Why did I know that there would be questions? I guess a picture is not worth a thousand words after all so I will have to quit being so lazy and write the 1000 words which I will do later on.
But Oak, good questions. The answers are inside and during the apprentice year training. Apprentice being before you entered into residence.
ap·pren·tice ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-prnts)
n.
One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business.
But I do wonder where in the definition of LIFETIME that you found 4 years maybe you could point it out I seem to be missing it ........
life·time ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lftm)
n.
The period of time during which an individual is alive.
The period of time during which property, an object, a process, or a phenomenon exists or functions.
adj.
Continuing for a lifetime; lifelong.
Occurring or measured over a person's active career: a lifetime batting average.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
I don't think it's the "lifetime" that's the problem. It's the "Christian service" that's confused. The Way's definition ("according to usage") seems to be "slavery to TWI."
George I was going to mention that as an extra off topic for discussion. I think that would maybe be a good one. But the question at hand was and is/ this: Was the Way Corps represented as a 4 year and your done program and then changed when you arrived or was it presented as 4 years of training for a Lifetime of Service. That is the issue at hand if you read back to Groucho's post, his objection was not how your kids were raised, how the Corps was treated, how Craig treated people in the 90's or any other of these fine off topic questions, it was that he thought he signed up for a four year stint only to find out it was not as he believes advertised ie: 4 years. My response is to that question alone at this time. I submit that it was not implied or presented as a 4 year program and then your done. And will provide support material to show that to be true. To sidetrack the question with yea but look at how this was does not dismiss the facts in print these are separate questions and deserve consideration as such.
Why would I do this? Integrity in posts. Many people read here to find out about The Way.It has /is my intent to speak honestly about the Way. If we don't then it makes their job easy to tell people,hey look they said this here is proof that they lie. We then loose credibility in our presentations. I think others have said the same SPEAK OUT but speak honestly. I've said before there are plenty of things wrong at The Way to speak about without inventing things that are not true.
But I do wonder where in the definition of LIFETIME that you found 4 years maybe you could point it out I seem to be missing it ........
I wasn't in the Corps, I am depending upon the testimonies of those who were in, and who testify to the difference between what was presented and what was later expected
The answers are inside and during the apprentice year training. Apprentice being before you entered into residence.
ap·pren·tice ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-prnts)
n.
One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business.
Okay, you do an apprentice year in exchange for future instruction. Makes sense.
But I do wonder where in the definition of LIFETIME that you found 4 years maybe you could point it out I seem to be missing it ........
life·time ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lftm)
n.
The period of time during which an individual is alive.
The period of time during which property, an object, a process, or a phenomenon exists or functions.
adj.
Continuing for a lifetime; lifelong.
Occurring or measured over a person's active career: a lifetime batting average.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
I think the difference of opinion here involves, not the definition of "lifetime", but the definition of "service".
Most Way Corps grads would have been glad to use their training for a lifetime in Christian service running fellowships, teaching, "undershepherding", counselling, etc. Most would have also been glad to accept assignments in "areas of concern, interest and need". The problem is that a desire to define for oneself what that service would constitute, usually got you dropped from the Way Corps.
It was a 2 year program till the 4th corps. Well, the 5th corps. When the numbers were seen to be high for the incoming 5th corps it was realized that there wasn't going to be room for everyone doing it 2years, with the 80 or so 4th corps and 5th corps all living there. So the option was given mid-year to the 4th corps to have an "interim" year, a year where those who chose to opt in would travel out, do a year somewhere and come back the 3rd year to finish up. It wasn't mandatory for anyone to make that choice, but it was painted as a way to alternate the numbers and possibly add some value to the program for everyone.
Sure, added value may be a stretch, but of the 4th corps 8 people, 4 couples if I rekolek corekly, decided to stay on and finish in 2 years and the others took a "field assignment".
Emporia evenutally solved the problem of space. Or added to it, I guess depending on how you look at it.
I'm a little puzz-akled about the disagreement in understanding on what "4 years" and the Way Corps meant. I would tend towards Whitedove's description of it amongst most of the people I knew in the 70's although there was certainly differences in long term goals amonst the particpants.
...But anyway...The 4 year committment to corps training was the ONLY committment that was presented to the prospective corps person. Taking assignments AFTER the 4 year committment was presented as OPTIONAL...this was also in WRITING.
