As you say, it's all speculation, since we're discussing someplace we haven't been yet...but, these days I am leaning toward the belief that we are spiritual beings having a human experience, infinite souls/spirits in temporary bodies...so death is the end of this physical body, but perhaps just a transition to another dimension of continuing spiritual life.
i was swimming as a school of single minded soldiers
towards some singing object just over every horizon
the first of us to see its glow, dove right in and starting digging
i remember reaching the brightest layer
and thought that i had won the prize
and that i had reached my peak
one of those moments when time stood still...and i bit
...but...one taste, then something reached out of the ground itself and grabbed me by tongue, snapped my neck and completely sucked me in and unzipped me, dead as fish bones, scattered like letters etched in the cemetary of headstones...
(it wasnt til later that i found out how much older she was than me...)
anyway, from there, it got really crazy really fast
i thought i was dead, but what really happened was
me and this new world went through this roller coaster ride of a metamorphosis
which seemed to take an eternity compared to the first death
we went through these stages like some mythical mutant creature
but then things slowed down and we lost track of each other
then came this laughter and love from beyond
and sounds of angels singing through some veil
glowing red warmth at times coming right through the wall
i had finally really arrived this time
but this world kept getting smaller and smaller
things seemed to change less and less
things get tighter and tighter
still no questions answered
until one day
kerplunk
woosh
a flood
tremors
screaming
an earthquake
all my angels were crying
then out comes this knife and chops me off...
i was screaming bloody murder.....
and then i feel asleep
and it got better and worse from there
ya see?
i fell for it again
lol
and kinda funny too
because this birth seems like its taking an eternity compared to that last one, too
I've wondered these past few years...if the Infinite God had a back-up "hard-drive" for each time this universe crashed. And...would we notice this while he "re-booted" us?
Perhaps we've died many times in this life and had not known it.
Maybe even in some parallel system somewhere, - an old "hard-drive" -there was a magnetic shift in the poles which wiped out our memories...leaving our old counterparts drooling and wandering about that world aimlessly.
You want to know what death is? Ask a child who's lost a parent to death.
Ask a man or women who's spouse,partner,lover,companion,friend is now dead.
Ask a parent who has buried one of their babies.
Ask a doctor or nurse that has done everything they can and the patient still dies.
Ask a cop who has come upon a scene to find the victim dead.
Ask an adult child who has cared for his/her parent until death.
2027 Maybe I don't understand your thread, or the point of it. Doctinal, so you must be generating discussion from what a Bible somewhere or a person says, is that it?
When breath life ends.
That's death. Managing without the deceased, that's living with death.
Well.. death is.. change. Big change perhaps. Some of the changes in my life I have described as "death", in one way or another..
Interesting though..
Not that I subscribe to it.. or would go for it.. but I think the Tarot "death" card does not exactly signify death, in their belief, but change.. big change.
No I have only one but Christ has changed to be like God so Christ's seed is in me and many others while sitting on the right hand of God
God is everywhere and Christ is everywhere
Yes we can have differ views of the same things
The coming of Christ for us is just Christ leading us into our new birth to change to be in the form of Christ who is in the form of God
The stage of growth
From seed, to growing seed, to birth, to baby, to child, to teen, to of age, to of middle age, to old age, and to death
some of the fleshly stages but lets break it down
From seed, to birth, to person, and to death
but lets add spiritual seed
To fleshly seed that is planted in his or her fleshly mother with the mother watering him or her. to a person out side his or her fleshly mother, seed of Christ in his or her heart planted in the heart water by the word of God, then fleshly death which leads to spiritual birth
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
that word of god that was heard and decided upon to believe because it was right there in plain sight
it is done-see revelations
not to say that more is not down the road
but we do not have to wait till death to get plenty of heaven now
If the body returns to dust, the breath life back into the air and the spirit to God for safe keeping, then considering that, DOES shed a different light on what Thessalonians says, does it not? At least that's what I *think* I'm reading here.
