1. after this so called training at the ROA, we were sent to find and meet our "new wow family". I want to know how in the F*** was the decision made as to who was with whom?!?!?!?!
2. I also want to know on how they decided who was going where? I understand that twi had it own interest in where they wanted to send bodies. However, these bodies were people! It seems they didn't care about the people when it came down to assigning locations.
3. Did anybody else think that working "part time" was a stupid idea!!! My "wow" family had financial problems all year because we all tried to be "good little wow's" and work part time jobs. I finally said to myself, "F*** THIS"! And got a full time job.
I was a wow from 82-83 in Bossier City, LA. This was the worst year of my life! To this day, I have avoided setting my foot in that state.
The people who decided who whould be with whom and where they would go showed the they were not communicating with the one true God when they made there decisions.
Part of the inattention paid to who went with whom was due to the fallacy that any two believers, renewing their minds, could live together and get along (similar to the belief that any two standing believers could get married and make it work). How many horror stories are out there of WOW groups who were literally at each others' throats? And don't forget the sexual dynamic: young men and women living together was a serious temptation for many people. How many WOW groups fell apart because they ended up in the sack with each other?
Then they wouldn't be renewing their minds, right?
I think it is possible for believers (who are willing and who practice the principles) to live together for one year.
All it takes is some bible knowledge and gritty resolve. :lol:
Without getting into a doctrinal discussion of what "renewing one's mind" is, no, I disagree. All it takes is one "psycho" in the group, and all the renewing of the mind in the world will not make the situation work out.
I would agree that a group who all shared the same goals and level of maturity and committment could make it work, and many did, but the fact that many WOW groups had one or more troublemakers, or folks who were unsuited in one way or another, speaks to the inability of the "leadership" to properly run the program
Then they wouldn't be renewing their minds, right?
I think it is possible for believers (who are willing and who practice the principles) to live together for one year.
All it takes is some bible knowledge and gritty resolve. :lol:
OM,
Yes, people can live together and they don't even have to be "believers". For example, the military will assign "roommates" to people who are on the same "tour of duty", "same unit" etc... However, the military is smart enough that people have different personalities and some people will have a more difficult time getting along with other people. Therefore, they will change room assignments.
OM said: "I think it is possible for believers (who are willing and who practice the principles) to live together for one year." This could be true.... I noticed that you didn't mention that that year could be the year from hell, or not be enjoyable.... It is possible for any two believers to live together, just like it's possible that Santa Clause will bring me a new BMW for Christmas and the Easter Bunny will bring me a Fabragie (sp) Egg.
1. after this so called training at the ROA, we were sent to find and meet our "new wow family". I want to know how in the F*** was the decision made as to who was with whom?!?!?!?!
2. I also want to know on how they decided who was going where? I understand that twi had it own interest in where they wanted to send bodies. However, these bodies were people! It seems they didn't care about the people when it came down to assigning locations."
===================
See, Zshot,
this is one reason I like to review old threads from time to time.
I KNEW I'd seen the answer to this one SOMEWHERE.
LINDYHOPPER posted it.
===
He was discussing a corps couple that needed relocation...
"Funny story. We are in the corp relo tent or something and we are discussing with the Rev Ander* on where
they can go. It came down to either Dallas, Tx as BC as they were before in FL or twig coor. in the town
I was now in. The rev was our elder corps while we were in residence. So we were down. Well he goes to
talk things over or go abroad or something and it was taking him a while to get back with us.
Meanwhile, we are standing waiting and talking about their options when one Rev. J Rumproast came over
and asked us if he could help. They told him their deal and how they couldn't decide what would be
best.
So, he pulls out a coin and says "This is how we do it in the back...'Heads, it's Dallas, tails it's
B-more.' He smiles as though he is kind of joking but totally serious as though he had been
inspired by God to do this. It was heads! Praise the Lord! Right about the time everyone is shaking hands
and saying our goodbyes to Rev Rump the Rev. Ander-son-of-a comes walking back in. He is p!$$ed...."
============
So,
seems at least ONE method of deciding who goes where was evident.
===================
We have seen a number of accounts of people who WENT wow or interim corps
and at least one person in their "wow family" was a tipped turbolaser who ruined
the entire "wow family" because they were unable or unwilling to function in the
program as told, even after someone took them aside and explained things.
