Sounds tough. I do sympathize. :( No easy answer here, other than the cheap kind. Tell them how you feel, tell them you want an opportunity to get some stuff on the table, honestly, and TALK about it. Not just defend yourself against silence.
Easy, huh? I know it's not. Maybe the time won't be right. Maybe it will.
This may be why we call them "holidaze". We're fortunate at this point, everyone we're close to seems to understand that everyone has lives, and we want to see each other and enjoy it when we do. It may be short or long, but the time slips by quicker and quicker it seems and there's never enough. I hope this works out for you, I really do. It can! It will. Or it won't and you can always have a big bowl of mashed potatoes ready to lety fly!!!!!! Wet gooey mashed potatoes, the kind that stick in the nose and ears and slides down the walls when it misses!!!
You are wonderful. I too have had some "funny" experiences with Family. They used to and still do always tell us; "When are you going to come and see us?" Well, we live in Alaska, some 5,000 miles from my Family Home in the D.C. area, and about 2800 miles from my wife's family in Oklahoma. And yet, we have been down at least five times over the last fifteen years to visit. The only one who has come here has been my sweet 84 year old mother who now gets about now that my ailing father has finally passed away, and she isn't burdened with being the wonderful caregiver that she was when my Dad was ailing for so many years.
But what kills me, is my brother and his wife. We spent over six thousand dollars to fly back for a family reunion, and my brother, who lived only three hours from DC got offended because we didn't visit them down in Virginia during the first week we were there! Instead, he came up for the reunion which was one very long day, (and fun day I might add) and then headed back to the Old Dominion (Virginia) that very next day. And here we were, all the way from Alaska, and our honor was impugned because we "didn't want to visit with them", they who only had to drive a few hours to do some visiting. Yeah, we were pi$$ed about it. But you know what? That brother of mine up and died about a year ago, and now I miss him terribly. Wish I had spent more time with him as a matter of fact. But who knows of these things like "when death will strike?" Oh I miss him so... :(
And so, what to do about your situation? Just be as gracious as you can. Live your life, be forgiving and kind, and remember as Socks said, we all have lives, and we just have to do what we are able to do. And my words are that; "If you have it within you to be kind while living your own life, then just do it. You have to do what you gotta do, even if it displeases family members. There is just no way to please everybody. And if family "steps on you", then just thank God that you are not a family member that steps on the rest of the Family. You are one of the "good ones", and God His Ownself knows it. And then just live your life...
Love you Psalmie,
Jonny Lingo
P.S.
The Oklahoma side of the family has never visited us, although we have visted them a number of times. Go figure...
Dang Psalmie that sucks! Can't really add anything else to the advice here. Socks has the right idea though a bowl of gravy on the head might do wonders. If you want I could fly down and help you mess up their cars piggie. Take care of yourself
Awwww, Psalmie! I can't imagine anyone not eeking out as much time with you as totally possible. You must be the white sheep of the family. :)
I'm very, very, very lucky to have a wonderful loving family and I'm the only one who's been a twit in the whole group. They always came to me if I couldn't/wouldn't come to them.
BUT, my neighbors, who have adopted me as their grand-child, have a similar situation to yours. Here's how they handle it...Basically they go about their life and let everyone know what THEIR schedule is and if anyone wants to see them then they know when and where they'll be. They are flexible to a degree, always gracious, forever kind and fun to be around. They just know what their limits are, love to entertain and have a good time, but refuse to let anyone rain on their parade. Our families have had quite a few Thanksgiving and/or Christmas Dinners together - some at their house and others at mine. We always have a blast with whoever is able to make it.
I'm so sorry that your feelings are hurt! I really am! I guess what I'm saying is that for YOUR well being, that perhaps you should plan YOUR schedule and let it be known that you would LOVE to include them. That way you can know what to expect and just focus on having a good time with those who DO appreciate your company. I'm not sure how old you are, or how long this has gone on, but it sounds like they really aren't going to change, but you can change how it affects you and how you react to it. Hugs, Psalmie!
Psalmie, I love you girl....but can I speak from my experience...maybe put a little perspective from the other side?
After a decade of having my feelings hurt by inconsideration and down right rudeness of some of my family members.....sulking because my sisters never invited me to this or that....deliberatly left out of several group vacations....a wedding.....I have had to learn that IF I want to be a welcome part of family gatherings.....that I have to graciously accept as much or as little as my family members are willing to give....and to stop being offended and hurt over what they cannot or will not give.
They are what they are and you just love em, (or not) because like Johnny said....they might not be here tomorrow.
And though they frustrate the hell out of me.....can be viscious and down right cruel on occasion....I have absolutely NO doubt that each one would drop what they were doing in a heart beat at my side should the need arrise......
As far as your family, in this instance anyway, it does not sound like they are being deliberatly rude to me......
If they are uncomfortable with your home church (though I know that you are very proud of it) or would prefer to party and hang out together visiting with each other during their short time together at the motel....I don`t see a problem with that.....if they chose a hotel so as not to interfere with your fellowship plans.....or because it is better situated to handle large groups of people visiting.....I don`t see that as a problem either....or necessarily as something to take personally.
When I go to Orlando to visit my family....I want to see and spend time with them and visit....not go to their church or club or even a movie.....I let those that want to go do that....and I find a different family member to hang with......
Last year I only had two days....and my fathers new wife desperatly wanted me to go visit her daughter at the health spa that she worked at.....they were both very proud of her ....I knew that I would offend if I declined.....so thinking that it would only take an hour......I agreed reluctantly to accompany her. I ended up spending almost an entire damned day there with these two and their friends....while the step mom got a wax and hair cut and die job...etc ad nausium...I was FURIOUS that so many hours of my precious time that I had wanted to spend with my father and brother and sisters, their children had been squandered.....I finally had to put my foot down as they decided that they wanted to lunch/early dinner together....but needed to stop at her place first...these two would have consumed my entire day had I let them....yet it was things that they wanted to do....therefor I should want to as well/
My point is....though these things that we were doing were important to them...I had ZERO interest in spending time at a spa when my family was all having fun visiting and preparing for christmas......
