vp and me in Wonderland

[Rejoice]

"Dr said of Donna, 'You married yourself a hell of a woman! Her heart perception with people is

second to none.'"

Gag, gag, GAG!!! Her heart perception with people is second to none??????? :wacko:

[Oakspear]

Instead, he threw a tantrum that someone else touched one of his toys-even though it was to bring it to him. His "stuff" meant more to him than the people.

Did Wierwille personally own this golf cart? Or did it belong to The Way International? I'm thinking the latter. It wasn't really "his stuff" then, was it?

Dr thought about it for awhile and then came back with his response which was to back up LCM totally and tell the in-residence people that if they couldn't handle the heat, then leave.

Martindale learned this lesson well when composing his "loyalty letter" and throughout the nineties. Efforts to change were met with a tyrannical response and an invitation to leave "and don't let the door hit you in the rear"

What does "Horse-Sense" have to do with "an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness"?

Good question. We all know many people who had good common sense. "Spiritual perception and awareness" implies something beyond what you can perceive with your 5 senses.

[WordWolf]

Did Wierwille personally own this golf cart? Or did it belong to The Way International? I'm thinking the latter. It wasn't really "his stuff" then, was it?

Hm.

Good point.

But vpw viewed twi's stuff as "his", you know, it was his personal piggy bank.

Whenever he wanted something, twi bought it no questions asked,

so long as it wouldn't exhaust the finds

(like the restaurant and the ski lift.)

God didn't need a plane or a BUNCH of motorcycles, after all.

[WordWolf]

"After talking with LCM one day, Dr dismissed all the corps for bad attitude problems.

Doesn't make his own evaluation- listens to one guy and makes a

capricious decision. Typical, unscriptural, and sloppy.

He told them

'Ok, as of right now, you're all out of the corps.'

They made a committment for the four years,

and so did the organization.

That agreement-which was in writing-was an enforceable contract.

vpw reneged on his contract with the corps students.

That was HIS decision and HIS FAULT.

He then made it available to all of them to reapply to him by filling out a 3 x 5 card,

The card had to express their willingness to obey leadership. Some of them

decided to leave rather than obey."

Those who decided to leave, apparently, realized that vpw saw

nothing wrong with demanding THEIR full committment,

then reneging on his OWN promises,

which demonstrated a lack of substance on HIS part.

vpw was UNTRUSTWORTHY as demonstrated.

"As leaders in the ministry you sometimes can't get involved with everyone's

problems.

Except, as we just saw, you can throw them out without warning.

You just don't have the time.

You accepted the responsibility of being a leader of these people.

They accepted the responsibility of following your lead.

You ALREADY made a "gentleman's agreement" or a

LEGALLY-ENFORCEABLE CONTRACT.

(No real Christian would violate a 'gentleman's agreement-

his yea is yea, his nay is nay, and that's it.)

BEFORE you become leader, you see if you HAVE the time.

If you discover later you lack the time,

you MAKE the time.

It is your responsibility-so you spend YOURSELF for God's people

as you promised.

vpw often made claims that he did this sort of thing

when addressing the public, like at the ROA,

but, in private,

he seems well aware that he was lying.

Sometimes all you can do is be there for your people in a crisis.

Often, that there IS a crisis demostrates a failure in the leader

to head one off.

LCM had a number of incidents where he hadnt been

aware of certain people having difficulties. He had felt foolish for not knowing about

it and not having been there to help."

Not "foolish", just "unprepared for the job."

[WordWolf]

1975-1976

1st year of Way Corps at Emporia.

===========

"Dr said to LCM: 'Now it's your baby. Keep it moving, have no regrets.'

One of the great learning standards-have no regrets."

Unqualified man is now completely in charge, and told not to

have a guilty conscience or analyze past mistakes.

This is a bad sign...

"Some people claimed that the ministry was turning the Way Corps into

slave labour. They were working on getting Emporia into shape. Dr said to

LCM, 'People love to work, they love to invest their labor into a place they

have pride in.' "

They were right.

corps PAID to join, then were assigned manual labour.

"LCM finally decided he needed to get married.

What a cold statement. Was that due to HINDSIGHT,

or was that always a cold decision?

He goes to Dr and lets him know his thoughts and seeking advice.

Naturally-he can hardly think for himself at this point.

Dr promised he'd look out for a good woman for him.

vpw would handle this entire business-find the woman,

convince her to marry lcm, etc.

Later, LCM decided to marry Donna

Oh, we're suddenly skipping so, so much...

and immediately told Dr. Dr said

'She's a good woman' and then rode off quickly on his motorbike. LCM found out

later that he had gone at once to call Donna and talk to her to let her know and

understand fully what she was getting into with LCM. He was going to be a great

leader in the ministry and she had to be prepared to handle herself accordingly, etc."

I'd LOVE to have a transcript of what she was told.

He'll be a bigwig in this ministry, this man you will marry.

