Raf, are those your relatives? As for Mike, it's time for him to take his medication for hallucination and paranoia. Anyone who by revelation says Jesus is coming back with PFAL and other Wierwillean books in his hands is not mentally sound. Where are the attendants with the strait jackets and tranqualizer darts?
Whenever someone says something like that to me it broadcasts either their own extreme lack of compassion or lack of argument. Would you taunt a person in a mental hospital similarly?
If I really were psychotic or wacko, your displayed wisdom is at the same low level as the peasants taunting the temporarily caged Frankenstein monster with sticks and fire. Think about it. I know where you live and work because you've broadcasted it on many websites.
But don't worry, you have nothing to fear from me, and I think you know that. I don't think you're that cruel towards the genuinely insane or THAT stupid about your safety. I just wanted to let you know that I know it and that it's THEREFORE open to all that the situation is a lack of argument that you suffer.
Why is it that I don't get that picture when I read in these very recent years?
Mike -- you don't get the picture, simply because you don't want to see the picture.
In case you don't remember (and I admit you have talked to a lot of folks on this site), I once offered you my e-mail, my prayers, my concerns, my hopes that you would at least LISTEN to someone else on this site, but you have steadfastly refused to consider any viewpoint other than your own.
I have not changed personality at all. I am still the same old dmiller you have talked to in the past. Perhaps your perception of me has changed??
Please remember that we are gonna disagree. Your definition of *god-breathed* is gonna differ from mine, I am going to cite the bible, while you cite vpw. While you cite a valid point or two, I've yet to hear you admit that I (or anyone else) has a valid point against what you have to say.
You are steeped in elete-ism (sp?), plain and simple. For what it is worth, I used to be the same way --- but I found the words of others to be an enlightening source of consideration, if nothing else.
Seems to me you are rejecting even that. Grow up, and listen to others, while you can -- and if you will (but I think this is falling on deaf ears).
If I really were psychotic or wacko, your displayed wisdom is at the same low level as the peasants taunting the temporarily caged Frankenstein monster with sticks and fire.
Actually we were thinking along the lines of the golem with his preciouuusssss. (Scrounging around for that Smikeol pic again)
Think about it. I know where you live and work because you've broadcasted it on many websites.
But don't worry, you have nothing to fear from me, and I think you know that. I don't think you're that cruel towards the genuinely insane or THAT stupid about your safety.
Somehow Mike, if I were in Thomas' place, I wouldn't feel that sure and secure. But hey, that's me. I mean, you _did_ kinda go off the emotional diving board several posts back from your usual jovial self. (And what was it with the red font that you aimed in my direction a post or so back, hmmm? Was that a warning of some kind? :o ... ;))
And face it Mike, you weren't 'dragged' into any of the threads here. You (as usual) just jump right in and go to town, so your supposed appearance of 'reluctance' just doesn't wash.
I'm contemplating investing the time for some proofs to what is on the table. Some of it I did long ago and submitted to JAL as I posted.
You see I have to weigh the profit of doing so with the precious time it will take to do it right. I have three separate research projects going at once: following what we're doing in my fellowship, playing catch-up on what I blew it on personally the first time through, and outreach. In the outreach category I am dealing with more than just GreaseSpot people, and most GSC people by now have dug into their positions.
Another factor I have to weigh is that people appreciate things much more if they do the work themselves. For me to spoon feed these proofs may not only waste my time, but cut short the blessings you'd get if you decided to leave no stone unturned and you searched yourself. Ditto for readers of this thread.
***
Actually,
he's been claiming the existence of this mysterious "evidence" since 2003.
He has time to spend page after page claiming it exists,
but he still hasn't had time to post it.
Myself, I recommended scaling back posting time and just posting when he can
provide this mysterious "evidence"-
going for QUALITY rather than QUANTITY-
but so far Mike hasn't followed my advice, at least to the degree of
posting this "evidence."
So,
we have about as much proof of this "evidence" so far as we do of the Loch Ness Monster.
Furthermore,
Mike keeps claiming that assigning homework is an effective tool around here.
I keep telling him why it backfires so badly, but he keeps insisting it works.
I don't expect him to change his position on this anytime in 2005 (or 2006).
Mike's characterized something as "spoon-feeding".