I learned to speak up and say what I would rather do...FINALLY.....
Sometimes folks would just rather hang out....so I wouldn`t take it personally that they didn`t want to be at somebody elses church/fellowship/health spa....does this make any sense?
I guess that I would enjoy my fellowship if that was what I wanted to do ....or cancel for the week and go to the hotel and hang out with the family if that was what you wanted to do....
I don`t think that resenting your family for not wanting to attend fellowship or follow your game plan is going to be condusive to building family bonds....it is like when step mom wanted me to go to the spa...it was important to her....and she would have been deeply hurt had I declined.....but in going to what she deemed important....i lost precious time that I would have much rather spent enjoying my family members that are scattered all over the country that I don`t get to see for years at a time.....
I was put in a very difficult position......the pressure of the delema...do I do what will keep someones feelings from being hurt ...offend my fathers wife.........or what I drove 7 children 1000 miles to enjoy? Could your family feel this way.....
Your family is there to see you and spend time together....I do not think making them uncomfortable with confrontation because they have no interest in attending fellowship is going to inspire them to want to include you in future events.
They are doing what they prefer doing....as should you....
Getting together with family...especially a big one....requires flexibility and willingness to fit in where/ how one can....to require family to behave in a manner in which we deem acceptable will only frustrate us and drive them away.....
You either learn to enjoy them or distance yourself ...they are what they are....you deem whether they are worthy of your time or attention....but it would be frustrating as well as fruitless to try to change them into what you want/require them to be.....
I love you, I understand your anger and indignation, but if you desire to be a participant in family activities....this is the price that you will pay.
Anyway, just my opinion and a little different perspective....just take it with a grain of salt
Darn it Psalime, I wrote that long epistle before seeing what dear Bell just posted....had I seen it first....rather than the convoluted mish mash that I struggled over.....
Seriously, Rascal is right--families are a just a bunch of human beings with claim on your life. If you have more than three family members outside you , spouse and kids--someone is going to be offended about something eventually. Set your boundaries--sounds like you have held this position in your family all of your life--now you want to upset the status quo by asking that they treat you like a fellow adult.
Contrary to popular belief, families can embrace a new dynamic- try little bits at a time. Pick one family member who drives you crazy with their demands -pick the thing that drives you the most nuts and gently explain why that action needs to be adjusted. After that sets try the next family member and down the line. Just remember it took years for the current dynamic to become a well honed machine and the reeducation must be approached with patience and love--preferably at a time other than the moment the annoyance occurs
We became estranged from both Fred's and my family from the 20 twi years (Surprise!!!), and even though we have changed, and now desire their friendship and company, they kind of cauterized their lives where we were, and now it's re-attaching that missing member so to speak.
But we keep working at it. They aren't perfect either, we just grew apart, without those affection-bonding experiences.
I watched the movie Noel last nite, and was reminded that Christmas is a time when the most people are thinking of Christ and what His life on earth was and is about. Christmas is a time when the miraculous is common place and accepted.
Great point Kit....these guys have had decades of experiences, building working out their dynamics, while we were busy elsewhere at meetings in the corpes on the wow field......
Many of them no doubt felt we were giving them the proverbial finger when we missed out on their important occasions and gatherings because of our committment.
I have found that it has taken a lot of time to reinsert myself into my families lives....ad even now after 15 years it can be challenging.
But at least I am being invited.
The *reatatching* the severed limb is a great annalogy.
Psalmie... families will always be a pain in both the rear-end and the heart... for good and bad reasons.
I'm like you... a pleaser. I find great satisfaction in making sure other peoples' needs are taken care of, and that they are having a good time. That's fine, until you get teamed up with a taker. Because these people take advantage of your good and giving nature. You have to realize that what would make YOU happy and comfortable is just as important as what they want, and stick up for yourself, no matter who gets annoyed about it. [Like you did at the cabin... you go girl!!] You don't have to be obnoxious or a bully about it, just don't settle for less than what you want.
My family has several ways of taking advantage of me. I have spoken to them about it on a few different occasions and frankly, not much changed. But, it felt very good to say the words and not keep them bottled up inside. It was good for me. And I started changing the way I responded to them. Sometimes I cater to them and sometimes I don't, based on what is best for me at the time. Switch it up. Don't be predictible.
Only you can decide how much of their actions are selfish manipulations, stupid thoughtlessness, or just fear of your past. But if they want to stay at a hotel and leave on Friday, maybe you should invite yourself to breakfast that morning and see them off. If they are afraid of attending your "fellowship", maybe you should call it off that evening and ask them if they want to go see a movie or hang out and play games, or maybe you should just say, sorry you'll miss it and go without them. The bottom line is, it's YOUR CALL,
And finally, you just have to realize that they will probably never change. So, you can either give 'til it hurts for the rest of your life, or draw boundary lines and defend them. Trust me, the second choice is better. Takers don't appreciate or respect you for your sacrifices, mainly because they don't even recognize them AS sacrifices. They often don't think about you at all. They only see themselves as receiving their just due. It's very hard to change that kind of attitude. So change yours. Don't take their selfish, thoughtless behavior so personally. It isn't about you. They aren't thinking about you, so YOU have to think about you. It makes it so much easier to love your family for the flawed, ridiculous human beings they are (just like the rest of us): laugh about them, cry about them, and try to let the rest roll off your back.
Thanks everyone—sorry I didn’t get back here to answer til now—had a glitch in my puter and didn’t get it figured out til now. I am doing better today, anyway!
