Old Way Tapes

[Janet21047]

The group Breakthrough - A Thought Away - came out in 1985 after Dr Wierwille's death. I have the cassette tape. It's all I have left of my music tapes. I tired to upload the images but it isn't happening. An OLD webpage that might help is http://www.believerlinks.com/cortright/bbmusic.htm. 

[Taylor Apples]

Thanks but I didn't see any New Horizons tapes on there. I am looking for their old tape specifically. There music was fun and uplifting.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

10 hours ago, Taylor Apples said:

Thanks but I didn't see any New Horizons tapes on there. I am looking for their old tape specifically. There music was fun and uplifting.

Taylor, I remember NH!!  Their music was great!!  I saw them at The Rock one year; their dancing was as good as their music!!  Great group!!

[Taylor Apples]

I saw them at Rock of Ages too. We went every year. I've been searching for their tape for years now. There is a member here that says she has them but she hasn't logged on since 2005. I left a message on her blog about them, maybe one day she will log back in and respond.

[Raf]

I have a truckload of early Way teaching tapes on mp3 if anyone wants access. Name the teaching: I'll find it and send it.

 

[Taylor Apples]

28 minutes ago, Raf said:

I have a truckload of early Way teaching tapes on mp3 if anyone wants access. Name the teaching: I'll find it and send it.

I liked the teachings but I'm looking for a tape of one of their bands called New Horizons, the tape was of the same name. I'll keep your post though in case I come across anyone looking for the old teachings. It's a shame how the Way collapsed once Weirwell died. I met him a few times and he was very nice. I'm not a member anymore but man would I enjoy going to another rock of ages. It's the best memory of my childhood.

On 2/6/2019 at 1:51 AM, Modgellan said:

there was quite a discussion about the names of the members in this thread-

 

 

[Taylor999]

I've been trying to find a copy of the New Horizons way tapes for years. Mine got lost in a move over a decade ago. Anyone who knows where I can get a copy, please email me at taylor@taylorprescott.com Thanks!

[Longhunter]

On 10/18/2005 at 9:48 AM, Belle said:

I have a bunch of tapes of craig's ranting and raving......does that count?

Can I get copies? haha

[Rocky]

55 minutes ago, Longhunter said:

Can I get copies? haha

  

[outandabout]

Ah, the memories.....

[penworks]

Raf, (or anyone here) do you have any tapes of VPW teaching/talking on which he talks about his audible revelation from God, the one that includes the snow as a sign? I would really like to find a recording of him describing it. 

Thanks.

I can be contacted at https://charleneedge.com/contact

[penworks]

On 1/7/2020 at 5:30 PM, penworks said:

Raf, (or anyone here) do you have any tapes of VPW teaching/talking on which he talks about his audible revelation from God, the one that includes the snow as a sign? I would really like to find a recording of him describing it. 

Thanks.

I can be contacted at https://charleneedge.com/contact

Just to be clear, I am looking for a TAPED account of his telling this story. With his voice recorded doing it. I have the book, TWLIL, which has it in print.

I'm pretty sure he told the story in the PFAL foundational class, but I haven't found it available anywhere.

Thanks!

Edited January 9, 2020 by penworks
clarification

[waysider]

1 hour ago, penworks said:

I'm pretty sure he told the story in the PFAL foundational class

That was my thought, as well. He said he asked God to give him a sign. (In the same class he said you can't ask God to give you a sign.)

Then again, maybe it was in the Advanced Class he said you can't ask for signs. SSDC

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by waysider

[WordWolf]

1 hour ago, penworks said:

Just to be clear, I am looking for a TAPED account of his telling this story. With his voice recorded doing it. I have the book, TWLIL, which has it in print.

I'm pretty sure he told the story in the PFAL foundational class, but I haven't found it available anywhere.

Thanks!

IIRC, the Orange Book doesn't have it in print because it wasn't IN the taped PFAL class.  I hadn't heard it- which suggests it wasn't in the live class, since I made a fair attempt to memorize it by sitting through it.     I read that he HAD said it because I bought TW:LiL  and put it on my shelf without reading it.   When I read someone criticized him for saying it was the first time I recalled having heard that (after sitting thru pfal a few times.)   I was skeptical he HAD said it as such.  

 

In pfal, I recall him saying

-he'd dedicated his life to God's Word,  and saying that

-the holy spirit field was what God called him to  

and that, to me, didn't suggest he was saying he'd heard any audible voice from God Almighty.   Lots of us at the local levels sat through pfal, never suspecting he'd claimed he'd heard audibly from God Almighty, and, frankly, the suggestion he'd said it made me uncomfortable as soon as I'd read it.   It would have significantly undermined pfal for me if I'd heard it there- so I suspect I didn't simply overlook it several times.

