I've never been able to understand why anyone was surprised at this letter. Wierwille never allowed the degree of dissension in the ranks that Martindale was dealing with.
TWI was never run in any way other than despotic, one-man, top-down, no-argument, quasi-dictatorship. Whatever you think of the godliness of the doctrine, TWI was never a democracy, and never pretended to be.
It is unrealistic to have expected that Wierwille's spiritual heir would behave in any other way than how he did
It is interesting that during this time period that allagations of sexual misconduct or any other type of did not surface (or surface to the point that I heard of such things).
either:
1. No misconduct conduct was happening
2. No body knew of any misconduct
3. All parties were involved in misconduct.
I draw the comparison to the relationship between lcm and cg to the United States and the Soviet Union.
Both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R had high power weapons and were set in a position to use them, therefore they/we didn't...
I wonder if lcm and cg have enough information/documentation that was "set in the ready" on each other that there were some areas that they were both reluctant to bring "to light"?
We may never know all the details of everything that happened...
I believe that there are still many secrets that have yet to be revealed.
The more I read that letter the more I agree with it.
The 'mindset of total suspicion' was so true of that day and time, among other things he wrote.
Looking back...
It is interesting that during this time period that allagations of sexual misconduct or any other type of did not surface (or surface to the point that I heard of such things). ...
Right on.
That's why the whole penchant accusatory mindset was based on suspicion. Nothing much concrete.
“God’s Word says that knowledge puffeth up and charity edifieth. Where is your heart going? Where is your tenderness, love and compassion? Where is your “longsuffering and doctrine”? I see very little, if any, in many of the lives of those who have become so inclined. Love covers a multitude of sins, not knowledge, or personality, or techniques, or discipline. Jesus taught his men they’d be recognized as his disciples by their love, not their adamancy, egotism or knowledge.”
Where was the love and the longsuffering under craig’s reign? Where is it now? Love only covers a multitude of sins when it comes to craig and the BOD when it comes to TWI. And, funny, he says that Jesus taught that his disciples would be recognized by their love when he and all his henchmen were never accused of being loving, much less too loving, despite what he claims…
“….I have been patient and longsuffering many times to a fault….. Some adamantly believe that I have not changed and am out of alignment and harmony with God and His Word. I have done all I know to do to live and share the Word of God. If that’s not enough evidence to convince you that I have changed, then I have nothing else to do but to invite you to leave.”
So, Craig has really NEVER been in “alignment and harmony” since we already know his pattern of behavior during his tenure. It appears as though at least at one time he did recognize that and admit to it. Pity he didn’t really change.
“Another major category of ‘Phariseeism’, as I call it here, is this whole penchant, mind-set, and lust to catch a man in his words.”
Gee, craig, where did they learn that? Seems it was a requirement for your WC and leaders on the field.
“It is a shame that some people have consequently discountinued abundant sharing at all and are not reaping the promies of God in that category, and in fact, are reaping the consequences of unbelief.”
If that’s not spiritual blackmail and threatenings regarding NOT giving our money to TWI, then I don’t know what is. Right there – clear as day – he’s telling people that if you don’t give your abundant sharing (not tithe, even) – then you’re gonna reap the consequences of unbelief. What are the consequences of unbelief? According to TWI, sickness, accidents, job losses even death.
“Let me add that the Board of Trustess plans to continue supporting the programs and activities that Dr. Wierwille began……”
And that lasted how long? Five years maybe???
Sounds like an advertisement for keeping him as president, if you ask me.
The Trustees are aware that some Staff members have been suggesting and even advising that abundant sharings received in our Twigs in the U.S.A. be sent to Argentina or Scotland. That is unethical, dishonest, and certainly contrary to the expressed desire and actions of Dr. Wierwille, and quite simply should not be done.
What do you think about twiggies abs money going to Scotland and Argentina?
Honest? ethical? Fostering suspicion ya think?
And most of the people advocating this were on the U.S.A. payroll.
That was one of the many reasons why he had to draw the line.
