While we certainly need leaders (elders, deacons, etc) within the church, I don't see where 'ordination' that give them an honorifc title and sets them up as a ruling clergy class is biblical whatsoever. Biblically, 'ordain' simply means to appoint.
However, in order to be recognized by the State to perform legal marriages, a person does need to be "ordained" by some qualified group/religion. This can easily be done via the Web for free at several websites. It of course has no spiritual meaning, but it does allow a person to legaly perform marriages and may even get you a free spot in the hospital parking lot.
It is not Universalist, it is the "Universal Life Church".
Knew a guy back in the 70's who was one of them there. He got his *minister's license* through the mail and used it to evade (or is that avoid?) the draft back when Viet-Nam was a happening thing.
Hey Oldies -- that looks like expensive Holy Water.
A friend of mine just showed me his paper from the state of Ohio showing he can perform marriage ceremonies. He also went to the "universal life church" website and got a paper sayin' he could preach. That's all it takes.
The ordinations handed out in the Universal Life Church seem about as "valid" as the ordinations in TWI...Funny, but I dn't recall reading anything in the bible about Rev. Paul or Rev. Peter. Another example of causing division within the body?...The haves and the have nots?...Oh but wait! Mr. Wierwille received "revelation" about who should be ordained! Yeah, and Bozo the clown discovered electricity too.
The ordinations handed out in the Universal Life Church seem about as "valid" as the ordinations in TWI..
How True .... They are only "valid" in the sense that they allow the ordained person to perform certain functions regulated by most states. From a spiritual/Christian prospective, I have about as much respect for a TWI ordination as I do one from the Universal Life Church, and that is none at all.
Funny, but I dn't recall reading anything in the bible about Rev. Paul or Rev. Peter. Another example of causing division within the body?...The haves and the have nots?...
Yup, Paul as well as Jesus himself warned against such things as taking on exalted titles. Yet the Christian church has basically ignored these warnings since about the 2nd century when the clergy / laity division was put into practice. Now, most chuches are divided into two separate castes of people, clergy and laity where clergy are the ruling class making all the rules and decisions while the laity relegated to be the followers with little say in church matters.
Twi's caste system was even more divisive than most churches. You had non Grads, basic PFAL grads, Intermeduiate Grads, WOW's, Advanced Class Grads, Staff, Way Corps, Clergy ( Reverends) and finally the BOT, each caste having it own set of special privileges.
We even advertised which particular class of people we belonged to with our various name tags, so we could, among other things, know who was above or below us in the pecking order and who to pay hommage to or obey.
And God forbid that members of different castes were to mingle inappropriately - Like a Way Corps Grad (super spiritual) marrying an Intermediate Grad ( much less spiritual). This would cause the Corps Grad to be "unequally yolked". However, is was pretty much OK if the Way Corps folks bedded down the the lower classes, just don't marry them and be unequally yolked..
How True .... They are only "valid" in the sense that they allow the ordained person to perform certain functions regulated by most states. From a spiritual/Christian prospective, I have about as much respect for a TWI ordination as I do one from the Universal Life Church, and that is none at all.
Oh come on Goey, try to be a little more tolerant of others' beliefs will ya? :lol:
From what I've read so far, the ULC ordinations aren't based on a Christian perspective at all since they allow anyone of varied spiritual beliefs/non spiritual beliefs to be ordained. It is not a Christian church, or limited only to Christians. Athiests pagans wiccans and satan worshippers may also be ordained. :lol:
Just for the record, I'm a ULC church "reverend" as well :ph34r:
If someone is getting married, and wants it blessed by their favorite teacher, or grandfather or a South Florida reporter B), why should the state or anyone else care? But since most states require an "ordination" for a person to perform a marriage, the ULC provides the service or ordaining people for free.
The "ordination" doesn't confer any degree of spirituality on the person, just legality.
