VPW's Source for the Law of Believing

[Oakspear]

I can hardly believe that plagiarism is such a hot topic for you folks. It's just one more piece of proof that you folks didn't pay very close attention to Dr teachings. He so often admitted to collecting things from others FOR US. He even taught that originality is a crock when you view it spiritually.

Noooo...it doesn't "prove" that we didn't pay attention...just that we didn't believe him. Plagiarism becomes a "hot topic" only when some folks, like yourself, deny that there was any plagiarism, or minimize it's importance.

There are just SO many things that none of you all got the first time around. Those who come back to PFAL are going to see that Dr collected things BY REVELATION and that the whole collection is 2000 years unique and it is worth mastering with meekness.

Another good reason not to 'come back" to PFAL

Why don't you, instead of tearing something down (which anyone can do with all the inspiration the world provides), why don't you try building something up? Try and see what positive things you can OFFER to people in general, which is difficult, instead of taking the easy and less useful road of WARNING people agains some tiny tiny cult that went bad. If you all spent as much time in your KJVs you'd have much more light in your lives, instead of all the focus and search for darkness you're becoming specialists at.

Since this is a website devoted to giving the "other side", i.e. the side "other" than the one Wierwille and his successors presented, it is entirely appropriate to attempt to tear down what we feel is harmful.

Since you know very little about what any of us do in our time away from GSC, you have nothing to base your statement on.

Try building something up, if you're up for the challenge. Try.

There is no "try", only "do" saith Yoda ;) Edited October 1, 2005 by Oakspear

[Mike]

Oakspear,

You wrote: 'Since this is a website devoted to giving the "other side", i.e. the side "other" than the one Wierwille and his successors presented, it is entirely appropriate to attempt to tear down what we feel is harmful."

There's big difference between a website being devoted to something and PEOPLE devoting their lives to that same cause. A website being dedicated to "giving the other side" is one thing, but it's a shame for people to devote their LIVES to being so negative and cultivating great such skills at tearing down.

***

You wrote: "Since you know very little about what any of us do in our time away from GSC, you have nothing to base your statement on."

Yes I do.

I know what it means to have thousands of posts, an average of some 4 per day. Many have more. I know how saturated a mind can get when it's constantly, many times per day, coming back to the same activity at the keyboard. I know about all the thought that goes, when far from the keyboard, into digesting what was previously read and what will be written next.

Even with my positive building up message I have to take breaks of a month or so every now and then, because I DO KNOW what kid of lifestyle is led when posting many times per day. I know how saturated with this stuff you all are.

Why did someone say that with the new software "our world as we know it" would come to an end? Why did everyone go along with that remark? Because there's a lifestyle of commitment and saturation going on with all the heavy posters here. But what is that commitment of life TO? It's to tearing down, and NOT to building up.

Many here are repeating the same zeal and commitment to tearing down that they had in the ministry when they were attempting to build up. Some might have even been "tear down" experts back then. I see little difference between Craig's spit and many posted thoughts here.

Edited October 1, 2005 by Mike

[Mike]

Oakspear,

You quoted me with: "I can hardly believe that plagiarism is such a hot topic for you folks. It's just one more piece of proof that you folks didn't pay very close attention to Dr teachings. He so often admitted to collecting things from others FOR US. He even taught that originality is a crock when you view it spiritually."

And then you responded with: "Noooo...it doesn't "prove" that we didn't pay attention...just that we didn't believe him..."

Paying close attention and believing are very much related. Even if not, you still help me prove a point. Hardly anyone BELIEVED the teachings of PFAL, or if they did it wasn't for long or in total. I too am guilty of this one. I DID look into Dr's sources long ago and saw that Dr wasn't into 5-senses "originality" as much as he was into collecting, but I too failed to believe many things he taught.

Because Dr's teachings were not fully believed, it was often a mere exercise in rote memorization that we were engaged in, maybe just so some of us could sit in seats of power and "teach." In such a mode MANY things are not fully assimilated into the mind. Those who come back to PFAL and seriously attempt to master it with meekness are in for a VERY positive surprise.

Edited October 1, 2005 by Mike

[dmiller]

I can hardly believe that plagiarism is such a hot topic for you folks. It's just one more piece of proof that you folks didn't pay very close attention to Dr teachings.

well --- yes, and no. :)

Docvic did a good job of taking from others, and purported it to be his own

*research* (as you know).