Sorry Groucho, but I disagree. I never had the impression that I'd do 4 years of training and then be done. It was clear to me that I was signing up for a lifetime of service. My experience was as WhiteDove has described.
Could it be that an individual told you this, misrepresenting what the Corps was about?
Well, I waited a long time til I went in - - so it was F-11 in 1984 - - and by then, the Way Corp brochure had been updated to read "Preparation for a Lifetime of Christian Service". Whenever we heard Corps promotions, we heard people discussing that it was for people who were wanting training for the vocation of doing ministry work the rest of their lives.
So for us, it was no surprise. We signed up cuz at that point in our lives, that's what we were all about.
Actually now - - even though I'm not with that organization - - it's STILL what my life is all about.
I think the difference of opinion here involves, not the definition of "lifetime", but the definition of "service".
Most Way Corps grads would have been glad to use their training for a lifetime in Christian service running fellowships, teaching, "undershepherding", counselling, etc. Most would have also been glad to accept assignments in "areas of concern, interest and need". The problem is that a desire to define for oneself what that service would constitute, usually got you dropped from the Way Corps.
Oak I agree with you on the service thing for the most part but that was not the statement I responded to this was.
Groucho
I agreed to a 4 year training program...the 4 year committment was THEIR condition (IN WRITING)...shortly after arriving at Emporia, Martindale announces that the way corps is a LIFETIME committment and not just a 4 year committment ...I objected vehemently...QUOTE:
This was never the intent of the Corps program.
Socks added some info about the early Corps and in addition I believe that there was a one year spouse Corps program at some point but the common understanding through all the programs was a lifetime of service with The Way not 4 years.
From The Way Living in Love 1971 page 19
"Unlike the ambassadors, who have a one year commitment to stand and hold forth the Word wherever they are,who are prepared on a day or even on a one-hour notice to move from one city to another as they are needed,the Way Corps members have made a two year commitment to work with the Way ministry. For these two years they live here on the farm,building in themselves discipline and knowledge of the Word of God. They are learning to be leaders and after their two years here will be able to lead in the work of this ministry in all parts of the country."
I think it was Belle that pointed out that it was said the Corps were trained to lead a Twig Fellowship. I agree! I think that was always the minimum level of service expected (although at times I do know of Corps who did not run Twigs for good reasons) So if they were trained to run Twigs then it would be logical to expect that they would be serving in a group that had such so they could use their training. Now let me see do the Catholics offer Twigs aaah no.... How about the Lutherans aaah No...... O!!!! maybe the Krishna's No!!! not there either.... I think you get the point so much for the Oh I was going to serve somewhere else after my 4 years argument. You were being trained to serve after your 4 years in the Way everyone knew it.
QUOTE: Groucho
Perhaps a person wanted the 4 year corps training so that they could DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES how they wanted to serve in Christian ministry. This was the "official" program that twi offered...A 4 year commitment, NOTHING more! QUOTE]
Excerpt From the By The Way article #119
" After graduation they go where they want to go and work at the job or profession of their choosing. But their major or primary goal will be to help people to get blessed so others also may have a "more than Abundant Life" The graduates serve in areas of concern, interest and need.
( I believe that this was later updated to The Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern, interest and need. where they serve depends upon their desire, ability, and the needs of the ministry.)
Now I can dig up quotes about the intent of this program all day long but I think with these and the testimony of posters it is quite clear what is the truth, By the way I have seen no evidence as to the other point of view. I think that facts stand.
The truth is in The Corps you were in training to be a leader in the Way not running a Twig for Santa Claus. Most people got that going in! I find it hard to believe you could survive an apprentice year and not have at least figured that out and if you did I wonder if you should have been there in the first place. So now that this has been put to rest, we can move on to the other topics like Was the Service really Christian? And were people strong armed into assignments? Or how did Craig Martindale treat the Corps in the 90s? And so forth.........
I'll close with this good advise a Quote from Catcup from another thread:
"Never post anything here you wouldn't want repeated back to you by opposing counsel in a court of law.
In other words, give first hand testimony and above all, tell the truth.
I agree with WhiteDove & Linda Z. that the corps was a lifetime of leadership in twi, which meant a lifetime of "moving the Word," twi's way.
Looking at it from another perspective, from the sponsor's perspective: why would someone sponsor an individual if they knew it was only for 4 years, then only to see the corps grad quit moving the Word?
