The short of it is that they way didn't "go" bad because vpw set it up "bad" behind the curtain, and just hid it from his audience. From the beginning, vpw knew to tell the public one thing from Scripture, and wait until he was in private to pervert its contents and say the opposite. (Like how God was OK with ORGIES.) lcm was a well-meaning, earnest student in college when he heard of vpw, which led eventually to lcm's life being destroyed. vpw KNEW he was conning us, so he knew who to tell WHAT. lcm thought vpw was really hearing from God, so he was sincere- which is why he got caught. vpw was the one who taught lcm that he was supposed to cheat on his wife- that he had to "loosen up" on the subject of marital fidelity, and that lust was a "need" and that, when he traveled, he needed to find women to "meet his needs" locally, and so on. lcm was carefully groomed to seek out sex outside his marriage, just as vpw carefully identified more vulnerable women and groomed them to be ok with extramarital sex. Nobody put a physical gun to lcm's heads or their heads, but there was YEARS of manipulation by vpw to set it all up. vpw started because HE was fine with cheating on his wife, so he set things up to make it easier to cheat on his wife. He taught lcm to imitate him, so he also taught him to cheat on his wife. So, yes, lcm was an a-hole, but he didn't start out that way. He was also one of vpw's victims, which is why he victimized others.
So, yes, lcm and the women were adults, but it wasn't QUITE as simple as a firm "no" to a blunt request or offer of sexual relations. vpw set up locations, and doctrines, to make it all easy- places to contrive comfort and privacy, doctrines to make it OK with God and to put himself above questioning. etc. I'm sure a few women wanted the attention of the star- vpw WANTED more of those women in twi- but the majority were COERCED into things, some of them by being drugged unconscious.
If all of this helped you see that it was possible to cheat on a marriage, and for you to decide NEVER to do it, then good for you, that's a good conclusion to draw, and to be commended, IMHO. Please save a little compassion for the women who just wanted a class on the Bible and ended up told that they needed to please God by just going along with this leader and letting him do sexual things to her.
And further.....
As a charlatan and sexual predator, wierwille preemptively set "scriptural ground rules" by moving boundary lines.
In teaching his "Christian Family and Sex" class (1975)..... wierwille instructed this class as if he had professional expertise in this area.
Yet, in effect..... wierwille was setting the foundation for future, sexual predation as many of these women would go on staff or corps.
In teaching the "casual nature of sex," vpw was minimizing/eliminating precious boundaries and protocols found in scripture.
By illustrating and describing genitalia in this context and class, wierwille was advocating pre-marital sex.
At no time in this class, or throughout wierwille's teachings.....does wierwille EVER teach on the sin of adultery!
~~~~~~~~~
Therefore.......
Anyone who was involved in wierwille's advanced teaching series (or corps training)........ were vulnerable and susceptible to sexual targeting.
It has been well-documented that some of wierwille's victims *groomed* other women to his lair, the motor coach.
Still others...... were blindsided when they entered his motor coach and saw the implications of this "invite" to be with him.
And others...... were given alcohol or drugged so that wierwille could have his way with them.
The trustees and emeritus knew the dark secrets and crimes!! that were perpetrated in the servitude of "the man of God."
Don, Howard, Craig, Donna, Rosalie and wierwille's valets, bodyguards, bus drivers, pimps, etc...... were all enablers in this seduction.
An inner circle of zealots and opportunists were **in on the game that was being played**......and then, poof........they, too, disappeared.
Hiding in Plain Sight........it is ALL so obvious now. Yet, many of us were so busy jumping thru hoops..... we were not privy to it.
Plus....... we were indoctrinated to NOT even consider (Eve's downfall was that she considered) that *The Teacher* was a sex pervert [pfal].
~~~~~~~~~
Concluding....
Greasespot Café has been shouting from the rooftops for nearly 20 years to expose twi's manipulation and exploitation.
When Wierwille died......Chris Geer stepped forward to protect and RESTORE the "legacy of victor paul wierwille."
When Craig Martindale was ousted for "extra marital affairs"......that should have been THE END of twi.
