I know of quite a few of the younger folk who have rebelled in their own way and others are just biding their time till they can break free. They'd love for their parents to come with them, but aren't going to stick around just to please them.
They go to school - they interract with "normal" kids and they see how "normal" kids live and that's how they want to live too. They also see how lame "the more abundant life" is and how paltry it is in comparison. They hear the fights, they hear the rumors and kids pick up on so much more than adults realize. They think deeper than parents want to give them credit for. I think that younger generation want a better life for themselves than they've seen around them.
I don't know many that daydream about living in a trailer or a dorm room for the rest of their lives with no car, no free time, no ability to cook their own meals and have pets and do "normal" things.
Over the years, I'va had the chance to share talks & time with so many of our younger people. Their concerns are things such as: how do I pay for college, how do I get that 1st job, why are we so different from other kids at school? Why can't we just have a good time with friends outside " the household "? I mean some of these kids just want to have a normal life without big brother watching evrything that they do or say. A couple of the older ones that I had as friends actually looked forward to the ACS in Dallas because it gave them a chance to make new friends from other areas. Now, they can't even do that because ACS is going back to HQ. Some are actually embarrassed or ashamed to admit that they are wayfers. I don't envy them when they get in the real world because they will NOT be ready for it. :(
TWI , like many cults, owed its initial and intermediate success to idealiistic youth eager to make a difference. Lots of us were of the 60s and post 60s generation which sought to birng meaning to life so when we saw others like ourselves participating with TWI, it was an easy move to get involved. TWI owes much to youth and all its idealism. But what about now ? Its a collection of aging die hards and there is very little appeal to young people at any level. It is very much an "old persons" church and a ridiculously demanding one at that. What young person would be attracted to a life with TWI where the average age must be 40+ ? With whom would you speak , drink, or go out with ? TWI is a dead organization that is an antique, a relic of the past when "alternative religions" flourished becuase of youthful optimism and energy. But no young person who thinks for him/her self could ever be happy staying in TWI.
...The natural tendency for young people is to find their "own thing"...which oftentimes includes rejecting their "parent's thing"...In twi this is magnified for reasons already stated. An old dog that's been conditioned to stay in his cage, will do so even if you open the door for him...open the door for a young pup and he'll take off running, snapping at the wind with his teeth... B)
And so many churches these days have rock bands and services expressely geared toward and for young people. They are teaching more substance than churches once did AND they are FUN places to be....FAR CRY from TWIt-ville. BUT, we're glad about that, aren't we? ;)
When I took pfal, I was 19 years old.......and three months later, when veepee came to our area for a statewide meeting, I was really unimpressed by him. He was NOT the reason for my staying in twi..... that's for sure!!!
Back in the early 70s, there was soooooo little structure. We had nights of "hanging together" and someone would feel inspired to teach for 15 minutes. There was SO MUCH GENUINE, GODLY LOVE happening that it was one of the biggest reasons for getting together. Hours passed and midnight would roll around before we even knew it.......and we'd have to part, only excited to be together THE NEXT NIGHT.
We did NOT need twi leadership to dictate how many times we should have fellowship. We did NOT need twi leadership to tell us to go witnessing. We did NOT need twi leadership to plan our outings. Heck, I think we would have done RIGHT FINE without twi leadership altogether.
Yes......there were "good ole days." But to me, this all hinged on the local believers who walked with the power of God and lived love to the max. The good ole days has NOTHING to do with twi headquarters and its pontificating and it buildings. Sheeeeesh.........it was believers in the ONE BODY that made each day sing with wonderful blessings.
Today, I cannot imagine why the young folk stick around at all. Once getting out of high school.......if it were me, I'D BE GONE.
One of the things about being an adult is making choices.
The choice of persueing an education (I would suggest doing this).
The choice of how or if you choose to worship.
The choice of how to live your own life
etc...
A tough question for young adults is: What are your goals and how do you plan on achiving these goals?
Another question could be... Is twi going to help achive these goals?
Is twi going to help fund a college education for the person who faithfully goes to all the functions etc... but not in a "leadership" position? (I don't think so)
Will twi tell you to study your class asignments or study the materials coming from twi?
It is easier to follow after your goals without the schakels of twi (IMO)...