But I think throwing food at ‘em will make me feel even better! LOL!
Socks, I will have to make sure I’m ready for it if I do talk to them. While I love my brother dearly, he is very good at arguing and I hate confrontation—I will “lose” that verbal “battle”—and he is a master at never being the one at fault. (Even in joking, if he drops something—say a jar of pickles, it’s always someone else’s or something else’s fault—it wasn’t his fault he dropped that jar, because the jar was slippery—someone else musta not cleaned it very well). It would definitely be a matter of choosing my battles, because it has always been this way. But as Jonny points out—ya never know how long ya got em for, and I don’t want to have any regrets. I have a sad feeling that this will be the last visit from any of them for awhile, and depending on how many years that will be, some of em might not be around the next time—I kinda have to make the best of this!
Thank you, my friend, While Dove—I’ll throw a bowl of gravy in your honor!! Heehee!
Pond, I’m sorry for your hurt, also—it’s hard! And I’m really sorry to read it gets worse each year-- I hope things will get better for you with your family.
Belle, your expression “white sheep” made me smile. One of my best friends is a black woman (She doesn’t need the hyphenated distinction), and she says she’s the “white sheep” of her family! and as you, and several others pointed out, I know I need to adjust my own thinking. Give them the best they’ll accept, and not let my feelings get hurt if there are some things they don’t want to do with me that I thought would be great to do together.
They AREN’T going to change—much, I wouldn’t think, because it has been this way since I was really little. It is in my nature to do things for others—little acts of service—and most of the time I don’t feel used. But every once in awhile I do! And I feel hurt. But I am still responsible for what I do with those feelings—I CAN choose to get bitter and “never see ‘em again!” But I wouldn’t really be able to say flippantly, “It’s their loss”, cuz it would be mine, too! These are really nice people! (despite what I’m bishing about right now! LOL!)
I do have other folks that I am really better matched with—more on an “Equal footing” with, and they are who I spend most of my time with. And Rascal—you have a very valid point—while I thought having them go with me to our Bible study would be something they would enjoy (They talk the talk a whole lot!), I was wrong to assume that is what they would want to do here. I DID want my friends to meet my family and my family to meet my friends. But you are right that I can’t take it personally—it is their choice. (Although when I would visit them, it was never presented to me as a choice to go to their church, but an insult if I wouldn’t go with them—so I sorta expected the same! It IS a fine line—it was still my choice to go with them, as it is their choice to go with me—thanks for pointing that out)
(What’s funny—and annoying, too, is that this middle of the week Bible study wasn’t a regularly scheduled meeting—we usually meet on Sat nights. This was scheduled to accomodate the family coming in from MD—they said they wanted to meet frequently while they were here and that was what I passed on to my family in the planning. Now all of the mid-week meetings are cancelled! :o But my family’s plans are set! And skipping out on the meeting wasn’t something I thought of cuz I figured they’d just go with me. All that to say, I hear ya Cathy—and I know it’s a fine line balance—and attending a fellowship doesn’t have to be a big deal-nor does my doing what they expect of me when I visit them ;) )
Wonton Soup—I’d love to see the piggys! And as you said,
“What do you want to happen with your family?
I'm asking this knowing it is a complicated question with conflicting thoughts and feelings.”
You are so right! A nice simple statement is to say—I want us all to get along! But that is not such a simple thing to do, knowing we have all gone separate ways as adults—it’s really complicated!
Kit—that is somewhat true with me and my family—and having been in a cult once and now not being in a church they would approve of, doesn’t help them to trust my judgement as sound—in their opinions.
The Highway--boy did you hit the nail on the head! And I have spoken to my family at times, too—they actually see that I often get the short end of the stick—(Most recently the camping events) we’ve discussed it—and talked about ways to resolve it even! I’ve gotten a chance to say how I felt because of it, but it always seems the next year, that which I’d asked for—even paid for in advance, gets changed to accommodate someone “more important”. Establishing boundaries is the best way, (Thanks, Mo, too!)I know, but if they won’t budge, I have a decision to make. And in the same way, my expecting them to be willing to do all the things I planned for them when they come to see me, is possibly seen as boundry crossing to them!
Exie—I’d love to do that—and may still. (But I’m also quite sure they will not see it as the same thing)
Thank you all-- I hope I didn't miss any of you--ya helped a lot!
I think it's miraculous that we still have families that we can work with / complain about, whatever. (Just catching up on the brother/sister flareups we missed.)
Hoping and praying for a breakthrough, for all of us that need one or two.
All you have to point out is "isn't it great Mom and Dad kept having more kids till they got one they really liked, and then they could stop."
Wins every argument. Or try this-if someone starts to say-
"Oh Psalmie, you're always so sensitive, there's no - "
You interrupt and say:
"I just noticed - I'm so glad we got together to talk, as I just realized my butt's going to sag like yours as I age, if I don't get more exercise now...yes....now what were you saying?"
One way to look at it is that if they aren't coming back, make a last impression.
This thread has really been helpful for me. I thought I was the only one suffering through this kind of family "stuff". It doesn't have anything to do necessarily with the holidays, I can't seem to "integrate" back with my family no matter what I do or try or say.
I am the youngest of 7 born in a ten year span. When I was around 10 or 11, all my older brothers and sisters were going off to the service (5 of them) and it was just me and my (one year older) brother at home.
To make a long story short, my father passed away in March of 1993. My oldest sister "decided" that mom should go live with another brother of ours in Florida. She sold everything within days of his death and shuffled Mom out of her home. I ASKED TO TAKE HER. After five years, the brother in Florida's wife decided she didn't want Mom anymore, so they shipped her to another brother in Ohio. I ASKED TO TAKE HER. After five more years that brother's wife decided she didn't want her and they called me to take her for awhile so they could work on their marriage. At that point I decided with her not to send her back but just to have her come live with me permanently. She was now 10 years older and in less than perfect health.