Was there ever a drop of love in this? Was it all cold calculations?

lcm decides he should marry, vpw picks the woman, lcm agrees,

vpw tells her she's landing a rich, influential husband.

This is about as deep and passionate as those mail-order brides.

"Donna was in residence at the time but Dr gave her permission to visit Emporia

frequently so that they could get started early on getting to know each other."

They decided to marry but didn't know each other well.

Anyone else catch that?

Also, nice double-standard. Nobody else gets ANY privileges, lcm and his

fiancee have a free pass to do whatever.

"One situation arose when LCM made a gift presentation to Dr but omitted to make

one to Mrs W. She was very embarrassed due to the breach in protocol.

SHE was embarassed?

I'll bet anything VPW was the instigator.

Privately,

the next day, Dr and Mrs W reproved LCM for the error. If you are going to lead

God's people, you cannot miss on protocol. It's representing God and the ministry."

"Protocol", of course, means

"you kiss up to vpw and do whatever he wants."

What rule of "protocol" was this supposed to be?

What set of rules of "protocol" was used as a standard?

Amazing the corps never were assigned this "protocol",

but that's ok-it only applied when in vpw's presence....

Edited November 2, 2005 by WordWolf

[Oakspear]

Did Wierwille personally own this golf cart? Or did it belong to The Way International? I'm thinking the latter. It wasn't really "his stuff" then, was it?

Hm.

Good point.

But vpw viewed twi's stuff as "his", you know, it was his personal piggy bank.

Whenever he wanted something, twi bought it no questions asked,

so long as it wouldn't exhaust the funds

(like the restaurant and the ski lift.)

God didn't need a plane or a BUNCH of motorcycles, after all.

It all goes back to Wierwille and his brother signing over their inheritance to The Way, Incorporated. Whether one thinks that Wierwille had genuine godly motives or was a scam artist from the start, he benefited from and had access to ALL of TWI's assets, without being burdened by propert taxes, income tax, etc.

We were so fooled, thinking it was our ministry.

"One situation arose when LCM made a gift presentation to Dr but omitted to make

one to Mrs W. She was very embarrassed due to the breach in protocol.

SHE was embarassed?

I'll bet anything VPW was the instigator.

Who the h*ll is embarassed by a breach in protocol anyway? :blink:

He then made it available to all of them to reapply to him by filling out a 3 x 5 card,

The card had to express their willingness to obey leadership. Some of them decided to leave rather than obey."

Does this remind you of anything? <_<

Is this thread an eye-opener or what?

[WordWolf]

'Ok, as of right now, you're all out of the corps.'

He then made it available to all of them to reapply to him by filling out a 3 x 5 card,

The card had to express their willingness to obey leadership. Some of them

decided to leave rather than obey."

I don't know how I missed it, Oakspear.

Business as usual.

vpw started with the "I want your loyalty to me" in writing.

lcm picked it up and tried it in 1989, but it didn't work.

[WordWolf]

1975-1976.

=======

"Dr presents LCM with a used Honda 350 to scoot around the campus on.

Dr took LCM out that evening to properly instruct him on how to use a

motorbike safely."

If this isn't a transparent "I want you to imitate me" thing,

I don't know what is...

"Discussions with Dr regarding Corps with low levels of sponsorship. Dr allowed

LCM to sit with him for a week as he (Dr) talked with each corps person in

that predicament. Dr came up with suggestions to help people and

challenged them to figure out things themselves.

They can stay as long as their money holds!

We MUST have their money-can't stay without it.

What do we value most? "The people."

But the people better have money or we don't value

them so much.

He told the corps that smoked that they needed to quit if they wanted to stay.

The money they saved could go towards their sponsorship.

Smoking is expensive.

vpw knew that-he chain-smoked and all the money came from

your ABS.

Of course, this would have been a GOLDEN time to illustrate it

was possible to stop smoking by stopping HIMSELF.

After all, a leader doesn't expect things from the followers that

he HIMSELF doesn't do....

Dr required committment from people.

Moreso than from himself, but this is no longer news.

Then he helped them with their believing. He made smoking

agreements with a number of people."

"Later on that year, one of the people came to LCM to confess that they had

breached the no-smoking agreement. That spurred LCM to ask each one of

the people involved if they had kept the committment. Had they, at any time

since the agreement, had a cigarette. 15 of them said that they had smoked."

The others were smart and learned that lying to leadership WORKS!

"After some careful deliberation, LCM dismissed the 15 from the Corps for

the breach. He felt he didn't need to ask Dr. W. for clearance. Dr had told

them they could stay if they hept their part of the deal. Once they broke

it, they had disqualified themselves.

So much for the "people are what matter most" stuff...

Dr, upon hearing the news, agreed with LCM's decision but a few days later

decided to offer these people a new chance, He challenged them to get all

of their money together in one week and re-commit to the agreement if they

wanted back in. A number of them did come back in."

I was serious about kicking you out!

But I changed my mind-if you have all our money, that is....

Edited November 3, 2005 by WordWolf

[WordWolf]

"Dr and LCM always fought for people to stay in the Corps.

