is perfectly normal and as you get more in touch with yourself again, you'll figure out what balance is right for you. Me? I like to be alone quite a bit as well and it was even moreso in the past year. I'm venturing out a little more now, but I still hibernate and screen calls to some degree.... ;)
But, I keep getting the nagging notion that I need to go to church somewhere. It's a massive case of the "shoulds". My rational side says it would be nice & maybe even fulfilling, but my non-commital side runs screaming. Yeah, I know what the Bible says about being double-minded, so now I can add "unstable in all my ways" to the mix.
I felt obligated to find another church right away and was miserable the whole time I visited churches, so I put it off. When I was ready to visit a church again, it was because I wanted to and it was on my own terms. That made it that much more enjoyable. (I DO have a funny story about my first trek out, but it's rather long, so I'll save it for another day). Now, I go when I feel like it and I still haven't volunteered my time for anything. I won't. Not till I'm ready and if someone were to pressure me or "suggest" (wink, wink) that I might "enjoy" doing something, then I'd either tell them ever so kindly why that's offensive to me or I'd just not go back.
Two of the biggest things I've learned in my therapy sessions is:
1 - to respect and enforce my personal boundaries. If someone violates or attempts to violate them then I immediately retaliate and perhaps, at times, too forecefully, but I'll get better at that. At this point in my life, I am more concerned with ME - with BELLE and protecting HER than anything else. I deserve it and need it - especially after the past ten years of having others set and violate my personal boundaries. I don't have time for people who bring me down, make me feel bad/inferior or stupid. I don't have the emotional, physical, mental energy to spare.
2 - to be patient with myself. The changes on me and my life by TWI didn't happen overnight and, like losing weight, it's not going to change overnight. There are a bunch of intertwined layers to sort out, peel off and relocate. It's going to take time and I should enjoy the journey, too. It's time to enjoy life and to check out that path I'm on. I can't do that if I'm rushing down the path. I may decide to wander off the one I'm on, but I'll miss the turn and the options if I'm hauling foot.
I hope that makes sense and that it's not too long to read. :blink:
Anyway, thanks for posting and I hope you continue to. There's a lot of wisdom here at the Cafe and I'm a much better person thanks to these folks.
We have special Thanksgiving Cookies today. Everyone take a few, please....
You folks are amazing. So many good suggestions. Your caring natures come through in your words. And Belle, the cookies look so cute! A couple of those & a hot cup of coffee will warm my heart & my tummy. Thank you all.....
I'm bringing this up again. Someone has contacted me privately who just left TWI and they are having a difficult time.
I don't know if you who were in TWI 1 can relate, but in TWI II and, I gather, TWI III too - there is so much control over every friggin detail of your life that a person can become paralyzed with fear at making the smallest, inconsequential decision. You're not only afraid of becoming a "greasespot" but you're also afraid to think for yourself....heck, most of us forgot how to think for ourselves we were under so much pressure to conform.
Please contribute anything that has helped you. :) I can only help so much and, honestly, I'm usually quoting one of y'all from here anyway. :P
I know I'm getting better every day. I'm feeling more in control of my life and my future and my mind. My mother was here visiting and said it was time to stop rebelling about having to keep my house clean enough to pass the white glove test, though. I'm working on it, but I kinda like that part of my rebellion.
When I left, I had to realize that it was okay to NOT be busy doing something. I had to slow down and take care of me and my family for a while. It was also SOO strange not having someone to tell me what to do, what to study etc. I am still adjusting! I have realized how much I had shut God's still small voice out and I am learning to listen to Him again.
Please pass on our deepest love and best wishes for your friend who finally declared independence from TWI. On behalf of Mrs. Patriot and myself, let him/her know there will be real friends outside who will love them still for who they are, not who they "are with."
Please let them know that they are not alone - and I just know that God will do some very special things for him/her to let them know He is still there, still loves them, and has supported them beyond TWI. God did many miracles for us SINCE our independence. We became totally debt free, saw one of my family get totally, and medically delivered from a major accident, and has prospered us wonderfully.