 

A smart con man doesn't put the hook in an obvious place. pfal was the bait,  and later came the ridiculous claims.  lcm's class failed partly because he mixed his bait- the class- WITH his ridiculous claims.  New people saw right away lcm was a nutcase, which killed retention of new people.    With everyone expected to take pfal and have the Orange Book, it's not smart con-artistry to put his outrageous claims in either.   So, they had Bullinger's work, Stiles' work, and Leonard's work,  plus vpw's bad jokes and rambling stories (the homileticist "putting his own personal stamp" on all the plagiarized material, and probably why he partly convinced himself he actually did something with the material.

 

Saying he'd dedicated his life, if sincere, meant he himself made a decision.  Saying God called him to something, if sincere, meant he believed God wanted him to work on something long-term.   Neither suggests an audible voice from God Almighty.   Looking back after knowing he ALSO claimed that-  NOW it looks like that's what he was referring to.  If you only go by the class, however, you don't get that claim there.     That's all as best as I can recall- and that's usually pretty reliable concerning the class' contents.

[WordWolf]

It's entirely possible that he said everything in an SNT that covered one of the pfal subjects,  and I'd never have heard it.   So, looking for an audiotape that includes it may work.

[penworks]

I can't imagine anyone listening to hours of tapes to find it tucked in a teaching. I have no audiotapes of VPW. Does anyone here have tapes and time to find the snow story?

[waysider]

I think I still have a big box of SNS tapes in my cellar. (not 100% sure) I'm just saving them in case I need a boat anchor some day.

[memeandonlyme]

It's too bad the Way went so bad. I was in it as a young kid and was about 12 when the scandal broke about CM having sex with other women. I remember hearing adults talking about those "poor women". I remember thinking,  even at my young age, what poor women?, they CHOOSE to have sex with a married man and cheat on their husbands. I never felt sorry for any of those women and I was more disgusted at them for all the stupidity it took to do what they did. They can say all day that he made claims that god wanted him to be with them but, these were grown foot women who knew exactly what they were doing. They wanted the attention from the star of the show and they got it. I can't say for sure, but that experience as a child may have been what set in motion my fervent refusal to ever be with a married man . If that was the best I got from my Way experience, that is pretty darn good. 

[Rocky]

2 hours ago, memeandonlyme said:

It's too bad the Way went so bad. I was in it as a young kid and was about 12 when the scandal broke about CM having sex with other women. I remember hearing adults talking about those "poor women". I remember thinking,  even at my young age, what poor women?, they CHOOSE to have sex with a married man and cheat on their husbands. I never felt sorry for any of those women and I was more disgusted at them for all the stupidity it took to do what they did. They can say all day that he made claims that god wanted him to be with them but, these were grown foot women who knew exactly what they were doing. They wanted the attention from the star of the show and they got it. I can't say for sure, but that experience as a child may have been what set in motion my fervent refusal to ever be with a married man . If that was the best I got from my Way experience, that is pretty darn good. 

 

Hi Memeand...

Yes, that's ONE way it happened for some of them. Not necessarily the only way.

Glad you got locked into your mind not to even get started messing around with married men.  

[memeandonlyme]

13 hours ago, Rocky said:

Hi Memeand...

Yes, that's ONE way it happened for some of them. Not necessarily the only way.

Glad you got locked into your mind not to even get started messing around with married men.  

Rocky,

If there were cases of rape then absolutely, I care for those women and think he should never see the light of day again. I didn't hear those stories, but it could have been because adults used to protect children from such things when I was a little girl.

Edited January 11, 2020 by memeandonlyme

[Rocky]

55 minutes ago, memeandonlyme said:

Rocky,

If there were cases of rape then absolutely, I care for those women and think he should never see the light of day again. I didn't hear those stories, but it could have been because adults used to protect children from such things when I was a little girl.

I understand. There are several first hand records on this forum. I suspect there are multiple topics about which adults in twi didn't tell you the whole story... one reason likely was that they didn't get the whole story from "leadership."

[WordWolf]

On 1/11/2020 at 12:05 AM, memeandonlyme said:

It's too bad the Way went so bad. I was in it as a young kid and was about 12 when the scandal broke about CM having sex with other women. I remember hearing adults talking about those "poor women". I remember thinking,  even at my young age, what poor women?, they CHOOSE to have sex with a married man and cheat on their husbands. I never felt sorry for any of those women and I was more disgusted at them for all the stupidity it took to do what they did. They can say all day that he made claims that god wanted him to be with them but, these were grown foot women who knew exactly what they were doing. They wanted the attention from the star of the show and they got it. I can't say for sure, but that experience as a child may have been what set in motion my fervent refusal to ever be with a married man . If that was the best I got from my Way experience, that is pretty darn good. 

Hello.

