Lounging around the house the other night there came a knockin' on my door. I had on my very comfy, not proper for company, lounging attire. I figured it was Gramma Mary coming by to check on me, so I opened the door without looking. :o-->
Almost thou persuadest me to consider going *door to door* again!!
After sharing about two sentences worth, he said "your moment is up" and asked me to no longer take up his time and remove my rear end from his table.
I remembered this man.
A few months later, coincidentially, our branch was doing a Saturday Car Wash. We all participated, and any donations would be appreciated. The washes were free for anyone who had the balls to not make a donation. :D-->
Anyway, guess who shows up? Mr. Nasty.
I dropped my sponge and bucket and stared at the guy, now all smiles cause he was getting a free car wash. Smiley smirky face.
I wanted so much to ask everyone, out of respect for me, to drop their sponges, but what the heck.
Oldies ----------------------------- (sigh)
I guess by this time (table to the car wash) you had forgiven him 70 X 7, eh?
wait -- I guess not -- since you remembered this man.
Check your premises. They are found wanting. :(-->
Anyway, it was a really pleasant experience and those two young men, I think, are excellent ambassadors for your church.
I wonder how pleasant it was for folks when I tried to beat them to death with my well worn copy of Jesus Christ is not God, in their very own living rooms..
Oh yeah.. that sure helped them, I'm sure..
Yeah, yeah, they were BEATING a path to my door step..
Friend Belle. Do you seriously believe that these fine gentlemen who knocked on your door jumping over themselves wanting to moe your lawn and manicure your property offered all that all because of the love of God and expect absolutely nothing in return?
Wait a minute ---
Wait a minute ---
What's the difference between that and a *free* car wash? -->
Ya got me scratching my head here Oldies, unless the *donations* you all asked for at the car wash were on the same caliber of *donations* asked from us by twi to take the class.
And if that was the case -- it was payment, and not a donation. What was the suggested donation at that car wash eh?
Not everything is a sales job, sometimes unconditional is unconditional.
Mstar said it best, and somehow -- I gotta think that this is what it is all about, and this is where we missed it in twi.
As WOW's we were in sales. Not sharing or promoting the Word, but rather selling twi. Tapped into the *true family*, we (read I), promoted that over the Word. The Word played second chair, to first violinist -- docvic.
Who really cares about the Word as taught by others??? We have seen the Light!! We have a MOG to show you THE WAY!
And meanwhile -- the main MOG (Jesus Christ) must have been saying all along just what mstar said:
Unconditional, means unconditional -- read all about it in John 3:16!
Okay, I'm the daughter of a Freemason and was raised Mormon.
So what? Right?
Well....
I look at it this way....
TWI only had a few thousand followers and tons of negitive publicity, dwindling numbers, and nothing really all that close to the "more than abundant life" they were promoting.
The Mormons had only a few million, not a heck of a lot of negitive publicity, growing numbers, and are known for their prosperity.
You do the math.
In TWI we were taught to be on guard, to try to quickly bait and hook newbies, and to NOT GIVE to those who weren't in the household. So, perhaps to some of us who still have "Waybrain" or whatever we're calling it these days, some cute dude in a shirt and tie from SLC, Utah offering to help you out and mow your lawn for free must not really be "free"... right?
I'd venture to say that the worst thing that will come from your encounter with the Mormons is that they'll do a baptism for you by proxy after you've kicked the bucket, because they believe that will give you the chance to choose heaven, if you wish. And so what... is that bad?
When I was in Northern NY coordinating College WOWs we had a person in our fellowship who was related to the Smith family out of which the mormon founder came. She told us that before he supposedly received this great vision he was the "black sheep" of the family - no one expected him to succeed at anything. Anyway, a couple of her relatives had his Bible amongst their possessions and when a couple of Mormon missionaries came to their door, they made the mistake of mentioning that they had it. Their home immediately became a Mormon "shrine" in the eyes of every missionary team in Eastern Canada and the NE US. Every team made it a point to stop by the house from then on and ask to look at that Bible.
When I lived in California many years ago, I got to know quite a few Mormon families and noticed quite a few things.
Here are some general observations re: Mormons I've known (just MY observations)...
They almost always live in well to do neighborhoods
They always have pianos in their homes...and some family member invariably teaches piano lessons.
