I have no desire to explain my understanding of the theory of evolution, even to someone who didn't smack evolutionists around B)
Seriously though, I didn't think you were the type to get that frustrated with someone else's beliefs, the "smacking" reference seemed out of character.
Thanks for the explanation, and as usual, i don't need help
You're a nut!
And thanks cause you had a dadgum compliment in there dude. :P
I don't think age is an issue. Cultural prejudices are set pretty early, even if active believing in them isn't
Fair enough I guess cause babies do take in quite a bit when ya think about it. But I reckon I was wondering in my case how I could have imagined the type response I got from God in my plea at 4. So I was being rather specific.
How is this reliability demonstrated?
But of course!
Why did I know that I couldn't just keep answering other questions and this one not keep coming around. :)
Okay let me think of this one for a few minutes while I take a stretch break.
My son moved this weekend. He asked me to help him move, I agreed to help him last night. I showed up at the appointed time, and helped. I demonstrated reliability of one sort.
However, if my son had asked me for a large sum of money, or to help him on a different day when I had to work, I would have had to say no.
There was really no way my son could have known in advance what my answer would have been. He knew that I would help him if I could, but had no accurate way to predict what would prevent me from assisting him.
I believe that God is like that, if he exists. You ask God for stuff, you pray, but you don't really know if he is going to come through. Can anyone truthfully say that every time they prayed for something they received the desired result? Even in a narrow category such as health? Doubt it
Fair enough I guess cause babies do take in quite a bit when ya think about it. But I reckon I was wondering in my case how I could have imagined the type response I got from God in my plea at 4. So I was being rather specific.
I guess I'll have to go back and re-read what you said the rsonse from God was.
And so I got on my knees and begged if there was anything that could help me please would it. And of this day I can still recall enough it warms me even this chilly morning with the patio door open for fresh air. It was like a big ole sun with arms and as I told my childish story of despair towards it I sensed tears streaming from it and then arms that embraced me and from that day forward I have had this yellow figure (yeah :blink: I know) holding my hand.
Okay...I just read your story. Very moving. I'll not question its reality (at least for the sake of this discussion) But it kind of illustrates what I am saying. What about the image that you perceived led you to believe that it was the god that you now worship?
I believe that God is like that, if he exists. You ask God for stuff, you pray, but you don't really know if he is going to come through. Can anyone truthfully say that every time they prayed for something they received the desired result? Even in a narrow category such as health? Doubt it.
I've experience not understanding why I hadn't received something in the realm I thought was needed. And I know this sounds so take it on faithish but I've noticed more so how in times past where I'd not gotten what I wanted was something I was now thankfully for. Now of course this isn't 100% of those prayers answered. Because health as you say is one I can't speak of as an authority as I've seen loss that I've prayed till hoarse regarding. But I've also noticed that my perception of what I think God should or shouldn't do has changed in the past couple of years. He's much more compassionate and forgiving than I'd believed him to be for several years.
Quote by Oakspear:
I guess I'll have to go back and re-read what you said the rsonse from God was.
Okay...I just read your story. Very moving. I'll not question its reality (at least for the sake of this discussion) But it kind of illustrates what I am saying. What about the image that you perceived led you to believe that it was the god that you now worship?
Interesting how when you try to lay out something you can't google and show proof of it gets a bit binding. I'd say it was the sense of not being alone that I felt then and have felt that since. And it's something I actually feel as if the air changes if that makes sense.
Notice that I didn't say what you experienced wasn't real, or that you didn't experience it, or that it wasn't divine. What caused you to believe that this source of comfort was identical to the god of the bible?
Assuming for the sake of argument that you weren't hallucinating, did the source of this "vision" personally lay out his agenda, or did you assume that he was the deity described in the bible?
O.K., I'll give you that you can know what you're thinking at any given time
without utilizing any systematized method to any great degree.