Everyone else would call it
"presenting your case"
or
"defending your thesis"
or
"presenting your evidence".
But to Mike, backing up his claims is some sort of distasteful task.
Perhaps this is because it's something like the Emperor's tailors
presenting their new Fall Fashion Line.
Perhaps not-but we can't tell because he never presents it.
Well I don't have the ORANGE book, nor do I know anyone who does, nor Am I going to go buy a copy on Ebay.
FOr those of us who are thius deprived
Chapter and verse please
And please don't tell me you don't have the time--you could have posted the requested Quotes 10 times over in the amount of time you have been beating around the bush
"Although the target of this blogger’s piece is Joel Osteen, the fellow points to what would remain a central problem with Wierwille’s “Law of Believing,” even after one prunes away Wierwille’s suggestions that there is some impersonal metaphysical “law” that “works for saint and sinner alike” bringing events to pass independently of God’s providential oversight:
I'm weary with those who do not want to know the facts. It's worse than that, I'm weary with those who WANT to not know the facts NOR the truths about and in PFAL. Nor can I any longer see any possible profit in wasting my time addressing willing mis-representers.
Because the following was already typed in some PMs I'm going to do some quick pasting here, and invite any who want to get the story accurate to PM me.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Hi xxxxx,
Here is the beginning of the evidence. Below is page 11, the first page of the second chapter in the Orange Book with my commentary afterwards.
*******
Chapter Two
Availability, Receivability, Usability
In order to tap the resources of the power of God,
one must know first of all what is and what is not
available from God. There are some things that are
not available today; and if they are not available, we
can pray until we are exhausted and we still will not
receive an answer to our prayers. If we want to effectively
tap the resources for the more abundant life, we
must find out what is available to us, what God has
promised us. In the secular world we constantly apply
this principle. Take, for instance, this book which
you are reading. Could you have gotten it if it were
not available? Certainly not. Spiritually the same is
true. We must find out from God's Word what is
available.
As an example of availability, III John 2 tells us
what God desires for us.
*******
Now let's go through it sentence by sentence.
"In order to tap the resources of the power of God, one must know first of all what is and what is not available from God."
Here, in this first sentence, the power behind the law is attributed to God: ...the power OF God... and ...available FROM God...
Here, in this first sentence, the operation of the law is limited to what is available.
These are the two tid-bits dmiller said Dr NEVER taught on: that the law only works for what is available (God's promises) and God is the power behind it.
***
"There are some things that are not available today; and if they are not available, we can pray until we are exhausted and we still will not receive an answer to our prayers."
This refutes the impression dmiller said that he got from reading PFAL, that we can manipulate God.
It also established the law being limited to what is available, not just any old thing we want to believe for.
***
"If we want to effectively tap the resources for the more abundant life, we must find out what is available to us, what God has promised us."
Again, we are the limited ones, it works only for what is promised and on the "available list," and God is the one who is behind it. Here also I see more where I got my faucet analogy from: "tap the resources."
***
"In the secular world we constantly apply this principle. Take, for instance, this book which you are reading. Could you have gotten it if it were not available? Certainly not."
The law and the principles even work in the secular world, but the REALLY work in the spiritual. This is what I was talking about earlier in the thread about the anomalies spotted in the law. It doesn't seem to work as powerfully there with the competing forces.
Here also is a subtle hint from Dr that the Orange Book is from God and not from Dr.
In the film class he uses a pen in this example, holding it in his hand as if writing with it, while here he uses the word "book."
What book? It's in the text: "...this book..."
He doesn't write "...a book..."
He doesn't write "...some book..."
He writes "...THIS book..." !!!
He's saying, in a most profoundly subtle way that this Orange Book was made available from God. Dr technically "penned" it, but God made it available.
I agree it looks so subtle that I could have read all this portion into it and the subtle message is mine alone and not Dr's. I wondered that too at first, until I saw about hundred more spots like this that lined up the same way. We weren't able to accept this years ago, so God had Dr put it into the record in ways we wouldn't see it nor object to it back then. As a result we unknowingly helped him distribute the books around the globe.
***
"Spiritually the same is true."
Two realms in which the law can be applied. The spiritual is dominant.
***
"We must find out from God's Word what is available. As an example of availability, III John 2 tells us what God desires for us."
