Bramble...like I said..she's a very fine person IMHO..very enthusiastic & sure of herself...seeking is the word for her at this point, for an early 30's gal. I know she lives in "guilt" of sorts (not from me, but from friends & parents) & her search has taken her into Native Indian philosophy..of sorts..
Jonny... Yeh...I enjoy just us reading the word together & her questions having never "churched it"...guess my original post was on the confusing side, as her major need at this point is physical health. For her good looks..she's had major difficulty maintaining any kind of even short term relationship, so thats played heavily on her mind & heart...I'm not entirely at a loss in helping her & had heard of an organization a few months ago that really helps lesbians..but don't think I had read about it here.
For you others with your chicken sacrafices...you've totaly misread my intent, but of course you can probably discern the intent of my heart "just like God"..hey good for you all! Your words have been noted & prayed over!!
James, I'm really not making light of YOUR particular situation, or hers. I may not completely agree with him all the time, but I really like Satori's way with words. :)-->
Honestly though, he makes a lot more sense than most of the religious mumbo jumbo I've been exposed to.
Probably the only time I will agree with Momonlady but yes..it is a 'wicked' sin to homosexualise.Thank God the 'spirit' cannot sin but the body can certainly pay the price for this abomination.
If she wants the Word, give her the Word in a loving way and let God change her.
It's interesting to note that women find it easier to discard this perversion than men.
I can't see how being a lesbian is detrimental to a life. They can make healthy choices or unhealthy ones, just like heteros.
As far as I can see, the most detrimental part about being a lesbian is from without--the people who consider them unacceptable, a pervert and sinner who must change to be acceptable or to be worthy of love or friendship.
I know if I was a lesbian, I would be very careful about who I let in to my life.
I do beleive that homosexual and lesbian activity is a sin. I also beleive that we are all born in sin, and live in sin. We are in fact all sinners. I dont have to kill Christians, to be a sinner.
G-d's Word delivers. Nothing else really does. Study His Word, Share it, and love her. Pray for her and pray with her. If she wants to pray about her sexual tendency than fine, I would try to be a friend, I would try to be understanding and non-judgemental. When she and her Heavenly Father are ready to remove those drives from her, then it will happen.
I have known and ministered to a number of homosexuals and a couple lesbians, I have also served killers and rapists. No doubt had I spent more of my adult life in the presence of females, I would have known more lesbians.
I also am one who beleives that I am a lesbian trapped within a man's body. I feel a strong drive toward them: short / tall, red / blonde / brunette, skinny / plump, young / old, ...
“I am a lesbian trapped in a man’s body.†So you think of yourself as a homosexual female? And you think that such a female acting on her sexual desires with a woman is sin? And you act on your sexual desires with your wife? Then you are terribly confused about your gender, you sin every time you engage in sexual activity with your wife, and you entice her to sin through sexual activity with another woman (you). Unless she thinks of herself as a homosexual man trapped in a woman’s body. Then, maybe both of you are okay, except for your gender confusion, because in your minds, she is a man and you are a woman. How ridiculous! And how clearly it shows your demeaning attitude toward lesbians, even though you’re trying to cover it up.
Then there are the posts that implicitly compare homosexuality to murder and rape.
Sure must feel good to be so "loving" and "accepting."
In TWI 2 homosexuality was the worst sin that could be committed. The scum of the earth. All other sin somehow came from homosexuality. There was not one good or wholesome thing about a homosexual, it colored every aspect of their lives, they were filth, fit to die.
Wicked??? Give me a break! It's almost like you are putting lables on certain sins. You sound like those people in Colorado City. Wicked is one of the catch words in their cult.....geez. Sin is sin. I wouldn't say someone is wicked because they practice homosexuality. Especially since we don't know what's in a person's heart.
I say blessed are those of the "middle ages" (with all its challenging stumblingblocks of pms and the like) who are "getting any" at all from either gender....lucky them! How I envy you, as I inhabit a state I never personally chose...celibacy (lol) - though I sincerely hope its temporary.
At times this "normal heterosexual" stuff isn't all that it's cracked up to be either (lol).
Howdy..I'm presently in the middle of attempting to teach a lesbian friend of mine a bit of Gods Word.
I am learning alot about this persons past, just from her willingness to share her heart...guess what I'm asking about is, not necessarily whether or not they are "born" that way, but rather whether any of you have ever discovered any lesbians who have changed over to being straight...or whether there are organizations that can help a lesbian to find "deliverance"..
she is "seeking God" (in her own words, and I have very little knowlege on the subject.
