I onl gave it 22. Some of the items mentioned are only applicable if you try to climb the ladder, and don't apply at all to the average person just a showin up. So "sleep deprivation" may have applied to some people, but not the majority. Same with confessions.
3 pts ) Confessions from members can be used against them in order to get them back in the fold, or keep them there. I have read here on GS this being used more than a few times.
A superior state of being or purification is proposed (such as "being saved" or "being rich").
5 pts ) ... An exhalted state of being is proposed (such as holiness, super-beingness or blatant godhood). Sounds a lot like being righteous , sanctified , justified and walking in christs stead to me.
Confession was a big part of Way doctrine --confession of belief yields receipt of confession and all that.
I think it would be cool if someone took this test and did it WordWolf style. Could list each questions here in this thread, and then write their rating and why, including any evidence or testimony. I bet each post would be very interesting.
Okay, let's try it. My comments are in regular text. Their comments are in bold.
What makes a cult ?
What makes a "cult" ? In a sense, any organisation can be called a cult, or not called a cult. This is very convenient for fear-mongers. It is also convenient for cultists.
Cultism is, in fact, a gradient. Any organisation which shares a common goal will exhibit a slight degree of cultism. This is perfectly normal. The problems come in when an organisation is heavily cultist : in that case, we call it a cult.
Such a measure is relative, of course. We therefore need some kind of objective measure in order to locate where an organisation is on this gradient. I'd like to propose a scoring system based on "Thought Reform And The Psychology Of Totalism", by Robert Lifton, which lists the five main characteristics of cultism, and other points proposed by John Hoagland.
If an organisation has 5 points or more, then it may be a cult, or may be susceptible to become a cult. It you accumulate more than 10 points, then it is definitively in a cult. Mainstream religions are mostly located between 5 and 10 points, and "normal" organisations below 5 points.
You may of course put down half-points or points between two choices also. This is by no means an absolute standard.
Good: Just so that we're all clear. Because the thought that 5, 10 or more is a "cult" is clearly the standard of an atheist, IMO.
milieu control
The organisation controls its people by group pressure or geographical isolation.
0 pts ) The system is open : there is no pressure to adhere, to stay in the group, or isolation from the rest of society.
1 pt ) There is some pressure in doing as the group says, but no physical coercion.
3 pts ) There is a lot of peer pressure to stay in the group and do as the group says. There may be some light physical coercion.
5 pts ) There is tremendous and constant pressure from other members to act and think like the group does. Deviating from the norm is seen as an abnormality which must be dealt with swiftly. The group is physically isolated.
I scored three points on this one, because most of the pressure experienced was psychological, not physical (not talking about the abuse of women, for which five points is simply not enough).
cult of confession
The organisation gets people to confess their sins or evils, in order for them to be cleansed. These confessions can be used against them later. Some group leaders also confess in public in order to look more human and to put the organisation more to their level.
0 pts ) No aspect of confession is involved. There is nothing to be "purified" or "cleansed" of, there is no higher state to be attained.
1 pt ) Some leaders will share their experiences and past troubles with the group in order to enforce the idea that "anyone can do it". No superior state of being or purification is proposed.
3 pts ) Confessions from members can be used against them in order to get them back in the fold, or keep them there. Leaders will share their experiences also. A superior state of being or purification is proposed (such as "being saved" or "being rich").
5 pts ) There is high confessional pressure, either to confess your sins regularily, or a constant bombardment of testimonies and confessions from leaders. An exhalted state of being is proposed (such as holiness, super-beingness or blatant godhood).
"Confession of belief yields receipt of confession" does not apply here. It's not the same thing, by a long shot. Most of us were told that it wasn't necessary to confess our sins to anyone but God, but then you must consider those papers that Corps people had to write, the ones that did get trotted out for future use and manipulation. Because this happened to those who chose to rise up, and not to the average adherent, I gave this a 3 as well.
sacred science
The organisation's methods are perfect. Any fault lies with the person, not with the methods. Furthermore, testimonies and present successes demonstrate that the system works. One must have faith and go on.
0 pts ) There is open-mindedness and methods or doctrines are revised when necessary - no undue blame is placed on the person. No testimonies or success-bombing is used.
1 pt ) The system works : there are testimonies. People are confident in the success of the system because of them, despite lack of proof.
3 pts ) The system works : a large part of getting new members in relies on testimonies and demonstrations. Successful people are paraded and failures can be due to people not following the "system" or being too "critical". Hope and faith makes one more successful, therefore motivation is important.
5 pts ) The doctrine is presented as infallible, and any fault or bad happenings are strictly due to the people involved. Outrageous testimonies, constant reminder of other people's success. Members are pushed to continue so that problems will be soon resolved.
If ANYTHING gets a 5, this one does.
loading of the language
The organisation redefines words (especially emotionally-charged words) to suit its outlook in the world, and more importantly, the outlook it wants its members to have. The creation of new words or expressions also isolates the member from the outside world.
0 pts ) No words are created or redefined.
1 pt ) Some emotionally-charged words may be redefined to emphasize the outlook of the group. Some new words are created to aid comprehension of new or unusual concepts.
3 pts ) The group redefines and creates many words in order to isolate the members from "the others" (non-members) and to reorient his values as being those of the group.
5 pts ) A full-blown vocabulary replaces normal language and mentally entraps the member. It is difficult for the member to understand non-members after assimilating this vocabulary.
I'm torn between 3 and 5 on this one. If it had said "It is difficult for non-members to understand members," I'd have given it the 5. But I don't know anyone who had a problem understanding other people. Three seems more appropriate.
doctrine over person
The organisation asks its members to experience first before criticizing. These experiences shape a person's outlook and eventually the person acts like everyone else. His emotional well-being is dependant on being with the group.
0 pts ) Experience is not required to understand the group's doctrine or mechanisms. Emotional well-being is not dependant on being with the group (friendships may form, however).
1 pt ) "You can't really know unless you experience it". People without experience are told that their criticism is irrelevant.
3 pts ) Experience is part of what gives one status in the group. People who have experience fall into a pattern of thought or action. People without experience are told that their criticism is irrelevant. Members derive emotional benefits from being part of the group, which they would not get otherwise.
5 pts ) Knowledge is nothing - experience is everything. The more you accomplish in the group's standards, the more important you are. People without experience must be guided by any means possible higher up the hierarchy or must be tricked to stay as long as possible. The entire emotional well-being of the members is dependant on being in the group.
I've changed my mind on this one, leaping from 1 to 5. While the teaching was that experience does not give you status, the truth is the opposite. The nametag syndrome falls in here. Great believer? I don't believe you. Pray often? So what. Took the classes, went WOW, went Corps, met Wierwille... Geez, what a faithful man of God you must be!
Also count one point for each of the following characteristics that exist in the group :
Salvation : Group proposes a superior state of beingness or salvation.
Oh yeah.
Lovebombing : Group promotes displaying excess consideration or even affection towards a new recruit in order to give him a sense of belonging and keep him in the organisation.
Oh we love you love you love you... You know, the criticism of "love bombing" always ticked me off. What are they supposed to do, ignore you and make you feel unwelcome?
Cognitive dissonance : Contradictions are used in conditioning members to accept the group's doctrine or mechanisms. The act of accepting and rationalizing these contradictions is an important element of brainwashing.
I don't even know what this means. Can someone help me out here?