I wish I still had the waycorps brochure that defined the 4 year committment followed by OPTIONAL assignments, but unfortunately, they were thrown into the bon fire on Uncle Harry day... ;)
Am I the only one here who remembers the "OPTIONAL ASSIGNMENTS" part of the corps program? You gotta be kiddin' me.
Yes, the implication was that you take assignments from twi after your corps training was complete...and most did. But those assignments were OPTIONAL according to what I signed on for. If you declined taking assignments your committment to twi was called into question...but I am CERTAIN that the assignments after training were presented ON PAPER as optional.
...and the slap happy "book" that Elaina Whiteside threw together, where we first heard of the snow on the gas pumps, was NOT the official criteria for the corps training committment.
"A lifetime of service"...If I were to say that going to law school for 4 years, to become an attorney, prepared a person for a "lifetime of service" in the law profession...would that mean that you were obligated to take assignments from that law school telling you where and how to practice law?
When I made the 4 year committment for the corps training, I NEVER felt obligated to take assignments from twi after the training was complete...to me a "lifetime of Christian service" meant that I was now equiped with the education and training to serve however I chose and with whom I chose...I never committed myself to taking assignments for the rest of my life or I NEVER would have went into the corps.
Doesn't anyone here have an old corps training brochure that they can post?...I am certain that the OPTIONAL assignments was in there...
...and the slap happy "book" that Elaina Whiteside threw together, where we first heard of the snow on the gas pumps, was NOT the official criteria for the corps training committment.
Geese Groucho......
No but it was printed by the Way in 1971 and shows the intent of the program It's a history of the Way book for God's sake. As picky as the Way was about being and speaking correct do you really think they would print a book with a misrepresentation of one of their lead programs. Not likely Groucho. So I suppose a slap happy book in hand is better than a bird in the bush so to speak........
"A lifetime of service"...If I were to say that going to law school for 4 years, to become an attorney, prepared a person for a "lifetime of service" in the law profession...would that mean that you were obligated to take assignments from that law school telling you where and how to practice law?
Only if they told you that upfront and you agreed. If so the answer is YES...... Groucho I'll give you ,that it was maybe an unreasonable request especially given the age of some of the people going in but it was still none the less the deal. That aside we all do what we want everyone here not in the Way and former Corps myself included has broken that agreement with the Way life goes on. Some try to live the intent in their lives today some choose to not. Each I believe will accept responsibility to someone someday for their actions. I'm good with that........
My dear friend EX10 and MR. Ex were in 10th Corps with you also perhaps she could let us know if she thought that she was being trained to serve in some other ministry after 4 years.
Well, I waited a long time til I went in - - so it was F-11 in 1984 - - and by then, the Way Corp brochure had been updated to read "Preparation for a Lifetime of Christian Service". Whenever we heard Corps promotions, we heard people discussing that it was for people who were wanting training for the vocation of doing ministry work the rest of their lives.
So for us, it was no surprise. We signed up cuz at that point in our lives, that's what we were all about.
Actually now - - even though I'm not with that organization - - it's STILL what my life is all about.
J.
What a nice post but I am not surprised, I would have already guessed that from reading your posts here Miss J .
Whitedove...I agree that twi's "intent" was to have corps grads spend the rest of their lives working for twi...taking assignments year after year after year...there's no debate about THAT...
...What I am saying is that the official waycorps committment, on paper, presented to me, said that taking assignments after the 4 year training was complete...was OPTIONAL. I realize that I am speaking in terms of a technicality...but that's my point. They soft soaped people to lure them in...I recall numerous people who told me (BEFORE they went into the corps), that they hadn't decided as to whether they would take assignments or not when the 4 years was up...but after they graduated from the corps training, they felt OBLIGATED to take assignments...something had changed....bait and switch...it was quick and it was subtle...
...and I might add...That's where the concept of "corps status" came from! This term was invented in order to keep people taking assignments! If you were simply a "graduate" of the waycorps training, they couldn't take anything away from you...it was over, you completed it! ...Buuuuuuuuuut, once they came up with "corps status", it was no longer a 4 year educational program...it was now a "special club" that you had to maintain membership in! We all remember how certain folks (including ourselves) were labeled. "He's corps"..."He used to be corps"...If you refused an assignment, you fell into the latter description. They would drop you from their "special club".
Twi never intended to train people to go out into the world to be Christian ministers...Their intent was to control people and further their own narcisstic agenda.