From your next posts, which I find wholly inconsistent with the first:
quote:
The deliverance I was referring to when I first posted was in reference to two health issues she has...
She IS a very fine person IMHO, & yet I see her physical ailments that are of great concern to her & was wondering if the two are linked or what.
quote:
"...guess my original post was on the confusing side, as her major need at this point is physical health.
Yes, I am confused 2J. This woman has "physical ailments" and all you seem to be focused on is her sexuality. What's up with that, doc? And you go so far as to say that your first post refers to her "ailments" whatever they are, when it plainly doesn't.
I do not think you are a bad person, 2J, nor are you unintelligent, however your stated best intentions seem inconsistent, if not antithetical, to agape love as I have come to understand it, and your stated objective is inconsistent from one post to the next.
You don't want to heal her, you want to "fix" her. That is what I think.
It doesn`t sound like you really wanted to hear what anyone else thought... just wanted someone to simply agree with you James.
As far as groups that could help...Twi had many claim to be *delivered* from homosexuality and lesbianism....thing is most (all that I knew) returned to this lifestyle after a while...
Most folks, it would seem, just learned to hide it well (even from themselves) ...so even groups that claim to *deliver* from this ... appear to have only temporary results.
I am not at all convinced of your assertion that lesbianism = sin = physical sickness = need for deliverance.....
Aproaching it and her from that point of view would be a serious misrepresentation of God ... and could quite concievably create a HUGE stumbling block...effectively forever alienating her from the love of God.
Your responsibility is to give a fair and accurate representation of God and his love for her....the deliverance is between those two.
I do apologize one and all, if I have stepped on anyone's toes or set a stumbling block before you.
"I do beleive that homosexual and lesbian activity is a sin."
"I also beleive that we are all born in sin, and live in sin."
I do beleive that: "We are in fact all sinners"
"G-d's Word delivers. Nothing else really does. Study His Word, Share it, and love her. Pray for her and pray with her. If she wants to pray about her sexual tendency than fine, I would try to be a friend, I would try to be understanding and non-judgemental. When she and her Heavenly Father are ready to remove those drives from her, then it will happen."
"I have known and ministered to a number of homosexuals and a couple lesbians, I have also served killers and rapists. No doubt had I spent more of my adult life in the presence of females, I would have known more lesbians."
The above I do mean in all sincerity.
I am also 'drawn' towards females. I made a figurative comparison between myself and lesbians in that manner, I thought was humour, perhaps it was not appropriate. Sorry.
I say blessed are those of the "middle ages" (with all its challenging stumblingblocks of pms and the like) who are "getting any" at all from either gender....lucky them! How I envy you, as I inhabit a state I never personally chose...celibacy (lol) - though I sincerely hope its temporary.
Can I get an "AMEN!" from the mid-life singles corner? lol
I get what you're saying Satori, as my initial post does reflect alot of my past TWI mindset..I DO BELIEVE that God designed people in certain ways for our benefit..I don't believe that woman was designed for woman..nor man for man. Otherwise we'd see encouraging words in God's word about that being desired by God..instead we see words like "abomination" etc.
So yeh...guilty as charged I suppose...hers has been a miserable life (according to her words)..lack of any kind of long term relationships and much more..
I live in the good ole US of A & can believe what I want to believe. I believe the lesbianism is detremental to her..she speaks of the time when she "fell" for the bait & tried it out & then continued in it.
I am not to judge..but dammit, its what I think & there's a time when my eternal judge will straighten me out, if I'm wrong..in the mean time here's this gal FINALLY seeking something other than what she was caught up in. I'm sorry folks..I just see it with my way blinders on I guess, or Bible Blinders on...sorry Rascal...sorry Satori
My hope at this point is to see her reconsiled with her creator & her savior..sorry I started this thread & sorry I asked for advise..dumb me.
I knew two homosexual men during my Way years. One never did get delivered, but he pretended. He had a fantasy that if he only met the perfect woman, he would get delivered...it never happened. He left during the early nineties and lives a gay life style now.
The other got delivered and married a good friend of mine. She was tall, broad shouldered, slim hipped, small chest--what you might call a boyish, athletic figure. They left TWI in 89, several years later he confessed he was never really delivered, but he had bi tendencies and he found her attractive, loved her. They are still together,have a bunch of kids, but it is not the marriage she thought she would have, nor is their sex life that great( very infrequent).
I know that it would be just about impossible for me to change my orientation and find women sexually attractive--but since I'm hetero, there is no pressure put on me too change. I can find women admirable, lovely...but that is not the same as physical attraction. No tinglies.