By the way, I didn't buy any of their certificates, collars, or I.D. cards. :lol:
Now, most chuches are divided into two separate castes of people, clergy and laity where clergy are the ruling class making all the rules and decisions while the laity relegated to be the followers with little say in church matters.
Goey, this is why I miss the simple small town southern ways. Most of the churches are run by lay ministers and volunteers. There is no "staff" and everyone is invited to any and all meetings about "church business".
My great uncle is a Baptist minister at the local church, he retired from preaching when he retired from the Post Office (his day job) and now only preaches when the new minister has to be out of town. He's no better than anyone else in the church and, if you met him, you'd have no clue this man was an ordained minister and no one calls him Reverend, either. He's just Jack Jones who preaches on Sundays in his overalls. B)
Get ordained online for free HERE or HERE ( Any Religion)
If you want a strictly Christian ordination look HERE. It costs a few bucks and takes about a week, but you do get a bit more that just a Web based certificate from your printer.
Just for the record, I'm a ULC church "reverend" as well :ph34r:
If someone is getting married, and wants it blessed by their favorite teacher, or grandfather or a South Florida reporter B), why should the state or anyone else care? But since most states require an "ordination" for a person to perform a marriage, the ULC provides the service or ordaining people for free.
The "ordination" doesn't confer any degree of spirituality on the person, just legality.
By the way, I didn't buy any of their certificates, collars, or I.D. cards. :lol:
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Goey
Hi Rejoice,
I ask the questions:
Below is an article with some good points to consider.
PS: This will probably be moved to the Doctrinal Forum.
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Rejoice
Wow; thanks Goey! that is a wonderful article. It seems that there is no reason for formal "ordination" outside of the traditions of men, correct?
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Goey
Rejoice,
While we certainly need leaders (elders, deacons, etc) within the church, I don't see where 'ordination' that give them an honorifc title and sets them up as a ruling clergy class is biblical whatsoever. Biblically, 'ordain' simply means to appoint.
However, in order to be recognized by the State to perform legal marriages, a person does need to be "ordained" by some qualified group/religion. This can easily be done via the Web for free at several websites. It of course has no spiritual meaning, but it does allow a person to legaly perform marriages and may even get you a free spot in the hospital parking lot.
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oldiesman
Goey is correct.
Let me pipe in here and say that I am an ordained minister in the Universalist Life Church.
Marriage anyone?
And stay the hell out of my parking spot.
"we are one"
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bliss
Do you or will you perform same-sex marriages, Oldies?
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oldiesman
Umm, I'm not sure right now.
Let me look up with the principles of my church is and I'll get back to you. :lol:
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oldiesman
I made a mistake.
It is not Universalist, it is the "Universal Life Church".
BTW, I can also perform Exorcisms.
Here is the official Holy Water I may use.
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bliss
You had me worried there for a minute Oldies..................................lol
You must have the collard black shirt with white tab in front for $20 too?!
How cheesy to "buy" a degree, or credentials.
Look how easy it is to fool............. :unsure:
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dmiller
Knew a guy back in the 70's who was one of them there. He got his *minister's license* through the mail and used it to evade (or is that avoid?) the draft back when Viet-Nam was a happening thing.
Hey Oldies -- that looks like expensive Holy Water.
Try my recipe for something cheaper -------
Get some water --- And boil the HELL out of it!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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outofdafog
A friend of mine just showed me his paper from the state of Ohio showing he can perform marriage ceremonies. He also went to the "universal life church" website and got a paper sayin' he could preach. That's all it takes.
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Oakspear
Most states require that you be an ordained minister to perform weddings, but as a practical matter, most states don't check.
In Nebraska, as long as there are enough signatures on the paperwork you can perform a wedding
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GrouchoMarxJr
The ordinations handed out in the Universal Life Church seem about as "valid" as the ordinations in TWI...Funny, but I dn't recall reading anything in the bible about Rev. Paul or Rev. Peter. Another example of causing division within the body?...The haves and the have nots?...Oh but wait! Mr. Wierwille received "revelation" about who should be ordained! Yeah, and Bozo the clown discovered electricity too.