I don't know what else to tell you Groucho. I know of no document brochure or other piece of paper that supports your idea. I used the word intent because some of the language or wording had slight change over the years but the purpose was always the same to my knowledge. That said it was a fee country and no one could make you take an assignment really ,you always could walk away that was the only optional choice you had. However unless it was for a pretty good reason you would be dropped from active status. I think in the early Corps they needed all the leaders they could get so I'm sure the pressure to go at will was greater later on as the Corps grew it was easier to stay in one place generaly the assignments were 3-5 years. During Craigs time I was not around much but I would guess that being short of people again the pressure was on.
Quote]
Twi never intended to train people to go out into the world to be Christian ministers...Their intent was to control people and further their own narcisstic agenda.
Exactly my point it was not a training center for other religions it was to train leaders for The Way who would then serve as such for a lifelong period .
I have thought about your post for a few days now and I am at a loss as to why you seem to be angry when some historically true information is posted.
Acknowledging something as true has nothing to do with agreeing or supporting the fact. It is just saying this is a true statement which is independent of anyone's actions. For instance O J Simpson is a sports icon the record books bear this out. He also, I believe is a killer. But that does not negate the fact that he still holds a place in sports history. It is just the truth. To admit that is not supporting him only the record of his accomplishments.
Perhaps it is your young age or the fact that you are not far removed from what I think was one of the most abusive times in the Way I don't know. But you seem to have trouble separating these issues when it comes to the Way which I attribute this comment to.
Quote]
I don't know when you were in, WhiteDove, but it must have been during some glory days or at the same time and location as Oldiesman. Quote]
I was not around during Craig's reign I had already left as it was apparent that a Crazy person was at the helm. But from a distance it was obvious that everyone the Corps included were as you said "turning your lives over - lock stock & barrel - to TWI and their whims". That said this has nothing to do with the fact that was in dispute that I posted on. Groucho's recollection was/is not consistent with the facts regarding the Way Corps commitment. The documents and posters testimony is evidence of that fact.
It has nothing to do with supporting what went on ,supporting the Corps Program, or what leaders did in the 90's. Like O J it is just keeping the factual account straight.
I already mentioned why this is important in a prior post but if you think that these posts don't become fodder for lunch time ranting and lessons in why people should stay away from this site you are mistaken. This site is a major pain in the a@* for the Way. Posting untrue things just makes it easy to make us all out as liars who are just angry. Once you have established that a person has been untruthful then it is easy to dismiss all of their words after all they lied here so they must be lying here too.
Quote]
WhiteDove, you can not compare TWI to a secular organization because secular businesses like Wal-Mart don't hold God's blessings over your head or threaten you with Satan's abuses. as well as many other things, but bottom line is - TWI is not a secular organization and does not play by those rules - well, they don't play by any rules, but that's a whole nother storyQuote]
Belle my comparison was to an apprentice program which by definition is.
ap·pren·tice
n.
One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business.
One who is learning a trade or occupation, especially as a member of a labor union.
A beginner; a learner.
Apprentices are not limited to secular occupations but even if that were true The Way has always had a business side to it of which the Way Corps were involved in. They collected money (lots of it) they ran a Bookstore, A Credit Union ,Purchased from major Corporations like IBM and Sony printed and published books, rented hotels for conferences, and so on.....
The apprentice analogy is a fair comparison it is part of the program, you were being trained to be a leader in the Way ministry which included conducting business for them. The Corps teachings were available to get in University of Life and really in the College division they had access to them also but without the commitment to the rest of the Corps program. That is why there were different programs available The Corps program was to train leaders who would serve in The Way.
Quote
Actually, the HFC's we had here went into the WC program to be trained as TWIG LEADERS. That's it. Trained to be able to run a twig where-ever they chose to be - NOT where TWI told them to be.
"Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern ,interest, and need. Where they serve depends on their desire, ability and the needs of the ministry." -The Way Corps Promotion Brochure
Anyway I have not seen Oldiesman around anywhere so I suppose we are not at the same time and location after all.......
I agree Oak and in some cases that was an option to do just that. But I still say it was a leadership training program. The same holds true for the business world like Walmart. You would not go into store management training and then say hey I did not know I was going to have to run a store and move around at the Company's whim. That is what it is if you dont want to run a store by Walmarts rules don't sign up for their training likewise if you don't want to be a leader in the Way according to their rules don't sign up. Pretty simple.......