But beyond that, I can't think of anything that we can "KNOW" without the aforementioned
criteria. We can suspect, have a theory about, or even be thoroughly persuaded about something,
but if we can't record it, analyze it, and reproduce it, we don't KNOW it, do we? Even historical events, do
we really KNOW what happened in the past? Yeah, we can be pretty confident about certain things, but "know"? I don't think so...
Yup, but still, people "know" things that can never be tested, verified, or repeated.
Me, I have no problem with this. I do have a problem when those people try to push what they "know" on the rest of us.
Notice that I didn't say what you experienced wasn't real, or that you didn't experience it, or that it wasn't divine. What caused you to believe that this source of comfort was identical to the god of the bible?
Hard question. I don't have a verse that describes what I've physically known to be his presence. I could quote ones that speak of his being a hiding place or place of refuge (Psalms is loaded) but then again that falls back to something I can't prove. Even accounts in the Bible were often met with man's need to see and touch before they'd accept it. As I know all who read this forum are probably well aware of. But to prove to you even why I think my experience is divine I can't do other than the recognition that at so young I knew I was in the presence of something that I could trust never to hurt me.
Assuming for the sake of argument that you weren't hallucinating, did the source of this "vision" personally lay out his agenda, or did you assume that he was the deity described in the bible?
Above covers that I think. And perhaps it was simply the fact no one but the other person knew my horror yet here was something/someone that also knew from the way it made me feel that he knew and it grieved him and he wanted to protect and love me. I again can't prove that but it did fit what I thought God to be. What the Sunday school verses had reflected and that was of love.
Yup, but still, people "know" things that can never be tested, verified, or repeated.
Me, I have no problem with this. I do have a problem when those people try to push what they "know" on the rest of us.
Part of the reason I told my story was in an effort to weigh in for God since he isn't a registered poster and in so doing perhaps someone reading may consider how he's been there for them in times of despair. Yet I know Geo has agonized and not felt that presence and how do I explain that? I'm afraind I can't.
Yup, but still, people "know" things that can never be tested, verified, or repeated.
Me, I have no problem with this. I do have a problem when those people try to push what they "know" on the rest of us.
May I use these words to describe a problem I see exhibited here amongst the posters on this very point? And I took the name of the poster out because I am not addressing them individually but whoever reads this.
We in an effort to dispel darkness in a variety of arenas on occasion damn to hell nearly with our words another poster because they refuse to back down on what they experientially know to be true. That in part is why I for the greater part no longer read "The Way" forum anymore. One has to sort thru the passions of the reader to get to the meat of what it is you assume they are trying to communicate. And gawd forbid someone defend their understanding if it be contraire to another. It's so cultish wouldn't you agree? There is more than one contributor in this thread that does not subscribe to that so when you read I beseech you to recognize this is as the shoe fits. And in the past I've poo-poo'd someone as well because their account of love from someone was the same someone I received quite the opposite from. So I assure you I'm no Saint here. But we can have a civil conversation here and now without someone calling the other whatever turns them on at the heated moment. Why can't we do it other places? Especially in "The Way" forum? I mean even in 'tacks of which I no longer frequent much either you still see more respect amongst each other and that should be alarming I would think. I mean 'tacks is one heated subject in this day and time!
Thanks for suffering me and for any reader that would like to use my face as a dart board...you have my blessings! <_<
CK, he's inscrutable that's for sure, with ways that are beyond me. We could argue with him George but it would be much different compared to you or I, that I can promise.
He's an interesting read though. That guy can jump from a dead-stop to the top of our back fence, a good 6 feet, in a single bound. He does a little back leg scrabble to steady himself but he's very spry. And conservative in how and when he expends that valuable energy. And he's almost 12 in peep years. Socially active in pursuits he cares about and feels are important. Goes out a lot. Doing quite well in his retirement years, bless his heart.