For some, leaving TWI is like a balloon deflating (in a good way). All that pressure within just slowly dissipates. The challenge is not feeling guilty or wrong for it. Unnecessary pressure and stress was the norm...yet no loving Father wants unnnessary pressure on their children on a constant basis. Once they realize that, they can begin to unwind, enjoy, and move forward, onward, upward in life with God.
Onward & upward....sounds like the Marines on Mt. Suribachi (sp) on Iwo Jima. Hey, those guys were definitely Patriotic!!!!!!!!!!
i don't know how much acceptance this will find here at GSC, but if you really want to find your "true" self, then i'd suggest you stay out of any church or group. don't read the Bible. and don't come here. take the time to put it ALL behind you. get out of the mindset completely. and give yourself the time to let the REAL real you (no, not the "Christ in you," the YOU in you!) come back to the surface.
some may have a problem with this "without a net" approach. i think people do it all the time. how are you gonna find yourself without standing on your own two feet?
my experience is that it won't take as long as you think. and you may be surprised to find how easily all the stuff you've been trying to shove into your heart and mind just kind of falls away. and there you'll be.
(if, after you've been reacquainted with yourself, you want to seriously re-examine what you believe and why, then go ahead. my advice for that phase would be "Be fearless." and ruthless. honestly, Soul, if it can't stand up to real scrutiny, who wants it?)
Not unpopular sprawled out....but perhaps a bit limiting in my view.
What works well for you personally, might necesarely always work as well for another....
I spent 5 years with no way/ex way contact ....and didn`t manage to move on ... still mantained the same thought processes, never occured to me that I could be mistaken in my perceptions and beliefs....in short stayed in my well worn rut.
I need to examine what I think, why I think, why do I view something as important or not....why I accept or believe something as truth....
Greasespot is a great place to lay all of the issues on the table and discuss it with people that are on the same journey.
I learn to think about why I feel a certain way...and be able to think logically and articulate my thoughts.
Sometimes when I get them out in print...I realise how just plain silly they are....or read someone elses pov and realise that they have a great insight into what I am wresteling with....
This place is a way to get crap out of my head and on to the table to examine the merit or discard.
Your suggestion of outside activities is vitally necessary in the growth process....pick an activity...anything to stretch you imagination and ingenuity beyond our current boundaries.........I just didn`t want to discount out of hand the value to be found here. :)
I couldn't have done it without the support of GSpot. Rascal, I couldn't have said it better myself.
Sprawled Out, I don't know how long you've been out or what you've done since leaving, but the world is not all black & white and people can't be put into little boxes or "one size fits all" recovery programs. We're all very individual and, while that's good advice for some, it would be detrimental for others.
It's kind of like the folks who come on here and tell people to "get over it" and get impatient because THEY feel that they're alright they think everyone else should have been moving at the same pace and on the same track as them.
Some of us knew who our "true self" was, we just lost touch with it while we were involved. I basically snapped back to who I was once I was free from TWI and my abusive ex. I say that, but I really think it was a slower process because my parents, Mama particularly, would send me things about "girlfriends" and remind me all the time of the fun I had with my girlfriends and the good memories we have and update me on their lives now even though I had lost touch with them. Their lives were "normal" and a part of me realized that I was never going to have that kind of "normal" life in TWI and I certainly would never have girlfriends like that while I was involved...my ex wouldn't let me out of his sight practically, so any friends really were out of the question.
Didn't mean to ramble on about me.....just remember that we're all different and we all heal and handle things in the way that seems best for us. Advice is good, but be careful to not paint it as being the end all and be all fix it system for everyone. :)
Patriot - you betcha! Those words are healing for everyone who leaves and sooooo true! Pity we couldn't see it while we were in the thick of the briar patch.
It's been four years away for us now... We've tried some churches... but some subjects are just too irritating: the trinity being at the top of the list.
Talked personally with some that have left and do fellowship in the home... don't know if that's the ONLY thing for us anymore... so small & hardly any new faces
Have picked up our children at their school friends homes, and these people have all kinds of stuff going on... card parties, sports events, trips... seemingly endless activities... and they respect God and his Word too...