People needed to make a decision where they stood.
There were later court cases with lcm as the defendant.
I understand the letter as a cold hard business document, and a document that on one hand is pleading for sympathy and stroking lcm's ego at the same time. It almost seems like it the type of document someone would use as if they were trying to run a con :huh:
That letter is an importand document!
As a result of that letter, and the aftermath of that letter I left twi.
It is interesting that during this time period that allagations of sexual misconduct or any other type of did not surface (or surface to the point that I heard of such things). ...
Could it be that this was becasue Geer himself was a former front man for VPW's and possibly LCM's sexual escapades? It would have been in both Geer's and LCM's best interests to supress or keep this kind of stuff quiet.
I heard quite a bit in the mid/late - late 70s and early 80's about sexual "misconduct" at HQ. Only it was represented to me as "freedom in Christ" or meeting the needs of the MOG. I heard rumors of orgies/ wife swapping between the higher ups at HQ as early as 77 or 78. More freedom in Christ.
Try critiquing the letter according only to the time period and context it was written.
Ok, the context. Let's see now.
An abusive and ungodly religious leader attempting to maintain control of a corrupt multimillion dollar religious organization, while keeping it out of the control or another abusive and ungodly religious leader who would have it for himself to control.
Future actions are inapplicable, in my judgment.
Future actions speak loudly as the to motivation behind previous actions. Ignoring them is foolish.
I think this letter is right on.
That's not surprising at all.
What problems happening later, Craigs tantrums, hard meanness, and hurtful actions and screwups have nothing to do with this.
Craig's whining about money going elsewhere is just that - selfish whining, imo. Didn't vee pee cause a great break-up and destruction of The Way East and the Way West by demanding that all money come to hq instead of each twig being self-sufficient as he touted at one time? ;)
The second part of his whining is NOT about the money going elsewhere, it's about people not giving at all. He's complaining and threatening people because he's not getting their money. Two separate issues, imo.
I don't know for sure because I wasn't there, but weren't people at one time encouraged to send their ABS directly to NK?
If God says to give as you purposeth in your heart, then it shouldn't matter where the money goes as long as you're giving, right? Then why on earth should craig care if people are giving to other places? Because he wants it all.
Try critiquing the letter according only to the time period and context it was written.
Craig was already abusing people; playing power games and acting like he was God almighty at this time. His future actions only became more public because he got caught and because we have the internet to expose them.
He was no different then. He even admits it himself by saying that he changed. If he had been right on to begin with, there would have been no need for change. Besides that, he didn't change even though he said he did, he just became twice the child of Hell than he was during this time.
Have you been asleep or just ignoring all the talk about how he pushed vee pee to the side and quit respecting him once craig had access to the throne and the ring kissing TWIts himself?
I heard quite a bit in the mid/late - late 70s and early 80's about sexual "misconduct" at HQ. Only it was represented to me as "freedom in Christ" or meeting the needs of the MOG. I heard rumors of orgies/ wife swapping between the higher ups at HQ as early as 77 or 78. More freedom in Christ.
Goey, lots and lots of folks never heard about this stuff until the 90's, myself included. Perhaps if they did, they may have followed your example.
But this has nothing to do with the letter, which was a call for unity and teamwork.
Oldies,
I beg to differ. You said
Loyboy was seen in a tantrum. exhibiting hard meanness and other "loving" things that summer in 1989 at the advanced class
Still has nothing to do with the letter.
If folks wanted to leave because Craig threw a tantrum, they could have left, before or after the letter.
Goey said:
Ok, the context. Let's see now.
An abusive and ungodly religious leader attempting to maintain control of a corrupt multimillion dollar religious organization, while keeping it out of the control or another abusive and ungodly religious leader who would have it for himself to control.
At that point in time in which he wrote the letter, he wasn't necessarily abusive and ungodly.
Additionally, do you allow that maybe God can forgive past sins of people in their life who want to make a fresh start moving the Word and being in fellowship with God and people?