I agree whitedove, now that I am middle age and have some hard knock lessons of life behind me.
It is simple, but the illusion of the cult was just that an illusion, a type of deception, that played on the niave the gullable , the lost, the young and the just plain stupid.
although some maybe more than I can admit wanted to be a power player and play with the mog and such, I think many more just wanted to be a good person and do right for God.
Twi asked a person to give up alot for "God".
who or what was the god will always be the paradox.
but I witnessed folks give up stable lifes and families to make that commintment thinking that life was going to be different and then once they got into it...........how do ya just quit?
yes today it would be much easier with the lessons learned in a life of being used and often abused... but then the eyes where golden seeing only what they wanted to believe.
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WhiteDove
Why did I know that there would be questions? I guess a picture is not worth a thousand words after all so I will have to quit being so lazy and write the 1000 words which I will do later on.
But Oak, good questions. The answers are inside and during the apprentice year training. Apprentice being before you entered into residence.
ap·pren·tice ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-prnts)
n.
One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business.
But I do wonder where in the definition of LIFETIME that you found 4 years maybe you could point it out I seem to be missing it ........
life·time ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lftm)
n.
The period of time during which an individual is alive.
The period of time during which property, an object, a process, or a phenomenon exists or functions.
adj.
Continuing for a lifetime; lifelong.
Occurring or measured over a person's active career: a lifetime batting average.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I don't think it's the "lifetime" that's the problem. It's the "Christian service" that's confused. The Way's definition ("according to usage") seems to be "slavery to TWI."
George
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WhiteDove
George I was going to mention that as an extra off topic for discussion. I think that would maybe be a good one. But the question at hand was and is/ this: Was the Way Corps represented as a 4 year and your done program and then changed when you arrived or was it presented as 4 years of training for a Lifetime of Service. That is the issue at hand if you read back to Groucho's post, his objection was not how your kids were raised, how the Corps was treated, how Craig treated people in the 90's or any other of these fine off topic questions, it was that he thought he signed up for a four year stint only to find out it was not as he believes advertised ie: 4 years. My response is to that question alone at this time. I submit that it was not implied or presented as a 4 year program and then your done. And will provide support material to show that to be true. To sidetrack the question with yea but look at how this was does not dismiss the facts in print these are separate questions and deserve consideration as such.
Why would I do this? Integrity in posts. Many people read here to find out about The Way.It has /is my intent to speak honestly about the Way. If we don't then it makes their job easy to tell people,hey look they said this here is proof that they lie. We then loose credibility in our presentations. I think others have said the same SPEAK OUT but speak honestly. I've said before there are plenty of things wrong at The Way to speak about without inventing things that are not true.
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Oakspear
Most Way Corps grads would have been glad to use their training for a lifetime in Christian service running fellowships, teaching, "undershepherding", counselling, etc. Most would have also been glad to accept assignments in "areas of concern, interest and need". The problem is that a desire to define for oneself what that service would constitute, usually got you dropped from the Way Corps.
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socks
Strange Little Known Facts About the Way Corps:
It was a 2 year program till the 4th corps. Well, the 5th corps. When the numbers were seen to be high for the incoming 5th corps it was realized that there wasn't going to be room for everyone doing it 2years, with the 80 or so 4th corps and 5th corps all living there. So the option was given mid-year to the 4th corps to have an "interim" year, a year where those who chose to opt in would travel out, do a year somewhere and come back the 3rd year to finish up. It wasn't mandatory for anyone to make that choice, but it was painted as a way to alternate the numbers and possibly add some value to the program for everyone.
Sure, added value may be a stretch, but of the 4th corps 8 people, 4 couples if I rekolek corekly, decided to stay on and finish in 2 years and the others took a "field assignment".
Emporia evenutally solved the problem of space. Or added to it, I guess depending on how you look at it.
I'm a little puzz-akled about the disagreement in understanding on what "4 years" and the Way Corps meant. I would tend towards Whitedove's description of it amongst most of the people I knew in the 70's although there was certainly differences in long term goals amonst the particpants.
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Linda Z
Groucho said:
Sorry Groucho, but I disagree. I never had the impression that I'd do 4 years of training and then be done. It was clear to me that I was signing up for a lifetime of service. My experience was as WhiteDove has described.
Could it be that an individual told you this, misrepresenting what the Corps was about?