Charismatic leadership : Emphasis is placed on the leader or leaders. These leaders can issue commands or edicts obeyed without question. Worshipping and loyalty are paramount.
Not a hint of this in TWI. :huh:
Deception in recruiting : When one is involved in the group, lies and deceptions in the recruiting material are soon apparent.
This loses me on the word "soon." There's also no perspective: soon apparent to whom?
Exploitation: People work for virtually nothing, usually to the profit of the leaders.
This is NOT TRUE of TWI. People did not work for nothing! They worked for eternal rewards and five crowns at the gathering!
Separation from friends and family : People are invited to stop talking to friends or family who do not encourage their participation in the group.
This is a tough one. Never happened to me, but I can't deny that it happened to others. So, yes.
Non-critical thinking : Doubting questions about the mechanisms or doctrine of the group are deflected or rejected. Usually, one must experience or be a leader in order to "understand."
Dodge! Dodge, distract, evade! Dang, this sounds familiar. Of course, now and then, questions were, umm, what's the word I'm looking for, oh yeah, answered. But again, this is more yes than no.
Discrediting outside information : Any criticism from the outside is wrong. Only people on the inside really know what the doctrine or mechanisms are all about.
Score!
Loss of independent judgment : The person must rely on other people, usually people above him in the hierarchy, before making any kind of decision, even personal decisions.
The higher up you went, the more this was true. The longer you stayed in, the more this was true.
Fear of leaving : Group promotes the idea that leaving the group is a very bad decision, which may make the member's future life hellish (in religious doctrines, literally hellish).
Greasespots by midnight, anyone?
Sleep deprivation : Group forces its members to work unusually long hours. Sleep deprivation can also be used to help brainwashing.
I'll have to say that for the average member, no, sleep deprivation was not on the agenda. But for others? For the purpose of this scorecard, I'm not counting it.
Leader: "Do this (stupid a$$) thing and you will prosper!"
True Believer: (thinks--that sounds like a stupid A$$ thing to do, and will cause problems with my life.) "How will I prosper?"
Leader:"Do it, scum!"
All Other True Believers: "Do it, scum."
True Believer:"Yes, sir, I hear and obey!"
(True Believer does stupida$$ thing. He develops stupida$$ problems with his life as a result.)
Leader: "Now, aren't you blessed you did the right thing? You are such a stupida$$--look at your life in shambles! You must do more of what I tell you! Think how awful your life could be without my counsel!"
True Believer:"Yes, I am a stupid a$$. Thank you for all you do for me. Where would my life be without you? We would be dead in the streets." (thinks-- It looked like a stupid a$$ thing. Now I have stupid a$$ results. It must be my scum nature.Why can't I get it right! I'll try harder!)
Leader:"Yes, you owe it all to me."
Years later, light dawns.
Ex True Believer:"That was a totally stupida$$ thing to do! DUH"
Charismatic leadership : Emphasis is placed on the leader or leaders. These leaders can issue commands or edicts obeyed without question. Worshipping and loyalty are paramount.
This is one of the terms/qualifications I have trouble with, especially in reference to associating it with 'mind control'.
Changing the meaning/usage of words in and of itself does nothing, nada, ziltch, when it comes to controlling someone's thoughts, particularly since different cultural groups change the meaning of words all the time, most of the time in a rather subtle manner. But to try to show that the changing of terms a method of controlling one's mind proves nothing in that category, unless it is accompanied with brow beating and the intense insistance to use those words ONLY how the group expects. And when I was in, yes, they wanted words to be used 'according to the Word' yadayada', but that didn't really stop folks from saying things like 'Merry Christmas' or 'good luck' or things like that. That was frowned on and people were 'reproved', but that was as far as it went as far as I could see. Now maybe it got more intense later.
But the thing about 'loading the language' as far as a clear indicator of 'cultic mind control', frankly, I could see no clear evidence where that actually happened.
And I find it interesting that the anti-cult movement does their own form of 'loading of the language' in how they appropriated the term cult and hyped it up to fit their own purposes, as the term used to be a lot more neutral before. ^_^
Milieu Control: members are pressured to conform to the group’s ways
can you say, "believers" and "unbelievers"?
can you say, “the household of the way”?
can you say, "mark and avoid"?
Cult of Confession: leaders draw you into admissions which are then used against you
can you say, “VP and Me”?
can you say, “check up from the neck up”?
can you say, “spiritual suspicion”?
can you say, “purging the household”?
Sacred Science: if the methods don’t work for you, YOU are the problem
can you say, "believing equals receiving"?
can you say, "renew your mind"?
can you say, "God honors conditions, not people”?
can you say, “take your foot off the hose”?
can you say, “out of fellowship”?
can you say, “broken principle”?
Language Loading: jargon is used to change your world view to that of the group
can you say, “Word over the World”?
can you say, “WOW, the Rock, Headquarters”?
can you say, “HoHoReLo”?
can you say, “present truth”?
Doctrine over Person: only your experience within the group gains you status and benefits
can you say, “you gotta go to grow”?
can you say, “Adv. Class grad, twig coordinator, way corps, clergy”?
can you say, “nametags”?
can you say, “a man’s gifts make room for him”?
Salvation: the group places itself on a level higher than any other group
can you say, “The Word is the Ministry, and the Ministry is the Word”?
can you say, “the Word like it hasn’t been taught since the first century”?
can you say, “research, teaching and fellowship ministry”?
can you say, “the man of god for our day and time”?
Love-Bombing: new people are treated specially in order to entice them into the group
can you say, “God Bless, you are the BEST!”?
can you say, “greet them with a holy kiss”?
Cognitive dissonance: there is a contradiction between what is said and what is done, but you are conditioned to stop questioning or even noticing this difference
can you say, “hold it in abeyance”?
can you say, “renew your mind”?
can you say, “fear is the sand in the machinery of life”?
Charismatic Leadership: the leadership is revered and is to be obeyed without question
can you say, “Victor Paul Wierwille”?
can you say, “Loy Craig Martindale”?
can you say, “the Loyalty letter”?
can you say, “A leader’s suggestion is tantamount to a command”?
Deception in Recruiting: once you are in the group, you realize some of the promises they made were bogus
can you say, “ten years growth in one year”?
can you say, “in-depth spiritual perception and awareness”?
can you say, “more harmony in the home”?
Exploitation: people work for next to nothing, to the benefit of the leadership; and associations with outside family and friends are discouraged
can you say, “way corps work program”?
can you say, “God first, others second, self last”?
can you say, “paid on a need-basis”?
can you say, “plurality living”?
can you say, “I have no friends when it comes to the Word”?
Non-Critical Thinking: questions about the doctrines or actions of the group are answered with the implication that the questioner simply doesn’t “understand”, and all outside sources of information are ridiculed or banned
can you say, “foundational, intermediate, and advanced classes”?
can you say, “spiritually mature”?
can you say, “stay off the internet”?
can you say, “teaching schedules”?
can you say, “receive, retain, release”?
can you say, “the truth needs no defense”?
Loss of independent Judgment: members must get leadership approval for all decisions great and small; and disobeying or leaving the group is discouraged by predicting disastrous consequences
can you say, “plan the adversary out of your life”?
can you say, “weekly schedules and vacation itineraries”?
can you say, “there’s wisdom in a multitude of counselors”?
can you say, “go two-by-two”?
can you say, “grease-spot by midnight”?