How do you know Craig wasn't at that point?
Craig said he endeavored to heed the godly reproof and correction.
If you don't believe him, that's your prerogative.
Craig's whining about money going elsewhere is just that - selfish whining, imo. Didn't vee pee cause a great break-up and destruction of The Way East and the Way West by demanding that all money come to hq instead of each twig being self-sufficient as he touted at one time? ;)
The second part of his whining is NOT about the money going elsewhere, it's about people not giving at all. He's complaining and threatening people because he's not getting their money. Two separate issues, imo.
I don't know for sure because I wasn't there, but weren't people at one time encouraged to send their ABS directly to NK?
If God says to give as you purposeth in your heart, then it shouldn't matter where the money goes as long as you're giving, right? Then why on earth should craig care if people are giving to other places? Because he wants it all.
Craig was already abusing people; playing power games and acting like he was God almighty at this time. His future actions only became more public because he got caught and because we have the internet to expose them.
He was no different then. He even admits it himself by saying that he changed. If he had been right on to begin with, there would have been no need for change. Besides that, he didn't change even though he said he did, he just became twice the child of Hell than he was during this time.
Have you been asleep or just ignoring all the talk about how he pushed vee pee to the side and quit respecting him once craig had access to the throne and the ring kissing TWIts himself?
The point was people were sending money to Scotland and Argentina because they were thinking that the Board of Trustees were evil and worshipping other gods.
What Craig did was basically said "this is wrong thinking, make up your mind because I am not evil and worshipping other gods, and make up your mind to stand with me or someone else".
I see nothing wrong with that.
Craig said "...so make up your mind whether you are going to stand with us as Staff moving God's Word or go the route that has been set in the last couple of years, which I believe has gone very sour."
Yes, he is admitting that the route was sour, and it was probably his fault for blabbing his big mouth all around about POP.
But, the letter is a call for unity and teamwork.
It's like Joe Torre asking the Yankees to stand with him to win the world series, even if you know Torre might have been a bad manager in the past.
Craig is not a child of hell, he's a born again believer who blew his responsibilities in Christ.
At that point in time in which he wrote the letter, he wasn't necessarily abusive and ungodly.
His documented actions indicate otherwise.
Additionally, do you allow that maybe God can forgive past sins of people in their life who want to make a fresh start moving the Word and being in fellowship with God and people?
God does forgive those who are truly repentant. Craig's actions ( not his words) did not indicate change/ repentance. Moving the word? From my prospective, TWI as an organization was never really involved in "moving the word". It was more about building an empire.
How do you know Craig wasn't at that point?
I think we are dealing more in what was likely than what is absolute fact in regards to reasons and motives. Based upon the context and history of TWI, VPW, Martindale and Geer, and upon my consideration of eye-witness accounts from what I believe to be reliable sources, I think it is very likely much closer to what I have laid out than what you have suggested.
Craig said he endeavored to heed the godly reproof and correction.
So he said.
If you don't believe him, that's your prerogative.
I think the fact that LCM did exactly what those of us who left said he would do is evidence of the true nature and value of the letter. Oldiesman can only agree with the letter if he deliberately ignores everything that followed.
I can understand how someone would, in the Spring of 1989, see that letter and agree with Oldiesman's arguments. They make perfect sense in that light. But to tell us that we cannot consider what happened next in determining the value of the letter is foolhardy, ignorant, down-right DUMB. Martindale's actions following the issuance of that letter validated his critics. This was no stand on God's Word. It was a proclamation of tyrranical authority, evidenced by the fact that he followed the letter by ruling like a tyrant.
Oldies if the fellowships were self governing self propergating and self supporting as per the Way Tree then if that was the decision of the fellowship it is their money they can send it where they want. They should inform everyone as such and if they did not want to do that then they could send their money elsewhere. We sent money both places for awhile which ever people wanted it to go because we had some who wanted to send theirs to each so we offered both. Whats the problem with that?