We are the limited ones, and we don't manipulate God. We must find out FROM GOD'S WORD what is available. The promises in God's Word make up the available list.
*******
So, that's just one page of the orange book, and it looks pretty proved already. There's TONS more. This is a spiritual drama we're in.
There are HUGE forces at work to hide this stuff, just like Dr's last teaching was lost. Do you know about that one? I'm not talking about "The Hope" but the one he did two weeks later and was lost by and/or on all top leadership, that's ALL top leadership.
I'm very upset with the whole collection of posters at this time, and for many reasons. I feel very much like ending all my posting, as I pointed out to you yesterday by PM that we are not to cast our pearls before swine. When Jesus was before Pilate he refused to defend himself.
This thread is more of a battle of egos than a fight for truth, and I don't need to win a trivial ego pi$$ing contest. I know that many don't have the books to check out the evidence I say is in there. There is a CD with all of Dr's books on it that many posters have. I've seen them offer it to others at times, but not now because I am involved. What is going on there is more about me than anything else. I refuse to post the full proofs. I'd prefer that you do not post this information. I want to work only with you on it, and I'd prefer you only work with me on it. The other posters are good at manipulating opinion of the uninformed. You have forgotten much, or it slipped by you unawares way back then. You are very uninformed.
There are many posters with the Orange Book, yet none are posting what's in there. If they had any desire for truth SOMEONE would open it up and immediately see the evidence. That tells me it's too late for me to help them.
Agape,
Mike
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Hi xxxxx,
I'm very thankful to be able to talk to this way. I just can't stand facing ten jeering posters at once any more. Please allow me to get tough with the subject matter, while I value your heart to deal with this communication and me. If we could talk by phone someday this process will be much easier. I have an unlimited long distance phone plan. When I get tough in typing through the logic you can't as easily hear my heart, which is soft toward you. It took me a while to see that you were softer than your typing, too.
So, from my last letter and that page from the Orange Book, do you at least see what I'm talking about...? that MUCH was forgotten from the books? Dmiller's posts were the epitome of ignorance, and they totally stunned me. I thought he was above that. I showed you only one page, and it contradicted all three of his points. There are much more than ten places I could have found, and that one page was just the beginning. Those points are repeated and expanded upon elsewhere many times.
***
The crux of the matter is what IS NOT in our memory but that IS in the books. We'll get to what's not on that list soon, but remember that Dr wrote we can pray until we're exhausted, and if it's not on that available list, it's no deal.
***
Many posters like you think that ANYTHING was on the available list, and then one need only get needs and wants parallel and then crank on the "law of believing."
No, that's not what is in the books at all. In the first session we were taught (and in the book) that there were FIVE things we have to know to receive ANYTHING from God.
Please don't feel insulted, but you are operating (just like dmiller and most of the others) from the TVTs (Twi Verbal Traditions) and not from the books. You all just don't know what's in there. I too was in ignorance until I got the books opened again. It will be a wonderful surprise when you see it, if you want to see it. The TVTs said "anything," but the books said only the available list, the promises of God.
The ANYTHING you are referring to (I think) is that this process works for anything, and that it's not a weak process but a powerful one. However the process must start with the available list, and we we can NOT put anything on the available list. Only God puts things on the available list via His promises.
***
If any one of the five steps aren't in place the process fails.
PLEASE don't be insulted. We all forgot a lot, or never got a lot right the first time. ME TOO. You have it all scrambled up.
Here are the five steps briefly. We must know: (1)what is available (2)how to receive it(believe) (3) what to do with it after we got it (4)needs and wants balanced (parallel was also used) (5) God's willingness equals His ability.
When all five are right, THEN (and only then) it works for ANYTHING. The available list comes first, the anything comes second. That's what Dr wrote.
***
Some think that we can fudge the process by saying of any old desire we have that it's a need.
Like I said, the thinking of most is scrambled, first of all. Second, we can't fool God about what genuine needs are. The scrambled version came from the TVTs, not the books.
I could cry for how scrambled so many got it. Only by opening the books can we see what Dr really taught us. I wish you would take me up on the offer. I wish dmiller would open his books. This is a crazy, crazy drama. I weep daily for my family. It's in such ruins. It's so simple to set it straight by opening the books, but no one wants to DO it. How about you? Do you want to talk more.