Everything I saw about the program said that anyone who walked up would be
accepted unless they set fire to the Big Top or something.
If the wows went out on Saturday morning,
you had until WEDNESDAY MORNING to decide to go.
I think it's ridiculous to believe that there was a degree of quality control
when they were ready to accept ANYONE who walked in, and sent them
out after 3 days of possible observation and teachings.
So, I have a new question of my own:
Does ANYONE know of ANY person , EVER,
who was REFUSED entry into the wow program for reasons OTHER than not having
their money ready?
Did the management of the program EVER exercise Quality Control and say
"you lack sufficient experience" or "you lack emotional stability" or
"you do not have a mind to work" or "you lack trustworthiness" or any other legit reason
to not send someone into a small cell that relied on the performance of each cell member?
I'd LOVE to hear ANY details of ANY time that happened.
... Therefore, they will change room assignments. ...
Yes but part of the WOW assignment was to be able and willing to live with people who you might not normally get along with.
Keeping that "unity of purpose" formost in your mind was supposed to be more important than individual personalities, and it was to most folks.
What happened if Henry Baloko didn't get along with Maggie Muggins, and they moved Henry to another family, and Suzi Q didn't get along with Henry, and so forth?
Heck, the leadership'd be moving folks back and forth all year long and it'd be one big waste of time.
I think most did a pretty good job under the circumstances.
Oldies I agree in part with you. There where some folks who gave there whole self to the program and left their individuality at the door. When everyone had there egos in check and really strived "in love" to make things happen...it was powerful. Here is where it was not sucessfull. Leadership who stroked their ego with their position of athority and those who had a stong sence of self and would not surcome to BS.
I personally had a great time as a WOW. I was lucky in the leadership catagory and our family was left alone. The area cordinator was to busy else where puting out fires and our family cordiator was not the dominate type. Praise God. We all wanted the same thing and for some reason it all worked out. The majority of my service with TWI was not micro managed and that is why I stayed so long...other than being brainwashed!
In retrospect Oldies I don't belieive it was the research or teaching that brought success. I believe it was the genuine intrest and love that each of us WOWs had for folks. Love that could never be emplimented no matter how many times you teach about. Like VP said, 'It's an inside job" and has nothing to do with the organization. Spirtuality is spirituality...Organization is organization. I think God honors the heart and intent of individuals. Not how much Bible they know or classes runned. I have seen the same success in the church I sometimes attend. It is a Methodist fellowship and is so powerful in their Love for God and eachother, it makes TWI as a whole look awfully bad, present and past.
What happened if Henry Baloko didn't get along with Maggie Muggins, and they moved Henry to another family, and Suzi Q didn't get along with Henry, and so forth?
Heck, the leadership'd be moving folks back and forth all year long and it'd be one big waste of time.
What happened if Henry Baloko physically assaulted Maggie Muggins? Or Snowball Pete was doing coke? Or Suzi Q was banging the guys she was "witnessing" to at the bar? Or Johnny Jump Up Way Corps family Coordinator was making sexual advances to the women in the WOW group? Or was refusing to get a job?
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Not mere personality conflicts.
In retrospect Oldies I don't belieive it was the research or teaching that brought success. I believe it was the genuine intrest and love that each of us WOWs had for folks. Love that could never be emplimented no matter how many times you teach about. ...
Good observation lilbit.
Thanks for sharing.
What happened if Henry Baloko physically assaulted Maggie Muggins? Or Snowball Pete was doing coke? Or Suzi Q was banging the guys she was "witnessing" to at the bar? Or Johnny Jump Up Way Corps family Coordinator was making sexual advances to the women in the WOW group? Or was refusing to get a job?
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Not mere personality conflicts.
To my knowledge physical assaults, drugs, and being a bum wasn't tolerated out WOW.
Sex (other than adultery) was tolerated if consensual and discreet.
OM, I actually started to look up old threads for you, but you know what? You don't care. You won't look at them and it would just start another "victim attack" and justification of TWI on your part. I don't want to go there and I'm not gonna waste my time.
You're gonna believe what you want to believe and "a fool convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." Go ahead. TWI didn't hide, harbor and protect child molesters. They didn't allow psychopaths and criminal people in the WOW program. TWI never hurt a single person. They aren't and never were evil and you wish they hadn't kicked you out. You wish they had fellowship close to your home so you could go back into the fold. It's okay. You're entitled to believe whatever you want to believe - whether it's correct or not. :blink:
I didn't say that evils never happened out WOW, of course evils happened.