Today I was refilling the Cat Bowl and spilled it, pellets flying everywhere. He jumped back and surveyed the floor, covered in food, then he just sat there and gave me That Look, like "Good job, dude, wait till the Big Girl Animal sees this". He's a pretty cool cat and tends to handle awkward moments well so I didn't get a lot of grief from him. I went off to get the vacuum and he trotted up next to me and followed me out to the garage door. I figured he was going to help, but he made a detour for the front door and sat there, which is the Signal To Be Let Out. I opened the door and he trotted out giving me one last glance that said "If She asks, I didn't see anything".
Therein is that unspoken understanding we have that's difficult to describe. I know, he knows. We both know. We just don't talk about it much. Maybe it's a guy thing.
So it's hard to figure out, but I'm reading the exchanges here closely, looking for clues.
...again can't prove that but it did fit what I thought God to be
I'm pretty sure that you know that I'm not asking you to "prove" anything. I'm just trying to figure out why people come to the conclusions that they do.
Hard question. I don't have a verse that describes what I've physically known to be his presence
I think that's good. You experienced something, and you chose a framework in which you can understand and process that experience. I don't believe that the objective truth or falsity of the bible has anything to do with what you experience and how you choose to learn, grow and be comforted from it.
Let's extend that to non-believers in the supernatural. They experience something, and prefer to choose a framework of understanding that does not include the supernatural.
I think we can get through the day without damning the atheists and pagans, or laughing at the credulousness of the Christians.
When I was young, a wee little wayfer, we moved quite a bit. Each new town or new school we arrived at I was usually greeted by other kids that thought they needed to take me for a test drive to see if I was up to their high standards. You know, scrapping...fisticuffs...the backyard brawl...or any street or alley off school grounds would do. I had an older borther, still do, and I had learned with his help how to defend myself against much larger people. Well, what usually happened was they were obviously not afraid of my scrawniness and I was not afraid of their prepubescence, so it was ON! Each of us thought we could take the other. I for one KNEW it. I had to. There would be no point in going forward with this rite of passage if I didn't. In the end, though, neither of us really knew untill one of our a$$es was kicked, or at least hurting. If memory serves me correctly, there was not a time in which what I knew to be true (I would be the a$$ kicker) was not physically realised. At that point everyone knew the truth. I was cool enough to hang out with them, if not cool enough for them to hang out with me.
Fast forward.
I am an artist/designer/ /////. There are a lot of things that I know I can do. I know my abilities. Even with things I have never done before, I know I can do many of them. I am in a new town with little experience and a portfolio that is in shambles, but I have a few things in there. I met a lady at a party that needed a banister. I had never done a banister before, but I knew I could do it. Eventually the guy that was going to do the banister didn't come through. The gal knew I was a furnituremaker (one of the "/'s") and thought surely I could do a banister. Well, she was right. She had faith in me for some reason having only seen a picture of one peice that I had on my digital camera at the party. At first she wanted me to be sure I thought I could do it which after looking things over I was sure and I did it.
After seeing my kick a$$ banister that I did for her she considered my offer to help in the design of her kitchen. I have done construction before, built and installed cabinets before, been trained as an industrial designer (we don't usually do kitchens), and I had been more or less a design consultant for my inlaw when he remodeled his kitchen. I know I can do this. I know it will be a really cool kitchen/ family room. I know it because I know me. Of late though, this lady needed some reassurance. She began to look at the reality that is my lack of experience. Today I reassured her. She has her doubts, but has faith in me. I am greatful for that. The reality is that there is a small chance that I won't do a good job. OK, no there isn't, but maybe a fraction of a fraction of a percent chance.
I know I can do this because this is who I am. The reality is they won't really know it untill they are standing there picking their jaws up off the floor when we are done..... or when they are cursing me as I flee in my not so sporty car.
You get the point. There have been times when I pointed out to the left field fence on the softball field and moments later danced around the diamond as the outfielders were jumping the fence to retrieve my homer like the dogs that they are. There have also been times when I've pointed out there to left field in complete confidence only to feel the cool breeze made from the ball and my bat passing in the warm summer afternoon.