Sleep Deprivation: members are deprived of sleep to make them more compliant
I'm reading "Why People Believe Wierd Things" by the guy who founded Skeptic Magazine and the website (YES - I'm THAT slow of a reader! :blink: )
Anyway - I keep meaning to post his definition of a cult but once again, left my book at home. I'll try to post it tonight before the goblins come out. It's a different look at the definition and structure of one.
I totally agree with the cognitive dissonance that WW brought up. I've actually talked about said contradictions in our lives with him and, amazing as it sounds, he didn't see it when we talked about it, but mentioned it off the cuff so many times - like when we were shopping for a car. He'd say, "Man, it sure would be nice to be able to buy a car that isn't ten years old!" But we're living the "more abundant life" ya know? :huh:
The organisation controls its people by group pressure or geographical isolation.
0 pts ) The system is open : there is no pressure to adhere, to stay in the group, or isolation from the rest of society.
1 pt ) There is some pressure in doing as the group says, but no physical coercion.
3 pts ) There is a lot of peer pressure to stay in the group and do as the group says. There may be some light physical coercion.
5 pts ) There is tremendous and constant pressure from other members to act and think like the group does. Deviating from the norm is seen as an abnormality which must be dealt with swiftly. The group is physically isolated.
I gave them a 5.
cult of confession
The organisation gets people to confess their sins or evils, in order for them to be cleansed. These confessions can be used against them later. Some group leaders also confess in public in order to look more human and to put the organisation more to their level.
0 pts ) No aspect of confession is involved. There is nothing to be "purified" or "cleansed" of, there is no higher state to be attained.
1 pt ) Some leaders will share their experiences and past troubles with the group in order to enforce the idea that "anyone can do it". No superior state of being or purification is proposed.
3 pts ) Confessions from members can be used against them in order to get them back in the fold, or keep them there. Leaders will share their experiences also. A superior state of being or purification is proposed (such as "being saved" or "being rich").
5 pts ) There is high confessional pressure, either to confess your sins regularily, or a constant bombardment of testimonies and confessions from leaders. An exhalted state of being is proposed (such as holiness, super-beingness or blatant godhood).
I gave a 5 here too, thinking of the *public confessions* made by Don, Craig, and Howard back in 1986. The remnant left here in Minney-soda were into publically confessing *sins* at the time, as well
sacred science
The organisation's methods are perfect. Any fault lies with the person, not with the methods. Furthermore, testimonies and present successes demonstrate that the system works. One must have faith and go on.
0 pts ) There is open-mindedness and methods or doctrines are revised when necessary - no undue blame is placed on the person. No testimonies or success-bombing is used.
1 pt ) The system works : there are testimonies. People are confident in the success of the system because of them, despite lack of proof.
3 pts ) The system works : a large part of getting new members in relies on testimonies and demonstrations. Successful people are paraded and failures can be due to people not following the "system" or being too "critical". Hope and faith makes one more successful, therefore motivation is important.
5 pts ) The doctrine is presented as infallible, and any fault or bad happenings are strictly due to the people involved. Outrageous testimonies, constant reminder of other people's success. Members are pushed to continue so that problems will be soon resolved.
Believing equals receiving. Nuff said. Another 5 points.
loading of the language
The organisation redefines words (especially emotionally-charged words) to suit its outlook in the world, and more importantly, the outlook it wants its members to have. The creation of new words or expressions also isolates the member from the outside world.
0 pts ) New words are created or redefined.
1 pt ) Some emotionally-charged words may be redefined to emphasize the outlook of the group. Some new words are created to aid comprehension of new or unusual concepts.
3 pts ) The group redefines and creates many words in order to isolate the members from "the others" (non-members) and to reorient his values as being those of the group.
5 pts ) A full-blown vocabulary replaces normal language and mentally entraps the member. It is difficult for the member to understand non-members after assimilating this vocabulary.
The Highway hit the nail on the head. Another 5 points.
doctrine over person
The organisation asks its members to experience first before criticizing. These experiences shape a person's outlook and eventually the person acts like everyone else. His emotional well-being is dependant on being with the group.
0 pts ) Experience is not required to understand the group's doctrine or mechanisms. Emotional well-being is not dependant on being with the group (friendships may form, however).
1 pt ) "You can't really know unless you experience it". People without experience are told that their criticism is irrelevant.
3 pts ) Experience is part of what gives one status in the group. People who have experience fall into a pattern of thought or action. People without experience are told that their criticism is irrelevant. Members derive emotional benefits from being part of the group, which they would not get otherwise.
5 pts ) Knowledge is nothing - experience is everything. The more you accomplish in the group's standards, the more important you are. People without experience must be guided by any means possible higher up the hierarchy or must be tricked to stay as long as possible. The entire emotional well-being of the members is dependant on being in the group.
If #5 were changed to Knowledge is gained by experience, I could agree more completely. In my time -- you had status by the color of your name tag. You had status if you had taken *X* amount of classes. You had status if you heard docvic teach a class live, instead of by tape, or video. The last sentence:
"The entire emotional well-being of the members is dependant on being in the group" gives me reason to rate it another 5 points.
Also count one point for each of the following characteristics that exist in the group :
Salvation : Group proposes a superior state of beingness or salvation.
Lovebombing : Group promotes displaying excess consideration or even affection towards a new recruit in order to give him a sense of belonging and keep him in the organisation.
Cognitive dissonance : Contradictions are used in conditioning members to accept the group's doctrine or mechanisms. The act of accepting and rationalizing these contradictions is an important element of brainwashing.
Charismatic leadership : Emphasis is placed on the leader or leaders. These leaders can issue commands or edicts obeyed without question. Worshipping and loyalty are paramount.
Deception in recruiting : When one is involved in the group, lies and deceptions in the recruiting material are soon apparent.
Exploitation : People work for virtually nothing, usually to the profit of the leaders.
Separation from friends and family : People are invited to stop talking to friends or family who do not encourage their participation in the group.
Non-critical thinking : Doubting questions about the mechanisms or doctrine of the group are deflected or rejected. Usually, one must experience or be a leader in order to "understand".
Discrediting outside information : Any criticism from the outside is wrong. Only people on the inside really know what the doctrine or mechanisms are all about.
Loss of independant judgment : The person must rely on other people, usually people above him in the hierarchy, before making any kind of decision, even personal decisions.
Fear of leaving : Group promotes the idea that leaving the group is a very bad decision, which may make the member's future life hellish (in religious doctrines, literally hellish).
Sleep deprivation : Group forces its members to work unusually long hours. Sleep deprivation can also be used to help brainwashing.
I accept 10 of this last group, so my final score is now 35.
The Highway hit the nail on the head. Another 5 points.
Okay, wait a minute on this, guys. Yes, the TWI experience made it difficult for others to understand us. But how many people do you know had difficulty understanding other people because of "loaded" language? I think there's a big difference here.
Okay, wait a minute on this, guys. Yes, the TWI experience made it difficult for others to understand us. But how many people do you know had difficulty understanding other people because of "loaded" language? I think there's a big difference here.
Not really, Raf. When I was in my *witnessing days*, I did have to explain what I meant by certain words. Some of the stuff I came up with was absolutely unrecognizeable (as I/twi meant it) to the person I was talking to.
I've been itching all day for the time to sit down to this thread! :)
Okay here goes . . . . . .Oh and for clarities sake I was in for all of the 1990's and left near the end of 2000
The organisation controls its people by group pressure or geographical isolation.