In our community, God is spoken of freely & frequently. People in general are good Christians, treating others with respect and compassion, and lending a helping hand if needed. They want to please God.
This is where TWI has been so damaging for me. It IS hard work getting OUT of this hardened wall that has been built up throughout my entire thinking process.
Being a good Christian, good works, giving physical help or finances WERE ALL BAD THINGS IN TWI LOGIC.
Since recognizing this, I make a point to get out and meet the neighbors. Give things to people. If I hear someone is sick, I'll visit with a small gift for them. Sometimes I’ll call a neighbor and ask if she’d like to take a walk with me… and neighbors do that for me too!
It's not difficult anymore. The more I give & get out there, the more ridiculous TWI logic is. BUT, sometimes the 'quick' response is still there... the answer for 'everything'... It's fading as I act like a real human being...
(I do make my bed and do the dishes & laundry daily. With a family of six, skipping something there would be MORE work later... which no one here would like to do... I love organization... but have BEFORE being in TWI... I like it so much, that I offer to help others that seem overwhelmed with their own stuff... I just like it) some people get offended though...
yes, everyone's different. (where exactly did you get the impression i was saying otherwise?) and yes, it can help to talk with people who understand what you're going through. but my underlying point is don't trade one group mind for another. learn to think for yourself. draw your own conclusions. make your own decisions. THAT'S how you find the real you. otherwise, all you'll ever find is someone else's version.
let's face it. when you get out of a situation like the way, you're vulnerable as hell. open to suggestion. looking (consciously or not) for something to fill the void. so MY suggestion ("look into my eyes...") would be to resist the urge! let it fill back up, in its own time, with YOUR thoughts, YOUR ideas, YOUR aspirations, YOUR dreams.
but you're right, rascal, to do that you have to know what you think and why. and i understand why you like doing it here. but here's MY perspective, having just recently stepped in here after almost 20 years out (of "the ministry"): this place is insular and biased. i'm sorry, but it is. so trying to find your true self in the confines of this forum is going to taint you, influence you. couldn't you accomplish much the same thing--without anyone else's input or influence--by just writing your thoughts down for yourself?
I would agree with you that this place is insular and biased in some respects. But on the other hand, that's what many people need when they are first leaving twi. I'm not saying they need the rest of us to do their thinking for them, but those of us that have gone before tend to make good sounding boards for the newly-free. It's like an AA meeting... it is a safe haven to expose your crap as you figure it out. Good and bad.
And no one can accuse us of all thinking the same here at the Cafe!
Sprawled Out, I know what you're saying. For me, after leaving TWI after spending over 1/2 of my life in, even though I loved God in my heart, I pretty much didn't read the Bible, I just put it down for awhile and starting living life - I felt like I had been freed from a heavy burden and bondage.
Over time I started reading again, but to check out things I had been thinking about or musing on. I believe God works in us and leads us to what we need to learn.
So, I see everyone's point. I think what it boils down to, is do what's best for you. If that means go to church, or don't, read the Word or don't, come chat with us here, or don't - whatever you feel you need to do for yourself at that time. Those who do put things down for awhile, don't feel guilty. I believe God leads us each individually as to what is best for us to do. Over time, we see our "true" selves returning, our interests, etc.
Sometimes I feel like the title of that movie - Girl Interrupted. My life was interrupted for a long time and I have reclaimed it.
I'm in about the same time frame as sprawled out, stopping in here after being out for 20 years ... and for me practically no contact with wayfers for most of those years. The main common bond here is that most agree twi was manipulative and dishonest at its root.
But some still believe much of the doctrine, some don't believe it at all, and all sorts of variations, as far as I can tell. People here have gone all different directions. It seems almost the opposite of insular.
I guess everyone here is successful and literate enough to have net access, but other than that, I'm trying to figure what group of people is greasespot insulated from? They allow the childless beer drinking heathen in along with the saintly child rearing mothers. They even let a token catholic in, and a couple of conservatives. LOL Actually, I'm not sure there is such a thing as being "IN" here.