During this time she began to develop Alzheimers and could not be left alone. I could no longer work and only my husband (newly married I should add) was the one working and taking care of us financially) and when I asked for some financial help from the other 6 children, you thought I had asked them for a kidney or something. Very vicious attacks about how we were not spending our money properly and we should give up this or that and on and on. Most of this from my older sister (she seems to hate me). Anyways to sum it up, we had an email war between all of us and nothing changed. Mom passed away, they all came and for one moment we were all together as a family.
Recently I received an email from one of my brothers saying how we are older now and should all just get along. That he had a good relationship with the others. He doesn't judge me he said because God forbid he hadn't done everything right in his life. I think I blew it when I emailed him back, but I told him in order for us to have a true brother/sister relationship he could not continue to believe the things my sister and other brothers continue to spew about me. None of them really knew who I was or had taken the time to get to know who I was and their preconceived judgement of me not being capable of making adult decisions really hurt me. Anyways, haven't heard back, which hurts my heart, but at the same token I stood up for myself and I really feel good about me for that.
Anyways, it seems like I can't let go of the hurt over all this family stuff. It eats at me and I know I just have to let it go.....how do I do that?
I have a sister that is the funny, pretty, smart, one...she seems to be a driving force in our family dynamics....for YEARS she and my other sister took vacations together, went out together, etc....I tried not to be hurt every time she would call me and say...*Hey Cath...what are you doing friday*? I would be so tickled to finally be invited, I would say...oh nothing....and she`d say * GREAT can you watch my child while Sharon (my other sis) n I go to a movie*
They lunched together vacationed together went to movies...but I was only asked to baby sit.
My mom lived in town and a lot of times I was the only one not invited to activities between the three of them
We all had german shepherd puppies from the same litter....every year on the dogs birthday the sisters and mom would plan an outing to the river to celebrate...never inviting me or my pup.
When one sis got married...I was asked not to come up because with my family ..it would be too many people....
The final straw came when I found out that my sisters decided to take a plane to fla to visit our Dad with their kids...go to disney etc.
I found out that they not only didn`t invite me to go along...instead...they took our mutual friend and even GAVE her the plane ticket :(
I almost severed relations at that point...I was so crushed....but I decided to say nothing....firmly resolving to develope myself into a person that they would WANT to have along...I mean there has to be some reason why they consistantly don`t want me along right????
(I found out years later it was mostly just one sister after a while the second sister got wise and quit letting her)
I finally figured out that there was a price I was going to have to pay for the decade that I had cut myself off from them while I was involved with twi....It was going to take time to reform those bonds that the rest of my family had built over the time I was gone
I have done everything within my power to be pleasant and amenable even when the same sister insists on embarassing and shaming me at every gathering over something i did as a child....
What I have found is...I don`t think that the one sister will ever have any use for me....I kid you not ...the ONLY time she calls me on the phone is to see if she can leave her son.....where as the bond with my other sister and brother have strengthened and has become a rich source of joy. I do not think that this would have happened if I had sulked and brooded over the bygone slights and insults.
It has taken many years of attempting to be gracious and biting my tongue....but it has been well worth it to me....it also gets easier as time goes by....
The one thing I know is that as MUCH as these people can hurt irritate and annoy me..I know also that they love me and I them ......and would (and have) dropped everything and be at my side at a moments notice....should the need arrise...and HAD I allowed the pain that one sybling caused ostracise me from family activities...I would have missed much joy with my other family members
I am now glad that I did not write them off ....the benefits of having a family, warts and all far outweigh the pit falls....and things do change as we spend time together.
As far as your question...yeah, it hurts.....but I still do my best to be gracious and amenable, folks usually get tired of being boogers after a while...lol ...
Sheesh! I guess this stuff happens a whole lot more than I thought! ! :blink:
Socks--Too funny! LOL!!! Actually I am the youngest female in my family-- my brother (the one who's visiting) is 5 yrs younger, but I have always known he was my Mom's favorite. (She'd deny she has any favorites, but the actions--ever so subtle--prove differently. Weird as this may sound, I still have no doubt she loves me though--probably as much as she does my brother!)
Oh Wascal! You are so right!
The one thing I know is that as MUCH as these people can hurt irritate and annoy me..I know also that they love me and I them ......and would (and have) dropped everything and be at my side at a moments notice....should the need arrise...and HAD I allowed the pain that one sybling caused ostracise me from family activities...I would have missed much joy with my other family members
But it hurts ME even to read what your siblings and OutOfDaFog's have done to you!
LET ME AT 'EM!!! (Psalmie throws gooey mixture of chocolate pie, spaghetti sauce and mashed taters on both "mean big sister's" heads!!!! :P )
OdaFog--I wish I had answers for you--parting company with them would help you have less of the rejection, giving the hurt a chance to heal, but it brings it's own set of hurts--missing them! Missing out on all the good things that happen. (I hope there are some!) I think the biggest thing is the boundaries--which I am still having to learn.
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socks
Sounds tough. I do sympathize. :( No easy answer here, other than the cheap kind. Tell them how you feel, tell them you want an opportunity to get some stuff on the table, honestly, and TALK about it. Not just defend yourself against silence.
Easy, huh? I know it's not. Maybe the time won't be right. Maybe it will.
This may be why we call them "holidaze".
We're fortunate at this point, everyone we're close to seems to understand that everyone has lives, and we want to see each other and enjoy it when we do. It may be short or long, but the time slips by quicker and quicker it seems and there's never enough. I hope this works out for you, I really do. It can! It will. 
Or it won't and you can always have a big bowl of mashed potatoes ready to lety fly!!!!!! Wet gooey mashed potatoes, the kind that stick in the nose and ears and slides down the walls when it misses!!! 