What I said was, they weren't tolerated.
What does that mean?
Tolerating evil would mean the leadership would have to condone the same evils happening, again and again and again and again, with no reproof or correction.
Someone beat the crap out of people over and over and over and over and that person got a WOW pin?
Someone doing drugs over and over and over got a WOW pin?
The year I went out WOW (1979-80) we had 2 groups of 4 people. The WC leader was in the other family of 4 than the one i was in. One of the 2 women in my family was put in charge of the family and she put the other female as 2nd under her.
It started out as a good family untill the lady family leader started bringing men to whom she was supposed to be "undersheparding" over for overnight stays to get them into the class.
When the other guy in our family and I started questioning her way of getting members for the class, both her and the other gal said basically "What are you guys going to do about it?? It's none of your concern.".
I thought "boy what a rip!" here me and the other guy was working our a$$es off trying to get people to sign up and the 2 gals were getting laid when VP told us at the WOW training for the gals to "keep your legs crossed and the men to keep it in your pants."
At one point on the field i was almost ready to call it quits and move out, but at the last minute the the waycorp leader for the 2 families convinced me that he didn't want me to leave and he would talk to the family leader. I should have left cause everything turned kind of cold after that.
but oh well, i'm out now and know better than to get into another situation like that again.
If it didn't happen to you or around you, then you are fortunate.
When it did happen, sometimes it was tolerated, sometimes it was not.
But for a program where assignments were touted as being "by revelation", there sure were a lot of problems.
And by the way, even consensual sex was contrary to the rules of the program. You're not saying that WOW's should have been enticing people to PFAL via sex, are you?
I'm not saying that people didn't grow and mature, or that (within the context of TWI's version of what was godly) godly things didn't happen, or that God's Word didn't move on the WOW field, but that no training or oversight caused this to happen.
Well ...all I can say is that it was too bad that the family of wows who were murdered by their family coordinator in Al in 78 or 9 should have simply *renewed their minds* a little better.....it CERTAINLY couldn`t have been the ministries fault for placing those unsuspecting people in harms way....
There probably was some other purpose served.....else God would have told those leaders who were making the choices of placement by spiritual revelation ...no?
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Zshot
Let's look at the wow program a little more....
1. after this so called training at the ROA, we were sent to find and meet our "new wow family". I want to know how in the F*** was the decision made as to who was with whom?!?!?!?!
2. I also want to know on how they decided who was going where? I understand that twi had it own interest in where they wanted to send bodies. However, these bodies were people! It seems they didn't care about the people when it came down to assigning locations.
3. Did anybody else think that working "part time" was a stupid idea!!! My "wow" family had financial problems all year because we all tried to be "good little wow's" and work part time jobs. I finally said to myself, "F*** THIS"! And got a full time job.
I was a wow from 82-83 in Bossier City, LA. This was the worst year of my life! To this day, I have avoided setting my foot in that state.
The people who decided who whould be with whom and where they would go showed the they were not communicating with the one true God when they made there decisions.
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def59
WOW training was a pep rally and torture session all-in-one.
I liked it better when it was done after ROA.
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Oakspear
Part of the inattention paid to who went with whom was due to the fallacy that any two believers, renewing their minds, could live together and get along (similar to the belief that any two standing believers could get married and make it work). How many horror stories are out there of WOW groups who were literally at each others' throats? And don't forget the sexual dynamic: young men and women living together was a serious temptation for many people. How many WOW groups fell apart because they ended up in the sack with each other?
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oldiesman
Then they wouldn't be renewing their minds, right?
I think it is possible for believers (who are willing and who practice the principles) to live together for one year.
All it takes is some bible knowledge and gritty resolve. :lol:
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Oakspear
I would agree that a group who all shared the same goals and level of maturity and committment could make it work, and many did, but the fact that many WOW groups had one or more troublemakers, or folks who were unsuited in one way or another, speaks to the inability of the "leadership" to properly run the program
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Zshot
OM,
Yes, people can live together and they don't even have to be "believers". For example, the military will assign "roommates" to people who are on the same "tour of duty", "same unit" etc... However, the military is smart enough that people have different personalities and some people will have a more difficult time getting along with other people. Therefore, they will change room assignments.