The short of it is that they way didn't "go" bad because vpw set it up "bad" behind the curtain, and just hid it from his audience.  From the beginning, vpw knew to tell the public one thing from Scripture, and wait until he was in private to pervert its contents and say the opposite.  (Like how God was OK with ORGIES.)   lcm was a well-meaning, earnest student in college when he heard of vpw,  which led eventually to lcm's life being destroyed.  vpw KNEW he was conning us, so he knew who to tell WHAT.  lcm thought vpw was really hearing from God, so he was sincere- which is why he got caught.    vpw was the one who taught lcm that he was supposed to cheat on his wife-  that he had to "loosen up" on the subject of marital fidelity, and that lust was a "need" and that, when he traveled, he needed to find women to "meet his needs" locally, and so on.   lcm was carefully groomed to seek out sex outside his marriage, just as vpw carefully identified more vulnerable women and groomed them to be ok with extramarital sex.    Nobody put a physical gun to lcm's heads or their heads, but there was YEARS of manipulation by vpw to set it all up.  vpw started because HE was fine with cheating on his wife, so he set things up to make it easier to cheat on his wife.  He taught lcm to imitate him, so he also taught him to cheat on his wife.     So, yes, lcm was an a-hole, but he didn't start out that way.  He was also one of vpw's victims, which is why he victimized others. 

So, yes, lcm and the women were adults, but it wasn't QUITE as simple as a firm "no" to a blunt request or offer of sexual relations.  vpw set up locations, and doctrines, to make it all easy-  places to contrive comfort and privacy,  doctrines to make it OK with God and to put himself above questioning.  etc.   I'm sure a few women wanted the attention of the star-  vpw WANTED more of those women in twi-  but the majority were COERCED into things, some of them by being drugged unconscious. 

If all of this helped you see that it was possible to cheat on a marriage, and for you to decide NEVER to do it, then good for you, that's a good conclusion to draw, and to be commended, IMHO.  Please save a little compassion for the women who just wanted a class on the Bible and ended up told that they needed to please God by just going along with this leader and letting him do sexual things to her.

[Rocky]

27 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

Hello.

The short of it is that they way didn't "go" bad because vpw set it up "bad" behind the curtain, and just hid it from his audience.  From the beginning, vpw knew to tell the public one thing from Scripture, and wait until he was in private to pervert its contents and say the opposite.  (Like how God was OK with ORGIES.)   lcm was a well-meaning, earnest student in college when he heard of vpw,  which led eventually to lcm's life being destroyed.  vpw KNEW he was conning us, so he knew who to tell WHAT.  lcm thought vpw was really hearing from God, so he was sincere- which is why he got caught.    vpw was the one who taught lcm that he was supposed to cheat on his wife-  that he had to "loosen up" on the subject of marital fidelity, and that lust was a "need" and that, when he traveled, he needed to find women to "meet his needs" locally, and so on.   lcm was carefully groomed to seek out sex outside his marriage, just as vpw carefully identified more vulnerable women and groomed them to be ok with extramarital sex.    Nobody put a physical gun to lcm's heads or their heads, but there was YEARS of manipulation by vpw to set it all up.  vpw started because HE was fine with cheating on his wife, so he set things up to make it easier to cheat on his wife.  He taught lcm to imitate him, so he also taught him to cheat on his wife.     So, yes, lcm was an a-hole, but he didn't start out that way.  He was also one of vpw's victims, which is why he victimized others. 

So, yes, lcm and the women were adults, but it wasn't QUITE as simple as a firm "no" to a blunt request or offer of sexual relations.  vpw set up locations, and doctrines, to make it all easy-  places to contrive comfort and privacy,  doctrines to make it OK with God and to put himself above questioning.  etc.   I'm sure a few women wanted the attention of the star-  vpw WANTED more of those women in twi-  but the majority were COERCED into things, some of them by being drugged unconscious. 

If all of this helped you see that it was possible to cheat on a marriage, and for you to decide NEVER to do it, then good for you, that's a good conclusion to draw, and to be commended, IMHO.  Please save a little compassion for the women who just wanted a class on the Bible and ended up told that they needed to please God by just going along with this leader and letting him do sexual things to her.

This video is NOT about the political spectrum, in either direction.

The value of this Megyn Kelly moderated discussion is expanding on the dynamics of workplace power that leads to sexual harassment/abuse.

I believe it also illuminates points WordWolf made in the quote I cited in this comment. Though Kelly's interview doesn't suggest Ailes drugged anyone to commit rape or obtain sexual favors. But she and the others do dramatically show how power dynamics can play out... and much of that kind of thing DID happen in twi with vpw and lcm.

A key difference between what Kelly and her colleagues experienced is that what happened in twi was self-justifying rationalizations twisting bible verses and claiming it was "God's will." It probably took a long time for a woman who submitted to figure out that it wasn't necessarily in harmony with what God really intended for her... I don't think God ever told women to be thankful that they got emotionally manipulated and sexually abused as a matter of course.

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Rocky

[memeandonlyme]

Rocky,

Thank you for sharing the video, I hadn't seen it. I don't watch tv but heard Megan Kelly had left tv for a bit. Did she leave because she was battling the sexual harassment to save her career?

[Rocky]

6 hours ago, memeandonlyme said:

Rocky,

Thank you for sharing the video, I hadn't seen it. I don't watch tv but heard Megan Kelly had left tv for a bit. Did she leave because she was battling the sexual harassment to save her career?

I don't know why she left NBC, but certainly the harassment has been a significant factor overall in her decision processes.