thank you Belle, I did not want to speak out of turn...........or of speculation
Allan I was serious, not joking, about your need for help...I don't hate, and I don't hate you. I accept all for who they are. Hatred to any extreme is unhealthy. May God enlighten the eyes of your understanding.
This weekend I dropped my daughter off to her new home in Chicago. I had never been there. I LOVED IT. Allan you may want to cover your eyes or ears at his point. I marched in a gay pride parade. About two blocks from where she lives is an area known as Boy's Town. A very professional college area of Chicago, (remember Craiggers was all for college for our kids) of course, as long as we didn't go into debt or become homosexuals. I am thinking our ABS might have paid for Leah's college (with all due respect Leah, you can't help what parents you are born too - no judgement on you).
I did not march for all their beliefs. As a matter of fact, they spewed lude and venomous hate toward our President, and they were vulgar about it. I don't understand the gay folks spewing hate when that is what they were protesting against in the first place. They were bashing George Bush and Pat Robertson with vulgar and disgusting comments. Not all were like that though, they were in support of AIDS and I thought one of the best signs was "Marriage is for humans, not just heterosexuals"or something like that. I marched because all people deserve "equal rights" and "freedom of speech", whether I agreed with their agenda or not. I did ask one of the "organizers" who came up to me how can they justify their obnoxious and beligerant hatefilled behavior, when that is what they were protesting about. Hatred and gay bashing. I marched because I understand on a personal level the discrimination.
I know Allan that you will interject your religious dogma toward all this, but after this weekend, your judgement means nothing to me. There is such a higher level of thinking and intelligence that you could ever see. It transcends the outside, and directs itself to people's hearts. I don't really expect you to understand that, you are still in the "God of the Way Box".
Non-judgement transcends all - that is what I learned this weekend.
I was serious when I spoke of your homophobia Allan. I do not understand how your homophobia has any healthy outcome, except to make you feel superior to others. If that is what you need, man, Godspeed, I hope you can achieve that. If you need to feel better than others, Go for it Man!
Homophobia is the insecurity of beng heterosexual....
Hmmm. Not sure if I agree with that, but I could if a definition of *homophobia* was trotted out for examination.
Some have accused me of being homophobic, merely because I have opinions on the subject.
I see the two words *homo* and *phobia* in that word, and that to me indicates a fear of.
I have no fear of homosexuals, and altho I have certain opinions on the subject, that doesn't mean I am trashing them nor does it mean I am insecure with being a red-blooded male who is heterosexual.
My sister is a lesbian, who organized a big *gay pride* event in Bloomington, Indiana. I wasn't there when it happened, but had I been, I would not have gone. I support my sister and we've talked about this stuff, and believe it or not she is comfortable with the fact that I choose not to attend things like this.
She is quite volitale also when it comes to *gay rights*, the current condition of the country, and the current leadership we are all now under. She talks a lot about injustice, and is also more than willing to engage in *willing and hateful* behavior towards any and all who disagree.
However --- she and I had a talk, and she understands that I do not come from her perspective, and that for someone like myself to stay away from gatherings like this is a good thing and not judgemental in any way, since it is my thoughts that I am expressing/following --- just as they are doing.
So --- no. I have no homophobia, or insecurity, even though I have my own opinions. :)
the homophobia statement was just a kind of tongue in cheek.....i didn't really mean it as a definition....just kind of a joke...
my daughter didn't even go....I went to kind of see what those marches and stuff were all about....we are not all up in your face kind of folks.....she doesn't like that type of thing..... :)
I think Gayism is wrong. I knew this before I took PFAl. It didnt take God to open my eyes to the hurt and wrongs in life..He just explained why!!!!!! thats why I was attracted to his word and The Way.....It set a balance and order to my life. Sure, we dont know all things..we never will. I do believe when one sways away to far it will take someone with deep concern to help them.....
So more power to you..if you can help her, go for it....be careful not to get pulled down.
No..this is my last reply on the matter Outofdafog..so typical of you to 'label' people and then to 'backtrack' when people disagree with you.."oh..it..was..ONLY a ..kind of a joke..KIND of..tongue in cheek."
I don't think anyones views on things like homosexuality(either for or against) is really a joking matter.
And come on..you went for the same reason Mstar goes, to have a 'peep' !!
