This man told me that at one point in the middle of all this when he was home alone one night,a demon he couldn't see actually 'physically' tried to rape him,freaked him right out !!
Stranger things may have happened, but I kinda question this kind of thing too..
When I was a WOW, one guy showed up in the middle of the night. He was conviced "they" were after him..
Success seems to be not in changing the orientation( though getting a bi person to hook up with a member of the opposite sex is considered a success, too, even though they are still bi), but in the person living a celebate lifestyle.
I get what you're saying Satori, as my initial post does reflect alot of my past TWI mindset..I DO BELIEVE that God designed people in certain ways for our benefit..I don't believe that woman was designed for woman..nor man for man. Otherwise we'd see encouraging words in God's word about that being desired by God..instead we see words like "abomination" etc.
Well, "design." Interesting word. Your friend wasn't designed to be an abomination, but there she goes, abominating like a house afire. So it must be free will, over-riding that God-given autopilot that makes us heterosexual.
So yeh...guilty as charged I suppose...hers has been a miserable life (according to her words)..lack of any kind of long term relationships and much more...
I don't doubt she's miserable, or she wouldn't say so. And maybe gender confusion, if that's what it is, contributes to her unhappiness. I question whether a few bible verses qualifies you to make that diagnosis, or to attempt a "cure."
I live in the good ole US of A & can believe what I want to believe. I believe the lesbianism is detremental to her..she speaks of the time when she "fell" for the bait & tried it out & then continued in it.
Your have the right to believe in pink elephants, 2J. Is that a license to counsel? Does it make you an expert on gender identity, sexual assignments, addictions, possibly abuse?
You're over your head. If there's a TWI mindset, that's it in a nutshell - hubris. A little knowledge and big "believing" will cure anybody and anything. Life had a way of disabusing our needier "babes in the Word" of their illusions, but never us. We just blamed them (or the devil) and moved on. We never thought of the harm we might have done. God always "covered," whatever the hell that meant. It felt good to tell ourselves so, that's what mattered.
I am not to judge..but dammit, its what I think & there's a time when my eternal judge will straighten me out, if I'm wrong..in the mean time here's this gal FINALLY seeking something other than what she was caught up in. I'm sorry folks..I just see it with my way blinders on I guess, or Bible Blinders on...sorry Rascal...sorry Satori
Is it possible this woman just needs a friend? You call her a friend. Maybe you are. Would you still be her friend, this "lesbian" woman, if you didn't think you were doing "God's work?"
If she told you she "took the bait," I think she wants to please you. She wants to please you because you've been kind to her. I think your kindness has strings attached, the necessity that she conforms to your expectations, regardless of what's going on inside of her. That's the TWI mindset, and it puts you in an untenable position.
After all, if she refuses to change, she's no longer just "being herself." Once you've shown the "Way," she's rejecting God. And you will sever those strings and let her fall, because you can accept sinners who are still lost, but not those who will not repent, once "found." That's the TWI mindset.
My hope at this point is to see her reconsiled with her creator & her savior..sorry I started this thread & sorry I asked for advise..dumb me.
I don't doubt you're sorry. You're saying, as TWI would, that God cannot accept, nor therefore love, a lesbian. You're saying she has the power to deconstruct and redesign what the Creator has made in His own image, and that she is therefore obliged to save herself by creating herself back into His image, or to remain "abominable" and lost.
It's no wonder to me that Jesus, despite his great love and wisdom, responded to the Pharisees with nothing less than wrath.
The homos' I have known (and still do) pretty much all tell the same thing..often it was an older homo that seduced them, some of them even mentioned in their first sexual act being 'overcome' by some sort of 'spiritual feeling' to the point they nearly passed out.
Oh please - come into the real world Allan.
Out of the millions of homosexuals in the world (in and out of the closet) just how many do you personally know? And every single one had this experience???
Do you know how self-righteous you sound? I am glad my God is a loving, all knowing, all caring, all inclusive God of love. You religious zealots have a God who's love is always based on conditions. I wouldn't want to go to church with you either.
I have no doubt that you are sorry you started this thread....but to consider it dumb because people simply did not say what you wanted, is silly.