I have to agree, I didn't pay real close attention (back then), but now that I do (these days), I have no problem identifying a *problem*, and calling it by it's real name. :unsure:

So if any topic (like plagiarism) from twi is now *suspect*, perhaps it is because some of us *woke up*, and are not as guillible (sp?) as we used to be, eh??

Just an IMO on my part. B)

David

Edited October 1, 2005 by dmiller

[Mike]

dmiller,

You wrote: "...and purported it to be his own *research*..."

I think you have some words mixed up here.

Dr did his own research, just not all of it was in the man made texts of reconstructed ancient God-breathed scriptures. Some of his research was in the partially God inspired teachings of modern people.

Shall I post "Light Began To Dawn" again? In that transcript Dr attributes some of his non-scriptural sources as getting revelation from God. Just like the ancient scriptures suffered from man's interference in mis-copies, forgeries, possibly even total loss, and CERTAINLY mistranslation, so did the other sources have contamination.

Dr's job was to get the revelation as to what non-scriptural sources were to be focused on, then to get the revelation as to how to fine tune them and get them in line with God's pure Word. He got revelation as to what exact order God wanted him to present them to us.

Lastly (and again "Light Began To Dawn" documents this) if all else failed, God would give him a direct revelation as he worked the scriptures.

Dr did all this research himself, with God's guidance.

What Dr did NOT do is purport that he came up with it all on his own.

Inattentive and/or unbelieving students of his did THAT purporting.

Dr did NOT purport to do all the 5-senses research into the ancient scriptures. One of the later and most prominent cases of Dr using the 5-senses research results of another was Dr. Martin's work on the star of Bethlehem.

Dr did NOT purport to get it all by direct revelation or divine dictation.

Dr did NOT purport to do all the 5-senses research in the ancient scriptures himself.

Dr DID claim that what he DID do was all done by revelation by the time it got into "book and magazine form." He even claimed that some of his staff got some revelation in the editing processes.

When God gave another man a revelation, He, GOD, had the right to tell Dr to use it and BE DAMNED THE COPYRIGHT LAWS OF MAN! Dr got away with it because God was with him. He did God's will and he gave us His Word!

Edited October 1, 2005 by Mike

[Greek2me]

Hey guys, I haven't been a round for a while and thought I'd add my 2 cents.

I can't believe there are still Mike - anigans going on. After all, he's been proven to be:

1. a lying, idolotrous troll of the lowest life form whose purpose is to spread the message that pfal is God breathed -which we all know that it isn't / wasn't, as has been proven now more times than anyone can count. After all, no one would make staments like - Jesus Christ is learning from pfal in heaven and will return to teach from it - UNLESS they were a.) mentally ill or b.) spirituallly influenced to put it mildly. Such a statement goes so far beyond ridiculous that I'm sure even he (somewhere deep down) knows how ludicrous it is. Think about it. Jesus Christ supposedly learning from a collection of false teachings and plagerized writings from a sinful, leacherous cultist. Jesus had a perfect, non- fallen nature of SIn, connection with the Father of spirits (unlike uncle vicster) and He's supposed to be learning from pfal? Wasn't it be revelation FROM JESUS CHRIST that Paul leaarned his gospel? If weirwille did indeed receive revelation who did he get revelation from if it wasn't Jesus Himself? I really doubt that Jesus Christ needs to learn ANYTHING from vpw. After all, didn't he know what was in man and had no need for anyone to tell Him?

or

2. Completely, totally and unequivocally right and the rest of us are wrong and misguided and he, through and by the love of God, is here to save some of the misguided and ignorant.

Mike,

Go home. Stay away from here. I, for one, don't want you around anymore. Please leave. Take your message somewhere else. Think about it. There are converts just waiting to be had on other forums so why don't you spread that good news of yours to some new ears. Your years of effort here have netted you zero results. none. zip. nada. You're trying to sell refridgerators to eskimos. We don't need it and we sure as hell don't want it.

To the rest of my fellow posters... sorry for the semi-rant, but enough is enough. Mike, why are you still reading this? I thought I told you to leave!

[Mike]

greek2me,

You wrote: "I thought I told you to leave!"

You may think a lot of things that are bunk!

Haven't you learned to not antagonize me? You were the one who "inspired" me to bring out my Table of Challenge.

What God-breathed text do you use as your only rule?

Do you wing it? Or do you have something in print that's bigger than you?

If I had the time I'd dare you to a debate. You'd lose!