Oh and by the way a side note I sent a check three times to the Limb trying to get them to accept the letter and their money it came back twice the third time they had to sign for it ,they never cashed the check but Craig somehow thought it ok in his letter to accuse us of stealing their ABS. Hell!! I was begging for him to take it . Jerk.....
Re Craig: He was not, acting in any kind of loving manner. He was evil and had no desire to change his path. He consistently turned his back on and fired those who offered their help to him. He admitted he was in a fog for years and that he was wrong in his running of the ministry. Why would someone want to play on a team who's leadership was lost and in that state?
Another part of this letter said Quote
If your not willing to give the Board of Trustees an honest and basic "benefit of the doubt" in decisions made and policies set, then I can not work with you. So many things are just simply a difference of opinion,
Here is what I wrote in the margin of my letter about that:
Now this is from a person who had just admitted that he was in a fog and had failed his responsibility in running things, why in God's name would I want to accept his "benefit of the doubt" when they proved to be in error the past few years? And why tell me are we basing things on opinions anyway? I thought we were to base our decisions on the Word of God ,since when has this changed and is this not a clear example of why your thinking is not sound. Perhaps a review of Commitment to Truth and The Christians Joy and Crown by VPW would be in order. I think it talks about being of one mind not several opinions. It also speaks of knowledge being available so we are not left to lean on our understanding. This is a clear indication of the state of thinking of The president of the Way. No change! after all this time still thinking by the senses which is exactly by the way what Craig said earlier in the letter that Chris Geer told him. Looks like it is true to me.
Raf is exactly right and speaking of things comming true here is another one from VP himself In The POP
"If Craig does not come back to the integrity of the Word then before too long he will begin to blame others around him for lacking spiritual perception and will begin to blame the loss of power in the Ministry on others. I've seen it before and I see it in the Word. . He will start to lash out wrongly. It will hurt so many.It will sound genuine, but it will not bring deliverance to those who follow what he says. Spiritually they will be empty words. Once God's Word is compromised in any way it no longer is God's true Word. You have error, and error is error.
"I have fought this thing all my life. I know what I am talking about. I have seen it in the Church, the mission fields and in other ministries. Paul faced the exact same thing. Outwardly they salsam you and slobber all over you, but without a solid Biblical footing you flounder. He'll be grabbing at straws. I sure wish I could do something for those who will be around him when it happens, if he doesn't get back to the truth of the Word. The further you drift the worse it gets. Look how far Saul went when he stopped lovingly listening to Samuel.
Oldies, I most likely got saved as a result of folks in TWI. I dedicated 2 years of my life as a WOW Ambassador, giving up a carreer to do so. I stood faithfully with TWI for about 7 years, it being the central thing in my life. I got great benefits from my time in TWI.
Sorry for the derail.
I just get all warm and fuzzy and excited when I read that. :lol:
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templelady
GOLLl DURN IT!!!
There ya'll went saying that the emperor had no clothes
For Shame
Poor Craig his ME ME ME ME is so sad, I feel so Bad
I mean how dare anyone complain that he hadn't changed when he hadn't changed. Real devilment there--pointing out the truth and all
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Oakspear
I've never been able to understand why anyone was surprised at this letter. Wierwille never allowed the degree of dissension in the ranks that Martindale was dealing with.
TWI was never run in any way other than despotic, one-man, top-down, no-argument, quasi-dictatorship. Whatever you think of the godliness of the doctrine, TWI was never a democracy, and never pretended to be.
It is unrealistic to have expected that Wierwille's spiritual heir would behave in any other way than how he did
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outofdafog
Talk about hypocrisy.......good grief.......he's the one that took it to the top of the legalism chart....
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Zshot
Looking back...
It is interesting that during this time period that allagations of sexual misconduct or any other type of did not surface (or surface to the point that I heard of such things).
either:
1. No misconduct conduct was happening
2. No body knew of any misconduct
3. All parties were involved in misconduct.
I draw the comparison to the relationship between lcm and cg to the United States and the Soviet Union.
Both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R had high power weapons and were set in a position to use them, therefore they/we didn't...