They seem to exhibit a mastery of living the "more than abundant life" that TWI could only dream of.
They have lots and lots of kids.
They have pretty and colorful homes with decorations and pretty pictures on the walls as opposed to the TWI standard stark white walls that were bare except for the obligitory 5x7 portraits of the BOT and reigning MOG du jour.
They, for the most part, have cheerful dispositions and a general zest for life.
They don't seem to have the disgusting TWI habit of kissing strangers on the mouth at every opportunity.
They usually share my political views regarding liberty, self governance and independence and have strong sense of self reliance.
Mo and others might disagree with me, but this was just my personal take on it.
Rascal said.."It has very little to do with promoting the Mormon religion"
Are you really that naive ? What do you think they go riding around on their bikes for..fresh air !! It's ALL about promoting their church !! And I know MANY who have vowed they would never go anywhere near it again..they have MORE rules and regulations than twi could ever have dreamed of..
Whilst Selina and I were visiting her Pacific homeland, before we were married, one of her Aunties husbands (an elder in his Mormon church) made 'overtones' for her to be one of his 'concubines' (as they are not allowed to marry more than one woman) only because of the law mind you.
He was the first and last guy I ever knocked to the ground.Read Bluzemans' post on the Mormon church to see that they aint that differn't to Der Vey !!
a few of these mormons over here in Iraq have been called away from their two year mission to fulfill an urgent "mission" here.
I spoke with one of these missionarys and he said that he was 9 months away from completing his two year mission. I asked him if he was going to have to start over and he said no but rather that he was going to be able to return to his mission at the point where he had left.
I was just wondering if a twit were on a WOW year or 4 month mission, and a similar thing happened, would twi have extended the same 'courtesy'?
I was just wondering if a twit were on a WOW year or 4 month mission, and a similar thing happened, would twi have extended the same 'courtesy'?
That's an interesting question. Not that the Way could prevent someone from going, but would they have required a "Way Disciple" to re-do their entire 6 month or year commitment?
Anybody here ever do the Way Disciple thing? Was this covered in your training?
People being people, I can suppose that some Mormons are sincere in their desire to be better people, as were/are some Wayfers.
I also think that doing good works are good for ME as well as for the person I help. And even when I was in, the other guy getting born again or taking "The Class" was secondary to me. I thought that was God's problem, and out of my control.
Now that I think about it, I remember feeling guilty for not being more zealous, not witnessing more, not winning more, etc. etc. And I felt hypocritical "going witnessing," making friends that weren't really going to stay friends unless they joined up.
Sheesh, I like me more this way, just trying to be a good person with no strings attached!
Hmmmmmmmm, I don't know what kind of responses I was expecting, but this wasn't it. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that OM thinks they are full of it and that they weren't sincere in their offer.
I know that some people consider the Mormon religion a cult and that there are some things they believe and require that are definitely questionable considering other people's beliefs. I also know that there are some really good Mormons, just like most of us were really good people when we were in TWI. We were all fully persuaded in our minds that what we were doing was right and we really wanted to help people (okay, y'all did. I came in after the "people don't care what you know until they know you care" teachings of TWI).
I've met kind and rude people of all persuasions. After my experience with TWI I try to avoid pigeon-holing and lumping "all kinds of...." into one big classification. I prefer to look at the individual without any labels. With that perspective, these young men were polite, kind-hearted and (I believe) genuinely would come help me if I were to call them. Just as I believe some of you would have made the same offer during your tenure in TWI before we were jaded and forced to witness instead of sharing from our hearts with genuine concern and love for mankind.
I wanted TempleLady to know that I had a very pleasant experience with two ambassadors from her church. She takes a beating on here sometimes for her beliefs, and, while I may not be part of her church I thought she might enjoy a little positive feedback for a change.
Maybe we should start a thread on conditional vs unconditional giving since some people obviously still have the TWI mindset that nothing is free and unconditional friendships, love, giving, etc. doesn't exist. Pity, they're truly missing out on a lot in life.
But we do no more than is expected of any Christian
OM and Allan--I've read more of all the pros and cons concerning the LDS church, for over 34 years while investigating it that the both of you collectively.
But more important I read the BOM for myself, I went to Meetings, I go to the temple. And in all those years I have yet to find one single thing that contadicts the following facts
Jesus Christ was the son of GOD who came to earth to live as a man
He lived a perfect life
He took the burden of all our sins; the past, the present, the future, on himself which caused him such agony in the Garden of Gesthemene he sweated drops of blood.