0 pts ) The system is open : there is no pressure to adhere, to stay in the group, or isolation from the rest of society.
1 pt ) There is some pressure in doing as the group says, but no physical coercion.
3 pts ) There is a lot of peer pressure to stay in the group and do as the group says. There may be some light physical coercion.
5 pts ) There is tremendous and constant pressure from other members to act and think like the group does. Deviating from the norm is seen as an abnormality which must be dealt with swiftly. The group is physically isolated.
5 points. By the time I left I had no friends outside of TWI. I was home 24/7 except for fellowship and necssary errands such as shopping (which was a two by two excursion)
cult of confession
The organisation gets people to confess their sins or evils, in order for them to be cleansed. These confessions can be used against them later. Some group leaders also confess in public in order to look more human and to put the organisation more to their level.
0 pts ) No aspect of confession is involved. There is nothing to be "purified" or "cleansed" of, there is no higher state to be attained.
1 pt ) Some leaders will share their experiences and past troubles with the group in order to enforce the idea that "anyone can do it". No superior state of being or purification is proposed.
3 pts ) Confessions from members can be used against them in order to get them back in the fold, or keep them there. Leaders will share their experiences also. A superior state of being or purification is proposed (such as "being saved" or "being rich").
5 pts ) There is high confessional pressure, either to confess your sins regularily, or a constant bombardment of testimonies and confessions from leaders. An exhalted state of being is proposed (such as holiness, super-beingness or blatant godhood).
I think I'd go 4 points here. We weren't always pressured to confess our own sins, but we were expected to rat out those around us.
sacred science
The organisation's methods are perfect. Any fault lies with the person, not with the methods. Furthermore, testimonies and present successes demonstrate that the system works. One must have faith and go on.
0 pts ) There is open-mindedness and methods or doctrines are revised when necessary - no undue blame is placed on the person. No testimonies or success-bombing is used.
1 pt ) The system works : there are testimonies. People are confident in the success of the system because of them, despite lack of proof.
3 pts ) The system works : a large part of getting new members in relies on testimonies and demonstrations. Successful people are paraded and failures can be due to people not following the "system" or being too "critical". Hope and faith makes one more successful, therefore motivation is important.
5 pts ) The doctrine is presented as infallible, and any fault or bad happenings are strictly due to the people involved. Outrageous testimonies, constant reminder of other people's success. Members are pushed to continue so that problems will be soon resolved.
5 points easily. Anything we saw as a contradiction was brushed off at best as an error in our understanding.
loading of the language
The organisation redefines words (especially emotionally-charged words) to suit its outlook in the world, and more importantly, the outlook it wants its members to have. The creation of new words or expressions also isolates the member from the outside world.
0 pts ) New words are created or redefined.
1 pt ) Some emotionally-charged words may be redefined to emphasize the outlook of the group. Some new words are created to aid comprehension of new or unusual concepts.
3 pts ) The group redefines and creates many words in order to isolate the members from "the others" (non-members) and to reorient his values as being those of the group.
5 pts ) A full-blown vocabulary replaces normal language and mentally entraps the member. It is difficult for the member to understand non-members after assimilating this vocabulary.
I'd say 3 here. Certainly some loading, but not a complete replacement
doctrine over person
The organisation asks its members to experience first before criticizing. These experiences shape a person's outlook and eventually the person acts like everyone else. His emotional well-being is dependant on being with the group.
0 pts ) Experience is not required to understand the group's doctrine or mechanisms. Emotional well-being is not dependant on being with the group (friendships may form, however).
1 pt ) "You can't really know unless you experience it". People without experience are told that their criticism is irrelevant.
3 pts ) Experience is part of what gives one status in the group. People who have experience fall into a pattern of thought or action. People without experience are told that their criticism is irrelevant. Members derive emotional benefits from being part of the group, which they would not get otherwise.
5 pts ) Knowledge is nothing - experience is everything. The more you accomplish in the group's standards, the more important you are. People without experience must be guided by any means possible higher up the hierarchy or must be tricked to stay as long as possible. The entire emotional well-being of the members is dependant on being in the group.
This one is tough - cause with them it was knowledge that was everything and experience meant little. BUT we were told that we had to DO before we could know. I'm thinking I would go with a 3 here.
Also count one point for each of the following characteristics that exist in the group :
Salvation : Group proposes a superior state of beingness or salvation.
Absolutely - the one and only household of god and all
Lovebombing : Group promotes displaying excess consideration or even affection towards a new recruit in order to give him a sense of belonging and keep him in the organisation.
Another absolute! Get people while they are weak (find their need) and build them up (and meet it)
Cognitive dissonance : Contradictions are used in conditioning members to accept the group's doctrine or mechanisms. The act of accepting and rationalizing these contradictions is an important element of brainwashing.
Too many examples to quote them all.
Charismatic leadership : Emphasis is placed on the leader or leaders. These leaders can issue commands or edicts obeyed without question. Worshipping and loyalty are paramount.
Definitely
Deception in recruiting : When one is involved in the group, lies and deceptions in the recruiting material are soon apparent.
I'm not sure this one qualifies. At least on the lower level of average twiggies, I don't think we intentionally deceived. And upper level didn't really witness.
Exploitation : People work for virtually nothing, usually to the profit of the leaders.
Yup
Separation from friends and family : People are invited to stop talking to friends or family who do not encourage their participation in the group.
Again an absolute. I can't count how many rounds I went over my family ties.
Non-critical thinking : Doubting questions about the mechanisms or doctrine of the group are deflected or rejected. Usually, one must experience or be a leader in order to "understand".
Again yes
Discrediting outside information : Any criticism from the outside is wrong. Only people on the inside really know what the doctrine or mechanisms are all about.
yup
Loss of independant judgment : The person must rely on other people, usually people above him in the hierarchy, before making any kind of decision, even personal decisions.
Yup - better check those decisions out with leadership first
Fear of leaving : Group promotes the idea that leaving the group is a very bad decision, which may make the member's future life hellish (in religious doctrines, literally hellish).
Absolutely - I had panic attacks for six months after I left
Sleep deprivation : Group forces its members to work unusually long hours. Sleep deprivation can also be used to help brainwashing.
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Raf
I onl gave it 22. Some of the items mentioned are only applicable if you try to climb the ladder, and don't apply at all to the average person just a showin up. So "sleep deprivation" may have applied to some people, but not the majority. Same with confessions.
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Nato
My evaluation comes in at about 25.
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mstar1
I gave it about a 36
in regards to confession
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Nato
I think it would be cool if someone took this test and did it WordWolf style. Could list each questions here in this thread, and then write their rating and why, including any evidence or testimony. I bet each post would be very interesting.
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Raf
Okay, let's try it. My comments are in regular text. Their comments are in bold.
What makes a cult ?
What makes a "cult" ? In a sense, any organisation can be called a cult, or not called a cult. This is very convenient for fear-mongers. It is also convenient for cultists.
Cultism is, in fact, a gradient. Any organisation which shares a common goal will exhibit a slight degree of cultism. This is perfectly normal. The problems come in when an organisation is heavily cultist : in that case, we call it a cult.
Such a measure is relative, of course. We therefore need some kind of objective measure in order to locate where an organisation is on this gradient. I'd like to propose a scoring system based on "Thought Reform And The Psychology Of Totalism", by Robert Lifton, which lists the five main characteristics of cultism, and other points proposed by John Hoagland.