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jardinero
Well, I waited a long time til I went in - - so it was F-11 in 1984 - - and by then, the Way Corp brochure had been updated to read "Preparation for a Lifetime of Christian Service". Whenever we heard Corps promotions, we heard people discussing that it was for people who were wanting training for the vocation of doing ministry work the rest of their lives.
So for us, it was no surprise. We signed up cuz at that point in our lives, that's what we were all about.
Actually now - - even though I'm not with that organization - - it's STILL what my life is all about.
J.
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excathedra
is it halloween or april fool's day
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WhiteDove
QUOTE: OAKSPEAR
I think the difference of opinion here involves, not the definition of "lifetime", but the definition of "service".
Most Way Corps grads would have been glad to use their training for a lifetime in Christian service running fellowships, teaching, "undershepherding", counselling, etc. Most would have also been glad to accept assignments in "areas of concern, interest and need". The problem is that a desire to define for oneself what that service would constitute, usually got you dropped from the Way Corps.
Oak I agree with you on the service thing for the most part but that was not the statement I responded to this was.
Groucho
I agreed to a 4 year training program...the 4 year committment was THEIR condition (IN WRITING)...shortly after arriving at Emporia, Martindale announces that the way corps is a LIFETIME committment and not just a 4 year committment ...I objected vehemently...QUOTE:
This was never the intent of the Corps program.
Socks added some info about the early Corps and in addition I believe that there was a one year spouse Corps program at some point but the common understanding through all the programs was a lifetime of service with The Way not 4 years.
From The Way Living in Love 1971 page 19
"Unlike the ambassadors, who have a one year commitment to stand and hold forth the Word wherever they are,who are prepared on a day or even on a one-hour notice to move from one city to another as they are needed,the Way Corps members have made a two year commitment to work with the Way ministry. For these two years they live here on the farm,building in themselves discipline and knowledge of the Word of God. They are learning to be leaders and after their two years here will be able to lead in the work of this ministry in all parts of the country."
I think it was Belle that pointed out that it was said the Corps were trained to lead a Twig Fellowship. I agree! I think that was always the minimum level of service expected (although at times I do know of Corps who did not run Twigs for good reasons) So if they were trained to run Twigs then it would be logical to expect that they would be serving in a group that had such so they could use their training. Now let me see do the Catholics offer Twigs aaah no.... How about the Lutherans aaah No...... O!!!! maybe the Krishna's No!!! not there either.... I think you get the point so much for the Oh I was going to serve somewhere else after my 4 years argument. You were being trained to serve after your 4 years in the Way everyone knew it.
QUOTE: Groucho
Perhaps a person wanted the 4 year corps training so that they could DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES how they wanted to serve in Christian ministry. This was the "official" program that twi offered...A 4 year commitment, NOTHING more! QUOTE]
Excerpt From the By The Way article #119
" After graduation they go where they want to go and work at the job or profession of their choosing. But their major or primary goal will be to help people to get blessed so others also may have a "more than Abundant Life" The graduates serve in areas of concern, interest and need.
( I believe that this was later updated to The Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern, interest and need. where they serve depends upon their desire, ability, and the needs of the ministry.)
Now I can dig up quotes about the intent of this program all day long but I think with these and the testimony of posters it is quite clear what is the truth, By the way I have seen no evidence as to the other point of view. I think that facts stand.
The truth is in The Corps you were in training to be a leader in the Way not running a Twig for Santa Claus. Most people got that going in! I find it hard to believe you could survive an apprentice year and not have at least figured that out and if you did I wonder if you should have been there in the first place. So now that this has been put to rest, we can move on to the other topics like Was the Service really Christian? And were people strong armed into assignments? Or how did Craig Martindale treat the Corps in the 90s? And so forth.........
I'll close with this good advise a Quote from Catcup from another thread:
"Never post anything here you wouldn't want repeated back to you by opposing counsel in a court of law.
In other words, give first hand testimony and above all, tell the truth.
Always."
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oldiesman
I agree with WhiteDove & Linda Z. that the corps was a lifetime of leadership in twi, which meant a lifetime of "moving the Word," twi's way.
Looking at it from another perspective, from the sponsor's perspective: why would someone sponsor an individual if they knew it was only for 4 years, then only to see the corps grad quit moving the Word?
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GrouchoMarxJr
I wish I still had the waycorps brochure that defined the 4 year committment followed by OPTIONAL assignments, but unfortunately, they were thrown into the bon fire on Uncle Harry day... ;)
Am I the only one here who remembers the "OPTIONAL ASSIGNMENTS" part of the corps program? You gotta be kiddin' me.
