Think TWI's Changed?

[Belle]

From 2001 - Fowl Play, anyone?? Has TWI changed since then?

To the BOT from some innies

This was sent to me with a request to post it here under the name "Fowl Play" with a private email address to go with it. I have read it and mostly agree so I am doing it. I am also "in" but do not take this as support for this or any other anti Way site. It is just a wake up call.

Dear BOT:

We have been quiet until now waiting for answers to questions we all have about the directions our ministry has been taking since LCM left. This is notice that some of us faithful disciples of the Way are getting tired of waiting.

We came to this ministry to learn the Word of God as it hasn’t been taught since the first century and that is what the Way used to be. Not to have doctrines of one man forced on us only to see that man finally leave and continue his devilish policies in a (quote) kinder, gentler way.

We know that many good people that we disciples are supposed to call cop outs and grease spots have been kicked out or forced to make the decision to leave because of these unbearable policies. We have been waiting for the open door to tell these people that things have changed and the ministry has corrected the wrong doctrine and practice that drove them out. We want to rebuild. You have responded only by leaving the door they left through open to follow them.

We know that many in the North West went through the door prematurely. Are they ALL possessed or spirit influenced? Is the North Atlantic next and will we be labelled the same if we follow? Do people in the rest of this country feel the same or is this only the coasts? What do disciples in Iowa or Alabama think? You know the answer even if no one has the courage to say it.

We are glad that the tree analogy is only an analogy. Because we know that we have four or five branch's here with loving leaders who teach the word. Our LC’s are the same. Our HFC’s also but some are growing impatient. It is the root that is diseased but thank God the branches can live without it.

There are many areas the ministry needs to correct but I believe debt is the issue that is the most dangerous to it’s welfare and has caused the most damage and needs addressed NOW. This is the issue that drove hundreds if not thousands of our best people away and took many of our best leaders out. All because one man took four words out of context in Romans and built a legalistic doctrine out of it while a whole ministry either ate that junk as LCM would say or walked away. Now we are *blessed* with a Way Magazine with an article devoted to trying to prop up this devilish doctrine. We have read it and worked it like good disciples and see that it is private interpretation and excuses to keep the status quo, NOT the Word. Are we simply to go ahead with this and the other devilish doctrines so the Way as a religious organization can keep egg off it’s face? Are we propping up this evil enslaving private interpretation so we don’t have to admit our ministry has made mistakes and ruined lives and families of thousands of saints? We quote David when it comes to Uriah but only if it fits our program?

You should know by now that many people are looking at buying houses and going back to college and buying cars and boats, and God bless them for doing what is right for them and blesses there lives instead of blindly following an adulterer’s raving. If they (~we~) have their advanced class status taken away from them, they will not care any more and may just leave on their own if you don’t make them go. The household grows smaller each day because you wanted it to be LCM's definition of clean.

The disciples of the Way want to return to the Word as their standard and will do it with or without you. We will not see our families torn apart any more and will not think we are less than God’s best just because you won’t admit your mistakes. Why not have another of the emergency grad meetings to tell us what we already know so we can trust the ministry again? We have admitted our mistakes in the past, even about our debt and marriages which should have been kept private. Why not you, when it should NOT be kept private?

I speak for many in four or five branches and other people around the country we have talked to when I say that if the ministry as an organization doesn’t come clean about the wrong doctrine and false revelations of LCM soon, this once great ministry will some day be reduced to three BOT’s and a handful of brainwashed servants. May God bring it back to the calling he has called us to. We will continue to stand for the time being because we still believe this is where God’s household is. But we have doubts as to whether TWI even represents the household any more. Are we alone?

You will see that in contrast to the internet crowd, we do not care as a group about LCM's flings. Flings plural ~ we're not stupid, we just don't think that is our business. We only care that the ministry moves forward and returns to the word as its only rule of faith and practice and stops making excuses. Egos and ministry tradition and past doctrine be damned. If it's wrong, burn it.

I believe that you will do the right thing. That is why we picked the name Fowl Play – we are using the Grease Spot Cafe chicken method of hiding our identities because individuals can be shouted down and ignored and when they speak up they are marked and avoided. We are coming here not because we support the whining and crying and rumors that goes on here, but because it seems like individual believers have no clout even when we speak the rightly divided Word.

This is where thousands of disciples still in will see that they are not alone if they distrust the leaders agenda at the ~top~. It is sad that cop outs tell us more than our own leaders do, but we have to weed it out when we get it from them. Why not the unvarnished truth for a change? From the people we are supposed to trust?