After being out of twi for 20 years, it is kinda nice to chat with people who have some sort of history like my 20's. Since this is just a place to chat online, it doesn't take the place of the main part of our lives. Perhaps breaking all ties with anyone that ever was involved in twi would seem a more "pure" way to go, but I think I would have enjoyed a group like this for the last 20 years, even as I was out doing my own thing. I had plenty of chances to get into some sort of splinter group or home fellowship, but it just wasn't "me". A place like greasespot would have made it even easier to not get involved with something like that. It would have been sort of a home base while I was getting out and meeting other people. Who else can relate to you at all about getting out of twi?
The only church I've tried to send people to is their local volleyball league, or volunteer group, or even a political group.
Youve been out for 20 and Ive been out for 5 after 18yrs.
Many old things still reside in me about truth and its origin in my life and that will never change. I have been loved by the best, taught by the best and plan to use the good Ive learned without the intense micromanagement..there are perameters I still find not useful to living a good life. I think Im still discovering me..
Yes! Excathedra, I totally get you. That's what it is for me - needing to develop and/or discover that true self, or real me. Like, who would I be if my life and development hadn't been derailed by first a deviant stepfather and then by cult involvement? I don't want to be a naval-gazer. I just want to know what it's like to be authentic rather than a chameleon adapting to everyone & everything around me.
rhino--as far as my calling this joint insular, i can't really explain it or point to this and that. it's just the way it FEELS to me. :o and for me, FOR ME, that's enough.
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oldiesman
Thanks for sharing Jim.
I never had a problem with believing that serving in twi was the same as serving God and Christ.
That's because I always believed that twi was (at one time) like "the first century church in the twentieth", teaching biblical truths, profitable fellowships and such, and believing that we as twi folks are the body of Christ...we as participants as members of that one body.
Also I never allowed the sins of the big shots to corrupt that belief, and hope it stays that way.
I believe God rescued me and brought me into His Kingdom by way of twi.
But that is past.
Right now, I am considering some lite participation with one of the offshoots... we'll see what happens.
:)
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rascal
Free Soul.... it sounds like what you are going through is quite normal.
Trying different things is great...you don`t HAVE to stick to any one thing...nor to feel bad if after trying something.....that you don`t care to continue.....you just keep dabbling around till something strikes your fancy....
Community theatre is fun.... volunteering at your local animal shelter or hospital are great avenues for meeting people and opening doors for other activities you might enjoy....maybe go back to school....weather spotters...join the reserve unit for your local police or sheriff dept.
I am on a mission to continue to improve myself whether it be physically or with an education....I relish challenging myself....overcoming the shakes and getting up on stage....(I`ll have you know I play a MEAN singing monkey/pirate :) it doesn`t matter whatever it is....just so you are learning something fresh and new and challenging....getting out meeting new people and friends. I don`t want to ever feel *stagnant* ever again.
As far as your bible...I wouldn`t feel bad about not wanting to read it...I am the same way....every time I open it...I see the verses used to manipulate us....I hear them read with the venomous tone that they used to be presented to us with. God is pretty cool though and continues to educat/love minister to me in a manner that I can accept without getting the heebie jeebies.
The greatest thing about being post twi is that you don`t have to ever feel bad again for not fitting into somebody elses mold of who or what we should like.
It is an exciting journey....enjoy yourself....we have spent decades being manipulated and mistreated ...years that we can never ever get back....they are gone, wasted irrevocably ...I am firmly resolved to live each remaining day as the exciting adventure of learning and growth that I believe that God intended our lives to be...
Cathy......who is trying to learn to live *thy grace is sufficient for me*
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Outin88.
Hi Free Soul,
I can relate to much of what you shared. Those people who "were spouting their poison" and spoke "words that came from the mouths of 'God's people' could make me feel so bad" IMO were not representing the true God and father of Jesus Christ and they will be judged for harmful words spoken and the wrongs they have committed.
Matthew 12:33-37 (NIV)
33"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
You said, "I keep getting the nagging notion that I need to go to church somewhere." Again I can relate, it took me years before I'd even consider going to a church. Give it some time, don't rush, God loves us whether we attend a church or not, whether we read our Bible or not, whether we pray or not.