Allan - first of all I wasn't even talking to you - I was replying to dmiller or anyone who might take offense at that statement. If you noticed it was on a separate post, an afterthought, a tongue in cheek bumper sticker type saying. So no back tracking there. In addition I could care less if I offended you, but I do care about the other posters who might honestly disagree with homosexuality, but don't feel it is their mission in life to wipe them off the face of the earth. As far as my mothering skills go, I am just a screen name on a page to you, so how would you know? And now I am a peeping tom too, because my daughter is gay and I want to figure out their agenda......
One can only hope and pray that that was your final reply on the subject......
NEW YORK — Houston Comets (search) forward Sheryl Swoopes (search) is opening up about being a lesbian, telling a magazine that she's "tired of having to hide my feelings about the person I care about."
Swoopes, honored last month as the WNBA's Most Valuable Player, told ESPN The Magazine for a story on newsstands Wednesday that she didn't always know she was gay and fears that coming out could jeopardize her status as a role model.
"Do I think I was born this way? No," Swoopes said. "And that's probably confusing to some, because I know a lot of people believe that you are."
Swoopes, who was married and has an 8-year-old son, said her 1999 divorce "wasn't because I'm gay."
She said her reason for coming out now is merely because she wants to be honest.
"It's not something that I want to throw in people's faces. I'm just at a point in my life where I'm tired of having to pretend to be somebody I'm not," the 34-year-old Swoopes said. "I'm tired of having to hide my feelings about the person I care about. About the person I love."
A release from ESPN The Magazine about the story did not disclose the identity of Swoopes' partner.
Exactly..somewhere she opened up her mind to this perversion, lowering her standards and dignity, which is one of the main aims of hardcore pornography etc..
So what does her denial about being 'born that way' do about all those who say they were? One 'testimony' nagates all the others? Plus she also confuses her testimony of 'not being born that way' by saying "I'm just at a point in my life where I'm tired of having to pretend to be somebody I'm not." which kinda indicates that maybe she's not sure, ya think?
In any event, be anybody gay/lesbian or not, ... what's it really to you? Or to people like Allan, who faithfully shows us his interpretation of 'the love of God' by the spewage in his latest post.
Got a clue for ya, Allan. We all left that crap when we split from TWI. I don't think we don't need it here, thank you very much.
Being gay /lesbian/bisexual can cause a great deal of confusion in a person's life while they are figuring it out. I don't think that is so hard to understand! Well, at least not too hard if you have some empathy and compassion.
I don't know the lady, but if she says she wasn't born gay, I think we should take her word for it. It's somewhat arrogant of us to determine the she was gay all along, she just didn't know it. And it is possible that working in a profession where lesbians are more inclined to find themselves comfortable might make a heterosexual woman more likely to begin thinking and then acting differently. It might be completely unrelated to her profession, but the way I interpret her statements, she was a heterosexual woman and had been all her life, and, at some point, she fell in love with another woman. She tried to hide it, and eventually decided she was tired of doing so. Anyone who's ever fallen in love knows it's not the kind of thing that is easily hidden.
If she was already divorced, it would be natural to want to enjoy her new relationship openly. If she was married at the time, the stress of having a clandestine affair would just be exacerbated by the fact the the affair was with another woman, perhaps a teammate. So Bramble's implication that she was a lesbian all along isn't necessarily sound, according to what Shery said.
I'm not saying the WNBA made her a lesbian. In fact, if you will look at the post, you will see that I offered no interpretation whatsoever. I simply let Sheryl speak for herself. The fact that what she says contradicts the gay rights dogma isn't my fault. But it's not just "one testimony" as Garth would like to think. Anne Heche's experience is similar. And I know of a relative who had a similar experience. The point is, there is evidence to indicate that homosexuality is not necessarily something your'e born with.
I'm not saying anything about the morality or immorality of Ms Swoopes statements. I just think we should take them at face value instead of trying to deny that these midlife 'conversions' happen.
More and more I am beginning to feel the discrimination my daughter must feel.
There is a girl at high school who is crazy about my daughter. A couple weeks ago, the girl started calling our house. She lives a few blocks away and invited my daughter over. My daughter went over a couple of nights. The girl had told her mother that my daughter was gay. From then on the mother and daughter began to fight. Mother told her daughter that she couldn't hang out with my daughter anymore because it might damage her reputation. My child came home and told me all about this.
The girl continued to call our house and say that my daughter could come over while her parents were not home, but I absolutely was against that. Whether I agreed or not with the other mother's view point, I was not going to let my child put herself into a bad situation where the mother could come home (and being in total denial) would somehow find a reasonable way to justify blaming this on my child. You who are parents can understand this.