There is a small group of young Way folks who did make it through to college and are very happy with being in theWay. They go to school all around the country, alot go to Bowling Green. They believe that they can make positive changes within the Way once they go in the Corps or get onto staff at HQ. Since the rules have relaxed somewhat, or least from when i was in, they are ALLOWED alot more freedom. They believe in the Bible and that the Word of God is the Will of God. Alot do not believe what they read on The Web and here at Greasespot. This is a young, vibrant group, and they stay in touch with each other all over the country and world via Internet. But i guess the main goal is to bring about changes, like bringing the Rock back to the Way, once they obtain positions of power themselves. But this group is pretty small, and their hopes are set very high.
Welcome R.C...loved your "take" on the WayGB btw..I agree l00% on that one..(in your profile..
I'm glad there is a young group such as who you speak of,,that really want to make changes that'll help our planet..Us "oldtimers" know what you're talking about & secretly wish that things could/would be different..as there's not much else better than love amongst the Brethern..
Enjoy you time here..a good group of "diners"..LOL
It's not surprising. The Way kids are so secluded from how life in the "real world" actually works that when they do go to collegeg or start work & get away from their family they see outside the box of the household & realize how sheltered they've been & finally just decide to get away.
It's sad really because these kids have no clue what other kids are like. They can't associate with other kids of other religions, at least not enough to learn about it. The dare not associate with homosexuals & they do not know how to deal with it when they start work & have no choice. They are taught from child up that the only reason to associate with those "outside of the household" is to witness to them & bring them to fellowship.
All of that makes it very hard when they do get out on their own because they've been in such a fantasy world.
You're right Vyctorya, they have no social skills and are extremely uncomfortable in "normal" situations. It's a pity because children shouldn't be raised that way.
Welcome, RC! I'm glad to hear that some kids recognize that all is not right with TWI and that they all have a network of communication open with each other. Perhaps once one of them wakes up to the fact that the organization is rotten down to the core, they'll be able to show the others.....OR these bright, optomitic ones could be the ones to bring down TWI. It could happen!
Many of us spent years of our lives trying to effect "positive change from within"........and now, lots of lcm-wannabes have risen up in the ranks. And, THEY HAVE NO PLANS ON LEAVING.
:D :D
With the likes of Rupp, and Hxrney, and Spaghetti, and others.....the lcm dogma is not going to be leaving the cornfield cult anytime soon. These guys would quote lcm more than scripture.......they have been programmed to think, act, confront, micromanage, and intimidate just like lcm.
Even rosalie hasn't changed the complexion of twi in her rulership.
The need for micromanaging is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.
With the likes of Rupp, and Hxrney, and Spaghetti, and others.....the lcm dogma is not going to be leaving the cornfield cult anytime soon. These guys would quote lcm more than scripture.......they have been programmed to think, act, confront, micromanage, and intimidate just like lcm.
The wife of one of the men listed above was one of LCM's many sex partners. Willingly too (as willing as one brainwashed into doing ANYTHING for the MOG could be), as in would fight with other women over who would get to be with him on a given night.
So, there were women who WANTED to do it for the glory or whatever, and those who were coerced into it.
"The wife of one of the men listed above was one of LCM's many sex partners. "
I believe the above statement is true. Those kids are wasting their time. There are deeply entrenched problems in TWI and as Skyrider said, "It's all about the money". . I also believe that statement.
They got lots of it. And Camp Gunnison, Inc. by now is worth tens of millions with skyrocketing real estate prices. They do not need dedicated young people with false dreams in thier eyes. They just need staff workers.
Those young people would be better off starting their own group. (But please do not make it in a cornfield out in the middle of nowhere.)
The common thread with these teens and college kids, is that most of them have been in it their WHOLE lives. Everyone who is going to leave from the LCM fallout has pretty much left. Alot of them have to be aware of the mass exodus due to the lawsuits, Waydale, and Greasespot. The majority of the feeling is that VPW's teachings are right and they are going to carry on the task of teaching Gods Word like it has not been known since the 1st century church. Their parents want legacys goddammit!! They are very aware of the problems within The Way, and i think the number one contributing factor to staying hot for the Word is family connections and family pressure. Like i said, most of this group has been in their whole life. Leaving The Way is a huge task, when you have no support system outside of The Way. That is why they stay sooo connected through the Internet and classes. Dallas was THE place to be, to stay connected and hang out with Way friends. Its the feeling that, that is all they have, and they all share common goals and problems that are unique to young Wayfers. Like, trying to date a female or male that is in a different state, but just met at the most recent Adv. Class. or Special. Where else can one experience that than in the Household?? They cannot be unequally yoked together with an unbeliever, so the only people to date are fellow believers. Well, if your area has 20 believers, and you are the only teen or young person, then you are gonna be at that Adv. Class or special to sow your wild oats, godammit!!! Been there, done that!! Dont get me started on the guilt factor for liking unbelievers that is handed out to those poor saps who are still in!!
