The Way International never released information on the cause of V. P. Wierwille's death.
Why not?
The cause of death is plainly described as
"metastatic melanoma
of the liver" and
"ocular melanoma,"
which are cancer of the liver and of the eye.
See article below for details on the nature of the disease and on why it is so important for his followers (and [ex-] followers of The Way Int.) To consider what it means.
WHY TALK ABOUT
V. P. WIERWILLE'S DEATH?
Followers of The Way International often think it is mean-spirited when critics mention founder Victor Paul Wierwille's death of liver cancer in 1985.
Even so, many of them are not aware of the facts behind Wierwille's death, and do not realize (or don't want to face) the impact that the manner of his death has on their beliefs. The Certificate of Death filed with the Ohio Department of Health states that the immediate cause of death was metastatic liver cancer which set in a month before his death. It began with eye cancer about 18 months before, which then spread to his liver.
Most public figures (such as the U. S. President, evangelist Billy Graham and the Pope) publicly announce significant illnesses which affect their work. However, Wierwille's illnesses were not publicly announced. Many followers thought there was some kind of problem, but didn't know what. Some noticed that Wierwille wore an unexplained eye patch for a time, and that he didn't look quite right in some posed pictures in The Way Magazine. Witnesses at the Rock of Ages 1983 reported that Wierwille's speech began to slur during a hymn-sing, and he had to leave the stage during a teaching because he was having trouble communicating. Although rumors suggested Wierwille had two strokes, no specifics were generally announced. Why not?
The Way has long taught "the law of believing." Because Wierwille acquired this idea from men like Albert Cliffe (who was a spiritist, not a Christian), he used a lot of jargon which cannot be found in the Bible, such as "believing equals receiving," "get your needs and wants parallel," "believing works for saint and sinner alike" and "positive" and "negative" believing. It is a purely human effort, since God is not involved (it is even practiced effectively by atheists). The person is believing that something will happen, not that God will cause something to happen.
Wierwille told the story of a young boy who was struck and killed by a car. He blamed the child's mother for the accident, saying she caused it by her negative believing. The death was not really an accident. He had to happen simply because she feared ("believed") it would.
Since The Way sees Wierwille as "the man of God," their Father in the Word, the Patriarch, and the greatest Teacher since the Apostle Paul, they believe him to be a master of believing. Yet, this Patriarch suffered strokes, eye cancer, terminal liver cancer, and finally death at only age 68 (short of the 70 years that Psalm 90 suggests as average).
How could followers accept this? Did Wierwille cause his death by negative believing? If so, it shows that Doctor is spiritually lacking and full of fear and negative believing. How could the man of God who taught them how to believe be so full of fear for so long a time?
Wierwille's followers are trapped between a rock and a hard place. They either have to admit that Wierwille was not the spiritual giant they think, or admit that the teaching on the "law of believing" is false. Either the Teacher or the teaching has to fall, and unconsciously they know that both would go together since one depends on the other.
Christopher Geer, who was Wierwille's protegee, driver and bodyguard for years, tried to deal with this inconsistency by saying that Wierwille actually caused his body to die: "There were two points when I felt that he might change his mind and decide to go on living....I am fully convinced that he believed to stop the functions of his body" (Passing of a Patriarch, pp. 67, 68). He seems to believe that Wierwille chose to commit suicide using his spiritual weapon of "believing," rather than to continue fighting the spiritual decline of the trustees.
Geer took this inconsistency seriously, though did not have the perception to see the obvious-- that Wierwille is judged by his own standard and both are found wanting.
WIERWILLE'S TEACHING ON SICKNESS
V. P. Wierwille consistently taught that people's own negative believing (fear) make and keep them sick. In Power for Abundant Living, he wrote,
"If one is afraid of a disease, he will manifest that disease because the law is that what one believes (in this case, what he believes negatively), he is going to receive....Today I have no fear within me....fear always defeats the promises of God....(p. 38, 53)
Wierwille adds that people in Nazareth were not healed by Jesus Christ because of their unbelief. Wierwille wrote in The Bible tells Me So,
"...we do not limit God, then we will not talk about worry, fear, anxiety, sickness and want. We forget those negatives for we are sons by the One who overcame.... If you doubt your recovery from sickness, you will by all means slow up and retard your own progress.... If you doubt its success, you have, by your own believing, determined its unsuccessful outcome. (P. 22, 45)
He added in God's Magnified Word,
"We may at times have diseases, but these should not linger. When we say 'I believe God's Word' and really believe it, we come out the victor.... The prosperity of your substance and health is dependent upon how much our minds are renewed to what God's Word says." (P. 44, 45)
Wierwille's Advanced PFAL class syllabus claimed,
"...man's acceptance of the Devil's lie brought sickness and disease into evidence." (P.31) The class also taught that healing is accomplished by believing and often by casting out devil spirits which cause diseases.