He was improsoned, stripped, beaten, scourged, and mocked as a punishment for those transgression until he was so broken and bloody he could scarece be recognized as a man
He willingly went to Calvary so he could die. Knowing that he would be resurrected and thus we would be given the gift of eternal live througfh his suffering and atonement for our sins.
IF and when I find the LDS church teachin gdoctrine other than this I will leave.
As for the rest of it, I reaaly don't care-- the church is filled with imperfect people who do thengs wrong, mess up , and generally just blow it. Sometimes on a gigantic level.
Unlike TWI and its followers the LDS church does not try to make sin OKAy with pronouncements of Lock boxes, MOGFATs, and corrupt leadership etal
I asked if I may have a moment of his time to talk about God and the bible?
After sharing about two sentences worth, he said "your moment is up" and asked me to no longer take up his time and remove my rear end from his table.
If they are truely not interested why should they be expected to listen more than the minute they gave you? I do that with telemarketers. If they are selling a product or service of no interest to me I interrupt and end the conversation. If it sounds like something I want or need I allow them to continue.
If they are truely not interested why should they be expected to listen more than the minute they gave you?
Come on, STL, you were in TWI, weren't you? ;) Some people still have the TWI mindset that THEY and what THEY know and have to say are more important and "better" than anything or anyone outside of TWI's doctrinal bondage. I was one very self-important person when I was in TWI and considered those who wouldn't listen to, much less agree with me, as ignorant low-life body & soul scum...."empties walking by" - "no better than an animal" in LCM vernacular. Obviously some people learned very well and STILL have that egotistical attitude.
Mo, those gentlemen made more of an impression on me than I think I EVER made on someone the whole time I was in TWI combined. :) They are certainly more "Christian" in their attitude, behavior and presence than most of those who hold fast to the TWI doctrine and continue to defend vee pee and all things TWI.
I'm actually glad that my unit here in Iraq is full of LDS. There is definitely a lot less arguing, harangueing(sp?), shouting at the top of your lungs at someone, etc. than if my unit were full of TWI minded people. At least that's my opinion based upon my experience when I was actually in TWI.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
8
10
7
9
Popular Days
Sep 22
39
Oct 3
9
Sep 30
8
Oct 1
7
Top Posters In This Topic
oldiesman 8 posts
Allan 10 posts
Belle 7 posts
dmiller 9 posts
Popular Days
Sep 22 2005
39 posts
Oct 3 2005
9 posts
Sep 30 2005
8 posts
Oct 1 2005
7 posts
dmiller
Almost thou persuadest me to consider going *door to door* again!!
David
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Oldies ----------------------------- (sigh)
I guess by this time (table to the car wash) you had forgiven him 70 X 7, eh?
wait -- I guess not -- since you remembered this man.
Check your premises. They are found wanting.
:(-->
David
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I wonder how pleasant it was for folks when I tried to beat them to death with my well worn copy of Jesus Christ is not God, in their very own living rooms..
Oh yeah.. that sure helped them, I'm sure..
Yeah, yeah, they were BEATING a path to my door step..
some "ambassador".. sheesh.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Good grief.. Oldies, I have heard of a cure for your situation, but I don't think you'd make it.. sheesh.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Wait a minute ---
Wait a minute ---
What's the difference between that and a *free* car wash?
-->
Ya got me scratching my head here Oldies, unless the *donations* you all asked for at the car wash were on the same caliber of *donations* asked from us by twi to take the class.
And if that was the case -- it was payment, and not a donation. What was the suggested donation at that car wash eh?
$100.00 perhaps?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Mstar said it best, and somehow -- I gotta think that this is what it is all about, and this is where we missed it in twi.
As WOW's we were in sales. Not sharing or promoting the Word, but rather selling twi. Tapped into the *true family*, we (read I), promoted that over the Word. The Word played second chair, to first violinist -- docvic.
Who really cares about the Word as taught by others??? We have seen the Light!! We have a MOG to show you THE WAY!
And meanwhile -- the main MOG (Jesus Christ) must have been saying all along just what mstar said:
Unconditional, means unconditional -- read all about it in John 3:16!
David
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ron G.