Yet........Rosalie rallied the corps to stand with her and RESTORE the ministry. Another 16 years of "rebuilding"....???
Today....more splinter groups have risen from the ashes to claim the mantle of "Revival and Restoration." Huh?
Why is it?........these newly-exited clergy and corps censor anyone who declares or asks the hard questions of the past?
Why is it?........none of these splinter cult leaders have addressed the moral depravity and criminal nature in vpw/twi?
Why is it?........that, even to this day, there are those who claim to have been a part of something that was great?
Great????........when EVERTHING in wierwille's cult.....classes, programs, campuses, legacy......has burned to the ground.
At no time in this class, or throughout wierwille's teachings.....does wierwille EVER teach on the sin of adultery!
I can't cite a specific place where he taught this, but he taught that when the Bible talks about adultery, it's talking about spiritual adultery (worshipping other gods) and not about physical intercourse. He went on to imply that if someone still thinks it's about intercourse, it's an indication that person is not spiritually mature enough to understand the deep meanings involved in scripture...whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.
IIRC, he spent a few MINUTES out of 7 sessions of the CFS class that might be considered to cover adultery or fornication. There was I Corinthians 7:1 and 2, and I think that's about all he covered on the subject. He said the literal on "touch" in 7:1 meant "to help himself", so a man wasn't supposed to "help himself" to a woman. He also mentioned "flee fornication." ( I Corinthians 6:18a) , but he didn't get into it. He talked about someone drawing a picture of Tick (the dog), with a flea on his head, with the caption "flea fornication." He didn't actually teach we were supposed to FLEE fornication, but he had time to describe the drawing in detail.
For a class that was 7 sessions long, the number of verses covered was scant, and the actual hand-out of verses was 2 pages long. I've heard there was some teacher's guide with more verses, but I've never seen one. All the students got was 2 pages- one on the virtuous woman and a chapter in Proverbs, and the other on vpw claiming that the "original sin" was an act of, ahem, "self-love" (or "self-abuse" if that's how you think of it.)
The classes that everyone was expected to take were the BAIT, so they never outright stated his most perverse stuff- he saved that for private meetings on-campus to the Corps, to the staff, and so on. Taped sermons touched on them sometimes, but generally not to any great degree.
IIRC, he spent a few MINUTES out of 7 sessions of the CFS class that might be considered to cover adultery or fornication. There was I Corinthians 7:1 and 2, and I think that's about all he covered on the subject. He said the literal on "touch" in 7:1 meant "to help himself", so a man wasn't supposed to "help himself" to a woman. He also mentioned "flee fornication." ( I Corinthians 6:18a) , but he didn't get into it. He talked about someone drawing a picture of Tick (the dog), with a flea on his head, with the caption "flea fornication." He didn't actually teach we were supposed to FLEE fornication, but he had time to describe the drawing in detail.
For a class that was 7 sessions long, the number of verses covered was scant, and the actual hand-out of verses was 2 pages long. I've heard there was some teacher's guide with more verses, but I've never seen one. All the students got was 2 pages- one on the virtuous woman and a chapter in Proverbs, and the other on vpw claiming that the "original sin" was an act of, ahem, "self-love" (or "self-abuse" if that's how you think of it.)
The classes that everyone was expected to take were the BAIT, so they never outright stated his most perverse stuff- he saved that for private meetings on-campus to the Corps, to the staff, and so on. Taped sermons touched on them sometimes, but generally not to any great degree.
He was grooming us to extend our bounderies of acceptance.
...The classes that everyone was expected to take were the BAIT, so they never outright stated his most perverse stuff- he saved that for private meetings on-campus to the Corps, to the staff, and so on. Taped sermons touched on them sometimes, but generally not to any great degree.
7 hours ago, waysider said:
He was grooming us to extend our bounderies of acceptance.
I agree. Wierwille’s modus operandi was in developing an undercurrent that grew stronger as one became more involved with the organization (like joining programs and staff).