Based on Wierwille's own teachings quoted here, Wierwille's prolonged illness which resulted in death indicates that V. P. Wierwille:
- had cancer because he feared (negatively believed for) cancer
- defeated God's promises about healing by his own fear
- could not be healed by God because of his unbelief
- limited God and could not forget sickness
- doubted, and therefore retarded, his recovery from cancer
- determined his own continued illness and death by his own believing
- did not have health because his mind was not renewed to what God's Word says
- accepted the Devil's lie, thereby causing his own disease
In other words, V. P. Wierwille caused his own cancer, prevented his own healing, and died because of his own negative believing and lack of the renewed mind. Victor did not come out the victor because of his own fault.
WIERWILLE POSSESSED BY A DEVIL SPIRIT OF CANCER
The "trancenet.org\nowayout" web site published a letter in Feb. 1998 by a former Way staff member and Corps grad which confirms and adds to this information. Rick, of Chicago, was on staff at New Knoxville when Wierwille was ill and died. He confirmed that TWI never publicly announced any part of Wierwille's illness or cause of death in any publication or announcement in a Sunday night service. Rick adds,
"...it would be unimaginable to think that the 'man of God' was not able to believe for healing for himself. ...The other part of the answer is that Wierwille taught that cancer is a devil spirit. Cancer, according to him, is not just caused by a devil spirit, it IS a devil spirit. His logic went something like this: All life is spirit. Cancer has a life of its own. Therefore, cancer is a devil spirit, and anyone with cancer is possessed with a devil spirit. If that teaching was not familiar to the rank-and-file followers of The Way, it was certainly known to anyone who had taken the Advanced Class on PFAL. It's not hard to imagine the problems that would have been created if Wierwille or anyone else had announced that he had cancer. The idea that 'the greatest man of God since the Apostle Paul' was possessed with a devil spirit would have been devastating to say the least!"
THE FALLACY OF FAITH VERSUS BELIEF
On the surface, Wierwille's teaching on the law of believing sounds good. But a closer look shows that it does not rightly divide the Word of God. The book The Integrity and Accuracy of The Way's Word, pages 29-31, deals with several of the problems in some detail.
Their are several effects of this false teaching on believing. People become lords of their own healing, excluding God from the picture, since "believing" works as well for atheists as it does for Christians. Those who accept this teaching sooner or later are riddled with guilt when they experience illnesses that their bodies (or those of their loved ones) cannot overcome.
We also suggest that readers visit Christian book stores, many of which carry books which extensively evaluate false teachings on "believing" which are often found in "word-faith" teachers like Kenneth Hagin, Ken Copeland, and E. W. Kenyon (who was the origin of these teachings; V. P. plagiarized large sections of Kenyon's books).
Wierwille's followers can find no reasonable way out of this dilemma. They either have to admit that Wierwille was not the spiritual giant they think, or admit that the teaching on the "law of believing" is false. Either the Teacher or the teaching has to fall, and unconsciously they know that both would go together since one depends on the other.
The manner of V. P. Wierwille's death should make one thing crystal clear to his followers: neither the teacher nor his teaching on believing accurately follow Jesus Christ and the truth of God's Word.
and there in lies the delemna....Was vpw wrong in what he taught about believing and sickness or was he right...in which case ...according to HIS teachings...he succumbed to posession of a devil spirit.
It is no damned wonder the ministry hid his illness ....and told the followers that he died of a broken heart....that he turned his face to the wall and willed himself to die....if one single person had asked the right question in the last 24 hours he would have changed his mind and lived....
Well...we never KNEW that his eye removal was due to occular melanoma did we? We were told that bless his heart....he had burned his eye out from the filming pfal.....we were told that he later had it removed because it pained him so and was a distraction....melanoma was NEVER mentioned.
I do remember him shouting at us one night during a teaching ..... How hehad loved God and us so much ...blah de blah that .... * I gave my EYE ..... what are YOU willing to give*????????