Edited October 1, 2005 by Mike

[CM]

What God-breathed text do you use as your only rule?

only rule Mike? Only rule, Only rule, Only rule

c'mon you know thats a pharisee talking.

what about the rule of love?

what about the rulership of God, Christ?

in your heart where it counts...

[Tom Strange]

Mike said:

There are SO many things I could say in retaliation to many items, but why waste the time? Much of it I've already said. Once in a while I feel inspired, knowing that sometimes the text I post is good for audiences other than here. Other times I know that just one here may get a tiny bit of the true story if I post. But many times I know it would waste my time, something your source of inspiration would love to see, I'm sure.

Such a heavy burden you bear my brother... such a heavy burden...

[bliss]

Sorry Mike,

10 years ago I might have bought your shpeel, hook line and sinker....................

So did Doc Vic get "revelation" to drug and rape young corps gals?

Or was that just his "5 senses" in operation?

I know all men sin.........

But the sin of that man ERASES any "revelation" he might have gotten......

So God will have to get me the" truths" another way.

Let me see........The BIBLE how bout that, there's a start.

[rascal]

Sorry Mike,

But the sin of that man ERASES any "revelation" he might have gotten......

So God will have to get me the" truths" another way.

Let me see........The BIBLE how bout that, there's a start.

AMEN! ...and I am gratefull that he does :)

[Raf]

I used the time travel taunting of two years ago to prove your lack of deep understanding to you. EVEN if WW were correct in his "morph" thread thesis (which he's not), it's STILL the case that my time travel taunting proves a lack of any kind of deep mastery of the material.

I agree, Mike. In fact, I think it's one more little piece of incontravertible proof that you haven't mastered the material at all.

When God gave another man a revelation, He, GOD, had the right to tell Dr to use it and BE DAMNED THE COPYRIGHT LAWS OF MAN! Dr got away with it because God was with him. He did God's will and he gave us His Word!

Dude, FINE! If you acknowledge he plagiarized, but you say so what, that's fine!

Now you've gone and implicated God in "Dr's" dishonesty. If you're satisfied with a dishonest god, so be it. Your god is dishonest. Been trying to tell you that all along. Good to see you finally admit it.

Your false god is a joke and a jerk, Mike.

If I had the time I'd dare you to a debate. You'd lose!

Maybe. Your debating skills are impressive. But you'd still be wrong, idolizing the predatory, charlatan prophet a false god..

Edited October 1, 2005 by Raf

[Raf]

You may think a lot of things that are bunk!

Uh oh. Mike's talking to himself again. Give him room, everybody.

[Ham]

Well, one things for certain. When the Lord Jesus Christ returns, he's not gonna be staggering, carrying a bottle of Drambuie, and waving a PFAL book..

[GarthP2000]

Well, one things for certain. When the Lord Jesus Christ returns, he's not gonna be staggering, carrying a bottle of Drambuie, and waving a PFAL book..

If he were, if I were heading on my way up, I'd say "Let me back down from this 'return' NOW!!" while desperately grabbing for the nearest solid object before I get too high up.

I suppose I'd rather take my chances with some 'antichrist' and his government than with Smikeol's version of the Return.

:P :D

[Mike]

Raf,

If there was EVER a time to apply the advice of Acts: "We ought to obey God rather than man" it's in the area of recognizing that God is the true owner of all revelation He gives to man, and that it is NOT dishonest for God, the true owner, to distribute His revelations any way He sees fit. It is the True God who says THE COPYRIGHT BE DAMNED LAWS in this case. They are overridden by a higher law in a higher court. The only dishonesty here is in your insistence the true God must obey the laws of men.

*******

CM,

Since we were born natural men and unable to comprehend the things of God, we need a RULE to get our minds in shape to hear the still small voice of the True God in the midst of the roar of counterfeit voices.

We NEED a written rule to define love for us in the first place. Once we master that written Word, that RULE for faith and practice, with our 5-senses we can then graduate to getting things spiritually.

Skipping around the 5-senses learning stage is tempting, but is also disastrous. The devil can outsmart any man who thinks he can skip that necessary rule in the 5-senses realm. He did this with Eve. He tried to do it with Jesus, but young Jesus had mastered what writings God had supplied him with, so he was not deceived by the devil in his desert temptations.

Dr taught us in the AC with Key #4 of the "16 keys to walking in the spirit" that we must study the Word (written rule) much. What we CAN know by the five senses God expects us to know.

Before you can become an accurate living book (as you've put it) you have to line up with an accurate written book, and accurate rule.

*******

bliss,

Please check your private messages.

It's the button line near the top of every screen, to the extreme right side.