Agape,
Mike
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Hi xxxx,
There is often a problem with some that think the available list is never defined. But Dr teaches clearly that it is the same thing as the promises of God. God defines that list by what he promises. By further reading you'll see that Dr told us to go to the Word and find that promise of God that fits your need.
Yes, there were abuses due to the failure of many, especially leadership to get these things accurate. The abuses came from the weakness of the flesh, not the weakness of the list of God's promises. People didn't go to the Word, but they DID go to the TVTs and things got scrambled."
There were many wrongs, and not just in the topic of believing. All the wrongs were in the practices, but not in the writings. You could say the same of David and Solomon, that they did tremendously wrong things, but Jesus recognized that the revelation God gave to those flawed men was bigger than the men, so Jesus respected their writings.
***
VPW certainly blew it in SOME places and at SOME times, and he admitted it. Where he got it totally right, along with his team of editors and other contributors that others say he stole from, is what ended up in print.
Where WE ALL got it totally wrong was the low priority we put on seeing exactly what was written. If we had paid better attention to the writings, instead of the man (and others), then we wouldn't have been duped by his (and others) weak moments.
The writings are bigger than the man. VPW is not the REAL author. The only way to see this is to see what is written.
Agape,
Mike
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Hi xxxxx,
Oky doky. I can do all sorts of debating and proving when it comes to what is actually written in Dr's books, all the way to the point of forcing my points with great strength when I take the time, but I can do absolutely nothing at all to force anyone's desires. Neither can God, as He set it up that way with free will.
I'll back off completely and respect your desires and will to walk away from PFAL and towards something else.
Without going to all the passages on believing, I think I did show you, and just from one page, that three of dmiller's bold faced points were totally wrong. I could have spent the time to gather together many more passages to prove those three points over and over, but I kind of knew it would be a waste of time. I sensed some of your desires from your posts and earlier PMs.
The three points negating dmiller in my one page proof were: (1)that Dr taught believing was NOT the power of OUR mind, but of God's mind and that He supplied all the power and workings behind the scenes. (2) We cannot manipulate God into doing anything, only play by His rules. (3) The only things that the law of believing REALLY works for are things God has placed on the available list. The probabilities may be still high for other things, but not sure. Everyone knows that a positive attitude will AT LEAST increase the odds of success at anything, for anybody.
Please keep this in mind as other posters misrepresent Dr over and over on may points. What's in the books is totally different than what's in their heads and what they THINK is in the books.
You might also keep in mind that these three points will work for you in the path you have chosen to walk, even though it's outside PFAL. Not only that, but there are many other points in YOUR memory that are from the corrupted TVTs and not from PFAL, even though you THINK Dr taught them that TVT way. Those points could get adjusted if you would like to someday re-connect with me or with the PFAL writings.
Please, though, if you have the opportunity, if you think it will help other posters think more accurately about what they went through with TWI, please quietly and privately tell whoever might benefit that they just don't know what's in those writings. Relying your own or on other poster's memory is sure to lead to error. Opening the books is absolutely necessary to discover what's REALLY in there.
(Pssst, don't insult our intelligence by claiming that the real problem is we don't know what's in those pages. I know what's in them all to well, thank you)
Does ... does ... this mean that Smikeol is just about ready to post his own "I'm leaving Greasespot for *good* 'cuz nobody wants to hear my precioussssss God Breathed PFAL any more!!" post/thread?? Huh? Huh?
:huh:
(GarthP readies his own "Don't let the door hit you on your preciousssss on your way out" post if and when that happens.)
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What The Hey
Mark 11:22,23: ------------ And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I saith unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into
What The Hey
The law of believing has nothing to do with "mind power". It doesn't have anything to do with: "believing in the promises of God and His willingness to perform them" either, although for the Christia
Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Raf, are those your relatives? As for Mike, it's time for him to take his medication for hallucination and paranoia. Anyone who by revelation says Jesus is coming back with PFAL and other Wierwillean books in his hands is not mentally sound. Where are the attendants with the strait jackets and tranqualizer darts?
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TheEvan
Gotta be family. The dude in the yellow tie, f'rinstance. Uncle, dad, older brother: take your pick.