Complete denial about why his eye was removed...that happened years before his death...he had a real chance to reevaluate his belief and stance on cancer and save a lot of people a lot of pain and shame who were lambasted for their shortcomings when they fell victim to this disease.
Here these poor folks not only had to deal with sickness and emminent death...they had to deal with the shame of having failed in their believing ..... the shame of succumbing to a devil spirit....some were even abandoned by their friends and family members who couldn`t be with someone who was posessed....
So much pain caused by covering this up....folks could at least comforted themselves in their final days knowing that even vp had succumbed and that there was no shame.
I do remember him shouting at us one night during a teaching ..... How hehad loved God and us so much ...blah de blah that .... * I gave my EYE ..... what are YOU willing to give*????????
One could never again mention his arrogance and assholiness and that statement would explain it all.
As Vic's body broke down, Martindale looked at him like a wounded animal that needed to be thinned from the herd. Soon after his death, the purging of Vics influence could begin...and king okie could take his rightful place as the holiest athlete to ever sit upon the throne of his own self image...
...In the meantime Wierwille was dying from cancer. A little damage control, a little spin, a little lockbox intrigue and suddenly...the myth of how Wierwille died began. No demons from the black pit got OUR fadder in da werd! He simply turned his face to the wall and saw snow on the gas pumps...oops, that's a different myth.
To this day my ex refuses to believe that vee pee died of cancer and our favorite Moneyhand couple knows this and will not tell him the truth. He sure as heck won't believe it from me, but then again, what would I know? I'm just a stupid girl.
"So his vices slowly killed him" but is not the author of death the devil? So The devil kill him, and the devil will kill us in any form he can, by any mean. But the Word stand john 10:10. VPW, LCM and all of us are just humans, but we can live whit Hope. The Hope of Jesus Christ Return.
"So his vices slowly killed him" but is not the author of death the devil? So The devil kill him, and the devil will kill us in any form he can, by any mean. But the Word stand john 10:10. VPW, LCM and all of us are just humans, but we can live whit Hope. The Hope of Jesus Christ Return.
I think you're missing the point. Blaming the devil when your habits are unhealthy and destructive is foolish. While bad things sometimes happen regardless, deliberately abusing our bodies can be avoided.
VP preached often about how those who got sick were "not believeing", and said that cancer was a devil spirit, yet he died from cancer. Ironic, wouldn't you say?
So dear old vee pee told people to quit smoking and to use that money to pay for their wc training. He would know how much money that requires.
Dear old vee pee told people how importance self-control is yet vee pee was a chain-smoking, drambuie drinking alcoholic who also exercised absolutely no self-control over his temper and sexual perversions.
Dear old vee pee told people that cancer was a devil spirit and caused because people weren't living according to the word yet vee pee himself died of cancer.
Because of his teachings and the sheer hipocracy of it, his minions covered up the cause of his death and placed the blame on those who were the least responsible.
TWI continued to teach that cancer was devil spirit possession because it was life of its own even after vee pee's death. TWI continued to teach that when bad things happened to people it was because they were not living according to the standards of the Bible as TWI taught them UNLESS said bad things were happening to those minions who were then being attacked because they were "standing in the gap" for God's people. Just depends on how much you were worth to TWI as to which reason was given for YOUR situation.
I repeat - to this day they do not admit that vee pee died of cancer!
Also Donald Wierwille Died of Cancer. And nobody has complain about it . My father who was a very discipline man, no drinking, no cigarr, no sex- because he has a prostatic operation.. died of cancer. May be I will die also of that. In the world for sure the doctors do not know what causes cancer. You can have a very self-control life and you can get it. Or have it. I am not saying tha VPW did not died of Cancer. Just that the cancer has one source. :D
I know about the lies and the cover ups since I started in The Way by 1989. My country coordinator of that time did not follow L.C. Martindale. But was my decision to follow him and respect him as The man of God of our day an time. I know about this place since it started. Since the WayDale. But I was very sad to write something, I got headache.
I studied Sociology, I am a Sociologist and for several year work doing the translations of the Discovery Channel TV programms, for it transmission to Latin America. B)
Recommended Posts
jkboehme
VICTOR PAUL
WIERWILLE'S CERTIFICATE OF DEATH
The Way International never released information on the cause of V. P. Wierwille's death.
Why not?
The cause of death is plainly described as
"metastatic melanoma
of the liver" and
"ocular melanoma,"
which are cancer of the liver and of the eye.