Some things we know and some things we know and other things we don't but we think we do and other things we don't and know we don't and some of those times we are right and some of those times we are wrong. "And you can fool some of them some of the time but you can only fool half them all of the time." You know thats wrong, but its right. Its not Bob but the Dead Milkmen.
You wouldn't blame the lady for not choosing my lack of experience over someone more qualified. Don't blame me for thinking that perhaps the things you think you know, and can't even give me a single picture off of your digital camera, are utterly false. Would it not be more reasonable for this gal to spend quite a bit of money on someone who designs kitchens for a living? Sure it would. Would it be unreasonable for her friends to come to her and say, "What are you crazy?" Of course not. Should I stop typing now? Certainly.
RE:"A person who is terminally skeptical, in my past experience, just cannot be convinced."
I let this line slip by me before. Do I detect maybe just a whiff of antipathy towards those with a skeptical mindset?
I think skeptics get a bad rap in general. Is there something wrong with needing proof before you'll believe somthing?
Personally I think skepticism is one of man's higher virtues. Without even working up a sweat, I can think of
worlds of heartache and misery that could have been avoided had people been encouraged to have even a modicum of skepticism. Suicide bombers, David Koresh et al, and Jonestown being only a few examples.
And just why is it that Almighty God would prefer His followers to be gullible? Does He have a softspot in His heart for chumps? I dunno...
And as far as being "convinced" goes, hey, I can be convinced. I'm convinced that there's no such thing as Alien Abductions, Loch Ness Monsters, or a vast array of conspirators who shot JFK. I'm also pretty sure that the earth revolves around the sun, smoking is a major cause of all sorts of medical problems, and that most well-endowed actresses have had "boob jobs". Why? Because that seems to be where the preponderance of evidence leads. What's wrong with demanding evidence? Does it make one into a knuckle-draggin Neanderthal?
RE:"A person who is terminally skeptical, in my past experience, just cannot be convinced."
I let this line slip by me before. Do I detect maybe just a whiff of antipathy towards those with a skeptical mindset?
No antipathy at all. Just trying to convey a message of "live and let live." Obviously, my writing skills are not adequate to accomplish that.
As I said a little later on:
And, George, honestly, your core beliefs are yours alone
and should be respected as such.
As long as you don't try to evangelize (and, yes, agnostics can evangelize just as surely as true believers), its really not my business what you believe. I respect your belief system (its, frankly, the same belief system held dear by both my parents); in turn, all I ask is the same courtesy.
From what I can recall, you've always granted me that courtesy. So I really have no argument with you.
I always say that we'll find out who's right soon enough anyway, so there's no sense in arguing about it one way or the other.
Now, on the other hand, if you are trying to evangelize me to your belief system, then maybe I will have a disagreement with you. However, not one that I care to engage in.
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George Aar
I found this study (recently published in the L.A. Times) to be rather enlightening: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/pdf/2005-11.pdf (Don't be intimidated by the apparent length of it, the last half
ChattyKathy
You're a nut!
And thanks cause you had a dadgum compliment in there dude. :P
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Oakspear
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ChattyKathy
OMG you would have to ask!
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Oakspear
How is this reliability demonstrated?
But of course!
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ChattyKathy
Fair enough I guess cause babies do take in quite a bit when ya think about it. But I reckon I was wondering in my case how I could have imagined the type response I got from God in my plea at 4. So I was being rather specific.
Why did I know that I couldn't just keep answering other questions and this one not keep coming around. :)
Okay let me think of this one for a few minutes while I take a stretch break.
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Oakspear
Let me give you an example:
My son moved this weekend. He asked me to help him move, I agreed to help him last night. I showed up at the appointed time, and helped. I demonstrated reliability of one sort.
However, if my son had asked me for a large sum of money, or to help him on a different day when I had to work, I would have had to say no.