James, in you effort to usurp what is in reality God`s realm, God`s responsibility ...even as noble as your intentions may be....to attempt to *fix* someone...by proclaiming yourself as his representative to do so...you run the risk of possibly placing a wedge in a relationship between this gal and her creator....in so doing, possibly causing what could be irreperable harm in God`s own name, and isn`t that what twi is so damnably culpable for?...THAT is a far bigger abomination imo, than this poor little gals sexual orientation.
Love God and Love (not fix) your neighbor....THESE are the two great commandments.
P.S. In the future, rather than pray for us because you cannot appreciate the merrit of our opinions, (not that I don`t apreciate the sentiments, but gee, it sounds like you are asking God to try to *fix* us as well).... How about instead, applying those heartfelt concerns and prayers for yourself as well, in the hopes that God can continue to open the eyes of your understanding ...all of us becoming yet further enlightened?
I have no doubt that you are a very nice guy with the best of intentions....but that doesn`t garauntee you can`t be mistaken in your perception of you responsibilties...we all once were.
My two best friends in high school, one guy, and one a girl celebrated graduation by coming *out of the closet* I never had a clue that either of them were gay.
They both dated members of the opposit sex throughout their teens....they both ended up experimenting with the same sex, and decided they preferred to be gay.
There wasn`t any victimization with the girl...she had always been popular, tall, strong, very athletic, confident, and funny. I admired her greatly, even loved her dearly as my best friend...but that didn`t inspire me to become involved...(it was indicated that our friendship could be more) but it simply didn`t float my boat, we were still dear friends.
The boy, became involved with an older man, In hindsight, I can understand that. Having a drunken father and wanting to feel a fathers love and aproval... this was the closest he could come....I do know that both were very happy and comfortable with their lifestyles....at the time I was getting involved with twi....they didn`t judge me because I was turning into a religious zealot, and I knew their gayness didn`t change the friends that I had known and loved for the last four years.
After many years as a gay hair dresser, the guy ended up settling down with a woman and her daughter....go figure.
I lost track of them after becoming involved with twi...what a shame.
Homosexuality is mentioned in God's word, but if you (2 James) want, just show her the spiritual deliverance, how to get born again, what righteousness is, no condemnation, Romans 8, lots of good stuff. Being a lesbian doesn't stop people from getting born again. Let God minister to that part of her heart.
A generation ago there were probably a lot of gays who had no support system and were easily pulled into the world's condemnation of gays. An example that comes to mind is the 1977 movie "Waiting for Mr. Goodbar" / the last scene has Diane Keaton getting brutally murdered by an enraged homo, but the homo and his buddy were drunk in the scene before that and they were cursing themselves and their homosexuality.
Today there is a gay and lesbian association in every city of any size in the US. Most gays are probably proud of it. My point with all this is...if your friend has any inkling that the God of the bible condemns homosexuality, which He does, you won't see her for dust after that, so like I said, show her what you can from the word to build her up, but let God work in her heart about the gay stuff.
Geesh..some of you really do take disagreement to heart don't you !! Rascal..you're such a hypocrite..berating people for hyperventilating when they disagree with your thinking yet you do the same yourself..
Satoori..you said yourself you don't believe the Bible so it only stands to reason you would not want to believe what it says about homosexuality in Romans chapter one.
Geesh..some of you really do take disagreement to heart don't you !!
I guess that kind of TWI mindset kinda rubs us the wrong way (of course I can't speak for anyone else).
It's more than just disagreement Allan, it's the "I am the super believer who God really loves and I am going to put on my bible cape and go out and save the world from sin".
Jesus Christ already did that, and the "homo" friends you claim to know, (although I am not sure that I would want to be your friend if'n you referred to me as a homo) are included.
The twenty something lesbian couple I know quite well are both small town girls who figured out they were gay during puberty. Both went away to college where they came out, and eventually met. No victimization, they are peers.
One girl has family that loves her and lots of family contact, the other has family that disowned her when she came out her freshman year. Sometimes she wishes she never mentioned it, they would just think her girlfriend was her roomie.
Satoori..you said yourself you don't believe the Bible so it only stands to reason you would not want to believe what it says about homosexuality in Romans chapter one.