Undercurrent: an underlying feeling or influence, especially one that is contrary to the prevailing atmosphere and is not expressed openly; a current of water below the surface and moving in a different direction from any surface current…teachings available to the general public were seemingly benign promoting study of the Bible, offering keys to overcoming adversity and finding fulfilment in life. All that supposedly wholesome sounding Bible stuff on the surface hides the undertow. You'll find it's all about wierwille's skewed interpretation of the Bible commingled with lies... Your hopes and dreams become entangled with the busy work of the ministry. Any false sense of happiness and fulfillment really depends on how much you commit to an organization. Christian, beware these are treacherous waters! The deeper you go the more you find wierwille’s influence leading you further and further away from the simple and honest life of a Christian. Wierwille was like Captain Nemo and my experience in TWI was like twenty thousand (or more) lies under the sea.
I can't cite a specific place where he taught this, but he taught that when the Bible talks about adultery, it's talking about spiritual adultery (worshipping other gods) and not about physical intercourse. He went on to imply that if someone still thinks it's about intercourse, it's an indication that person is not spiritually mature enough to understand the deep meanings involved in scripture...whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.
I have a distinct recollection of some early "grooming" material ie PFAL, that talks about moving boundaries Maybe it was in "renewed mind" class. Cursed are those who remove their neighbours' boundaries. According to VPW, this is not just the field boundaries (the obvious as referred to in Deut 27 and Prov 22 and Prov 23 (among other places) but the boundaries of other people's minds. And yet - that's exactly what VPW was doing with us - moving the boundaries of our minds. For some, who had poor boundaries, that could possibly have been a good thing (note: could. But the actuality was that boundaries were probably pushed further out in an unhealthy way; vulnerable people were very easy prey). For most of us, that would be moving the boundaries of good commonsense rules instilled by our parents or society.
But actually, for all of us, what he was doing with his teaching was precisely removing boundaries: he was replacing those societally decent sexual and other behavioural boundaries by his own perverted boundaries of what was decent behaviour and then instilling a new boundary of "lockbox."
Deut 27: 'The one who moves his neighbor's boundary marker is cursed.' And all the people will say, 'Amen!'
Job 24: Some remove the landmarks; they violently take away flocks, and feed thereof.
Prov 23: Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless:
Completely but good to see that Weinstein has been convicted of rape. He's now saying he's too ill to go to prison and needs to go to a hospital. He plans an appeal.
Harvey Weinstein, the fallen titan of Hollywood whose sexual abuse of aspiring young female actors sparked the #MeToo movement, has finally been brought to justice after a New York jury found him guilty of two of the five charges he faced.
The jury of seven men and five women at the New York supreme court took five days to reach their verdict. They found the defendant guilty of a criminal sex act in the first degree for forcing oral sex on the former Project Runway production assistant Miriam Haley in 2006.
The count carries a minimum prison sentence of five years and a maximum of up to 25 years.
The jury also convicted Weinstein of rape in the third degree. This relates to him raping a woman [the newspaper] is not naming, as her wishes for identification are not clear, in a New York hotel in 2013. This count carries a maximum sentence of four years in prison and no minimum, though it requires Weinstein to register as a sex offender.
Weinstein was acquitted of three further charges, including the two most serious counts of predatory sexual assault which carried a possible life sentence and an alternative count of rape in the first degree.
After the verdict Weinstein was handcuffed and remanded into custody ahead of sentencing on 11 March. His lawyers requested that he be kept in a jail infirmary while awaiting sentencing...
...Weinstein’s new role as a convicted sex criminal is not the end of the story. He will now face sentencing at the hands of Burke, a judge who throughout the trial has shown himself to be immune to the complaints of Weinstein’s lawyers about the way the trial was conducted...
…Before he gets to lodge any appeal, Weinstein could face further legal jeopardy. Los Angeles authorities have charged him with raping and sexually assaulting two women over a two-day period in February 2013...
I know I'm jumping on a really old thread that may even be archived, but I'd love to get copies of the Acts 29 stuff. I was involved in a home fellowship in the early 90's and really loved their music. That cassette is long- long gone though. Does anyone have these available? Thanks for any help you can give me.