For me, I needed some time without church, fellowship or believer meetings. I just hung out with my family who offered unconditional love which was healing. Maybe thats what you need at this time.
When I did decide to check out church, I found a few churches were not to my liking, and a few that I now occassionally attend. Mostly I like the praise and worship part of the churches I attend. Their teachings, well, I don't always agree with, but most of the time they are edifying. But I'm not going to be religious about going, I go on my terms when I feel like it.
When you are ready, if you still feel you want to try attending a church, maybe check out some different churches and see if you like what you find, but please don't feel guilty about not going, and don't feel obligated to go, if you choose not to.
You mentioned "No doubt reading the Bible would be the best thing to read, but I can't bring myself to do it. I get angry. Betrayal & anger washes over me like a shower. " Once again I can relate.
I stopped reading the Bible for a period of time, but wanted to, except every time I read it I was reminded of TWI and what they taught, so I had a difficult time reading.
Someone suggested to me that I put aside my KJV Bible which had all my TWI notes and get another version to read. I bought an NIV Bible and enjoy the modern english. At first I primarily read the gospels and the Psalms, avoiding the Church Epistles for a while. Now I read it whereever and whenever I want.
"Christ in you. God loves me. It sounds good, & I want to believe it. But I don't trust."
I've been there too. Give it time, let yourself heal.
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Belle
I sooooo relate to this!! I always heard jokes about the Baptist's "Hell Fire and Condemnation" teachings and that the Catholic religion was based on guilt, but I never felt as afraid or guilty as I did while involved with TWI. Nothing we did was good enough and nothing anyone else did was good enough for us.
If God is to be likened to our "earthly" fathers then I'd take my "earthly" father over the God that TWI taught any day of the week! He's MUCH EASIER to please. :) Thank goodness I've learned that TWI taught us wrongly about the one true God or they were teaching about the wrong god.
Nothing wrong with that. Really! I don't know how long you've been out, but when you were "in" you weren't really allowed to be alone. Even if you were alone physically, the "shoulds" would be running through your brain or other negative thoughts because of the TWIt influence. We were expected to spend great amounts of time with people we didn't really care for or have anything in common with as well. Your desires to be by yourself is perfectly normal and as you get more in touch with yourself again, you'll figure out what balance is right for you. Me? I like to be alone quite a bit as well and it was even moreso in the past year. I'm venturing out a little more now, but I still hibernate and screen calls to some degree.... ;)
I felt obligated to find another church right away and was miserable the whole time I visited churches, so I put it off. When I was ready to visit a church again, it was because I wanted to and it was on my own terms. That made it that much more enjoyable. (I DO have a funny story about my first trek out, but it's rather long, so I'll save it for another day). Now, I go when I feel like it and I still haven't volunteered my time for anything. I won't. Not till I'm ready and if someone were to pressure me or "suggest" (wink, wink) that I might "enjoy" doing something, then I'd either tell them ever so kindly why that's offensive to me or I'd just not go back.
Two of the biggest things I've learned in my therapy sessions is:
1 - to respect and enforce my personal boundaries. If someone violates or attempts to violate them then I immediately retaliate and perhaps, at times, too forecefully, but I'll get better at that. At this point in my life, I am more concerned with ME - with BELLE and protecting HER than anything else. I deserve it and need it - especially after the past ten years of having others set and violate my personal boundaries. I don't have time for people who bring me down, make me feel bad/inferior or stupid. I don't have the emotional, physical, mental energy to spare.
2 - to be patient with myself. The changes on me and my life by TWI didn't happen overnight and, like losing weight, it's not going to change overnight. There are a bunch of intertwined layers to sort out, peel off and relocate. It's going to take time and I should enjoy the journey, too. It's time to enjoy life and to check out that path I'm on. I can't do that if I'm rushing down the path. I may decide to wander off the one I'm on, but I'll miss the turn and the options if I'm hauling foot.
I hope that makes sense and that it's not too long to read. :blink:
Anyway, thanks for posting and I hope you continue to. There's a lot of wisdom here at the Cafe and I'm a much better person thanks to these folks.
We have special Thanksgiving Cookies today. Everyone take a few, please....