If the spirit goes back to God for safe keeping, it's not exactly in a coma-like state, is it? And if not, then it would be awfully sad to think that our loved ones die, God has their spirit which is still alive and vital, and that the spirit of our loved ones don't think twice about those of us left behind..... Does that make sense?
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
that word of god that was heard and decided upon to believe because it was right there in plain sight
it is done-see revelations
not to say that more is not down the road
but we do not have to wait till death to get plenty of heaven now
I not sure but here what I feel God is telling me to look at who is the book talking to
The people alive then when Jesus the Christ went up in the air winning over death
I just have not look yet but even if I did look not sure I could know when wrote and to which age of people
But Let me write what I see maybe it will help maybe not
I believe when Jesus the Christ took his last breath in the fleshly that gave him the right to recreated spiritual alive seed in Adam upward
So for that day forward all people are born with the seed of Christ or the image of Christ in them
But for this seed to grow it must be in good dirt and receive water --The good dirt is a good heart and water is the word of God and the seed is the image of Christ in us --the seed of Christ --- the Christ in us
But the OT believers that were born in darkness with dead spirits were reborn or recreated with a living spirit and all that had a good heart and water that which could not be in them yet were changed after Christ die and rose
For Christ lead them into changed because they must be the dead in Christ
But the word of God talking about us as alive with Christ in us because we live in the flesh with Christ in us
we were quickened made alive
and here a veres to look at too
1 Cor 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
Eph 2:2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:
So for me we are born from the fleshly seed of our mom and dad with the seed of Christ in us and if the seed gets water and a good dirt to get it warm it grows to break out the egg of the body
it will break out of that fleshly body into a being like Christ and God
For I do not believe anybody with Christ in them could be called dead in Christ but I believe they are changed into immortality bodies from mortal bodies and not from corruptible ones
Look at Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
we seek for immortality bodies not incorruptible bodies
1 Tim 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
2 Tim 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Eph 6:24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.
the word sincerity is the word immortality but so are all the words incorruptible
So is it a poor translation I do not know but what believe the is know by the writer and who they are talking to and when
but this just me
I will pray about it more and maybe you can pray about it too
thanks
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Beloved Belle
God loves you
Yes that makes good sense
Now I think the word trump is word we do not understand
Is it a horn blown by an Angel or is it just Christ last Fleshly breath for the OT people and for us our last Fleshly breath
The Way taught us the dead are dead but is that true for all or was it once true until Jesus the Christ fix the image or spirit by healing it
If Christ can rise Flesh from death why not spirit from death after he went to the father
yep, Belle sounds like your onto something there. especially when you see man and woman as a whole person-spirit and soul. so soon enough we will shed this mortal body and immoratality will be what there is. Christ is so big i think he can handle us all pretty welll
year-
there are lots of places it talks about being alive in Christ
yeah that carnal man must die to see it
but physical death doesn't seem to be a requirement
why is it considered to be unattainable now?
perhaps it seems too big
or that we couldn't handle it
but God knows us
ps-i think Moses was really Moses
But the OT believers that were born in darkness with dead spirits were reborn or recreated with a living spirit and all that had a good heart and water that which could not be in them yet were changed after Christ die and rose
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2fortheroad
As you say, it's all speculation, since we're discussing someplace we haven't been yet...but, these days I am leaning toward the belief that we are spiritual beings having a human experience, infinite souls/spirits in temporary bodies...so death is the end of this physical body, but perhaps just a transition to another dimension of continuing spiritual life.
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Tom Strange
it's when you quit breathing, your heart stops and you can't wake up
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year2027
God first
Beloved 2fortheroad and Tom Strange
God loves you two
thanks
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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sirguessalot
i read stories about one of my first deaths
saw it on discovery channel
i was swimming as a school of single minded soldiers
towards some singing object just over every horizon
the first of us to see its glow, dove right in and starting digging
i remember reaching the brightest layer
and thought that i had won the prize
and that i had reached my peak
one of those moments when time stood still...and i bit
...but...one taste, then something reached out of the ground itself and grabbed me by tongue, snapped my neck and completely sucked me in and unzipped me, dead as fish bones, scattered like letters etched in the cemetary of headstones...