The local leaders here and elsewhere are dynamic spirit-led people but there hands are tied today to teach the rightly divided word. They have to toe the party line or be denied there rights to be ministers as God has called them.

I believe this will be our last message here. If it isn’t the last it will be because our *ministry* has abandoned the Word and the internet backbiters were partly right. If the ministry does not come clean to it's disciples ~ some of us have 20 and 30 year recoginitions and hate what has become of our ministry in the last 5 or 6 years but how can you leave after investing so much ~ this will be followed by many more with our real names so you know the individuals you have betrayed. If this happens it will not be because we turned our back on God. It will be because you did. Consider this a petition and notice of probation.

Don't count your chickens because they are flying the coop

[railroader]

;) Thank you to fowl play and especially to Belle for posting this. The comments expressed here are so descriptive of what a lot of us are feeling. So much has changed since VPW fell asleep and most of it, i regret to say, has been for the worse. They say that they are kinder & gentler, yet they continue to DICTATE what the household can & cannot do. This is not what this ministry was supposed to represent. Yet, as members & leadership continue looking for the exit, Rosie & company acvt as though everything is peachy keen. I haver talked to others & they are watching very carefully & waitning very patiently. I for one have had to resort to legal means to try & stop some things that I have had to deal with. To all those still in that read this, I say watch your step & your back. The goon squad IS watching what you do always.....

Edited October 19, 2005 by railroader

[GarthP2000]

That individual is going to be given the bum's rush in a very short order. ..... Count on it.

<_<

[likeaneagle]

wow---Belle, I am speechless....spiritual wakeup calling.hope its not ignored..alot of those in have a huge heart, most of us that left in recent years know what we gave..they are seeing it too!! At this point it serves no purpose to God, when they lead people into bondage, like many of us who left in the last decade, those who flew earlier saw warning signs......my heart goes out to us all here and in.......they need to know God loves us no matter what...

[JustSayNO]

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fowl Play- You hit the nail "Square" on the head for innies.

Edited October 20, 2005 by JustSayNO

[Belle]

That letter is from 2001. I was looking for something else when I came across it. I saved a bunch of things from WayDale and GSpot that I related to. This was one of those things.

Looks like TWI is still playing the same games. New ministry? Hardly!

I hope Fowl Play and all involved got out of TWI safely and with families in tact.

[WordWolf]

Martin Niemoeller:

" First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out-

because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out-

because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out-

because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-

because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me-

and there was no one left to speak out for me."

[dmiller]

If they (~we~) have their advanced class status taken away from them, they will not care any more and may just leave on their own.....

AC status taken away, eh? I keep forgetting that it's a status thing, rather than a benchmark of *biblical learning*.

If AC *status* can be taken away (which was earned), I wonder if the *Rev* title can be taken away (which was bestowed).

That was a mighty fine letter. From 2001, eh? Hope they are out and happy by now. :)

David

[dmiller]

..they need to know God loves us no matter what...

Likeaeagle --- Many here (excluding the agnostics and atheists) have come to exactly that conclusion, and it is *living* for us in a much larger way than it did in twi. Now we are not forced to do things, but can operate freely without being under such stringent guidlines as enforced by Church twi.

We now attend meetings if we wish, of our choosing, because we can.

We now give money from the heart to churches, because we decide how much.

We now are active in communities and doing good in them, since we are free from *legalism*.

We can give to charities of our choosing, whether or not they are *good* or the *best*.

We can talk to folks about God and Bible, with no ulterior motives of *signing them up* for the class.

We can even give money to the panhandler on the street, and believe that God honors that gift.

We can do a lot of things now that were *un-available* to do before. Twi is a non-entity, while God is still a big entity (to some of us), and the freedom found outside the cage that twi put us in is both refreshing, as well as extremely rewarding.

You said -- "God loves us no matter what". I not only agree with this, but I would take this a step further, and say that He might just love us a bit more, now that we are doing more.

As Song used to say --- *Just a thot!* :)

David

Edited October 20, 2005 by dmiller

[templelady]

We are coming here not because we support the whining and crying and rumors that goes on here, but because it seems like individual believers have no clout even when we speak the rightly divided Word.

It breaks my heart -not because I am one of the Whining and crying--but that any person should have so little faith in their church that they should have to go to outsiders to be heard. That is like a Member of the Sunni Islamists going to the Shiites to be heard. Or a Roman Catholic having to go the Baptists. So tremendously sad

Edited October 20, 2005 by templelady

[Allan]

Or like the 'splinter' groups of breakaway LDS

[Morgan]

What are you, Templelady's personal stalker? Sheesh, doesn't it ever get old!