I wonder if lcm and cg have enough information/documentation that was "set in the ready" on each other that there were some areas that they were both reluctant to bring "to light"?
We may never know all the details of everything that happened...
I believe that there are still many secrets that have yet to be revealed.
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oldiesman
The more I read that letter the more I agree with it.
The 'mindset of total suspicion' was so true of that day and time, among other things he wrote.
Right on.That's why the whole penchant accusatory mindset was based on suspicion. Nothing much concrete.
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Belle
Irony of ironies:
“God’s Word says that knowledge puffeth up and charity edifieth. Where is your heart going? Where is your tenderness, love and compassion? Where is your “longsuffering and doctrine”? I see very little, if any, in many of the lives of those who have become so inclined. Love covers a multitude of sins, not knowledge, or personality, or techniques, or discipline. Jesus taught his men they’d be recognized as his disciples by their love, not their adamancy, egotism or knowledge.”
Where was the love and the longsuffering under craig’s reign? Where is it now? Love only covers a multitude of sins when it comes to craig and the BOD when it comes to TWI. And, funny, he says that Jesus taught that his disciples would be recognized by their love when he and all his henchmen were never accused of being loving, much less too loving, despite what he claims…
“….I have been patient and longsuffering many times to a fault….. Some adamantly believe that I have not changed and am out of alignment and harmony with God and His Word. I have done all I know to do to live and share the Word of God. If that’s not enough evidence to convince you that I have changed, then I have nothing else to do but to invite you to leave.”
So, Craig has really NEVER been in “alignment and harmony” since we already know his pattern of behavior during his tenure. It appears as though at least at one time he did recognize that and admit to it. Pity he didn’t really change.
“Another major category of ‘Phariseeism’, as I call it here, is this whole penchant, mind-set, and lust to catch a man in his words.”
Gee, craig, where did they learn that? Seems it was a requirement for your WC and leaders on the field.
“It is a shame that some people have consequently discountinued abundant sharing at all and are not reaping the promies of God in that category, and in fact, are reaping the consequences of unbelief.”
If that’s not spiritual blackmail and threatenings regarding NOT giving our money to TWI, then I don’t know what is. Right there – clear as day – he’s telling people that if you don’t give your abundant sharing (not tithe, even) – then you’re gonna reap the consequences of unbelief. What are the consequences of unbelief? According to TWI, sickness, accidents, job losses even death.
“Let me add that the Board of Trustess plans to continue supporting the programs and activities that Dr. Wierwille began……”
And that lasted how long? Five years maybe???
Sounds like an advertisement for keeping him as president, if you ask me.
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oldiesman
Belle you neglected to quote this part re: ABS:
What do you think about twiggies abs money going to Scotland and Argentina?
Honest? ethical? Fostering suspicion ya think?
And most of the people advocating this were on the U.S.A. payroll.
That was one of the many reasons why he had to draw the line.
People needed to make a decision where they stood.
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Zshot
I guess that I should have added....
There were later court cases with lcm as the defendant.
I understand the letter as a cold hard business document, and a document that on one hand is pleading for sympathy and stroking lcm's ego at the same time. It almost seems like it the type of document someone would use as if they were trying to run a con :huh:
That letter is an importand document!
As a result of that letter, and the aftermath of that letter I left twi.
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oldiesman
Try critiquing the letter according only to the time period and context it was written.
Future actions are inapplicable, in my judgment.
I think this letter is right on.
What problems happening later, Craigs tantrums, hard meanness, and hurtful actions and screwups have nothing to do with this.
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Goey
Could it be that this was becasue Geer himself was a former front man for VPW's and possibly LCM's sexual escapades? It would have been in both Geer's and LCM's best interests to supress or keep this kind of stuff quiet.
I heard quite a bit in the mid/late - late 70s and early 80's about sexual "misconduct" at HQ. Only it was represented to me as "freedom in Christ" or meeting the needs of the MOG. I heard rumors of orgies/ wife swapping between the higher ups at HQ as early as 77 or 78. More freedom in Christ.