Freemasonry is weird?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Come to think of it, who isn't?
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChasUFarley
Okay, I'm the daughter of a Freemason and was raised Mormon.
So what? Right?
Well....
I look at it this way....
TWI only had a few thousand followers and tons of negitive publicity, dwindling numbers, and nothing really all that close to the "more than abundant life" they were promoting.
The Mormons had only a few million, not a heck of a lot of negitive publicity, growing numbers, and are known for their prosperity.
You do the math.
In TWI we were taught to be on guard, to try to quickly bait and hook newbies, and to NOT GIVE to those who weren't in the household. So, perhaps to some of us who still have "Waybrain" or whatever we're calling it these days, some cute dude in a shirt and tie from SLC, Utah offering to help you out and mow your lawn for free must not really be "free"... right?
I'd venture to say that the worst thing that will come from your encounter with the Mormons is that they'll do a baptism for you by proxy after you've kicked the bucket, because they believe that will give you the chance to choose heaven, if you wish. And so what... is that bad?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Research Geek
When I was in Northern NY coordinating College WOWs we had a person in our fellowship who was related to the Smith family out of which the mormon founder came. She told us that before he supposedly received this great vision he was the "black sheep" of the family - no one expected him to succeed at anything. Anyway, a couple of her relatives had his Bible amongst their possessions and when a couple of Mormon missionaries came to their door, they made the mistake of mentioning that they had it. Their home immediately became a Mormon "shrine" in the eyes of every missionary team in Eastern Canada and the NE US. Every team made it a point to stop by the house from then on and ask to look at that Bible.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ron G.
When I lived in California many years ago, I got to know quite a few Mormon families and noticed quite a few things.
Here are some general observations re: Mormons I've known (just MY observations)...
They almost always live in well to do neighborhoods
They always have pianos in their homes...and some family member invariably teaches piano lessons.
They seem to exhibit a mastery of living the "more than abundant life" that TWI could only dream of.
They have lots and lots of kids.
They have pretty and colorful homes with decorations and pretty pictures on the walls as opposed to the TWI standard stark white walls that were bare except for the obligitory 5x7 portraits of the BOT and reigning MOG du jour.
They, for the most part, have cheerful dispositions and a general zest for life.
They don't seem to have the disgusting TWI habit of kissing strangers on the mouth at every opportunity.
They usually share my political views regarding liberty, self governance and independence and have strong sense of self reliance.
Mo and others might disagree with me, but this was just my personal take on it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brother Speed
Hey Y'all,
60 percent, over half of my battalion is Mormon. I don't throw stones here; if I hit someone chances are better than not that I'd hit a Mormon.
Small world? I have yet to meet an ex-twi or current twi over here.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
HA!! Says a lot about the effect twi had on the world, eh??
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Allan
Rascal said.."It has very little to do with promoting the Mormon religion"
Are you really that naive ? What do you think they go riding around on their bikes for..fresh air !! It's ALL about promoting their church !! And I know MANY who have vowed they would never go anywhere near it again..they have MORE rules and regulations than twi could ever have dreamed of..
Whilst Selina and I were visiting her Pacific homeland, before we were married, one of her Aunties husbands (an elder in his Mormon church) made 'overtones' for her to be one of his 'concubines' (as they are not allowed to marry more than one woman) only because of the law mind you.
He was the first and last guy I ever knocked to the ground.Read Bluzemans' post on the Mormon church to see that they aint that differn't to Der Vey !!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brother Speed
a few of these mormons over here in Iraq have been called away from their two year mission to fulfill an urgent "mission" here.
I spoke with one of these missionarys and he said that he was 9 months away from completing his two year mission. I asked him if he was going to have to start over and he said no but rather that he was going to be able to return to his mission at the point where he had left.
I was just wondering if a twit were on a WOW year or 4 month mission, and a similar thing happened, would twi have extended the same 'courtesy'?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kevlar2000
That's an interesting question. Not that the Way could prevent someone from going, but would they have required a "Way Disciple" to re-do their entire 6 month or year commitment?
Anybody here ever do the Way Disciple thing? Was this covered in your training?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
shazdancer
People being people, I can suppose that some Mormons are sincere in their desire to be better people, as were/are some Wayfers.
I also think that doing good works are good for ME as well as for the person I help. And even when I was in, the other guy getting born again or taking "The Class" was secondary to me. I thought that was God's problem, and out of my control.