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J0nny Ling0
Psalmie.
You are wonderful. I too have had some "funny" experiences with Family. They used to and still do always tell us; "When are you going to come and see us?" Well, we live in Alaska, some 5,000 miles from my Family Home in the D.C. area, and about 2800 miles from my wife's family in Oklahoma. And yet, we have been down at least five times over the last fifteen years to visit. The only one who has come here has been my sweet 84 year old mother who now gets about now that my ailing father has finally passed away, and she isn't burdened with being the wonderful caregiver that she was when my Dad was ailing for so many years.
But what kills me, is my brother and his wife. We spent over six thousand dollars to fly back for a family reunion, and my brother, who lived only three hours from DC got offended because we didn't visit them down in Virginia during the first week we were there! Instead, he came up for the reunion which was one very long day, (and fun day I might add) and then headed back to the Old Dominion (Virginia) that very next day. And here we were, all the way from Alaska, and our honor was impugned because we "didn't want to visit with them", they who only had to drive a few hours to do some visiting. Yeah, we were pi$$ed about it. But you know what? That brother of mine up and died about a year ago, and now I miss him terribly. Wish I had spent more time with him as a matter of fact. But who knows of these things like "when death will strike?" Oh I miss him so... :(
And so, what to do about your situation? Just be as gracious as you can. Live your life, be forgiving and kind, and remember as Socks said, we all have lives, and we just have to do what we are able to do. And my words are that; "If you have it within you to be kind while living your own life, then just do it. You have to do what you gotta do, even if it displeases family members. There is just no way to please everybody. And if family "steps on you", then just thank God that you are not a family member that steps on the rest of the Family. You are one of the "good ones", and God His Ownself knows it. And then just live your life...
Love you Psalmie,
Jonny Lingo
P.S.
The Oklahoma side of the family has never visited us, although we have visted them a number of times. Go figure...
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WhiteDove
Dang Psalmie that sucks! Can't really add anything else to the advice here. Socks has the right idea though a bowl of gravy on the head might do wonders. If you want I could fly down and help you mess up their cars piggie. Take care of yourself
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templelady
Give me an M with an A then N-I-P give me a U L and an A and then T-I-O-N
Thats M-A-N-I-P-U-L-A-T-I-O-N !!
What are families FOR???
G-U-I-L-T Yeah GUILT!!
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pond
yeah I know.
I have a dictaor in my family.
She decides for everyone and if somone disagree's or wants a different plan she plays a victim.
One year she cursed how she has to do all the shopping and cooking and everything poor victim.
I was so happy and said we should do it at my house!
save her frail bitch.
guess what it was at her house but she wanted everyone to bring a dish. calls up everyone and makes plans and then tells YOU how it will be.
and I played and said um no cause you decide what where how so have at it.
amI mean? oh families .
no words can describe.
just why. and yes I still cry and I still get hurt and it seems to just get worse every year.
and we all live close by.
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Belle
Awwww, Psalmie! I can't imagine anyone not eeking out as much time with you as totally possible. You must be the white sheep of the family. :)
I'm very, very, very lucky to have a wonderful loving family and I'm the only one who's been a twit in the whole group.
They always came to me if I couldn't/wouldn't come to them.
BUT, my neighbors, who have adopted me as their grand-child, have a similar situation to yours. Here's how they handle it...Basically they go about their life and let everyone know what THEIR schedule is and if anyone wants to see them then they know when and where they'll be. They are flexible to a degree, always gracious, forever kind and fun to be around. They just know what their limits are, love to entertain and have a good time, but refuse to let anyone rain on their parade. Our families have had quite a few Thanksgiving and/or Christmas Dinners together - some at their house and others at mine. We always have a blast with whoever is able to make it.
I'm so sorry that your feelings are hurt! I really am! I guess what I'm saying is that for YOUR well being, that perhaps you should plan YOUR schedule and let it be known that you would LOVE to include them. That way you can know what to expect and just focus on having a good time with those who DO appreciate your company. I'm not sure how old you are, or how long this has gone on, but it sounds like they really aren't going to change, but you can change how it affects you and how you react to it. Hugs, Psalmie!
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rascal
Psalmie, I love you girl....but can I speak from my experience...maybe put a little perspective from the other side?
After a decade of having my feelings hurt by inconsideration and down right rudeness of some of my family members.....sulking because my sisters never invited me to this or that....deliberatly left out of several group vacations....a wedding.....I have had to learn that IF I want to be a welcome part of family gatherings.....that I have to graciously accept as much or as little as my family members are willing to give....and to stop being offended and hurt over what they cannot or will not give.
They are what they are and you just love em, (or not) because like Johnny said....they might not be here tomorrow.
And though they frustrate the hell out of me.....can be viscious and down right cruel on occasion....I have absolutely NO doubt that each one would drop what they were doing in a heart beat at my side should the need arrise......
As far as your family, in this instance anyway, it does not sound like they are being deliberatly rude to me......
If they are uncomfortable with your home church (though I know that you are very proud of it) or would prefer to party and hang out together visiting with each other during their short time together at the motel....I don`t see a problem with that.....if they chose a hotel so as not to interfere with your fellowship plans.....or because it is better situated to handle large groups of people visiting.....I don`t see that as a problem either....or necessarily as something to take personally.
When I go to Orlando to visit my family....I want to see and spend time with them and visit....not go to their church or club or even a movie.....I let those that want to go do that....and I find a different family member to hang with......