(it wasnt til later that i found out how much older she was than me...)
anyway, from there, it got really crazy really fast
i thought i was dead, but what really happened was
me and this new world went through this roller coaster ride of a metamorphosis
which seemed to take an eternity compared to the first death
we went through these stages like some mythical mutant creature
but then things slowed down and we lost track of each other
then came this laughter and love from beyond
and sounds of angels singing through some veil
glowing red warmth at times coming right through the wall
i had finally really arrived this time
but this world kept getting smaller and smaller
things seemed to change less and less
things get tighter and tighter
still no questions answered
until one day
kerplunk
woosh
a flood
tremors
screaming
an earthquake
all my angels were crying
then out comes this knife and chops me off...
i was screaming bloody murder.....
and then i feel asleep
and it got better and worse from there
ya see?
i fell for it again
lol
and kinda funny too
because this birth seems like its taking an eternity compared to that last one, too
oops...i mean death
or...um
:blink:
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year2027
God first
Beloved Todd
God bless your loving heart
O how true what you wrote was and best of all how it may be laught and think at the same time
thanks
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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TheInvisibleDan
I've wondered these past few years...if the Infinite God had a back-up "hard-drive" for each time this universe crashed. And...would we notice this while he "re-booted" us?
Perhaps we've died many times in this life and had not known it.
Maybe even in some parallel system somewhere, - an old "hard-drive" -there was a magnetic shift in the poles which wiped out our memories...leaving our old counterparts drooling and wandering about that world aimlessly.
Danny
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year2027
God first
Beloved Danny or TheInvisibleDan
God loves you
will God ever upgrade his hard drive
thanks
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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Shellon
Death.
You want to know what death is? Ask a child who's lost a parent to death.
Ask a man or women who's spouse,partner,lover,companion,friend is now dead.
Ask a parent who has buried one of their babies.
Ask a doctor or nurse that has done everything they can and the patient still dies.
Ask a cop who has come upon a scene to find the victim dead.
Ask an adult child who has cared for his/her parent until death.
2027 Maybe I don't understand your thread, or the point of it. Doctinal, so you must be generating discussion from what a Bible somewhere or a person says, is that it?
When breath life ends.
That's death. Managing without the deceased, that's living with death.
Tell me what is life?
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Ham
Well.. death is.. change. Big change perhaps. Some of the changes in my life I have described as "death", in one way or another..
Interesting though..
Not that I subscribe to it.. or would go for it.. but I think the Tarot "death" card does not exactly signify death, in their belief, but change.. big change.
I know, I know, that's not the bible! :D
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year2027
God first
Beloved spiritual sister Shellon Fockler-North
God loves you
I not sure why I wrote it but maybe talking about it will help some one
For I lost my Mom this year and miss her very must
But after talking with God about it I can go on with my life
I guess I just heard God say write a post on death so I did
thank you my friend
with spiritual love and a holy kiss of Christ blowing your way Roy
Beloved Mr. Hammeroni
God loves you
Yes not the bible but I loved it "but I think the Tarot "death" card does not exactly signify death, in their belief, but change.. big change."
yes death is a change as we believers reach for the change from natural body to spiritual body one like Christ
thanks
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Beloved all
God loves you all
Here something I found about death
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The day I've died, my pall is moving on -
But do not think my heart is still on earth!
Don't weep and pity me: "Oh woe, how awful!"
You fall in devil's snare - woe, that is awful!
Don't cry "Woe, parted!" at my burial -
For me this is the time of joyful meeting!
Don't say "Farewell!" when I'm put in the grave -
A curtain is it for eternal bliss.
You saw "descending" - now look at the rising!
Is setting dangerous for sun and moon?
To you it looks like setting, but it's rising;
The coffin seems a jail, yet it means freedom.
Which seed fell in the earth that did not grow there?
Why do you doubt the fate of human seed?