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penguin
Oldies,
I beg to differ. You said
Loyboy was seen in a tantrum. exhibiting hard meanness and other "loving" things that summer in 1989 at the advanced class
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Goey
Ok, the context. Let's see now.
An abusive and ungodly religious leader attempting to maintain control of a corrupt multimillion dollar religious organization, while keeping it out of the control or another abusive and ungodly religious leader who would have it for himself to control.
Future actions speak loudly as the to motivation behind previous actions. Ignoring them is foolish. That's not surprising at all. So you say.
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Belle
OM,
Craig's whining about money going elsewhere is just that - selfish whining, imo. Didn't vee pee cause a great break-up and destruction of The Way East and the Way West by demanding that all money come to hq instead of each twig being self-sufficient as he touted at one time? ;)
The second part of his whining is NOT about the money going elsewhere, it's about people not giving at all. He's complaining and threatening people because he's not getting their money. Two separate issues, imo.
I don't know for sure because I wasn't there, but weren't people at one time encouraged to send their ABS directly to NK?
If God says to give as you purposeth in your heart, then it shouldn't matter where the money goes as long as you're giving, right? Then why on earth should craig care if people are giving to other places? Because he wants it all.
Craig was already abusing people; playing power games and acting like he was God almighty at this time. His future actions only became more public because he got caught and because we have the internet to expose them.
He was no different then. He even admits it himself by saying that he changed. If he had been right on to begin with, there would have been no need for change. Besides that, he didn't change even though he said he did, he just became twice the child of Hell than he was during this time.
Have you been asleep or just ignoring all the talk about how he pushed vee pee to the side and quit respecting him once craig had access to the throne and the ring kissing TWIts himself?
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oldiesman
But this has nothing to do with the letter, which was a call for unity and teamwork.
Still has nothing to do with the letter.If folks wanted to leave because Craig threw a tantrum, they could have left, before or after the letter.
At that point in time in which he wrote the letter, he wasn't necessarily abusive and ungodly.Additionally, do you allow that maybe God can forgive past sins of people in their life who want to make a fresh start moving the Word and being in fellowship with God and people?
How do you know Craig wasn't at that point?
Craig said he endeavored to heed the godly reproof and correction.
If you don't believe him, that's your prerogative.
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oldiesman
What Craig did was basically said "this is wrong thinking, make up your mind because I am not evil and worshipping other gods, and make up your mind to stand with me or someone else".
I see nothing wrong with that.
Craig said "...so make up your mind whether you are going to stand with us as Staff moving God's Word or go the route that has been set in the last couple of years, which I believe has gone very sour."
Yes, he is admitting that the route was sour, and it was probably his fault for blabbing his big mouth all around about POP.
But, the letter is a call for unity and teamwork.
It's like Joe Torre asking the Yankees to stand with him to win the world series, even if you know Torre might have been a bad manager in the past.
Craig is not a child of hell, he's a born again believer who blew his responsibilities in Christ.
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Goey
So he said. A perogative that I freely exercise.Link to comment
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WordWolf
Not only have we discussed this before,
but I posted the OTHER letter once in its entirety.
As to the previous discussions,
I clicked one up to the top.
As to the OTHER letter, I can't find it.
The OTHER letter was the one where lcm
sent it to EVERYONE-not just the staff-
and said they were firing everyone.
As it turned out, he made specific
allegations against the people he was
firing-that they didn't love Christ,
that they worked for greed-
and yet people in different states
all got the SAME letter
where only the NAMES were changed.
ALL the people had EXACTLY the same
issues? No, lcm felt like making a blanket
accusation, so he did. I'm confident he
was personally unfamiliar with most of
the people he was accusing.
I'll have to dig out the old letter and repost it.
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Goey
It has been told to me by quite a few folks that they replied to the letter with something like:
Aparantly this was not good enough as Martindale dismissed these folks from staff.
Why?