Yes, the implication was that you take assignments from twi after your corps training was complete...and most did. But those assignments were OPTIONAL according to what I signed on for. If you declined taking assignments your committment to twi was called into question...but I am CERTAIN that the assignments after training were presented ON PAPER as optional.
...and the slap happy "book" that Elaina Whiteside threw together, where we first heard of the snow on the gas pumps, was NOT the official criteria for the corps training committment.
"A lifetime of service"...If I were to say that going to law school for 4 years, to become an attorney, prepared a person for a "lifetime of service" in the law profession...would that mean that you were obligated to take assignments from that law school telling you where and how to practice law?
When I made the 4 year committment for the corps training, I NEVER felt obligated to take assignments from twi after the training was complete...to me a "lifetime of Christian service" meant that I was now equiped with the education and training to serve however I chose and with whom I chose...I never committed myself to taking assignments for the rest of my life or I NEVER would have went into the corps.
Doesn't anyone here have an old corps training brochure that they can post?...I am certain that the OPTIONAL assignments was in there...
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WhiteDove
...and the slap happy "book" that Elaina Whiteside threw together, where we first heard of the snow on the gas pumps, was NOT the official criteria for the corps training committment.
Geese Groucho......
No but it was printed by the Way in 1971 and shows the intent of the program It's a history of the Way book for God's sake. As picky as the Way was about being and speaking correct do you really think they would print a book with a misrepresentation of one of their lead programs. Not likely Groucho. So I suppose a slap happy book in hand is better than a bird in the bush so to speak........
"A lifetime of service"...If I were to say that going to law school for 4 years, to become an attorney, prepared a person for a "lifetime of service" in the law profession...would that mean that you were obligated to take assignments from that law school telling you where and how to practice law?
Only if they told you that upfront and you agreed. If so the answer is YES...... Groucho I'll give you ,that it was maybe an unreasonable request especially given the age of some of the people going in but it was still none the less the deal. That aside we all do what we want everyone here not in the Way and former Corps myself included has broken that agreement with the Way life goes on. Some try to live the intent in their lives today some choose to not. Each I believe will accept responsibility to someone someday for their actions. I'm good with that........
My dear friend EX10 and MR. Ex were in 10th Corps with you also perhaps she could let us know if she thought that she was being trained to serve in some other ministry after 4 years.
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WhiteDove
What a nice post but I am not surprised, I would have already guessed that from reading your posts here Miss J .
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jardinero
Thank you, Doveman.
J.
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excathedra
well i waited a long time too
they wanted me to go in now but i waited 20 seconds
i was corps material
still am, don't you think
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GrouchoMarxJr
Whitedove...I agree that twi's "intent" was to have corps grads spend the rest of their lives working for twi...taking assignments year after year after year...there's no debate about THAT...
...What I am saying is that the official waycorps committment, on paper, presented to me, said that taking assignments after the 4 year training was complete...was OPTIONAL. I realize that I am speaking in terms of a technicality...but that's my point. They soft soaped people to lure them in...I recall numerous people who told me (BEFORE they went into the corps), that they hadn't decided as to whether they would take assignments or not when the 4 years was up...but after they graduated from the corps training, they felt OBLIGATED to take assignments...something had changed....bait and switch...it was quick and it was subtle...
...and I might add...That's where the concept of "corps status" came from! This term was invented in order to keep people taking assignments! If you were simply a "graduate" of the waycorps training, they couldn't take anything away from you...it was over, you completed it! ...Buuuuuuuuuut, once they came up with "corps status", it was no longer a 4 year educational program...it was now a "special club" that you had to maintain membership in! We all remember how certain folks (including ourselves) were labeled. "He's corps"..."He used to be corps"...If you refused an assignment, you fell into the latter description. They would drop you from their "special club".
Twi never intended to train people to go out into the world to be Christian ministers...Their intent was to control people and further their own narcisstic agenda.
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WhiteDove
I don't know what else to tell you Groucho. I know of no document brochure or other piece of paper that supports your idea. I used the word intent because some of the language or wording had slight change over the years but the purpose was always the same to my knowledge. That said it was a fee country and no one could make you take an assignment really ,you always could walk away that was the only optional choice you had. However unless it was for a pretty good reason you would be dropped from active status. I think in the early Corps they needed all the leaders they could get so I'm sure the pressure to go at will was greater later on as the Corps grew it was easier to stay in one place generaly the assignments were 3-5 years. During Craigs time I was not around much but I would guess that being short of people again the pressure was on.