Its like the feeling of those who stuck it out through the Fog Years. We thought it was such a noble, valiant cause, standing side by side with LCM and the Board of Trustees who were recieving revelation on how to crush the VPW imposter,C. Geer, who shapeshifts into VPWs likeness at a whim, and so on. It was us against them, the dreaded Stick people who worshipped VPW and listened to all of his tapes constantly and stole the PFAL class. How dare they!! We are gonna wash our feet in the blood of the wicked!!
Now WE are the Stick people. We are enemy of the Way these days. We are all possessed and spread lies about The Way on the Internet. We are the fuel that stoke the fire of the new generation of Wayfers, how ever few of them that are left. They are going to conquer us all with yet, with ANOTHER taped class, and prove us all wrong with an even thicker syllabus!!
Hopefully, the youth that have been in twi their WHOLE lives will be awakened from their stupor and see the manipulation mongers! They might start to see thru the facade IF they converse with their college peers, their professors and course work. It could happen!!
Yeah......noble and valiant were we (??????......sheeesh) to stand with twi after the "fog years" and against those who stole pfal. The manipulation just went more subtle, more devious.
Veepee......called 'em cop-outs.
Lcm...........called 'em greasespots and sticks.
Both men used labels and manipulation to "circle the wagons." These youth who want to get back to vpw's ministry KNOW NOT WHEREOF THEY SPEAK.
Kristen Rhodxs, to name one of many children who left, was raised in TWI. Yet she left boldly in the face of being shunned, marked and avoided, etc. by her own parents. Screw em!, she said. I suppose if they ever want to see her or the grandchildren they will have to accept her for the loving christian person she is.
Children leave the nest and should develop their own lives and not necessarily follow in the footsteps of their parents. They're better off. Especially if those parents are abusive, mean and narrow minded like many I have seen in TWI through the years. So much for TWI's claim that they "develop more harmony in the home."
As far as human development goes, a great deal of the work of adolescence, in developing your own sense of self and autonomy, is to be able to separate yourself from your parents and form your own set of values to which you can become loyal.
This means that you choose the values and people to whom you are loyal, rather than simply accepting your parents choices. This milestone marks a critical development in the cognitive life of a human being, in which he or she has attained a higher level of thought processes involving independent reasoning.
Those of the younger generation who have broken with their parents' idolatrous devotion to a sick organization, have accomplished this task of moving on to the cognitive stage of formal operations. And, they have succeeded in doing so in an untenable environment, which speaks both to their level of intelligence and determination.
Those children of TWI who have gone on to college, yet still embrace the views of their parents solely because that is what they have been taught, are headed toward psychological trouble: It is quite possible they have become stuck in the concrete operational stage, unable to completely reason on their own and fully develop independent thought.
In the concrete operational stage (this usually develops around the ages 7-12), the human being becomes capable of logical thinking, but not abstract thought. It is during the teenage and young adult years that a human being must break out of that level and into the arena of formal cognitive operations by being able to formulate their own (truly their own) opinions and values, based solely upon reason and not repetition.
Those who cling to TWI doctrines simply because it is what they have been taught, are in danger of never fully developing independent thought. TWI allows "logic" of the concrete stage, but not the independent reasoning of formal operations, stunting intellectual and emotional growth. A person stuck in that stage believes they have attained the pinnacle of reason, because they can use logic, however they can only use logic within a strict framework.
Logic without liberty is NOT reason.
Congratulations to those of you who escaped the crushing influences of that cult.
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Belle
AMEN, Skyrider!
I know of quite a few of the younger folk who have rebelled in their own way and others are just biding their time till they can break free. They'd love for their parents to come with them, but aren't going to stick around just to please them.
They go to school - they interract with "normal" kids and they see how "normal" kids live and that's how they want to live too. They also see how lame "the more abundant life" is and how paltry it is in comparison. They hear the fights, they hear the rumors and kids pick up on so much more than adults realize. They think deeper than parents want to give them credit for. I think that younger generation want a better life for themselves than they've seen around them.