Nobody asked anyone to apologize, Brother Speed. My comments were aimed at Galen and coolchef, anyway. I hadn't even previously noticed your comment. Although it got more words from me, Galen's attempt at humor wasn't the main problem. It was the seemingly obigatory inclusion of murder and rape in many Christians' comments about the purported sinfulness of homosexuality.
We often weren't honest with all the stuff people would have to do to become'0kay' back in the Way witnessing days.
I know I would think twice about baring my soul and opening my life to someone who felt I was an abombination, and that I must change something few if any people seem to be able to really change,in order to please their god and to be right with them. Not a friendship I would want.
Lack of long term relationships is not necessarily a lesbian/homosexual affliction, nor can you promise her that becoming hetero will bring a long term love relationship into her life. Plenty of hetero Christians can't find or keep one, either.
I think 2 James was telling the truth about her saying how she 'took the bait'. The homos' I have known (and still do) pretty much all tell the same thing..often it was an older homo that seduced them, some of them even mentioned in their first sexual act being 'overcome' by some sort of 'spiritual feeling' to the point they nearly passed out.
When I shared with one of them about the possibility of it being a demon a light went on in their head..that particular person is still 'genuinely delivered' today.
This man told me that at one point in the middle of all this when he was home alone one night,a demon he couldn't see actually 'physically' tried to rape him,freaked him right out !!
Well, if the girl wants help, like someone mentioned, maybe you Allen, share God's Word with her, line out the details of God's opinion of it, as well as God's forgiveness. Maybe share with her the place where Jesus forgave the woman who was caught in the act of adultry, and kept the religious maniacs from stoning her, and then said, "neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more..."
This man told me that at one point in the middle of all this when he was home alone one night,a demon he couldn't see actually 'physically' tried to rape him,freaked him right out !!
I don't believe crap like this anymore. TWI was way too obsessed with devil spirits. I don't think they watch us all the time so they can try to trip us up. We can trip our own selves up easy enough because we weren't born perfect.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
26
22
17
20
Popular Days
Sep 28
27
Sep 17
27
Sep 30
20
Oct 10
18
Top Posters In This Topic
Allan 26 posts
Bramble 22 posts
Ham 17 posts
outofdafog 20 posts
Popular Days
Sep 28 2005
27 posts
Sep 17 2005
27 posts
Sep 30 2005
20 posts
Oct 10 2005
18 posts
Second James
Bramble...like I said..she's a very fine person IMHO..very enthusiastic & sure of herself...seeking is the word for her at this point, for an early 30's gal. I know she lives in "guilt" of sorts (not from me, but from friends & parents) & her search has taken her into Native Indian philosophy..of sorts..
Jonny... Yeh...I enjoy just us reading the word together & her questions having never "churched it"...guess my original post was on the confusing side, as her major need at this point is physical health. For her good looks..she's had major difficulty maintaining any kind of even short term relationship, so thats played heavily on her mind & heart...I'm not entirely at a loss in helping her & had heard of an organization a few months ago that really helps lesbians..but don't think I had read about it here.
For you others with your chicken sacrafices...you've totaly misread my intent, but of course you can probably discern the intent of my heart "just like God"..hey good for you all! Your words have been noted & prayed over!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
James, I'm really not making light of YOUR particular situation, or hers. I may not completely agree with him all the time, but I really like Satori's way with words.
:)-->
Honestly though, he makes a lot more sense than most of the religious mumbo jumbo I've been exposed to.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Allan
Probably the only time I will agree with Momonlady but yes..it is a 'wicked' sin to homosexualise.Thank God the 'spirit' cannot sin but the body can certainly pay the price for this abomination.
If she wants the Word, give her the Word in a loving way and let God change her.
It's interesting to note that women find it easier to discard this perversion than men.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
I can't see how being a lesbian is detrimental to a life. They can make healthy choices or unhealthy ones, just like heteros.
As far as I can see, the most detrimental part about being a lesbian is from without--the people who consider them unacceptable, a pervert and sinner who must change to be acceptable or to be worthy of love or friendship.
I know if I was a lesbian, I would be very careful about who I let in to my life.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
I do beleive that homosexual and lesbian activity is a sin. I also beleive that we are all born in sin, and live in sin. We are in fact all sinners. I dont have to kill Christians, to be a sinner.
G-d's Word delivers. Nothing else really does. Study His Word, Share it, and love her. Pray for her and pray with her. If she wants to pray about her sexual tendency than fine, I would try to be a friend, I would try to be understanding and non-judgemental. When she and her Heavenly Father are ready to remove those drives from her, then it will happen.