I know I'm jumping on a really old thread that may even be archived, but I'd love to get copies of the Acts 29 stuff. I was involved in a home fellowship in the early 90's and really loved their music. That cassette is long- long gone though. Does anyone have these available? Thanks for any help you can give me.
I have all of them, i can share with you..just send me a PM
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
6
7
5
6
Popular Days
Oct 7
6
Oct 18
5
Jan 12
5
Oct 17
5
Top Posters In This Topic
Rocky 6 posts
WordWolf 7 posts
waysider 5 posts
Taylor Apples 6 posts
Popular Days
Oct 7 2005
6 posts
Oct 18 2005
5 posts
Jan 12 2020
5 posts
Oct 17 2005
5 posts
Popular Posts
skyrider
And further..... As a charlatan and sexual predator, wierwille preemptively set "scriptural ground rules" by moving boundary lines. In teaching his "Christian Family and Sex" class (197
Rocky
Btw, I don't watch commercial television either, but do watch YouTube, Hulu, Amazon Prime video and PBS online. I just ran into an Associated Press news story about this recently released (in Fra
T-Bone
I agree. Wierwille’s modus operandi was in developing an undercurrent that grew stronger as one became more involved with the organization (like joining programs and staff). Undercurrent: an unde
skyrider
And further.....
~~~~~~~~~
Therefore.......
~~~~~~~~~
Concluding....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I can't cite a specific place where he taught this, but he taught that when the Bible talks about adultery, it's talking about spiritual adultery (worshipping other gods) and not about physical intercourse. He went on to imply that if someone still thinks it's about intercourse, it's an indication that person is not spiritually mature enough to understand the deep meanings involved in scripture...whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
IIRC, he spent a few MINUTES out of 7 sessions of the CFS class that might be considered to cover adultery or fornication. There was I Corinthians 7:1 and 2, and I think that's about all he covered on the subject. He said the literal on "touch" in 7:1 meant "to help himself", so a man wasn't supposed to "help himself" to a woman. He also mentioned "flee fornication." ( I Corinthians 6:18a) , but he didn't get into it. He talked about someone drawing a picture of Tick (the dog), with a flea on his head, with the caption "flea fornication." He didn't actually teach we were supposed to FLEE fornication, but he had time to describe the drawing in detail.
For a class that was 7 sessions long, the number of verses covered was scant, and the actual hand-out of verses was 2 pages long. I've heard there was some teacher's guide with more verses, but I've never seen one. All the students got was 2 pages- one on the virtuous woman and a chapter in Proverbs, and the other on vpw claiming that the "original sin" was an act of, ahem, "self-love" (or "self-abuse" if that's how you think of it.)
The classes that everyone was expected to take were the BAIT, so they never outright stated his most perverse stuff- he saved that for private meetings on-campus to the Corps, to the staff, and so on. Taped sermons touched on them sometimes, but generally not to any great degree.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
He was grooming us to extend our bounderies of acceptance.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
I agree. Wierwille’s modus operandi was in developing an undercurrent that grew stronger as one became more involved with the organization (like joining programs and staff).
Undercurrent: an underlying feeling or influence, especially one that is contrary to the prevailing atmosphere and is not expressed openly; a current of water below the surface and moving in a different direction from any surface current…teachings available to the general public were seemingly benign promoting study of the Bible, offering keys to overcoming adversity and finding fulfilment in life. All that supposedly wholesome sounding Bible stuff on the surface hides the undertow. You'll find it's all about wierwille's skewed interpretation of the Bible commingled with lies... Your hopes and dreams become entangled with the busy work of the ministry. Any false sense of happiness and fulfillment really depends on how much you commit to an organization. Christian, beware these are treacherous waters! The deeper you go the more you find wierwille’s influence leading you further and further away from the simple and honest life of a Christian. Wierwille was like Captain Nemo and my experience in TWI was like twenty thousand (or more) lies under the sea.