[GarthP2000]

Can you imagine the kind of 'god' that Allan makes an example of with posts like his? Kinda like TWI's 'god'.

Or, to put it in the immortal words of one George Carlin, "This isn't the kind of work you'd expect from a Supreme Being. This is more like the kind of .... you get from an office temp with a bad attitude!"

B)

Edited October 20, 2005 by GarthP2000

[DooWap]

Allan,

I'll take this up with you in a personal message. You'll have to lay off following Templelady around and harrassing her about the LDS.

DooWap (moderator)

[railroader]

To garthP and any other doubting Thomas's: They are going to shoot themselves in the foot if they try giving us a bum's rush. All the necessary paperwork is sitting in a US Attorney's hands, just waiting for the right time to land. Hope they have seatbelts on because it will be a nasty, bumpy ride for someone besides the believers this time.

[GarthP2000]

Railroader,

I hope you're right, but due to previous incidents, the bum's rush was frequently given to just about all of those who brought up the crap that went on in TWI, including all the way back into the late 70's-early 80's under Wierwille. And Rosilee is no exception to the 'goosestep to our tune or get out' crowd.

[Belle]

Any updates, Railroader?

Does all this sound familiar to those of you most recently out of TWI? How about you CESpool escapees?

[railroader II]

To Belle and everyone else, I wish I could be the bearer of good news but I think NOT!!! Our own little war continues while we solidify our case. The wheels of justice do move slowly at times, yet I trust advice of counsel more than I trust what is spewing from hq right now. From our view, they continue to love you with one hand while the other is either picking your pocket or trying to rip your heart out and make you feel like s**t in the process. Some LC's are actually nice, yet HFC's are very devious to you. God help the innies because r*s** & company are sure not going to.

[Nottawayfer]

I have an innie friend who questions their involvement in TWI daily. They don't leave because they dont' believe there is anywhere else to go. I remind them that TWI isn't exclusive to God or His Word and that there are other reputable places who do a fine job with teaching and fellowship.

This person is irritated that they can now attend the Advanced Class Special being ran in their Branch. It is tapes from a previous one. The irritation is because the person could NOT attend the ACS live because they were in debt. They are still in debt, but now are welcome to attend it in their Branch (for $50). Can you say their rules are frikkin' crazy? Where is the logic in that?

HUH ROSA-LIE??????

Edited January 9, 2007 by Nottawayfer

[dmiller]

I have an innie friend who questions their involvement in TWI daily. They don't leave because they dont' believe there is anywhere else to go. I remind them that TWI isn't exclusive to God or His Word and that there are other reputable places who do a fine job with teaching and fellowship.

This person is irritated that they can now attend the Advanced Class Special being ran in their Branch. It is tapes from a previous one. The irritation is because the person could NOT attend the ACS live because they were in debt. They are still in debt, but now are welcome to attend it in their Branch (for $50). Can you say their rules are frikkin' crazy? Where is the logic in that?

HUH ROSA-LIE??????

Sounds like the org is running low on cash/ new *abundant sharings* ---

and are now accepting it where and when they can get it.

Just my IMO, as usual. ;)

[bliss]

OUTWARD ONLY

Is the change you'll see.

I just got a lovely Christmas, I mean, HO HO card fron a Way Disciple (Corps intern) on the field right now.

Since I am a ''cop out'' they keep everything oh so pretty for me.

But, seems that they have "seen many deliverances and miracles."

Oh, and ''the fellowships are tender NOW".

I am sure.

It's the innies on the field that know that they are to LOVE GOD and NEIGHBOR.

Unfortunately, the ''vehicle'' they use to bring that love is full of EVIL!

I pray for God to show them a ''better way''.

A Way OUT!

[potato]

what I've been hearing is that twi doesn't want to lose more people, and they aren't attracting new people, so they're changing policy to try to keep people around. of course they can't come out and say twi policy is/was bull-doo, so they just quietly change it on the sly and and never explain themselves. at least lcm had a plausible excuse for making up dumb rules... you know, God told him.

[Kevlar2000]

But, seems that they have "seen many deliverances and miracles."

Bliss (and anyone else, really),

Do they ever specify the "deliverances and miracles" they've seen?

[bliss]

Kevlar-

I'd say NOPE!

What I did get was a '' we are so busy and have soooooooo many victories and stories to elaborate on

BUT IT WOULD TAKE TOO LONG!"

[coolchef]

i am sure they tell the one about the blind guy my ex wife ministered to

he got his vision back and walked blindly into a tree.

are there healings?

i think so

but many phony ones to