Last year I only had two days....and my fathers new wife desperatly wanted me to go visit her daughter at the health spa that she worked at.....they were both very proud of her ....I knew that I would offend if I declined.....so thinking that it would only take an hour......I agreed reluctantly to accompany her. I ended up spending almost an entire damned day there with these two and their friends....while the step mom got a wax and hair cut and die job...etc ad nausium...I was FURIOUS that so many hours of my precious time that I had wanted to spend with my father and brother and sisters, their children had been squandered.....I finally had to put my foot down as they decided that they wanted to lunch/early dinner together....but needed to stop at her place first...these two would have consumed my entire day had I let them....yet it was things that they wanted to do....therefor I should want to as well/
My point is....though these things that we were doing were important to them...I had ZERO interest in spending time at a spa when my family was all having fun visiting and preparing for christmas......
I learned to speak up and say what I would rather do...FINALLY.....
Sometimes folks would just rather hang out....so I wouldn`t take it personally that they didn`t want to be at somebody elses church/fellowship/health spa....does this make any sense?
I guess that I would enjoy my fellowship if that was what I wanted to do ....or cancel for the week and go to the hotel and hang out with the family if that was what you wanted to do....
I don`t think that resenting your family for not wanting to attend fellowship or follow your game plan is going to be condusive to building family bonds....it is like when step mom wanted me to go to the spa...it was important to her....and she would have been deeply hurt had I declined.....but in going to what she deemed important....i lost precious time that I would have much rather spent enjoying my family members that are scattered all over the country that I don`t get to see for years at a time.....
I was put in a very difficult position......the pressure of the delema...do I do what will keep someones feelings from being hurt ...offend my fathers wife.........or what I drove 7 children 1000 miles to enjoy? Could your family feel this way.....
Your family is there to see you and spend time together....I do not think making them uncomfortable with confrontation because they have no interest in attending fellowship is going to inspire them to want to include you in future events.
They are doing what they prefer doing....as should you....
Getting together with family...especially a big one....requires flexibility and willingness to fit in where/ how one can....to require family to behave in a manner in which we deem acceptable will only frustrate us and drive them away.....
You either learn to enjoy them or distance yourself ...they are what they are....you deem whether they are worthy of your time or attention....but it would be frustrating as well as fruitless to try to change them into what you want/require them to be.....
I love you, I understand your anger and indignation, but if you desire to be a participant in family activities....this is the price that you will pay.
Anyway, just my opinion and a little different perspective....just take it with a grain of salt
Cathy
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Darn it Psalime, I wrote that long epistle before seeing what dear Bell just posted....had I seen it first....rather than the convoluted mish mash that I struggled over.....
I would have said *oh YEAH...what SHE said* !!!
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templelady
Seriously, Rascal is right--families are a just a bunch of human beings with claim on your life. If you have more than three family members outside you , spouse and kids--someone is going to be offended about something eventually. Set your boundaries--sounds like you have held this position in your family all of your life--now you want to upset the status quo by asking that they treat you like a fellow adult.
Contrary to popular belief, families can embrace a new dynamic- try little bits at a time. Pick one family member who drives you crazy with their demands -pick the thing that drives you the most nuts and gently explain why that action needs to be adjusted. After that sets try the next family member and down the line. Just remember it took years for the current dynamic to become a well honed machine and the reeducation must be approached with patience and love--preferably at a time other than the moment the annoyance occurs
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Wonton Soup
Psalmie I found a few flying piggy animated gifs the other day, I thought aboutcha n downloaded a few :)
What do you want to happen with your family?
I'm asking this knowing it is a complicated question with conflicting thoughts and feelings.
Group relationships are interesting and take time to change
Decide what your overriding goal is and pursue that
it takes time and (sometimes) many challenges (and concessions) to change group think
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Wonton Soup
Psalmie Good luck :)
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Kit Sober
A vote for spaghetti fight.
We became estranged from both Fred's and my family from the 20 twi years (Surprise!!!), and even though we have changed, and now desire their friendship and company, they kind of cauterized their lives where we were, and now it's re-attaching that missing member so to speak.
But we keep working at it. They aren't perfect either, we just grew apart, without those affection-bonding experiences.
I watched the movie Noel last nite, and was reminded that Christmas is a time when the most people are thinking of Christ and what His life on earth was and is about. Christmas is a time when the miraculous is common place and accepted.
Hoping for miracles for you in all regard.
Hopefully,
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rascal
Great point Kit....these guys have had decades of experiences, building working out their dynamics, while we were busy elsewhere at meetings in the corpes on the wow field......
Many of them no doubt felt we were giving them the proverbial finger when we missed out on their important occasions and gatherings because of our committment.
I have found that it has taken a lot of time to reinsert myself into my families lives....ad even now after 15 years it can be challenging.
But at least I am being invited.
The *reatatching* the severed limb is a great annalogy.
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TheHighWay
Psalmie... families will always be a pain in both the rear-end and the heart... for good and bad reasons.
I'm like you... a pleaser. I find great satisfaction in making sure other peoples' needs are taken care of, and that they are having a good time. That's fine, until you get teamed up with a taker. Because these people take advantage of your good and giving nature. You have to realize that what would make YOU happy and comfortable is just as important as what they want, and stick up for yourself, no matter who gets annoyed about it. [Like you did at the cabin... you go girl!!] You don't have to be obnoxious or a bully about it, just don't settle for less than what you want.
My family has several ways of taking advantage of me. I have spoken to them about it on a few different occasions and frankly, not much changed. But, it felt very good to say the words and not keep them bottled up inside. It was good for me. And I started changing the way I responded to them. Sometimes I cater to them and sometimes I don't, based on what is best for me at the time. Switch it up. Don't be predictible.