.

Edited October 1, 2005 by Mike

[Raf]

It's very noble, the way you stand up for your impotent, criminal, unethical, unimaginative and resourceless god, Mike. Brought a tear to my eye, is what it did.

Uncontrollable laughter does that to me.

Edited October 1, 2005 by Raf

[GarthP2000]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Good one, Raf!! ... It did to me too.

B)

[Mike]

Has anyone ever seen comedian Emo Phillips do his little skit depicting the meeting of two religious people? It's quite funny.

Two people meet in an airport lounge and gradually compare notes on their lives. They are overjoyed to discover that they come from the same religious backgrounds. They compare their identical tracks through the evolution of their church and celebrate one great doctrinal agreement after another, hugging each other to tears. Finally they come to one last item involving some synod split that occurred only a few years prior and that they are on opposite sides of this one last minor difference! With a sudden burst of hatred one draws out a dagger and plunges it into the heart of the other while screaming the words "Die, you heretic!"

Raf, you remind me of that skit.

Have you pondered much the fact that for nearly every element of doctrine you derive from your Bible, I stand in complete agreement with it? We both believe in Jesus as Lord, but as a man and not God, and that God raised him from the dead. We both expect him to judge us someday. I see that day as having arrived and you see it farther away.

Besides my beliefs on Dr's authority to pen our instructions for being gathered together now, are you aware of any KJV verses we would fundamentally disagree on in content and not mere timing? I'm not. Maybe there a few.

Edited October 2, 2005 by Mike

[CM]

"CM,

Since we were born natural men and unable to comprehend the things of God, we need a RULE to get our minds in shape to hear the still small voice of the True God in the midst of the roar of counterfeit voices.

We NEED a written rule to define love for us in the first place. Once we master that written Word, that RULE for faith and practice, with our 5-senses we can then graduate to getting things spiritually.

Skipping around the 5-senses learning stage is tempting, but is also disastrous. The devil can outsmart any man who thinks he can skip that necessary rule in the 5-senses realm. He did this with Eve. He tried to do it with Jesus, but young Jesus had mastered what writings God had supplied him with, so he was not deceived by the devil in his desert temptations.

Dr taught us in the AC with Key #4 of the "16 keys to walking in the spirit" that we must study the Word (written rule) much. What we CAN know by the five senses God expects us to know.

Before you can become an accurate living book (as you've put it) you have to line up with an accurate written book, and accurate rule."

this is bs and you know i know it

we were born natural men and unable to comprehend the things of God

this is not true at all

we need a RULE to get our minds in shape to hear the still small voice of the True God in the midst of the roar of counterfeit voices.

having a little trouble in this area mike?

not to hard for me to figure out who's voice is who's

We NEED a written rule to define love for us in the first place.

....! you are blind to love is the problem

Sheesh you should really get a grip. I ain't wasting much more on you these days

Edited October 2, 2005 by CM

[Raf]

Ah, the Emo Phillips defense.

Haven't seen that one in a long time.

Let's go over a few areas where we disagree, shall we?

Dr. Got revelation from God in 1942, saw snow on the gas pumps to prove it. His vicious, predatory behavior is excusable, considering the things he taught. In fact, his victims are more at fault than he was. The works he penned are more reliable than the Bible itself, and supercede it whether there's evidence for such a conclusion or not. The creator of heaven and earth is incapable of getting a man to communicate His Word without resorting to plagiarism. If not for Wierwille's writings, Jesus would not know as much as he does today.

Mike, you are not my brother, because Jesus Christ is not your Lord.

And yes, I could think of plenty of Bible verses where we would disagree. Those condemning idolatry come to mind.

Edited October 2, 2005 by Raf

[Ham]

Raf, all this makes me want to nominate yet one more chosen individual to be reincarnated as a woman in the Mog's "service".. ptooie.

[TheInvisibleDan]

To the rest of my fellow posters... sorry for the semi-rant, but enough is enough. Mike, why are you still reading this? I thought I told you to leave!

Greek,

If he bothers you that much, just add his name to the 'Ignore" setting in your "Controls".

Danny

[dmiller]

Mike, you are not my brother, because Jesus Christ is not your Lord.

Woooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! Why does this ring so true?? :unsure:

Mike - You had best take a look at who you think more highly of. Vpw, or Jesus Christ.

Raf -- good call.

David

[Mike]

VPW is dead.

Jesus Christ is ALIVE!

I do not bow to Raf as Lord; that is for SURE!