What bucket came not filled from out the cistern?
Why should the Yusaf "Soul" then fear this well?
Close here your mouth and open it on that side.
So that your hymns may sound in Where- no-place!
Schimmel, Annemarie. Look! This Is Love: Poems of Rumi.
Boston, Mass.: Shambhala Publications, 1991.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
thanks
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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CM
and hardly noone thinks that Sirg's Spiritual Dialog Sessions will help?
some of you are missing out....
here it is in the face
what we hate
the enemy
the hurt of the living
and it hurts me to know that i'll be dead one day
my kids will remember me
their kids i hope
and of course my wife will
yeah what did God accomplish
with His Son anyway?
Is it just a story to tell ourselves?
Or is there really something to it.
Where are the dead really huh?
According to the truth it's supposed to be a comfort to know.
the Truth....who dares to discover it..to see it
in Christ
with Jesus
i didn't write those words
but there they are in thessolonians plain as day
to hear the trumpet
the voice of the angel
how
quiet
it
is
to
hear
it
and this present heaven and earth melts away for the dead
into a new heaven amd earth.................
the gathering....
"i beseech you by our gathering together unto him"
thessolonians again
what's he talking about?
was it something there then
something real?
something they knew
something they saw
is God really love.....
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year2027
God first
Beloved CM or Clay
God loves you
Yes I love were the bible teaches us about death
thanks
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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CM
i know may have meant this well but i'm actually talking about life
the gathering together as mentioned in thessalonians was experienced then
and can be now, it's a misunderstanding of the concept
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year2027
God first
Beloved Clay or CM
God loves you
Yes this talking about life but life after death
So one may say is talking about death but yes its more about life after death
Look the dead in Christ rise or rose first
from dead with hope to life with out end
from dying to living
from alive with Christ to up there with Christ
Yes I understood and I could of wrote it better but I did not
I could of said I like when the bible teaches us about death to life never ending
I hope you understand sorry
thanks
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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CM
up where year?
you may have bitten off more then you can chew on this, but that's alright. Shoot, i've done it myself.
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year2027
God first
Beloved Clay or CM
God loves you
No that is easy
At the time of the last trump to us or Christ we go were the 12 apostels or 11 depending what you believe saw Jesus Christ go
In the air the be with Christ and God
Some may call this heaven but I call it spiritual heaven
But it does not matter what you call it at the return of Christ for each person whether yesterday, today or in the furture
depending on your believe the last trump is
But for me the last trump is our last fleshly breath whether it has come and gone for some or its still coming
Look if this earth gets destroy by fire then all breaths left will stop at the same time
But if the world is not completly destroy then the end as not come yet
Because the ship to save a few was grown years ago and its name is Jesus the Christ or the Christ in us
thanks
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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CM
if it's thought of as an individual experience
it can be seen in a different light
not death but the coming (not return) of the Lord
the Lord does not need to return, he is already here now
anyways death of this mortal body hurts those who are still living for sure and it sucks,
but to really see what it is and what God has prepared for them is comforting
from your writing you have two Christs-one here and one "up there"
it's closer then you may think
love always
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year2027
God first
Beloved Clay or CM
God loves you
No I have only one but Christ has changed to be like God so Christ's seed is in me and many others while sitting on the right hand of God
God is everywhere and Christ is everywhere
Yes we can have differ views of the same things
The coming of Christ for us is just Christ leading us into our new birth to change to be in the form of Christ who is in the form of God
The stage of growth
From seed, to growing seed, to birth, to baby, to child, to teen, to of age, to of middle age, to old age, and to death
some of the fleshly stages but lets break it down
From seed, to birth, to person, and to death
but lets add spiritual seed
To fleshly seed that is planted in his or her fleshly mother with the mother watering him or her. to a person out side his or her fleshly mother, seed of Christ in his or her heart planted in the heart water by the word of God, then fleshly death which leads to spiritual birth
but for some its fleshly death to spiritual death
hope this blesses you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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CM
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
that word of god that was heard and decided upon to believe because it was right there in plain sight
it is done-see revelations
not to say that more is not down the road
but we do not have to wait till death to get plenty of heaven now
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Belle
Interesting, men. Thanks!