Allen, if you had to believe a verse to understand it, there'd be something wrong with you. Is there?
Whereas I understand asking for help to deal with something you may not know much about dealing with . Or asking for someone with more scriptural knowledge on a subject you feel you may need to confront.
I do not understand why you would want to slap ANY kind of label on your friend's forehead, other than FRIEND.
SO WHAT if she's a lesbian?
SO WHAT if she has health problems?
WHAT IF you started out by just being the BEST friend for her that you can be?
I have a good deal of experience dealing with PEOPLE who consider their sexual orientation to be "gay." NO. I'm NOT trying to be politically correct. I'm trying to make a point.
IF any of my friends came to me and asked me to help them draw closer to God. I would start with whatever I'M PERSONALLY learning, studying or doing in my own path of trying to get closer to God. I would simply talk to them about what's up with their life, tell them what's up in mine and you know, BE a FRIEND to them.
No agenda except friendship.
I hate labeling people. Seeing as I'm BLACK (a label one cannot escape from nearly as esily as one can "hide" who they sleep with, or better said what kind of person they might WANT to have sex with) I know intimately the STING of what it feels like to be labeled.
From what I know about the sexual habits of single people in general... WHY would we ever want to assume that a lesbian gets laid any more often that a "straight" person?
From a biblical perspective we ALL have a propensity to sin, every day. Single MEN supposedly think about sex every 10 seconds.... Well. I guess we're somehow "better" because WE think about sinning sexually with the opposite gender than someone who thinks about the same with their own gender?
Oh. I get it. To be GAY is a DOUBLE level sin, right? OR is it that "being "HOMO" somehow places a person in a perpetual state of sin, like when they're working in a bank, or watching TV.
People won't care what you know til they know that you care.
I've know gay people who only "think" they're gay. They had less sex than "anybody" like NONE. But they SAID the were Homosexual, for their own reasons.
Do you introduce her as "My lesbian friend who has health problems?" Its been a long time since anybody has introduced me as their African American friend....
Satori's message is BE her friend! In term of HER deliverance... How's this?
"A merry heart is good medicine."
Have some fricken fun with her. People can TELL if you have a hidden agenda. She either shared that with you because she's lonely or she trusts you. Whatever she showed herself friendly to you, be friendly back.
From what I know about the sexual habits of single people in general... WHY would we ever want to assume that a lesbian gets laid any more often that a "straight" person?
Most homosexuals that have been down the road a few times and found out how difficult it is and is willing to be AT ALL honest will tell you that it's not about sex anyway.
Satori & rascal...I appriciate your responses & I've printed them off & want to re-read them
Just a quick Question to all of you..how do you then "deal" with the consequences of "Sodom & Gamohrrah" as I had read a posting a few ago, that it was more about the "hospitality" issue rather than the "gay" issue.
Don't think its about my TWI "mind set" so much, Satori, but rather my "bible" mind set. Before TWI I trusted the Bible on this subject & didn't stand in LCM's rock throwing line in terms of the anti-Gay agenda he had.. I think I'm a super friend to this gal btw..as I haven't read any verses to her about the gay factor..its been mostly about who she is in Christ & no condemnation...that part of the subject she's having much difficulty with, which accoriding to many of you alot of gays do beat themselves up in.
I'm glad we;re discussing this, and retract my apology for starting this thread...things unspoken of leave us with a comfortable "head in the sand mentality"..so I'm happy this is being discussed..thank you all...wish I could make the weenie roast in Oct to meet a few of ya's..JJ Ron..why would you want pics? Seems a bit cruel..but thats my humble opinion.
Second James, regarding Sodom & Gomorrah. Their sin was in wanting "strange" flesh. For some background, read Genesis 6 - "sons of God" (i.e., fallen angels, "strange flesh") cohabitating with man - the daughters of Adam. There's mucho stuff about this, see Bullinger's appendix on this topic. I don't want to get into all of it right now. Suffice it to say, the consequences of this required a cleansing of the earth via a flood. There was also another, smaller irruption of these beings after the flood. These beings were the "gods" of old people worshipped and served.