To make a long story short, my daughter doesn't like that girl in that way (which kinda shoots the theory, that all gay people want is sex, right to hell). The girl continues to pursue her. And this is not an ugly fat gal, she's quite pretty. Very feminine.
Today at school the girl wrote a note which some of her friends interpreted as her going to commit suicide because of my daughter. They went to the counselor at school and the next thing you know, my daughter was being pulled out of class. This girl was crying in the counselors office over my daughter not liking her. My daughter had to sit there and feel like she had to justify why she didn't like her and began to feel like this was all her fault. She came home and told me all about it. Of course (unbeknownst) to her I called the counselor and let her know, that hey this girl was pursuing my child and that if the mother of the other girl should find out, she will somehow justify it being my daughter's fault. This is how bigoted people think.
The moral of the story........the counselor told me that she thought it was great that my daughter came home and talked to me about all this. I told her that my child could talk to me about anything, because it isn't all about me, it is about her. I just wanted to let the counselor know, hey this girl is pursuing my child and somehow the mother would find a way to blame this on my child.
I feel sorry for the young girl, thinking that she must not have anyone to talk to about her feelings and the confusion she must be feeling now. I am thinking the whole thing with the counselor was for attention, the attention she lacks at home, because her mother feels the need to pretend that her daughter does not have some gender confusion. I get the feeling that the whole atmosphere at this other girl's house is, THIS IS THE WAY IT IS, anything else won't be tolerated. My heart goes out to this child. How lonely she must feel right now.
Allan, please don't respond with your self righteous bull crap. Not responding at all would be preferable. I guess if you feel you must, at least know that I am not going to let you goad me into your "what kind of mother must I be". I would much rather love my child with unconditional love, than be the kind of parent that my child doesn't feel she could talk to. Throw your fiery darts if you must.
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outofdafog
thank you Belle, I did not want to speak out of turn...........or of speculation
Allan I was serious, not joking, about your need for help...I don't hate, and I don't hate you. I accept all for who they are. Hatred to any extreme is unhealthy. May God enlighten the eyes of your understanding.
This weekend I dropped my daughter off to her new home in Chicago. I had never been there. I LOVED IT. Allan you may want to cover your eyes or ears at his point. I marched in a gay pride parade. About two blocks from where she lives is an area known as Boy's Town. A very professional college area of Chicago, (remember Craiggers was all for college for our kids) of course, as long as we didn't go into debt or become homosexuals. I am thinking our ABS might have paid for Leah's college (with all due respect Leah, you can't help what parents you are born too - no judgement on you).
I did not march for all their beliefs. As a matter of fact, they spewed lude and venomous hate toward our President, and they were vulgar about it. I don't understand the gay folks spewing hate when that is what they were protesting against in the first place. They were bashing George Bush and Pat Robertson with vulgar and disgusting comments. Not all were like that though, they were in support of AIDS and I thought one of the best signs was "Marriage is for humans, not just heterosexuals"or something like that. I marched because all people deserve "equal rights" and "freedom of speech", whether I agreed with their agenda or not. I did ask one of the "organizers" who came up to me how can they justify their obnoxious and beligerant hatefilled behavior, when that is what they were protesting about. Hatred and gay bashing. I marched because I understand on a personal level the discrimination.
I know Allan that you will interject your religious dogma toward all this, but after this weekend, your judgement means nothing to me. There is such a higher level of thinking and intelligence that you could ever see. It transcends the outside, and directs itself to people's hearts. I don't really expect you to understand that, you are still in the "God of the Way Box".
Non-judgement transcends all - that is what I learned this weekend.
I was serious when I spoke of your homophobia Allan. I do not understand how your homophobia has any healthy outcome, except to make you feel superior to others. If that is what you need, man, Godspeed, I hope you can achieve that. If you need to feel better than others, Go for it Man!
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outofdafog
Homophobia is the insecurity of beng heterosexual....
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dmiller
Hmmm. Not sure if I agree with that, but I could if a definition of *homophobia* was trotted out for examination.
Some have accused me of being homophobic, merely because I have opinions on the subject.
I see the two words *homo* and *phobia* in that word, and that to me indicates a fear of.
I have no fear of homosexuals, and altho I have certain opinions on the subject, that doesn't mean I am trashing them nor does it mean I am insecure with being a red-blooded male who is heterosexual.
My sister is a lesbian, who organized a big *gay pride* event in Bloomington, Indiana. I wasn't there when it happened, but had I been, I would not have gone. I support my sister and we've talked about this stuff, and believe it or not she is comfortable with the fact that I choose not to attend things like this.