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Mike
Thomas LB,
Whenever someone says something like that to me it broadcasts either their own extreme lack of compassion or lack of argument. Would you taunt a person in a mental hospital similarly?
If I really were psychotic or wacko, your displayed wisdom is at the same low level as the peasants taunting the temporarily caged Frankenstein monster with sticks and fire. Think about it. I know where you live and work because you've broadcasted it on many websites.
But don't worry, you have nothing to fear from me, and I think you know that. I don't think you're that cruel towards the genuinely insane or THAT stupid about your safety. I just wanted to let you know that I know it and that it's THEREFORE open to all that the situation is a lack of argument that you suffer.
Maybe you should take that class of yours again!
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dmiller
Nope -- I"m still the same old me. :)
David
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dmiller
Mike -- you don't get the picture, simply because you don't want to see the picture.
In case you don't remember (and I admit you have talked to a lot of folks on this site), I once offered you my e-mail, my prayers, my concerns, my hopes that you would at least LISTEN to someone else on this site, but you have steadfastly refused to consider any viewpoint other than your own.
I have not changed personality at all. I am still the same old dmiller you have talked to in the past. Perhaps your perception of me has changed??
Please remember that we are gonna disagree. Your definition of *god-breathed* is gonna differ from mine, I am going to cite the bible, while you cite vpw. While you cite a valid point or two, I've yet to hear you admit that I (or anyone else) has a valid point against what you have to say.
You are steeped in elete-ism (sp?), plain and simple. For what it is worth, I used to be the same way --- but I found the words of others to be an enlightening source of consideration, if nothing else.
Seems to me you are rejecting even that. Grow up, and listen to others, while you can -- and if you will (but I think this is falling on deaf ears).
David
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GarthP2000
Somehow Mike, if I were in Thomas' place, I wouldn't feel that sure and secure. But hey, that's me. I mean, you _did_ kinda go off the emotional diving board several posts back from your usual jovial self. (And what was it with the red font that you aimed in my direction a post or so back, hmmm? Was that a warning of some kind? :o ... ;))
And face it Mike, you weren't 'dragged' into any of the threads here. You (as usual) just jump right in and go to town, so your supposed appearance of 'reluctance' just doesn't wash.
Dave, I believe its spelled 'elitism'. :)
Enjoy!
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dmiller
:) :) :)
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Jbarrax
PLEASE don't. :mellow:
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Mike
No garth and Thomas,
It wasn't a warning.
Thomas used a gross rhetorical move and I called him on it . Plain and simple.
Garth you are trying to stir something up.
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WordWolf
Actually,
he's been claiming the existence of this mysterious "evidence" since 2003.
He has time to spend page after page claiming it exists,
but he still hasn't had time to post it.
Myself, I recommended scaling back posting time and just posting when he can
provide this mysterious "evidence"-
going for QUALITY rather than QUANTITY-
but so far Mike hasn't followed my advice, at least to the degree of
posting this "evidence."
So,
we have about as much proof of this "evidence" so far as we do of the Loch Ness Monster.
Furthermore,
Mike keeps claiming that assigning homework is an effective tool around here.
I keep telling him why it backfires so badly, but he keeps insisting it works.
I don't expect him to change his position on this anytime in 2005 (or 2006).
Mike's characterized something as "spoon-feeding".
Everyone else would call it
"presenting your case"
or
"defending your thesis"
or
"presenting your evidence".
But to Mike, backing up his claims is some sort of distasteful task.
Perhaps this is because it's something like the Emperor's tailors
presenting their new Fall Fashion Line.
Perhaps not-but we can't tell because he never presents it.
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Mike
WW,
If you have the orange book you have the evidence.
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WordWolf
"WW,
If you have the orange book you have the evidence."
He said,
still not posting this nebulous evidence.
Me,
when I say the Orange Book says something,
I cite the page AND provide the quote.
Otherwise,
people would be justified in thinking I was making it up.
And bald claim must be supported with evidence.
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GarthP2000
..... And?
:D
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templelady
Well I don't have the ORANGE book, nor do I know anyone who does, nor Am I going to go buy a copy on Ebay.
FOr those of us who are thius deprived
Chapter and verse please
And please don't tell me you don't have the time--you could have posted the requested Quotes 10 times over in the amount of time you have been beating around the bush
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Mike
templelady,
Please check your PMs.