The townspeople of Sodom & Gomorrah wanted the angels, the "strange flesh." They knew what could be done sexually with fallen angels. Except these men who arrived were not fallen angels, they were God's standing angels. But, to the town, they were strange flesh. In this light, I don't think S&G is dealing with homosexuals as we would think of it.
Also, Jesus told the disciples, if the town rejected them and didn't receive the Word, it would be worse for that town than for the inhabitants of Sodom & Gomorrah.
So, rejection of the Word, is a much bigger sin then homosexuality - right?
As I've grown older, I think, have come to believe, if you are in a loving relationship with someone, God does not make as big a deal out of it as religious people do.
Also, there are many, many Christian homosexuals. God does love them.
Just be her friend. Quit worrying about who she prefers in her bed.
Isn't it ironic that the number one sex fantasy for men is two women?
Funny how people try to 'downplay' that which is abominably wrong..Sunesis, whatever your excuses for Sodom & Gomorrah are do you want to try and explain away what it says of homosexuality in Romans chapter one..
If'n a 'mans' 'biggest' fantasy is doin' it with two women, doesn't that speak volumes of the perversion that mankinds heart leans to ??
If'n a 'mans' 'biggest' fantasy is doin' it with two women, doesn't that speak volumes of the perversion that mankinds heart leans to ??
Well yeah, if'n doin' with two women is against God's rules...then yes that stands to reason....but not everybody worships your judgemental God though....
I ain't saying anything goes here, I just don't like your attitude....
Funny how people try to 'downplay' that which is abominably wrong..Sunesis, whatever your excuses for Sodom & Gomorrah are do you want to try and explain away what it says of homosexuality in Romans chapter one..
It's a forgery by a later scribe zealous to "change" the truth of Christ into a "lie",
by altering and deflecting criticism aimed against the original legalistic apostles to a group of random, godless heathen-types.
It's ironic where these sorts of things occur.
Paul originally directed his criticism against men who had altered the truth of the gospel into a snare,-
against those who had captivated the truth in their dishonesty - to use and enslave people for their own ends.
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GarthP2000
Yeah, but will it be the kind of stuff *she* will want (or need for that matter) to hear.
:(-->
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Ham
Stranger things may have happened, but I kinda question this kind of thing too..
When I was a WOW, one guy showed up in the middle of the night. He was conviced "they" were after him..
his eyes were very, very dialated..
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Bramble
There are alot of articles at Religious Tolerance .org that deal with reparative thereapy ( to change a homosexual into a hetero sexual)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_exst.htm
Success seems to be not in changing the orientation( though getting a bi person to hook up with a member of the opposite sex is considered a success, too, even though they are still bi), but in the person living a celebate lifestyle.
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satori001
Originally posted by Second James:
I get what you're saying Satori, as my initial post does reflect alot of my past TWI mindset..I DO BELIEVE that God designed people in certain ways for our benefit..I don't believe that woman was designed for woman..nor man for man. Otherwise we'd see encouraging words in God's word about that being desired by God..instead we see words like "abomination" etc.
Well, "design." Interesting word. Your friend wasn't designed to be an abomination, but there she goes, abominating like a house afire. So it must be free will, over-riding that God-given autopilot that makes us heterosexual.
So yeh...guilty as charged I suppose...hers has been a miserable life (according to her words)..lack of any kind of long term relationships and much more...
I don't doubt she's miserable, or she wouldn't say so. And maybe gender confusion, if that's what it is, contributes to her unhappiness. I question whether a few bible verses qualifies you to make that diagnosis, or to attempt a "cure."
I live in the good ole US of A & can believe what I want to believe. I believe the lesbianism is detremental to her..she speaks of the time when she "fell" for the bait & tried it out & then continued in it.
Your have the right to believe in pink elephants, 2J. Is that a license to counsel? Does it make you an expert on gender identity, sexual assignments, addictions, possibly abuse?
You're over your head. If there's a TWI mindset, that's it in a nutshell - hubris. A little knowledge and big "believing" will cure anybody and anything. Life had a way of disabusing our needier "babes in the Word" of their illusions, but never us. We just blamed them (or the devil) and moved on. We never thought of the harm we might have done. God always "covered," whatever the hell that meant. It felt good to tell ourselves so, that's what mattered.