Except those who ran out of money, of course...

There was an incident of a guy in the Corps who all of a sudden went

"gooney-bird". He started to babble and not make sense.

lcm got his Bachelor's Degree in PSYCHOLOGY.

He was unable to explain better than this what happened.

"Gooney-bird" is not a phrase found in the DSM-III,

which was THE standard in use at the time.

Sounds to me that this guy had an undiagnosed

psychiatric problem. His chemistry or neurology was

out of order and was preventing him from functioning

at that moment with an acute attack of SOMETHING.

That's not something you can DECIDE TO CHANGE

by trying-you need medication or surgery to address

that (although therapy WITH medication or surgery

works better than the medication or surgery ALONE).

ANY psychology undergrad student should know that-

let alone one who got his BACHELORS.

LCM worked hard with the guy to help him but he was incoherent.

Was this aphasic, or did it resemble a schizophrenic

episode? Was he using actual words but jumbling them,

or unable to form the syllables for English words?

Either way, this was NOTHING the guy could control.

Dr, when he met him,

confronted him by asking- 'Son, how come you're letting your mind get

all scrambled?'

Why "CONFRONT" someone having an OBVIOUS psychiatric episode?

That's as sensible as "CONFRONTING" someone for having a broken leg!

Further,

the guy is INCOHERENT- why are you asking him questions?

He may not understand them-and you definitely can't understand his ANSWERS.

The guy answered unintelligibly

DDUUUUUUUHHHH

and Dr told him that it would

be best for him just to pack his bags and go home. The guy understood

that. He left.

Yeah,

that sure demonstrates the love of God's people.

Guy has a psychiatric episode.

He needs to go to a hospital and be seen and diagnosed.

So, we're kicking him off grounds and out of the program.

LCM spent many hours and many long distance phone calls trying to make

sure the guy had gotten home from his bus ride home safely.

A man has just had an acute psychiatric attack!

We don't know if it was a seizure, an aneurysm, a stroke!

The man may be bleeding in his brain and ready to DIE as soon

as the next seizure hits, any moment now!

He needs an EMERGENCY ROOM visit,

and a Dr needs to make that distinction!

Once that's been determined, it does make sense to get him

back to his family's care as quickly as possible.

That means you arrange for his family to meet him at the

airport, you put him and a volunteer on a plane,

meet the family, and the volunteer turns around and

comes home. You DIDN'T give him a REFUND on his

corps fees, so the money can come from there.

If you MUST be a cheapskate, then put him in the

backseat of a car, and put 2 drivers to drive him

home. They alternate driving so you can keep

going faster, and the other guy sits in the back

and keeps an eye on the guy and makes sure

he doesn't have a seizure or something.

A man's LIFE is at stake here.

He is not DISPOSABLE!!!!

Not being able to verify his location, he was concerned.

Why NOT able to verify his location?

Because they took a man who was suffering from a

psychatric attack, has an obvious, undiagnosed

problem, kicked him off grounds,

"threw him in the water and told him to swim."

ANYTHING could happen to him!

They shoved him on a bus-and not on a 1-hour

nonstop, either!

Dr told him to move on.

There's nothing you can do, he'll show up at home soon enough.

MY GOD!

He really WAS "DISPOSABLE!"

He's off grounds, forget about him.

A week later the guy did show up at home."

A WEEK LATER?

It doesn't take a full week to cross from Ohio to any point

in the lower 48.

NYC to Los Angeles can be done by bus in a week.

NYC to hq is 12 hours continuous, figure TRIPLE that

at the slowest possible trip. That's less than 2 days.

Double THAT for anyplace in the lower 48, and that's

4 days.

This man has been wandering around for at least

3 days minimum.

That's because he had an acute psychiatric

attack,

and the response was to shove him on a bus

and forget about him.

What a HEARTLESS, CALLOUS, INHUMAN

response to have.

"Oh, eventually,

he turned up home,

so no harm done."

[WordWolf]

Ah.. more of the same old stuff.. "You're in, you're out. You're a speck of dirt in God's eye, you're the greatest" Again, and again, and again.. gads, they sure were masters at keeping people off balance..

I WONDER why. vic "confronted" the guy? Asking him WHY? The guy is incoherent for God's sake.. how is HE gonna know???!

I wonder how much it had to do with the freakin instability.. "you're in the corps, you're out. You're a pile of dung, you're wonderful. You're.."

Not to mention the diet there.. first gluttony, then starvation..

Probably would have made me incoherent too..

So much for being able to help somebody in a crisis.. just send them home.. unbelievable.

Concerned. A godly attribute.. and vic just proceeded to beat the last shred of humanity out of ole loy.. "move on son, nothing more to see here.."

"There's NOTHING you can do". Really?

Seems this little lesson taught loy how to "handle" people.. just put babbling, incoherent people on a bus, put "disobedient" staffers and whole families in a Ryder truck with little or no resources.. no place to go, and no way to get there.. and not have even a tweak of conscience doing so..