I don't know many that daydream about living in a trailer or a dorm room for the rest of their lives with no car, no free time, no ability to cook their own meals and have pets and do "normal" things.
Can't blame them for that! Good for them!
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
belle
not only good for them but....god bless them!!
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railroader
Over the years, I'va had the chance to share talks & time with so many of our younger people. Their concerns are things such as: how do I pay for college, how do I get that 1st job, why are we so different from other kids at school? Why can't we just have a good time with friends outside " the household "? I mean some of these kids just want to have a normal life without big brother watching evrything that they do or say. A couple of the older ones that I had as friends actually looked forward to the ACS in Dallas because it gave them a chance to make new friends from other areas. Now, they can't even do that because ACS is going back to HQ. Some are actually embarrassed or ashamed to admit that they are wayfers. I don't envy them when they get in the real world because they will NOT be ready for it. :(
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diazbro
TWI , like many cults, owed its initial and intermediate success to idealiistic youth eager to make a difference. Lots of us were of the 60s and post 60s generation which sought to birng meaning to life so when we saw others like ourselves participating with TWI, it was an easy move to get involved. TWI owes much to youth and all its idealism. But what about now ? Its a collection of aging die hards and there is very little appeal to young people at any level. It is very much an "old persons" church and a ridiculously demanding one at that. What young person would be attracted to a life with TWI where the average age must be 40+ ? With whom would you speak , drink, or go out with ? TWI is a dead organization that is an antique, a relic of the past when "alternative religions" flourished becuase of youthful optimism and energy. But no young person who thinks for him/her self could ever be happy staying in TWI.
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GrouchoMarxJr
diazbro makes an excellant point...
...The natural tendency for young people is to find their "own thing"...which oftentimes includes rejecting their "parent's thing"...In twi this is magnified for reasons already stated. An old dog that's been conditioned to stay in his cage, will do so even if you open the door for him...open the door for a young pup and he'll take off running, snapping at the wind with his teeth... B)
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Belle
And so many churches these days have rock bands and services expressely geared toward and for young people. They are teaching more substance than churches once did AND they are FUN places to be....FAR CRY from TWIt-ville. BUT, we're glad about that, aren't we? ;)
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skyrider
Yeah......what ya'll said. :D
When I took pfal, I was 19 years old.......and three months later, when veepee came to our area for a statewide meeting, I was really unimpressed by him. He was NOT the reason for my staying in twi..... that's for sure!!!
Back in the early 70s, there was soooooo little structure. We had nights of "hanging together" and someone would feel inspired to teach for 15 minutes. There was SO MUCH GENUINE, GODLY LOVE happening that it was one of the biggest reasons for getting together. Hours passed and midnight would roll around before we even knew it.......and we'd have to part, only excited to be together THE NEXT NIGHT.
We did NOT need twi leadership to dictate how many times we should have fellowship. We did NOT need twi leadership to tell us to go witnessing. We did NOT need twi leadership to plan our outings. Heck, I think we would have done RIGHT FINE without twi leadership altogether.
Yes......there were "good ole days." But to me, this all hinged on the local believers who walked with the power of God and lived love to the max. The good ole days has NOTHING to do with twi headquarters and its pontificating and it buildings. Sheeeeesh.........it was believers in the ONE BODY that made each day sing with wonderful blessings.
Today, I cannot imagine why the young folk stick around at all. Once getting out of high school.......if it were me, I'D BE GONE.
:D :D
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Zshot
One of the things about being an adult is making choices.
The choice of persueing an education (I would suggest doing this).
The choice of how or if you choose to worship.
The choice of how to live your own life
etc...
A tough question for young adults is: What are your goals and how do you plan on achiving these goals?
Another question could be... Is twi going to help achive these goals?
Is twi going to help fund a college education for the person who faithfully goes to all the functions etc... but not in a "leadership" position? (I don't think so)
Will twi tell you to study your class asignments or study the materials coming from twi?
It is easier to follow after your goals without the schakels of twi (IMO)...