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Free Soul
You folks are amazing. So many good suggestions. Your caring natures come through in your words. And Belle, the cookies look so cute! A couple of those & a hot cup of coffee will warm my heart & my tummy. Thank you all.....
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Belle
I'm bringing this up again. Someone has contacted me privately who just left TWI and they are having a difficult time.
I don't know if you who were in TWI 1 can relate, but in TWI II and, I gather, TWI III too - there is so much control over every friggin detail of your life that a person can become paralyzed with fear at making the smallest, inconsequential decision. You're not only afraid of becoming a "greasespot" but you're also afraid to think for yourself....heck, most of us forgot how to think for ourselves we were under so much pressure to conform.
Please contribute anything that has helped you. :) I can only help so much and, honestly, I'm usually quoting one of y'all from here anyway. :P
I know I'm getting better every day. I'm feeling more in control of my life and my future and my mind. My mother was here visiting and said it was time to stop rebelling about having to keep my house clean enough to pass the white glove test, though.
I'm working on it, but I kinda like that part of my rebellion. 
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penguin
When I left, I had to realize that it was okay to NOT be busy doing something. I had to slow down and take care of me and my family for a while. It was also SOO strange not having someone to tell me what to do, what to study etc. I am still adjusting! I have realized how much I had shut God's still small voice out and I am learning to listen to Him again.
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Patriot
Hey Belle,
Please pass on our deepest love and best wishes for your friend who finally declared independence from TWI. On behalf of Mrs. Patriot and myself, let him/her know there will be real friends outside who will love them still for who they are, not who they "are with."
Please let them know that they are not alone - and I just know that God will do some very special things for him/her to let them know He is still there, still loves them, and has supported them beyond TWI. God did many miracles for us SINCE our independence. We became totally debt free, saw one of my family get totally, and medically delivered from a major accident, and has prospered us wonderfully.
For some, leaving TWI is like a balloon deflating (in a good way). All that pressure within just slowly dissipates. The challenge is not feeling guilty or wrong for it. Unnecessary pressure and stress was the norm...yet no loving Father wants unnnessary pressure on their children on a constant basis. Once they realize that, they can begin to unwind, enjoy, and move forward, onward, upward in life with God.
Onward & upward....sounds like the Marines on Mt. Suribachi (sp) on Iwo Jima. Hey, those guys were definitely Patriotic!!!!!!!!!!
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sprawled out
i don't know how much acceptance this will find here at GSC, but if you really want to find your "true" self, then i'd suggest you stay out of any church or group. don't read the Bible. and don't come here. take the time to put it ALL behind you. get out of the mindset completely. and give yourself the time to let the REAL real you (no, not the "Christ in you," the YOU in you!) come back to the surface.
some may have a problem with this "without a net" approach. i think people do it all the time. how are you gonna find yourself without standing on your own two feet?
my experience is that it won't take as long as you think. and you may be surprised to find how easily all the stuff you've been trying to shove into your heart and mind just kind of falls away. and there you'll be.
(if, after you've been reacquainted with yourself, you want to seriously re-examine what you believe and why, then go ahead. my advice for that phase would be "Be fearless." and ruthless. honestly, Soul, if it can't stand up to real scrutiny, who wants it?)
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rascal
Not unpopular sprawled out....but perhaps a bit limiting in my view.
What works well for you personally, might necesarely always work as well for another....
I spent 5 years with no way/ex way contact ....and didn`t manage to move on ... still mantained the same thought processes, never occured to me that I could be mistaken in my perceptions and beliefs....in short stayed in my well worn rut.
I need to examine what I think, why I think, why do I view something as important or not....why I accept or believe something as truth....
Greasespot is a great place to lay all of the issues on the table and discuss it with people that are on the same journey.
I learn to think about why I feel a certain way...and be able to think logically and articulate my thoughts.
Sometimes when I get them out in print...I realise how just plain silly they are....or read someone elses pov and realise that they have a great insight into what I am wresteling with....
This place is a way to get crap out of my head and on to the table to examine the merit or discard.