See article below for details on the nature of the disease and on why it is so important for his followers (and [ex-] followers of The Way Int.) To consider what it means.
WHY TALK ABOUT
V. P. WIERWILLE'S DEATH?
Followers of The Way International often think it is mean-spirited when critics mention founder Victor Paul Wierwille's death of liver cancer in 1985.
Even so, many of them are not aware of the facts behind Wierwille's death, and do not realize (or don't want to face) the impact that the manner of his death has on their beliefs. The Certificate of Death filed with the Ohio Department of Health states that the immediate cause of death was metastatic liver cancer which set in a month before his death. It began with eye cancer about 18 months before, which then spread to his liver.
Most public figures (such as the U. S. President, evangelist Billy Graham and the Pope) publicly announce significant illnesses which affect their work. However, Wierwille's illnesses were not publicly announced. Many followers thought there was some kind of problem, but didn't know what. Some noticed that Wierwille wore an unexplained eye patch for a time, and that he didn't look quite right in some posed pictures in The Way Magazine. Witnesses at the Rock of Ages 1983 reported that Wierwille's speech began to slur during a hymn-sing, and he had to leave the stage during a teaching because he was having trouble communicating. Although rumors suggested Wierwille had two strokes, no specifics were generally announced. Why not?
The Way has long taught "the law of believing." Because Wierwille acquired this idea from men like Albert Cliffe (who was a spiritist, not a Christian), he used a lot of jargon which cannot be found in the Bible, such as "believing equals receiving," "get your needs and wants parallel," "believing works for saint and sinner alike" and "positive" and "negative" believing. It is a purely human effort, since God is not involved (it is even practiced effectively by atheists). The person is believing that something will happen, not that God will cause something to happen.
Wierwille told the story of a young boy who was struck and killed by a car. He blamed the child's mother for the accident, saying she caused it by her negative believing. The death was not really an accident. He had to happen simply because she feared ("believed") it would.
Since The Way sees Wierwille as "the man of God," their Father in the Word, the Patriarch, and the greatest Teacher since the Apostle Paul, they believe him to be a master of believing. Yet, this Patriarch suffered strokes, eye cancer, terminal liver cancer, and finally death at only age 68 (short of the 70 years that Psalm 90 suggests as average).
How could followers accept this? Did Wierwille cause his death by negative believing? If so, it shows that Doctor is spiritually lacking and full of fear and negative believing. How could the man of God who taught them how to believe be so full of fear for so long a time?
Wierwille's followers are trapped between a rock and a hard place. They either have to admit that Wierwille was not the spiritual giant they think, or admit that the teaching on the "law of believing" is false. Either the Teacher or the teaching has to fall, and unconsciously they know that both would go together since one depends on the other.
Christopher Geer, who was Wierwille's protegee, driver and bodyguard for years, tried to deal with this inconsistency by saying that Wierwille actually caused his body to die: "There were two points when I felt that he might change his mind and decide to go on living....I am fully convinced that he believed to stop the functions of his body" (Passing of a Patriarch, pp. 67, 68). He seems to believe that Wierwille chose to commit suicide using his spiritual weapon of "believing," rather than to continue fighting the spiritual decline of the trustees.
Geer took this inconsistency seriously, though did not have the perception to see the obvious-- that Wierwille is judged by his own standard and both are found wanting.
WIERWILLE'S TEACHING ON SICKNESS
V. P. Wierwille consistently taught that people's own negative believing (fear) make and keep them sick. In Power for Abundant Living, he wrote,
"If one is afraid of a disease, he will manifest that disease because the law is that what one believes (in this case, what he believes negatively), he is going to receive....Today I have no fear within me....fear always defeats the promises of God....(p. 38, 53)
Wierwille adds that people in Nazareth were not healed by Jesus Christ because of their unbelief. Wierwille wrote in The Bible tells Me So,
"...we do not limit God, then we will not talk about worry, fear, anxiety, sickness and want. We forget those negatives for we are sons by the One who overcame.... If you doubt your recovery from sickness, you will by all means slow up and retard your own progress.... If you doubt its success, you have, by your own believing, determined its unsuccessful outcome. (P. 22, 45)
He added in God's Magnified Word,
"We may at times have diseases, but these should not linger. When we say 'I believe God's Word' and really believe it, we come out the victor.... The prosperity of your substance and health is dependent upon how much our minds are renewed to what God's Word says." (P. 44, 45)
Wierwille's Advanced PFAL class syllabus claimed,
"...man's acceptance of the Devil's lie brought sickness and disease into evidence." (P.31) The class also taught that healing is accomplished by believing and often by casting out devil spirits which cause diseases.