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WordWolf
He said,
STILL not posting this nebulous "evidence".
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Mike
For those who WANT to know, start with PFAL page 11, and PM me.
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GarthP2000
So apparently the first 10 pages aren't God Breathed, ehh?
What, did VPW have to have a running start to get that in tune with God first?
:lol:
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WordWolf
'Mike':
"For those who WANT to know, start with PFAL page 11, and PM me."
======
So,
this is SECRET evidence.....
Which starts on page 11 of the Orange Book.
*looks*
Oh, the 5 things we NEED to know to "receive anything from God."
This is the stuff that has NOTHING to do with Mike's thesis,
but, so long as he hides his 'evidence' from us and
never subjects his ideas to any kind of objective analysis
(meaning, never allows anyone to actually THINK
about his stuff-instead only allowing the swallowing whole of it-
"Here, eat this. No, you can't know what it is. Eat."
but NEVER allowing someone to see if his ideas have
anything to do with what's written-
he can pretend what he teaches is actually TRUE.
=======
Or,
to put it briefly,
he STILL didn't post the nebulous "evidence"
and doesn't plan to.
Next from the Emperor's Fall Fashion line,
we have this lovely ensemble by Betsey Johnson....
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WordWolf
Cynic said:
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TheEvan
Wow, the "Osteentatious" link is great!
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Mike
I'm weary with those who do not want to know the facts. It's worse than that, I'm weary with those who WANT to not know the facts NOR the truths about and in PFAL. Nor can I any longer see any possible profit in wasting my time addressing willing mis-representers.
Because the following was already typed in some PMs I'm going to do some quick pasting here, and invite any who want to get the story accurate to PM me.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Hi xxxxx,
Here is the beginning of the evidence. Below is page 11, the first page of the second chapter in the Orange Book with my commentary afterwards.
*******
Chapter Two
Availability, Receivability, Usability
In order to tap the resources of the power of God,
one must know first of all what is and what is not
available from God. There are some things that are
not available today; and if they are not available, we
can pray until we are exhausted and we still will not
receive an answer to our prayers. If we want to effectively
tap the resources for the more abundant life, we
must find out what is available to us, what God has
promised us. In the secular world we constantly apply
this principle. Take, for instance, this book which
you are reading. Could you have gotten it if it were
not available? Certainly not. Spiritually the same is
true. We must find out from God's Word what is
available.
As an example of availability, III John 2 tells us
what God desires for us.
*******
Now let's go through it sentence by sentence.
"In order to tap the resources of the power of God, one must know first of all what is and what is not available from God."
Here, in this first sentence, the power behind the law is attributed to God: ...the power OF God... and ...available FROM God...
Here, in this first sentence, the operation of the law is limited to what is available.
These are the two tid-bits dmiller said Dr NEVER taught on: that the law only works for what is available (God's promises) and God is the power behind it.
***
"There are some things that are not available today; and if they are not available, we can pray until we are exhausted and we still will not receive an answer to our prayers."
This refutes the impression dmiller said that he got from reading PFAL, that we can manipulate God.
It also established the law being limited to what is available, not just any old thing we want to believe for.
***
"If we want to effectively tap the resources for the more abundant life, we must find out what is available to us, what God has promised us."
Again, we are the limited ones, it works only for what is promised and on the "available list," and God is the one who is behind it. Here also I see more where I got my faucet analogy from: "tap the resources."
***
"In the secular world we constantly apply this principle. Take, for instance, this book which you are reading. Could you have gotten it if it were not available? Certainly not."
The law and the principles even work in the secular world, but the REALLY work in the spiritual. This is what I was talking about earlier in the thread about the anomalies spotted in the law. It doesn't seem to work as powerfully there with the competing forces.
Here also is a subtle hint from Dr that the Orange Book is from God and not from Dr.
In the film class he uses a pen in this example, holding it in his hand as if writing with it, while here he uses the word "book."
What book? It's in the text: "...this book..."
He doesn't write "...a book..."
He doesn't write "...some book..."
He writes "...THIS book..." !!!
He's saying, in a most profoundly subtle way that this Orange Book was made available from God. Dr technically "penned" it, but God made it available.