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Raven's Claw
There is a small group of young Way folks who did make it through to college and are very happy with being in theWay. They go to school all around the country, alot go to Bowling Green. They believe that they can make positive changes within the Way once they go in the Corps or get onto staff at HQ. Since the rules have relaxed somewhat, or least from when i was in, they are ALLOWED alot more freedom. They believe in the Bible and that the Word of God is the Will of God. Alot do not believe what they read on The Web and here at Greasespot. This is a young, vibrant group, and they stay in touch with each other all over the country and world via Internet. But i guess the main goal is to bring about changes, like bringing the Rock back to the Way, once they obtain positions of power themselves. But this group is pretty small, and their hopes are set very high.
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Second James
Welcome R.C...loved your "take" on the WayGB btw..I agree l00% on that one..(in your profile..
I'm glad there is a young group such as who you speak of,,that really want to make changes that'll help our planet..Us "oldtimers" know what you're talking about & secretly wish that things could/would be different..as there's not much else better than love amongst the Brethern..
Enjoy you time here..a good group of "diners"..LOL
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Raven's Claw
thanks second james!!
it would be a case of "putting off the old, and putting on the new"!! maybe change can occur, who knows.
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Vyctorya911
It's not surprising. The Way kids are so secluded from how life in the "real world" actually works that when they do go to collegeg or start work & get away from their family they see outside the box of the household & realize how sheltered they've been & finally just decide to get away.
It's sad really because these kids have no clue what other kids are like. They can't associate with other kids of other religions, at least not enough to learn about it. The dare not associate with homosexuals & they do not know how to deal with it when they start work & have no choice. They are taught from child up that the only reason to associate with those "outside of the household" is to witness to them & bring them to fellowship.
All of that makes it very hard when they do get out on their own because they've been in such a fantasy world.
Vyctorya
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Belle
You're right Vyctorya, they have no social skills and are extremely uncomfortable in "normal" situations. It's a pity because children shouldn't be raised that way.
Welcome, RC! I'm glad to hear that some kids recognize that all is not right with TWI and that they all have a network of communication open with each other. Perhaps once one of them wakes up to the fact that the organization is rotten down to the core, they'll be able to show the others.....OR these bright, optomitic ones could be the ones to bring down TWI.
It could happen! 
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excathedra
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skyrider
ex,
I thought the same thing.
Many of us spent years of our lives trying to effect "positive change from within"........and now, lots of lcm-wannabes have risen up in the ranks. And, THEY HAVE NO PLANS ON LEAVING.
:D :D
With the likes of Rupp, and Hxrney, and Spaghetti, and others.....the lcm dogma is not going to be leaving the cornfield cult anytime soon. These guys would quote lcm more than scripture.......they have been programmed to think, act, confront, micromanage, and intimidate just like lcm.
Even rosalie hasn't changed the complexion of twi in her rulership.
The need for micromanaging is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.
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Nato
The wife of one of the men listed above was one of LCM's many sex partners. Willingly too (as willing as one brainwashed into doing ANYTHING for the MOG could be), as in would fight with other women over who would get to be with him on a given night.
So, there were women who WANTED to do it for the glory or whatever, and those who were coerced into it.
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WordWolf
Oh, let them try!
Many of you tried to fix it from within before you
saved your own necks and escaped!
They need to become fully-persuaded that the
organization is irreparably corrupted.
They best way to do that is-
let them try to fix it and see how far they
DON'T get.
Eventually, they'll understand, and get tired
of the constant
grab a parachute, and hit the silk.
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igotout
"The wife of one of the men listed above was one of LCM's many sex partners. "
I believe the above statement is true. Those kids are wasting their time. There are deeply entrenched problems in TWI and as Skyrider said, "It's all about the money". . I also believe that statement.
They got lots of it. And Camp Gunnison, Inc. by now is worth tens of millions with skyrocketing real estate prices. They do not need dedicated young people with false dreams in thier eyes. They just need staff workers.
Those young people would be better off starting their own group. (But please do not make it in a cornfield out in the middle of nowhere.)