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Twi never intended to train people to go out into the world to be Christian ministers...Their intent was to control people and further their own narcisstic agenda.
Exactly my point it was not a training center for other religions it was to train leaders for The Way who would then serve as such for a lifelong period .
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WhiteDove
Belle Belle Belle
I have thought about your post for a few days now and I am at a loss as to why you seem to be angry when some historically true information is posted.
Acknowledging something as true has nothing to do with agreeing or supporting the fact. It is just saying this is a true statement which is independent of anyone's actions. For instance O J Simpson is a sports icon the record books bear this out. He also, I believe is a killer. But that does not negate the fact that he still holds a place in sports history. It is just the truth. To admit that is not supporting him only the record of his accomplishments.
Perhaps it is your young age or the fact that you are not far removed from what I think was one of the most abusive times in the Way I don't know. But you seem to have trouble separating these issues when it comes to the Way which I attribute this comment to.
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I don't know when you were in, WhiteDove, but it must have been during some glory days or at the same time and location as Oldiesman. Quote]
I was not around during Craig's reign I had already left as it was apparent that a Crazy person was at the helm. But from a distance it was obvious that everyone the Corps included were as you said "turning your lives over - lock stock & barrel - to TWI and their whims". That said this has nothing to do with the fact that was in dispute that I posted on. Groucho's recollection was/is not consistent with the facts regarding the Way Corps commitment. The documents and posters testimony is evidence of that fact.
It has nothing to do with supporting what went on ,supporting the Corps Program, or what leaders did in the 90's. Like O J it is just keeping the factual account straight.
I already mentioned why this is important in a prior post but if you think that these posts don't become fodder for lunch time ranting and lessons in why people should stay away from this site you are mistaken. This site is a major pain in the a@* for the Way. Posting untrue things just makes it easy to make us all out as liars who are just angry. Once you have established that a person has been untruthful then it is easy to dismiss all of their words after all they lied here so they must be lying here too.
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WhiteDove, you can not compare TWI to a secular organization because secular businesses like Wal-Mart don't hold God's blessings over your head or threaten you with Satan's abuses. as well as many other things, but bottom line is - TWI is not a secular organization and does not play by those rules - well, they don't play by any rules, but that's a whole nother storyQuote]
Belle my comparison was to an apprentice program which by definition is.
ap·pren·tice
n.
One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business.
One who is learning a trade or occupation, especially as a member of a labor union.
A beginner; a learner.
Apprentices are not limited to secular occupations but even if that were true The Way has always had a business side to it of which the Way Corps were involved in. They collected money (lots of it) they ran a Bookstore, A Credit Union ,Purchased from major Corporations like IBM and Sony printed and published books, rented hotels for conferences, and so on.....
The apprentice analogy is a fair comparison it is part of the program, you were being trained to be a leader in the Way ministry which included conducting business for them. The Corps teachings were available to get in University of Life and really in the College division they had access to them also but without the commitment to the rest of the Corps program. That is why there were different programs available The Corps program was to train leaders who would serve in The Way.
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Actually, the HFC's we had here went into the WC program to be trained as TWIG LEADERS. That's it. Trained to be able to run a twig where-ever they chose to be - NOT where TWI told them to be.
"Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern ,interest, and need. Where they serve depends on their desire, ability and the needs of the ministry." -The Way Corps Promotion Brochure
Anyway I have not seen Oldiesman around anywhere so I suppose we are not at the same time and location after all.......
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pond
I agree whitedove, now that I am middle age and have some hard knock lessons of life behind me.
It is simple, but the illusion of the cult was just that an illusion, a type of deception, that played on the niave the gullable , the lost, the young and the just plain stupid.
although some maybe more than I can admit wanted to be a power player and play with the mog and such, I think many more just wanted to be a good person and do right for God.
Twi asked a person to give up alot for "God".
who or what was the god will always be the paradox.
but I witnessed folks give up stable lifes and families to make that commintment thinking that life was going to be different and then once they got into it...........how do ya just quit?
yes today it would be much easier with the lessons learned in a life of being used and often abused... but then the eyes where golden seeing only what they wanted to believe.
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