Edited by T-Boneformatting & revision
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
I have a distinct recollection of some early "grooming" material ie PFAL, that talks about moving boundaries Maybe it was in "renewed mind" class. Cursed are those who remove their neighbours' boundaries. According to VPW, this is not just the field boundaries (the obvious as referred to in Deut 27 and Prov 22 and Prov 23 (among other places) but the boundaries of other people's minds. And yet - that's exactly what VPW was doing with us - moving the boundaries of our minds. For some, who had poor boundaries, that could possibly have been a good thing (note: could. But the actuality was that boundaries were probably pushed further out in an unhealthy way; vulnerable people were very easy prey). For most of us, that would be moving the boundaries of good commonsense rules instilled by our parents or society.
But actually, for all of us, what he was doing with his teaching was precisely removing boundaries: he was replacing those societally decent sexual and other behavioural boundaries by his own perverted boundaries of what was decent behaviour and then instilling a new boundary of "lockbox."
Deut 27: 'The one who moves his neighbor's boundary marker is cursed.' And all the people will say, 'Amen!'
Job 24: Some remove the landmarks; they violently take away flocks, and feed thereof.
Prov 23: Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Was reading in Psalms today. I found this, which gave my heart a real lift:
Edited by Twinky:)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Confidence in theLord
A Davidic Miktam.
1Protect me, God, for I take refuge in You.
2Ic said to •Yahweh, “You are my Lord;
I have nothing good besides You.”
3As for the holy people who are in the land, they are the noble ones.
All my delight is in them.
4The sorrows of those who take another god for themselves will multiply;
I will not pour out their •drink offerings of blood,
and I will not speak their names with my lips.
5LORD, You are my portion and my cup of blessing;
You hold my future.
6The boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places;
indeed, I have a beautiful inheritance.
7I will praise the LORD who counsels me —
even at night my conscience instructs me.
8I keep the LORD in mind always.
Because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken.
9Therefore my heart is glad
and my spirit rejoices;
my body also rests securely.
10For You will not abandon me to Sheol;
You will not allow Your Faithful One to see decay.
11You reveal the path of life to me;
in Your presence is abundant joy; in Your right hand are eternal pleasures.
Edited by TwinkyFormating (still won't come right)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Completely
but good to see that Weinstein has been convicted of rape. He's now saying he's too ill to go to prison and needs to go to a hospital. He plans an appeal.
Harvey Weinstein, the fallen titan of Hollywood whose sexual abuse of aspiring young female actors sparked the #MeToo movement, has finally been brought to justice after a New York jury found him guilty of two of the five charges he faced.
The jury of seven men and five women at the New York supreme court took five days to reach their verdict. They found the defendant guilty of a criminal sex act in the first degree for forcing oral sex on the former Project Runway production assistant Miriam Haley in 2006.
The count carries a minimum prison sentence of five years and a maximum of up to 25 years.
The jury also convicted Weinstein of rape in the third degree. This relates to him raping a woman [the newspaper] is not naming, as her wishes for identification are not clear, in a New York hotel in 2013. This count carries a maximum sentence of four years in prison and no minimum, though it requires Weinstein to register as a sex offender.
Weinstein was acquitted of three further charges, including the two most serious counts of predatory sexual assault which carried a possible life sentence and an alternative count of rape in the first degree.
After the verdict Weinstein was handcuffed and remanded into custody ahead of sentencing on 11 March. His lawyers requested that he be kept in a jail infirmary while awaiting sentencing...
...Weinstein’s new role as a convicted sex criminal is not the end of the story. He will now face sentencing at the hands of Burke, a judge who throughout the trial has shown himself to be immune to the complaints of Weinstein’s lawyers about the way the trial was conducted...
…Before he gets to lodge any appeal, Weinstein could face further legal jeopardy. Los Angeles authorities have charged him with raping and sexually assaulting two women over a two-day period in February 2013...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Esteban Unama
I know I'm jumping on a really old thread that may even be archived, but I'd love to get copies of the Acts 29 stuff. I was involved in a home fellowship in the early 90's and really loved their music. That cassette is long- long gone though. Does anyone have these available? Thanks for any help you can give me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CarlWilson
Anyone has "We've got the power" by Sam Pruyn?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CarlWilson
I have all of them, i can share with you..just send me a PM
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.