I kind of wondered where he learned this..

[WordWolf]

I'm not done with how unconscionably callous this was.

Here's what he said:

============

"Dr and LCM always fought for people to stay in the Corps.

There was an incident of a guy in the Corps who all of a sudden went

"gooney-bird". He started to babble and not make sense. LCM worked hard

with the guy to help him but he was incoherent. Dr, when he met him,

confronted him by asking- 'Son, how come you're letting your mind get

all scrambled?' The guy answered unintelligibly and Dr told him that it would

be best for him just to pack his bags and go home. The guy understood

that. He left.

LCM spent many hours and many long distance phone calls trying to make

sure the guy had gotten home from his bus ride home safely. Not being

able to verify his location, he was concerned. Dr told him to move on.

There's nothing you can do, he'll show up at home soon enough. A week

later the guy did show up at home."

======================

Now,

this was not much different from an undiagnosed HEART problem in

that it struck without warning and was biological.

So, I rewrote this using a different example as follows,

to shine another light on this....

====

"Dr and LCM always fought for people to stay in the Corps.

There was an incident of a guy in the Corps who all of a sudden collapsed.

He started to gasp for breath, and seemed to pass out and come back,

his heart hammering in his chest. LCM worked hard with the guy to help

him but he wouldn't remain fully conscious.

Dr, when he met him, confronted him by asking,

'Son, how come you're letting your heart race?'

The guy murmured inaudibly and Dr told him it would be best for him

just to pack his bags and go home. The guy understood that. He left.

LCM spent many hours and many long-distance phone calls trying to make

sure the guy had gotten home from his bus ride home safely. Not being

able to verify his location, he was concerned. Dr told him to move on.

'There's nothing you can do, he'll show up at home soon enough.

A week later, the guy did show up at home."

=======

NOW can everyone see why I find this an outrage?

Worse, it's hardly an isolated incident.

The "my story" forum has other people who were shoved off grounds

and on buses also, also barely functional.

I don't know about the courts then,

but if someone did this today, they could be charged with

CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE.

[jkboehme]

Take heart WW, there IS currently litigation underway alleging not only negligence on the part of twi (defendants) but also:

(1) The Actions of Defendants amount to negligent misrepresentation, intentional misrepresentation, fraud, & deceit;

(2) The actions of Defendants amount to malicious and intentional infliction of psychological and emotional distress;

(3) TWI's conduct constitutes a false and deceptive practice in violation of the Tennessee Consumer Protection Act;

(4) TWI, Stephen Roberts, John Stinson, Caryn Stinson, and John Lee held a fiduciary relationship with Plaintiffs due to the relation of confidence between them which gave them dominion or influence over the Plaintiffs; &,

(5) All Defendants were acting together in a common purpose to defraud Plaintiffs and other followers through TWI's systematic, covert program of harmful psychological conditioning, fraudulent representations, and promoted pseudo-spiritual practices for followers of TWI {undue influence).

[rascal]

I am glad that somebody has the guts and determination to hold twi legally responsible for what they have done.

Wordwolf....I too am struck with the callous indifference shown in that story. Starting right from the beginneing where a person...somebody who wanted to serve God bad enough and was selfless enough to work their tails off to get into the corpes to begin with....the poor guy has a SERIOUS problem...it could have been caused by any number of physical factors...possibly even the stress and poor nutrition that the guy subsisted on there....and yet lcm refers to this poor suffering soul as *gone gooney bird* how immature...how calloused is THAT?

the great and loving vp doesn`t care enough about him to even see that he gets home safely....just puts a man who has had a break with reality on a bus outta there....that happened to one of our posters here as well when she was on her way out to the wow field....they were told to stick her on a bus home....she was completely unable to function and got off in the wrong town.....

What about them sending the poor gal who was injured in lead away because she couldn`t recover from her head injury.....seems like they kept her around for about a year....would that per chance be the length of time before the statute of limitations was passed when she could file a lawsuit? <_<

NOW.......compare that with the way vpw`s good buddy howard was treated when HE lost his mind.....vp drove him home........the entire ministry participating in 24 hour prayer vigils..natural health experts....the best hospitals and treatment money could buy.....NOTHING was stinted in helping him make a comeback at all odds........the ministry no doubt paid the tab as well..............

Amazing innit? That vp`s pals rated so much better consideration and heroic measures to restore their health and sanity....the REST of us however weren`t worth squat....if we couldn`t produce....there was always another warm body to take our places....let our families whom we had been told to abandon as they were only natural man....pick up the broken pieces...

That is a hell of a far cry from the shepherd who left the 99 to find the one lost sheep.

I do not believe that there was anything even remotely Godly or spiritual about these men who could treat people with such calloused disregard.

Edited November 4, 2005 by rascal

[WordWolf]

"Dr began working and teaching the book of Acts verse by verse over the

next 2 years. He encouraged the corps to work the book of Acts from the

perspective of the 8 concluding statements that he laid out for them.