If an organisation has 5 points or more, then it may be a cult, or may be susceptible to become a cult. It you accumulate more than 10 points, then it is definitively in a cult. Mainstream religions are mostly located between 5 and 10 points, and "normal" organisations below 5 points.
You may of course put down half-points or points between two choices also. This is by no means an absolute standard.
Good: Just so that we're all clear. Because the thought that 5, 10 or more is a "cult" is clearly the standard of an atheist, IMO.
milieu control
The organisation controls its people by group pressure or geographical isolation.
0 pts ) The system is open : there is no pressure to adhere, to stay in the group, or isolation from the rest of society.
1 pt ) There is some pressure in doing as the group says, but no physical coercion.
3 pts ) There is a lot of peer pressure to stay in the group and do as the group says. There may be some light physical coercion.
5 pts ) There is tremendous and constant pressure from other members to act and think like the group does. Deviating from the norm is seen as an abnormality which must be dealt with swiftly. The group is physically isolated.
I scored three points on this one, because most of the pressure experienced was psychological, not physical (not talking about the abuse of women, for which five points is simply not enough).
cult of confession
The organisation gets people to confess their sins or evils, in order for them to be cleansed. These confessions can be used against them later. Some group leaders also confess in public in order to look more human and to put the organisation more to their level.
0 pts ) No aspect of confession is involved. There is nothing to be "purified" or "cleansed" of, there is no higher state to be attained.
1 pt ) Some leaders will share their experiences and past troubles with the group in order to enforce the idea that "anyone can do it". No superior state of being or purification is proposed.
3 pts ) Confessions from members can be used against them in order to get them back in the fold, or keep them there. Leaders will share their experiences also. A superior state of being or purification is proposed (such as "being saved" or "being rich").
5 pts ) There is high confessional pressure, either to confess your sins regularily, or a constant bombardment of testimonies and confessions from leaders. An exhalted state of being is proposed (such as holiness, super-beingness or blatant godhood).
"Confession of belief yields receipt of confession" does not apply here. It's not the same thing, by a long shot. Most of us were told that it wasn't necessary to confess our sins to anyone but God, but then you must consider those papers that Corps people had to write, the ones that did get trotted out for future use and manipulation. Because this happened to those who chose to rise up, and not to the average adherent, I gave this a 3 as well.
sacred science
The organisation's methods are perfect. Any fault lies with the person, not with the methods. Furthermore, testimonies and present successes demonstrate that the system works. One must have faith and go on.
0 pts ) There is open-mindedness and methods or doctrines are revised when necessary - no undue blame is placed on the person. No testimonies or success-bombing is used.
1 pt ) The system works : there are testimonies. People are confident in the success of the system because of them, despite lack of proof.
3 pts ) The system works : a large part of getting new members in relies on testimonies and demonstrations. Successful people are paraded and failures can be due to people not following the "system" or being too "critical". Hope and faith makes one more successful, therefore motivation is important.
5 pts ) The doctrine is presented as infallible, and any fault or bad happenings are strictly due to the people involved. Outrageous testimonies, constant reminder of other people's success. Members are pushed to continue so that problems will be soon resolved.
If ANYTHING gets a 5, this one does.
loading of the language
The organisation redefines words (especially emotionally-charged words) to suit its outlook in the world, and more importantly, the outlook it wants its members to have. The creation of new words or expressions also isolates the member from the outside world.
0 pts ) No words are created or redefined.
1 pt ) Some emotionally-charged words may be redefined to emphasize the outlook of the group. Some new words are created to aid comprehension of new or unusual concepts.
3 pts ) The group redefines and creates many words in order to isolate the members from "the others" (non-members) and to reorient his values as being those of the group.
5 pts ) A full-blown vocabulary replaces normal language and mentally entraps the member. It is difficult for the member to understand non-members after assimilating this vocabulary.
I'm torn between 3 and 5 on this one. If it had said "It is difficult for non-members to understand members," I'd have given it the 5. But I don't know anyone who had a problem understanding other people. Three seems more appropriate.
doctrine over person
The organisation asks its members to experience first before criticizing. These experiences shape a person's outlook and eventually the person acts like everyone else. His emotional well-being is dependant on being with the group.
0 pts ) Experience is not required to understand the group's doctrine or mechanisms. Emotional well-being is not dependant on being with the group (friendships may form, however).
1 pt ) "You can't really know unless you experience it". People without experience are told that their criticism is irrelevant.
3 pts ) Experience is part of what gives one status in the group. People who have experience fall into a pattern of thought or action. People without experience are told that their criticism is irrelevant. Members derive emotional benefits from being part of the group, which they would not get otherwise.
5 pts ) Knowledge is nothing - experience is everything. The more you accomplish in the group's standards, the more important you are. People without experience must be guided by any means possible higher up the hierarchy or must be tricked to stay as long as possible. The entire emotional well-being of the members is dependant on being in the group.
I've changed my mind on this one, leaping from 1 to 5. While the teaching was that experience does not give you status, the truth is the opposite. The nametag syndrome falls in here. Great believer? I don't believe you. Pray often? So what. Took the classes, went WOW, went Corps, met Wierwille... Geez, what a faithful man of God you must be!
Also count one point for each of the following characteristics that exist in the group :
Salvation : Group proposes a superior state of beingness or salvation.
Oh yeah.
Lovebombing : Group promotes displaying excess consideration or even affection towards a new recruit in order to give him a sense of belonging and keep him in the organisation.
Oh we love you love you love you... You know, the criticism of "love bombing" always ticked me off. What are they supposed to do, ignore you and make you feel unwelcome?
Cognitive dissonance : Contradictions are used in conditioning members to accept the group's doctrine or mechanisms. The act of accepting and rationalizing these contradictions is an important element of brainwashing.
I don't even know what this means. Can someone help me out here?
Charismatic leadership : Emphasis is placed on the leader or leaders. These leaders can issue commands or edicts obeyed without question. Worshipping and loyalty are paramount.
Not a hint of this in TWI. :huh:
Deception in recruiting : When one is involved in the group, lies and deceptions in the recruiting material are soon apparent.
This loses me on the word "soon." There's also no perspective: soon apparent to whom?
Exploitation: People work for virtually nothing, usually to the profit of the leaders.
This is NOT TRUE of TWI. People did not work for nothing! They worked for eternal rewards and five crowns at the gathering!
Separation from friends and family : People are invited to stop talking to friends or family who do not encourage their participation in the group.
This is a tough one. Never happened to me, but I can't deny that it happened to others. So, yes.
Non-critical thinking : Doubting questions about the mechanisms or doctrine of the group are deflected or rejected. Usually, one must experience or be a leader in order to "understand."
Dodge! Dodge, distract, evade! Dang, this sounds familiar. Of course, now and then, questions were, umm, what's the word I'm looking for, oh yeah, answered. But again, this is more yes than no.
Discrediting outside information : Any criticism from the outside is wrong. Only people on the inside really know what the doctrine or mechanisms are all about.
Score!
Loss of independent judgment : The person must rely on other people, usually people above him in the hierarchy, before making any kind of decision, even personal decisions.
The higher up you went, the more this was true. The longer you stayed in, the more this was true.
Fear of leaving : Group promotes the idea that leaving the group is a very bad decision, which may make the member's future life hellish (in religious doctrines, literally hellish).
Greasespots by midnight, anyone?