I agree it looks so subtle that I could have read all this portion into it and the subtle message is mine alone and not Dr's. I wondered that too at first, until I saw about hundred more spots like this that lined up the same way. We weren't able to accept this years ago, so God had Dr put it into the record in ways we wouldn't see it nor object to it back then. As a result we unknowingly helped him distribute the books around the globe.
***
"Spiritually the same is true."
Two realms in which the law can be applied. The spiritual is dominant.
***
"We must find out from God's Word what is available. As an example of availability, III John 2 tells us what God desires for us."
We are the limited ones, and we don't manipulate God. We must find out FROM GOD'S WORD what is available. The promises in God's Word make up the available list.
*******
So, that's just one page of the orange book, and it looks pretty proved already. There's TONS more. This is a spiritual drama we're in.
There are HUGE forces at work to hide this stuff, just like Dr's last teaching was lost. Do you know about that one? I'm not talking about "The Hope" but the one he did two weeks later and was lost by and/or on all top leadership, that's ALL top leadership.
I'm very upset with the whole collection of posters at this time, and for many reasons. I feel very much like ending all my posting, as I pointed out to you yesterday by PM that we are not to cast our pearls before swine. When Jesus was before Pilate he refused to defend himself.
This thread is more of a battle of egos than a fight for truth, and I don't need to win a trivial ego pi$$ing contest. I know that many don't have the books to check out the evidence I say is in there. There is a CD with all of Dr's books on it that many posters have. I've seen them offer it to others at times, but not now because I am involved. What is going on there is more about me than anything else. I refuse to post the full proofs. I'd prefer that you do not post this information. I want to work only with you on it, and I'd prefer you only work with me on it. The other posters are good at manipulating opinion of the uninformed. You have forgotten much, or it slipped by you unawares way back then. You are very uninformed.
There are many posters with the Orange Book, yet none are posting what's in there. If they had any desire for truth SOMEONE would open it up and immediately see the evidence. That tells me it's too late for me to help them.
Agape,
Mike
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Hi xxxxx,
I'm very thankful to be able to talk to this way. I just can't stand facing ten jeering posters at once any more. Please allow me to get tough with the subject matter, while I value your heart to deal with this communication and me. If we could talk by phone someday this process will be much easier. I have an unlimited long distance phone plan. When I get tough in typing through the logic you can't as easily hear my heart, which is soft toward you. It took me a while to see that you were softer than your typing, too.
So, from my last letter and that page from the Orange Book, do you at least see what I'm talking about...? that MUCH was forgotten from the books? Dmiller's posts were the epitome of ignorance, and they totally stunned me. I thought he was above that. I showed you only one page, and it contradicted all three of his points. There are much more than ten places I could have found, and that one page was just the beginning. Those points are repeated and expanded upon elsewhere many times.
***
The crux of the matter is what IS NOT in our memory but that IS in the books. We'll get to what's not on that list soon, but remember that Dr wrote we can pray until we're exhausted, and if it's not on that available list, it's no deal.
***
Many posters like you think that ANYTHING was on the available list, and then one need only get needs and wants parallel and then crank on the "law of believing."
No, that's not what is in the books at all. In the first session we were taught (and in the book) that there were FIVE things we have to know to receive ANYTHING from God.
Please don't feel insulted, but you are operating (just like dmiller and most of the others) from the TVTs (Twi Verbal Traditions) and not from the books. You all just don't know what's in there. I too was in ignorance until I got the books opened again. It will be a wonderful surprise when you see it, if you want to see it. The TVTs said "anything," but the books said only the available list, the promises of God.
The ANYTHING you are referring to (I think) is that this process works for anything, and that it's not a weak process but a powerful one. However the process must start with the available list, and we we can NOT put anything on the available list. Only God puts things on the available list via His promises.
***
If any one of the five steps aren't in place the process fails.
PLEASE don't be insulted. We all forgot a lot, or never got a lot right the first time. ME TOO. You have it all scrambled up.
Here are the five steps briefly. We must know: (1)what is available (2)how to receive it(believe) (3) what to do with it after we got it (4)needs and wants balanced (parallel was also used) (5) God's willingness equals His ability.
When all five are right, THEN (and only then) it works for ANYTHING. The available list comes first, the anything comes second. That's what Dr wrote.