If the body returns to dust, the breath life back into the air and the spirit to God for safe keeping, then considering that, DOES shed a different light on what Thessalonians says, does it not? At least that's what I *think* I'm reading here.
If the spirit goes back to God for safe keeping, it's not exactly in a coma-like state, is it? And if not, then it would be awfully sad to think that our loved ones die, God has their spirit which is still alive and vital, and that the spirit of our loved ones don't think twice about those of us left behind..... Does that make sense?
I dunno.....
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year2027
God first
Beloved Clay or CM
God loves you my friend
you wrote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
that word of god that was heard and decided upon to believe because it was right there in plain sight
it is done-see revelations
not to say that more is not down the road
but we do not have to wait till death to get plenty of heaven now
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I not sure but here what I feel God is telling me to look at who is the book talking to
The people alive then when Jesus the Christ went up in the air winning over death
I just have not look yet but even if I did look not sure I could know when wrote and to which age of people
But Let me write what I see maybe it will help maybe not
I believe when Jesus the Christ took his last breath in the fleshly that gave him the right to recreated spiritual alive seed in Adam upward
So for that day forward all people are born with the seed of Christ or the image of Christ in them
But for this seed to grow it must be in good dirt and receive water --The good dirt is a good heart and water is the word of God and the seed is the image of Christ in us --the seed of Christ --- the Christ in us
But the OT believers that were born in darkness with dead spirits were reborn or recreated with a living spirit and all that had a good heart and water that which could not be in them yet were changed after Christ die and rose
For Christ lead them into changed because they must be the dead in Christ
But the word of God talking about us as alive with Christ in us because we live in the flesh with Christ in us
we were quickened made alive
and here a veres to look at too
1 Cor 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
Eph 2:2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:
So for me we are born from the fleshly seed of our mom and dad with the seed of Christ in us and if the seed gets water and a good dirt to get it warm it grows to break out the egg of the body
it will break out of that fleshly body into a being like Christ and God
For I do not believe anybody with Christ in them could be called dead in Christ but I believe they are changed into immortality bodies from mortal bodies and not from corruptible ones
Look at Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
we seek for immortality bodies not incorruptible bodies
1 Tim 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
2 Tim 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Eph 6:24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.
the word sincerity is the word immortality but so are all the words incorruptible
So is it a poor translation I do not know but what believe the is know by the writer and who they are talking to and when
but this just me
I will pray about it more and maybe you can pray about it too
thanks
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Beloved Belle
God loves you
Yes that makes good sense
Now I think the word trump is word we do not understand
Is it a horn blown by an Angel or is it just Christ last Fleshly breath for the OT people and for us our last Fleshly breath
The Way taught us the dead are dead but is that true for all or was it once true until Jesus the Christ fix the image or spirit by healing it
If Christ can rise Flesh from death why not spirit from death after he went to the father
What If the Moses they saw was really Moses
but this is just me
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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CM
yep, Belle sounds like your onto something there. especially when you see man and woman as a whole person-spirit and soul. so soon enough we will shed this mortal body and immoratality will be what there is. Christ is so big i think he can handle us all pretty welll
year-
there are lots of places it talks about being alive in Christ
yeah that carnal man must die to see it
but physical death doesn't seem to be a requirement
why is it considered to be unattainable now?
perhaps it seems too big
or that we couldn't handle it
but God knows us
ps-i think Moses was really Moses
i think there is a great misunderstanding here
Christ did not die-Jesus did
Christ has been around since the beginning
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George Aar
Well, as they say, death is nature's way of telling us to slow down.
Yeah, and if there's pie-in-the-sky after that, I'll be overjoyed. Just not banking on it...
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CM
Mortality being swallowed up by immortality.
A change yes, but not leaving the good behind.
Namely Love. And all we add to the Christ.
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