Only you can decide how much of their actions are selfish manipulations, stupid thoughtlessness, or just fear of your past. But if they want to stay at a hotel and leave on Friday, maybe you should invite yourself to breakfast that morning and see them off. If they are afraid of attending your "fellowship", maybe you should call it off that evening and ask them if they want to go see a movie or hang out and play games, or maybe you should just say, sorry you'll miss it and go without them. The bottom line is, it's YOUR CALL,
And finally, you just have to realize that they will probably never change. So, you can either give 'til it hurts for the rest of your life, or draw boundary lines and defend them. Trust me, the second choice is better. Takers don't appreciate or respect you for your sacrifices, mainly because they don't even recognize them AS sacrifices. They often don't think about you at all. They only see themselves as receiving their just due. It's very hard to change that kind of attitude. So change yours. Don't take their selfish, thoughtless behavior so personally. It isn't about you. They aren't thinking about you, so YOU have to think about you. It makes it so much easier to love your family for the flawed, ridiculous human beings they are (just like the rest of us): laugh about them, cry about them, and try to let the rest roll off your back.
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excathedra
and don't go to their church with them ;)
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Psalm 71 one
Pre-script: WARNING! long post ahead! :P
Thanks everyone—sorry I didn’t get back here to answer til now—had a glitch in my puter and didn’t get it figured out til now. I am doing better today, anyway!
But I think throwing food at ‘em will make me feel even better! LOL!
Socks, I will have to make sure I’m ready for it if I do talk to them. While I love my brother dearly, he is very good at arguing and I hate confrontation—I will “lose” that verbal “battle”—and he is a master at never being the one at fault. (Even in joking, if he drops something—say a jar of pickles, it’s always someone else’s or something else’s fault—it wasn’t his fault he dropped that jar, because the jar was slippery—someone else musta not cleaned it very well). It would definitely be a matter of choosing my battles, because it has always been this way. But as Jonny points out—ya never know how long ya got em for, and I don’t want to have any regrets. I have a sad feeling that this will be the last visit from any of them for awhile, and depending on how many years that will be, some of em might not be around the next time—I kinda have to make the best of this!
Thank you, my friend, While Dove—I’ll throw a bowl of gravy in your honor!! Heehee!
Pond, I’m sorry for your hurt, also—it’s hard! And I’m really sorry to read it gets worse each year-- I hope things will get better for you with your family.
Belle, your expression “white sheep” made me smile. One of my best friends is a black woman (She doesn’t need the hyphenated distinction), and she says she’s the “white sheep” of her family!
and as you, and several others pointed out, I know I need to adjust my own thinking. Give them the best they’ll accept, and not let my feelings get hurt if there are some things they don’t want to do with me that I thought would be great to do together.
They AREN’T going to change—much, I wouldn’t think, because it has been this way since I was really little. It is in my nature to do things for others—little acts of service—and most of the time I don’t feel used. But every once in awhile I do! And I feel hurt. But I am still responsible for what I do with those feelings—I CAN choose to get bitter and “never see ‘em again!” But I wouldn’t really be able to say flippantly, “It’s their loss”, cuz it would be mine, too! These are really nice people! (despite what I’m bishing about right now! LOL!)
I do have other folks that I am really better matched with—more on an “Equal footing” with, and they are who I spend most of my time with. And Rascal—you have a very valid point—while I thought having them go with me to our Bible study would be something they would enjoy (They talk the talk a whole lot!), I was wrong to assume that is what they would want to do here. I DID want my friends to meet my family and my family to meet my friends. But you are right that I can’t take it personally—it is their choice. (Although when I would visit them, it was never presented to me as a choice to go to their church, but an insult if I wouldn’t go with them—so I sorta expected the same! It IS a fine line—it was still my choice to go with them, as it is their choice to go with me—thanks for pointing that out)
(What’s funny—and annoying, too, is that this middle of the week Bible study wasn’t a regularly scheduled meeting—we usually meet on Sat nights. This was scheduled to accomodate the family coming in from MD—they said they wanted to meet frequently while they were here and that was what I passed on to my family in the planning. Now all of the mid-week meetings are cancelled! :o
But my family’s plans are set! And skipping out on the meeting wasn’t something I thought of cuz I figured they’d just go with me. All that to say, I hear ya Cathy—and I know it’s a fine line balance—and attending a fellowship doesn’t have to be a big deal-nor does my doing what they expect of me when I visit them ;) )
Wonton Soup—I’d love to see the piggys! And as you said,
“What do you want to happen with your family?
I'm asking this knowing it is a complicated question with conflicting thoughts and feelings.”
You are so right! A nice simple statement is to say—I want us all to get along! But that is not such a simple thing to do, knowing we have all gone separate ways as adults—it’s really complicated!
Kit—that is somewhat true with me and my family—and having been in a cult once and now not being in a church they would approve of, doesn’t help them to trust my judgement as sound—in their opinions.
The Highway--boy did you hit the nail on the head! And I have spoken to my family at times, too—they actually see that I often get the short end of the stick—(Most recently the camping events) we’ve discussed it—and talked about ways to resolve it even! I’ve gotten a chance to say how I felt because of it, but it always seems the next year, that which I’d asked for—even paid for in advance, gets changed to accommodate someone “more important”. Establishing boundaries is the best way, (Thanks, Mo, too!)I know, but if they won’t budge, I have a decision to make. And in the same way, my expecting them to be willing to do all the things I planned for them when they come to see me, is possibly seen as boundry crossing to them!
Exie—I’d love to do that—and may still. (But I’m also quite sure they will not see it as the same thing)
Thank you all-- I hope I didn't miss any of you--ya helped a lot!
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Kit Sober
I think it's miraculous that we still have families that we can work with / complain about, whatever. (Just catching up on the brother/sister flareups we missed.)
Hoping and praying for a breakthrough, for all of us that need one or two.
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socks
You're the youngest, right P-ie?
All you have to point out is "isn't it great Mom and Dad kept having more kids till they got one they really liked, and then they could stop."
Wins every argument. Or try this-if someone starts to say-
"Oh Psalmie, you're always so sensitive, there's no - "
You interrupt and say:
"I just noticed - I'm so glad we got together to talk, as I just realized my butt's going to sag like yours as I age, if I don't get more exercise now...yes....now what were you saying?"