OM said: "I think it is possible for believers (who are willing and who practice the principles) to live together for one year." This could be true.... I noticed that you didn't mention that that year could be the year from hell, or not be enjoyable.... It is possible for any two believers to live together, just like it's possible that Santa Clause will bring me a new BMW for Christmas and the Easter Bunny will bring me a Fabragie (sp) Egg.
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WordWolf
Zshot:
"Let's look at the wow program a little more....
1. after this so called training at the ROA, we were sent to find and meet our "new wow family". I want to know how in the F*** was the decision made as to who was with whom?!?!?!?!
2. I also want to know on how they decided who was going where? I understand that twi had it own interest in where they wanted to send bodies. However, these bodies were people! It seems they didn't care about the people when it came down to assigning locations."
===================
See, Zshot,
this is one reason I like to review old threads from time to time.
I KNEW I'd seen the answer to this one SOMEWHERE.
LINDYHOPPER posted it.
===
He was discussing a corps couple that needed relocation...
"Funny story. We are in the corp relo tent or something and we are discussing with the Rev Ander* on where
they can go. It came down to either Dallas, Tx as BC as they were before in FL or twig coor. in the town
I was now in. The rev was our elder corps while we were in residence. So we were down. Well he goes to
talk things over or go abroad or something and it was taking him a while to get back with us.
Meanwhile, we are standing waiting and talking about their options when one Rev. J Rumproast came over
and asked us if he could help. They told him their deal and how they couldn't decide what would be
best.
So, he pulls out a coin and says "This is how we do it in the back...'Heads, it's Dallas, tails it's
B-more.' He smiles as though he is kind of joking but totally serious as though he had been
inspired by God to do this. It was heads! Praise the Lord! Right about the time everyone is shaking hands
and saying our goodbyes to Rev Rump the Rev. Ander-son-of-a comes walking back in. He is p!$$ed...."
============
So,
seems at least ONE method of deciding who goes where was evident.
===================
We have seen a number of accounts of people who WENT wow or interim corps
and at least one person in their "wow family" was a tipped turbolaser who ruined
the entire "wow family" because they were unable or unwilling to function in the
program as told, even after someone took them aside and explained things.
Everything I saw about the program said that anyone who walked up would be
accepted unless they set fire to the Big Top or something.
If the wows went out on Saturday morning,
you had until WEDNESDAY MORNING to decide to go.
I think it's ridiculous to believe that there was a degree of quality control
when they were ready to accept ANYONE who walked in, and sent them
out after 3 days of possible observation and teachings.
So, I have a new question of my own:
Does ANYONE know of ANY person , EVER,
who was REFUSED entry into the wow program for reasons OTHER than not having
their money ready?
Did the management of the program EVER exercise Quality Control and say
"you lack sufficient experience" or "you lack emotional stability" or
"you do not have a mind to work" or "you lack trustworthiness" or any other legit reason
to not send someone into a small cell that relied on the performance of each cell member?
I'd LOVE to hear ANY details of ANY time that happened.
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oldiesman
Keeping that "unity of purpose" formost in your mind was supposed to be more important than individual personalities, and it was to most folks.
What happened if Henry Baloko didn't get along with Maggie Muggins, and they moved Henry to another family, and Suzi Q didn't get along with Henry, and so forth?
Heck, the leadership'd be moving folks back and forth all year long and it'd be one big waste of time.
I think most did a pretty good job under the circumstances.
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lilbit
Oldies I agree in part with you. There where some folks who gave there whole self to the program and left their individuality at the door. When everyone had there egos in check and really strived "in love" to make things happen...it was powerful. Here is where it was not sucessfull. Leadership who stroked their ego with their position of athority and those who had a stong sence of self and would not surcome to BS.
I personally had a great time as a WOW. I was lucky in the leadership catagory and our family was left alone. The area cordinator was to busy else where puting out fires and our family cordiator was not the dominate type. Praise God. We all wanted the same thing and for some reason it all worked out. The majority of my service with TWI was not micro managed and that is why I stayed so long...other than being brainwashed!
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oldiesman
lilbit, thanks for your input.
BTW, it wasn't brainwashing..
it was strong "biblical research & teaching"
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dmiller
Brainwashing will cause folks to make statements like the above. :D
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oldiesman
Ok, it was brainwashing then.