I am not to judge..but dammit, its what I think & there's a time when my eternal judge will straighten me out, if I'm wrong..in the mean time here's this gal FINALLY seeking something other than what she was caught up in. I'm sorry folks..I just see it with my way blinders on I guess, or Bible Blinders on...sorry Rascal...sorry Satori
Is it possible this woman just needs a friend? You call her a friend. Maybe you are. Would you still be her friend, this "lesbian" woman, if you didn't think you were doing "God's work?"
If she told you she "took the bait," I think she wants to please you. She wants to please you because you've been kind to her. I think your kindness has strings attached, the necessity that she conforms to your expectations, regardless of what's going on inside of her. That's the TWI mindset, and it puts you in an untenable position.
After all, if she refuses to change, she's no longer just "being herself." Once you've shown the "Way," she's rejecting God. And you will sever those strings and let her fall, because you can accept sinners who are still lost, but not those who will not repent, once "found." That's the TWI mindset.
My hope at this point is to see her reconsiled with her creator & her savior..sorry I started this thread & sorry I asked for advise..dumb me.
I don't doubt you're sorry. You're saying, as TWI would, that God cannot accept, nor therefore love, a lesbian. You're saying she has the power to deconstruct and redesign what the Creator has made in His own image, and that she is therefore obliged to save herself by creating herself back into His image, or to remain "abominable" and lost.
It's no wonder to me that Jesus, despite his great love and wisdom, responded to the Pharisees with nothing less than wrath.
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Allan
No..Jesus responded that way because the Pharisees didn't want to change their thinking.
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outofdafog
Oh please - come into the real world Allan.
Out of the millions of homosexuals in the world (in and out of the closet) just how many do you personally know? And every single one had this experience???
Do you know how self-righteous you sound? I am glad my God is a loving, all knowing, all caring, all inclusive God of love. You religious zealots have a God who's love is always based on conditions. I wouldn't want to go to church with you either.
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rascal
I have no doubt that you are sorry you started this thread....but to consider it dumb because people simply did not say what you wanted, is silly.
James, in you effort to usurp what is in reality God`s realm, God`s responsibility ...even as noble as your intentions may be....to attempt to *fix* someone...by proclaiming yourself as his representative to do so...you run the risk of possibly placing a wedge in a relationship between this gal and her creator....in so doing, possibly causing what could be irreperable harm in God`s own name, and isn`t that what twi is so damnably culpable for?...THAT is a far bigger abomination imo, than this poor little gals sexual orientation.
Love God and Love (not fix) your neighbor....THESE are the two great commandments.
P.S. In the future, rather than pray for us because you cannot appreciate the merrit of our opinions, (not that I don`t apreciate the sentiments, but gee, it sounds like you are asking God to try to *fix* us as well).... How about instead, applying those heartfelt concerns and prayers for yourself as well, in the hopes that God can continue to open the eyes of your understanding ...all of us becoming yet further enlightened?
I have no doubt that you are a very nice guy with the best of intentions....but that doesn`t garauntee you can`t be mistaken in your perception of you responsibilties...we all once were.
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rascal
Allan, that was not the case with my friends.
My two best friends in high school, one guy, and one a girl celebrated graduation by coming *out of the closet* I never had a clue that either of them were gay.
They both dated members of the opposit sex throughout their teens....they both ended up experimenting with the same sex, and decided they preferred to be gay.
There wasn`t any victimization with the girl...she had always been popular, tall, strong, very athletic, confident, and funny. I admired her greatly, even loved her dearly as my best friend...but that didn`t inspire me to become involved...(it was indicated that our friendship could be more) but it simply didn`t float my boat, we were still dear friends.
The boy, became involved with an older man, In hindsight, I can understand that. Having a drunken father and wanting to feel a fathers love and aproval... this was the closest he could come....I do know that both were very happy and comfortable with their lifestyles....at the time I was getting involved with twi....they didn`t judge me because I was turning into a religious zealot, and I knew their gayness didn`t change the friends that I had known and loved for the last four years.
After many years as a gay hair dresser, the guy ended up settling down with a woman and her daughter....go figure.
I lost track of them after becoming involved with twi...what a shame.