Based on Wierwille's own teachings quoted here, Wierwille's prolonged illness which resulted in death indicates that V. P. Wierwille:
- had cancer because he feared (negatively believed for) cancer
- defeated God's promises about healing by his own fear
- could not be healed by God because of his unbelief
- limited God and could not forget sickness
- doubted, and therefore retarded, his recovery from cancer
- determined his own continued illness and death by his own believing
- did not have health because his mind was not renewed to what God's Word says
- accepted the Devil's lie, thereby causing his own disease
In other words, V. P. Wierwille caused his own cancer, prevented his own healing, and died because of his own negative believing and lack of the renewed mind. Victor did not come out the victor because of his own fault.
WIERWILLE POSSESSED BY A DEVIL SPIRIT OF CANCER
The "trancenet.org\nowayout" web site published a letter in Feb. 1998 by a former Way staff member and Corps grad which confirms and adds to this information. Rick, of Chicago, was on staff at New Knoxville when Wierwille was ill and died. He confirmed that TWI never publicly announced any part of Wierwille's illness or cause of death in any publication or announcement in a Sunday night service. Rick adds,
"...it would be unimaginable to think that the 'man of God' was not able to believe for healing for himself. ...The other part of the answer is that Wierwille taught that cancer is a devil spirit. Cancer, according to him, is not just caused by a devil spirit, it IS a devil spirit. His logic went something like this: All life is spirit. Cancer has a life of its own. Therefore, cancer is a devil spirit, and anyone with cancer is possessed with a devil spirit. If that teaching was not familiar to the rank-and-file followers of The Way, it was certainly known to anyone who had taken the Advanced Class on PFAL. It's not hard to imagine the problems that would have been created if Wierwille or anyone else had announced that he had cancer. The idea that 'the greatest man of God since the Apostle Paul' was possessed with a devil spirit would have been devastating to say the least!"
THE FALLACY OF FAITH VERSUS BELIEF
On the surface, Wierwille's teaching on the law of believing sounds good. But a closer look shows that it does not rightly divide the Word of God. The book The Integrity and Accuracy of The Way's Word, pages 29-31, deals with several of the problems in some detail.
Their are several effects of this false teaching on believing. People become lords of their own healing, excluding God from the picture, since "believing" works as well for atheists as it does for Christians. Those who accept this teaching sooner or later are riddled with guilt when they experience illnesses that their bodies (or those of their loved ones) cannot overcome.
We also suggest that readers visit Christian book stores, many of which carry books which extensively evaluate false teachings on "believing" which are often found in "word-faith" teachers like Kenneth Hagin, Ken Copeland, and E. W. Kenyon (who was the origin of these teachings; V. P. plagiarized large sections of Kenyon's books).
Wierwille's followers can find no reasonable way out of this dilemma. They either have to admit that Wierwille was not the spiritual giant they think, or admit that the teaching on the "law of believing" is false. Either the Teacher or the teaching has to fall, and unconsciously they know that both would go together since one depends on the other.
The manner of V. P. Wierwille's death should make one thing crystal clear to his followers: neither the teacher nor his teaching on believing accurately follow Jesus Christ and the truth of God's Word.
Dr. John Juedes, C. 1998 http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/vp_DEATH.htm
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
and there in lies the delemna....Was vpw wrong in what he taught about believing and sickness or was he right...in which case ...according to HIS teachings...he succumbed to posession of a devil spirit.
It is no damned wonder the ministry hid his illness ....and told the followers that he died of a broken heart....that he turned his face to the wall and willed himself to die....if one single person had asked the right question in the last 24 hours he would have changed his mind and lived....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
thank you for the info
rascal was that last quote for real??? i was in then but on my way out!!
what rubbish and poppycock!!!!!!!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
It was in deed for real....I was told those things chef.
Nuts eh??
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Yes,
that's how they announced it publicly.
====
I'll add a few comments to the already-fairly-complete
picture.
One poster here posted once that they interacted
with vpw in the last 24 hours of his life,
and that he seemed to be sincere when he was
wondering something over and over.