Your suggestion of outside activities is vitally necessary in the growth process....pick an activity...anything to stretch you imagination and ingenuity beyond our current boundaries.........I just didn`t want to discount out of hand the value to be found here. :)
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Belle
I couldn't have done it without the support of GSpot.
Rascal, I couldn't have said it better myself.
Sprawled Out, I don't know how long you've been out or what you've done since leaving, but the world is not all black & white and people can't be put into little boxes or "one size fits all" recovery programs. We're all very individual and, while that's good advice for some, it would be detrimental for others.
It's kind of like the folks who come on here and tell people to "get over it" and get impatient because THEY feel that they're alright they think everyone else should have been moving at the same pace and on the same track as them.
Some of us knew who our "true self" was, we just lost touch with it while we were involved. I basically snapped back to who I was once I was free from TWI and my abusive ex. I say that, but I really think it was a slower process because my parents, Mama particularly, would send me things about "girlfriends" and remind me all the time of the fun I had with my girlfriends and the good memories we have and update me on their lives now even though I had lost touch with them. Their lives were "normal" and a part of me realized that I was never going to have that kind of "normal" life in TWI and I certainly would never have girlfriends like that while I was involved...my ex wouldn't let me out of his sight practically, so any friends really were out of the question.
Didn't mean to ramble on about me.....just remember that we're all different and we all heal and handle things in the way that seems best for us. Advice is good, but be careful to not paint it as being the end all and be all fix it system for everyone. :)
Patriot - you betcha! Those words are healing for everyone who leaves and sooooo true! Pity we couldn't see it while we were in the thick of the briar patch.
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SafariVista
Very interesting reading here.
It's been four years away for us now... We've tried some churches... but some subjects are just too irritating: the trinity being at the top of the list.
Talked personally with some that have left and do fellowship in the home... don't know if that's the ONLY thing for us anymore... so small & hardly any new faces
Have picked up our children at their school friends homes, and these people have all kinds of stuff going on... card parties, sports events, trips... seemingly endless activities... and they respect God and his Word too...
In our community, God is spoken of freely & frequently. People in general are good Christians, treating others with respect and compassion, and lending a helping hand if needed. They want to please God.
This is where TWI has been so damaging for me. It IS hard work getting OUT of this hardened wall that has been built up throughout my entire thinking process.
Being a good Christian, good works, giving physical help or finances WERE ALL BAD THINGS IN TWI LOGIC.
Since recognizing this, I make a point to get out and meet the neighbors. Give things to people. If I hear someone is sick, I'll visit with a small gift for them. Sometimes I’ll call a neighbor and ask if she’d like to take a walk with me… and neighbors do that for me too!
It's not difficult anymore. The more I give & get out there, the more ridiculous TWI logic is. BUT, sometimes the 'quick' response is still there... the answer for 'everything'... It's fading as I act like a real human being...
(I do make my bed and do the dishes & laundry daily. With a family of six, skipping something there would be MORE work later... which no one here would like to do... I love organization... but have BEFORE being in TWI... I like it so much, that I offer to help others that seem overwhelmed with their own stuff... I just like it)
some people get offended though... 
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sprawled out
yes, everyone's different. (where exactly did you get the impression i was saying otherwise?) and yes, it can help to talk with people who understand what you're going through. but my underlying point is don't trade one group mind for another. learn to think for yourself. draw your own conclusions. make your own decisions. THAT'S how you find the real you. otherwise, all you'll ever find is someone else's version.
let's face it. when you get out of a situation like the way, you're vulnerable as hell. open to suggestion. looking (consciously or not) for something to fill the void. so MY suggestion ("look into my eyes...") would be to resist the urge! let it fill back up, in its own time, with YOUR thoughts, YOUR ideas, YOUR aspirations, YOUR dreams.
but you're right, rascal, to do that you have to know what you think and why. and i understand why you like doing it here. but here's MY perspective, having just recently stepped in here after almost 20 years out (of "the ministry"): this place is insular and biased. i'm sorry, but it is. so trying to find your true self in the confines of this forum is going to taint you, influence you. couldn't you accomplish much the same thing--without anyone else's input or influence--by just writing your thoughts down for yourself?
i guess it depends on what you really want.