Interesting how he told THEM to do it, and he hadn't done it.

In hindsight, the reasons are obvious. He rarely did his own work...

Dr had thrown out the ball as he so often did and LCM picked it up and

ran with it. The result was ultimately the 'Rise and Expansion' book.

LCM put in 8-16 hours per day for a week working the subject."

It was vpw's idea, and lcm's work.

"The incident of 2 corps grads considering divorce.

Which is the business of the 2 people, who weren't even in a program

at the time.

Dr called the husband in

Why? It was none of his business!

in front of a number of the leaders and openly confronted him

So much for vpw claiming reprood is done in PRIVATE...

and challenged him to keep his marriage together. Divorce is wrong.

What is love? The Word of God!"

Because we all know how long-term relationships can be repaired

and revitalized by a third party spouting platitudes at the couple rather

than, say, marriage counselling of some kind.....

...but that's so much more expensive than platitudes...

And when it comes to marriage counselling,

does anyone here think vpw is the kind of person you want

to give you marriage counselling?

It's like that tv show where Jennifer Lopez was giving a toast at a

wedding.

"And I'd like you to know, the key to a successful marriage is--

oh, who am I kidding?"

(Yes, it was a comedy.)

Edited November 5, 2005 by WordWolf

[WordWolf]

"LCM and Donna leave on their trip and fail to say goodbye to Dr before they leave.

Oops. Oh, well, nothing major, right?

When they get back, Dr reproves them for the matter.

He was genuinely hurt.

Dr always was thinking of his people."

vpw didn't "reprove" them since there's no Bible chapter and verse

that requires one to say a goodbye.

He was genuinely hurt. 100% true.

Mainly because he didn't get his formal "salaam" before they left.

Dr "always thought of his people" when they forgot to kiss his as-inine self-image.

Interesting how they're "HIS PEOPLE" when they want him to

do something, or when they are obeying him,

but when they need urgent help,

it's platitudes and bus rides home.

Nothing but the quickest, cheapest solutions,

for the disposable people known as "his people."

"A corps girl escapes from the deprogrammers and makes it back on campus.

As she was brought into the meeting (as Dr had requested) where Dr was teaching,

he stopped and opened his arms for her. It was a very emotional moment.

Of course it was very emotional.

It was STAGED to be emotional.

He was right in the middle of the teaching,

she's brought right up to the stage to him,

he makes a compassionate gesture.

(Of course, if she has a mental breakdown next month,

it's off on a bus like the rest of them...)

Everyone was crying. Dr had her accompany him everywhere he went for the next few

weeks, to help her heart heal. He made her a part of his life."

And it was a fantastic "photo op", and re-inforced her loyalty.

And was a nice visible illustration.

"Look how much he cares for his people!"

Of course, we don't even know her name, because

she really WASN'T a part of his life.

When the photo-op was done,

it's the bus and obscurity for you.

You're being wished away into a cornfield.

PFAL 77

====

"Dr lets LCM teach to a huge audience. Even when you think that you know your material,

always work the Word and re-study the material before you teach it."

DUH.

"Don't make decisions based on what you feel. Base your decisions on what people need.

Unless what they need is expensive, in which case, base them on

saving money or what you feel....

"Dr developed the technique of wearing the microphone behind the tie. It had not been done

before in the secular world. Most thought that you couldn't make the voice sound authentic

enough when it is muffled behind cloth. Our ministry showed it could be done.

Dr was always thinking of ways to be better."

Most microphones WERE muffled behind cloth-a baffle placed over them!

Whoever he was getting this information from was ill-informed, and, apparently,

hadn't seen many microphones.

I'm sure it was done a LOT in the secular world.

You didn't notice, because you didn't see the microphone,

BECAUSE IT WAS BEHIND THE TIE!

Most speakers are more interested that you hear the CONTENT

than in the props that put them onstage.

"While at PFAL 77, Dr walked up to LCM on-stage and said 'You're a great man!'

Dr, always the master of the one-liners."

What's so masterful or holy about someone tossing out a compliment?

You'd think it was the first public usage of that phrase...

Edited November 6, 2005 by WordWolf

[WordWolf]

"Dr Wierwille didn't hold back from speaking the truth in love no matter who the individual

was or what his position was.

He handled it privately of course."

Of course.

He handled it privately.

Unless he felt like handling it publicly,

in which case you were humiliated in public.

Of course.

As we've seen from the same book,

lots of times.

June 78-Advanced Class, Bristol England.

=================

"Get your preparation done ahead of time. Dr used to do a lot of his work while in flight. That way,

as soon as he arrived at the location, he was ready to lead and teach."

He wasn't ready before getting on the flight?

I was working on a teaching just because it was on my mind,

and someone asked me the next day if I had a teaching ready.

I was able to close that one up inside of five minutes,

and I was not scheduled to teach ANYWHERE.

If I'd been scheduled to, I would have been ready sooner.

Why wasn't vpw just as ready for SCHEDULED ones?

I mean, light tweaks on a flight are one thing,

STARTING the thing is another....