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Raven's Claw
The common thread with these teens and college kids, is that most of them have been in it their WHOLE lives. Everyone who is going to leave from the LCM fallout has pretty much left. Alot of them have to be aware of the mass exodus due to the lawsuits, Waydale, and Greasespot. The majority of the feeling is that VPW's teachings are right and they are going to carry on the task of teaching Gods Word like it has not been known since the 1st century church. Their parents want legacys goddammit!! They are very aware of the problems within The Way, and i think the number one contributing factor to staying hot for the Word is family connections and family pressure. Like i said, most of this group has been in their whole life. Leaving The Way is a huge task, when you have no support system outside of The Way. That is why they stay sooo connected through the Internet and classes. Dallas was THE place to be, to stay connected and hang out with Way friends. Its the feeling that, that is all they have, and they all share common goals and problems that are unique to young Wayfers. Like, trying to date a female or male that is in a different state, but just met at the most recent Adv. Class. or Special. Where else can one experience that than in the Household?? They cannot be unequally yoked together with an unbeliever, so the only people to date are fellow believers. Well, if your area has 20 believers, and you are the only teen or young person, then you are gonna be at that Adv. Class or special to sow your wild oats, godammit!!! Been there, done that!! Dont get me started on the guilt factor for liking unbelievers that is handed out to those poor saps who are still in!!
Its like the feeling of those who stuck it out through the Fog Years. We thought it was such a noble, valiant cause, standing side by side with LCM and the Board of Trustees who were recieving revelation on how to crush the VPW imposter,C. Geer, who shapeshifts into VPWs likeness at a whim, and so on. It was us against them, the dreaded Stick people who worshipped VPW and listened to all of his tapes constantly and stole the PFAL class. How dare they!! We are gonna wash our feet in the blood of the wicked!!
Now WE are the Stick people. We are enemy of the Way these days. We are all possessed and spread lies about The Way on the Internet. We are the fuel that stoke the fire of the new generation of Wayfers, how ever few of them that are left. They are going to conquer us all with yet, with ANOTHER taped class, and prove us all wrong with an even thicker syllabus!!
And the cycle goes on....
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skyrider
Hopefully, the youth that have been in twi their WHOLE lives will be awakened from their stupor and see the manipulation mongers! They might start to see thru the facade IF they converse with their college peers, their professors and course work. It could happen!!
Yeah......noble and valiant were we (??????......sheeesh) to stand with twi after the "fog years" and against those who stole pfal. The manipulation just went more subtle, more devious.
Veepee......called 'em cop-outs.
Lcm...........called 'em greasespots and sticks.
Both men used labels and manipulation to "circle the wagons." These youth who want to get back to vpw's ministry KNOW NOT WHEREOF THEY SPEAK.
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igotout
Kristen Rhodxs, to name one of many children who left, was raised in TWI. Yet she left boldly in the face of being shunned, marked and avoided, etc. by her own parents. Screw em!, she said. I suppose if they ever want to see her or the grandchildren they will have to accept her for the loving christian person she is.
Children leave the nest and should develop their own lives and not necessarily follow in the footsteps of their parents. They're better off. Especially if those parents are abusive, mean and narrow minded like many I have seen in TWI through the years. So much for TWI's claim that they "develop more harmony in the home."
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Catcup
As far as human development goes, a great deal of the work of adolescence, in developing your own sense of self and autonomy, is to be able to separate yourself from your parents and form your own set of values to which you can become loyal.
This means that you choose the values and people to whom you are loyal, rather than simply accepting your parents choices. This milestone marks a critical development in the cognitive life of a human being, in which he or she has attained a higher level of thought processes involving independent reasoning.
Those of the younger generation who have broken with their parents' idolatrous devotion to a sick organization, have accomplished this task of moving on to the cognitive stage of formal operations. And, they have succeeded in doing so in an untenable environment, which speaks both to their level of intelligence and determination.
Those children of TWI who have gone on to college, yet still embrace the views of their parents solely because that is what they have been taught, are headed toward psychological trouble: It is quite possible they have become stuck in the concrete operational stage, unable to completely reason on their own and fully develop independent thought.
In the concrete operational stage (this usually develops around the ages 7-12), the human being becomes capable of logical thinking, but not abstract thought. It is during the teenage and young adult years that a human being must break out of that level and into the arena of formal cognitive operations by being able to formulate their own (truly their own) opinions and values, based solely upon reason and not repetition.
Those who cling to TWI doctrines simply because it is what they have been taught, are in danger of never fully developing independent thought. TWI allows "logic" of the concrete stage, but not the independent reasoning of formal operations, stunting intellectual and emotional growth. A person stuck in that stage believes they have attained the pinnacle of reason, because they can use logic, however they can only use logic within a strict framework.
Logic without liberty is NOT reason.
Congratulations to those of you who escaped the crushing influences of that cult.
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TheEvan
Wow, amazing post on many levels, catcup.
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oldiesman
Ah never mind.
Edited by oldiesmanLink to comment
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