There was really no way my son could have known in advance what my answer would have been. He knew that I would help him if I could, but had no accurate way to predict what would prevent me from assisting him.
I believe that God is like that, if he exists. You ask God for stuff, you pray, but you don't really know if he is going to come through. Can anyone truthfully say that every time they prayed for something they received the desired result? Even in a narrow category such as health? Doubt it
I guess I'll have to go back and re-read what you said the rsonse from God was. Okay...I just read your story. Very moving. I'll not question its reality (at least for the sake of this discussion)Link to comment
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Oakspear
time to log off...
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ChattyKathy
Have fun! I was just doing your respones.
Quote by Oakspear:
I believe that God is like that, if he exists. You ask God for stuff, you pray, but you don't really know if he is going to come through. Can anyone truthfully say that every time they prayed for something they received the desired result? Even in a narrow category such as health? Doubt it.
I've experience not understanding why I hadn't received something in the realm I thought was needed. And I know this sounds so take it on faithish but I've noticed more so how in times past where I'd not gotten what I wanted was something I was now thankfully for. Now of course this isn't 100% of those prayers answered. Because health as you say is one I can't speak of as an authority as I've seen loss that I've prayed till hoarse regarding. But I've also noticed that my perception of what I think God should or shouldn't do has changed in the past couple of years. He's much more compassionate and forgiving than I'd believed him to be for several years.
Quote by Oakspear:
I guess I'll have to go back and re-read what you said the rsonse from God was.
Okay...I just read your story. Very moving. I'll not question its reality (at least for the sake of this discussion)
But it kind of illustrates what I am saying. What about the image that you perceived led you to believe that it was the god that you now worship?
Interesting how when you try to lay out something you can't google and show proof of it gets a bit binding. I'd say it was the sense of not being alone that I felt then and have felt that since. And it's something I actually feel as if the air changes if that makes sense.
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George Aar
Going back a few posts here:
Oak,
O.K., I'll give you that you can know what you're thinking at any given time
without utilizing any systematized method to any great degree.
But beyond that, I can't think of anything that we can "KNOW" without the aforementioned
criteria. We can suspect, have a theory about, or even be thoroughly persuaded about something,
but if we can't record it, analyze it, and reproduce it, we don't KNOW it, do we? Even historical events, do
we really KNOW what happened in the past? Yeah, we can be pretty confident about certain things, but "know"? I don't think so...
Anyway, you two are doing fine all by yourselves,
carry on...
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Oakspear
Kathy:
Notice that I didn't say what you experienced wasn't real, or that you didn't experience it, or that it wasn't divine. What caused you to believe that this source of comfort was identical to the god of the bible?
Assuming for the sake of argument that you weren't hallucinating, did the source of this "vision" personally lay out his agenda, or did you assume that he was the deity described in the bible?
Yup, but still, people "know" things that can never be tested, verified, or repeated.Me, I have no problem with this. I do have a problem when those people try to push what they "know" on the rest of us.
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ChattyKathy
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ChattyKathy
May I use these words to describe a problem I see exhibited here amongst the posters on this very point? And I took the name of the poster out because I am not addressing them individually but whoever reads this.
We in an effort to dispel darkness in a variety of arenas on occasion damn to hell nearly with our words another poster because they refuse to back down on what they experientially know to be true. That in part is why I for the greater part no longer read "The Way" forum anymore. One has to sort thru the passions of the reader to get to the meat of what it is you assume they are trying to communicate. And gawd forbid someone defend their understanding if it be contraire to another. It's so cultish wouldn't you agree? There is more than one contributor in this thread that does not subscribe to that so when you read I beseech you to recognize this is as the shoe fits. And in the past I've poo-poo'd someone as well because their account of love from someone was the same someone I received quite the opposite from. So I assure you I'm no Saint here. But we can have a civil conversation here and now without someone calling the other whatever turns them on at the heated moment. Why can't we do it other places? Especially in "The Way" forum? I mean even in 'tacks of which I no longer frequent much either you still see more respect amongst each other and that should be alarming I would think. I mean 'tacks is one heated subject in this day and time!