"Dr had the whole class visit the grave of George Mueller. Dr had a great respect for people in history

who had significance on our ministry.

George Mueller had NOTHING to do with twi.

His attitude towards praying was VERY different from twi.

twi acted like they could DEMAND from God.

Mueller came boldly, but humbly with his requests.

vpw wasn't fit to lace the shoelaces of George Mueller.

"LCM starts to think in terms of our ministry and it not failing if and when Dr dies."

Ironic, since much of the failure can be traced directly to HIM...

"Dr learned other histories and other cultures to help move the Word in those countries.

Why did Wesley's ministry basically fail when he died?

1) Wesley never saw through the Trinity.

2) He never spent enough time training leadership. He tried to do it all himself.

3) Towards the end of his life, his leadership began to quarrel among themselves.

We must innoculate the world with the truth of ONE GOD.

Obviously, vpw is using some definition of "fail" I'm not familiar with.

If Wesley's ministry FAILED, the number of people would have dwindled.

A quick web search shows that a United Methodist set of conferences in

South Africa (Wesleyan conferences) recently had a combined attendance of

425,513. That's greater than the total number of people who have ever

taken pfal Foundational and wap Foundational put together-

and that's counting many people TWICE.

In 1970, the United Methodist Church in the US had a membership of

10,671,744. Dwindling membership numbers place them in 1995 as

9,105,046. Again, that's only the US.

That's also more than TEN TIMES in excess of people who ever took

any of twi's classes. That's something approaching 100 times

the number of people GLOBALLY who've taken pfal.

Then again,

perhaps "fail" is meant to refer to moral standards and corruption.

I STILL have not heard of scandals rocking the UMC.

On the other hand, vpw-who made the statement-

and lcm-who reported it-

were chronic sinners better suited to selling drugs or pimping

than to ministry.

So, he must not have meant that kind of failure.

[WordWolf]

Location-Motor Coach (75 Coach.)

==============

"Having coaches certainly can add length to your life.

Using proper equipment can be a real benefit to someone.

Sleeping in the same bed every night as opposed to a different hotel room each night

is beneficial to the health and well-being."

People whose actual concerns are HEALTH and WELL-BEING will FIRST

address the most immediate, pressing DANGERS to health and well-being.

If a chronic drinker and chain-smoker has the most comfortable

sleeping area in the world, and gets 10 hours of uninterrupted sleep,

and always eats from all 4 of the basic food groups,

it's still expected he'd going to drop dead at a young age because the

most PRESSING dangers to his life are still there,

damaging organs and introducing carcinogens.

Therefore, vpw was either a moron (which is possible)

or the coach thing was for a DIFFERENT reason.

Since he used the coach primarily to allow him his

creature comforts (easy access to smokes and drinks)

and to have a convient platform to rape women,

I'd go so far as to say the coach thing wasn't about

HEALTH at all.

Location-Office of the Corps Chalet.

================

"Without meekness and a real love for the Word and the practical application of the Word, a man

can't really bless anyone.

And that came from vpw and lcm. You can laugh now.

Incidents of people on the research team leaving the ministry because they felt that they knew

better. Dr always demonstrated great love towards them."

Well, to start with, he claimed they left because they felt that they knew better,

and thus that they had no LEGITIMATE reasons to leave,

and only CARNAL reasons to leave.

Those we've heard from who left seem to have had legitimate reasons

when we've heard from them.

Is it "demonstrating great love" to make up stories about people

to trash their reputation when they leave?

At least we know where lcm learned that trick....

Edited November 6, 2005 by WordWolf

[WordWolf]

ROA 1978 theme-"The Hope".

============

"If you really have something to suggest, then suggest it. If not, then say nothing!

Don't suggest something because you feel you are expected to.

Doing that is dishonest. People in leadership need to be able to trust in you

and your opinion. If you make suggestions for the sake of making them,

you are now causing the leader to think through your suggestion

and decide whether it has merit or not. You are making extra work for him or her.

That's not honest!"

God forbid the leader should have to THINK.....

lcm, apparently, is a stranger to "brainstorming"...

"Incident of a 6th Corps girl complaining to Dr that there was too much bad language.

Dr considered it and suggested that everyone in leadership should set the example.

Less bad language!"

That was a good idea.

Why did they need this to be pointed out to them?

And what happened to this with lcm in the 80s and 90s?

"Incident of Dr landing in Anchorage Alaska on a commercial flight. The landing was

ridiculously bumpy. Dr commented to the woman beside him that if his pilot landed

like that, he'd fire him. He then used that as a door to witness to her."

As has already been pointed out,

that wasn't "a door to witness",

that was a lecherous older man,

drunk with power,

trying to impress a woman sitting next to him.

"Dr was concerned that the younger people in the ministry might not be getting a fair shake at the

leadership responsibilities in the ministry. not get the opportunity to make their mark in the

ministry. He suggested that some of those on staff needed to go on the field and get off of staff

for a while. If the shoe fits, wear it. LCM considers leaving staff and asks Dr whether the advice

applied to him or not. Dr said no!"