Supposedly,
he was trying to figure out where he blew it
in his life that he wasn't able to believe
for healing.
Either he was still putting on a show,
or he honestly didn't think the lives he ruined
would have any spiritual impact.
(Probably BOTH.)
I'd also like to mention the technical reasons
for his early death.
He had cancer in his eye and cancer in his liver.
It's been claimed-by twi and by posters here-
that he got cancer in his eye from the bright
lights of pfal,
so his death was our fault because he filmed
it for us.
Now,
I'd believe that he sensitized his eyes in filming.
However,
we know what the most common carcinogens
are (we know what you usually would get
cancer from.)
Bright lights don't cause cancer-
unless you're using an ULTRAVIOLET spotlight.
vpw COULD have used those lights until he
was driven blind from their brightness,
and he STILL would not have gotten cancer
from them.
What does cause cancer?
The most common cancer-causing agent is
TOBACCO-cigars, cigarettes. If you're around
"second-hand smoke" enough, you can get
lung cancer. Sigmund Freud needed surgery
to his mouth to remove cancerous tissue
that resulted from HIS cigars.
vpw smoked cigars.
vpw smoked cigarettes.
vpw smoked cigars and cigarettes.
vpw smoked cigars and cigarettes A LOT.
To call the man a chain-smoker is to
understate the amount of smoking he did.
The eye is a fantastic organ,
but it has very sensitive tissues.
It's vulnerable to more than most
external tissue.
So, if it's continually exposed to carcinogens
in the air,
it should be no surprise it got cancer.
It also should not surprise anyone that
one eye got more cancer.
That's because exposure will not be
uniform. People exhale smoke in a
particular direction. It would not have to
say anything about the eye that caught
the cancer.
Supposedly, he got cancer in his eye,
and it spread to his liver,
and then he degenerated and died
pretty young.
This ALSO makes sense.
vpw drank alcoholic beverages.
vpw drank alcoholic beverages a LOT.
vpw was usually seen with either a
cigar/cigarette in his hand or mouth,
or a drink in his hand,
or both.
vpw would often start drinking VERY
EARLY in the day (his "coffee mug"
didn't hold "coffee", or at least,
ONLY coffee.)
He would KEEP drinking.
Drambuie seemed to be his most
common drink.
Now,
frequent, persistent drinking
damages the liver.
So, the entire time he was drinking,
he was injuring his liver,
weakening it.
So, when it was exposed to cancer,
it had NO ability to fight it off.
So, his vices of alcohol and tobacco
slowly poisoned and weakened his
body, eventually killing him.
Please note that vpw was VERY
vocal about people having
"discipline" and self-control,
and the entire time,
he was addicted to tobacco and alcohol.
(Which, of course, shows a lack
of SELF-discipline.)
So,
his vices slowly killed him,
as I see it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Well...we never KNEW that his eye removal was due to occular melanoma did we? We were told that bless his heart....he had burned his eye out from the filming pfal.....we were told that he later had it removed because it pained him so and was a distraction....melanoma was NEVER mentioned.
I do remember him shouting at us one night during a teaching ..... How hehad loved God and us so much ...blah de blah that .... * I gave my EYE ..... what are YOU willing to give*????????
Complete denial about why his eye was removed...that happened years before his death...he had a real chance to reevaluate his belief and stance on cancer and save a lot of people a lot of pain and shame who were lambasted for their shortcomings when they fell victim to this disease.
Here these poor folks not only had to deal with sickness and emminent death...they had to deal with the shame of having failed in their believing ..... the shame of succumbing to a devil spirit....some were even abandoned by their friends and family members who couldn`t be with someone who was posessed....
So much pain caused by covering this up....folks could at least comforted themselves in their final days knowing that even vp had succumbed and that there was no shame.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Shellon
One could never again mention his arrogance and assholiness and that statement would explain it all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
As Vic's body broke down, Martindale looked at him like a wounded animal that needed to be thinned from the herd. Soon after his death, the purging of Vics influence could begin...and king okie could take his rightful place as the holiest athlete to ever sit upon the throne of his own self image...