It washed away many of my fears doubts and unbelief.
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lilbit
In retrospect Oldies I don't belieive it was the research or teaching that brought success. I believe it was the genuine intrest and love that each of us WOWs had for folks. Love that could never be emplimented no matter how many times you teach about. Like VP said, 'It's an inside job" and has nothing to do with the organization. Spirtuality is spirituality...Organization is organization. I think God honors the heart and intent of individuals. Not how much Bible they know or classes runned. I have seen the same success in the church I sometimes attend. It is a Methodist fellowship and is so powerful in their Love for God and eachother, it makes TWI as a whole look awfully bad, present and past.
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Oakspear
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Not mere personality conflicts.
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oldiesman
Thanks for sharing.
To my knowledge physical assaults, drugs, and being a bum wasn't tolerated out WOW.
Sex (other than adultery) was tolerated if consensual and discreet.
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Belle
Then your knowledge is seriously lacking which is pretty pathetic given how long you've been coming to the cafe.
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oldiesman
So then physical assaults, drugs, and being a bum were tolerated on the WOW field?
That's news to me...
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
oldies is your head burried in the sand?no offense meant but you read these post daily
what don't you understand about being mentaly and physicaly abused
do you think all of these people who have opened up thier hearts about the abuse here are lying!? :huh:
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Belle
OM, I actually started to look up old threads for you, but you know what? You don't care. You won't look at them and it would just start another "victim attack" and justification of TWI on your part. I don't want to go there and I'm not gonna waste my time.
You're gonna believe what you want to believe and "a fool convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." Go ahead. TWI didn't hide, harbor and protect child molesters. They didn't allow psychopaths and criminal people in the WOW program. TWI never hurt a single person. They aren't and never were evil and you wish they hadn't kicked you out. You wish they had fellowship close to your home so you could go back into the fold. It's okay. You're entitled to believe whatever you want to believe - whether it's correct or not. :blink:
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oldiesman
I didn't say that evils never happened out WOW, of course evils happened.
What I said was, they weren't tolerated.
What does that mean?
Tolerating evil would mean the leadership would have to condone the same evils happening, again and again and again and again, with no reproof or correction.
Someone beat the crap out of people over and over and over and over and that person got a WOW pin?
Someone doing drugs over and over and over got a WOW pin?
Someone that refused to work got a WOW pin?
Like I said, it's news to me.
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Belle
Yes, and like I said, haven't you been reading posts on here for years?
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danteh1
The year I went out WOW (1979-80) we had 2 groups of 4 people. The WC leader was in the other family of 4 than the one i was in. One of the 2 women in my family was put in charge of the family and she put the other female as 2nd under her.
It started out as a good family untill the lady family leader started bringing men to whom she was supposed to be "undersheparding" over for overnight stays to get them into the class.
When the other guy in our family and I started questioning her way of getting members for the class, both her and the other gal said basically "What are you guys going to do about it?? It's none of your concern.".
I thought "boy what a rip!" here me and the other guy was working our a$$es off trying to get people to sign up and the 2 gals were getting laid when VP told us at the WOW training for the gals to "keep your legs crossed and the men to keep it in your pants."
At one point on the field i was almost ready to call it quits and move out, but at the last minute the the waycorp leader for the 2 families convinced me that he didn't want me to leave and he would talk to the family leader. I should have left cause everything turned kind of cold after that.
but oh well, i'm out now and know better than to get into another situation like that again.
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Oakspear
Oldies:
If it didn't happen to you or around you, then you are fortunate.
When it did happen, sometimes it was tolerated, sometimes it was not.
But for a program where assignments were touted as being "by revelation", there sure were a lot of problems.
And by the way, even consensual sex was contrary to the rules of the program. You're not saying that WOW's should have been enticing people to PFAL via sex, are you?
I'm not saying that people didn't grow and mature, or that (within the context of TWI's version of what was godly) godly things didn't happen, or that God's Word didn't move on the WOW field, but that no training or oversight caused this to happen.
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rascal
Well ...all I can say is that it was too bad that the family of wows who were murdered by their family coordinator in Al in 78 or 9 should have simply *renewed their minds* a little better.....it CERTAINLY couldn`t have been the ministries fault for placing those unsuspecting people in harms way....
There probably was some other purpose served.....else God would have told those leaders who were making the choices of placement by spiritual revelation ...no?
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