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outofdafog
This thread has really been helpful for me. I thought I was the only one suffering through this kind of family "stuff". It doesn't have anything to do necessarily with the holidays, I can't seem to "integrate" back with my family no matter what I do or try or say.
I am the youngest of 7 born in a ten year span. When I was around 10 or 11, all my older brothers and sisters were going off to the service (5 of them) and it was just me and my (one year older) brother at home.
To make a long story short, my father passed away in March of 1993. My oldest sister "decided" that mom should go live with another brother of ours in Florida. She sold everything within days of his death and shuffled Mom out of her home. I ASKED TO TAKE HER. After five years, the brother in Florida's wife decided she didn't want Mom anymore, so they shipped her to another brother in Ohio. I ASKED TO TAKE HER. After five more years that brother's wife decided she didn't want her and they called me to take her for awhile so they could work on their marriage. At that point I decided with her not to send her back but just to have her come live with me permanently. She was now 10 years older and in less than perfect health.
During this time she began to develop Alzheimers and could not be left alone. I could no longer work and only my husband (newly married I should add) was the one working and taking care of us financially) and when I asked for some financial help from the other 6 children, you thought I had asked them for a kidney or something. Very vicious attacks about how we were not spending our money properly and we should give up this or that and on and on. Most of this from my older sister (she seems to hate me). Anyways to sum it up, we had an email war between all of us and nothing changed. Mom passed away, they all came and for one moment we were all together as a family.
Recently I received an email from one of my brothers saying how we are older now and should all just get along. That he had a good relationship with the others. He doesn't judge me he said because God forbid he hadn't done everything right in his life. I think I blew it when I emailed him back, but I told him in order for us to have a true brother/sister relationship he could not continue to believe the things my sister and other brothers continue to spew about me. None of them really knew who I was or had taken the time to get to know who I was and their preconceived judgement of me not being capable of making adult decisions really hurt me. Anyways, haven't heard back, which hurts my heart, but at the same token I stood up for myself and I really feel good about me for that.
Anyways, it seems like I can't let go of the hurt over all this family stuff. It eats at me and I know I just have to let it go.....how do I do that?
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rascal
I am with you out of the fog.....
I have a sister that is the funny, pretty, smart, one...she seems to be a driving force in our family dynamics....for YEARS she and my other sister took vacations together, went out together, etc....I tried not to be hurt every time she would call me and say...*Hey Cath...what are you doing friday*? I would be so tickled to finally be invited, I would say...oh nothing....and she`d say * GREAT can you watch my child while Sharon (my other sis) n I go to a movie*
They lunched together vacationed together went to movies...but I was only asked to baby sit.
My mom lived in town and a lot of times I was the only one not invited to activities between the three of them
We all had german shepherd puppies from the same litter....every year on the dogs birthday the sisters and mom would plan an outing to the river to celebrate...never inviting me or my pup.
When one sis got married...I was asked not to come up because with my family ..it would be too many people....
The final straw came when I found out that my sisters decided to take a plane to fla to visit our Dad with their kids...go to disney etc.
I found out that they not only didn`t invite me to go along...instead...they took our mutual friend and even GAVE her the plane ticket :(
I almost severed relations at that point...I was so crushed....but I decided to say nothing....firmly resolving to develope myself into a person that they would WANT to have along...I mean there has to be some reason why they consistantly don`t want me along right????
(I found out years later it was mostly just one sister after a while the second sister got wise and quit letting her)
I finally figured out that there was a price I was going to have to pay for the decade that I had cut myself off from them while I was involved with twi....It was going to take time to reform those bonds that the rest of my family had built over the time I was gone
I have done everything within my power to be pleasant and amenable even when the same sister insists on embarassing and shaming me at every gathering over something i did as a child....
What I have found is...I don`t think that the one sister will ever have any use for me....I kid you not ...the ONLY time she calls me on the phone is to see if she can leave her son.....where as the bond with my other sister and brother have strengthened and has become a rich source of joy. I do not think that this would have happened if I had sulked and brooded over the bygone slights and insults.
It has taken many years of attempting to be gracious and biting my tongue....but it has been well worth it to me....it also gets easier as time goes by....
The one thing I know is that as MUCH as these people can hurt irritate and annoy me..I know also that they love me and I them ......and would (and have) dropped everything and be at my side at a moments notice....should the need arrise...and HAD I allowed the pain that one sybling caused ostracise me from family activities...I would have missed much joy with my other family members
I am now glad that I did not write them off ....the benefits of having a family, warts and all far outweigh the pit falls....and things do change as we spend time together.
As far as your question...yeah, it hurts.....but I still do my best to be gracious and amenable, folks usually get tired of being boogers after a while...lol ...
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Psalm 71 one
Sheesh! I guess this stuff happens a whole lot more than I thought! ! :blink:
Socks--Too funny! LOL!!! Actually I am the youngest female in my family-- my brother (the one who's visiting) is 5 yrs younger, but I have always known he was my Mom's favorite. (She'd deny she has any favorites, but the actions--ever so subtle--prove differently. Weird as this may sound, I still have no doubt she loves me though--probably as much as she does my brother!)
Oh Wascal! You are so right!
But it hurts ME even to read what your siblings and OutOfDaFog's have done to you!
LET ME AT 'EM!!! (Psalmie throws gooey mixture of chocolate pie, spaghetti sauce and mashed taters on both "mean big sister's" heads!!!! :P )
OdaFog--I wish I had answers for you--parting company with them would help you have less of the rejection, giving the hurt a chance to heal, but it brings it's own set of hurts--missing them! Missing out on all the good things that happen. (I hope there are some!) I think the biggest thing is the boundaries--which I am still having to learn.
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