...In the meantime Wierwille was dying from cancer. A little damage control, a little spin, a little lockbox intrigue and suddenly...the myth of how Wierwille died began. No demons from the black pit got OUR fadder in da werd! He simply turned his face to the wall and saw snow on the gas pumps...oops, that's a different myth.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
To this day my ex refuses to believe that vee pee died of cancer and our favorite Moneyhand couple knows this and will not tell him the truth. He sure as heck won't believe it from me, but then again, what would I know? I'm just a stupid girl.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
That is sad bell.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
themex
"So his vices slowly killed him" but is not the author of death the devil? So The devil kill him, and the devil will kill us in any form he can, by any mean. But the Word stand john 10:10. VPW, LCM and all of us are just humans, but we can live whit Hope. The Hope of Jesus Christ Return.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
VP preached often about how those who got sick were "not believeing", and said that cancer was a devil spirit, yet he died from cancer. Ironic, wouldn't you say?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
So dear old vee pee told people to quit smoking and to use that money to pay for their wc training. He would know how much money that requires.
Dear old vee pee told people how importance self-control is yet vee pee was a chain-smoking, drambuie drinking alcoholic who also exercised absolutely no self-control over his temper and sexual perversions.
Dear old vee pee told people that cancer was a devil spirit and caused because people weren't living according to the word yet vee pee himself died of cancer.
Because of his teachings and the sheer hipocracy of it, his minions covered up the cause of his death and placed the blame on those who were the least responsible.
TWI continued to teach that cancer was devil spirit possession because it was life of its own even after vee pee's death. TWI continued to teach that when bad things happened to people it was because they were not living according to the standards of the Bible as TWI taught them UNLESS said bad things were happening to those minions who were then being attacked because they were "standing in the gap" for God's people. Just depends on how much you were worth to TWI as to which reason was given for YOUR situation.
I repeat - to this day they do not admit that vee pee died of cancer!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
themex
Also Donald Wierwille Died of Cancer. And nobody has complain about it . My father who was a very discipline man, no drinking, no cigarr, no sex- because he has a prostatic operation.. died of cancer. May be I will die also of that. In the world for sure the doctors do not know what causes cancer. You can have a very self-control life and you can get it. Or have it. I am not saying tha VPW did not died of Cancer. Just that the cancer has one source. :D
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Even AVERAGE stewardship and care for one's body means
you keep yourself from doing harmful things,
or doing ANYTHING to the degree that it affects your health.
vpw was adamant that the people who followed where he
led keep their expenses low, and refrain from expensive
vices. There were incidences where he required some
people to give up smoking to raise the money for
their corps tuition. There's thousands more incidents
that don't spring to mind, or I was never told since
they were face-to-face with people.
That alcoholism is hurtful and dangerous has been known since
before the 20th century BEGAN.
That cigars and cigarettes were harmful to health has been
known to be harmful to one's health,
and a KNOWN CARCINOGEN,
has been old news for most of the second half of the
century.
(Even asbestos wasn't known to be dangerous that
long.)
Now,
you're SUPPOSED to take care of your body.
vpw knew this well.
He wrote this into the Corps Principles:
bodily training, to make their body, the instrument of
God's Word, as healthy as possible.
This, of course, was another example of
"do as I say, not as I do",
because vpw would never do a single run
with the corps, or any OTHER exercise.
vpw knew that even LIGHT exercise was
healthy, and good for him, and doing it
would set a good example for "his kids",
the corps. However, that would require
effort and self-discipline. vpw TOLD the
corps to have self-discipline, but never
showed them self-discipline by example.
Commonsense care of your body means
you do a minimum of things, at least.
You get occasional light exercise,
avoid doing ANYTHING a lot
(except maybe exercising)
and be mindful of ANYTHING you put
into your body.
It means you don't do things that
are dangerous to your body, period.
You don't walk around in the middle
of a highway,
you don't shove your hands in fans,
and you don't intake harmful things
on a regular basis.
To continue to do something you KNOW
is harmful to you is never a good idea.
To do so every day is foolish, and
probably means the person is addicted.
Such a person could use help and
compassion to free themselves from
addiction,
but what they need most is
SELF-DISCIPLINE.
vpw complained of a lack of
self-discipline among the corps,
but he demonstrated poorer
self-control than THEY did.
Further, to DAILY drink alcohol is
EXPENSIVE.
To DAILY smoke cigarettes or cigars
is EXPENSIVE.
To spend "God's money" on vices
like alcohol or tobacco is poor
stewardship of God's money.
The man who taught that people
should send him 10% of their
money because it disciplines the
mind by believing
(from "Christians Should Be Prosperous")
took that 10% resulting from THEIR
discipline,
and spent a significant amount of it
on alcohol and tobacco because of his
LACK of discipline.