***
Some think that we can fudge the process by saying of any old desire we have that it's a need.
Like I said, the thinking of most is scrambled, first of all. Second, we can't fool God about what genuine needs are. The scrambled version came from the TVTs, not the books.
I could cry for how scrambled so many got it. Only by opening the books can we see what Dr really taught us. I wish you would take me up on the offer. I wish dmiller would open his books. This is a crazy, crazy drama. I weep daily for my family. It's in such ruins. It's so simple to set it straight by opening the books, but no one wants to DO it. How about you? Do you want to talk more.
Agape,
Mike
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Hi xxxx,
There is often a problem with some that think the available list is never defined. But Dr teaches clearly that it is the same thing as the promises of God. God defines that list by what he promises. By further reading you'll see that Dr told us to go to the Word and find that promise of God that fits your need.
Yes, there were abuses due to the failure of many, especially leadership to get these things accurate. The abuses came from the weakness of the flesh, not the weakness of the list of God's promises. People didn't go to the Word, but they DID go to the TVTs and things got scrambled."
There were many wrongs, and not just in the topic of believing. All the wrongs were in the practices, but not in the writings. You could say the same of David and Solomon, that they did tremendously wrong things, but Jesus recognized that the revelation God gave to those flawed men was bigger than the men, so Jesus respected their writings.
***
VPW certainly blew it in SOME places and at SOME times, and he admitted it. Where he got it totally right, along with his team of editors and other contributors that others say he stole from, is what ended up in print.
Where WE ALL got it totally wrong was the low priority we put on seeing exactly what was written. If we had paid better attention to the writings, instead of the man (and others), then we wouldn't have been duped by his (and others) weak moments.
The writings are bigger than the man. VPW is not the REAL author. The only way to see this is to see what is written.
Agape,
Mike
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Hi xxxxx,
Oky doky. I can do all sorts of debating and proving when it comes to what is actually written in Dr's books, all the way to the point of forcing my points with great strength when I take the time, but I can do absolutely nothing at all to force anyone's desires. Neither can God, as He set it up that way with free will.
I'll back off completely and respect your desires and will to walk away from PFAL and towards something else.
Without going to all the passages on believing, I think I did show you, and just from one page, that three of dmiller's bold faced points were totally wrong. I could have spent the time to gather together many more passages to prove those three points over and over, but I kind of knew it would be a waste of time. I sensed some of your desires from your posts and earlier PMs.
The three points negating dmiller in my one page proof were: (1)that Dr taught believing was NOT the power of OUR mind, but of God's mind and that He supplied all the power and workings behind the scenes. (2) We cannot manipulate God into doing anything, only play by His rules. (3) The only things that the law of believing REALLY works for are things God has placed on the available list. The probabilities may be still high for other things, but not sure. Everyone knows that a positive attitude will AT LEAST increase the odds of success at anything, for anybody.
Please keep this in mind as other posters misrepresent Dr over and over on may points. What's in the books is totally different than what's in their heads and what they THINK is in the books.
You might also keep in mind that these three points will work for you in the path you have chosen to walk, even though it's outside PFAL. Not only that, but there are many other points in YOUR memory that are from the corrupted TVTs and not from PFAL, even though you THINK Dr taught them that TVT way. Those points could get adjusted if you would like to someday re-connect with me or with the PFAL writings.
Please, though, if you have the opportunity, if you think it will help other posters think more accurately about what they went through with TWI, please quietly and privately tell whoever might benefit that they just don't know what's in those writings. Relying your own or on other poster's memory is sure to lead to error. Opening the books is absolutely necessary to discover what's REALLY in there.
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TheEvan
Wow, a bit like watching a train wreck.
(Pssst, don't insult our intelligence by claiming that the real problem is we don't know what's in those pages. I know what's in them all to well, thank you)
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GarthP2000
Does ... does ... this mean that Smikeol is just about ready to post his own "I'm leaving Greasespot for *good* 'cuz nobody wants to hear my precioussssss God Breathed PFAL any more!!" post/thread?? Huh? Huh?
:huh:
(GarthP readies his own "Don't let the door hit you on your preciousssss on your way out" post if and when that happens.)
:D
Smikeol leaving Gresespot. ((snif))
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