I have known and ministered to a number of homosexuals and a couple lesbians, I have also served killers and rapists. No doubt had I spent more of my adult life in the presence of females, I would have known more lesbians.
I also am one who beleives that I am a lesbian trapped within a man's body. I feel a strong drive toward them: short / tall, red / blonde / brunette, skinny / plump, young / old, ...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
we are all sinners or so we are told
so if being a homo is a sin
so what?
does that make make them worse than an other sinner
i think we need to lighten up on them
no am am not one
nor am i a murderer a rapist
a thief
the list goes on
a sin is a sin and don't think being homo is one god creates
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
Some demeaning comments here.
“I am a lesbian trapped in a man’s body.†So you think of yourself as a homosexual female? And you think that such a female acting on her sexual desires with a woman is sin? And you act on your sexual desires with your wife? Then you are terribly confused about your gender, you sin every time you engage in sexual activity with your wife, and you entice her to sin through sexual activity with another woman (you). Unless she thinks of herself as a homosexual man trapped in a woman’s body. Then, maybe both of you are okay, except for your gender confusion, because in your minds, she is a man and you are a woman. How ridiculous! And how clearly it shows your demeaning attitude toward lesbians, even though you’re trying to cover it up.
Then there are the posts that implicitly compare homosexuality to murder and rape.
Sure must feel good to be so "loving" and "accepting."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
In TWI 2 homosexuality was the worst sin that could be committed. The scum of the earth. All other sin somehow came from homosexuality. There was not one good or wholesome thing about a homosexual, it colored every aspect of their lives, they were filth, fit to die.
It just ain't so. IMO
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Second James
Longgone..I think Galen was making a joke K?..re-read his post..Love Ya!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
Wicked??? Give me a break! It's almost like you are putting lables on certain sins. You sound like those people in Colorado City. Wicked is one of the catch words in their cult.....geez. Sin is sin. I wouldn't say someone is wicked because they practice homosexuality. Especially since we don't know what's in a person's heart.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheInvisibleDan
I say blessed are those of the "middle ages" (with all its challenging stumblingblocks of pms and the like) who are "getting any" at all from either gender....lucky them! How I envy you, as I inhabit a state I never personally chose...celibacy (lol) - though I sincerely hope its temporary.
At times this "normal heterosexual" stuff isn't all that it's cracked up to be either (lol).
Danny
Link to comment
Share on other sites
satori001
2J, your first post:
From your next posts, which I find wholly inconsistent with the first: Yes, I am confused 2J. This woman has "physical ailments" and all you seem to be focused on is her sexuality. What's up with that, doc? And you go so far as to say that your first post refers to her "ailments" whatever they are, when it plainly doesn't.I do not think you are a bad person, 2J, nor are you unintelligent, however your stated best intentions seem inconsistent, if not antithetical, to agape love as I have come to understand it, and your stated objective is inconsistent from one post to the next.
You don't want to heal her, you want to "fix" her. That is what I think.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
It doesn`t sound like you really wanted to hear what anyone else thought... just wanted someone to simply agree with you James.
As far as groups that could help...Twi had many claim to be *delivered* from homosexuality and lesbianism....thing is most (all that I knew) returned to this lifestyle after a while...
Most folks, it would seem, just learned to hide it well (even from themselves) ...so even groups that claim to *deliver* from this ... appear to have only temporary results.
I am not at all convinced of your assertion that lesbianism = sin = physical sickness = need for deliverance.....
Aproaching it and her from that point of view would be a serious misrepresentation of God ... and could quite concievably create a HUGE stumbling block...effectively forever alienating her from the love of God.
Your responsibility is to give a fair and accurate representation of God and his love for her....the deliverance is between those two.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
Galen:
I do apologize one and all, if I have stepped on anyone's toes or set a stumbling block before you.
"I do beleive that homosexual and lesbian activity is a sin."
"I also beleive that we are all born in sin, and live in sin."
I do beleive that: "We are in fact all sinners"
"G-d's Word delivers. Nothing else really does. Study His Word, Share it, and love her. Pray for her and pray with her. If she wants to pray about her sexual tendency than fine, I would try to be a friend, I would try to be understanding and non-judgemental. When she and her Heavenly Father are ready to remove those drives from her, then it will happen."
"I have known and ministered to a number of homosexuals and a couple lesbians, I have also served killers and rapists. No doubt had I spent more of my adult life in the presence of females, I would have known more lesbians."