What a shame. It would have been a HUGE improvement all around.

"Dr didn't have the time to read everything sent to him and so the research team idea was developed."

That's not what the research team said the team was ABOUT...

LCM teaches R & E at the Advanced Class 79 at Athens Ohio.

============

"Dr teaches by example the proper placement of seats so that all students can have an unobstructed

view of the teacher."

As was pointed out,

vpw didn't teach by example. He would have told others to move the chairs.

Plus,

they needed him to explain that? Weren't they stringing the chairs already?

Is this a part of "nobody knew anything unless vpw taught it to them"?

"Dr reproves LCM for not being his best when teaching at the Advanced Class. He told him to get

it together. Do whatever needed to be done so that he was at his best for teaching. LCM realized

that he was trying to do too much with being an MC and all. He cut back on his other responsibilities

and got rested so that he performed much better."

He needed to be told that he had to be rested and at his best when teaching live?

He had to be told to delegate some rather than try to micromanage everything?

He must have learned to micromanage SOMEWHERE.

Any guesses who taught him to do it?

[jkboehme]

Per WW a few posts back:

QUOTE

"A corps girl escapes from the deprogrammers and makes it back on campus. As she was brought into the meeting (as Dr had requested) where Dr was teaching, he stopped and opened his arms for her. It was a very emotional moment."

-----------------------------

Of course it was very emotional.

It was STAGED to be emotional.

He was right in the middle of the teaching,

she's brought right up to the stage to him,

he makes a compassionate gesture.

(Of course, if she has a mental breakdown next month,

it's off on a bus like the rest of them...)

QUOTE

Everyone was crying. Dr had her accompany him everywhere he went for the next few weeks, to help her heart heal. He made her a part of his life."

-----------------------------

And it was a fantastic "photo op", and re-inforced her loyalty.

And was a nice visible illustration.

"Look how much he cares for his people!"

Of course, we don't even know her name, because

she really WASN'T a part of his life.

When the photo-op was done,

it's the bus and obscurity for you.

You're being wished away into a cornfield.

While we are passing by this theme of vpw's more so obviously staged events, strategically designed by vpw for covert & deceptive "mystical manipulation," I thought it might be timely to recall another major scam involving staged events.

The Jim Jones / People's Temple cult massacre hit the news around Thanksgiving time in 1978. At a Corps Night teaching in late 1978 or early 1979 at Uncle Harry Hall on the Emporia campus, VPW played an audio tape (for the 7th & 9th Corps & guests) by Dr. Peter Beter. Beter was a former U.S. diplomat with connections to Zaire. Beter's ideological proclivities are to the far right extreme. Dr Beter produced a monthly audo tape series, #80 tapes in total.

Tapes # 40 & 41 relate how, according to Beter, the 900 plus dead bodies in Guyana were not of the mass homicide/suicide of members of The People's Temple at Jonestown, but rather were dead Russian soldiers killed by US military covert operations.

Wierwille's convenient point was, that not only is the People's Temple not a cult, more importantly TWI was not a cult either!! In fact, per vpw, there's no such thing as a cult, no such thing as intense indoctrination, or non-physically coersive persuasion, etc. {such as twi routinely utilized in the process of exploitative manipulation of its members}.

This Corps Night teaching was designed to disparage, denigrate, & 'explain away' any concern about twi being a cult which routinely utilized harmful and abusive practices leading in many cases to permanent physical & psychological injuries, and the potential for plaintiffs to legitimately claim legal damages.

Another situation that comes to mind is the newspaper series by vpw, 'By the Way.'

In one of the latter issues, where vpw is lamblasting deprogramming, he exhibits a profound degree of knowledge of the 'thought reform' literature {aka, coersive persuasion, intense indoctrination, mind control, etc.}. He even quotes or mentions Stalin's chief of the Soviet Secret Police {NKVD, later KGB}, Lavrenti Beria. In the article he is describing how deprogramming works on a psychological level. But, by virtue of his most interesting diatribe, he unknowingly reveals that he completely understands how to utilize intense indoctrination to suit his own selfish & greedy purposes.

This is the essence of all of twi. The spectrum of covert manipulation proceeds from the lower level manipulative persuasion (e.g., Twig, Household Fellowhip, Foundational PFAL, etc.), to the intermediate levels (Intermediate and Advanced Classes PFAL, WOW, FellowLaborer homes, Way Homes, etc.), and on to the extreme level (in residence programs, most notably the Way Corps, but also the College Division, etc.).

Therefore, in this instance, the staged element (a description of mind control by vpw) slips in a Freudian way, revealing vpw's command of the indoctrination process.

[WordWolf]

Hm.

Very thought-provoking.

[Jim]

" 'Tesla' from Yugoslavia. Original inventor of radios (not Marconi), also did most of the original work

on computers and robots, and the inventor of AC current. He had incredible idiosyncracies and

extreme behaviour. "

Um, no.