Now that I think about it, I remember feeling guilty for not being more zealous, not witnessing more, not winning more, etc. etc. And I felt hypocritical "going witnessing," making friends that weren't really going to stay friends unless they joined up.
Sheesh, I like me more this way, just trying to be a good person with no strings attached!
Regards,
Shaz
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
Hmmmmmmmm, I don't know what kind of responses I was expecting, but this wasn't it. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that OM thinks they are full of it and that they weren't sincere in their offer.
I know that some people consider the Mormon religion a cult and that there are some things they believe and require that are definitely questionable considering other people's beliefs. I also know that there are some really good Mormons, just like most of us were really good people when we were in TWI. We were all fully persuaded in our minds that what we were doing was right and we really wanted to help people (okay, y'all did. I came in after the "people don't care what you know until they know you care" teachings of TWI).
I've met kind and rude people of all persuasions. After my experience with TWI I try to avoid pigeon-holing and lumping "all kinds of...." into one big classification. I prefer to look at the individual without any labels. With that perspective, these young men were polite, kind-hearted and (I believe) genuinely would come help me if I were to call them. Just as I believe some of you would have made the same offer during your tenure in TWI before we were jaded and forced to witness instead of sharing from our hearts with genuine concern and love for mankind.
I wanted TempleLady to know that I had a very pleasant experience with two ambassadors from her church. She takes a beating on here sometimes for her beliefs, and, while I may not be part of her church I thought she might enjoy a little positive feedback for a change.
Maybe we should start a thread on conditional vs unconditional giving since some people obviously still have the TWI mindset that nothing is free and unconditional friendships, love, giving, etc. doesn't exist. Pity, they're truly missing out on a lot in life.
Edited by BelleLink to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Link to comment
Share on other sites
templelady
Thank you flor your kind words about my church.
But we do no more than is expected of any Christian
OM and Allan--I've read more of all the pros and cons concerning the LDS church, for over 34 years while investigating it that the both of you collectively.
But more important I read the BOM for myself, I went to Meetings, I go to the temple. And in all those years I have yet to find one single thing that contadicts the following facts
Jesus Christ was the son of GOD who came to earth to live as a man
He lived a perfect life
He took the burden of all our sins; the past, the present, the future, on himself which caused him such agony in the Garden of Gesthemene he sweated drops of blood.
He was improsoned, stripped, beaten, scourged, and mocked as a punishment for those transgression until he was so broken and bloody he could scarece be recognized as a man
He willingly went to Calvary so he could die. Knowing that he would be resurrected and thus we would be given the gift of eternal live througfh his suffering and atonement for our sins.
IF and when I find the LDS church teachin gdoctrine other than this I will leave.
As for the rest of it, I reaaly don't care-- the church is filled with imperfect people who do thengs wrong, mess up , and generally just blow it. Sometimes on a gigantic level.
Unlike TWI and its followers the LDS church does not try to make sin OKAy with pronouncements of Lock boxes, MOGFATs, and corrupt leadership etal
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Stayed Too Long
If they are truely not interested why should they be expected to listen more than the minute they gave you? I do that with telemarketers. If they are selling a product or service of no interest to me I interrupt and end the conversation. If it sounds like something I want or need I allow them to continue.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
Come on, STL, you were in TWI, weren't you? ;) Some people still have the TWI mindset that THEY and what THEY know and have to say are more important and "better" than anything or anyone outside of TWI's doctrinal bondage. I was one very self-important person when I was in TWI and considered those who wouldn't listen to, much less agree with me, as ignorant low-life body & soul scum...."empties walking by" - "no better than an animal" in LCM vernacular. Obviously some people learned very well and STILL have that egotistical attitude.
Mo, those gentlemen made more of an impression on me than I think I EVER made on someone the whole time I was in TWI combined. :) They are certainly more "Christian" in their attitude, behavior and presence than most of those who hold fast to the TWI doctrine and continue to defend vee pee and all things TWI.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brother Speed
You know what, Belle?
I'm actually glad that my unit here in Iraq is full of LDS. There is definitely a lot less arguing, harangueing(sp?), shouting at the top of your lungs at someone, etc. than if my unit were full of TWI minded people. At least that's my opinion based upon my experience when I was actually in TWI.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.