The above I do mean in all sincerity.
I am also 'drawn' towards females. I made a figurative comparison between myself and lesbians in that manner, I thought was humour, perhaps it was not appropriate. Sorry.
:-)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jardinero
From Danny:
Can I get an "AMEN!" from the mid-life singles corner? lol
J.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Second James
I get what you're saying Satori, as my initial post does reflect alot of my past TWI mindset..I DO BELIEVE that God designed people in certain ways for our benefit..I don't believe that woman was designed for woman..nor man for man. Otherwise we'd see encouraging words in God's word about that being desired by God..instead we see words like "abomination" etc.
So yeh...guilty as charged I suppose...hers has been a miserable life (according to her words)..lack of any kind of long term relationships and much more..
I live in the good ole US of A & can believe what I want to believe. I believe the lesbianism is detremental to her..she speaks of the time when she "fell" for the bait & tried it out & then continued in it.
I am not to judge..but dammit, its what I think & there's a time when my eternal judge will straighten me out, if I'm wrong..in the mean time here's this gal FINALLY seeking something other than what she was caught up in. I'm sorry folks..I just see it with my way blinders on I guess, or Bible Blinders on...sorry Rascal...sorry Satori
My hope at this point is to see her reconsiled with her creator & her savior..sorry I started this thread & sorry I asked for advise..dumb me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
Rascal--
I knew two homosexual men during my Way years. One never did get delivered, but he pretended. He had a fantasy that if he only met the perfect woman, he would get delivered...it never happened. He left during the early nineties and lives a gay life style now.
The other got delivered and married a good friend of mine. She was tall, broad shouldered, slim hipped, small chest--what you might call a boyish, athletic figure. They left TWI in 89, several years later he confessed he was never really delivered, but he had bi tendencies and he found her attractive, loved her. They are still together,have a bunch of kids, but it is not the marriage she thought she would have, nor is their sex life that great( very infrequent).
I know that it would be just about impossible for me to change my orientation and find women sexually attractive--but since I'm hetero, there is no pressure put on me too change. I can find women admirable, lovely...but that is not the same as physical attraction. No tinglies.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kit Sober
The kindness of Christ is the nicest healing agent I have found.
It goes into the fiber of a person, and the Lord can use it to heal all kinds of things.
In my unprofessional and experience-only knowledge, the Lord, knowing the person intimately, is more able by our kindness to heal from the inside out.
Hopefully praying with you,
Kit
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brother Speed
I won't appologize for being fond of the fairer sex.
I won't appologize for loving my wife the way that I do.
I won't appologize for having a sense of humor.
Good day, people.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
Nobody asked anyone to apologize, Brother Speed. My comments were aimed at Galen and coolchef, anyway. I hadn't even previously noticed your comment. Although it got more words from me, Galen's attempt at humor wasn't the main problem. It was the seemingly obigatory inclusion of murder and rape in many Christians' comments about the purported sinfulness of homosexuality.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
I hope you're honest with her Second James.
We often weren't honest with all the stuff people would have to do to become'0kay' back in the Way witnessing days.
I know I would think twice about baring my soul and opening my life to someone who felt I was an abombination, and that I must change something few if any people seem to be able to really change,in order to please their god and to be right with them. Not a friendship I would want.
Lack of long term relationships is not necessarily a lesbian/homosexual affliction, nor can you promise her that becoming hetero will bring a long term love relationship into her life. Plenty of hetero Christians can't find or keep one, either.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Allan
I think 2 James was telling the truth about her saying how she 'took the bait'. The homos' I have known (and still do) pretty much all tell the same thing..often it was an older homo that seduced them, some of them even mentioned in their first sexual act being 'overcome' by some sort of 'spiritual feeling' to the point they nearly passed out.
When I shared with one of them about the possibility of it being a demon a light went on in their head..that particular person is still 'genuinely delivered' today.
This man told me that at one point in the middle of all this when he was home alone one night,a demon he couldn't see actually 'physically' tried to rape him,freaked him right out !!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
Well, if the girl wants help, like someone mentioned, maybe you Allen, share God's Word with her, line out the details of God's opinion of it, as well as God's forgiveness. Maybe share with her the place where Jesus forgave the woman who was caught in the act of adultry, and kept the religious maniacs from stoning her, and then said, "neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more..."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
I don't believe crap like this anymore. TWI was way too obsessed with devil spirits. I don't think they watch us all the time so they can try to trip us up. We can trip our own selves up easy enough because we weren't born perfect.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.