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Raf
I think the fact that LCM did exactly what those of us who left said he would do is evidence of the true nature and value of the letter. Oldiesman can only agree with the letter if he deliberately ignores everything that followed.
I can understand how someone would, in the Spring of 1989, see that letter and agree with Oldiesman's arguments. They make perfect sense in that light. But to tell us that we cannot consider what happened next in determining the value of the letter is foolhardy, ignorant, down-right DUMB. Martindale's actions following the issuance of that letter validated his critics. This was no stand on God's Word. It was a proclamation of tyrranical authority, evidenced by the fact that he followed the letter by ruling like a tyrant.
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WhiteDove
Oldies if the fellowships were self governing self propergating and self supporting as per the Way Tree then if that was the decision of the fellowship it is their money they can send it where they want. They should inform everyone as such and if they did not want to do that then they could send their money elsewhere. We sent money both places for awhile which ever people wanted it to go because we had some who wanted to send theirs to each so we offered both. Whats the problem with that?
Oh and by the way a side note I sent a check three times to the Limb trying to get them to accept the letter and their money it came back twice the third time they had to sign for it ,they never cashed the check but Craig somehow thought it ok in his letter to accuse us of stealing their ABS. Hell!! I was begging for him to take it . Jerk.....
Re Craig: He was not, acting in any kind of loving manner. He was evil and had no desire to change his path. He consistently turned his back on and fired those who offered their help to him. He admitted he was in a fog for years and that he was wrong in his running of the ministry. Why would someone want to play on a team who's leadership was lost and in that state?
Another part of this letter said Quote
If your not willing to give the Board of Trustees an honest and basic "benefit of the doubt" in decisions made and policies set, then I can not work with you. So many things are just simply a difference of opinion,
Here is what I wrote in the margin of my letter about that:
Now this is from a person who had just admitted that he was in a fog and had failed his responsibility in running things, why in God's name would I want to accept his "benefit of the doubt" when they proved to be in error the past few years? And why tell me are we basing things on opinions anyway? I thought we were to base our decisions on the Word of God ,since when has this changed and is this not a clear example of why your thinking is not sound. Perhaps a review of Commitment to Truth and The Christians Joy and Crown by VPW would be in order. I think it talks about being of one mind not several opinions. It also speaks of knowledge being available so we are not left to lean on our understanding. This is a clear indication of the state of thinking of The president of the Way. No change! after all this time still thinking by the senses which is exactly by the way what Craig said earlier in the letter that Chris Geer told him. Looks like it is true to me.
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WhiteDove
Raf is exactly right and speaking of things comming true here is another one from VP himself In The POP
"If Craig does not come back to the integrity of the Word then before too long he will begin to blame others around him for lacking spiritual perception and will begin to blame the loss of power in the Ministry on others. I've seen it before and I see it in the Word. . He will start to lash out wrongly. It will hurt so many. It will sound genuine, but it will not bring deliverance to those who follow what he says. Spiritually they will be empty words. Once God's Word is compromised in any way it no longer is God's true Word. You have error, and error is error.
"I have fought this thing all my life. I know what I am talking about. I have seen it in the Church, the mission fields and in other ministries. Paul faced the exact same thing. Outwardly they salsam you and slobber all over you, but without a solid Biblical footing you flounder. He'll be grabbing at straws. I sure wish I could do something for those who will be around him when it happens, if he doesn't get back to the truth of the Word. The further you drift the worse it gets. Look how far Saul went when he stopped lovingly listening to Samuel.
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oldiesman
Goey said from another thread:
Sorry for the derail.
I just get all warm and fuzzy and excited when I read that. :lol:
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Zshot
OM,
If this makes you feel good...
twi, more specifically many of the people i knew in twi at one time were a great blessing to me an my life.
Later on, I started of the bad things that were being done within twi...
A fair question could be...
Did the good things that happened while in absolve the bad that was done? IMO, no. The abuse that was done to so many can never be justified.
If twi was a Godly ministery, none of it's people should have suffered.
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