Sleep deprivation : Group forces its members to work unusually long hours. Sleep deprivation can also be used to help brainwashing.
I'll have to say that for the average member, no, sleep deprivation was not on the agenda. But for others? For the purpose of this scorecard, I'm not counting it.
And this brings my grand total to... 27.
I must have miscounted earlier.
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Nato
Thanks Raf! That's generally how I scored it also.
And the cognitive dissonance lost me. But since I'm sure that whatever the heck it's talking about happened to someone, I gave it a half-point. :)
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MadeItThrough
Hmmm...on the Richter Scale? No less that 8.5!!!
It has to be at 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 % U.S. Bonified Classic CULT...ick!
Creeps
Utilizing
Lies &
Truth
Oh, now I understand the measuring system. Thank you for your detailed post on measuring Cultism. I too have to agree with a 36 rating.
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Bramble
Cognitive dissonace:
Leader: "Do this (stupid a$$) thing and you will prosper!"
True Believer: (thinks--that sounds like a stupid A$$ thing to do, and will cause problems with my life.) "How will I prosper?"
Leader:"Do it, scum!"
All Other True Believers: "Do it, scum."
True Believer:"Yes, sir, I hear and obey!"
(True Believer does stupida$$ thing. He develops stupida$$ problems with his life as a result.)
Leader: "Now, aren't you blessed you did the right thing? You are such a stupida$$--look at your life in shambles! You must do more of what I tell you! Think how awful your life could be without my counsel!"
True Believer:"Yes, I am a stupid a$$. Thank you for all you do for me. Where would my life be without you? We would be dead in the streets." (thinks-- It looked like a stupid a$$ thing. Now I have stupid a$$ results. It must be my scum nature.Why can't I get it right! I'll try harder!)
Leader:"Yes, you owe it all to me."
Years later, light dawns.
Ex True Believer:"That was a totally stupida$$ thing to do! DUH"
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penguin
Raf, surely this was sarcasm, right?
I gave twi a modest 27
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GarthP2000
This is one of the terms/qualifications I have trouble with, especially in reference to associating it with 'mind control'.
Changing the meaning/usage of words in and of itself does nothing, nada, ziltch, when it comes to controlling someone's thoughts, particularly since different cultural groups change the meaning of words all the time, most of the time in a rather subtle manner. But to try to show that the changing of terms a method of controlling one's mind proves nothing in that category, unless it is accompanied with brow beating and the intense insistance to use those words ONLY how the group expects. And when I was in, yes, they wanted words to be used 'according to the Word' yadayada', but that didn't really stop folks from saying things like 'Merry Christmas' or 'good luck' or things like that. That was frowned on and people were 'reproved', but that was as far as it went as far as I could see. Now maybe it got more intense later.
But the thing about 'loading the language' as far as a clear indicator of 'cultic mind control', frankly, I could see no clear evidence where that actually happened.
And I find it interesting that the anti-cult movement does their own form of 'loading of the language' in how they appropriated the term cult and hyped it up to fit their own purposes, as the term used to be a lot more neutral before. ^_^
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Vyctorya911
25 points here
Vyctorya
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Raf
Penguin,
Yes, that was sarcasm.
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WordWolf
Cognitive dissonance:
that's when you're required to hold internal contradictions in your brain.
"You believe as much as you want to live!"
"The mog believes more than any human who shakes the earth!"
"The mog died very young."
"wows are sent to locations determined by divine revelation!"
"many sites were stupid choices determined by a coin-flip."
"corps are top leaders by the world's standards!"
"Anyone with the money is allowed in the corps and put in leadership positions."
"we will teach you how to prosper!"
"you will survive off mac & cheese, wear hand-me-downs, and drive a beater."
"Leadership are most holy people!"
"Leadership use filthy language freely in large groups, and rape the followers."
"This is a books on keys, not Genesis to Revelation."
"This book replaces Genesis to Revelation!"
Those are contradictory.
Holding both in your mind produces a jarring note.
That's "cognitive dissonance".
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Ham
I "only" gave it thirty-six..
of course, I may have been in later than some others here..
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TheHighWay
Mr. Rogers visits The Way International...
Milieu Control: members are pressured to conform to the group’s ways
can you say, "believers" and "unbelievers"?
can you say, “the household of the way”?
can you say, "mark and avoid"?
Cult of Confession: leaders draw you into admissions which are then used against you
can you say, “VP and Me”?
can you say, “check up from the neck up”?
can you say, “spiritual suspicion”?
can you say, “purging the household”?
Sacred Science: if the methods don’t work for you, YOU are the problem
can you say, "believing equals receiving"?
can you say, "renew your mind"?
can you say, "God honors conditions, not people”?
can you say, “take your foot off the hose”?
can you say, “out of fellowship”?
can you say, “broken principle”?
Language Loading: jargon is used to change your world view to that of the group
can you say, “Word over the World”?
can you say, “WOW, the Rock, Headquarters”?
can you say, “HoHoReLo”?
can you say, “present truth”?
Doctrine over Person: only your experience within the group gains you status and benefits
can you say, “you gotta go to grow”?
can you say, “Adv. Class grad, twig coordinator, way corps, clergy”?
can you say, “nametags”?
can you say, “a man’s gifts make room for him”?
Salvation: the group places itself on a level higher than any other group
can you say, “The Word is the Ministry, and the Ministry is the Word”?
can you say, “the Word like it hasn’t been taught since the first century”?
can you say, “research, teaching and fellowship ministry”?
can you say, “the man of god for our day and time”?
Love-Bombing: new people are treated specially in order to entice them into the group
can you say, “God Bless, you are the BEST!”?
can you say, “greet them with a holy kiss”?
Cognitive dissonance: there is a contradiction between what is said and what is done, but you are conditioned to stop questioning or even noticing this difference
can you say, “hold it in abeyance”?
can you say, “renew your mind”?
can you say, “fear is the sand in the machinery of life”?
Charismatic Leadership: the leadership is revered and is to be obeyed without question
can you say, “Victor Paul Wierwille”?
can you say, “Loy Craig Martindale”?
can you say, “the Loyalty letter”?
can you say, “A leader’s suggestion is tantamount to a command”?
Deception in Recruiting: once you are in the group, you realize some of the promises they made were bogus
can you say, “ten years growth in one year”?
can you say, “in-depth spiritual perception and awareness”?
can you say, “more harmony in the home”?
Exploitation: people work for next to nothing, to the benefit of the leadership; and associations with outside family and friends are discouraged
can you say, “way corps work program”?
can you say, “God first, others second, self last”?
can you say, “paid on a need-basis”?
can you say, “plurality living”?
can you say, “I have no friends when it comes to the Word”?
Non-Critical Thinking: questions about the doctrines or actions of the group are answered with the implication that the questioner simply doesn’t “understand”, and all outside sources of information are ridiculed or banned
can you say, “foundational, intermediate, and advanced classes”?
can you say, “spiritually mature”?
can you say, “stay off the internet”?
can you say, “teaching schedules”?
can you say, “receive, retain, release”?
can you say, “the truth needs no defense”?
Loss of independent Judgment: members must get leadership approval for all decisions great and small; and disobeying or leaving the group is discouraged by predicting disastrous consequences
can you say, “plan the adversary out of your life”?
can you say, “weekly schedules and vacation itineraries”?
can you say, “there’s wisdom in a multitude of counselors”?
can you say, “go two-by-two”?
can you say, “grease-spot by midnight”?