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ex10
Well, at least most "traditional" organizations, at least have the decency to defrock pedophiles and serial adulterers. B)
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oldiesman
To my knowledge, ULC doesn't support rape adultery and pedophilia, but only "that which is good".
Of course, "good" may be defined by an individual. :lol:
But I'm not sure if they actually defrock ordained clergy who have been convicted of these crimes.
I have to check...they have a website and a discussion board.
It's very interesting. :lol: :lol:
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Goey
Posted by Groucho
How True .... They are only "valid" in the sense that they allow the ordained person to perform certain functions regulated by most states. From a spiritual/Christian prospective, I have about as much respect for a TWI ordination as I do one from the Universal Life Church, and that is none at all.Yup, Paul as well as Jesus himself warned against such things as taking on exalted titles. Yet the Christian church has basically ignored these warnings since about the 2nd century when the clergy / laity division was put into practice. Now, most chuches are divided into two separate castes of people, clergy and laity where clergy are the ruling class making all the rules and decisions while the laity relegated to be the followers with little say in church matters.
Twi's caste system was even more divisive than most churches. You had non Grads, basic PFAL grads, Intermeduiate Grads, WOW's, Advanced Class Grads, Staff, Way Corps, Clergy ( Reverends) and finally the BOT, each caste having it own set of special privileges.
We even advertised which particular class of people we belonged to with our various name tags, so we could, among other things, know who was above or below us in the pecking order and who to pay hommage to or obey.
And God forbid that members of different castes were to mingle inappropriately - Like a Way Corps Grad (super spiritual) marrying an Intermediate Grad ( much less spiritual). This would cause the Corps Grad to be "unequally yolked". However, is was pretty much OK if the Way Corps folks bedded down the the lower classes, just don't marry them and be unequally yolked..
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oldiesman
From what I've read so far, the ULC ordinations aren't based on a Christian perspective at all since they allow anyone of varied spiritual beliefs/non spiritual beliefs to be ordained. It is not a Christian church, or limited only to Christians. Athiests pagans wiccans and satan worshippers may also be ordained. :lol:
"we are one"
B)
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Goey
Posted By Oldiesman:
Are you serious?
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Oakspear
Just for the record, I'm a ULC church "reverend" as well :ph34r:
If someone is getting married, and wants it blessed by their favorite teacher, or grandfather or a South Florida reporter B), why should the state or anyone else care? But since most states require an "ordination" for a person to perform a marriage, the ULC provides the service or ordaining people for free.
The "ordination" doesn't confer any degree of spirituality on the person, just legality.
By the way, I didn't buy any of their certificates, collars, or I.D. cards. :lol:
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Belle
I wanna be ordained! Mama would be so proud! :P
Goey, this is why I miss the simple small town southern ways. Most of the churches are run by lay ministers and volunteers. There is no "staff" and everyone is invited to any and all meetings about "church business".
My great uncle is a Baptist minister at the local church, he retired from preaching when he retired from the Post Office (his day job) and now only preaches when the new minister has to be out of town. He's no better than anyone else in the church and, if you met him, you'd have no clue this man was an ordained minister and no one calls him Reverend, either. He's just Jack Jones who preaches on Sundays in his overalls. B)
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Goey
Belle,
Get ordained online for free HERE or HERE ( Any Religion)
If you want a strictly Christian ordination look HERE. It costs a few bucks and takes about a week, but you do get a bit more that just a Web based certificate from your printer.
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oldiesman
ULC also provides certificates through U.S. mail.
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moony3424
In Florida, all you need is to be a notery. (can witness a signiture and perform a wedding at the same time)
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oldiesman
Oakspear, there are more of us than some realize.
"we are one"
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Raf
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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