Thanks for suffering me and for any reader that would like to use my face as a dart board...you have my blessings! <_<
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socks
CK, he's inscrutable that's for sure, with ways that are beyond me. We could argue with him George but it would be much different compared to you or I, that I can promise.
He's an interesting read though. That guy can jump from a dead-stop to the top of our back fence, a good 6 feet, in a single bound. He does a little back leg scrabble to steady himself but he's very spry. And conservative in how and when he expends that valuable energy. And he's almost 12 in peep years. Socially active in pursuits he cares about and feels are important. Goes out a lot. Doing quite well in his retirement years, bless his heart.
Today I was refilling the Cat Bowl and spilled it, pellets flying everywhere. He jumped back and surveyed the floor, covered in food, then he just sat there and gave me That Look, like "Good job, dude, wait till the Big Girl Animal sees this". He's a pretty cool cat and tends to handle awkward moments well so I didn't get a lot of grief from him. I went off to get the vacuum and he trotted up next to me and followed me out to the garage door. I figured he was going to help, but he made a detour for the front door and sat there, which is the Signal To Be Let Out. I opened the door and he trotted out giving me one last glance that said "If She asks, I didn't see anything".
Therein is that unspoken understanding we have that's difficult to describe. I know, he knows. We both know. We just don't talk about it much. Maybe it's a guy thing.
So it's hard to figure out, but I'm reading the exchanges here closely, looking for clues.
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ChattyKathy
Socks,
You should write, wait I think you do write. :)
I swear I can actually believe your cat is thinking exactly the way you think he is.
And the "If She asks, I didn't see anything".
As always you are most enjoyable to read Socks!
Kathy
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Oakspear
Let's extend that to non-believers in the supernatural. They experience something, and prefer to choose a framework of understanding that does not include the supernatural.
I think we can get through the day without damning the atheists and pagans, or laughing at the credulousness of the Christians.
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George Aar
Oooo, I'd love to make a post now, but "Kagemusha" is on T.V.
Honto ne!
Chotto mata kudasai!
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lindyhopper
When I was young, a wee little wayfer, we moved quite a bit. Each new town or new school we arrived at I was usually greeted by other kids that thought they needed to take me for a test drive to see if I was up to their high standards. You know, scrapping...fisticuffs...the backyard brawl...or any street or alley off school grounds would do. I had an older borther, still do, and I had learned with his help how to defend myself against much larger people. Well, what usually happened was they were obviously not afraid of my scrawniness and I was not afraid of their prepubescence, so it was ON! Each of us thought we could take the other. I for one KNEW it. I had to. There would be no point in going forward with this rite of passage if I didn't. In the end, though, neither of us really knew untill one of our a$$es was kicked, or at least hurting. If memory serves me correctly, there was not a time in which what I knew to be true (I would be the a$$ kicker) was not physically realised. At that point everyone knew the truth. I was cool enough to hang out with them, if not cool enough for them to hang out with me.
Fast forward.
I am an artist/designer/ /////. There are a lot of things that I know I can do. I know my abilities. Even with things I have never done before, I know I can do many of them. I am in a new town with little experience and a portfolio that is in shambles, but I have a few things in there. I met a lady at a party that needed a banister. I had never done a banister before, but I knew I could do it. Eventually the guy that was going to do the banister didn't come through. The gal knew I was a furnituremaker (one of the "/'s") and thought surely I could do a banister. Well, she was right. She had faith in me for some reason having only seen a picture of one peice that I had on my digital camera at the party. At first she wanted me to be sure I thought I could do it which after looking things over I was sure and I did it.