I'll take this one. Tesla was from Serbo-Croatia, was not the inventor of radios, (try Hertz, Fessenden and Marconi). Tesla did *nothing* with computers. He did do some radio control stuff with boats and such that might have been interpreted as robots in it's day.

Tesla was an absolutely brilliant engineer and researcher. He didn't invent AC current, but he almost singlehandedly designed the infrastructure of motors, alternators and transformers to use it effectively. The same infrastructure that we use today. Edison violently opposed AC because it allowed powerplants to be hundreds of miles from power customers. Edison's business plan called for an Edison generating plant no further than a mile or so from any one customer.

Tesla understood loyalty. He released George Westinghouse from a royalty agreement on AC equipment that saved Westinghouse his company and costed Tesla millions. He did this as a personal favor to Westinghouse because they were old friends. Tesla died broke.

As to his idiosyncracies, I doubt that he was any worse than VPW or LCM. I've read much of Tesla's published writings. They are most definitely the work of a sane, analytical and brilliant individual.

Oh, and keep up the great work WordWolf.

[WordWolf]

"Dr stated to LCM, 'Son, you're seeing things and teaching things that I've known for years but

never documented from the Word.'"

As someone pointed out, that means vpw didn't spend as much time in Acts as he

should have.

And if it wasn't "chapter and verse", how did he really "know" it?

He might just have been incorrect.

"Dr and LCM invite/request all the (in-residence and on-field) Corps to write their autobiographies.

Oct 79 was set for the deadline. Dr was hurt when not many responded to the deadline.

Was it an "INVITATION" (thus optional)

or a "REQUIREMENT" (thus compulsory)?

LCM had not done his yet either.

Not a problem if it was an "INVITATION",

but if it was, lcm should have known it would be expected of him specifically.

Dr reproved LCM in front of the corps.

A little public humiliation is standard operating procedure for vpw.

(As it was later for lcm.)

So much for "He handled it in private of course."

How can you expect the younger Corps to do something when the leadership didn't do it, either?

Who wants to bet money vpw failed to set the example and write out HIS?

Dr displayed great love and tenderness to him the next morning by inviting him to lead the 10:30am

fellowship."

Or, he got over himself.

"Dr was very tired and weak when they were walking back to the coach one night while at Gunnison.

Dr had a hard time breathing, etc. LCM was extremely concerned. At the coach, Dr told LCM

'You remind me of Rufus Mosely, all the love he had for me!' "

vpw, master of the name-drop.

What did that concern have to do with Rufus Mosely?

Lots of ministry people would have said the exact same thing!

"Dr once said 'I wonder if you guys will be able to hold this ministry together after I'm gone, or will

you just bicker with each other and try and climb over each other?' "

As if they split off from an established congregation because they

wanted to do EVERYTHING their way and keep the loot and boink the

females?

If they did,

they'd just be following in vpw's footsteps....

[Oakspear]

'Tesla' from Yugoslavia

Um, no.

I'll take this one. Tesla was from Serbo-Croatia

Not sure if your "Um, no" refers to his country of origin or not, but there is not, and never was a country called Serbo-Croatia.

The Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes was created from pieces of the former Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires following World War I. It later changed it's name to Yugoslavia (the land of the southern Slavs). It included the "republics" of Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia, and Montenegro, as well the regions of Kosovo and Vojvodina (not sure of the spelling). Several of these broke off to form the independent nations of Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia and Bosnia. The remainder of the country kept the name Yugoslavia, although it was primarily Serbia. I'm not sure if it still goes by Yugoslavia, or If the union of Serbia and Montenegro uses another name (Kosovo was included in Serbian territory).

The language that most of the ethnic groups from the former Yugoslavia speak is generally called Serbo-Croatian, although Bosnians immigrants around here call it "Bosnian".

[WordWolf]

Thanks guys, for picking up on Tesla.

Tesla had substance and character,

and was an absolute genius with electricity.

I kept getting stuck on whether Edison was the Direct Current

guy and Tesla was the Alternating Current guy,

or vice versa.

Edison DID invent the electric chair execution device-

which used AC. He did this to try to connect AC

with murder in the minds of the public.

(Interesting try.)

At advanced age, it appears Alzheimers or a similar problem

overtook Nikola Tesla, so at THAT time he became somewhat

obsessive-compulsive (in the "count your food" way.)

Before that, he was very clear and focused.

In fact, his illness only made him "hyper-focused".

Of course, you can't blame him for lack of perfection

due to illness.

(vpw and lcm would, though.

I suppose they'd say he eventually went "gooney-bird.")

[Oakspear]

"Dr used to say that the worst thing you can do to him after he teaches is come up to him and

ask a Bible question."

What the f---?

He just taught the bible

...and the worst thing that you can do is ask a bible question?

I guess what he really wanted is adulation.

I recall asking a Way Corps woman some questions after a teaching, her husband reproved me for it, using this VP & me example

Edited November 7, 2005 by Oakspear