Finally,
don't be deliberately obtuse.
EVERYBODY knows that you can't
predict ALL cases of cancer with
100% accuracy.
Some people seem to get it suddenly
with no noticeable causes,
some people seem to not-get it
despite exposure to carcinogens.
We have the word "carcinogen".
A carcinogen is something that
causes cancer. Known carcinogens
are things known to cause cancer.
Asbestos is the only known cause
of "mesothelioma", a type of cancer.
Want to avoid mesothelioma?
Stay away from asbestos.
Want to avoid ALL forms of cancer?
Stay away from everything known to
CAUSE cancer.
Will this guarantee 100% that you won't
get cancer?
No, but it improves your odds considerably.
That's the same as trying to avoid getting
hit by cars by not playing around in the
street. This won't guarantee you won't
ever be hit by a car, but it eliminates
FOOLISH RISKS.
Here's something from the website of the
professional organization known as the
American Cancer Society:
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/ped_10.asp
"Tobacco and Cancer.
Smoking damages nearly every organ in the human body,
is linked to at least 10 different cancers, and accounts
for some 30% of all cancer deaths."
If you personally are not aware that smoking seriously
increases your risks of getting cancer,
then you are poorly informed for someone living
at the dawn of the 21st century.
Finally,
I'm sorry that Don W died of cancer.
I'm sorry that your father died of cancer.
I can think of little good that could possibly be said
of discussing either's death, except in discussing
that doctors need to learn the OTHER causes of
cancer as well.
The reason we discuss vpw getting cancer,
retaining cancer,
losing organs to cancer
and dying of cancer
is the utter hypocrisy in his life that this
underscores.
The man claimed that people should have
more discipline. He himself derided others
for lacking discipline -but he had LESS
discipline than THEY had-and he claimed
to teach THEM about discipline.
The man claimed that someone who got
cancer got it from the activity of a devil-
and said nothing of known substances
to which exposure is known to give
cancer. This man exposed himself
to one every day. Supposedly, he
had a fantastic connection to God,
yet-according to HIS words-
he was unable to deflect a devil's
direct attack on him which inflicted
a cancer.
According to him, Christians could
be delivered from ALL illnesses so
long as their believing was sufficient.
According to him, he himself had
fantastic believing. All of his
supposed fantastic believing could
not deliver him from his illness like
he said could be done.
His teachings caused people suffering
from illnesses to be BLAMED for
illnesses-since supposedly they could
shake them off" by believing.
vpw did NOTHING to put that to rest,
and it was the result of his doctrine.
It had to be obvious to him that his
teaching HAD to be error when it
completely failed to work for him.
Rather than correct his teaching,
however, he chose to LIE and
deceive people.
"He didn't get cancer-his eye was
damaged by bright lights and
years later, his eye was destroyed.
He didn't die of cancer-he stopped
believing to live. He died of a broken
heart because nobody wanted to
believe God."
All of that was deliberate lies covering
known doctrinal ERROR,
but covered up to maintain the
illusion that vpw was some great one.
Perhaps all the lies, coverups and
deceptions are new to you.
If so, you have a lot of catching up
to do. There's documentation all over
this messageboard, the main website,
and the links.
If you want the truth, you will look
into them-
but I warn you, you will be shocked
and offended at some of the things
you will learn.
That makes them no less truthful.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
themex
I know about the lies and the cover ups since I started in The Way by 1989. My country coordinator of that time did not follow L.C. Martindale. But was my decision to follow him and respect him as The man of God of our day an time. I know about this place since it started. Since the WayDale. But I was very sad to write something, I got headache.
I studied Sociology, I am a Sociologist and for several year work doing the translations of the Discovery Channel TV programms, for it transmission to Latin America. B)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
You know about the lies and cover up, yet you still believed Martindale to be the MOGFODAT?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
themex
Well, nobody is perfect. That does not mean that I agree with the things LCM did. Very ungodly actions. But we are just humans.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
So what makes someone a MOGFODAT?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
We are just humans, yes, but it is ridiculous to follow one who capitalizes on his humanity in order to *make mistakes* and get off scot free.
Docvic did the same thing by refusing to fess up to the truth openly.
Twi does the same thing by refusing to tell the truth also.
Habitual lying does not get excused by saying "Nobody is perfect".
And habitual liars should be marked and avoided --- not followed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
come on mex
wake up. i say this in love but
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.