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TheHighWay
Sprawled Out,
I would agree with you that this place is insular and biased in some respects. But on the other hand, that's what many people need when they are first leaving twi. I'm not saying they need the rest of us to do their thinking for them, but those of us that have gone before tend to make good sounding boards for the newly-free. It's like an AA meeting... it is a safe haven to expose your crap as you figure it out. Good and bad.
And no one can accuse us of all thinking the same here at the Cafe!
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Sunesis
Sprawled Out, I know what you're saying. For me, after leaving TWI after spending over 1/2 of my life in, even though I loved God in my heart, I pretty much didn't read the Bible, I just put it down for awhile and starting living life - I felt like I had been freed from a heavy burden and bondage.
Over time I started reading again, but to check out things I had been thinking about or musing on. I believe God works in us and leads us to what we need to learn.
So, I see everyone's point. I think what it boils down to, is do what's best for you. If that means go to church, or don't, read the Word or don't, come chat with us here, or don't - whatever you feel you need to do for yourself at that time. Those who do put things down for awhile, don't feel guilty. I believe God leads us each individually as to what is best for us to do. Over time, we see our "true" selves returning, our interests, etc.
Sometimes I feel like the title of that movie - Girl Interrupted. My life was interrupted for a long time and I have reclaimed it.
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rhino
I'm in about the same time frame as sprawled out, stopping in here after being out for 20 years ... and for me practically no contact with wayfers for most of those years. The main common bond here is that most agree twi was manipulative and dishonest at its root.
But some still believe much of the doctrine, some don't believe it at all, and all sorts of variations, as far as I can tell. People here have gone all different directions. It seems almost the opposite of insular.
I guess everyone here is successful and literate enough to have net access, but other than that, I'm trying to figure what group of people is greasespot insulated from? They allow the childless beer drinking heathen in along with the saintly child rearing mothers. They even let a token catholic in, and a couple of conservatives. LOL Actually, I'm not sure there is such a thing as being "IN" here.
After being out of twi for 20 years, it is kinda nice to chat with people who have some sort of history like my 20's. Since this is just a place to chat online, it doesn't take the place of the main part of our lives. Perhaps breaking all ties with anyone that ever was involved in twi would seem a more "pure" way to go, but I think I would have enjoyed a group like this for the last 20 years, even as I was out doing my own thing. I had plenty of chances to get into some sort of splinter group or home fellowship, but it just wasn't "me". A place like greasespot would have made it even easier to not get involved with something like that. It would have been sort of a home base while I was getting out and meeting other people. Who else can relate to you at all about getting out of twi?
The only church I've tried to send people to is their local volleyball league, or volunteer group, or even a political group.
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likeaneagle
Yep RHino- Its quit abstract here..
Youve been out for 20 and Ive been out for 5 after 18yrs.
Many old things still reside in me about truth and its origin in my life and that will never change. I have been loved by the best, taught by the best and plan to use the good Ive learned without the intense micromanagement..there are perameters I still find not useful to living a good life. I think Im still discovering me..
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RumRunner
Damn Rhino we've been out the same amount of time!
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excathedra
have i responded on this thread ?
how can you return to your true self when you hadn't developed that yet ?
get what i'm saying ?
you have to discover your true self.....
it can be hard
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SafariVista
There it is! Nicely put excathedra.
My personal development had been stunted by my involvement in TWI.
For 21 years I developed into something TWI thought was the BEST...
I did a good job according to their standard... but there was something more to life, and I finally realized that I had been lied to for many years.
Time again to think, test, and experience life. There is so much good stuff out there!
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Free Soul
Yes! Excathedra, I totally get you. That's what it is for me - needing to develop and/or discover that true self, or real me. Like, who would I be if my life and development hadn't been derailed by first a deviant stepfather and then by cult involvement? I don't want to be a naval-gazer. I just want to know what it's like to be authentic rather than a chameleon adapting to everyone & everything around me.
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sprawled out
rhino--as far as my calling this joint insular, i can't really explain it or point to this and that. it's just the way it FEELS to me. :o and for me, FOR ME, that's enough.
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