Sleep Deprivation: members are deprived of sleep to make them more compliant
can you say, “bless patrol”?
can you say, “set up crew”?
can you say, “way corps training”?
Sure.... I knew you could.
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Belle
I'm reading "Why People Believe Wierd Things" by the guy who founded Skeptic Magazine and the website (YES - I'm THAT slow of a reader! :blink: )
Anyway - I keep meaning to post his definition of a cult but once again, left my book at home. I'll try to post it tonight before the goblins come out. It's a different look at the definition and structure of one.
I totally agree with the cognitive dissonance that WW brought up. I've actually talked about said contradictions in our lives with him and, amazing as it sounds, he didn't see it when we talked about it, but mentioned it off the cuff so many times - like when we were shopping for a car. He'd say, "Man, it sure would be nice to be able to buy a car that isn't ten years old!"
But we're living the "more abundant life" ya know? :huh:
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WordWolf
Oh, and one of the more striking pieces of "cognitive dissonance":
"the CFS class says a guy isn't supposed to 'help himself' to a woman."
(Explanation of I Corinthians 7:1.)
"Husbands and wives should look to each other for 'satisfaction' in
that sense." (Explanation of I Corinthians 7:2.)
vs.
"If you're spiritual enough, you can have sex with someone other
than your spouse and just keep that information 'lockbox'."
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Raf
Ok. 28, then.
Yes, Regis, that's my final answer.
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dmiller
milieu control
The organisation controls its people by group pressure or geographical isolation.
0 pts ) The system is open : there is no pressure to adhere, to stay in the group, or isolation from the rest of society.
1 pt ) There is some pressure in doing as the group says, but no physical coercion.
3 pts ) There is a lot of peer pressure to stay in the group and do as the group says. There may be some light physical coercion.
5 pts ) There is tremendous and constant pressure from other members to act and think like the group does. Deviating from the norm is seen as an abnormality which must be dealt with swiftly. The group is physically isolated.
I gave them a 5.
cult of confession
The organisation gets people to confess their sins or evils, in order for them to be cleansed. These confessions can be used against them later. Some group leaders also confess in public in order to look more human and to put the organisation more to their level.
0 pts ) No aspect of confession is involved. There is nothing to be "purified" or "cleansed" of, there is no higher state to be attained.
1 pt ) Some leaders will share their experiences and past troubles with the group in order to enforce the idea that "anyone can do it". No superior state of being or purification is proposed.
3 pts ) Confessions from members can be used against them in order to get them back in the fold, or keep them there. Leaders will share their experiences also. A superior state of being or purification is proposed (such as "being saved" or "being rich").
5 pts ) There is high confessional pressure, either to confess your sins regularily, or a constant bombardment of testimonies and confessions from leaders. An exhalted state of being is proposed (such as holiness, super-beingness or blatant godhood).
I gave a 5 here too, thinking of the *public confessions* made by Don, Craig, and Howard back in 1986. The remnant left here in Minney-soda were into publically confessing *sins* at the time, as well
sacred science
The organisation's methods are perfect. Any fault lies with the person, not with the methods. Furthermore, testimonies and present successes demonstrate that the system works. One must have faith and go on.
0 pts ) There is open-mindedness and methods or doctrines are revised when necessary - no undue blame is placed on the person. No testimonies or success-bombing is used.
1 pt ) The system works : there are testimonies. People are confident in the success of the system because of them, despite lack of proof.
3 pts ) The system works : a large part of getting new members in relies on testimonies and demonstrations. Successful people are paraded and failures can be due to people not following the "system" or being too "critical". Hope and faith makes one more successful, therefore motivation is important.
5 pts ) The doctrine is presented as infallible, and any fault or bad happenings are strictly due to the people involved. Outrageous testimonies, constant reminder of other people's success. Members are pushed to continue so that problems will be soon resolved.
Believing equals receiving. Nuff said. Another 5 points.
loading of the language
The organisation redefines words (especially emotionally-charged words) to suit its outlook in the world, and more importantly, the outlook it wants its members to have. The creation of new words or expressions also isolates the member from the outside world.
0 pts ) New words are created or redefined.
1 pt ) Some emotionally-charged words may be redefined to emphasize the outlook of the group. Some new words are created to aid comprehension of new or unusual concepts.
3 pts ) The group redefines and creates many words in order to isolate the members from "the others" (non-members) and to reorient his values as being those of the group.
5 pts ) A full-blown vocabulary replaces normal language and mentally entraps the member. It is difficult for the member to understand non-members after assimilating this vocabulary.
The Highway hit the nail on the head. Another 5 points.
doctrine over person
The organisation asks its members to experience first before criticizing. These experiences shape a person's outlook and eventually the person acts like everyone else. His emotional well-being is dependant on being with the group.
0 pts ) Experience is not required to understand the group's doctrine or mechanisms. Emotional well-being is not dependant on being with the group (friendships may form, however).
1 pt ) "You can't really know unless you experience it". People without experience are told that their criticism is irrelevant.
3 pts ) Experience is part of what gives one status in the group. People who have experience fall into a pattern of thought or action. People without experience are told that their criticism is irrelevant. Members derive emotional benefits from being part of the group, which they would not get otherwise.
5 pts ) Knowledge is nothing - experience is everything. The more you accomplish in the group's standards, the more important you are. People without experience must be guided by any means possible higher up the hierarchy or must be tricked to stay as long as possible. The entire emotional well-being of the members is dependant on being in the group.
If #5 were changed to Knowledge is gained by experience, I could agree more completely. In my time -- you had status by the color of your name tag. You had status if you had taken *X* amount of classes. You had status if you heard docvic teach a class live, instead of by tape, or video. The last sentence:
"The entire emotional well-being of the members is dependant on being in the group" gives me reason to rate it another 5 points.
Also count one point for each of the following characteristics that exist in the group :
Salvation : Group proposes a superior state of beingness or salvation.
Lovebombing : Group promotes displaying excess consideration or even affection towards a new recruit in order to give him a sense of belonging and keep him in the organisation.
Cognitive dissonance : Contradictions are used in conditioning members to accept the group's doctrine or mechanisms. The act of accepting and rationalizing these contradictions is an important element of brainwashing.
Charismatic leadership : Emphasis is placed on the leader or leaders. These leaders can issue commands or edicts obeyed without question. Worshipping and loyalty are paramount.
Deception in recruiting : When one is involved in the group, lies and deceptions in the recruiting material are soon apparent.
Exploitation : People work for virtually nothing, usually to the profit of the leaders.
Separation from friends and family : People are invited to stop talking to friends or family who do not encourage their participation in the group.
Non-critical thinking : Doubting questions about the mechanisms or doctrine of the group are deflected or rejected. Usually, one must experience or be a leader in order to "understand".
Discrediting outside information : Any criticism from the outside is wrong. Only people on the inside really know what the doctrine or mechanisms are all about.
Loss of independant judgment : The person must rely on other people, usually people above him in the hierarchy, before making any kind of decision, even personal decisions.
Fear of leaving : Group promotes the idea that leaving the group is a very bad decision, which may make the member's future life hellish (in religious doctrines, literally hellish).
Sleep deprivation : Group forces its members to work unusually long hours. Sleep deprivation can also be used to help brainwashing.
I accept 10 of this last group, so my final score is now 35.