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johniam
Homosexuality is mentioned in God's word, but if you (2 James) want, just show her the spiritual deliverance, how to get born again, what righteousness is, no condemnation, Romans 8, lots of good stuff. Being a lesbian doesn't stop people from getting born again. Let God minister to that part of her heart.
A generation ago there were probably a lot of gays who had no support system and were easily pulled into the world's condemnation of gays. An example that comes to mind is the 1977 movie "Waiting for Mr. Goodbar" / the last scene has Diane Keaton getting brutally murdered by an enraged homo, but the homo and his buddy were drunk in the scene before that and they were cursing themselves and their homosexuality.
Today there is a gay and lesbian association in every city of any size in the US. Most gays are probably proud of it. My point with all this is...if your friend has any inkling that the God of the bible condemns homosexuality, which He does, you won't see her for dust after that, so like I said, show her what you can from the word to build her up, but let God work in her heart about the gay stuff.
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satori001
You say it's because they wouldn't change their minds?
I guess it depends on how you understand the term "hard-hearted."
Hey, speaking of the TWI mentality, thanks for the example, Allen.
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Allan
Geesh..some of you really do take disagreement to heart don't you !! Rascal..you're such a hypocrite..berating people for hyperventilating when they disagree with your thinking yet you do the same yourself..
Satoori..you said yourself you don't believe the Bible so it only stands to reason you would not want to believe what it says about homosexuality in Romans chapter one.
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outofdafog
I guess that kind of TWI mindset kinda rubs us the wrong way (of course I can't speak for anyone else).
It's more than just disagreement Allan, it's the "I am the super believer who God really loves and I am going to put on my bible cape and go out and save the world from sin".
Jesus Christ already did that, and the "homo" friends you claim to know, (although I am not sure that I would want to be your friend if'n you referred to me as a homo) are included.
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rascal
Don`t be silly allan, I wasn`t hyperventilating OR berating ....I wasn`t even mildly irritated :-)
Actually, what is occuring here is called a DISCUSSION!!
A civil exchange of ideas between reasonable people...what a novel idea!
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Bramble
The twenty something lesbian couple I know quite well are both small town girls who figured out they were gay during puberty. Both went away to college where they came out, and eventually met. No victimization, they are peers.
One girl has family that loves her and lots of family contact, the other has family that disowned her when she came out her freshman year. Sometimes she wishes she never mentioned it, they would just think her girlfriend was her roomie.
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Ron G.
In spite of the fact that this subject has been beaten to death time and time again, this sure is a popular thread considering it has no pictures.
Can we get pictures?
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satori001
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HCW
Whereas I understand asking for help to deal with something you may not know much about dealing with . Or asking for someone with more scriptural knowledge on a subject you feel you may need to confront.
I do not understand why you would want to slap ANY kind of label on your friend's forehead, other than FRIEND.
SO WHAT if she's a lesbian?
SO WHAT if she has health problems?
WHAT IF you started out by just being the BEST friend for her that you can be?
I have a good deal of experience dealing with PEOPLE who consider their sexual orientation to be "gay." NO. I'm NOT trying to be politically correct. I'm trying to make a point.
IF any of my friends came to me and asked me to help them draw closer to God. I would start with whatever I'M PERSONALLY learning, studying or doing in my own path of trying to get closer to God. I would simply talk to them about what's up with their life, tell them what's up in mine and you know, BE a FRIEND to them.
No agenda except friendship.
I hate labeling people. Seeing as I'm BLACK (a label one cannot escape from nearly as esily as one can "hide" who they sleep with, or better said what kind of person they might WANT to have sex with) I know intimately the STING of what it feels like to be labeled.
From what I know about the sexual habits of single people in general... WHY would we ever want to assume that a lesbian gets laid any more often that a "straight" person?
From a biblical perspective we ALL have a propensity to sin, every day. Single MEN supposedly think about sex every 10 seconds.... Well. I guess we're somehow "better" because WE think about sinning sexually with the opposite gender than someone who thinks about the same with their own gender?
Oh. I get it. To be GAY is a DOUBLE level sin, right? OR is it that "being "HOMO" somehow places a person in a perpetual state of sin, like when they're working in a bank, or watching TV.