She is quite volitale also when it comes to *gay rights*, the current condition of the country, and the current leadership we are all now under. She talks a lot about injustice, and is also more than willing to engage in *willing and hateful* behavior towards any and all who disagree.
However --- she and I had a talk, and she understands that I do not come from her perspective, and that for someone like myself to stay away from gatherings like this is a good thing and not judgemental in any way, since it is my thoughts that I am expressing/following --- just as they are doing.
So --- no. I have no homophobia, or insecurity, even though I have my own opinions. :)
David
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dmiller
I consider this a cliche, not a definition. :)
David
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Allan
and 'foolishness' is a mother trying to justify her daughters 'perversion'.
I think it's healthy enough to 'agree to disagree.'
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Brother Speed
undt der's a healthy vey to agree to disagree.
undt der's a healthy vey to agree to disagree.
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karmicdebt
"and 'foolishness' is a mother trying to justify her daughters 'perversion'.
I think it's healthy enough to 'agree to disagree."
You have to get in one last jab before you take your "high road", don't ya?
Do you think it's healthy spending so much of your time on a thread of perversion?
I bet sex with your wife has never been better....
Poor, sad, cruel little man....
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Oakspear
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outofdafog
the homophobia statement was just a kind of tongue in cheek.....i didn't really mean it as a definition....just kind of a joke...
my daughter didn't even go....I went to kind of see what those marches and stuff were all about....we are not all up in your face kind of folks.....she doesn't like that type of thing..... :)
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likeaneagle
I think Gayism is wrong. I knew this before I took PFAl. It didnt take God to open my eyes to the hurt and wrongs in life..He just explained why!!!!!! thats why I was attracted to his word and The Way.....It set a balance and order to my life. Sure, we dont know all things..we never will. I do believe when one sways away to far it will take someone with deep concern to help them.....
So more power to you..if you can help her, go for it....be careful not to get pulled down.
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Allan
No..this is my last reply on the matter Outofdafog..so typical of you to 'label' people and then to 'backtrack' when people disagree with you.."oh..it..was..ONLY a ..kind of a joke..KIND of..tongue in cheek."
I don't think anyones views on things like homosexuality(either for or against) is really a joking matter.
And come on..you went for the same reason Mstar goes, to have a 'peep' !!
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karmicdebt
Funny, I knew it was tongue in cheek...
Maybe it is because I am secure in my heterosexuality...
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outofdafog
Allan - first of all I wasn't even talking to you - I was replying to dmiller or anyone who might take offense at that statement. If you noticed it was on a separate post, an afterthought, a tongue in cheek bumper sticker type saying. So no back tracking there. In addition I could care less if I offended you, but I do care about the other posters who might honestly disagree with homosexuality, but don't feel it is their mission in life to wipe them off the face of the earth. As far as my mothering skills go, I am just a screen name on a page to you, so how would you know? And now I am a peeping tom too, because my daughter is gay and I want to figure out their agenda......
One can only hope and pray that that was your final reply on the subject......
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likeaneagle
Love the heck out that girl.......Outadafog
It will never fail..you
or her!
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outofdafog
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dmiller
Shucks -- it didn't offend me one bit!! :P
David
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Jbarrax
This just in...
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Allan
Exactly..somewhere she opened up her mind to this perversion, lowering her standards and dignity, which is one of the main aims of hardcore pornography etc..
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GarthP2000
Jerry,
So what does her denial about being 'born that way' do about all those who say they were? One 'testimony' nagates all the others? Plus she also confuses her testimony of 'not being born that way' by saying "I'm just at a point in my life where I'm tired of having to pretend to be somebody I'm not." which kinda indicates that maybe she's not sure, ya think?
In any event, be anybody gay/lesbian or not, ... what's it really to you? Or to people like Allan, who faithfully shows us his interpretation of 'the love of God' by the spewage in his latest post.
Got a clue for ya, Allan. We all left that crap when we split from TWI.
I don't think we don't need it here, thank you very much.
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Bramble
Being gay /lesbian/bisexual can cause a great deal of confusion in a person's life while they are figuring it out. I don't think that is so hard to understand! Well, at least not too hard if you have some empathy and compassion.
As for Allan--the ignore feature is super duper!