David
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Raf
Okay, wait a minute on this, guys. Yes, the TWI experience made it difficult for others to understand us. But how many people do you know had difficulty understanding other people because of "loaded" language? I think there's a big difference here.
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WordWolf
I call that one a "3", or a "4" if you were in the late 90s-early 00s.
They could communicate with Americans,
but their vocabulary WAS largely limited by the terms they
were REQUIRED to use in conversations.
This limited the subjects they could talk about,
but it wasn't as far as, say,
a Spanish-speaker and an English speaker communicating.
In rare exceptions, it was more like Spanish vs Italian,
where you can kinda-sorta communicate.
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dmiller
Not really, Raf. When I was in my *witnessing days*, I did have to explain what I meant by certain words. Some of the stuff I came up with was absolutely unrecognizeable (as I/twi meant it) to the person I was talking to.
David
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Morgan
I've been itching all day for the time to sit down to this thread! :)
Okay here goes . . . . . .Oh and for clarities sake I was in for all of the 1990's and left near the end of 2000
The organisation controls its people by group pressure or geographical isolation.
0 pts ) The system is open : there is no pressure to adhere, to stay in the group, or isolation from the rest of society.
1 pt ) There is some pressure in doing as the group says, but no physical coercion.
3 pts ) There is a lot of peer pressure to stay in the group and do as the group says. There may be some light physical coercion.
5 pts ) There is tremendous and constant pressure from other members to act and think like the group does. Deviating from the norm is seen as an abnormality which must be dealt with swiftly. The group is physically isolated.
5 points. By the time I left I had no friends outside of TWI. I was home 24/7 except for fellowship and necssary errands such as shopping (which was a two by two excursion)
cult of confession
The organisation gets people to confess their sins or evils, in order for them to be cleansed. These confessions can be used against them later. Some group leaders also confess in public in order to look more human and to put the organisation more to their level.
0 pts ) No aspect of confession is involved. There is nothing to be "purified" or "cleansed" of, there is no higher state to be attained.
1 pt ) Some leaders will share their experiences and past troubles with the group in order to enforce the idea that "anyone can do it". No superior state of being or purification is proposed.
3 pts ) Confessions from members can be used against them in order to get them back in the fold, or keep them there. Leaders will share their experiences also. A superior state of being or purification is proposed (such as "being saved" or "being rich").
5 pts ) There is high confessional pressure, either to confess your sins regularily, or a constant bombardment of testimonies and confessions from leaders. An exhalted state of being is proposed (such as holiness, super-beingness or blatant godhood).
I think I'd go 4 points here. We weren't always pressured to confess our own sins, but we were expected to rat out those around us.
sacred science
The organisation's methods are perfect. Any fault lies with the person, not with the methods. Furthermore, testimonies and present successes demonstrate that the system works. One must have faith and go on.
0 pts ) There is open-mindedness and methods or doctrines are revised when necessary - no undue blame is placed on the person. No testimonies or success-bombing is used.
1 pt ) The system works : there are testimonies. People are confident in the success of the system because of them, despite lack of proof.
3 pts ) The system works : a large part of getting new members in relies on testimonies and demonstrations. Successful people are paraded and failures can be due to people not following the "system" or being too "critical". Hope and faith makes one more successful, therefore motivation is important.
5 pts ) The doctrine is presented as infallible, and any fault or bad happenings are strictly due to the people involved. Outrageous testimonies, constant reminder of other people's success. Members are pushed to continue so that problems will be soon resolved.
5 points easily. Anything we saw as a contradiction was brushed off at best as an error in our understanding.
loading of the language
The organisation redefines words (especially emotionally-charged words) to suit its outlook in the world, and more importantly, the outlook it wants its members to have. The creation of new words or expressions also isolates the member from the outside world.
0 pts ) New words are created or redefined.
1 pt ) Some emotionally-charged words may be redefined to emphasize the outlook of the group. Some new words are created to aid comprehension of new or unusual concepts.
3 pts ) The group redefines and creates many words in order to isolate the members from "the others" (non-members) and to reorient his values as being those of the group.
5 pts ) A full-blown vocabulary replaces normal language and mentally entraps the member. It is difficult for the member to understand non-members after assimilating this vocabulary.
I'd say 3 here. Certainly some loading, but not a complete replacement
doctrine over person
The organisation asks its members to experience first before criticizing. These experiences shape a person's outlook and eventually the person acts like everyone else. His emotional well-being is dependant on being with the group.
0 pts ) Experience is not required to understand the group's doctrine or mechanisms. Emotional well-being is not dependant on being with the group (friendships may form, however).
1 pt ) "You can't really know unless you experience it". People without experience are told that their criticism is irrelevant.
3 pts ) Experience is part of what gives one status in the group. People who have experience fall into a pattern of thought or action. People without experience are told that their criticism is irrelevant. Members derive emotional benefits from being part of the group, which they would not get otherwise.
5 pts ) Knowledge is nothing - experience is everything. The more you accomplish in the group's standards, the more important you are. People without experience must be guided by any means possible higher up the hierarchy or must be tricked to stay as long as possible. The entire emotional well-being of the members is dependant on being in the group.
This one is tough - cause with them it was knowledge that was everything and experience meant little. BUT we were told that we had to DO before we could know. I'm thinking I would go with a 3 here.
Also count one point for each of the following characteristics that exist in the group :
Salvation : Group proposes a superior state of beingness or salvation.
Absolutely - the one and only household of god and all
Lovebombing : Group promotes displaying excess consideration or even affection towards a new recruit in order to give him a sense of belonging and keep him in the organisation.
Another absolute! Get people while they are weak (find their need) and build them up (and meet it)
Cognitive dissonance : Contradictions are used in conditioning members to accept the group's doctrine or mechanisms. The act of accepting and rationalizing these contradictions is an important element of brainwashing.
Too many examples to quote them all.
Charismatic leadership : Emphasis is placed on the leader or leaders. These leaders can issue commands or edicts obeyed without question. Worshipping and loyalty are paramount.
Definitely
Deception in recruiting : When one is involved in the group, lies and deceptions in the recruiting material are soon apparent.
I'm not sure this one qualifies. At least on the lower level of average twiggies, I don't think we intentionally deceived. And upper level didn't really witness.
Exploitation : People work for virtually nothing, usually to the profit of the leaders.
Yup
Separation from friends and family : People are invited to stop talking to friends or family who do not encourage their participation in the group.
Again an absolute. I can't count how many rounds I went over my family ties.
Non-critical thinking : Doubting questions about the mechanisms or doctrine of the group are deflected or rejected. Usually, one must experience or be a leader in order to "understand".
Again yes
Discrediting outside information : Any criticism from the outside is wrong. Only people on the inside really know what the doctrine or mechanisms are all about.
yup
Loss of independant judgment : The person must rely on other people, usually people above him in the hierarchy, before making any kind of decision, even personal decisions.
Yup - better check those decisions out with leadership first
Fear of leaving : Group promotes the idea that leaving the group is a very bad decision, which may make the member's future life hellish (in religious doctrines, literally hellish).
Absolutely - I had panic attacks for six months after I left
Sleep deprivation : Group forces its members to work unusually long hours. Sleep deprivation can also be used to help brainwashing.
Never experienced that one
total of 29 points
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Nato
This thread is awesome.
But I am kind of suprised that a certain TWI apologist hasn't posted the opposite of this poll.
5 points if you were born again in the Way.
5 points if you can S.I.T.
5 points if you still worship VPW.
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