After seeing my kick a$$ banister that I did for her she considered my offer to help in the design of her kitchen. I have done construction before, built and installed cabinets before, been trained as an industrial designer (we don't usually do kitchens), and I had been more or less a design consultant for my inlaw when he remodeled his kitchen. I know I can do this. I know it will be a really cool kitchen/ family room. I know it because I know me. Of late though, this lady needed some reassurance. She began to look at the reality that is my lack of experience. Today I reassured her. She has her doubts, but has faith in me. I am greatful for that. The reality is that there is a small chance that I won't do a good job. OK, no there isn't, but maybe a fraction of a fraction of a percent chance.
I know I can do this because this is who I am. The reality is they won't really know it untill they are standing there picking their jaws up off the floor when we are done..... or when they are cursing me as I flee in my not so sporty car.
You get the point. There have been times when I pointed out to the left field fence on the softball field and moments later danced around the diamond as the outfielders were jumping the fence to retrieve my homer like the dogs that they are. There have also been times when I've pointed out there to left field in complete confidence only to feel the cool breeze made from the ball and my bat passing in the warm summer afternoon.
Some things we know and some things we know and other things we don't but we think we do and other things we don't and know we don't and some of those times we are right and some of those times we are wrong. "And you can fool some of them some of the time but you can only fool half them all of the time." You know thats wrong, but its right. Its not Bob but the Dead Milkmen.
You wouldn't blame the lady for not choosing my lack of experience over someone more qualified. Don't blame me for thinking that perhaps the things you think you know, and can't even give me a single picture off of your digital camera, are utterly false. Would it not be more reasonable for this gal to spend quite a bit of money on someone who designs kitchens for a living? Sure it would. Would it be unreasonable for her friends to come to her and say, "What are you crazy?" Of course not. Should I stop typing now? Certainly.
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ChattyKathy
I would agree. :)
Um, okay if you say so dude! :unsure:
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ChattyKathy
Geo,
Go to our thread. I posted a Polish version of the Kagemusha poster. I thought you might enjoy it.
Hey wait a minute this is your thread right! So I'll just post it right here for ya. :)
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George Aar
Cathy,
I love the poster! Gee, a Polish version of a Japanes interpretation of a Shakespearian play.
Talk about cultural diversity. Anyway, it got late, and I fell asleep about 15 minutes into the movie.
- Dame dedanga! -
I hope it's on again soon. Kurasawa is the greatest....
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GarthP2000
Careful George. Some folks might take that the wrong way and add that to the "Multiculturalism is why Paris is burning" argument. ;)
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ChattyKathy
Yeah, when I found it I couldn't wait to bring it here for you cause I just knew you'd enjoy it.
:)
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George Aar
Mark,
RE:"A person who is terminally skeptical, in my past experience, just cannot be convinced."
I let this line slip by me before. Do I detect maybe just a whiff of antipathy towards those with a skeptical mindset?
I think skeptics get a bad rap in general. Is there something wrong with needing proof before you'll believe somthing?
Personally I think skepticism is one of man's higher virtues. Without even working up a sweat, I can think of
worlds of heartache and misery that could have been avoided had people been encouraged to have even a modicum of skepticism. Suicide bombers, David Koresh et al, and Jonestown being only a few examples.
And just why is it that Almighty God would prefer His followers to be gullible? Does He have a softspot in His heart for chumps? I dunno...
And as far as being "convinced" goes, hey, I can be convinced. I'm convinced that there's no such thing as Alien Abductions, Loch Ness Monsters, or a vast array of conspirators who shot JFK. I'm also pretty sure that the earth revolves around the sun, smoking is a major cause of all sorts of medical problems, and that most well-endowed actresses have had "boob jobs". Why? Because that seems to be where the preponderance of evidence leads. What's wrong with demanding evidence? Does it make one into a knuckle-draggin Neanderthal?
I think not...
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markomalley
No antipathy at all. Just trying to convey a message of "live and let live." Obviously, my writing skills are not adequate to accomplish that.
As I said a little later on:
Now, on the other hand, if you are trying to evangelize me to your belief system, then maybe I will have a disagreement with you. However, not one that I care to engage in.
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