People won't care what you know til they know that you care.
I've know gay people who only "think" they're gay. They had less sex than "anybody" like NONE. But they SAID the were Homosexual, for their own reasons.
Do you introduce her as "My lesbian friend who has health problems?" Its been a long time since anybody has introduced me as their African American friend....
Satori's message is BE her friend! In term of HER deliverance... How's this?
"A merry heart is good medicine."
Have some fricken fun with her. People can TELL if you have a hidden agenda. She either shared that with you because she's lonely or she trusts you. Whatever she showed herself friendly to you, be friendly back.
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HCW
I'm mildly irritated too.
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Shellon
Most homosexuals that have been down the road a few times and found out how difficult it is and is willing to be AT ALL honest will tell you that it's not about sex anyway.
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Second James
Satori & rascal...I appriciate your responses & I've printed them off & want to re-read them
Just a quick Question to all of you..how do you then "deal" with the consequences of "Sodom & Gamohrrah" as I had read a posting a few ago, that it was more about the "hospitality" issue rather than the "gay" issue.
Don't think its about my TWI "mind set" so much, Satori, but rather my "bible" mind set. Before TWI I trusted the Bible on this subject & didn't stand in LCM's rock throwing line in terms of the anti-Gay agenda he had.. I think I'm a super friend to this gal btw..as I haven't read any verses to her about the gay factor..its been mostly about who she is in Christ & no condemnation...that part of the subject she's having much difficulty with, which accoriding to many of you alot of gays do beat themselves up in.
I'm glad we;re discussing this, and retract my apology for starting this thread...things unspoken of leave us with a comfortable "head in the sand mentality"..so I'm happy this is being discussed..thank you all...wish I could make the weenie roast in Oct to meet a few of ya's..JJ Ron..why would you want pics? Seems a bit cruel..but thats my humble opinion.
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Sunesis
Second James, regarding Sodom & Gomorrah. Their sin was in wanting "strange" flesh. For some background, read Genesis 6 - "sons of God" (i.e., fallen angels, "strange flesh") cohabitating with man - the daughters of Adam. There's mucho stuff about this, see Bullinger's appendix on this topic. I don't want to get into all of it right now. Suffice it to say, the consequences of this required a cleansing of the earth via a flood. There was also another, smaller irruption of these beings after the flood. These beings were the "gods" of old people worshipped and served.
The townspeople of Sodom & Gomorrah wanted the angels, the "strange flesh." They knew what could be done sexually with fallen angels. Except these men who arrived were not fallen angels, they were God's standing angels. But, to the town, they were strange flesh. In this light, I don't think S&G is dealing with homosexuals as we would think of it.
Also, Jesus told the disciples, if the town rejected them and didn't receive the Word, it would be worse for that town than for the inhabitants of Sodom & Gomorrah.
So, rejection of the Word, is a much bigger sin then homosexuality - right?
As I've grown older, I think, have come to believe, if you are in a loving relationship with someone, God does not make as big a deal out of it as religious people do.
Also, there are many, many Christian homosexuals. God does love them.
Just be her friend. Quit worrying about who she prefers in her bed.
Isn't it ironic that the number one sex fantasy for men is two women?
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Allan
Funny how people try to 'downplay' that which is abominably wrong..Sunesis, whatever your excuses for Sodom & Gomorrah are do you want to try and explain away what it says of homosexuality in Romans chapter one..
If'n a 'mans' 'biggest' fantasy is doin' it with two women, doesn't that speak volumes of the perversion that mankinds heart leans to ??
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outofdafog
Well yeah, if'n doin' with two women is against God's rules...then yes that stands to reason....but not everybody worships your judgemental God though....
I ain't saying anything goes here, I just don't like your attitude....
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TheInvisibleDan
It's a forgery by a later scribe zealous to "change" the truth of Christ into a "lie",
by altering and deflecting criticism aimed against the original legalistic apostles to a group of random, godless heathen-types.
It's ironic where these sorts of things occur.
Paul originally directed his criticism against men who had altered the truth of the gospel into a snare,-
against those who had captivated the truth in their dishonesty - to use and enslave people for their own ends.
Danny
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