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excathedra
allan just say a prayer to god unless you're god
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Jbarrax
I don't know the lady, but if she says she wasn't born gay, I think we should take her word for it. It's somewhat arrogant of us to determine the she was gay all along, she just didn't know it. And it is possible that working in a profession where lesbians are more inclined to find themselves comfortable might make a heterosexual woman more likely to begin thinking and then acting differently. It might be completely unrelated to her profession, but the way I interpret her statements, she was a heterosexual woman and had been all her life, and, at some point, she fell in love with another woman. She tried to hide it, and eventually decided she was tired of doing so. Anyone who's ever fallen in love knows it's not the kind of thing that is easily hidden.
If she was already divorced, it would be natural to want to enjoy her new relationship openly. If she was married at the time, the stress of having a clandestine affair would just be exacerbated by the fact the the affair was with another woman, perhaps a teammate. So Bramble's implication that she was a lesbian all along isn't necessarily sound, according to what Shery said.
I'm not saying the WNBA made her a lesbian. In fact, if you will look at the post, you will see that I offered no interpretation whatsoever. I simply let Sheryl speak for herself. The fact that what she says contradicts the gay rights dogma isn't my fault. But it's not just "one testimony" as Garth would like to think. Anne Heche's experience is similar. And I know of a relative who had a similar experience. The point is, there is evidence to indicate that homosexuality is not necessarily something your'e born with.
I'm not saying anything about the morality or immorality of Ms Swoopes statements. I just think we should take them at face value instead of trying to deny that these midlife 'conversions' happen.
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outofdafog
More and more I am beginning to feel the discrimination my daughter must feel.
There is a girl at high school who is crazy about my daughter. A couple weeks ago, the girl started calling our house. She lives a few blocks away and invited my daughter over. My daughter went over a couple of nights. The girl had told her mother that my daughter was gay. From then on the mother and daughter began to fight. Mother told her daughter that she couldn't hang out with my daughter anymore because it might damage her reputation. My child came home and told me all about this.
The girl continued to call our house and say that my daughter could come over while her parents were not home, but I absolutely was against that. Whether I agreed or not with the other mother's view point, I was not going to let my child put herself into a bad situation where the mother could come home (and being in total denial) would somehow find a reasonable way to justify blaming this on my child. You who are parents can understand this.
To make a long story short, my daughter doesn't like that girl in that way (which kinda shoots the theory, that all gay people want is sex, right to hell). The girl continues to pursue her. And this is not an ugly fat gal, she's quite pretty. Very feminine.
Today at school the girl wrote a note which some of her friends interpreted as her going to commit suicide because of my daughter. They went to the counselor at school and the next thing you know, my daughter was being pulled out of class. This girl was crying in the counselors office over my daughter not liking her. My daughter had to sit there and feel like she had to justify why she didn't like her and began to feel like this was all her fault. She came home and told me all about it. Of course (unbeknownst) to her I called the counselor and let her know, that hey this girl was pursuing my child and that if the mother of the other girl should find out, she will somehow justify it being my daughter's fault. This is how bigoted people think.
The moral of the story........the counselor told me that she thought it was great that my daughter came home and talked to me about all this. I told her that my child could talk to me about anything, because it isn't all about me, it is about her. I just wanted to let the counselor know, hey this girl is pursuing my child and somehow the mother would find a way to blame this on my child.
I feel sorry for the young girl, thinking that she must not have anyone to talk to about her feelings and the confusion she must be feeling now. I am thinking the whole thing with the counselor was for attention, the attention she lacks at home, because her mother feels the need to pretend that her daughter does not have some gender confusion. I get the feeling that the whole atmosphere at this other girl's house is, THIS IS THE WAY IT IS, anything else won't be tolerated. My heart goes out to this child. How lonely she must feel right now.
Allan, please don't respond with your self righteous bull crap. Not responding at all would be preferable. I guess if you feel you must, at least know that I am not going to let you goad me into your "what kind of mother must I be". I would much rather love my child with unconditional love, than be the kind of parent that my child doesn't feel she could talk to. Throw your fiery darts if you must.
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excathedra
oh i haven't read any of that and i wasn't arguing the point of birth or environment
i just say what the hell do we know about anything
oh yeah you some folks have bibles -- i used to and it got me real far in life and "DELIVERED" snort
foggie, i didn't see your post until after mine
man, that sucks. i'm sorry
you are one beautiful human being. thank god for your daughter's sake and for everyone's sake who you come across in life
i really admire you. i would say i love you but then i would sound like a wayfer or a lesbian
******
this is my third post
*******
sorry for the confusion
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